By Julain (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 01:31 am:

Can anyone print or direct me to a discography?

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

103 - THE FALCONS - I FOUND A LOVE/SWIM
104 - THE CORVELLS - BABY SITTING/?
105 - THE FOURMOST - WHY I CAN'T HAVE YOU/?
106 - GENE MARTIN - I GOT THE BLUES/?
107 - SAX KARI ORCH. feat. ELLA REED - SWEET MAN/?
108 - THE CONQUERERS - BILL IS MY BOYFRIEND/?
109 - THE OHIO UNTOUCHABLES - WHAT TO DO/?
110 - THE OHIO UNTOUCHABLES - LOVE IS AMAZING/?
111 - BOBBY WILLIAMS - I'M DEPENDING ON YOU/TELL IT TO MY FACE
112 - THE MINOR CHORDS - LET HER GO NOW/?
115 - EDDIE FLOYD - WILL I BE THE ONE/?
116 - THE OHIO UNTOUCHABLES - I'M TIRED/UPTOWN
117 - THE OHIO UNTOUCHABLES - UPTOWN/?
118 - THE RIVALS - IT'S GONNA WORK OUT/?
119 - SIR MACK RICE - MY BABY/?
120 - JOE STUBBS - KEEP ON LOVING ME/WHAT'S MY DESTINY
120 - THE PRIMETTES - TEARS OF SORROW/PRETTY BABY
121 - AL GARDNER - I'LL GET ALONG/I'M MOVING ON
121 - TINA MARVEL - PROMISES YOU MADE TO ME/?
122 - EDDIE FLOYD - A DEED TO YOUR HEART/I'LL BE HOME
122 - PHIL WADDEL - ROCKET WALK/?
123 - BETTY LAVETT - WITCHCRAFT IN THE AIR/YOU KILLED THE LOVE
124 - THE FALCONS - HAS IT HAPPENED TO YOU YET/LONELY NIGHTS
125 - MACK RICE - THE WHIP/?
126 - BENNIE McCAIN - YOU'RE ON MY MIND/?
711 - RICHARD T. - I FOUND YOU/?
712 - THE SONS OF 7 SISTERS - YOU'RE SO FINE/?
1003 - THE FALCONS - I FOUND A LOVE/?
1010 - THE OHIO UNTOUCHABLES - FORGIVE ME DARLING/?
1011 - THE OHIO UNTOUCHABLES - I'M TIRED/?
1019 - MACK RICE - MY BABY/?
1020 - THE FALCONS - LONELY NIGHTS/?
OO2 - EDDIE FLOYD - SET MY SOUL ON FIRE/WILL I BE THE ONE
OO3 - WILSON PICKETT - YOU'RE ON MY MIND/ANNA
OO5 - JOE S.MAXEY - MAY THE BEST MAN WIN/?

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 02:06 pm:

flipside of Gene MArtin is "Lonely Nights", flipside of Falcons 1020 is "Has It Happened To You Yet" flipside of Corvells 104 very wakely is "He`s So Fine" (I am not at home in front of my records, so my memeory is my assistant)

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 05:08 pm:

It should be noted on the above LuPine listing that the 120 by The primettes ,121 by Al Garnder and the 122 by Phil Waddell is from an earlier series and before the 103 by The Falcons this could be why there's no 100,101 or 102.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.242) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 08:47 pm:

Ron, "You're So Fine" by the Falcons is missing from that list. It should be before "I Found a Love."

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 08:55 pm:

Scratcher,
The Falcons' "You're So Fine" was released on the local Flick label - not Lupine.
Graham

By Scratcher (65.132.76.242) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 09:00 pm:

You're right Graham. I forgot that. Same family of labels though.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.242) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 09:10 pm:

"You're So Fine" later came out on UnArt and United Artists Records.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 11:39 pm:

Scratcher, as you know, Lupine owner Robert West had a few record labels in the late 50s and was a pioneer of R n' B in Detroit... Flick, Contour and Bumble Bee spring to mind.
"You're So Fine" was one of the very first "soul" recordings; a great song. The Corvells did an answer to it titled "He's So Fine."
Graham

By Julian (152.163.252.68) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 12:26 am:

How about a discgraphy of West's other labels? Not asking too much, am I?

By Wondering (64.45.230.186) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

Does anyone know if Robert West of Lupine, etc.,
is the same Robert West who worked as a business
manager with Mary Wells and her husband Herman
Griffin? Is he the man Herman Griffin was said
to have shot in the face?

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:25 pm:

To Wondering: yes you are correct it was the same Robert West and after what happened in New York with Mary & Herman West moved from Detroit to Vegas.

By Wondering (64.45.230.186) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:31 pm:

Was Herman Griffin ever charged?

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:49 pm:

West said he was talking with Mary & Herman and all he knew was he ending up on the floor. He said he didn't know what happened or who did it. West is now dead so we can't ask him, but whatever happened that day ended his career in the record business except for some reissues that he did from vegas. now I'm sure he knew what happened he was too afraid to say anything.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:53 pm:

This could be as interesting as the Mah's thread. Robert West is underrated too.

Graham sends in these 3, I see Mack Rice's signature on the first one.

