By DELL (12.14.39.66) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 01:09 pm: |
JUST PURCHASED THE DVD, IT'S WONDERFUL AND INSIGHTFULL, AFTER ALL THAT THE FUNK BROTHERS DID FOR MOTOWN, WHY WOULDN'T BERRY MAKE PROVISIONS FOR THEM IN LA, TO KEEP THE MAGIC ALIVE, DID HE THINK HE WOULD GET BETTER MUSICIANS?, AND NOW THAT WE KNOW THE FUNK BROTHERS DIDN'T LIKE THE MOVE, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW THE RECORDING ARTISTS FELT, e.g. TEMPTS, FOUR TOPS, SUPREMES, etc......
MOTOWN STAYING IN DETROIT COULD HAVE CHANGED THE COURSE OF R&B, IN AMERICA
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:06 pm: |
Happy to report that as of this week, the SITSOM soundtrack album, after seven months of steady sales, debuts at #75 on the Billboard R&B Album chart and #18 on its Soundtrack chart. For the latter it's a notch above the chart debut of "A Mighty Wind."
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:08 pm: |
Harry,
This is wonderful news. This is a very good beginning. Congratulations to all the guys.
By stephanie (66.54.1.38) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:39 pm: |
Thanks for the news Harry I hope it keeps climbing up there..
Stephanie
By 65memories (66.72.176.188) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:55 pm: |
Eveybody...keep spreading the word about what a hidden jewel this DVD is! Word of mouth makes a difference at times.
By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 09:30 pm: |
I could have sworn that I caught the glimpse of a TV commercial advertising the DVD during a Lakers playoff game last week here in LA.
Cool!
By Emmett (68.129.149.217) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 10:00 pm: |
If y'all liked the wonderful "Standing in the Shadows of Motown," be on the lookout for the new concert-documentary from New Orleans, "Deacon John's Jump Blues." It is supposed to come out in June. Deacon John Moore is the center of the show, but it features an array of New Orleans talent, including Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Allen Toussaint singing solo at the piano, Dr. John doing the same, Teedy Boutte and Deacon John singing a Shirley and Lee medley, and a great arranger from New Orleans named Wardell something leading a big band. I fooled my way into an advance screening of the movie and it's real. They did this thing right.
By Nancy (152.163.188.68) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 10:20 pm: |
THanks for the news emmett I will be looking for it, I just got my dvd, congratulations Harry on the billboard spot
By Marv (152.163.188.68) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 10:36 pm: |
I've always loved Allen Toussaints music. He is another one of the overlooked genius of American Music.
By Captain radio (170.20.11.59) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 05:27 am: |
Now that the DVD is available there's no excuse not to see the movie. I saw the movie in NYC while it was in limited release and bought the soundtrack the next day. Just purchased the DVD, or should I say DVD's last week. I was surprised to see a good stock of product in my local Tower records store. Just watched DVD 2, great stuff. Now I have to wait for my children to be out of the house so I can crank up the audio and enjoy the total experience. I think the "turn that noise down" syndrome skipped a generation, going directly from my parents to my children.
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 08:38 am: |
I bought the DVD while visiting family in Norfolk, VA and just as assuredly as the McDonald's employee asks "Would you like fries or an apple pie with that", the clerk asked, "Do you have the soundtrack for this one?" Hooray for person to person marketing (and good music. )
Regards,
Ken
By BassLAnd (64.169.107.68) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:00 am: |
I got my DVD Saturday and watched it as if I had not seen the movie (3 times) The extras are wonderful great job!
Bassland
By Michael/Cleoharveyc (160.79.83.208) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:05 am: |
I just bought and watched the DVD and it is marvelous. The deleted scenes are great and solidify how these talented men felt about each other. I love the musical performances but I must say that the peformer that gave me goosebumps was Chaka Khan doing What's Going On. With all that lady has been through, she still has the pipes of life. It is no wonder she and the Funk Brothers won a Grammy for that peformance. The weakest one for me was Ben Harper.
Truly an incredible DVD and if you don't have it run and get it, your soul will be satisfied and funkified.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:09 am: |
Emmett:
The arranger/conductor on the Deacon John DVD is Wardell Quezerque (pronounced KWEH-ZAYRE).
