By Patrick (68.74.29.248) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 03:38 pm: |
For me, the crack of a snare drum really completes the song. I love songs with sharp and tight snares. In the 70's and into the 80's, that sound seemed to die for bigger, and fatter snares. Stewart Copeland cracks the snare with such force that is sounds like a whip. Clyde's snare is pretty damn tight too. Tony Williams could make that whippy sound with it.
By 1Wicked (24.126.64.120) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 06:17 pm: |
For me it varies with the song....like Jerome "BigFoot" Brailey keepin' it on "Tha 1" or that "heartbeat" bass with Parliament (and he played one helluva "ride"), Earl Young's multiple changes within a song, John Robinson's intro licks (just tasty !!), and "Stix" Hooper's metronome like rim work.
By Uptight! (24.55.6.144) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 06:38 pm: |
For me it's Stevie Wonder's "Uptight (Everything's Alright)." Was that Stevie on the drums?
Then from the 80s I like Prince's heavy snare, especially on "1999." Was it Bobby Z on drums?
By Eli (151.197.180.108) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:10 pm: |
Some of my faves in no particular order are:
Leon "Ndugu" Chanceler on Billie Jean
Al Jackson on Soul Man
Steve Gadd(methinks) on Steely Dan's Aja album
Mick Fleetwood on Rumours
Earl Young on Mighty Love
Charles Collins on Youll Never Find ...
Quinton "Zob" Joseph on Have you seen her
Pistol and Uriel on Aint nothin like ....
Clyde Stubblefield on Cold Sweat
The snare hybrid on She drives me crazy
Max Weinberg on Hungry Heart
By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:15 pm: |
STUBASS LIKES THE SNARE "ROLL" INTRO TO EDWIN STARR'S "WAR"!!!...ALSO...WICKED...YOU MENTIONED STIX HOOPER!!!...YOU'RE RIGHT...THAT DUDE HIT SOME *MEAN* RIM SHOTS!!!...STUBASS
By Caleb (171.75.83.125) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 08:15 pm: |
Andrew Smith on Whatcha See Is Whatcha Get and Midnight Train To Georgia-2 different sounds but both top notch.
By Eli (151.197.180.108) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:36 pm: |
Andrew Smith on Sadie..The Spinners
Earl Palmer on Sea Cruise
Earl Palmer on You Lost That Lovin Feeling
Ziggy Modeliste on Cissy Strut
The little parade snare on From a Distance that only hapens once..pure taste.
The snare on Skin Tight
The snare on Fencewalk by Mandrill
Max Weinberg..Im on fire..Bruce S.
By Caleb (171.75.84.215) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
How about all of Earl Young's recordings.Bobby,where is he now?Does he still do session work?
By Sly fan (67.119.52.248) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 11:52 pm: |
Jabbo Starks snares are very clean..it almost has a steel like sound..
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.94) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:09 am: |
The frantic beat of the drums
in the
Instrumental cut of
"the charge"
by the
T.k.o's.
just of the top of my noggin.
mel.
By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 07:04 am: |
Anything by James Brown featuring Clyde Stubblefield or Jabo Starks
Morris Jennings on the "Superfly" soundtrack
Maurice White on Ramsey Lewis' "Wade In The Water"
Plus Maurice on many Impressions' tracks from the '60's
Roger Hawkins on many classic Aretha cuts
Earl Palmer on Sam Cooke's RCA stuff
By gary (66.73.238.3) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 08:09 am: |
Check out Benny Benjamin on the Tempts' "Say You" on the Gettin Ready album. SOLID. Also, I don't know who the drummer is, but there are some very crisp drum licks on the 5 Stairsteps' "Oooo Child"
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 08:13 am: |
Kenwood Dennard - Maceo Parker Live on Planet Groove
Jabo Starks & Clyde Stubblefield - James Brown
Dennis Chambers - Anything he does is funky!!
Manu Katche- Sledgehammer (Peter Gabriel)Noble and Cooley 6x14 Solid Shell Snare
?uestlove- The Roots 3x14 Yamaha Piccolo
Jojo Mayer- Swiss drummer in NYC www.jojomayer.com check it out!!
There are so many drummers out there with so many cool snare sounds that I would be here all day typing!!!
Daren Metz
Sony/Studio 4
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 10:38 am: |
I forgot to add this:
Uptight, the snare sound from 1999 is a Linn LM7, the precursor to the LinnDrum. He also used a simmons SDS5 and a Pearl Syncussion unit to get that type of sound on 1999. By all accounts, the only time that a real snare drum was used was on Lady Cab Driver and the rest was electronic.
Bobby Z, unfortunately was relegated to playing along with drum machine beats that Prince programmed during the 1999 phase. He was a pretty good drummer, but Prince liked "his" sound better.
I like that drum sound myself, and actually used to play electronic drums and accoustic drums to get that sound!
Daren Metz
Sony / Studio 4
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:05 pm: |
OK ALL YOU DRUMMERS OUT THERE!!!...SOME OF THE BEST SNARE ACTION IN JAZZ HISTORY..."KILLER JOE"...WRITTEN BY THE LEGENDARY BENNY GOLSON...PERFORMED BY HIS JAZZTET...FEATURING CURTIS FULLER...THE GREAT MCCOY TYNER...AND ON DRUMS...LEX HUMPHRIES!!!...LISTEN TO HUMPHRIES DISTINCTIVE SNARE ROLLS WHICH LEAD INTO THE VERSES...OUTSTANDING AND CLASSIC DRUM WORK!!!...STUBASS
By soulboy (80.0.250.231) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 01:18 pm: |
I always thought the sound of snare drum was the most distinctive on Motown records, You can debate forever whether this sound is the sound of two drummers, good EQ, added reverb,etc, But at end of day that sound DOES belong to Benny,Pistol,and Uriel at their best!
One other drummer i'd like to credit with a distinct snare sound is Al Jackson of Booker T and the MG'S. That sound is really cool!
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 01:24 pm: |
SOULBOY: "BIG" AL JACKSON HAS SOME SMOOTH MOVES!!!...I ESPECIALLY LIKE THE WORK HE DID FOR AL GREEN!!!...STUBASS
By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 01:50 pm: |
How about a subset? "Favorite extremely heavily processed snare sound"
My vote goes to Alan White on Phil Spector's production of John Lennon's "Instant Karma". If they were feeding all of that echo back to White via cans while he was playing, it would be a miracle that he didn't lose the beat. I wonder if he knew it was going to sound like that?
Regards,
Ken
By gary (66.73.238.3) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 01:55 pm: |
I have been playing drums since I was 12 (I'm 40-something now)and I have never heard a drummer play with better timing than the late Al Jackson Jr. He could lock into a groove and play with such precission that it is almost frightening. Listen to David Porter's "The Masquerade is Over" to see what I mean. Incredible.