By wondering (64.45.230.186) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 02:56 pm:

I heard he was trying to keep Herman from seeing
Mary, as she had separated from him. I also
believe that Herman Griffin is no longer living,
but after Mary divorced him, he moved back to
either Cleveland or Cincinatti, where he was
from.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

Ron

The Owosso address. Was that anything to do with the ARP building?

David

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

yes he was living in cincinati (the chili capitol of the world) the last time I seen him was at United Sound about 12 years ago for the Ian Levine sessions for Motor City Records, I did talk with him but I forgot to ask about Robert West.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:10 pm:

Julian there were approx 10 releases on Flick with 2 by the Falcons. Source R&B Indies.

Approx 4 on Bumble Bee.

4 on Contour.

1 on C&T

8? on Kudo incl Falcons/Marv Johnson/Beans BowlesJoltin Joe Howard/Brian Holland

5 on Silhouette-Falcons appear again.

Sorry, pushed for time.

David

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

West did use the address of American Record Pressing in Owosso,Michigan as an address for Lupine.

By LG Nilsson (213.89.30.85) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:14 pm:

Lu-Pine was a moving label! There are five different Detroit addresses and one Las Vegas address on the labels I have got� and at least four different label designs!! This Wilson Pickett solo release has the Vegas address.



Lars

By Scratcher (65.132.76.166) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:16 pm:

Acoolcat, the "You're So Fine" I had was on United Artist Records I just assumed it first appeared on Lupine. I forgot about West's other labels. Various sources cite Robert West as being Eddie Floyd's uncle, one source who was close to the scene and Lupine said West was Floyd's father. Any updates on this?

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:25 pm:

here's a page of scans from the much missed Detroit City Limits fanzine.

Having looked at their West discographies, I find variables with R&B Indies.

Hope this looks ok.

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:27 pm:

West was Eddie's uncle

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:30 pm:

By LG Nilsson (213.89.30.85) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:40 pm:

I have a closer scan of the real single by the Primettes. The Supremes first release was on this historic label!



Lars

By Scratcher (65.132.76.166) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 03:45 pm:

Read that too, Ron. Heard from a guy in Detroit that West was acutally Floyd's father. I guess we'll never know the truth until somebody pins Eddie Floyd down for a good interview, which hasn't been done yet.

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 04:23 pm:

does anyone have the real true original pressing of the primettes. I have never seen one, All i had or have seen is the one scaned above,and I'm sure this is a 2nd pressing done in 1964-5 after the supremes hits. The reason being look at the address on the label-West was not at this address until 1963 just check other releases and also compare it to the Al Gardner(121)in that same earlier series. An original 120 would have been pressed in 1960.

By stephanie (66.54.1.38) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 04:31 pm:

Did the Lupine label make any money? Was it considered to be a success?
Thanks
Stephanie

By Scratcher (65.132.76.166) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 04:31 pm:

The 1964-65 release is the original Ron. Lupine never released the record until the Supremes became big. It wasn't their first release. It was their first recording that remained in the vault until 64-65.

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 05:10 pm:

scratcher: very good, I'm sure that's correct,but I'm still wondering if West may have done a small pressing of maybe 100 copies back in 1960 you know it's amazing how thing's turn up.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.166) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 05:30 pm:

Ron, you just hit on something I was saying about Mike Hanks and his label on another thread. Often a small limited number of 45s were pressed; if no response, no more were manufactured. By no response, recording companies back then often had private record preview parties with the money men in the community: the pimps, the number runners, the hustlers, the businessmen, etc. Drinks and food would be served and everything. They would play new recordings or often one record and if somebody liked it they would put up money for a stake in the proceeds. If nobody stepped forward the project got placed on the back burner or dropped altogether. Some of these records were also sent to radio stations. So I hear you on this one. Often records came out on 45s that were not officially released, and many times the artists knew nothing about these efforts. But, often they did and would be at these meetings/parties.

In almost every case no money was ever made from the record to repay the "investors" so the investors took their proceeds from the artists live shows or from whoever they could. But I won't go there.

By LG Nilsson (213.89.30.85) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 06:39 pm:

Scratcher,

... again a very interesting story. But if the record was not released the first time, why didn't they change the name of the group to the Supremes if they wanted to "cash in" on the Supremes Motown success? In Mary Wilson's book Dreamgirl the release date is listed as March 1959. I have never heard that it was not released then. Is this really true?

Lars

By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 07:59 pm:

One record that hasn't been mentioned on this thread yet, and isn't listed in the discography, is the original release of Sliced Tomatoes by the Just Brothers. Somewhere I think I have the catalog number and B-side title (is it Things Will Be Better Tomorrow?) but I don't know where.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.207) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 08:12 pm:

Ron it was recorded 3/59 but not released until 1964. The Supremes first release was "I Want A Guy" on Tamla in 3/61.

Why Lupine didn't release it under the Supremes' name, I really don't know. May have been legal issues to consider.

