By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 12:22 am:

I'D THINK THAT WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT DURING THE DECADE OF THE 60'S... DETROIT, MICHIGAN WAS THE SOUL MUSIC CAPITAL OF THE WORLD (HENCE...SOULFUL DETROIT.COM)...WITH MEMPHIS...PHILLY...LOS ANGELES...AND NEW YORK PLAYING THE PART OF "SECOND CITY'S"!!!...NOW...IF I CAN MAKE IT THROUGH *THAT* STATEMENT WITHOUT A MAJOR UPRISING...MY QUESTION WOULD BE...WHAT CITY TODAY IS "GROUND ZERO" FOR THE EVOLUTION OF WHAT WE KNEW THEN AS "SOUL MUSIC"!!!...FIRST THOUGHT WOULD BE LOS ANGELES...EVER SINCE MOTOWN MIGRATED WEST TO JOIN THE LIKES OF SOLAR RECORDS...A&M...AND OTHERS...SINCE L.A. IS THE ENTERTAINMENT CAPITAL OF THE WORLD ANYWAYS!!!...WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF "LIBRA RECORDS" (LIKE THAT PLUG KEVGO)...WHERE SHOULD AN ASPIRING "SOUL" (URBAN) ARTIST OF TODAY SETTLE...FOR THE BEST OPPORTUNITY OF BEING DISCOVERED AND HAVING THE MOST COMPETENT MUSICIANS...PRODUCERS...ENGINEERS...AND MANAGEMENT FOR THE GREATEST CHANCE OF SUCCESS IN A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE???...ANY TAKES???...STUBASS

By Kegtapper (67.74.232.125) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 12:47 am:

Hmmm STUBASS you always ask the tough questions...

It's almost goes without saying the face of soul music has spread-out about as much as Blacks have migrated. Almost like we are leaderless. No longer those few companies where you couldn't wait till the record shop got they delivery. I remember when ONLY Detroit and Chicago (CHESS/KING) was in the ballgame.

Coming up in the cusp of Soul Music (Mich. City, IN) between Chicago and visiting grandma in Detroit I alway got to hear what was fresh...

As a teen I used to love the sounds of Philly, Muscle Shoals Horns, Memphis, and Atlanta as things got produced in different areas. Then came the clueless Disco years. Fortunatly I was in EUR most of it.
-----------------------------------------
Here's something for you guys to envy on. An elderly lady said I can have all her 'kids' Motown LP's and 45's from the 60's & 70's if I want them. Taking a truck over just in case....LOL

EC Mayo

By RD (63.188.33.123) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 01:57 am:

Cleveland, Ohio, home of the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame is the capital of soul music in America. There's a rich history here, one day I'll tell it.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 02:26 am:

KEGTAPPER: GET THOSE RECORDS!!!...MEL... FOR ONE...WILL BE EXTREMELY JEALOUS!!!...RD: THATS WHAT THIS THREAD WAS INTENDED FOR!!!...MAKE YOUR CASE FOR THE "CITY BY THE LAKE"!!!...STUBASS

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.6) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 05:43 am:

Stu,
you can read me like a book.
oooooh'an'
by the way Kegtapper ol'mate,
if you find any......................
only joking(not)hee,hee.
Mel(pacing up and down)

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 06:44 am:

Thats a a tough question.
The genre has spread far and wide.
Sadly, there is no decent soul" music out there but Philly still cranks it out with the neo-soul thing although in my book it is not soul.
There are some great veteran soulful singers out there and my fave is Ali Woodson.

Most of the new crop sing with over the top melissma which is just plain un needed .
Once I heard someone put TWELVE sylables in the word "oh"

Yolanda Adams who I love, gets carried away sometimes.
Anyway, im out.

By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 07:41 am:

Amen, Bobby. Only recently I found out that the sound that reminds me of fingernails on a chalkboard has a name -- melissma.

I try to open my mind and find something good there, but so far ... unsuccessful.

About the only singer who can get away with that on my CD player is Yolanda Adams. And like you, I agree she can get carried away.

By medua9e (66.73.6.225) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 09:04 am:

Is it REALLY any Soul Music left Anywhere???
The best place 4 me 2 find Soul Music,is at the SoulfulDetroit Events or Record Shops that still sell the old Soul Music sounds. Sad 2 Say..when there is Soul &/or Soul Styled acts, they don't get any or not much airplay. Maybe we should get our own Soul & Soul Styled stuff going' again, (wouldn't that B something)??? Afterall. it's our age group that put Rock & Roll, R&B/Soul Music on the map N the first place...Maybe we need 2 get Re-Funked and Funked up like the Funk Bros. WOW! I do have an heck of an Imagination don't I ??? LOL..