Great news regarding the soundtrack. The DVD is #9 and climbing at my record/DVD store.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By john c (12.2.233.107) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 03:18 pm: |
I didn't apppreciate him when I first saw the movie, but I really enjoyed Montell Jordan when I saw it again on DVD. I agree with the Ben Harper comment, but he had some nice things to say about the Funk Brothers in this month's Guitar Player.
Does anyone (HW?) know if the Deluxe DVD is still a go?
By janjan (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:41 pm: |
That movie was the best documentary that i have seen in a long time like maybe 30 years. It was the max!!!1 I just want to know if they are getting paid handsomely.
i hope so! Watching that movie made me cry and remember when Detroit was growing and Motown helped Black people to gain a sense of pride and dignity. I used to visit Motown like some kids go to summer camp. There is no better name for those men other than The FUNK Brothers. I loved the part when one of the musicians said, " No disrespect but a dog could have sang the song.... it was the music that was so BBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAADDD!
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:44 pm: |
NOT JUST *ANY* DOG JANJAN!!!..*DEPUTY DAWG*!!!...STUBASS
By Funkyone D J Dollar BILL (216.221.81.96) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 11:47 pm: |
Great name JanJan!I too would love to know about the Deluxe DVD.What else could they possibly cram in?A real live performance of the Funk Bros in your home?I joked elsewhere that maybe it would come with action figures of The Funk Brothers with Mr.Asford's vibes sold seperatly a la Barbie's Dream house.I am happy to see shirts and other merch available now as I would have grabbed one of everything if they had them in T.O.
By soulie dave uk (212.219.39.84) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 10:33 am: |
I believe that the DVD is not being released in the UK. Is that right? and if so, does anyone know why. I saw the movie when it was shown on London but am still waiting and wondering why it has not had a UK release as far as I know. Thanks.
By padgburyman (195.93.50.9) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 10:49 am: |
Soulie Dave
I got mine via Amazon over two weeks ago (shipped in from the States).
By john c (12.2.233.107) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 11:23 am: |
Funkyone,
My understanding was that the deluxe DVD set was to include more remixes of the Funk Brothers original Motown tracks, like they did with You Keep Me Hangin' On and Bernadette on the soundtrack CD.
By HW (12.110.192.128) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 12:00 pm: |
The 4-disc deluxe DVD is, according to Artisan, scheduled for September. One of the 4 discs will be the FB remixes from the archives.
By LeVan45789 (166.107.73.152) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 12:11 pm: |
I got my copy last week and I have to say it is excellent. I can't wait for the 4-disc deluxe DVD set.
By Uptight (24.55.6.144) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 12:31 pm: |
HW, great to hear the 4-disc set is still a go and will include FB remixes! Often I play the current soundtrack just for "Bernadette" and "You Keep Me Hanging On."
By john c (12.2.233.107) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 03:13 pm: |
Harry,
Thanks for the update. Are you involved in selecting/producing the FB tracks?
By john c (12.2.233.107) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 10:34 am: |
I noticed in Entertainment Weekly that SITSOM ranked 10th in DVD sales last week.
By Jonel (137.113.28.183) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 03:23 pm: |
I got mine last week from Amazon and I love it. Amazon is pairing it up with The Temptations DVD and that is a nice package. The SITSOM web site is great too. Love the biographies. I'm looking forward to the 4-disk set.
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 10:55 pm: |
Re John C's question:
Allan Slutsky and I painstakingly selected, and produced new mixes for, 16 classic songs from the archives. Each one stands on its own as an instrumental. Every Funk Bro' gets a spotlight.
The record has been done for a little while, just waiting for official word.
By john c (12.2.233.107) on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:33 am: |
Yea! I can hardly wait.
By gdwms (67.97.33.140) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 03:43 pm: |
Was Eddie Willis,the only Funk Brother to receive
songwriting credit on a Motown song?According
to my copy of "Nothin'But Soul"Jr.Walker & The All Stars compilation "Home Cookin" credits
Dewalt-Willis.
By John Lester (213.123.147.225) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:32 am: |
Anybody see the interview in the 7 June 2003 edition of Billboard (page 21) with Suzanne de Passe. She comments "....I feel as though some of what the process really was, was lost.....everyone is entitled to their point of view but when I do my movie, it will be different".