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 08:22 pm:

It seems that "I Found a Love" was the B side - the flipside of the second "Atlantic" release is the same; "Swim"
I'll have to play and compare both copies as I see the running times vary!
TTYL, Graham

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 08:25 pm:

Lars: you should never trust what the artist may say,Mary Wilson also says that it was recorded at Hitsville Studio, well Motown didn't have a studio set up until 1960. once again I repete those copies of Primettes were not pressed in 1960. they look nothing like the 121 & 122 in that series. also in 1959 West was pressing records on the Flick and Contour labels there was no LuPine at that time. Now my guess as for why he didn't use the name Supremes could be he did not have the right to use it asMotown would trademark names.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.207) on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 08:28 pm:

Also, the story is quite accurate; small record companies couldn't get bank loans unless they owned property or had some other type of collateral and then it was a stretch in the sixties. They had to get financing the best way the could. And everybody wanted to say they had something to do with a hit record, provided it became a hit...that they know the artist personally...

By LG Nilsson (213.89.30.85) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 07:42 am:

Thanks Scratcher, Ron and Graham for the insight in this label. Let�s take a look at some scans here. Lupine released some singles with the same number. The only single I have with the LR prefix is the Primettes one. Joe Stubbs release on 120 looks like this:



It has a different address than The Primettes 45� The Mack Rice 119 release looks like this. Same address as the Primettes 45:



This is the Al Garner release on 121:



� and a new address again on this early Betty LaVette single:



Lars

By RD (65.132.79.238) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 07:52 am:

So true Ron, much of the erroneous information blamed on writers comes from wrong info from artists themselves. Some have a different twist on things every time you talk to them.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 10:22 am:

Lars,

The way to differentiate discs with the same number is that the later (63-4) ones have the
"L-" prefix to the number , the earlier (59-60)
one's just show the number with no prefix.

There's another complication is that some of
the later discs were released locally with a
three digit number but the copies which were
distributed nationally (by Atlantic) have
four-digit numbers.

By Scratcher (65.133.219.179) on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 10:27 am:

Sorry Ron, I meant to say Lars in a previous reply about the release of the Primettes' single.

By Wondering (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 08:46 am:

Ron, do you know when Mary Wells & Herman Griffin
were marrie/divorced? Press on her in 1964 (when
she toured w/the Beatles) said she had made a
tragic teenage mistake--married at 17 and divorced
at 19. Everyone insists she left Motown with him.
Did they reconcile? Was there another husband be-
fore Herman?

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 09:53 am:

Hi Wondering: All I remember about Mary Wells was that she was rehersing with Johnnie Mae Matthews ,Johnnie told me she didn't record anything on her, and ended up going over to Motown with a few songs she wrote, now seems to me she was16 when her first record "Bye Bye Baby" came out in October.1960 she signed a 4 year contract which ended in mid 1964. Herman told her she could do better by signing elsewhere I believe they got $100,00 up front from 20th Century, now I don't know when they got married or if they actually got married or not, The last time I talked to Mary was in the late 80's backstage at a show in Flint that a friend was putting on she had a baby with her and was with her husband Cecil Womack.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:14 am:

I knew Mary quite well. I never knew Herman. I
do remember the articles on her in late 64 about
getting married & divorced as a teenager. I be-
lieve she must've reconciled w/Herman when she
was about to leave Motown since everyone I've
spoken to who was there says that's who she left
with. He was, however, gone not long after her
departure because she was going with Carl Davis,
who produced some of her post-Motown work. In
the summer of 66 she married Cecil Womack. They
divorced in the 70s--around 78. The Womack she
was with in the 80s was Curtis, Cecil's brother,
and he was the father of the baby she had with
her--Sugar Wells. I'm not sure she ever married
Curtis.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:29 am:

As for the advance $ from 20th Century Fox, Mary
told me it was $300,000. No one seems to ever
give this amount in everything I've read, but
that's the amount she told me many, many years
ago.

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:49 am:

Hey Randy that' right it was curtis. And I'm sure she would know what the actual advance was, It just shows how much some artists were worth on the market. I know Marv Johnson's car
eer was mis-managed, cause I have all this statements from UA.

By Scratcher (63.188.33.131) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:58 am:

Mary Wells and Curtis Womack never wed but lived as man and wife and had the child Sugar. Mary brought Sugar to her shows and would bring her on stage sometimes.

That advance Wells' received from 20th Century Fox gets larger with each post. I hear it was only around $50,000, $100,000 maybe, no way they gave $300,000.00 upfront in 1964 to a mostly single's artist.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:07 am:

Scratcher, most reports I've read say "$500,000."
Others have state $200,000 and $100,000. Again,
many years ago, long before it was ever being
talked about, Mary told me it was $300,000.

