By Marcel Visser (208.161.232.2) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 02:21 am:

This information reached me after friends of mine had interviewed all people around Sly with the exception of Sly himself. Rumors said that Truman Thomas is a nickname of Sly and that this Truman was a Sly clone. I still believe that Sly recorded for Motown this because I have an unreleased recording of "I feel sanctified" on which I can hear Sly singing.

What do you all think?

Marcel

By HW (68.37.216.164) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 07:23 am:

Sly was popular so a lot of people tried to sound like him.

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 07:57 am:

When I was at Motown, Martha Reeves used to talk about Sly all the time, she was trying to get somebody at Motown to listen to him, nothing never happened. Martha used to say you guys will be sorry.
WELDON

By Rich (162.33.234.91) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 08:48 am:

I believe that Jimmy Ford is the name Sly used not Truman Thomas. The time frame was early 1976. Sly contributed heavily to two Motown albums: The Temptations Wings of Love & as well as his sister Rose (Stone) Banks' album. In addition to being signed to Epic, Sly filed for bankruptcy in late 1975, which I assume gave rise to the pseudonym.

By Rich (162.33.234.91) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 09:01 am:

While I'm at it ...

Bowen was a big fan of Sly & Funkadelic and seems to have worked hard at getting the two groups together. The recording mentioned in Marcel's post sounds like the rumored Billy Bass-Sly Stone-Eddie Hazel version of "I Feel Sanctified" produced by Jeffrey Bowen in 1974

Jeffrey Bowen produced both of the Sly-related albums for Motown that are mentioned above. Many of the songs on the Wings of Love album were written by Bowen-Donald Baldwin-Jimmy Ford. Family Stone members Freddie Stone & Rusty Allen are credited as musicians on the album as is Funkadelic's Billy Bass Nelson.

During Jeffrey's HDH days, when Bowen was managing Ruth Copeland, Jeffrey used Funkadelic as Ruth's touring band on an 18 month tour ('70-'72) supporting Sly & the Family Stone. In fact there were three dates when Ruth/Funkadelic played the entire show because Sly missed the gig.

In 1973 Jeffrey produced a Sly Stone Track (Life & Death) on Chairman of the Board using Funkadelics Billy Bass Nelson, Bernie Worrell, Tiki Fulwood & Donald Baldwin as the musicians on the session.

If you look at the cover of Rose's album I believe (though not named) you'll see circa '75 Sly&TFS band members painted on there (Freddie, Rusty, Pat Rizzo). Billy Nelson also plays on that album as well.

The Sly-Bowen-Funkadelic-Motown connections are clearly present - indicating a stong likelihood of Sly's participation in the sessions for Wings of Love (as Jimmy Ford) and Rose Banks albums.

After Larry Graham left, Sly often recorded his own bass lines ... "China Doll" from Wings of Love may be an example of this.

Another question may be whether or not there any quid-pro-quo ... i.e. write a few songs for The Temptations and we'll give Rose a deal of her own. Sly's popular "I Get High on You" was also included on Rose's album.

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 09:09 am:

Weldon,
I'm pretty sure Norman Whitfield was taking Ms. Reeves' advice and listening to Sly.

Regards,
Ken

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:12 am:

Rich;
Jim Ford is an actual guy - he was a pop/soul/country type singer-songwriter that was part of Sly's entourage during the "Riot Goin On" years. He was affiliated with the band Redbone ; in fact , they backed him on the one album he completed which was called "Harlan County". He's most famous for writing the songs "Niki Hokey" for PJ Proby, "Harry Hippie" for Bobby Womack, and a cool bizarre song Nick Lowe recorded called "36 Inches High". I believe his picture is somewhere in the collage on the back of "Riot Goin On". Maybe Sly used his name for some reason in the mid-70's. The real Jim Ford seems to have vanished so any info you got about him I would appreciate - he's one of those real 'curiosities'.

SteveK

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:32 am:

Ken
you are right, Norman Whitfield, use to talk about Sly produtions, he thought he was one of the better producer of the day. Its more to this story, but far as I know Sly was not on Motown
WELDON

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:51 am:

I remember a quote from an article on Norman Whitfield where it said somthing about how on some of those classic "Psychedelic Soul"-style tracks he was trying to "out-Sly Sly."

Regards,
Ken

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

Truman Thomas was a real person - he played keyboards for Jackie Wilson's road band throughout
the seventies.

He'd earlier made a few solo instrumnental records for Veep including a version of Edwin's
"25 Miles" if I remember rightly.

He died ,apparently of a drug OD, sometimne in the late seventies.