By girlbassplayer1961 (208.8.159.223) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:44 am: |
Henry,
What process did you and Allan use to decide which cuts to use for the 16 classic songs from the archives? Did you remix and master each song? Are they the original cuts from the 60's?
I feel so honored to beable to ask these questions to someone who was there!
Sincerely!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Allan Slutsky and I pain stakingly selected, and produced new mixes for, 16 classic songs from the archives. Each one stands on its own as an instrumental. Every Funk Bro' gets a spotlight.]
By Greg (12.84.96.44) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 06:00 am: |
In Chicago, Richard Peque has really given the dvd the highest marks. Richard is the leading dj for Doo Wop and such in Chicago,( most likely the Midwest) You can tell Iam bias, but not about Standing in the shadows of Motown, Its got to be quality if Richard says it is.....so off to the store I go.........Greg
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:42 am: |
John,
Regarding the Suzanne DePasse Billboard interview. In my opinion she never had a clue about any type of process.
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:00 am: |
Take a look at her "Temptations" film, with its rolling hills on Grand Blvd., in front of Hitsville -- filmed in Pittsburgh! Who cares what Detroit looks like, was the attitude.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:05 am: |
Sue,
I really have to wonder what Ms. DePasse thinks she can do for a movie about the Brothers. For the most part I doubt if she would have even recognized any of the guys if she ran into them.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:07 am: |
But let's not get me started on Suzanne DePasse.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:15 am: |
Maybe she should stick to kids' shows like "Sister Sister"?
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:17 am: |
Right on Ritchie. That really is more her area of expertise.
By Come On And See Me (198.81.26.231) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:27 am: |
How they can spell Tammi Terrell's name wrong in the credits of the Temps film, I will never know..
if that is her process that is a process I want nothing to do with...Details are important.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:37 am: |
John,Who cares what Suzanne DePasse has to say ? about anything ,- a greasy pole climber if ever there was one.
Davie
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:38 am: |
girlbassplayer,
the songs you asked about range from 1962 through 1971, about 10 years of Funk Brothers playing. we picked through tracks so that each guy was emphasized for one reason or another, we were careful to represent different tempos and feel, we made sure each track stood out as an instrumental, and we chose significant performances in the canon.
for example, much as we all love "My Baby Loves Me," and as well as it's played, it's not too exciting to listen to without Martha Reeves, the Vandellas and the other background singers - no signficant riffing or soloing from verse to chorus etc.
hope we can announce this thing soon.
By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:36 pm: |
Greasy pole climber -- ha!
Yeah DePasse's power with BG is hard to explain -- maybe Ralph and those who were there can say.
The other thing in the film; David Ruffin's 90-something mother, living and in a nursing home at the time, was described as a prostitute who gave her son to her pimp -- that story was from Otis Williams' book.
I too doubt that she would know any of the Funks if she saw them.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 03:50 pm: |
Sue,
I have a couple of theories why Berry allowed this to happen but nothing I can prove. Perhaps it's best looked at as a corporate blunder. He did something similar by appointing Bette Ocha head of A&R after Eddie Holland, who had been in charge, left the company along with his brother and Lamont Dozier. Personally I didn't have too many problems with Bette and I rather liked her but she was in totally over her head with that job.
By Caleb (171.75.81.41) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 05:19 pm: |
Harry,which tune was picked for Babbitt on the upcoming 16 trk instrumental funk brother package to be released in Sept.featuring a tune emphasizing each funk brother?
By John Lester (213.123.127.25) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 05:34 pm: |
I was rather surprised that Miss de Passe should go into print with those views. I wished she had been more precise about exactly she felt was missing from SITSOM but then we have HER movie to look forward to!!
This lady continues her knack of upseting people who are passionate about their Motown.
By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 08:26 pm: |
Is there a link online to the Billboard DePasse story? I didn't see the print edition ...
By Wendal (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:08 am: |
The Museum of African American History will feature SITSOM on June 19th.
http://www.maah-detroit.org/black_music.htm
By John Lester (217.40.227.64) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 04:29 am: |
Sue
I read the article in the printed edition....if I can get it to scan at work, I shall post it
By John Lester (217.40.227.64) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 07:01 am: |
It's easier for me to just type it out.
Did you see the film SITSOM?