By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 01:59 pm: |
Eli mentioned Steve Gadd (with a "methinks") on Aja. They used five or six drummers on that album, including Gadd, Bernard Purdie, Jim Keltner, and Rick Marotta. Marotta was the one with that really tight rhythm on "Peg". Gadd did the more "flourishey" playing on the title track. There's a pretty decent video out in the "classic albums" series where they interview a lot of the players involved.
Regards,
Ken
By Eli (151.197.207.138) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 02:22 pm: |
Jim Keltner story...
When we were in L.A. doing the Sextette soundtrack with Van Mc Coy, Jim Keltner was originally on drums.
In the middle of the second tune he got up and stormed out while cursing up a storm
Totally unprofessional I must say..
So much for Jim, huh???
By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 02:37 pm: |
Eli,
Unless that was an isolated incident, perhaps JK could be the drummer on next year's production of "VH1 Divas Livid".
Regards,
Ken
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 02:39 pm: |
Just like us drummers to start cussin and fussin!1 !!
That reminds me of the story of Jeff Porcaro who "stabbed" his drums with his drumsticks because Ricki Lee Jones kept screaming at him to PLAY LOUDER!!
It is pretty funny if you can find it on the web
Daren Metz
By Patrick (68.73.56.171) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 02:46 pm: |
Jeff Porcaro was such a damn good drummer! What he did in Silk Degrees was amazing! RIP
By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.33) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 03:03 pm: |
Heres a list of various drummers
I Have dug out either on tape or whatever.
Dont ask me if there snare drummers or what.
Just good drummers to me.
Fred Below
and his great work for Chess records.
including with Little Walter
and Sonny Boy (2)etc.
Another on Chicago's Chess Logo
Earl Phillips(w/Howling Wolf)
Recently got to hear
Tony Williams with The Miles Davis quintet.
The great Buddy Rich.
Kenny Arnott.
Art Blakey.
Another with Miles Davis
Philly Joe Jones.
New Orleans RnB Drummer
Earl Palmer.
Non/Blues/Jazz
how about the brilliant drummer that featured on a lot of the famous
Muscle Shoals/Fame 1960's recordings
the brilliant
Roger Hawkins.
Al Jackson Jr
of Booker T + M.G.s
"green Onions" etc.
Must mention Philly's outstanding
Earl Young(say no more).
and of course the supreme Motown Genius
Benny Benjamin.
Apologies if some of these dont fall into your snare title.
But I am just a fan.
Mel(bong-o-ing out-a-here)
By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 03:33 pm: |
John Bonham-Led Zeppelin-Levee Breaks
By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 03:59 pm: |
re: John Bonham
When I was going through my heavy junior high Zeppelin phase (as is the case with almost every suburban boy), I used to ponder why they called one of their songs "Four Sticks" and how that fit in with the lyrics. I was convinced if I could penetrate Plant's portentous prose that the mysteries of the ages would be revealed to me. Boy was I ever disappointed when I found out that they chose the song name because John Bonham played drums on it with two sticks in each hand.
Regards,
Ken
By Eli (151.197.207.138) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 04:11 pm: |
How about the great Ed Greene who played on all the Barry White records.
Talk about snare crack!!!
By Eli (151.197.207.138) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 04:15 pm: |
Amir Thompson of the Roots who, incidentally is the son of Lee Andrews(Arthur Lee Andrew Thompson)
By dvdmike (12.84.106.38) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 07:00 pm: |
There was an L.A. studio drummer who played on a lot of hits in the '60's & '70's. His name was Jim Gordon. Then, he started "hearing voices" and eventually murdered his mother and hacked her to pieces. He is still institutionalized in a facility for the criminally insane. A certain lady bass player told me a lot about him. A very talented musician who unfortunately lost control of his mind.
By Larry (69.3.130.80) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 09:08 pm: |
How nice that everyone forget one of the top 20 Pop drum performances of all time - IMO.
Spiral Staircase'
"I Love You More Today Than Yesterday"
Great drum sound and an even better syncopated kick/snare groove. There's very few songs that when they come on, I'm glued to and fascinated by that drum track.
By Caleb (171.75.84.183) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 09:17 pm: |
Gary,"Ooh Child" was Bernard Purdie.Bobby,Ed Greene,two thumbs up and what about Earl Young-where is he now and does he still do session work?Great drummer!!
By mhc (172.171.127.238) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 09:29 pm: |
There are lots of incredible drum sounds on R&R and Blues records from the 1950s. I wish I had a clue as to how they got the drum sound on, for instance, "Rock and Roll Music" by Chuck Berry, "I'm a Kingbee" by Slim Harpo, "Before You Accuse Me" by Bo Diddley, and "Hound Dog" by Elvis. Moving up to the '70s, I love the way that Willie Mitchell recorded drums on his Hi Records productions, and especially on "Trapped By a Thing Called love" by Denise LaSalle. That's got the fattest, greasiest snare drum on it that I can think of. My favorite snare/backbeat sound on a Motown record is "Dancing In The Street".
By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 10:14 am: |
Marshall;
I know that Willie Mitchell often used two kits with one drummer doubling the snare beats on a mounted-tom. I've tried that and it does fatten the sound, but there has to be something additional (mic placement , or eq ) because my experiments didnt come close to duplicating that amazing sound.
SteveK
By the count (65.60.201.174) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 10:32 am: |
I love snappy and tight snares,with calf skins which I still use.My favorite snare play along with song is ,"you gotta give her love" by the Volumes.It's nothing but snare drumming at it's best and the most fun snare drumming song to play,snare drum from beginning to end,and what kool snare drumming durring the fade out durring the end.Credit also goes to Dennis Coffey on this kool jam,opens with klean chords and runs through the whole song with those licks,if you dont dig this type of snare drumming, you've got a whole in your(snare) soul.
Who is playing on this particular cut?
Is it BENNY or PISTOL??
"COUNT"
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 10:41 am: |
Isn't one of the great snare hit of all time the first note of Marvin Gaye's "I Heard It Through The Grapevine"?
By R&B (138.238.41.215) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 10:51 am: |
TALKIN ABOUT SOME FUNKY SNARES HOW ABOUT[WHY YOU WANNA MAKE ME BLUE BY THE TEMPS,I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S PAPA ZITA OR NOT BUT IT'S FUNKY!
By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 04:33 pm: |
LT...
You have to use a medium tom detuned down a bit until you get that texture.
Earl Young used it extensively especially on the Spinners. He "borrowed" it from Al Jackson and always gives Al credit for it.
