By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.81) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 06:40 am:

I am a total Sax Freak(sax I said)
or rather
a Lover of
The Honker's.

We dont seem to talk a lot about the Sax men too much,apart from the obvious true Legends like Mr.Mike Terry,
and rightly so.
My faves in my personal collection are Mike Terry,Gene Barge,King Curtis,as well as a lot more great Horn blowers.
Especially those
awesome honking breaks that are featured in Bootin'RnB sides such as the classic break in
Paul Guytens superb instrumental of
'Driving Home'
Listen to those horns blowing the roof's apart on the intro on Big Joe's
'shake,rattle and roll'.

Over a lot of years now,
I have been compiling names of various Sax men and where I can have also been able to tape or obtain the actual 45s.

Obviously the list is endless,
I would appreciate any info on anyones experiences with regards any Honkers, be it playing themselves or seeing them live.

I will never forget seeing the awesome
Junior Walker
for the very first time.
At an all-nighter as he blew the crowd away with his amazing repotoire(spelling?)But went that step further as he lay down fully on his back and didnt miss a beat.
For a young kid of 14,
this was a total and instantly mind blowing experience.
Even up to when I saw and met Snake Davis at another all-nighter in the 90's,for me this has always been my no.1 instrument.

Here's a few names that I have
listened to and am still listening to today(forever)from over my personal 32+years since hearing my first ever soul record.
(Will leave the Rare/Northern and Motown Players for now)
Let's Go Back in Time,
with

Big Jay McNeeley(awesome).
Eddie'Lockjaw'Davis(count Basie's band).
Paul Gonsalves(Duke Ellington's band).
Sam The Man Taylor(Lucky Millinder's Band+also with Cab Calloway's band).
Arnett Cobb(Lional Hampton's band).
John Coltrane(Mile's Davis band).
Gene Ammon's(yessss)with(Billy Eckstine's band).
James Moody(Dizzy Gillespie's band).
Illinois Jaquet(Lional Hampton band).
WHO WAS THE FOUNDER OF THE HONKING SCHOOL.
(any info regards more on above appreciated)
Rudi Pompanelli(a Bill Haley Comet).
Clifford Scott and his legendary piece on Bill Doggett's Gem 'Honky Tonk'.
Willis 'Gatortail'Jackson.
The Bird(say no more).
Earl Bostic.
Maxwell Davis(with B.B.King's band).
Joe Lutcher.
Cannonball Adderley.
Red Prysock.
Sil Austin.
Sam Butera.
Sonny Stitt.
King Curtis.
Louis Jordan.
King Kolax.
Ace Cannon.
Roland Kirk.
etc,etc.
And I havent even mentioned any Rare/northern cuts or those well known
Memphis Session Men
as well as so so many others.

Well then,
can anyone contribute with anything about there Special SAX moments.
Who are the Honking Sax Wailers of today?
I bet that magical city of Detroit(and philly,chicago,memphis etc)all have there acts keeping the
Jive Dive's
all alive
with those awesome blowers of
Tenor,
Alto,
Bass,
Soprano
or the awesome sounding deep Baritone Sax.
Whatever
and Whoever
I for one Salute you all.

Mel(having a sax attack).

By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 08:18 am:

Mel,

Having a sax attack is a good thing, to paraphrase Ornette Coleman, who, like Coltrane, got his start in R&B bands, 'You can really get to people's souls with a B-flat blues on the tenor sax...'.
Yeah you right about Jean Baptiste Illinois Jacquet starting the 'honking' school.

Detroit had and still has some fine blues oriented players who could 'walk the bar' with the best of them.
Charlie Gabriel, a man from New Orlean who settled here in 1948, (and who I'm going to hear tonite at Baker's) was known as Charlie G and was a bad mutha when he played the blues.
Likewise George Benson, formerly of King Porter's band, who today can play a slow blues that makes your soul tingle.
Don't forget the late Charles "Lefty" Edwards, especially on Todd Rhodes sides like "Rocket 69" and "Your Daddy's Doggin' Around". It's too much man!
Paul "Hucklebuck" Williams was the tops on baritone or alto for gut wrenching solo power.
"Sweet Lou" Barnett, also with Rhodes' band could honk when the spirit moved him...he used to be featured locally with the Sun Messengers (I know RJ remembers those days) on "Cornbread" and "Pot Likker".