By Scratcher (63.188.33.131) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:20 am:

You left out the movie deal Randy, which was going around too and later proven false. 20th Century Fox said they never promised to put Mary Well's in movies and that it was nowhere in the contract. She might have signed a $300,000 or $500,000 overall deal with 20th Century but I still doubt they gave her that much cash in hand. Where did the money go? Did she ever buy her mom that house in the suburbs? Mary and Cecil wasn't exactly living high on the hog, and she was struggling bad with Curtis. A friend told me that Mary and Curtis lived in Cleveland, Ohio at one point in a house off of Kinsman Rd. on 116th Street with friends.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:00 pm:

She denied she was ever promised a movie deal.
I have no idea what happened to the money, other
than she was terribly mismanaged by George Scheck,
who's other client was Connie Francis. After she
& Cecil married she was on a Joe Tex tour and
told us that during that tour they were paying
a promoter $700 a week (for how many weeks I do
not know) who sued her for not showing up for a
gig that she didn't even know about. She was be-
ing double booked for dates. And later she said
that that was just one of several promoters who
had sued her.
A guy who had worked with Scheck confirmed the
story of the advance with 20th Century Fox, though
he said it was $200,000. I think his name is Tad
Dowd. He said it would be like the Janet Jackson
or Madonna deals of today.

By Scratcher (63.188.33.131) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:08 pm:

What a shame.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:13 pm:

When she left Motown, she left Detroit and moved
to New York. She lived in a penthouse on Park
Ave. Maye James, her best friend lived there
with her. After she married Cecil, he lived
there too. Then she & Cecil moved to Calif.
and bought a home in Rolling Hills. I remember
it was on Aururo Drive (maybe misspelled!!!).
I think it was 31 Aruro Drive. Anyway, I never
knew her to live in Cleveland. She was always
in LA up 'til her death. Yes, I am aware that
things were not well financially for her & Curtis,
and things hadn't been well financially for many
years.

By Scratcher (63.188.33.131) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:24 pm:

Yep, Mary and Curtis did for a spell (live in Cleveland). Not for a long time though.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:56 pm:

Does anyone know Maye James? I believe she is
living in Detroit. Mary had told me back in
the 70s that Maye was working for a record
label, I think it was Playboy Records. I
remember the label, but can't remember who
recorded for them. I know she went with,
may have even married, one of the Blues
Busters, who were from Jamaica, I think.
I can't remember his name, but he also
lived with them at Mary's Park Ave. penthouse.
And, I almost forgot to mention, Mary and
Cecil lived in Ft. Lauderdale, FL for about
3 yrs. in the early 70s.

By Keith Hughes (81.77.188.233) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 05:50 pm:

I dont know how the following will look when it's posted - hope it will be readable and I am not wasting a lot of space.

I have the ones marked * and can post label scans if desired.

Inspired to do this by Ron Murphy stating so forcefully that the Primettes's single wasn't released till 1964. I wrote a whole magazine article on this subject (for whom? I forget: either Graham Anthony' Detroit City Limits or Mick Wilding's Yesterday-Today-Forever) and got a lot of sceptical feedback! - thank you, Ron!

I have discogs for other West labels if anyone wants to see 'em, though not quite in this detail.

Initially got turned on to West's sounds by the Relic LPs in the 1980s - about 8 of them, I think. They did a fine job, tho with a tendency to use alt takes without saying so - it was years before I found out Relic's issue of Marv Johnson's first single (on Kudo) wasn't the 45 cut.

Enough rambling, here's the list:


LR120 [LUPINE] [2930 W. Boston Blvd Detroit 6, Mich]
LUP-1 The Primettes : Tears of sorrow
LUP-2 The Primettes : Pretty baby

*121 [LUPINE] [2930 W. Boston Blvd Detroit 6, Mich]
S-1307 Al Garner : A Hom-Rich production
I'll get along (Rich Morris) Lupine Music BMI 2.12
S-1308 Al Garner : A Hom-Rich production
All I need is you (Rich Morris) West & Higgens BMI 2.15
[A side also on Groovesville 777 credited to Al Gardner]

LR 122 [LUPINE] [2930 W. Boston Blvd Detroit 6, Mich]
CP-5451 Phil Waddell : Rocket Walk
Phil Waddell : Arkansas Special

L-103 [£u Pine] [Owosso, Mich SA. 5-8176]
1 The Falcons : Swim
2 The Falcons and Band Ohio Untouchables : I found a love
[also on LuPine-1003]

*L-104 [£u Pine] [Owosso, Mich SA. 5-8176] Disk Jockey Advance Sample red/white
S-1597 (S2004 runout) The Corvells :
He's so fine (Schofield-Finnie-West) West-Higgins 2.25
S-1596 (S2005 runout) The Corvells :
Baby sitting (Thomas-West) Lupine Music 2.25
[also on LuPine-1004]

*L-105 [£u Pine] [Owosso, Mich SA. 5-8176]
(A runout) The Four Most :
Why can't I have you (Thomas-Thorton-Ward) Lu-Pine Music, Alibri-BMI 2.30
(B runout) The Four Most :
Twist-a-tast (Don Revel) Lu-Pine Music B.M.I. 2.30

*L-106 [£u Pine] [Owosso, Mich SA. 5-8176]
(A runout) Gene Martin :
I got the blues (Milton Jones) Lu-Pine Music, Alibri-BMI 1.50
(B runout) Gene Martin :
Lonely nights (Jones-Martin-West-Carl) Lu-Pine Music B.M.I. 2.10

L-107 [£u Pine] [Owosso, Mich SA. 5-8176]
Sax Kari Orch featuring Ella Reed : Sweet man
Ella Reed : I'll never forsake you