Also,I was listening to Ooh Child thismorning and Purdie was busy as a be on that one.
He sounded as though he was "fishing" and doing some drum acrobatics.
I dont know how Stan Vincent , the producer let him get away with that. I certainly never would.
By 1Wicked (24.126.64.120) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 05:55 pm: |
I just double checked his website....and Jerome "BigFoot"/"Capt. Himbad" Brailey states HE was the frummer on "Ooh Child" AND The Unifics "Court of Love". Is there any definitive proof that it was Brailey or Purdie on The Stairsteps cut ?
By Bradburger (172.188.97.95) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:24 pm: |
I always liked Uriel Jones on Cloud Nine, especially the intro. I also though he was great on "Special Occasion".
Maurice White did a great job on Sugar Pie Desanto's "I Don't Wanna Fuss"
Glad Some of you mentioned Roger Hawkins. One hell of a drummer. I thought he rocked on Wilson Picketts version of "Hey Jude".
Pistol Allen on Brenda Holloway's "Reconsider" and the Velevelettes "These Things Will Keep Me loving You. Both have really great four on the floor beats with the typical Hitsville fills.
Uptight, the person responsible for the drumming on your namesake song was the one and only Benny Benjamin. And of course that was him on "Girl Why You Wanna Make Me Blue".
Cheers
Paul
By Uptight (24.55.6.144) on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 10:06 pm: |
Thanks, Paul, for the info on Benny Benjamin!
-Christopher
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 12:07 am: |
The setting of the session for "Girl (Why You Wanna Make Me Blue)" - how Whitfield needed an undeniable riff to kick off a a track - is the table-setter for Benny Benjamin's brief bio printed in the R&R Hall of Fame induction program. Need I say, written by Allan Slutsky. Additionally, the promo CD representing the RRHOF inductees features that song to honor Papa Zita.
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 01:20 pm: |
J.R. Robinson's snare on Stevie Winwood's Higher Love. Especially the intro. A Yamaha brass piccolo with a remo coated emperor head with a white dot in the center of the batter side which was a custom made head for J.R. 6'-4" 200+ lbs. of power on that drum.
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 01:23 pm: |
HEY HORSE: YOU RUNNIN IN THE "BELMONT" THIS YEAR???...STU($100 ON THE NOSE)BASS
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 01:33 pm: |
Great Snare Sounds:
1) Anything Earl Young, especially Harold Melvin's "Where Are All My Friends".
2) John Robinson: Michael Jackson's "Rock With You"
3)Ed Greene: Barry White's "I'm Gonna Love You Just A Little More, Baby"
4) James Gadson: Patrice Rushen's "Where There Is Love".
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 01:37 pm: |
Tell me something. Why do almost all of the snares today (recordings and live) all sound like tin. Literally all of them. Earl Young's snare NEVER sounded like tin. His sound was fat, round and full.
Is is the room? Mikes? Tuning? Manufacturing? That tin sound is awful. Peace.
By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 01:41 pm: |
Eli & Caleb,
I always wondered who was drumming on "Ooh Child". The panned stereo drum fills towards the end might be a bit much but I think it's a got a great groove.
Anyone know who plays the drums on The Inpressions "It's Allright"? Maurice White maybe?
It has some great snare fills.
-Steve
By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 03:42 pm: |
A lot of the current crop of "engineers' know nothing about miking a drum kit.NOTHING!!
In Earl's case several things come into play.
1. Earls style of playing
2.Room ambience and mike spill
3.His sticks
4.The snare head muting The mikes used and their placement
5.Great songs
6.Studio interaction with the rest of us at close proximity
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 04:09 pm: |
Thanks, Eli,
It seems like the engineers' lack of knowledge is spilling over into bass recording as well. Bass recordings these days are horrible. You can tell by the records.
Take the best engineers of all time: Bruce Swedien (Quincy Jones), Tom Dowd and Jimmy Douglass (Atlantic), Mike McClain (Motown), Joe Tarsia (Philly Int'l), Bob Clearmountain (Chic), Ray Bardani (Luther Vandross and Marcus Miller) and Steve Barkan (Masters At Work). Those guys knew (or still know) how to record bass.
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.101) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 04:19 pm: |
Hmmm? Good bass and drum sound? What's the plug-in for that again? Hey Eli, can't I just borrow your Baker/Young software and loop it?
Regards,
Ken
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 04:56 pm: |
Stu,
Yes...I'll be there in the winners circle. Of course, my least favorite part will be the piss test thing after the race, But what the heck...just think of all the perks. THE SUD FARM in my old age. Guaranteed !@#%$%...!
DF,
J.R.'s track on Rock With You was cut on an 18" Gretsch kick drum and a 5 1/2" Ludwig superfonic snare drum. What a signature intro.
Bobby,
AMEN...!
p.s. Good luck on your recovery.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 05:10 pm: |
Favorite snare drum sounds:
Benny Benjamin's intro on the Supremes' "Come See About Me" & the Tempts' "Girl (Why You Wanna Make Me Blue)".
Al Jackson Jr. on Otis Redding's "Respect" and "I Can't Turn You Loose".
Floyd Sneed on Three Dog Night's "Shambayla" and "Joy To The World".
Pete Rivera on Rare Earth's "Get Ready" & "Hey Big Brother"
Maurice White on Ramsey Lewis' version of "Maiden Voyage" from 1968.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By 1Wicked (24.126.64.120) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 09:15 pm: |
Horse,
J.R. justs amazes me sometimes...the way he locks in to a groove. I swear...he must lose 20 pounds a session with all that power he puts into it (yet with finesse). Hmmm...P'nesse ?? (LOL)
Is there any video available on him ????
By mhc (172.165.33.142) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 10:09 pm: |
Hi Steve Litos, this is an educated guess but I think that the drummer on "It's Alright" is Al Duncan; it seems to me that I read that somewhere..
By Gary Rosen (12.234.25.217) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 03:11 am: |
To the other Gary, you are right on about Al Jackson - he was awesome on all the MG tracks, Wilson Pickett, Otis, etc. One of the best snare sounds I've ever heard was on Syl Johnson's "Total Explosion" with his version of "Take Me to the River". Al Jackson did not play on it, but he produced it. He knew what sound he wanted.
BTW I've been playing bass for 30+ years - we could form the Gary rhythm section!
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 08:35 am: |
1WICKED,
J.R. did an instructional video on the Starlicks series back in the late 80's-early 90's. He's an extremely intense player. I think J.R. amazes himself, from some of the conversations I've had with him.
By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:40 am: |
Hey DF
Yes , a lot of the current bass sounds falter for the same reasons as I have previously stated.