PS--add Whistlin' Joe McPhee, tenor with Lloyd Lambert's band, to your list.
But Bird, the king of any reed instrument, rarely touched a tenor.

By Eli (151.197.42.107) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 10:14 am:

Back in the day, I was in a "bar band" fronted by Tommy Cook or "New Brunswick Chuck" as I called him for he loved Chuck Jackson and the bar was in New Brunswick New Jersey.
The sax man was none other than Sonny Fortune who became a jazz great!!

By paulie3shoes (151.197.42.107) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 10:16 am:

eh, paulie (over here)
my man kenny g, he got sul an can honk, specialy wen he blows his nose, kenny can blow, capice??@#$%^&*(

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 10:44 am:

Jackson , Michigan's own Benny Poole - still sounding good (as recently as a couple years ago, anyway).

SteveK

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.46) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 11:26 am:

Hey Fella's,
many thanks for all the great stuff.
Jim
apologies to you sir,
how I didnt put Paul'Hucklebuck'Williams on there is a mystery.
I always look out for your very informative posts Jim.
Many thanks.

Bobby
you never cease to amaze me.
especially with knowing a guy like Paulie.
oops,sorry.
a guy like
Mr.3 Shoes.

Steve
thanks for that name,
one I shall be looking out for as well as a few mentioned by Jim and also Sonny Fortune named by Bobby.

Very much appreciated
Mel(playing Sax on the Tracks)

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 11:41 am:

Hey Mel; What about the mellow guys with the plantive wail besides the honkers?
Lester "Prez"Young, Ben Webster, David "Fathead"newman, Hank Crawford, and so on...
S.S.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 11:44 am:

Forgot our own T.K. Blue (aka: Talib Kibwe). T.K. not only plays a mean sax but he also plays a mellow flute!

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 11:55 am:

MEL: YOU MENTION SOME GREAT ONE'S BUDDY...AND I SEE THAT YOU TOSSED SOME JAZZ GREATS INTO THE MIX!!!...ONE NAME YOU MENTION...EDDIE "LOCKJAW" DAVIS...RIGHT FROM THE BE-BOP ERA...IF YOU GET A CHANCE CHECK OUT HIS SAX DUO ALBUM WITH JOHNNY GRIFFIN!!!...COLTRAIN AND CHARLIE (YARDBIRD) PARKER ARE AMONG THE BEST FROM THE PROGRESSIVE JAZZ MOVEMENT..."YARDBIRD" BEING THE TRUE "TORMENTED GENIUS"!!!...TWO GUYS THAT YOU HAVEN'T MENTIONED...BUT HAVE PROBABLY HEARD MORE OF THAN YOU WOULD REALIZE...ARE PLAZ JOHNSON (GREAT STUDIO TENOR PLAYER FROM THE 50'S AND 60'S)...THEME FROM "THE PINK PANTHER" IS ONE OF HIS CREDITS!!!...ALSO...TOP STUDIO MAN FROM L.A. WHO PLAYS VIRTUALLY EVERY MAJOR SESSION IS ERNIE WATTS...HE'S "DA MAN" OUT HERE!!!...STU

By Jim Dunn (24.46.200.124) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 12:15 pm:

Here's a couple of Jazz greats to add to the mix, Sonny Rollins and Paul Desmond.
In an R&B vein, there's a nice CD that was put out by Sequel titled "Saxophony". It features Jimmy Wright, Buddy Lucas, Jesse Powell and the Rene Hall Sextette with Buddy Tate on lead Sax.

Jim

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 01:41 pm:

HEY MEL,GREAT THREAD BUT YOU HAD ME FOR MINUTE THERE AT THE BEGINNING[WHEW]ONE SLIP OF THE KEYS AND RALPH WOULD'VE HAD TO CENSOR IT!HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!!