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 09:34 am:

STUBASS;I'd have to say those you mentioned should all be on equal ground. Yes Motown pumped out alot of hits & great music at the time but (AND I too Hope I don't start an uprising here) alot of motown songs were borderline pop more so than the deeper soul sounds the other cities were putting out, commercial & crossover, yes, but deeper no not all of it on Motown. As for #1-one of the number 1's of course, but don't forget New York was earlier on the map as far as record companies that were established and putting out R&B and Soul Music ( when I say N.Y. that includes N.J. too.) New York also had the most venues where you could go to see live perfomances
numerous theaters such as Apollo, Brooklyn Fox, Paramount, & Albee to name a few and numerous clubs throughout the area. If I might add to your list as a 3rd. string I'd put N.J., D.C. & Cleveland. Lots of great soul sounds came out of those cities too! But its all good !!!!!!!
KEGTAPPER; All I can say is I'm jealous!
RD; I agree that Cleveland put out lots of great artists in both R&B/Soul and Jazz from very early on. We live by the lake and sorry to say with the exception of the Rock Hall and a few arenas putting on occasional shows the city by itself is dead.
BOBBY; I agree with what you said and would add to that STU I don't think there is any real R&B or Soul Music today with todays generation, to hear something good for the most part we have to depend on the Oldies Shows for the one and only Classic R&B. If I have to name a city for todays stuff I'd say N.Y. & L.A. Yesteryear was definately Detroit, Chicago, Memphis, Cleveland, Philadelphia, N.J. & N.Y. Good Thoughts For Everyone, S.S.

By medusa9e (66.73.9.231) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 09:41 am:

N this world of over rated pleasures and under rated treasures..I'm so glad there R people like U and SoulfulDetroit Forum...

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 09:52 am:

REMEMBER ALL!!!...IT'S YOUR KID!!!...LOTS OF TALENT!!!...YOU CAN'T CONVINCE HIM OR HER TO REMAIN IN COLLEGE...AND THE KID HAS TO LEAVE MOOSBREATH, MINNESOTA (NOT A BIG "URBAN/SOUL SHOWCASE SCENE THERE) TO BREAK INTO THE BUSINESS!!!...WHERE DO YOU ADVISE HIM/HER TO GO FOR THE BEST CHANCE OF SUCCESS AND RECOGNITION (IF YOU DON'T BREAK A LIMB OR TWO FOR THE DROPPING OUT OF COLLEGE)???...HOPE THAT CLARIFIES!!!...STUBASS

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:18 am:

Okay! They go bi-coastal: New York & Los Angelos !!

By RD (63.188.33.105) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:22 am:

Naw Soul Sister, Cleveland is no Chicago but it's far from dead. The Flats area, Playhouse Square, the major sports franchises, the museums, etc. rate with the best in the nation. Cleveland has all the ambiances of a Top 10 City without Top City problems because it once was a Top 10 city and the infracsture still exists. Our public transportation for instance is one of the best systems in the nation. Our buses go to all the suburbs and we have two rail systems.

By RD (63.188.33.105) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:27 am:

Objectively, however, todays' music capital: it would have to be either L.A. or New York. The days of the successful independent recording company poppin' up in cities like Detroit and even Philadelphia and becoming major forces I think are over.

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:49 am:

I tend to agree a bit with RD....
....in that the days of regionalism are about over due to (let's whip a dead horse here) the lack of independence of most radio stations. This is just a gut feeling based on nothing, but Detroit, Philly, LA, New York et. al. had unique music styles unto themselves that spread from local radio into the national scene.

By RD (63.188.33.105) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:53 am:

Atlanta was giving it a run for a while but that rage seems to have died down quite a bit.

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 11:19 am:

Do not cound Philly out!!
Historically, from the post war forties, there has always been a recording prescence starting with the Gotham label, then to Grand records and on to Cameo/Parkway in 1956.
When CP died it was on to Gamble, Neptune and ultimately PIR.
There were tons ofindies along theway as well pumping out future classics.
Philly has a habit of rising like the Phoenix and as they say."It aint over tillthe fat lady sings"

I know..I live there and I have been part of its musical heritage for a very long time and prior I to becoming "part of the scene" I was a young prodigious Philly music historian of sorts.
DO NOT count us out yet as the best is yet to come..Trust me!!!!

By medusa9e (155.139.50.14) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 11:24 am:

Soul Sister!
U R 2 correct. Right now, my youngest son lives N LA, doing some kind of Rap taping &/or music producing.
He left Detroit because he says there's nothing here N Detroit...But he always ask me 2 tape music from my era (60's)...and send it 2 him.
Nowadays it's called the music BUSINESS! There is still a lot of great talent N Detroit, but there's no one really 2 pick it up or push it anymore,due 2 the Rap & Hip Hop Invasion. As it was mentioned B4, some of the only places 2 hear good music, is N certain clubs, radio stations.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 11:27 am:

RD; I was afraid it might get your dander up tho'it was NOT my intention. True enough Jimmy & I have been to quite a few nice events here but as Jimmy (a native Clevelander) says the city still has alot of catching up to do in other ways,
there is still alot of prejudice here and unworldliness amongst alot more people then we experienced in other places. Once Cleveland was a Mecca for great Jazz Clubs all the greats came here in their heyday, today there is no Jazz Clubs with the exception of Nitetown. On the other hand there are great people here like Rock Hall's Ruthie Brown, Susan Hall, Martha and CEO Terry Stewart. The theaters at Playhouse Square where we saw The Manhattans & Bill Cosby. The Ampitheatre where I
saw & talked with Little Anthony after not seeing him for many years.
Its a pretty area to live in but I guess I just miss being where the action and my friends are mainly the N.Y. area & Los Angelos. I guess I feel out of the loop here I suppose thats why Ive been spending alot of time on the computer when we are not on the road and all my other work is caught up with. Lost in Cleveland, Soul Sister

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 11:30 am:

Medusa; Well said.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 11:31 am:

Bobby; With you working on it I know there will be great things still to come out of soulful Philly !