First of all, most of the records that we all know and love had bass players who used heavy guage flat wound strings which produced a warmer, rounder, fatter sound.
Usually the bassists were miked and going direct at the same time , with their signals being split on to two channels or tracks and blended together for the right amound of roundness and attack.
When the late seventies and the eighties cam upon us, all that popping came into play further diminishing the efectiveness of the instrument as a bottom carrying device.
The Hi records Willie Mitchell produced songs, in my opinion have some of the warmest fattest bass sounds ever recorded.
Also in my humble opinion even though the Motown records had the genius of Jamerson and Babbitt on them, I think the the engineers could have raised the volume on the bass several db in most cases.
The Philly bass sound was a little bit cleaner due to the advancement of recording technology at the time.
But at the end of the day, it is a combination of the player, his bass, the song and the engineering expertise which mad it work in each of the respective geographical locations previously mentioned.
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 11:02 am: |
JR WALKERS "SHOTGUN" FEATURES SOME NICE SNARE WORK ON THE FILLS (SYNCOPATED TIMING)!!!...THE THING THAT I FIND INTERESTING ABOUT THAT...IS THAT BACK IN THAT DAY...AND EVEN LARGELY TODAY...THOSE TYPE OF FILLS WOULD USUALLY BE PLAYED ON MULTIPLE HEADS...SNARE...SMALL TOM...BIG TOM ("MOTOWN SHUFFLE BREAKS FOR EXAMPLE)...BUT THE FILLS IN SHOTGUN ARE LIMITED TO THE SNARE...PROBABLY BECAUSE THE CRISPNESS OF THE SNARE SOUNDS MORE LIKE A... "SHOTGUN"!!!...STU(RAT-A-TAT-TAT)BASS
By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 03:45 pm: |
MHC - Thanks for the info on Al Duncan. BTW - Good job at the Abbey Pub in Chicago!
-Steve
By DF (24.90.11.4) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 08:12 am: |
Another John Robinson intro: George Benson's "Love X Love". Bangin' track. Peace.
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 01:48 pm: |
DF,
J.R. got picked up by Rufus and Chaka during their Street Player tour approx. 77'. J.R. moved to L.A. at that time and started doing sessions with Quincy shortly after. Seems like everbody wanted to have Quincy producing them at that time due to the success of Michael Jackson's Off The Wall album. Everyone wanted that specific rythym section, thinking it would gaurantee a successful album. Bruce Sweden engineered a lot of those tracks and if I'm correct also Love X Love. J.R. was endorsed by Slingerland during his early sessions but actually used various Gretsch kits for recording before moving to Yamaha. Personally, I always felt Bruce's drum mixes were to small and dry for my taste, but I guess it just accented the tightness of the groove. At times, you could barely distingish the difference between the snare and kick when J.R. was using a deeper custom snare from Valley Drums.
By the count (65.60.201.174) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 02:05 pm: |
John J.R. Robinson was a pretty tuff drummer and has a list of credits as long as your arm, of who he performed with,and for.But,he in my opinion destroys the "just a gigolo" drummin for the remake of that song by David Lee Roth.
Nothing like the real thing with Louis Prima with JIMMY VINCENT on drums.Jimmy was KOOL.
"COUNT"
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 02:12 pm: |
Hi Horse!
Isnt it amazing how many drummers endorse a certain brand for magazine support and $$$ but in the studio use a completely different thing??
Jeff Porcaro "Endorsed" Pearl but always used "Gretsch"?
Harvey Mason at one time used "Legend" but always used Gretsch drums too!
And lets not forget Vinnie Colaiuta who had Yamaha building custom kits, but again used "Gretsch"
Harvey and Vinnie are using Gretsch full time now!!
(I gotta get a set of these!)
Daren Metz
Sony/Studio 4
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:01 pm: |
Drums,
That's the truth about a lot of players and endorsments. As I stated before, when your down and out and could really use an endorsement, no one will give you one. But when you can afford to have any type of drum gear you want, everbody and their mother wants to give you an endorsement. I choose to use Gretsch because I love the sound and wouldn't endorse a product I don't believe in. Besides, the magazine advertising is related to whoever is the flavor of the month. If you ever noticed. J.R. has not done a whole slew of interviews. I personally think it is due to more political reasons. I know that he left Yamaha for a while because they didn't overly promote the advertising side of his endorsement. He went over to Pearl but came back to Yamaha. (probably after re-negotiations. I do know that he is very loyal to Yamaha because he feels strongly about their produce. I've been playing Gretsch for about the last 25 yrs. One of my current kits is approx. 23 yeras old. Gretsch can be a pain in the ass to tune and requres a bit of patients, but when there on, they are very natural and round. I also have a small pearl kit which has an 18" kick which I love for jazz dates. However, my main snare is a pearl brass piccolo snare with a Remo emperor on the batter side and an ambassador on the snare side. I have been very happy with that drum.
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:15 pm: |
You drummers are something with your sets. I thought we bassists were pains in the boots.
I thought Gretsch was prefered by the straight-ahead jazz cats, but it seems like the fusion and R&B players used it, too. Gretsch must give out a real good, round drum sound, despite the tuning and maintainence problems.
Same with Fender Basses. Both P's and Jazzes (especially P's) can be pains in the butt to tune (especially a flatwounded E string), but Fenders are still the most REAL sounding basses in the universe. The closest step outside of that I'll go is to the MusicMan. You see what I want, right? A 60s or 70s sound. Peace.
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:15 pm: |
Hey again Mr. Horse!!!
I agree with you 1000% I noticed that JR, as bad of a drummer as he is had a hissy fit when Yamaha refused to build him a "custom" snare drum! And he stomped off to Pearl. But I think he realized that Pearl has so many drummers that his Signature drum with them kinda got lost in the mix, hence he stomped back off to Yamaha!!
But you know what's funny? He uses Ludwigs (Black Beauties) to record with!! He also has 4 snare drums with my company (Noble & Cooley)as well as a crapload of drums from Brady, Joe Montinieri, Pork Pie and other companies!!! And between you and me - (looking around, stealthily)he still records with GRETSCH!)
Drummers, we cant make up our minds! We are like kids in a candy store
Anyway, I have been with Noble & Cooley, Sabian, ddrum, and Vic Firth since 1994 but I am even thinking about buying some of the Gretsch Custom Plus snares that are out and a Broadkaster kit to keep in the closet!!
If they were good enough for Pistol, Harvey,Vinnie, JR, and Jeff who am I to argue!!
Daren Metz
Sony Studio 4
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:24 pm: |
Hey Mr. DF,
I used to think only drummers acted like we do until I saw Melvin Davis' bass rig!!! Question, If a bass has 7 strings on it, is it really a bass anymore ?