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 01:45 pm:

OH AND GETTING BACK TO THE S-A-X,I LIKE JR.WALKER AND I REMEMBER A GUY THAT PLAYED IN THE HOUSE BAND AT THE HOWARD CALLED..STRINGBEAN WHO WAS GREAT WITH THE SAX!

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.10) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 02:12 pm:

Hey Soulsister,
the more the better,
all forms hit the spot.
Cheers Stu,
I saw a documentary once about the world of Jazz,that featured a lot of artists that I was once totally ignorant about.
And man was my world totally and rightfully kicked into order.
Miles Davis was a genius along with a lot of names that I had heard of but was as I say so ignorant about that I would just dismiss them and any Jazz material in general.
Until this documentary had me literally up and really getting into there rythmn.
Boy was I ever wrong.
Even when Traditional jazz was featured the tempo was really flowing.I always related jazz as a moody and depressing form of music full stop.
Really shows how I was wearing blinkers all the time.
The Bird came on and blew me away.
I am not sure but I think he or Miles Davis were jamming along with Dizzy Gillespie and band and the actual tempo was a good uptempo beat.
At last
the good Lord took away my blinkers and I was then beginning my journey into a form of Jazz that I could relate with.

Obviously the names all mentioned
above are new to me,as those mentioned by Soulsister,
Newman and young apart,totally new.
As are those mentioned by Stu and Jim Dunn.
This is what a site like this is all about,for me anyway.
All the great wealth of knowledge being passed on to a learned and grateful novice as myself.

My head is now shaped like one of those in the film Coneheads as I try to take it all in and find yet more space.

Many thanks to one and all
and most of all
many thanks for sharing your knowledge.
But although I Love all the forms of Saxes,
for me,it's got to be the deep and honking
Baritone.
Has anyone on here heard of
Dave Mitchell
and the Screamers
or
Saxie Russell?

The rare/northern punters know as they have had sounds played on the scene.
And I still have them today.
But thats another totally different story.
Honking on out of here
Mel
alias
King Rootn'Tootin'(forR&B)hee hee.

By MEL&THEN SOME (212.159.51.39) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 04:06 pm:

This small paragraph is taken from
Arnold Shaw's superb book
titled
Honkers and Shouters
The Golden Years of Rhythm&Blues.

In 1949 Savoy released an instrumental recording entitled
"Deacon's Hop"
composed by
Cecil J. McNeely.

This was also recorded by him
as "Big Jay McNeely".

It did not make the charts,but it exploited a sound,
present also in the Paul Williams disk and in McNeely's earlier Savoy recordings of "35-30" in '47 and "Waxie Maxie" in '48,
that had come to identify R & B.

As the acoustic guitar and wheezing "harp" epitomized the blues,
So were there few R&B Disks without a screaming tenor sax solo like that heard on Hal Singer's "Cornbread"another chartmaking Savoy instrumental of '48.or Joe Houston's "all nite long"(Modern Records).
Less frequently heard on record was the honking tenor,
though one can hear a brief,low three-note repetition and freak high notes on the tenor solo in Hank Ballard's
"finger-poppin'time".

Now this is where it say's it all for me personally!
I Cannot recall the name of the Harlem joint where I first encountered the phenomenon.
It might have been Joe Well's Upstairs Room,Jock's Place(formerly The Yeah Man),or the Shalimar-all on 7th Avenue in the 1940's.
(Here it comes)
But when we came into the smoke filled room,we could hear a loud Tenor Sax
on which the performer kept honking one low note.
The honking had no particular rhythm;
it was just repeated at intervals.

Just as we sat down,
the Saxist switched to a very high note and kept screeching thay one note that seemed an interminable interval.
What confused us
as we began to see through the curtain of smoke was that there was no sax player visible on the small bandstand.

But then we discovered,
not without some amazement(I'll say)
that the Saxist was lying on his back and kicking his feet in the air as he "played",like a small child having a tantrum.(wow,and then some).

The performer could have been Big Jay,though the incident goes back too far for me to recall.