By RD (63.188.33.7) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 12:31 pm:

Soul Sister you can't compare Cleveland to Chicago, New York, Atlanta or Los Angeles. Though I prefer Cleveland to LA any day. LA's downtown area is a joke. Cleveland has quite a few jazz and blues clubs, they're small ish but we have them.

I guess if you're not into sports the fact that Cleveland has two stadiums (football and baseball), a basketball arena and one of the best college arenas in the country all within walking distance of each other, all downtown, and all built in the last 10 years will do nothing for you. Did I mention we have Lebron James. The downtown area will be one big crowded mess this Fall and new clubs and resturants will be opening.

The Cleveland area also had the finest facility to see live entertainment in the world when the Front Row was running. Sadly, it's no more.

Cleveland has a lot of things that many take for granted until they go to other cities. Try to get somewhere on a bus in Los Angeles, or Detroit for that matter.

Cleveland also doesn't have the severe weather other areas have. Any earthquakes are minor, no serious hurricanes or tornados, no floods, and minor insects problems. Ever see some of the bugs in the South or Southwest? And until this last winter, our winters have been mild for years.

As for racism and segregation. I'm with you on that one. Cleveland is not the city for young corporate bound African-Americans and it is one of the most segregated cities in America. Though, even that is changing. The city is also transitioning from an industrial city to a service town. Hence, high unemployment and people moving out.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 02:17 pm:

RD; I have to give to you, you are so right on on all you said, I'm just lonely in Cleveland.
Jimmy has often spoken to me about the old Front Row and many other great clubs gone today. We attended the ceromony for the Corner Tavern at its old location last June with Don King, Lloyd Price, etc. with banquet at the Rock Hall later with appearences by Jimmy, Lloyd and others, it was good fun,. I am learning the music history of Cleveland. Bare with me (smile).

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 11:44 pm:

WHY LA (PART 1)!!!...YOU HAVE ALL MENTIONED CITIES WITH GREAT MUSICAL HERITAGE AND AN ABUNDANCE OF MUSICAL TALENT EMERGING FROM THERE EVERY DAY!!!...CERTAINLY..."LIGHTNING" COULD STRIKE ANY ONE OF THOSE CITIES...AND A MUSICAL ENTITY COULD EMERGE THAT WOULD BE A CATALYST FOR DRAMATIC GROWTH AND BIRTH OF SOMETHING PHENOMONAL!!!...THAT BEING SAID...IF I HAD A KID SEEKING MY ADVICE ON WHERE TO GO...I WOULD HAVE TO DIRECT THEM TO L.A. IF NO OTHER FACTORS WERE PRESENT...HOWEVER...IT IS A TWO EDGED SWORD...MORE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THE "BEST OF THE BEST"(IN SOME PEOPLES OPINION)...VERSUS...THE ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF COMPETITION THAT ONE MUST OVERCOME TO GET THE CHANCE (SMALL FISH/BIG POND & VICE VERSA)!!!...WHEN I CAME TO L.A. SEEKING RADIO WORK...I SOON REALIZED THAT KABC WAS NOT EXPECTING ME OR AWAITING WITH OPEN ARMS BEYOND THAT OF THE OTHER 75 QUALIFIED PEOPLE TRYING TO GET THE SAME JOB!!!...BEING CLASSIFIED A WHITE MALE AT THE TIME DIDN'T HELP MATTERS EITHER (ALTHOUGH I LAUD THE GOALS OF A A)...BUT THATS NOT GERMAIN TO THIS TOPIC!!!...KEEP IN MIND THAT A LOT OF "GREAT" MUSICIANS TRIED TO SCORE IN L.A....ESPECIALLY AFTER THE MOTOWN THING IN DETROIT...AND THE ALLURE OF SUNSHINE AND MOVIE STARS ALWAYS PRESENT IN L.A.... QUITE TEMPTING FOR ANY ONE...LET ALONE MUSICIANS AND ARTISTS!!!...EVEN THE *LEGENDARY* JAMES JAMERSON WAS NOT...FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS...WELCOMED AS AN "A" PLAYER OUT HERE AT THE TIME (IMAGINE HOW MANY PRODUCERS ARE KICKING THEMSELVES IN THE ASS RIGHT NOW...HAVING HAD MISSED THAT ONE)...BUT MANY OTHERS TOO...GREAT PLAYERS...BUT THE "A" PLAYERS AND THEIR COMPADRES WERE ALREADY ON THE SCENE...AND NOT GIVING THEIR GIGS UP THAT EASILY...AND PRODUCERS...LIKE ANYONE ELSE...FELT MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THEIR "KNOWN" COMODITIES!!!...BUT TODAY...IN LOS ANGELES...THERE APPEARS TO BE MORE OPPORTUNITY...FROM JOBS WITHIN THE INDUSTRY (WHILE WAITING TO HOOK UP)...OR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOWCASE TALENT IN ALTERNATIVE MEDIA (TELEVISION AND FILMS)!!!..AS I STATED...THIS IS A HUGE ADVANTAGE...BUT I CAN COUNT THE SCORES OF TALENTED PEOPLE I'VE MET...WHO DECIDED EARLY ON...THAT THE ODDS ARE ALWAYS AGAINST YOU...AND MUST HAVE ENORMOUS DRIVE AND DISCIPLINE TO EVEN STAY IN THE GAME TO GRAB YOUR RAFFLE TICKET!!!...BUT FOR THOSE REASONS...I BELIEVE THAT THE TALENT WILL CONTINUE TO MIGRATE TO LOS ANGELES...AND WILL ALSO CONTINUE TO PRODUCE HOME GROWN TALENT...MANY FROM THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM...AND SUCCEEDED...OR DIDN'T!!!...PERHAPS I CAN EXPAND A BIT LATER!!!...STUBASS