Anyway, I used to think that Gretsch kits were only for "jazzers" until I sat down on a set of Broadkasters. All that I can say is WOOOOWWWWW!!
The way that the bearing edges are cut give them such an open funky sound that you just grin when you play em!!!
The only problem with Gretsch is the company itself. They open, they close, they change ownership, they come out with a great product, they stop making the product. For these reasons, I leave em alone. But they still make kick ass drums!!
Daren Metz
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:29 pm: |
Oh and the last JR comment -
Did you guys know that for the Michael Jackson/Quincy Jones sessions, Quincy took all of JR's tom-toms away?
He said JR was overplaying and wouldnt pay Quincy any attention in the control room. The next day all JR had left on the kit was his HiHats, Snare, Bass drum, and one crash and a ride!
Pissed him off terribly but look at the result!!
Off the Wall
Thriller
BAD
Stick with the pocket!!
Daren Metz
By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:37 pm: |
I know that all of you "drum junkies" will hate me for saying this but in my opinion , it is the player not the brand of drums.
Earl Young played on countless hit records with a miss matched set of generic drums and it worked for us.
Everything else is just fluff.
A great drummer and a great engineer coupled with great songs make great records.
It is akin to whatever the flavor of the week may be so to speak.
Everyone and his mama is running out to buy pro tools or work in a pro tools environment, but first you must have a great song.
What is pro tools gonna do with a lousy song?? Zilch!!!
So therefore thereare no set rules in the game.
Without a HIT SONG nothing else matters.
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:44 pm: |
Drums,
I know that J.R. used to have a large anvil road case with about ten slots for different snares which were present at his sessions. I have played his Yamaha piccolo and a few of the others including one of the black beauties. The funny thing about J.R. 's snares is that hey don't actually sound so great of the mic, but they record great. I know J.R. thought highly of his Noble and Cooley snares. I'm also an endoresing artist of Vic Firth and swear by them.
DF,
Yeah...us drummers sure get overkill with infatuation with drums. Then we beat the shit out of them. Go Figure..?
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:46 pm: |
That was to read "off the mic"
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 03:58 pm: |
Hey, is that a guitar player in here with us drummers (snickering!!)I'm gonna tell Paulie 3 Shoes that Eli is causing trouble!!
I agree with you seriously Bobby!! I had my Black kit with all of the toms, 3 snare drums and a crapload of cymbals setup, and what does the producer want? The 60's Ludwig 4 piece with the old beat up green cymbals!!
What do we know!! (You will see it on the 21st!!)
Hey Horse, tell Marco Soccoli that Daren Metz was causing trouble again !
Have you tried the VF Extreme 5a yet? Great stick...
Daren Metz
Sony/Studio 4
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 04:26 pm: |
Bobby's absolutely right. It's the drummer. Russ tells the story of a Motown session where a different drummer would be used for two songs. The sound was set up for the first drummer and the song was recorded. The drums sounded great. Next song...new drummer. Drums had to be completely re-worked in the control room.
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 06:33 pm: |
Dear Mr. Drums (Daren Metz),
When a bass has more than 4 strings, it stops becoming a bass. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw Melvin Davis with Chaka Khan (both live and on video playing that 7 string). Sorry, muti-stringers, but 7 strings make no sense, unless you are a soloist/frontman (John Patitucci style. He plays 6). Why anyone would use a 7 string while backing someone up is beyond me. I thought you were supposed to groove and stay primarily in the pocket when backing someone up, especially someone like Chaka. Chaka likes him, I guess (and Ramsey Lewis likes 7 man Bill Dickens), so what do I know??????
By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 07:58 pm: |
It is the groove that matters!
Earl Young and Al Jackson couldn't care less about the latest "this or that"
It has got to be "organic" and in the pocket.
If there was a mistake, so be it because the groove prevailed.
We couldn't give a s**t about all that technical crap, just give us a groove that did not let up and that worked for us.
Al Jackson and Earl Young both played with the "fat" end of their drumsticks with "baseball bat" type drumsticks.
Al and Earl were very similar in their approach to making records.
None of that "mumbo jumbo" which was mentioned earlier got over in our camp.
My lawyer at the time represented Billy Cobham and he wanted to kinow if he could do some dates with us.. and the answer was a resounding NO!!!
We did out thing and that was that..end of story.
It may have not lived up to the ears of the so called technicians, but hey we laughed all the way to the bank!!!
F**k art...lets dance!!!!!
By Lynn Bruce (69.14.140.151) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 08:23 pm: |
My favorite drums were my mothers pots I used to set up in a circle around me on the kitchen floor.I think she helped chip in for my first drum set just to save the rest of her pots and pans. lol
When I started playing full time I've always used Ludwig drums,Zildgen(sp) cymbles with a Rodgers high-hat and a Rodgers pedal(I love that pedal,could almost do a roll with one foot it was so fast)(single-stroke of course).
The truth is when ever I sit in on someone elses set,I usually like it better than my set(usually).
The grass is always greener!!
The bottom line as Bobby Eli said is it's the drummer not the drums.
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 08:29 pm: |
LYNN: IS THAT SORTA LIKE..."IT AIN'T THE ARROW...IT'S THE INDIAN"???...STU
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 08:33 pm: |
P.S. TO LYNN...OR ANY OF YOU "FATBACK CATS"!!!...I REMEMBER "LITTLE JOHNNY"...THE DRUMMER FOR "MITCH RYDER AND THE DETROIT WHEELS" BACK IN THE 60'S!!!...HE WAS THE FIRST PLAYER THAT I EVER SAW PLAYING THOSE "FLAPJACK" DRUMS...BARELY WIDER THAN THE SKINS!!!...ARE THOSE STILL WIDELY (OR AT ALL) USED ANY MORE...IN THAT I RARELY...IF EVER SEE THEM!!!...WHAT WAS THE SUPPOSED ADVANTAGE OF THOSE DRUMS (OTHER THAN EASE OF TRANSPORTING)...AND HOW DIFFERENT WAS THE SOUND OF THOSE VERSUS A CONVENTIONAL DRUM SET???...STU
By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 08:44 pm: |
Out of all of the "regional" records made, especially in the sixties and early seventies,
the Southern players ie Stax, Muscle Shoals, American Sound, Fame, etc. had free reign in the studios when they were not on a normal schedule.
They had total access to the studios and were free to experiment on things and they also had profit sharing!!
Unfortunately, we were not afforded that kind of luxury due the shortsightedness of the powers that were.
Just think of what could have been if we had "total access"
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 08:25 am: |
Hey Bobby,
I agree with you regarding what Earl Young, Pistol,Uriel,Benny, and so many other drummers did, laying down the grooves that they did!! (You know that I know )
I think that today, there is such an explosion of new types of drums as well as new techniques on building drums that the "sound" of the new stuff that is coming out is a great leap forward.