(Disk Jockey Norm Nite recalls that in stage appearances,"all the house lights would be extinguished and then Big Jay McNeely's band would begin to play,fluorescent lights reflecting off their shirts,
while Jay
Lay down on the stage
and played.")

SAY NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mel(once on trhe floor,finds it hard to just get up)

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 05:24 pm:

Hey Mel, You just took me down memory lane I was in some of those clubs in Harlem back in the 60s, such as Wells, Shalimar, also Minton's, Small's Paradise, Baby Grand, & Palm Cafe, after Apollo, then after that it was to Well's Chicken & Waffles for breakfast, those were crazy but fun times! I guess I was one wild child back then.
Lester Young whom Billie Holiday named "Prez"(he named her Lady) was the man in the 40s. Ben Webster played with the greats, I think Gates band was one. Fathead & Crawford was the Ray Charles Band, they also played on some of Jimmy's recordings, are solo acts in their own right today. T.K. played with Randy Weston before Joining Jimmy's Jazz Expressions, is well known and played with everyone too as well as solo recordings.
As Always, S.S.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.102) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 05:39 pm:

Soulsister,
you keep on blowing me away with your vast wealth of knowledge etc.
I bet you had some crazy times,and rightly so.
It's great hearing from the various people that have actually been there at some of the times that are talked about.

I'm flipping just reading this stuff,
I always look forward to your post's Soulsister
Keep on Keeping On
Best
mel(andthensome).

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 06:13 pm:

Mel(and then a whole lot of some), it's good to know I have a couple of Soul Friends out there.
Your vast knowledge of rare goodies & lost gems blows me away!!~!!
Yeah my story is funny, crazy, & misguided in some ways, I still treasure the music & the good memories anyway, whatever was going on back then I have to blame it on my youth but I wouldn't trade much of my experiences & soul scene times for anything! It's always been in my blood I guess I'd have to say. Where soul happenings were I had to be there no matter what! I made alot of friends and met some creeps too along the way.
Thats how I got my name Soul Sister, some of the cats would call me Soul Sister or their Little Soul Sister. I had forgotten that for a long time, then one day I was looking through some of my old albums signed by The Jive Five and thats the way most of them signed it in 1966.
One time I left a perfectly good job on Wall Street knowing I would get fired just to go up to the Apollo when James Brown was recording his live album there in 1967, didn't care what the consiquence was as long as I was there, had to be there!
Just a few of my escapades of a very long story.
Soul Sister '66
Andthensome(Ha-Ha).

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.93) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 10:50 pm:

Hey Soulsister,
a lot of what you say above also sounds a lot like the early days of mine regards going to my first all-nighters.
I have had a lot of great times,with some of the craziest brother's and sister's that were around then.
I was a very young 14yr old at my first all-nighter but was in the company of veterens aged at least 10 yrs older.
Mainly due to the fact that they were my older brothers co-horts.
And only realising years later that was why they put up with me I guess,as these experienced club goers from around 1966 up to 1973 when I went were in there own way watching out for me be it on the quiet.

Mind you these were also no angels
and were well known anyway.So just being around them got me away with a lot of hassle.
Even today a good few of them still frequent a club and can still hit the floor and turn it on.

I was even engaged to be married but the Lady was not into the scene in any way.And after being engaged and deciding on a date etc,I was now instead of starting the week-ends on the thursdays to Sunday was suddenly cold turkeying with not being there.

So obviously,
after a hard and deep think about how all this would end up after being married,
The Good Lord guided me in the right direction and told me to call the whole proceedings off and to get back where I so rightly belonged(on the dancefloor).

I could tell you a lot of crazy experiences and like yourself
wouldnt change a thing if I could.
And like you also said,
it's in the blood.

Mind you it could of been a different story altogether as my eldest brother at that time(now deceased)was a big Hawkwind and Roxy music fan.
Thank God
I went with the musical tastes of my other brother.
Anyway Soulsister
wont bore you and put others through my boring tales,
Must go,as I need all the energy I can get these day's before another all-nighter.
Mel(thankfully not with Virginia plain or in a silver machine).