By DF (24.90.11.4) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 11:13 am:

Sorry, Y'all, But the only city with the soul now is New Orleans. What I like about the musicians there is that they play everything under the sun. They will play everything from ragtime to Purple Rain to Hip Hop, and it is down home greasy soulful.

I heard one guy down there sing "Joy and Pain", and sounded like a 60s tenor. I saw a woman who sang the best rendition of "Amazing Grace" I ever heard. Then there was a teen brass band on Bourbon. Also, Gary Brown and Feelings play everything under the sun (Gary plays tenor, soprano and alto saxes). And finally, I saw a young, white boy horn section that would blow Average White Band and Seawind off the map.

Music scene's not that way here in New York. For one thing, it's too doggone segregated (genre-wise), and radio here is all top 40. Peace.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 11:31 am:

THANKS DF: PERSONALLY...WHEN I THINK OF NEW ORLEANS MUSIC...I IMAGINE THOSE JAZZ FUNERAL PROCESSIONS...WHICH IS A GENRE ALL UNTO ITSELF!!!...ALSO...ONE OF MY GOALS IN LIFE IS TO TRAVEL TO THE BACKWOODS OF SOUTHERN LOUISIANA AND EMBARK ON A ZYDECO TOUR!!!...THAT TO ME IS AN EXTREMELY INTERESTING MUSIC FORM...AND THE WAY THEY HAVE CRAFTED THOSE INSTRUMENTS TO PLAY THAT TYPE OF ORIGINAL MUSIC IS INCREDIBLE...BUT AS FOR A "SOUL" MUSIC CAPITAL...I HAVE MY DOUBTS!!!...THANKS FOR YOUR TAKE!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

HEY!!!...WHAT ABOUT LAS VEGAS AS THE NEXT "SOUL MUSIC CAPITAL"???...THE REASON I SAY THIS...IS THAT THERE IS CERTAINLY AN ABUNDANCE OF TALENT THERE...WHAT WITH MUSICIANS PLAYING LOUNGES...MAIN ROOMS...AND BARS AND CLUBS (RIGHT TONY B)???...THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF SINGERS SEEKING WORK THERE!!!...THE TALENT IS THERE...AS WELL AS A CLOSE PROXIMITY TO LOS ANGELES!!!...ARE THERE ANY RECORD LABELS THAT HAVE SET UP SHOP IN "SIN CITY"...AND IF NOT...WHY???...STU(THROWIN THE DICE)BASS

By soulboy (80.0.250.231) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 12:29 pm:

I can't honestly say there is one soul music capital associated with its own type of sound any more. The only one in fairly recent times that springs to mind is Minneapolis with flytetyme productions (terry lewis & jimmy jam) & of course that other purple person famous for changing his identity numerous times.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

SOULBOY: ARE YOU REFERRING TO $#*@%#*#%$#*???...

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 01:24 pm:

Stu...
...isn't that The Artist Formerly Known As $#*@%#*#%$*
Soulboy....
....and that was what, 10 years ago? The closest I can come up with for regional sounds nowadays is the east and west coast rap schools, and even there, the regionalism is dissapearing. Thanks, heaps, MTV.