"I saw an early version. I was very happy for the guys (the Funk Brothers). I feel they deserve a great deal of credit.
But at the same time, I feel as though some of what the process was, was lost. To wit, the producers were very much a part of how those records got made.
My recollection is, it was a real team effort: musicians, producers, arrangers, egineeers, executives. It's hard sometimes to get a balanced portrait. Everyone is entitled to their point of view. But when I do my movie, it will be different."
By soulboy (80.0.251.238) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 07:06 am: |
On a more positive note, If Miss de passe or anyone for that matter,is considering a film similar to SITSOM, then already the film looks like it's achieved what it set out to do.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 07:13 am: |
'Nuff said. SITSOM set out to recognise and celebrate the Funks' immeasurable contribution to the sound of Motown. Ms de Passe's comments are rather akin to criticisng a wildlife documentary on African elephants for its failure to talk about lions.
By John Lester (217.40.227.64) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:05 am: |
gdwms
Many have songwriter credits...Dave Hamilton, Beans Bowles, Robert White, James Jamerson, Earl Van Dyke, Dennis Coffey,
Try songs like Fever in the Funkhouse, The Flick etc
By Rose (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:18 am: |
Suzanne is absolutely correct. SITSOM gives too much credit to the rhythm section and none to the producers, arrangers, engineers, horn players, strings, background singers, Berry Gordy or sales and marketing. Why wasn't Diana Ross talked about more in that movie? Eddie Holland recently stated that SITSOM is pure, excuse my English, bullshit.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:30 am: |
Wow! Diana was in the Funk Brothers? What did she play?
By John Lester (217.40.227.64) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:34 am: |
Where did Eddie Holland say that? I would be interested to know why he would say that it was.....err, not good!
By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:58 am: |
Eddie -- or it might have been Lamont actually -- did not say that. Eddie or Lamont was replying to some criticism by one of the Funks about money; claimed they were well paid for the time (WAY overstating what they made, BTW).
But HDH and the Funks were crying and hugging at the HDH BMI tribute a few weeks ago, no hard feelings.
Ritchie, you put it exactly right. The film took one overlooked portion of Motown and shone the light on it.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:25 am: |
And that says it in a nut shell Sue. Suzanne DePasse should stick to making cheesy sitcoms and stay away from subjects she doesn't understand.
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:27 pm: |
SOUNDS TO ME LIKE MS. DEPASSE WAS THE *REAL* BRAINS BEHIND THE MOTOWN OPERATION!!!...PERHAPS HER FILM SHOULD BE TITLED..."STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF *BERRY GORDY*!!!...STUBASS
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:33 pm: |
OR BETTER YET!!!...PERHAPS BERRY GORDY'S AUTOBIOGRAPHY WILL BE TITLED..."STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF *SUZANNE DEPASSE*"???...
By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:36 pm: |
The "Passe" part of her name says it all.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:42 pm: |
That could very well be Stu. At any rate I lay the downward slide of Motown primarily at Suzzane's incompetent feet. There was a brief moment in the early 80's that Rae Singleton was back at the helm and I saw a glimmer of hope for the company, but for some reason she was pushed out and the rest is history. I suppose the bottom line here is what we all really know to be true...that Motown should never have left Detroit. Berry should have left Harry Balk in charge of the store. Things would have been different, believe me.
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:49 pm: |
YEAH RALPH: I REMEMBER BRUCE AND RUSS WORKING ON SOME PROJECTS TOGETHER... AND GOING TO THE STUDIO WITH BRUCE AND SEEING RAE SINGLETON SORT OF RUNNING THINGS!!!...AS FOR OLD HARRY BALK...HE IS ONE OF THE UNDERAPPRECIATED FIGURES IN THE MOTOWN EQUATION!!!...BRUCE IS TRYING TO ARRANGE A LUNCH FOR US WITH HARRY...WHO DOESN'T GET AROUND AS MUCH AS HE USED TO...BUT AS I RECALL...HE IS ONE FUNNY MAN!!!...STU
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:53 pm: |
Stu,
Harry is one of a kind. A truly unique individual. If you and Bruce can arrange some time with him, do it. You won't be disappointed. What we all must remember is that it is under Harry's stewardship that Motown had it's most prolific years.
