By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 11:52 am:

This is prompted by an article in Sunday's New York Times about the Black Panthers. The role of "white" rock in the counter/culture movement of the '60's and early '70's is well established and reported, and the MC5's association with the White Panther Party is legendary.
Was there ever as direct a relationship between soul and the Black Power movement of the late '60's? There are, of course, the obvious references like Gil-Scott Heron, the Two Poets, James Brown's "Say It Loud.." and the like, but did the soul music community embrace the movement the same political way the "progressive" rockers did with their audience?
Thank you in advance.
Gawd, what a clumsy way to word a question......

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:07 pm:

DOUG: I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE TUNE "YANKEE DOODLE DANDY" WAS THE BEST ONE TO EMERGE FROM THE REVOLUTION!!!...OH...NOT *THAT* REVOLUTION!!!...AS FOR THE "REVOLUTION" YOU SPEAK OF...I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT "BLACK PANTHERS" AND THE LIKE...WERE MORE INTERESTED IN POLITICS THAN MUSIC!!!...THAT BEING SAID...CERTAIN ENTITIES...LIKE "THE LAST POETS" FOR EXAMPLE...SPOKE...FROM AN ARTISTIC SENSE...FOR THE RADICAL POLITICS OF THAT DAY!!!...MOST OF THE "SOUL" MUSIC ACTS BACK THEN...WERE PROBABLY SEEN AS "SELLOUTS" BY THE RADICAL POLITICAL COMMUNITY...THUS...MANY OF THE ACTS FEARED CAREER REPRECUSSIONS HAD THEY THROWN THEIR MUSICAL HATS INTO THE REVOLUTIONARY RING!!!...THE MILDER CIVIL RIGHTS MUSICAL GENRE...HOWEVER...DID PRODUCE SOME OUTSTANDING MATERIAL...FROM SAM COOKE TO CURTIS MAYFIELD!!!...STUBASS

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:23 pm:

Hi Douglas, I know what you're getting at and
probably the answer is no - at least where major
acts were acts.

I never could quite take the Temps singing
"America, I still love you, in spite of your
troubles and woes, you are still the greatest
of them all .." - it's not exactly "Tear Down
The Walls, Motherf****ers!" is it ?

Even something like "Message From A Black Man"
- the history of that particular track would be
interesting. It looks from the dates given in
the Temps' box set that recording started in
'68 before the release of "Cloud Nine" but
the track itself wasn't completed until '69,
missing the "Cloud Nine" album ands surefacing on the follow up "Puzzle People".

I'll check the precise dates later and do a fuller post then.

The Two Poets - I take it you mean the Last Poets ? That record would NEVER have been released
by a major - the original issue was on Douglas
a tiny indie run by jazz producer Larry Douglas
(the same guy who was controlling the Jimi Hendrix
catalogue for years).

Davie

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:37 pm:

I HATE LABELS....but I gotta use some, otherwise I'm not sure how to phrase my question......

Stu...
...I'll grant your point, in that by the late '60's, mainstream soul had been accepted into the "white" music world. But James Brown, who was still at that point mostly a "black" artist, did "Say It Loud....", directed at the "black" community.
In the "white" revolution, music and politics were intertwined, but this was to a mostly young audience--18 to 25. Is it fair to say that soul, even that directed at the "black" audience appealed to a more wide ranging age demographic and couldn't focus on one narrow group?
Bear in mind I don't want to dismiss the impact of songs like "We're a Winner", "What's Going On", and the like, and remember, I'm coming at this whole thing from a vanilla point of reference......

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:51 pm:

Davie....
....Thanks, I read your post after I reposted.
Yes, I meant the Last Poets. The thought of working at a convenience store in a tourist area on Memorial Day must have addled my brain.
Your point is well taken, in that Heron was recorded by Bob Theile's with Flying Dutchman. Does that in a way reinforce my question above?

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

FIRST OF ALL...HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY DOUG AND ALL!!!...AS FOR "SOUL BRO # 1..."THE HARDEST WORKING MAN IN SHOW BIZ"...CAN YOU SAY "ANOMALY"???...THAT...COMBINED WITH THE FACT THAT "SAY IT LOUD" DIDN'T CALL FOR ANY TYPE OF ARMED REVOLUTION OR THE LIKE...SIMPLY JB'S ATTEMPT AT INSTILLING "BLACK PRIDE" INTO THE MASSES (AND SEEING THE DOLLAR OR TWO TO BE MADE)!!!...BESIDES...I NEVER TOOK JAMES BROWN AS SERIOUSLY (FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE) AS LETS SAY A CURTIS MAYFIELD OR MARVIN GAYE!!!...YOUR POINT ABOUT THE WIDE AGE GAP IN "SOUL MUSIC" AT THAT TIME ALSO RINGS TRUE...IN THAT OLDER AFRICAN- AMERICANS OF THAT DAY WERE MUCH MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN THE COLLEGE AGED BLACKS...AND REMEMBER...THE TEMPTATIONS WERE CALLED TO THE WHITE HOUSE...AND PROUDLY ACCEPTED...TO PERFORM FOR THE DAUGHTERS AND FRIENDS OF ONE RICHARD M NIXON!!!...STUBASS

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 02:12 pm:

Not that it matters but I pretty much remember it the same way the STU Angel Man does.

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

Soul Sister....
....actually your input does matter. Thank you for confirming Stu's analysis. Music and "revolutionary" thought have generally gone hand in hand, and I've oft wondered why not in this case.
Thank you for your answers.

doug