By Scratcher (65.150.228.106) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 01:33 pm:

Interesting question Stu. To my knowledge no record label that ever amounted to anything has ever been based in Las Vegas. I bet Vegas it's not a big radio town. Most soul labels in the '60s were based in cities with soul radio stations. I can't think of one famous DJ who's identified with Vegas. And while it doesn't matter now, were there pressing plants, etc. nearby in the '60s, '70s...? It has also always surprised me that no significant recording company ever emerged from the Baltimore/Washington area.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.72) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 01:35 pm:

Hey DF
I like a lot of the New Orleans music and one form that I got to listen to a few years back was some of the Cajun stuff.
I quite liked the stuff that I heard.
regards
mel.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

I have to agree with Scratcher on the D.C. area comment. Back in the day there wer alot talent & hot radio stations in D.C Today the only radio station thats relevent to listen to is Felix Hernandez's Rhythm Review on Saturday mornings 10:00 am to 2:00pm, the best soul and history available, not just the commercial stuff.
Felix is on WBGO 88.3 out of Newark, N.J. but I hear he may be making the move over to KISS in N.Y. that will mean more time to listen to more great soul and obscure records, ya'dig?

By Kim Chee (152.163.252.68) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

Where else but in Seoul!!!

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 03:03 pm:

YOU FUNNY CABBAGE HEAD!!!...

By Bassn for God (24.158.71.34) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 03:40 pm:

I get the feeling that we might have left Nashville out because we think only country lives there. Ask Mr. Babbitt about the soul connection in his fine city. I really think with so many artist 'owning' their labels, the confined area of music has opened up. But like I asked several months back about the sound we love, Soul. We have to find it in ourselves. I have even added the Roadrunner licks from Bob's part in the book to our church service on occasion and our lady on the pipes just gives me the look. So to me Simpsonville, South Carolina is my home of Soul.

By Scratcher (65.150.228.106) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 03:51 pm:

Nashville is definitely the country music capital of the USA. They also recorded some good soul music there. And lest not forget Randy from Nashville booming all over the south and midwest in the '60s.

By Bob Olhsson (12.93.83.247) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 05:03 pm:

The Country Music Hall of Fame has announced that their next major exhibit is going to be devoted to the history of R&B music in Nashville.

It broke my heart to discover that WLAC had turned into talk radio after having been one of the most influential national soul stations of the 1960s. I have fond memories of listening to WLAC as a kid in Detroit and I remember Stevie Wonder telling me about listening late nights after he was supposed to be asleep.

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 06:52 pm:

Nashville has a deep involvement in soul, r&b and Gospel.
The Winans family, is originally from Nashville,
and Excello has a Gospel catalogue second to none. Joe Tex recorded all his hits there and James Brown as well.
Its just that to the average person over the years, Country music has become synonymous with Nashville.

By Jay Palmer (24.55.210.61) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 11:57 pm:

Stu

It's in every garage studio.
It's on the internet
It's at live concerts with your fav soul/R&B heros
It's got no address except to say that this is American music that has crossed geographical and racial boundries.

I just arranged and recorded a backing track for my daughter's Rock Theatre group. They sing and dance to pre-recorded CDs.

So of course a Karaoke track was not going to get it done for us.

We picked a Stevie Wonder tune.. Do I Do.
I wrote a jazz rubato vocal intro with acoustic piano and voice and then we came in with the Stevie-esque arrangement. I substituted for the horn parts a Wes Montgomery guitar part and we were off.

When someone asked me what that string patch was, I told them....
It was my dad! Ain't no string patch!
I had him play 6 violin parts in his living room!
What a kick!

Mid tune we broke into a rap-type version with my wife playing all the synth parts.
My daughter had her school friend come in and compose a rap section. Kenny Kirkland was his name (You may know his dad with the same name from the Rose Royce group!)

He tore the house down and my daughter Jayme sang and danced her heart out and I had a ball and EVEN mixed live sound at their performance.
Whoa....Now LIVE ain't easy at all I'll try to avoid that part next time!!

My point is that I did this whole production of 36+ tracks on my LAPTOP computer running a program called Nuendo IN MY GARAGE!

Soul is where ever you want it to be : - )
Peace,
Jay

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 12:48 am:

WOW JAY!!!...AND THATS HOW YOU SPENT YOUR SUMMER VACATION???...BUT I'LL BET YOU GOT SOME INTERESTING STUFF OUT OF ALL THAT!!!...UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT ABOUT THE ABUNDANCE OF ACCESS AND THE INFORMATION OVERLOAD AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN THIS DAY AND AGE...HOWEVER...I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT THAT AN ARTIST NOURISHES THEMSELVES WITHIN IS ENTIRELY GONE FROM THE EQUATION!!!...THE FACT THAT JAYME'S SCHOOLMATE GOT INVOLVED IN THE PROJECT PROVES THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE BY ONE PERSON SITTING AT HOME ON A COMPUTER (REMEMBER..."IT TAKES A VILLAGE")!!!...SO THE SOCIAL MILLEAU IS STILL WHERE THE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS OCCUR THAT WILL ENABLE ANY IDEA...CONCEPT...OR ENTERPRIZE TO FLOURISH WITH A DISTINCT DEMOGRAPHIC AND GEOGRAPHIC FLAVOR...THUS ALLOWING THE POSSIBLE EMERGENCE OF A FLAGSHIP SOUND IDENTIFYING THE SOURCE OF IT'S ORIGIN!!!...WHERE IS THAT PLACE...OR DOES IT ALREADY EXIST IN SOME FORM???...THANKS...STUBASS