By Bob Olhsson (12.93.84.125) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:09 pm: |
Sue,
First, they WERE well paid for the time and, sadly, far better paid than most musicians are today.
The Funk Brothers are an incredible story but so is the rest of Motown and the Detroit scene in general during that period. The fact that HDH didn't become a bigger success with full-time access to the Funks after Motown left town does at least say something about the rest of us who were part of Motown.
I agree with anybody who says that the WHOLE story would be a lot better but hopefully it won't be as fictionalized as the Temptations film was. At least from what I can remember, SITSOM seems to be entirely true with only errors of omission.
By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:17 pm: |
TRUE ENOUGH..."SITSOM" WAS IN FACT...JUST ONE PART OF THE MOTOWN STORY...BUT A VERY INTEGRAL PART...BASED ON A BOOK..."STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN"!!!...I SUPPOSE THAT A FILM ABOUT THE LIFE OF BERRY GORDY JR... OR ANY OF THE MOTOWN ACTS...OR THE COMPANY IN GENERAL WOULD BE INTERESTING...BUT THE UNIQUENESS OF THE "FUNK BROTHERS" AS RELATES TO THE MUSIC BUSINESS IN GENERAL...AND THE INTERTWINING OF THEIR LIVES...CAREERS...AND THAT 30 YEAR GAP...IS WHAT MADE THE "SITSOM" PROJECT SO UNIQUE!!!...IT WOULD BE LIKE TRYING TO BRING BACK THE DETROIT RED WINGS OF THE 1950'S ...BUT THOSE GUYS COULD HARDLY PLAY HOCKEY LIKE THE "FUNK BROTHERS" CAN STILL PLAY MUSIC!!!...STUBASS
By Scratcher (65.238.127.216) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:24 pm: |
It was Eddie Holland who made the statement about the Funk Brothers being well paid for the time. The link was posted on this site but I forget what thread. I once read years ago where Earl Van Dyke said he was making $80,000 grand a year in the mid to late sixties.
By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:28 pm: |
Mike Terry once told me that the most he ever was paid was 100 dollars a week! That is why he left.
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:32 pm: |
Bob,
The film made no pretense that it was about "all" of Motown. So I'm not sure why you're criticizing it for focusing on the Funks.
Tell Joe Hunter and the rest of the Funks that they're wrong about those $5 a song paychecks that were the going rate in the early Motown days. Joe is one of the most honest souls I know, so I'd like to hear that conversation. $5 a session was all BG could afford early on, and they took it.
Later on the pay increased, but the highest paid guys were Jamerson and Earl Van Dyke, making triple scale and then some. But the rest of the Funks were making scale, well below that.
The guys felt abandoned by Motown when it left for L.A., more than underpaid while it was in its heyday.
By Bob Olhsson (12.93.84.77) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:35 pm: |
Stu,
I understand unique from a musicians' standpoint. The thing of it is that the story is every bit as unique from an engineer's, producer's, music publisher's, artist's, and record sales person's point of view too.
I've been very disappointed by all of the books including BG's. SITSOM is only the first chapter of an amazing true story. Hopefully it won't also be the last.
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:41 pm: |
HEY BOB: IT MAY COME DOWN TO AN INDIVIDUAL SUCH AS YOURSELF TO TELL *YOUR* PART OF THE STORY!!!...YOU WERE THERE...AND I'M SURE THAT A VIEW OF MOTOWN FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE WOULD BE MOST INTERESTING!!!...I DON'T KNOW THAT A REUNION OF EX MOTOWN ENGINEERS TAKING ONE MORE CRACK AT THE STUDIO...INSIDE THE CONTROL ROOM... WOULD GARNER MUCH PUBLIC APPRECIATION...BUT SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO TELL YOUR STORY...THE MARKETPLACE...I'M SURE...WILL SORT OUT IT'S RELATIVE IMPORTANCE!!!...REGARDS...STU
By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:46 pm: |
If they worked as a "unit" why did Jamerson and Van Dyke get paid more money.
In Philly we would have none of that kind of garbage because we WERE a unit and we stuck together and there was absolutely no favoritism and we made GREAT money in doing so.