By StingBeeLee (68.43.130.52) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 10:54 pm:

Coleman Hawkins, I believe, put the Sax on the map. Before he came, it was sortof an odd instrument, rarely played. But after he came and blew his sax, everbody else knew it was OK. He would take on any and all comers, well into his 60's!!

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.93) on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 11:02 pm:

StingBingLee,
yet another great name that for some reason I forgot to mention.
Cheers
mel.

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 05:21 am:

Hi Mel - let's not forget Detroit's tenor-sax-playing ex-Motown band leader, Choker Campbell.
Graham

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.18) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:13 am:

Say no more Graham.
mel.

By Rasputin (68.42.158.155) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:29 am:

Rather local, but well known and appreciated .... Detroit's claim of Larry Smith.

btw: Larry recently had a stroke, which sidelined him. Your prayers and well wishes are needed.

The Mad Monk ....

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.1) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:47 am:

Rasputin
please tell Larry that were all thinking of him
and wish a speedy recovery.
mel.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.1) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:50 am:

Graham,
can you(or anyone)
tell me how Mr.Campbell came about with the nickname of
"choker".
thanks
mel.

By Jim G (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

One of the most soulful players I've ever heard is Yusef Lateef...the father of World Music. Many of his recordings have beautiful tenor solos.
One can only imagine what hearing his band at Klein's Show Bar was like...
The strength of his music is a direct reflection of the strength of his character.

And, depending on how far back we want to take this thread, while Coleman Hawkins indeed rose to the top of the tenor charts, he was but one of many who played hot tenor in the twenties.
Happy Caldwell, Prince robinson, Bud Freeman could cut the mustard, but no one had the creative horsepower of Hawk, one of our music's first great soloists (along with Louis and Bechet).

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (212.159.54.237) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 01:03 am:

Jim G
Great stuff Sir,
We can go back as far as anyone likes
the later the better,
all great to see and learn about.
with thanks
mel.

By Jim G (64.12.97.7) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 10:05 pm:

Thanks for starting the thread, Mel.
The guys I mentioned recorded, Lester Young and God knows how many others didn't until years after they started to play. Who knows how great they sounded in the twenties?

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 10:19 pm:

JIM: YUSEEF LATEEF WAS INDEED A GREAT WOODWIND PLAYER...BUT IT'S INTERESTING...IN THAT MOST OF HIS STUFF THAT I LISTENED TO IN THE 70'S AND 80'S FEATURED HIM ON FLUTE MORE-SO THAN TENOR SAX!!!...STUBASS

By RJ Spangler (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 02:56 am:

Damn, so MANY cool sax guys! Did Bullmoose Jackson make our list here? How about Maxwell Davis,Lynn Hope, Jack McVea, Sammy Buterra, Paul Quinechette, Preston Love, Hershall Evans, Noble Watts, Cannonball, Cleanhead, Stitt, Cliff Soleman, Purvis Henson....??? Damn, who was guy that Trane played with (besides Cleanhead?)...an alto sax guy that did "Flamingo"? I gotta look for that LP. Stubass, Yusef is and was a GREAT flute player, but he authered a book on blues for sax! My pal Steve Wood has this book! Yusef played plenty of bluesy stuff with Cannonballs group for sure. Jim, I saw Yusef many times get down on the blues at Bakers back in the '70s. You mentioned "Sweet" Lou...I'll never forget him and either will Steig, T-Bone Paxton, James O'Donnell or Paul Carey (Bauhof). Before hanging with him I was an moderist...after playing with him I started looking back and never quit. I am sure many of you here have read "Honkers and Shouters" by Arnold Shaw. If not, as Andrew Hill sez "GITIT"!

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 03:41 am:

Gotta mention J.T. Brown... Plas Johnson... Red Tyler... Lee Allen... and THE ONE AND ONLY Jimmy Wright.