Jim Ford's an interesting character - he's supposed to the person who REALLY wrote "Ode
To Billy Joe" (Bobbie Gentry was his girlfriend at the time). Apart from the "Harlan County"
album (available as a UK CD on Edsel) there's
around half a dozen singles on various obscure
labels including a version of "Crazy Cajun Cakewalk Band" which Redbone did on their first
album - I don't know yet which came first.

By Rich (162.33.234.82) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 12:30 pm:

Steve & Davie - Thanks for the Jimmy Ford info. I'm still with Marcel & believe Sly's still on Wing of Love & Rose Banks LP. I'm debating making a couple inquiries, but its such a pain, to be a pain ... if you know what I'm saying.

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 12:38 pm:

Rich;
Whatever you find out I'll be interested to hear. Maybe Sly WAS using Ford's name for some reason. If not , though , the idea of the guy that wrote Harlan County collaborating with Baldwin and Bowen is pretty intriguing.

Davie;
thanks for the additional Ford info. I'd never heard the 'Ode to Billie Joe' thing before.

SteveK

By DELL (12.14.39.66) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 01:27 pm:

WHERE IS SLY STONE AND LARRY GRAHAM TODAY ?

By Edgar (200.46.132.93) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

Sly Stone is credited on two of the songs from Bonnie Pointer's second self-titled Motown album (M7-929R1, 1979, purple cover): "Jimmy Mack" (footstomps and harp)and "Nowhere To Run" (electric guitar.)

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

DON'T QUITE KNOW AS OF TODAY...BUT BACK IN THE EARLY-MID 90'S...SLY'S GIRLFRIEND WAS A PERSIAN LADY WHO WORKED AS A MANAGER AT BEVERLY HILLS BMW AT THE SAME TIME THAT I WAS RUNNING THE BEVERLY HILLS HONDA AND ACURA DEALERSHIPS ACROSS THE STREET!!!...I SAW HIM IN LINE AT THE LOCAL BANK ON A FEW OCCASSIONS!!!...LARRY GRAHAM (SORRY R&B)...LIVED IN THE TOLUCA LAKE / NORTH HOLLYWOOD AREA FOR MANY YEARS...AND WOULD MOST LIKELY STILL BE IN THAT VICINITY!!!...STUBASS

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

ON THE OTHER HAND EDGAR...IF YOU CAN FIND DORIS DAY (QUE SERA SERA)...WHO WAS LAST SEEN IN THE CARMEL/MONTEREY AREA AT HER BED AND BREAKFAST...YOU COULD POSSIBLY EXPERIENCE A "SLY SIGHTING"!!!...STU

By WaltBaby (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 02:09 pm:

If you want to know where Sly is today, go back and listen to "If You Want Me To Stay" and you'll see that his disappearance was planned long in advance. It's all in the lyrics.

By DELL (12.14.39.66) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

ARE BOTH STONE AND GRAHAM RETIRED FROM MUSIC, DOES EITHER STILL PERFORM

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

Wow Stu! I can't believe you actually saw Sly in the 1990's. I don't believe he gets around much anymore.

Larry Graham toured with Prince Rogers Nelson in the late 1990's and put out a new album in 1999.
So he's still around. I thought I read that Larry & all the other members of Sly & The Family Stone are willing to get back together if Sly himself ever comes around.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 03:23 pm:

Dell,
Sly attempted to tour again in the 1980's. I don't think at that time he was in control of his personal demons, so he was in trouble with the law a few times.
I do have a tape of Sly Stone playing on the old Letterman show from either 1983 or 1984. He still had "it" and probably still can entertain a crowd if he wants to.

-Steve

By Wonder B (80.15.154.213) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 03:29 pm:

Larry toured in Japan in the early 90's with GCS (and George Johnson of the Bros JOhnson fame on guitar)and he came to Europe with GCS in 1996 and 1997... I booked him in a club in Paris and he tore the roof... LOL THis is documented by a double Live CD that came out in Japan in 1990 and a live CD which was sold at the venues during the 1997 tour in Europe... pretty heavy stuff and instant collector items...
I was privileged enough to interview him too and that was one of my dream come true...
As for Sly, many rumours still go 'round... Neftali Santiago told me that he lived a block from Sly's in L.A and that he almost never came out of his house.
Dawn Silva who thanks Sly for hiring her and getting her into the music business (she's on the last 70's Sly LP's) before joining P-Funk and later on Gap Band) say that the man is a genius and she will reveal all in an upcoming autobiography. She told me she saw Sly a couple of times in the late 90's and that he still records although all the tapes end up on shelves around his home. Her theory is that after having reached the pinnacle of success with The Family Stone, he's so afraid of rejection (if he'd put out some material today), that he decided to keep everything secret and live like that...

Wonder B

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 03:53 pm:

Here's a link to Freddie Stone's web site. It has a picture (2001) of all members of Sly & the Family Stone less Sly.

http://www.stonecisum.com/

By Sly fan (67.115.73.2) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 05:04 pm:

James and Sly were definetly way ahead of their time in the sense of prodution and just being plain visionaries...