By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:46 pm: |
HELL!!!...IT WAS ALL WE COULD DO TO GET RUSS TERRANA DOWN TO L.A. FOR THE "FUNK BROTHERS" CONCERT!!!...IMAGINE TRYING TO GET RUSS TO SHOW UP FOR A MOVIE SHOOT!!!...STU
By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:48 pm: |
TO TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BOBBY!!!...BERRY GORDY WAS A "MASTER MANIPULATOR"...AND HE PLACED RELATIVE VALUE WHERE HE SAW IT'S IMPORTANCE TO HIS GAMEPLAN!!!...STU
By Bob Olhsson (12.93.84.77) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:49 pm: |
I'm not criticizing the film, it's by far the best. and more important, the most accurate thing about Motown that's ever been done.
I'm just saying that there is more to the story that I think is every bit as good. Hopefully whoever does it will have the same passion for the real story that Allen has had.
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:50 pm: |
Well even the other Funks would probably agree that Jamerson earned his triple scale -- and Earl too, who was after all the bandleader. I've never heard any of the guys begrudge them the extra.
Jamerson was that integral.
By Sue (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:07 pm: |
I should put that differently -- I've never heard any of the Funks begrudge Jamerson or Earl that extra money, and they do not hold back on other things they disapprove of (laugh) ...
By clueless in Seattle (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:25 pm: |
I'm angry, why didn't they have or mention Carol Kaye in the movie?
By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:30 pm: |
HEY CLUELESS!!!...WHAT DO YOU MEAN???...I UNDERSTAND THAT CAROL KAYE...WROTE "SITSOM"...PRODUCED "SITSOM"...STARRED IN "SITSOM"...AND SOLD POPCORN AT THE THEATRE'S WHERE "SITSOM" WAS PLAYING!!!...STUBASS
By Soulboy (80.0.251.238) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:41 pm: |
CLUELESS IN SEATTLE
They did make a sort cryptic reference to CK, when the hollands brothers said, no one on the westcoast/eaestcoast/anycoast could play like jamerson. i suspect the producers left out dealing with the CK issue directly because of legal reasons.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:52 pm: |
Probably is a legal issue. Doesn't Disney own the copyright on Pinocchio?
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 03:24 pm: |
I am enjoy this dialog. This is the best discussion since November when the film was released.
The name of the film says it all. Why is it that the musicians were kept in the shadows, away from fame, except for Jamerson and Van Dyke? Actually, if it were not for the fans, Jamerson would have stayed in the closet. "Who are the Funk Brothers" was the question, and the film title was the answer.
I believe if it had not been for the Funk Brothers and the writers, Motown would not have had those great hits. During those days, Passe had nothing at all to do with the greatness of those hits. Why is she envious of this great film?
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 03:28 pm: |
Allan passion and love for the raw music is what brought the light into the tunnel. His determination over those years, without assistance from Passe or HDH, or anyone else in that arena, is the only reason the Funk Brothers were brought out of that tunnel.
Let the others put forth an effort, let them walk the many miles as Allan did, and tell their side of the story.
By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 03:36 pm: |
Hey Clueless you must be sleepless as well as hopeless.
Sitsom is a documentary not an animated feature.
Get a life, and some sleep!!!
By Rich (12.90.54.33) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 04:04 pm: |
Amen Sis Detroit - if anybody got beef, they're certainly welcome to do their own film. I'm very grateful to those who put this together. To cover the material they chose to cover, that well in the given time limit is ridiculous. I was thrilled to have sat down with the my entire family to watch the DVD as if it were an event.
Although I must confess I had beef with two very minor aspects. And in following my own advice, I'm gonna find an old 8mm and shoot the sequel.