By RD (63.188.33.42) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 07:54 am:

Soul Sister do you know the whereabouts of Richard Fisher who sang with a later edition of the Jive Five? He sported a bald head before bald heads were cool. Did you know him or did he come after your acquaintance with the group. His brother, Jesse Fisher (deceased) lived and recorded in Cleveland for Way Out and So Jamm Records.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.89) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 08:15 am:

Great,great stuff,
RJSpangler
thanks for mentioning
Bullmoose Jackson,
I thought I mentioned him but never,thanks to one and all for all these fine names
keep them coming
please!
mel.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.109) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 09:03 am:

I would say that a good 75%
of my rare/northern soul records contain a mean Sax break in them.
And would love to know who the actual guy's were/are on each track.
But obviously this would take forever.

Let alone all the Bootin'RnB sax men and all the other's.
But I must mention
Gene Barge and the various cut,s he is on regards Chess records alone.
Personally
I put him up there with Mike Terry.

Here's a few other's that
feature on some 45's of mine.

Saxie Russell(what a name)
Jimmy Castor.
Dave Mitchell&The Screamers.
Boot's Randolph.
Willie Mitchell.
Mike and Ike.
The Memphis Horns.
Lord Thunder.
Wilbur Reynolds&The Masters.

The list is endless.
mel.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.109) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 09:13 am:

Earl Bostic
'blows a fuse'
and
'8.45 Stomp'
mel.

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 09:39 am:

Alas, I tend more towards the Stan Getz school of jazz sax, and probably the most influential sax player I ever knew (I played clarinet in school) was my uncle, who toured with the Casa Loma orchestra in the '40's, and tried--and failed--to teach me how to play the sax. There was a practice band called "The Saxaphone Band" in the Detroit area in the mid '60's. Anyone know of any recordings?

Having said that, I looked through the list and didn't see a mention of Clarence Clemons, the driving force behind the early E Street Band.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 09:48 am:

RD: I did know him during his short temporary tenure with the group but I'm afraid to have to tell you it was one of the worst memories of my life. My thought is if I can't say anything good about a person it's better not to say anything at all, the past is dead and buried in so far as any negative stuff goes for me and that was a lifetime ago when I was young and very naiive. There was nothing personal beytween he & I, I was interested in another. If you'd like to know the true facts relating to my experience involving him then please send me your E-Mail address and I'd be happy to be candit with you, I simply feel its too personal to post publicly.
I certainly don't want to burst yours or anyone else's bubble who may admire him.
Thank You with all sincerity, S.S.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 09:57 am:

RD'He was from Cleveland and from what Webb Harris told me about twenty years ago he was living in Cleveland then, Webb was one of the good guys though I haven't seen him in years. He was living in Harlem, his father worked at the Teresa Hotel. He last told me he was going to see his mother in Cleveland, so he too could be here,don't know(?) I've only saw "Sam" (Eugene Pitt) in recent years. S.S.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 10:14 am:

MOST "GIMMICKY" SAXAPHONIST...EDDIE HARRIS...AND HIS ELECTRIC THING...ALTHOUGH HE DID PERFORM SOME NICE COMPOSITIONS (GROOVED ON "COMPARED TO WHAT" AND "LISTEN HERE")...BUT HIS AMPLIFICATION TECHNIQUES SORT OF TOOK HIM AWAY FROM HIS ROOTS!!!.. GIVE HIM CREDIT THOUGH FOR STRIKING ON SOMETHING THAT WAS A BIT DIFFERENT AT THE TIME AND MADE HIM STAND OUT A BIT FROM MANY OF THE OTHER JAZZ GREATS DURING THE 60'S AND 70'S!!!...STUBASS

By RJ Spangler (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 04:30 am:

Eddie Harris was way more than the gimmicks, that man was a helluva player! A real gent too. Someone above mentioned Willie Mitchell -- I am pretty sure he played trumpet and is now more of studio owner/producer. I worked with him on a project once. He is the cat behind the Al Green sound as far as horns go. Furry --I forgot about Red Tyler ! Badass! Ever hear Herb Hardesty? Earl Bostic, THATS the guy I was trying to remember! He did "Flamingo"! Trane said he was a hell of a sax player as far as sound and technique go, plus all that soul. Plas Johnson is cool too, how about Red Hollaway with McDuff? I have an Etta James record with Red and Cleanhead! So many cats....