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 12:55 am:

PS TO THAT!!!...INTERESTING CONCEPT THOUGH!!!...DO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET HAVE VASTLY DIFFERENT TASTE THAN OTHERS IN THE GENERAL POPULATION AS RELATES TO ART AND MUSIC???...OBVIOUSLY THE DIFFERENCE IN EDUCATION AND INCOME WOULD TEND TO PLAY A PART???...BUT SHOULD SOME "NEW AGE" PRODUCER...AT THIS VERY MOMENT...BE COMING UP WITH A NEW FORM OF MUSIC..."WEBTOWN RECORDS"... PRODUCING MATERIAL FOR SURFERS (NO NOT THE BEACH BOYS)???...LOTS OF RESEARCH...BUT WHO OUT THERE WANT'S TO GET RICH???...MAY HAVE AN OPENING OR TWO IN MY RESEARCH DEPARTMENT!!!...STUBASS

By Jay (24.55.210.61) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:03 am:

Summer Vacation?....I wish!

Late nights as I was working 60/80+ hour weeks at Universal at the same time!

The record biz is EXTREMELY puzzling.

Universal Music Group is for sale.
Now if it were so unprofitable, why is Steve Jobs and Apple trying to buy it?

Why did EMI just purchase another 100 mil of Berry Gordy's publishing?

I think geography is no longer an issue or a defining part of the sound. It was but it isn't now with instant connectivity to anything or anyone, anywhere at any time.

"EMERGENCE OF A FLAGSHIP SOUND"
I would Love it.
But would the radio stations and MTV play it if Clive Davis was not the producer??

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 11:53 am:

Folks:
I'm with Jay Palmer on this one....
Soul music has no firm address in any particular city...It is where your heart and spirit resides at that moment...
Granted, there were many cities that emerged as "soul cities" - Chicago, Memphis, New York, Detroit, LA, New Orleans - but let's not forget Muscle Shoals, Atlanta, Augusta (the home of Gladys Knight & James Brown), the Ohio region, St. Louis, Kansas City, the Mississippii areas as well.
Even my hometown of Rochester NY had its share of soulful musicians - the Rascals' guitarist Gene Cornish for example.
Soul music is in every city across the USA and overseas.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

NOT TO TAKE ISSUE WITH MY "BUDS"...BUT GUYS...TO SAY THAT THE INTERNET HAS SOMEHOW HOMOGINIZED AMERICA... BELIES THE FACT OF "EAST COAST"/"WEST COAST" RAP...THE DIFFERENCE IN EASTERN AND WESTERN STYLE OF BASKETBALL PLAY...AND THE MANY OTHER CULTURAL DIFFERENCES THAT EMERGE FROM REGION TO REGION...STATE TO STATE...AND CITY TO CITY!!!...SO I AM IN GENERAL DISAGREEMENT WITH THE BASIS OF YOUR ARGUMENT (STILL LOVE YOU GUYS)!!!...AND I THINK THE ISSUE MAY BE MORE OF THE STATE OF "SOUL MUSIC" VERSUS..."SOUL MUSIC" TO EMERGE FROM A GIVEN STATE!!!...DIFFERENT CITIES LEAD THE WAY IN MANY SPECIFIC AREAS...AND I SEE NO REASON WHY MUSIC IS ANY DIFFERENT!!!...HOLLYWOOD IS *STILL* THE FILM CAPITAL OF THE WORLD!!!...DETROIT (DESPITE ASSEMBLY PLANTS VIRTUALLY EVERYWHERE) IS STILL CONSIDERED THE "MOTOR CAPITAL" OF THE WORLD...OR AT LEAST THE U.S.A.!!!...SO...I ASK AGAIN...IN WHAT CITY IS MOST LIKELY TO EMERGE AS THE CENTER OF ENERGY FOR A "SOUL MUSIC" REVIVAL...OR IS THERE JUST NOT ENOUGH OUT THERE FOR A REVIVAL ON ANY TYPE OF SIGNIFICANT SCALE!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

PS TO KEVGO!!!...STEAK IS IN EVERY CITY IN AMERICA AS WELL...BUT IF I'M HANKERING FOR THE "REAL THING"...IT'S ON TO KANSAS CITY FOR ME...AND A BIG 32 OZ K.C. PORTERHOUSE!!!...STUBASS

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 12:54 pm:

Stu....
....but we're more mobile than we were, even in '65. I'm from the Detroit area, and have been in Central Washington for 25+ years. My college roomate Mike lives in Oklahoma. You live in L.A., and it's probably worked the other direction too. This spreading out has helped deflect some of the individuality of most areas of the county. Or like Anna Russell once said, it's not homogenious, it's homogenus (sp), like milk.
ALSO, we have the radio problem, where local bands have a harder time getting airplay. Listen to your Keener Dream Cruise CD's, then compare the diversity to what you here now. At any one time, there were 3 or 4 local groups on the Keener chart. Listen to radio now and try to identify the local acts. Without local radio support, it's more difficult for a "sound" to emerge, unless the pressure from the streets is hard enough to force airplay like the Seattle "grunge" sound did in the early '90's, which came out of the clubs.
I know what I'm trying to say, but I'm not saying it vwery well......