Plus now you have drummers like JR & Bun E.Carlos as well as others that have cornered the "vintage market" for that type of sound too!!
When you get a chance look up www.drumdoctors.com and see the amount of equipment that is available to us today!! It is really amazing what drummers and drum manufacturers are doing! Also check out www.dunnett.com and take a look at the titanium alloy snare drums that Ronn is building.
These are just 2 examples of the progression that drum building has gotten to and I am sure that even Earl and Al would probably use some of the new stuff to make your recordings sound even better!!
I could be wrong though!
I also agree with you on the Pro-Tools thing too. I have Pro-Tools at home but a lot of people use it incorrectly. You should learn the basics of engineering before you spend a lot of cash on Pro-Tools and you use it to steal samples of music from the 70's and make drum loops!!
I dont know....
Daren Metz
Sony/Studio 4
By Conrad72 (63.97.240.1) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 08:44 am: |
Buddy Miles on the Band of Gypsys album
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 09:08 am: |
Bobby,
I agree with you 100% regarding the groove thing. If it ain't a rock solid groove it ain't happenin'. I've done sessions where I have over dubbed using chairs and metal bars as instruments which enhanced the groove. But, it's sort of like which type of axe you would choose to play. The difference between a Strat, Tele, Les Paul or some off brand from Kmart. You would definetly want some quality behind it. I think DRUMS stated it very well in his definition regarding the progress of drum manufacturing. I guess it would just enhance an already great groove to sound that much better. My first kit was made of boxes from the vegetable market and old coffee cans. It don't mean a thang...If it ain't got that swang...!
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 09:20 am: |
Hey there Horse!!
You just reminded me of the first movie session that I did!!! The producer didnt know what type of sound she wanted exactly. So 2 types of kits were brought in - A new kit and a vintage kit. She didnt like either one!! So we ended up using a couple of boxes of rice for shakers, an ancient 30's snare drum with really old calskin heads, a big metal pan, and she made all of the people in the studio "stomp on the wood floors in time to simulate a "bass drum"!!
It sounded better than anything else! Go figure!
Daren Metz
PS. What state are you in?
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 09:32 am: |
Drums,
Sounds like a quick trip to the local grogery store with a stop by the hardware store for that kit. It sounds like that producer had quite the open mind. It definitely beats the usual producers request of "can you put another pillow on that snare drum..?"
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 09:37 am: |
HEHEHEHEHEHEHE
It was for an independant film that wanted to recreate how music was done in the south before the drums were created! The producer said he wanted a New Orleans type of beat - so I wasted all a month learning how to play like the Meters, and listening to zydeco music -and they didnt want that at all!! They wanted SHOUT music!!
Anyway, are you on the east coast or west coast?
D
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:04 am: |
Drums,
I'm currently in Detroit. Spent numerous years on the east coast and about 9yrs. in L.A. I'm in the process of setting up possible relocation to Nashville. Where are you located?
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:10 am: |
My old hometown!!!
Went to Southeastern High School But lit out and moved back to my birth home in Philly!! But my Mom,Dad & 11 brothers and sisters are there!
I havent been to Nashville yet, but I am thinking about taking a trip down there!
D
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:36 am: |
Wow,
Your from Detroit. I grew up about 5 miles from Southwestern High School. I'm putting together a calculated relocate to Nashville as it seems the place to be.
By Lynn Bruce (69.14.140.151) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 01:11 pm: |
Stu: About those thin type drums.I think the coolness of them attracted a lot of drummers but the ease of having more room in your vehicle or van plus some stages are really small,made them a good thing.
As far as sound:in the sixties before drummers started miking the drums, the size was more important,especially when I played in arenas or outdoor concerts. Once we started mikeing the drums it them became a moot point as you could hit a thimble and make it sound like a church bell if you cranked it up.
Ease of transporting when you do a lot of one nighters makes the more experienced drummers start down-sizing.
But man you sure do look cool sitting behind a big-ass set surounded by four or five toms!!
Slainte Lynn
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 09:03 pm: |
Lyn,
As a keyboard player I would lament at the gear I had to deal with ( B-3,Leslie, Rhodes, Marshall stack etc. ) until I would watch the drummers setting up. Man Lyn, you guys got the short end of the stick. It wasn't just setting up, but all the adjusting that went with the program. So retrospectively, I had it pretty good. But let's not start talking about sax players now.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 09:58 pm: |
And I just now noticed I shorted you an "n" in your name. Sorry Lynn. I know I guy out hear that spells it Lyn and I'm easily confused at times.
By the count (65.60.201.174) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:25 pm: |
TRY THIS for kool drums ,video clips,sound clips,tons of pictures,******************
www.drummerworld.com
"COUNT"
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 11:06 pm: |
SPEAKING OF EQUIPTMENT...CARRYING AROUND MY 80 LB. AMPEG B-15 WAS NO EASY TASK...INTO THE TRUNK...OUTTA THE TRUNK...FORTUNATLY...IT HAD WHEELS... ONCE IT HIT TERRA FIRMA!!!...DRUMMERS GOT THE WORST OF IT...EXCEPT FOR THOSE HAMMOND PLAYERS WHO HAD TO RENT A U-HAUL EVERY TIME THE VENUE DIDN'T HAVE AN ORGAN...BUT THE REST OF THE MUSICIANS WOULD ALWAYS END UP DOING SOME OF THE HEAVY SCHLEPING ANYWAYS!!!...HORN PLAYERS... PU$$&#'S!!!...THOSE CRACKED LIPS SERVE THEM RIGHT!!...STU*BASS*
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 11:17 pm: |
Yeah Stu. Sax players. I love them but they really are a breed. While your're agonizing over your set up they're eyeing a reed in the mouthpiece like it's a major hassle to get it just right with the ligature.
By Eli (172.202.116.254) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 05:39 am: |
Sax players are always"crying in their beer" and complaining about their"old ladies"
They are borderline alcoholics and they never remove their straps. They probably wear them during"amorous moments"
By Allen (24.165.82.46) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 07:02 am: |
They use Strap-Ons? OH NO!
I played on Teena Marie's "Lover Girl" with JR. Tom's were an overdub. Could have left them off. I had to ignore them sometimes.
David Garibaldi- Tower Of Power
" What is Hip"
"Only So Much Oil"
"Squibb Cakes"
"Oakland Stroke"
"Soul Vaccination"
Allen
By Lynn Bruce (69.14.140.151) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 07:10 am: |
Ralph and Bobby-- You guys just gave me my morning laugh.How true it is.As sweat would be pouring off my face from lugging my drums and helping the organ player,in bopps the sax man bitching that he went through half a box of reeds before he found one that was any good. LOL
By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 04:07 pm: |
I can begin to tell you how many gigs I played with bands who had B3's!!