It is legend that int the early 70's Berry Gordy would flaunt the the "STAND" lp in quality control meetings..Praising the release as the "next wave"....


Also Sly was involved heavily with the Parliament Funkedelic movement, there are recordings with them and Sly such as "The Funk Is Getting Stronger" (which also includes the late great Roger Troutman)and also check for the second release of Joe Hicks on Enterprise Records..Sly is written all over that album...

Little known fact...Shuggie Otis (another genius along with his great father) is solely responsible for Sly's new guitar playing style on the "Riot" lp and then on...


FOREVER SLY..The ULTIMATE VISIONARY...

By Rich (162.33.235.41) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 09:51 am:

Another hot thread!!

Go on about Shuggie Sly fan, I never knew that there was a connection but as soon as I thought about what you wrote it made sense, there's definite stylistic change that fits Shuggie's sound to a "T". Sly began doing lot of his own bass with "Riot" something that increased noticably after Larry left.

"Hydraulic Pump" is the other Sly/Funkadelic cut. Recorded with them in 1980 when they were both signed to Warner Brothers. Sly joined Parliament-Funkadelic on their final tour - 1981's World's Greatest Funk Tour, before they cameback as the P-Funk All-Stars in '83. "Cool Joe" from Clinton's R&B SKELETONS LP might just be about Sylvester hisself.

Nice grab Edgar - Once again there's a Sly Stone, Funkadelic (Eddie Hazel) & Motown/HDH (Jeffrey Bowen) connection on those sessions for Bonnie's 2nd album for Motown.

Wonder B - where you think you at boy? LOL
You gonna name check Dawn (original Bride of Funkenstein) & Neftali (Mandrill drummer), Trouitman (Zapp) you better give some of these folks a point of refernce. This ain't one nation.

Peace

By Flynny (81.135.14.202) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 09:56 am:

The Jeffey Bowen mentioned, is that the same guy who had a solo release in the mid 60's on Mercury, "I'll get by (All by myself)"?

By Sly fan (64.169.106.177) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 05:00 pm:

Thanx a mil Rich!! Yes, Shuggie and Sly were pretty tight.. From what I am told by close friends and associates of both parties..they use to vibe out in the legendary Paramount Studios in LA (where Johnny "Guitar" Watson recorded all of his albums, hint, hint) and just record and..lord knows how bad I wanna hear those reels (if they can find them). Plus if you really wanna hear Shuggie influence..just listen to his 2ndn release on Epic called "Inspiration: Information"..they have re-released it on CD with bonus tracks...Shuggie is an unsung hero without a question. That album brought tears to my eyes its that strong.

Re: Bonnie Pointer's album,I tripped out when I read Sly's name on there too, Jeffery B. was the man!! another great writer/producer!!

By Sly fan (64.169.106.177) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 05:01 pm:

correction: 2nd release.

By Wonder B (80.15.154.204) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 06:01 pm:

My bad Rich LOL LOL
OK I'll be more 'precise' in the future... LOL
But the knowledge here is so amazing that I thought everybody would know who I was talking about... LOL

Wonder B

By 1Wicked (24.126.64.120) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:33 pm:

A post-Family Stone band member tells me that it seems that Sly went low profile (even more than usual) during Momma Stone's illness and passing...and Sly apparently had his own health issues that he refused to see a Dr. about. (Nothing related to his past demons...)

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 08:25 am:

Steve,

It is the same Jim Ford who wrote "Harlan County"
who is the co-writer on those Temptations and Rose Banks tracks.

They're all listed by BMI under the name "James
Henry Ford"

There's also a batch of songs listed separately
under "Jim Ford" including one co-written with
Joe Hicks who was yet another guy who hung out
at Sly Stone's house.

I'm working on trying to identify how many of his songs have been recorded - if all the songs listed
under "Jim Ford" are by the THE Jim Ford it looks
as if his writing career started earlier than has
been previously thought.

Davie

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 08:33 am:

Flynny,

I've wondered about that record myself - My feeling is "yes" but it's just intuition, I
haven't seen anthing written to say either way.

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:29 pm:

Thanks for the info , Davie !! I didnt think to check the BMI site for Jim Ford.

Steve K

By Bob Olhsson (12.93.83.247) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 04:34 pm:

Norman was utterly taken with Sly.

A lot of Motown artists probably knew a great deal about Sly because he was a top DJ in San Francisco, as big as Ernie-D or Martha Jean were in Detroit.

By Sly fan (67.119.52.244) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 05:55 pm:

quite interesting..I have TV interviews with Sly constantly making reference to a "Jimmy Ford"....

KSOL was the station he DJ'd.