L 108 [£u Pine] [Owosso, Mich SA. 5-8176]
A The Conquerors : Dutchess conquers Duke
B The Conquerors Sax Earl Orchestra : Bill is my boy friend

L-109 [Lu Pine] [no address]
A Ohio Untouchables (Coffee McCain and Band) : She's my heart's desire
The Ohio Untouchables : What to do
[also on LuPine 1009]

*L1009 [Lu Pine] [no address]
[A6273, LU-6273-12 in runout] Benny McCain & the Ohio Untouchables :
She�s my heart�s desire (Schofield) Thelma-LuPine BMI 2.20
[A6274, LU-6274-12 in runout] Benny McCain & the Ohio Untouchables :
What to do (Schofield) Thelma-LuPine BMI 2.15

L110
The Ohio Untouchables : Forgive me darling
The Ohio Untouchables : Love is amazing
[also on LuPine 1010]

*1010 [Lu Pine] [no address]
[A-6885-11 in runout] The Ohio Untouchables :
Forgive me darling (Johnson-Ward) Lupine-Thelma-Cotillion 2.26
[A�6884-11 in runout) The Ohio Untouchables :
Love is amazing (Ward) Lupine-Thelma-Cotillion 2.23

L 111 [Lu Pine] [1011 E. Main St. Owosso, Michigan SA 5-8176]
A Bobby Williams : I'm depending on you
B Bobby Williams : Tell it to my face

*L 112 [Lu Pine] [1011 E. Main St. Owosso, Michigan SA 5-8176]
A [L11-2A in runout] Minor Chords :
Let her go man (Peterson-Thomas] Lu-Pine Music 2.15
B [L112B in runout] Minor Chords :
Many a day (Clark-Thomas] Lu-Pine Music 2.25

L-115 [£u Pine] [2930 W. Boston Blvd. Detroit, Mich. 869-2696]
A Eddie Floyd : Will I be the one
B Eddie Floyd : Set my soul on fire
[also on LuPine 002]

*L-116/7 [£u Pine] [2930 W. Boston Blvd. Detroit, Mich. 869-2696]
[116, 315 in runout] Ohio Untouchables :
I'm tired (Heard-Gordy-Davies) Lupine-Thelma Music BMI 2.37
[117, 305 in runout] Ohio Untouchables :
Up town (Robert Ward) Lupine-Thelma Music BMI 2.12
[also on LuPine 1011]

*L-1011 [Lu Pine] [no address]
[A-7569, 51398 (2/64)] Ohio Untouchables :
I'm tired (Heard-Gordy-Davies) Lupine-Thelma BMI 2.37
[instrumental, A-7570, 51398-X] Ohio Untouchables :
Uptown (Ward) Lupine-Thelma BMI 2.12

*L-118 [£u Pine] [2930 W. Boston Blvd. Detroit, Mich. 869-2696]
A The Rivals with T.J.Fowler's Band :
It's gonna work out (T.J.Fowler-G.Green) Lupine Music and Elaine Music 2.45
B (runout 315) The Rivals with T.J.Fowler's Band :
Love me (TJ.Fowler-G.Green) Lupine Music and Elaine Music 2.03

*L-119 [£u Pine] [2930 W. Boston Blvd. Detroit, Mich. 869-2696]
A (runout 315) Mack Rice :
Baby I'm coming home (Mack Rice & M. Johnson) Lupine Music 2.10
B (runout 315) Mack Rice :
My baby (Mack Rice) Lupine Music 2.20
[also on LuPine 1019]

*L-1019 [Lu Pine] [no address]
[LU-7621, 51646 (3/64)] Mack Rice :
My baby (Rice) Lupine-Cotillion, BMI
[LU-7622, 51646-X] Mack Rice :
Baby I'm coming home (Rice-Johnson) Lupine-Cotillion, BMI

*L-120 [Lu-Pine] [10131 Kercheval Ave, Detroit, Mich. 48124 821-0774]
A (runout 315) Joe Stubbs :
Keep on loving me (Thomas-West) Lu-Pine Music 2.15
B (runout 315) Joe Stubbs :
What's my destiny (Willie Schofield) Lu-Pine Music 2.30

*L-121 [Lu-Pine] [10131 Kercheval Ave, Detroit, Mich. 48124 821-0774]
A (runout 315) Tina Marvel :
Promises you made to me (Thomas-Thorton-West) Lu-Pine Music 2.15
B (runout 315) Tina Marvel :
I can't love no one but you (Charles Amos) Lu-Pine Music 2.20

*L-122 [Lu-Pine] [10131 Kercheval Ave, Detroit, Mich. 48124 821-0774]
A (runout 315) Eddie Floyd : prod. Simmons & Floyd
I'll be home (Eddie Floyd) Herco Music & Lupine Music 2.30
B (runout 315) Eddie Floyd : prod. Floyd & Simmons
A deed to your heart (Eddie Floyd) Lu-Pine Music 2.20
[also on LuPine-1022]

*L-123 [Lu-Pine] [4466 Chene Detroit 7, Michigan]
A (runout 315) Betty Lavett :
Witch craft in the air (Thornton-Thomas-Neely) Lu-Pine Music BMI 2.30
B (runout 315) Betty Lavett :
You killed the love (Thomas-West) Lu-Pine Music BMI 2.40