Fortunately since I was JEW, I moaned and whined my way out of the heavy stuff!!
I suppose that my bandmates felt sorry for me..or my mom!!
Perish the thought of precious "little" Eli carrying such a behemoth up flights of stairs into vast puddles of beer. No No No No!!!
People are "hired" for those kinds of tasks.
TSK...TSK...TSK...!!!!@!#$%^&*()
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 04:18 pm: |
I SUPPOSE THAT ANY SAX PLAYER WHO COMPLAIN'S ABOUT HIS "IMPERFECT" REEDS SHOULD BE SENTENCED TO PLAY THOSE PLASTIC ONES...PLUS...IT WOULD MATCH THEIR PLASTIC UNDERWEAR PERFECTLY!!!...OR BETTER YET...HOW ABOUT THOSE TRUMPET PLAYERS WITH THAT STUPID LITTLE BOTTLE OF VALVE OIL THEY ALWAYS CARRIED AROUND IN THEIR POCKETS???...I WAS WAITING FOR THE DAY WHEN ONE OF THOSE "BLOW-HARDS" WOULD MISTAKE THAT VALVE OIL FOR VISINE!!!...NOW YOU'RE GETTING ME *ALL* PISSED OFF!!!...STUBASS
By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 04:48 pm: |
SPEAKING OF TRUMPET PLAYERS...I HAVE TO LAUGH REMEMBERING THIS ONE!!!...I WAS PLAYING A GIG WITH TRUMPETER RON JACKSON...WHO WAS A FEW YEARS OLDER THAN THE REST OF US!!!...THE MC OF THE SHOW MADE ONE OF THOSE TRITE "THE MUSICIANS ARE ALL STONED ON MARIJUANA" JOKES!!!...WHILE THE REST OF US SMILED...RON TOOK EXCEPTION TO THAT REMARK...AND PROMPTLY SAID...F*@K THIS GUY...AND STARTED TO WALK OFF STAGE!!!..."WHERE THE F*@K YOU GOING RON"...I ASKED???...HIS REPLY!!!..."OUT TO THE GOD-DAMN CAR TO SMOKE A JOINT"!!!...AHH...MEMORIES!!!...STUBASS
By john c (12.2.233.107) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 03:36 pm: |
What Am I Going To Do With Myself by Al Green has a great unprocessed snare sound (Al Jackson on drums?).
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 04:24 pm: |
Allen,
What instrument did you play on Teena's Lovergirl?
By Sly fan (63.207.60.140) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 04:55 pm: |
Bobby..you made a statement that is so profound...
F-ck ART..Lets Dance!!!
Its about the feeling...History will take care of the rest..
Amazing!! I love that "heavy sound", I didnt realize it was the fat end of the sticks they were using..I am still tripping on how Mr.Young would use sanitary pads for the snare drums..amazing...
Peace,
SF
By Sly fan (63.207.60.140) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 04:59 pm: |
Eli: Thanx for the Barry White info..because he would never list his musicians..like I kinda knew Ray Parker Jr. and Joe Sample would play on some of the records but I never knew who their drummer was..the great Ed Green always in the back of my mind..Thanx for ending the mystery..
By Sly fan (63.207.60.140) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 05:02 pm: |
PS: we cannot forget the Godfather's drummers who were the authors of "THE ONE".
The Meters drummer has always been a bad mutha trucker too..Lee Dorsey's "A Lover Was Born" sticks out in my mind right as I write this..
By Eli (172.155.185.125) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 05:23 pm: |
Back in sixties Philly, there was a place called the BR club which featured great r&b acts.
There was a band that came in from South Carolina caled the Fiery Sparks who caused quite a stir there.
They were an interracial aggregation who's drummer, Johnny Sullivan was quite the rage.
They came in and out of town and whenever they appeared I would be there and on one occasion I played there with a local act and I struck up a conversation with Johnny and he said that he was moving to Philly.
Anyway, I had the opportunity of working with him a lot and eventually he joined the Vibrations for a while. He was, at the time one of the FONKIEST cats around and much in the vain of Ziggy Modeliste of the Meters.
In fact, one of out instrumental openers was Sissy Strut!!
Where is Johnny now, I ask????
Also, in the 80's when I was doing a lot of stuff at Atlantic in NYC, producer Joel Dorn, an old Philly friend invited me to play on an album by Janis Segal of Manhattan Transfer and on the date were members of the Meters including Ziggy, Leo and Art and with Ray Brown on bass!!!!
Truly a wonderful experience especially when Janis' mom sent over her god Jewish home cooking....Mmmm!!!!
By Caleb (171.75.84.126) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:46 pm: |
How about Nigel Olsson on all of those 70's Elton John records-Classic!!
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:40 am: |
Caleb,
Great choice. Was a great ballad player. Go back and take a listen to Elton's Honky Cat song and check out Nigels track. Extremely hot but subtle. Nigel should have recieved much more recognition.
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:46 am: |
Mitch Mitchell on Jimi's Fire. That kit sounded just like a drum set sound sound. Open and resonant. You could not only hear the wood but also the metal. Not a tradition rock sound but who's to say what works and what does. (other than the producer)
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:47 am: |
that should have read..Just like a drum set should sound.
By Horse (159.53.238.241) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:49 am: |
doesn't.
Please pardon my typing today.
By . (207.75.182.191) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 03:54 pm: |
I am a drummer as are some of you. And quite frankly the best snare sounds or cymbal sounds or gutar sounds are made by....................the musicain playing them!!!! As contrite as that may sound it is the truth.
Just as a stradivarius in the hands of a novice will sound nothing like a concert master; so too does a drum, any drum, sound best when played by a pro.
I think it is best to tune the drum the way that is comfortable and optimal for the best response, i.e. bounce.
And I am a purist of sorts in that I am in disfavor of digitalization in music. Quite simply it is "cheating" pro-tools is a convenient way to correct musical mistakes. I for one would prefer to correct my own mistakes.
By Allen (24.165.82.46) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 08:10 pm: |
Horse,
I play Bass.
Allen
By DF (24.90.11.4) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 08:51 pm: |
Yogi Horton's synth drums. The only person I ever liked on synth drums.
By Allen (24.165.82.46) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 12:06 am: |
DF,
Yogi Horton was one the most amazing drummers I have ever met. He had a beautiful soul. Watching him play drums was like attending an opera. He was so deliberate and dramatic. His left handedness on a right handed set up through me off initially.