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 01:58 pm:

HEY DOUG: I THINK THAT I DO GET YOUR POINT...WHICH IS SIMILAR TO SCRATCHERS OBSERVATION...THAT CITIES WITH A VIBRANT RADIO COMMUNITY CAN SERVE AS A CATALYST FOR THE PROMULGATION OF SPECIFIC TYPES OF MUSIC!!!...DETROIT CERTAINLY HAD IT'S SHARE OF STATIONS WHICH PROMOTED THE DETROIT SOUND...FROM THE THE URBAN STATIONS..."CHB" AND "JLB"...AS WELL AS THE CKLW'S AND THE "KEENER'S!!!...THIS MIGHT BE ONE AREA WHERE THE INTERNET AND OTHER FORMS OF MASS BROADCAST CAN ENTER THE EQUATION...HOWEVER...I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S AS IMPORTANT AS TO WHERE THE MUSIC IS INTRODUCED TO US FROM...RATHER WHAT WE DO...ON A LOCAL BASIS...AND HOW OUR CULTURE INTERACTS WITH THOSE SOUNDS...WHICH AFFECTS OUT INDIVIDUAL AND SPECIFIC INTERPRETATION!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:19 pm:

ALSO DOUG: DESPITE THE RADIO THING WE'VE MENTIONED...THE MOTOWN SOUND WAS POPULAR ACROSS AMERICA...EVEN IN CITIES THAT DID NOT HAVE THE STRONG URBAN RADIO SCENE THAT DETROIT HAD!!!...GOOD THINGS TRAVEL FAST...OR AS DICK GREGORY ONCE SAID..."IF YOU HAVE A GOOD IDEA...YOU DON'T HAVE TO FORCE IT DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS...SOONER OR LATER...THEY'LL *STEAL* IT"!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:22 pm:

PS!!!...BROTHER "GREG" AS SPEAKING IN REFERENCE TO THE UNITED STATES EFFORTS TO "DEMOCRATIZE" SOUTHEAST ASIA!!!...STU

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:28 pm:

Sorry but I have to enter with the anguished cry in defense of words: "Or like Anna Russell once said, it's not homogenious, it's homogenus (sp), like milk."

Doug -- this puzzles me ...there's no such word as "homogenious," so what does this mean?
The word is spelled "homogenous" ...
Not "homogenus"...

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:46 pm:

so I can't spell.....
...the quote is "...not homogeneous, homogenous as in milk...."
HomogenEous, loosely translated, is natural, or like kinds. Homogenous (no second "e") is blended, like milk, or the great melting pot.
Anna Russell, on the other hand, is like no other, her "How To Write Your Own Gilbert And Sullivan Opera" to me stands with the Hoffnung Symphony Orchestra's "Unfinished Symphony" (again spelling)as a classical, er, masterpiece.

Both my points still hold, though. Back when regionalism was more evident, certain "sounds" endicitive of the area could emerge. Now a days, I'm not so sure.....

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

homogenious spelling should be homogenEous

homogenous is correct

By STUABSS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 10:16 pm:

SOUL "ANGEL" SISTER: YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT I FOUND QUITE INTRIQUING!!!...DON KING AND LLOYD PRICE *TOGETHER* AT A RECENT GATHERING???...MY UNDERSTANDING (AND IT WAS ILLUSTRATED IN THE RECENT FILM ABOUT DON KING)...IS THAT AFTER DON KING TOTALLY FU%KED LLOYD PRICE OVER THE ZAIRE DEAL THAT SURROUNDED THE ALI-FORMAN FIGHT...THAT THEY WERE THE BITTEREST OF ENEMIES (LLOYD PRICE EVEN RECORDED AN UPDATED VERSION OF "MR PERSONALITY" FOR THE FILM WHICH WAS HIGHLY CRITICAL OF KING)...AND ESPECIALLY PRICE...WHO WAS ALLEGEDLY SCREWED BY KING SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE YEARS!!!...IT'S ALL PROBABLY JUST NO SWEAT OFF HIS BACK" FOR KING...SINCE ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS MONEY ANYWAY...AND WILL PROBABLY FORGIVE *ANYONE* IF HE CAN MAKE A BUCK OFF OF THEM AGAIN!!!...COULD YOU GIVE SOME DETAILS OF THIS REUNION OF SORTS???...THANKS...STU(YOUR GRATEFUL "AD")BASS

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 10:54 pm:

Gee STUAngelBASS; I kinda like that Soul Angel Sister stuff! I know... but they kissed & made up!
well years back Don King bought into a club called the Corner Tavern, it was a jazz club. the story Lloyd told that day was : he had been appearing at the local R&B club Leo's Casino whenever he played Cleveland then for whatever reason he wanted to play the Corner cause it was swingin'back then, so he was the only R&B guy to appear there always after that and he & Don became tight so like any relationship it was sometimes on & sometimes off, even tho'they appeared as still being the best of friends at Don's landmark dedication to the Corner Tavern (even tho'its been torn down for years) last June 28th. tho'how good of friends they truly are today I don't know. However it was a fun day, festivities later at the Rock Hall were first class all sponsered/paid for by Don King. He had The Cinncinati Kid ( Tim Austin ) with him, a sweet kid, he became my temporary body guard later that night when Don took everyone out after the show for a second dinner of seafood at a famous local resturant in the hood. everyone had a great time Don really did it up that night! Lloyd seem to have a ball, and did a great shoe! Don & Rev. Al (Sharpton) had front & center row seats for his & Jimmy's perfomance and enjoying every minute of it. With all Don's history & I don't have to tell you, you know, Don is like the energizing bunny, he just keeps on going , I never seen a man enjoy life so much, I wish we all could be that happy. He sure knows how to throw one hell-u-va party!!!

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 11:21 pm:

THANKS SOUL SISTER: GLAD YOU LIKE THAT "ANGEL THING"!!!...I KNOW HOW DON KING CAN THROW A PARTY!!!...BACK IN (GEEZ...THAT EXPRESSION MAKES ME FEEL OLD)...ABOUT 1979...I WAS IN VEGAS WITH SOME DETROIT FRIENDS...MOSTLY ATHLETES...FOR THE HOLMES-SHAVERS FIGHT...AND AFTER THE FIGHT...WE GOT INVITED TO DON KINGS BAR B Q PARTY !!!... IT WAS SET UP TO THE HILT!!!...THE MAN *DOES* THROW SOME MONEY AROUND!!!...THANKS FOR THAT STORY!!!...STUBASS

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:03 am:

STU; I forgot to mention Jimmy McGriff was part of the show & ceremonies, he, Jimmy Scott, Billie Holiday & Other jazz greats who played that club back in the day will all have their names on the bronze plaque on the site of the old Corner Tavern. Lloyd Price will be the only R&B act who's name will be on the plaque. Although McGriff previously had a stroke and is wheelchair bound he still performs occassionaly, looks great, his wife Margaret was with him. Don King even had party favors for everyone in beautifully pckaged gift bags of black & gold, included was his own chocalate candy bar with his name on it just like a Hershey's bar!!! I got a minute to chat with Rev.Al whom I hadn't seen since JB's show at Lincoln Center in 1999, when I brought James some photos (I took of his late son Teddy years ago). The Rev. used to come by JB's show back in the day when he was about 11 or 12 years old! I introduced him to my Jimmy. Don & the Rev. were pretty tight, looked like they really enjoyed the show!! I guess that pretty much covers the whole event Stu.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 12:42 pm:

SOUL MUSIC CAPITAL TODAY???FIRST OF ALL THERE AIN'T NO MORE SOUL MUSIC,AT LEAST NOTHING NEAR THE CLASSIC SOUL DISCUSSED HERE,TO MY EARS THERE'S VERY LITTLE SONGWRITING AND EVEN LESS SOUL SINGING GOING ON,MAYBE THE QUESTION SHOULD BE..WHAT IS THE RAP,HIPHOP CAPITAL?

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 12:52 pm:

THERE YOU GO AGAIN R&B...HIP HOPPIN THROUGH THE LETTUCE PATCH!!!...BUT HEY!!!...WHAT ABOUT LUTHER...MARIAH...AND MANY OTHERS WHO ARE STILL SELLING MILLIONS OF RECORDINGS???...TRUE ENOUGH...SOME HIP HOP IS THE RESULT OF THE EVOLUTION OF "SOUL" MUSIC...BUT SOME CLASSIC "SOUL" DOES EXIST...BUT UNFORTUNATLY...MANY LISTENERS GET THEIR "SOUL" EXPERIENCE FROM THE MANY OLDIES STATIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY...AND IT'S PROBABLY TRUE THAT NOT ENOUGH NEW MATERIAL IS BEING PRODUCED...SO YOU GO KEVGO...AND OTHERS WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE CHANCE TO PUT "SOUL" MUSIC...ALBEIT 21ST CENTURY "SOUL" BACK ON THE CHARTS!!!...STUBASS

By R&B (138.238.41.30) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

I HEAR YOU STU,BUT STICKING TO MY CARROTS ON THIS ONE,LUTHER IS A LEGEND BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS ONCE UPON A TIME I COULD HEAR 10 SONGS AND LIKE 7 OF THEM AND EVEN THE THREE THAT I DIDN'T LIKE I COULD TOLERATE,BUT TODAY I'M LUCKY TO HEAR 2 OUT OF 10 THAT I LIKE,AND THE OTHER 8,FORGET ABOUT IT,NOW MAYBE I'M JUST STUBBORN OR AN OLD FOGEY AND I'LL BE THAT,BUT I GOTTA HAVE MY CLASSIC SOUL AND THAT'S IT!!!