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:33 am:

RJ: GRANTED THAT EDDIE HARRIS WAS INDEED A FINE PLAYER...NO ARGUMENT HERE...BUT THE ELECTRIFICATION OF HIS INSTRUMENT WAS INDEED SOMETHING DIFFERENT...AND HE TOOK FULL ADVANTAGE OF WHAT SEPERATED HIM FROM HIS CONTEMPORARIES OF YESTERYEAR!!!...ALSO MEL: YOU STARTED THIS THREAD TALKING ABOUT SAX "MEN"!!!...THERE ARE SOME TALENTED SAX "WOMEN"!!!...ONE OF NOTE...NORMA JEAN BELL...WHO HAS WORKED WITH THE LIKES OF STEVIE WONDER...FRANK ZAPPA...AND MANY...MANY OTHERS!!!...OH...BY THE WAY...SHE ALSO WORKED WITH THE INCREDIBLE "STUBASS" AND BAND DURING THE LATE 60'S!!!...NORMA IS VERY TALENTED!!!...WHAT OTHER FEMALE SAX PLAYERS CAN ANYONE THINK OF???...STU

By Jim G (12.47.224.12) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 11:59 am:

Stu, it never ceases to amaze me how much you've done. You played with Norma Jean Bell too!!??!!
Damn! She's a fine saxophonist.

Eddie Harris: different, yes, gimmicky, Nope.
The distinction in his case, or Roland Kirk's case, is that the differences were supported by a superior musical intelligence.

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 01:33 pm:

THANKS JIM: I AMAZE MYSELF SOMETIMES...NOT WITH WHAT I'VE DONE SO MUCH...BUT THE MANY MANY FINE PEOPLE THAT I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH IN VARIOUS ENDEAVORS!!!...AS FOR EDDIE HARRIS!!!...I DEFINITLY NEVER MEANT TO INFER THAT HE WAS ANYTHING LESS THAN A FINE MUSICIAN WITH A GREAT MUSICAL LEGACY...HOWEVER...MANY TALENTED MUSICIANS...AS PART OF A LARGE POOL OF SIMILARLY TALENTED MUSICIANS...SOMETIMES SEEK OUT SOMETHING THAT WILL SET THEM APART FROM ALL THE OTHERS...IN AN EFFORT TO GAIN SOME NOTORIETY AND ATTENTION WHICH CAN HELP LEAD TO THEIR OWN COMMERCIAL SUCCESS!!!...I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASE WITH EDDIE HARRIS...BUT THE AMPLIFICATION EXPERIMENTATION...CERTAINLY DID NOTHING TO HURT HIS EXPOSURE TO A NEW GENERATION OF JAZZ ENTHUSIASTS!!!...AS FOR ROLAND KIRK...WHAT CAN YOU SAY...EXCEPT THAT HE WENT *WAY* OUT THERE IN HIS OWN UNIQUE FORM OF EXPERIMENTATION...AND TO A LARGE EXTENT...GAINED AN IDENTITY...WHERE STAYING IN THE TRADITIONAL MODE...HE COULD HAVE BECOME LIKE THAT "MULLERS SPAGHETTI"..."LOST IN THE SAUCE"!!!...REGARDS...STUBASS

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 05:16 pm:

RJ, I forgot to mention Herb Hardesty. He's one of the best! Love the Fats Domino stuff he did.

By RJ Spangler (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:22 pm:

Yeah SR, I saw that Fats Domino band may times in NOLA...Herb, LEE ALLEN (!), and Roger, who now plays bari with the Dirty Dozen Brass Band. It seems to me there was one more tenor man I am forgetting... Lee was one of the real greats of R&B!!!!!

Woman on sax (besides Norma)...how about Vi Redd? I am guessing only Jim G knows who she is around here, but I could be wrong.

Back to Eddie Harris: that cat was a heck of a player (ever here his "Theme From Exidus"?). No gimmicks, just great playing. He wrote cool tunes too, like "Freedom Jazz dance" which Miles recorded. "Swiss Movenment" with les McCann is a legendary record. Real soul/jazz at its very best.