L-124 [Lu-Pine] [4466 Chene Detroit 7, Michigan]
Falcons : Has it happened to you
Falcons : Lonely nights
[also on LuPine-1020]

*L-125 [Lu-Pine] [4466 Chene Detroit 7, Michigan]
A (runout 315) Mack Rice :
The whip (Mack Rice) Lu-Pine Music BMI 2.25
B (runout 315) Mack Rice :
Feel's good (Rice-Kari) Lu-Pine Music BMI 2.20

*L-126 [Lu-Pine] [4466 Chene Detroit 7, Michigan]
A (runout 315) Benny McCain :
I don't want no part time love (Schofield-Pickett-West) Lu-Pine Music 2.30
B (runout 315) Benny McCain :
You're on my mind (Bob Hamilton) Lu-Pine Music 2.49

*002 [LU PINE] P.O. Box 4404--Las Vegas, Nevada 89106
A (runout 115-A) Eddie Floyd : prod. R. West
Will I be the one (Eddie Floyd) Lu-Pine Music 2.25
B (runout 115-B) Eddie Floyd : prod. R. West
Set my soul on fire (Eddie Floyd) Lu-Pine Music 2.30

*003 [LU PINE] P.O. Box 4404-Las Vegas, Nevada 89106
A (runout LP003-A) STEREO Wilson Pickett and The Falcons : prod. R. West
You're on my mind (Bob Hamilton) Lu-Pine Music 2:30
B (runout LP003-B) STEREO Wilson Pickett and The Falcons : prod. R. West
Anna (Mack Rice-Lance Finnie) Lu-Pine Music 2:30

*LP-005 [LU PINE] P.O. Box 4404--Las Vegas, Nevada---81906
A (runout PS-1001-A DCT) Joe S. Maxey Little 14 yr. old and his
15 piece Orquestra The City Flames : prod. Cholly Williams :
Right on! (The Cream) (Cholly Williams) Cholly Music BMI 2.10
B (runout PS-1001-B DCT) Joe S. Maxey Little 14 yr. old and his
15 piece Orquestra The City Flames : prod. Cholly Williams :
May the best man win (Cholly Williams) Cholly Music BMI 2.45

*LP-712 [LU-PINE] P.O. Box 4404�Las Vegas, Nevada 89106
A (runout 712A) STEREO-DISCO Sons of the 7 sisters featuring Silk and Satin
Prod Gabe Flemings Flemco Productions (Lu Pine 712 YS) p1979 Lu-Pine Rec
You�re so fine (L.Finney-W.Schofield) C. & B. West Pub., Co BMI 3.35
B (runout 712B) STEREO-DISCO Sons of the 7 sisters featuring Silk and Satin
Prod Gabe Flemings Flemco Productions (Lu Pine 712 YS) p1979 Lu-Pine Rec
You�re on my mind (Bob Hamilton) Lu-Pine Music BMI 3.35

By keith hughes (81.77.188.233) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 05:52 pm:

Oh, and one mo' ting: West had a distribution deal with Atlantic, and the ones that Atlantic pressed up had numbers in the 1000 series. That's why the same song appears on two different catalog numbers in some cases.

By keith hughes (81.77.188.233) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 05:57 pm:

Not done yet cos I just re-read & realised it was SCRATCHER who was saying about the Primettes, and Ron was just checking with him. Sorry for bad attribution, Scratcher - you're the man!

Done on this thread for now. Promise.

By MEL&THEN SOME (212.159.54.26) on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:35 pm:

This is the various scans and records I have seen and taped etc over the years.

Flick Records.

The Falcons.
Flick no.001 your so fine.
Flick no.008 Thats what I am.

Sunny Elmo
&The Minor Chords.
Flick no.009 Indian Love Call.


Bumble Bee Records.

Delores Maxwell
Bumble Bee no.506 My Man.


Fortune Records.

Choker Campbell
Fortune no.808. Rocking and Jumping.

Melvin Davis&The
Nite Sounds
Fortune no.551. Playboy.


Gino Parks
Fortune no.528 Last night I cried.
Fortune no.834(as Gino Purify) you are my sunshine.
Fortune no.837(as Gino purify) My Tears.
Fortune no.839(with Andre Williams) Dont Touch.
Fortune no.847(with Andre Williams) Im all for you.
Fortune no.851(with Andre Williams) Georgia May is moving.


Johnny Powers
Fortune no.199 Honey lets go.


Andre Williams
Fortune no.824(with The Don Juans)
Pulling time.
Fortune no.827 Just want a little lovin'
Fortune no.828(with The Don Juans)
Its all over.
Fortune no.831
just because of a kiss/Didlee Didlee Womp Womp.
also on same no.831.
Just because of a kiss/Baconfat.
Fortune no.834
(with Gino Purify&Don Juans)
you're my sunshine.
Fortune no.839
(with Gino Purify&Don Juans)
Come on baby.
also with the above artists on
Fortune no.839
Dont touch.
Fortune no.842
(With Don Juans) My last dance with you.
Fortune no.851
(with Gino&Five Dollars) Georgia may is moving.
Fortune no.856
(with Inspirations) Jail House Blues.