However, my sequel won't find it necessary to devote precious screen time to the musings of a "hot" white producer, to legitimize the quality of the Funk Brothers creative output. And it will not include closeups of any skinny white saxaphone players standing up and taking a solo as if they were one of the Funk Brothers. I'll call it, Sit down & shut up - The Shadows Volume II - LOL
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 05:15 pm: |
HEY RICH: I ASSUME YOU'RE REFERRING TO TOM SCOTT'S HORN SOLO ON "SHOTGUN"!!!...PLEASE REMEMBER THAT "SHOTGUN" WAS A JR. WALKER (A SAXAPHONE PLAYER'S) RECORDING...AND THE SAX SOLO'S WERE AN INTREGAL PART OF ALL JR. WALKERS MATERIAL...SO TOM SCOTT TAKING CENTER STAGE FOR THAT PERFORMANCE WAS THE SAME AS ONE OF THE SINGERS (JOAN OSBOURNE...CHAKA KAHN...BEN HARPER...OR ANY OF THE OTHERS) GOING OUT FRONT!!!...I'M SURE THATS WHAT ALLAN SLUTSKY WANTED...AND BESIDES...TOM SCOTT IS A TENOR SAX PLAYER OF HIGH REGARD AND ESTEEM IN THE MUSICAL COMMUNITY...SO IN MY OPINION...HIS PERFORMANCE ON CENTER STAGE WAS HIGHLY APPROPRIATE AND ENTERTAINING!!!...STUBASS
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 05:19 pm: |
Tom Scott absolutely blows me away. Junior Walker is well represented by the talents of this incredible sax player.
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 05:22 pm: |
PS TO RICH!!!...I DON'T THINK THAT THE RACE OF ANY PARTICIPANT IN "SITSOM" IS WORTHY OF DISCUSSION!!!...AFTERALL...THE "FUNK BROTHERS" WERE AN INTEGRATED GROUP OF MUSICIANS...AND ANY REFERENCE TO THE RACE OF *ANY* "FUNK BROTHER" IS HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE...IN THAT THE "FUNK BROTHERS" WEREN'T ABOUT RACE...THEY WERE ABOUT "FUNK"...REGARDLESS OF THE RACE OF THE VARIOUS MEMBERS!!!...STU
By Jack (65.82.175.89) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:19 pm: |
When I stood on the stage holding a chicken and said that he worked with the funks back in the day and we made him a hit. " He didn't get paid" had nothing to do with Motown paying a damn chicken royalties, and I don't see how some fools can take a skit and turn it into a negitive slur about Motown. It was nothing more than a joke on stage. I started not to respond to this BULSHIT but there's been too much read into a stage joke.I would also like to add that I you have been to any one of our shows you would hear me give credit to all of the fine talent that worked at Motown other than the Funks. For the sake of christianity please search your heart and not be so negative and mean spirited. Just enjoy your life.Jack Ashford the Funk Brothers
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:31 pm: |
HEY JACK: I'M SURE THAT 99.9 PERCENT OF THE AUDIENCE TOOK THE "CHICKEN" REMARK FOR WHAT IT WAS...A PRETTY FUNNY *JOKE*!!!...AS FOR THE OTHER .9 PERCENT...THEY SHOULD JUST GO AND CHOKE THEIR *OWN* CHICKEN!!!...REGARDS...STUBASS
By phillysoulman (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:07 pm: |
Hey Rich..
Whats with al that blatant racist crap?
It was truly uncalled for and appalling and an apopogy would be in order right about now.
By stephanie (64.63.221.17) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:34 pm: |
I have been reading these postings and I must say I thought I was the only person that thought the world of Suzanne DePasse!!!! First of all I think that Rich owes everyone an apology!!!
Second of all I would like to thank Bob Ohlsson for his input he was there and knows that it was the work of everyone at Motown and HE always gives everyone their credit he is do darn humble!!!
Thirdly, I would like to say that If it were not for the books of Mary Wilson and Raynoma and some of the others oh Mr Weldon McDougal much more than some others we wouldnt know crap about the funk brothers and of course the ultimate film SITSOM!!! If BG or Miss Depasse gave a damn about the history of Motown they both have the resources and the money to tell the story and if they had the guts to tell the true story. They can leave some of the dirt out I think they think that people want to know if they slept together or something. I could care less about dirt I got my gossip from all of the other Motown books I would like to know more about the music but when Miss Thing tells her story it will be all about BG and his empire. I wish an outsider like Sue could do the interviews and let Spike Lee make the film. He would get the essence of Detroit better than Miss Depasse would. I had a lot of respect for her in reference to her production of Lonesome Dove but I think that Chris Clark could do a better job of telling the Motown story based on Miss Depasse and the Temptations movie.