(Nothing to do with sax here: Jim G, I am reading the Red Callender book. Ever check it out? I got a singed copy from a dealer in Chicago)

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:34 pm:

HEY GUYS: APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS RE/GIMMIKRY...AND UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM!!!...ONCE AGAIN...EDDIE HARRIS WAS A FINE TENOR PLAYER GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BE-BOP ERA!!!...THE ONE POINT THAT I WAS TRING TO MAKE...AS ONE CHOOSES TO GO A "DIFFERENT ROUTE"...IF YOU COMPARE IT TO A MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHER...WHO SPENT 10-15 YEARS THROWING 97 MPH FASTBALLS (HOPE YOU GUYS ARE SPORTS FANS)...AND ALL OF A SUDDEN...THE OL FASTBALL IS DOWN TO 92 MPH...STILL FAST...BUT YOUNG GUYS COMING UP (THE NEW COMPETITION) ARE THROWING 97 MPH...AND THE OL PRO...WHILE STILL GREAT...HAS TO COME UP WITH SOME NEW PITCHES (CURVEBALL...SLIDER...SCREWBALL) TO KEEP THE HITTERS OFF BALANCE...AND HIS JOB IN THE STARTING ROTATION!!!...SAME WITH MUSICIANS...AS TIME GOES BY...MORE AND MORE ARTISTS COME ALONG...ALL COMPETING FOR THAT ENTERTAINMENT DOLLAR...AND "ARTISTRY ASIDE"...THESE GUYS GOT FAMILIES TO FEED...RENT TO PAY...AND CAR PAYMENTS TO MAKE...SO IT'S NATURAL FOR ONE OF THESE GUYS TO TRY TO COME UP WITH *SOMETHING* TO HELP KEEP THEM AHEAD OF THE PACK...SO TO SPEAK (I'VE SEEN THIS PHENOMENON MANY TIMES IN BOTH MUSIC AND SPORTS)!!!...PLUS...NOT BEING A SAX PLAYER...I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IT'S EASIER ON THE CARDIO-VASCULAR SYSTEM TO BLOW THROUGH AMPLIFICATION AS OPPOSED TO STRAIGHT OUT...VEIN BULDGEING...NECK EXPANDING...BLOWING!!!...JUST MY TAKE...IF IT MAKES ANY SENSE AT ALL!!!...STUBASS

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 07:38 pm:

Mel,

Once in a while I play at this pro jam deal in Los Angeles. I've seen this guy several times and lately got to talking. He's a very nice guy and has chops like you wouldn't believe. His name is Joe Houston. Come to find he's done alot of recordings primarily in LA, since the 40's. He must be 70 now, but, can still BLOW, sing, lead a band and bring the house down.



http://www.masterdigital.com/examples/data/scd-16.html

http://www.artistdirect.com/music/artist/bio/0,,445814,00.html?artist=Joe+Houston

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.117) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 09:33 am:

Great stuff Larry.
mel.

By Eli (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 04:50 pm:

There is a FABULOUS book caled Honkers and Shouters which covers al of the post was R&B artists and labels of the genre.
The book may be out of print but if you can get a hold of it, E bay possibly , it is the Bible of the genre.

By Jim G (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 06:03 pm:

Good post, Bobby.
Arnold Shaw's book offers a wealth of detail concerning the rise of R&B, key artists in the genre, significant recordings and in-depth interviews.
The background research is excellent and the entire 'scene' is placed firmly into context.
A great work whose only shortcoming is the omission of the Detroit connection (save for a brief mention of Todd Rhodes).

By RJ Spangler (64.12.97.7) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 12:40 am:

hey fellas...I mentioned that book several posts up! As I said then "GIT IT"! -RJ

By bubba (205.188.209.109) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 12:04 pm:

wuz dat honkers or honkies??

By Jim G (12.47.224.12) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 12:39 pm:

On this thread, bubba, it is Honkers.

By knuckles (217.14.178.118) on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 01:56 pm:

wuz dat bubba or knobhead??

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 03:53 pm:

Great BB King image comes in from Graham