Five Jets
with Roquel Billy Davis
Fortune no.833. I'm Wondering.


Flaming Embers
Fortune no.869. Gone gone gone.
Fortune no.870(with Ray Kimble) Rain go Away.


Nick Forrest
Fortune no.513. I Cant fall in love.


Dave Hamilton&
The Peppers
Fortune no.861. Beatle walk/Argentina.


Hi-Fidelities
with Gino Parks
Fortune no.528. Last night I cried.


Lee and the
Leopards
Fortune no.867. What about me.


Contour Records


Faboulous Playboys
Contour no.004. I Fooled you.


Another on the
Bumble Bee Label

Five Masters
Bumble Bee no.? Were like one.


Thats all for now.
mel.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:47 am:

Thanks Mel - I guess you know that Fortune and Lupine were not conected. No doubt Fortune will have a thread of it's own soon enough.

Keith - the Al Gardner recording on Lupine and the one on Groovesville... are they the same recordings? I've always thought that Don Davis re-recorded the song; but I haven't been able to compare them.

Graham

By keithhughes (81.77.188.233) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 03:58 am:

Graham - I don't know! - I only have the Lupine record, have never heard the Groovesville. I would guess you are right, though.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.115) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 06:59 am:

Graham,
I only put the Fortune stuff up as somebody asked for some.

Time to get pissed.

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 09:36 am:

Have a few for me please Mel.

I've just listened to an interview I did with one The Primettes who was on the "Tears Of Sorrow" recording. (Barbara Randolph... a different singer to the one who sang "I Got A Feeling"),
She told me there were some inaccuracies in Mary Wilson's book... that she (Barbara) had been singing/practicing with the group for a month or more prior to the session... I think that Mary implies in her book that they found her at a bus stop enroute to the studio.
Shortly after the session Barbara left Detroit to live in New York, and didn't know that the song had been released until she returned to Detroit and met up with The Supremes at Motown, which was 64-ish.
Graham

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 10:09 am:

Excellent write up Keith. Only one missing, I have a Just Brothers "Sliced Tomatoes" on Lupine, that I also did not mention while contributing the first discography to this topic.

:-o

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 10:18 am:

Keith,
Here are a few Lupine 45s that I've seen listed over the years but ones I can't see on your listing above.

001 - McKinley & Delores and The Minor Chords
She's So Fine / I Fell In Love

005 - Joe S Maxey (Little 14 Year Old And His 15 Piece Orch.)
Right On! (The Cream)
May The Best Man Win

I think there were also some Lupine 45s released in the late 1970s... including the Just Brothers' 45 that Joe mentioned a while back.

711 - Richard T
I Found You / ?

712 - Sons of Seven Sisters feauring Silk & Satin
You're So Fine / You're on My Mind

801 - Eddie Kirkland
Train Done Gone / I Tried

0001 - Just Brothers
Things Will Be Better Tomorrow / Sliced Tomatoes

Any comments?

Cheers, Graham

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 10:21 am:

PS
The flip side of the Richard T 45 is titled "Bus Stop."
And the full credit is - Richard T and The Trans Ams
G

By LG Nilsson (213.89.29.129) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 11:26 am:

Graham,

I have just listened to �I�ll Get Along� by AL GARNER without a �D� on Lupine 121 (Check out the scan above of other side). I also listened to �I�ll Get Along� by AL GARDNER with a �D� on Groovesville 777. It is the same song but the Groovesville release is re-recorded with a more �modern� sound as you guessed.



Only Rich Morris is credited as writer on the Lupine issue. H. Davis is added on the Groovesville 45. Groovesville issue is �A Davis Production�. Lupine is �A Hom-Rich Production�.

Lars

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:02 pm:

only comments that springs to my mind Graham is the fact that McKinley Delores of course is an answer version to "You`re So Fine". And the Just Brothers that I have is the only Lupine on a dark blue label with silver writing. Very unlike the known blue,black and green on white label designs we all know and love. Overall I guess the black on white are the rarest.

By Keith Rylatt (217.137.88.3) on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 08:44 am:

Guys This thread is on a par with the Mike Hanks one. One snippet of info I picked up concerning the Primettes 45 was that a day or so after it was issued, Robert West's B&H Distribution Co in Owosso was sited on a payola charge and it's operations frozen. This put the kibosh on the Primettes. It was also suggested that the payola charge was false and it was more to do with the fact that B&H were a black owned distributor. can anyone add to this? Keith

By Keith Hughes (81.77.168.123) on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 06:13 pm:

Graham

Many thanks for the Lupine additions.

The Eddie Kirkland tracks feature on the Relic LP/CD "3 shades of the blues" - highly recommended to blues fans. I think Kirkland worked with John Lee Hooker in the 40s/50s.

005 and 712 were on my list with prefix "LP" (as per the labels) - they weren't albums, though, they were 45s. As far as I know. West didn't issue any albums - but I'm probably wrong: he must have done an album on the Falcons, surely.