I had never seen anyone with his approach to drumming. He was the first drummer I ever saw who could play one drum, one time in a space of two to four bars and you'd feel like he'd played much more because of where he placed that one drum.
He took me and a couple other musicians under his wing. He tried to school us on the do's and don'ts of road musicianship. Some of the things he taught me are with me to this day. I was so sorry when I heard he'd passed.
Next time you're listening to Luther's "A House Is Not A Home", check out how much space he leaves. So open. So airry. Tempo is more a suggestion than what he actually plays. And watching him play it live was very special.
Thanks Yogi,
Allen
By Allen (24.165.82.46) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 12:14 am: |
oops... Threw me off.
Horse is rubbin off on me.
: )
Allen
By Eli (151.197.217.213) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 07:10 am: |
I read on another site where Hal Blaine, once the most recorded drummer ever and drummer for Phil Spector and may more, is destitute.
He had to sell most of his gold and platinum awards and if it werent for his musicians pension, he would be homeless!!
This article stopped me in my tracks and made me want to make all drum machines self destruct!!
Also regarding Yogi Horton:
I had the pleasure of having him in the studio in NYC many times.
I first met him around 1973 on the Temprees sessions in Philly.
He was the consummate pro.
Unfortunately, he was another victim of the arrival of drum machines.
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 08:14 am: |
Hi all!!
Re: Yogi Horton was a major influence on me and I got a chance to play with him on an album a long time ago called "Born to Laugh at Tornados" by Was(Not Was). We were only teenagers and were working at the Disc (Then called SuperDisc). It was very exciting for us because it was our first time in a major recording studio!!
I adoopted Yogi's Left Handed Right Kit approach and I still use it to this day. And he was very, very friendly to us youngsters that were "wet behind the ears"!! I still remember him giving me a hug and telling me that "I have the touch!!"
When I heard of his unfortunate passing I was in Europe, but it had hurt as if I was right there. But I still can hear him talking to me that day. So I hope I am doing right by you Mr. Horton!
Anyway, if you look for the album, he did a track called "Knocked Down, Made Small (Treated like a Rubber Ball"!)And he kicked ass on it!!
Missing Yogi Horton
Daren Metz
Sony / Studio 4
By drums (155.91.6.72) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 08:19 am: |
Here is a link to the review of the album
http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=16687
not bad for a 16 year old, huh?
Daren
By girlbassplayer1961 (208.8.159.215) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:46 am: |
Don't forget Bobby Durham!
By Horse (159.53.32.41) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 09:53 am: |
Eli,
I noticed there are a few drummers who are honored to be listed as the most recorded drummer in history. I have heard that J.R. Robinson was the most recorded. I know he's been on the scene since 78' as a major session player in L.A. and does a lot of dates out of L.A. Will we ever know who truely carries that honor? Thank God for great drummers and the women who love them..! ;)
By DF (208.27.111.121) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 10:56 am: |
Yogi died the morning of Luther Vandross's 4th night at the Garden in 1987 (Give Me The Reason Tour). I went to the 4th show, and never got to hear him live. Great show, but it wasn't the same. Cats who did see the 1-3rd nights (and who saw Yogi live elsewhere) say that he used to make the Garden shake! RIP
Allen: I thought Buddy Williams (another great drummer) played "House Is Not A Home". I stand corrected.
One of the things I loved about Yogi was his ability to play the ballad. I believe he's up there with Earl Young as the greatest ballad drummer ever (Eli, I know you're lookin' for me. It took a LOT for me to say that!). Anyway, the way he locks with Marcus on tunes "Make Me A Believer" and "Other Side Of The World". What a bass/kick drum groove (both songs). Peace.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 11:22 am: |
Bobby:
To hear that Hal Blaine is in dire straits is troublesome - I wonder if he tried the musicians' union but to have to sell your gold & platinum records because you're broke is sad.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By E GROOVE (151.197.217.213) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 03:12 pm: |
Kev,
Hal receives a pension from the union as all session guys do as long as there is a pension plan built up.
yes is is sad and shocking to read this kind of news.
He once had a house in the Hollywood hils on top of Mulholland Drive and a Rolls Royce.
He went through a bitter divorce and lost it all and moved to the Palm Springs desert.
By Allen (24.24.196.168) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 04:48 pm: |
DF,
You may be right. I guess I assumed it was Yogi because of the way he played it live. Next time I see Marcus, I'll ask.
When I initially met Yogi, the ranger hat he wore threw me off. After a while, it seemed like he'd probably worn it since he was a baby.
I'd heard that he jump out of a hotel room window. I had a hard time reconciling that and chose not to believe that version. I never enquired as to what really happened.
Drums, are you at the Sony facility on the west side? And ... Do you know Greg Fields? (Formerly w/Sinatra)?
I quit the AFM quite a while back. When I asked about their policy on sampling, they basically told me that they gave our labor away.
I played bass on a song called "All Night Long" by The Mary Jane Girls. It was being sampled left and right. When I learned I wouldn't be compensated, I was pissed beyond words.
Luckily for me, I remembered just who our union is. I immediately chilled and never went back.
Allen
By drums (68.80.23.97) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 06:07 am: |
Hi Allen!!
I work at the Sony facility in PA, but I have been to the Red Bldg quite a few times! (The House that Michael Jackson built! ) Anyway, I know Greg and he is an unbelievable drummer and pianist! I wish I could do both!
But on to the more important question. Have people in the industry been fair in paying you for that bass line? EVERYONE has used that All Night Long bass line!! Mary J, Dougie Fresh, Biggie, etc...
Daren Metz
Sony / Studio 4
By drums (68.80.23.97) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 06:18 am: |
OOPS!!! I just read the rest of your paragraph Never mind!!
D
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 03:49 pm: |
Bobby sends in this pic
"Being that this is a drum thread from RIGHT to left are:
Tower of Power drummer David Garibaldi, Bobby Eli,
Trammps keyboardist Fred Vesci and Tower of Power guitarist Jeff Tamalier."
By Eli (151.197.34.9) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 04:09 pm: |
Holy Mary Mother of Jesus, I was sleeping on the set!!!
Somebody pleeeease give the young man a cup of coffee!!
By Allen (24.24.194.28) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 06:27 pm: |
Eli,
Great pic of you and the fella's. Let it be said that you were NOT asleep when the record light was on.
Daren, not a red cent did I get from anyone who used that line. And thinking back, that was the first time I'd ever recorded with a drum machine.
I was accustomed to creating the feel of a song with the drummer. You know how we do. Having to create the feel of that record from nothing but kick snare kick snare, was something I had to learn on the spot.
Plus Rick James was sitting in front of me cracking jokes, which made it even more difficult.
Allen