Many thanks for filling in the gaps! I'm inspired - I'll try and put together some other West discogs in due course.

Keith

By Joe Moorehouse (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

Graham, I'd always assumed the Just Brothers record on Lupine was the original release--I'm surprised to learn it's probably from the '70s. What do you know about how it came to pressed up then?

I have a test pressing of Sliced Tomatoes b/w Things Will Be Better Tomorrow--no labels, just some grease pencil writing on the styrene that has mostly worn off over the years. Etched in the dead wax are 10809X-A (on the "Things" side) and 10810X-A (on the "Tomatoes" side). Looks like it's dated 8/31/71. I'm assuming this is a Music Merchant test pressing, since they released both sides--albeit not on the same disk--the following year. But if anyone has other ideas about whether this single might be related to Empire (unlikely, given the date) or Lupine (possible, given that Lupine is the only label that released both sides on the same 45), I'd be happy to hear them.

By Keith Hughes (81.77.138.140) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 12:56 pm:

Here's another one - no catalogue number or other details known, artist is "The Singing Principal" and the sides are "Womans Lib" and "Thank you baby".

Also, anyone who's followed this thread thus far may be interested to know that there was a CD issued last year called "Birth of Motor Town", on RPM 249 (it's a UK label) containing 24 Robert West mainly Lupine sides. Compilation and notes by Clive Richardson, which makes it all the more surprising that he attributes "I'll get along" and "All I need is you" to Marv Johnson, on the grounds that the singer has a high voice and there's a flute in the arrangement! He clearly isn't aware this was a Lupine single, credited to Al Garner.

Incidentally, I think from my reading of the relevant bit of Mary Wilson's book "Dream girl" that these tracks were cut at the same time as the Primettes' tracks, and that the Primettes sing backing. Mary remembers the singer's name as Alonzo.

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

Joe - I've spoken to Frank Bryant - 50% of the Just Brothers - and he told me they cut Sliced Tomatoes around the time they recorded their great 45 on Empire; Things Will Be Better b/w She Broke His Heart. He couldn't figure out how the track came to be released much later on Music Merchant, but obviously someone did a deal. It's Eddie Willis on guitar by the way.
I have no idea how it came to be released on Lupine - and haven't even seen a copy - but guess another deal was struck. There doesn't appear to be any direct connection with Bob West.
Cheers,
Graham

By LG Nilsson (213.89.29.129) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 02:49 pm:

Joe,

Your test pressing must be Music Merchant 1008. I have got the released single with the matrix number you mentioned.



On the three singles Just Brothers released on Music Merchant they used �Sliced Tomatoes� as B-side on all of them 1002, 1008 & 1010! The Just Brothers album MMA 103 was never released. Has anyone here heard any tracks from that album?

Lars

By keithsally50@hotmail.com (217.137.89.62) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

Guys. Rob Moss in the UK struck a deal with Frank Bryant a couple of years ago and he, Rob issued some interesting stuff on his Hayley label. I can supply info. if required. Keith

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 03:16 pm:

Keith, the Falcons didn't have an album until
Relic took over dealing with the Lupine catalogue
in the late eighties.

Davie

By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 09:54 pm:

Thanks for that image, Lars--I see the serial number from my test pressing on the label, so that indeed must be what I have. My discography doesn't list a B-side for 1008, so I just assumed it wasn't Sliced Tomatoes, since it was released two other times on the same label. These songs certainly have a strange release history, but they're both great.

By keith Hughes (81.77.138.140) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 04:17 am:

Thanks Davie for your note about the Falcons.

On the RPM CD I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a pic of an album label - Flick 8005 You're so fine The Falcons. Track listing (side B) is as follows:

You're mine
Baby that's it
Anytime, anyplace, anywhere
I wonder
Juke hop
No time for fun
Whose little girl are you
I'll never find another girl like you

Is this one of the Relic albums (i.e. did they put "Flick" on the label even though it was Relic)? I only have the CD, where these tracks are #s 9-16.

If there are no original Robert West albums, then I suspect the Lupine single on Eddie Kirkland, also mentined above, is also a Relic product and not a true Lupine 45, as the label states "Taken from the album Three Shades of the Blues".

Any thoughts?

Keith

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:59 am:

You are right.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

Keith, - yes.

The only LuPine albums have been compilations
put together by either Relic in the US or
some UK labels like Specialty (this Specialty was
part of Ember, that's the UK Ember label not the
New York one.

I believe Relic put out a few singles on Lupine
including the Eddie Kirkland one as promotional
devices for the albums - Relic were never really
interested in the singles market.

The Relic issues have a lot of material that
was previously unissued - apparently there's
even more stuff they didn't release.

Davie

By Keith Hughes (81.77.141.206) on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:05 am:

Thanks, guys.

Will put up discogs on other West labels in a few days ... basically I know very little more than what is shown in the Detroit City Limits discog, but since that was published many years ago, & I suspect some folk on this thread haven't seen it, it's probably worth doing.

Incidentally, this thread has cost me money! Happened to see a copy of the Conquerors' Lupine 45 in a sale, bid for it and got it! Only the Ella Reed to find now. Anyone got a copy surplus to requirements?