This woman is not a stupid woman and Im sure she is capable of telling a really good story. She can leave out the mess and still tell a good story. Better yet Im sure if Raynoma had the money she could do it. There are many people who have told their faults in the movie I dont see why BG couldnt expose himself now. I was utterly shocked that his book didnt talk more about the Funk Brothers and their contributions. When I saw an Interview that I have on tape of him talking about Motown to Barbara Walters and he was promoting his booked I almost fell on the floor when he said that he never jilted the people at Motown!!!!Yes SITSOM is part of the Motown story but for those who say its only the musicians no one else was going to tell it. If you all are waiting for a full fledged TRUE story of Motown either BG is going to have to die before it gets done or Smokey and some of the other folks will be bold enough to tell it but until BG gives the OK I dont think its going to happen. If you let Ms Depasse tell it the whole thing will be whitewashed.
I want to know about the Marvelettes and Jr Walker and all of the other important figures too but if Jr Walker gets 30 seconds on Motown 25 and the Marvelettes are not there at all dont think Ms Depasse will have them in a movie either it will be all about the Svengali Mr Gordy,,
Stephanie
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:45 am: |
The first 25 years, and none of the original musicians were there. What makes it a double kick in the ask, the fact that Jamerson moved from Detroit to LA, and was still not invited. Shame on you award winning DePasse seeing as Jamerson along with the other Funks, along with the engineers and techs, made you lots of money.
By Fred (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:52 am: |
Motown was something special and unique. The fact that SITSOM focused on the Funk Brothers is no slight on anyone else who played a part in the story.
Would Motown have been MOTOWN without the Funk Brothers? No. Would it have been MOTOWN without the special talents of the writers, producers, engineers and executives? No, again. There are plenty of stories left to tell. Will the contributions of the Funk Brothers be diminished when these stories are told? I sincerely doubt it.
SITSOM, when you come down to it, is a compelling film because it was able to capture the personalities involved. Those of you who know the men know how close the movie came to Jack Ashford's grace, Joe Hunter's honesty, Joe Messina's pure joy of living and all the rest.
Can the same be done for the rest of Motown? To be honest, six months ago I would have cringed at the idea of a movie about producers or engineers as just so many talking heads, but then I saw "The Language of Music" about Tom Dowd, and I know now that one can be done in an entertaining, informing and downright inspiring way. The Dowd film points out another problem with finishing the Motown "family album," though. It has yet to find a distributor for theatrical release.
There are two reasons we can talk about SITSOM now; Allan Slutsky's near-demonic determination that it be made and the fact that his dream, including the concert, was a marketable film. It is a lot more fun watching the Funks play than watching (even) Tom Dowd push slides, although there are few better depictions I have ever seen of a man happy at his work.
Ralph and Stu have adequately addressed Rich's comments about Tom Scott, but in case Rich wasn't aware of it, that "hot" white producer, Don Was, grew up on Motown as a kid in Detroit, and if you don't hear his attention to the heart and soul of a song, straight down to the right musicians, and if you don't know where that comes from, you just aren't paying attention.
By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.155) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:51 am: |
Harry - I cannot wait for the new DVD, which is due out this year of the movie. We now have a 'NTSC' playing DVD machine, which means I can order the US version of this. I am thrilled and feel privileged to learn more about this, from those working on the project. It was good to meet you last month. Thank you for everything Harry.
By Rich (162.33.234.216) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:30 am: |
I apologize for the unnecesary racial inflection, I should have simply made my silly little point, which was that Tom Scott & Don Was weren't there, and left it at that. As the film ends and I'm recalling two brief interviews with Don Was, it bothered me somewhat, probably more so now that he's gone, that there wasn't an utterance from Rudy Robinson ... who was DETROIT!!! It bothered me that Tom Scott got more camera time than Rudy.
I love the film and the multi-cultural nature of the funk brothers story, it stands on it own without any need for modern day reflection from fans of the the music regardless of who they became in the business or where they grew up. Don Was adds nothing to the film other than taking time away from others who were there. Babbitt, Messina & Coffey deserved all of the time they got, they probably should have received even more, considering their incredible contributions. But its not my film. The film makers had the right to do it any way they wanted. And I applaud their efforts. Everybody's gonna have something they don't like about any film they see. I didn't like that Tom Scott stood up and still don't. He wasn't there.
By Wonder B (81.248.163.47) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:15 am: |
Carl Dixon, the DVD has been out for over a month now soi you should check out your local store or order that double DVD on the net like on www.dvdplanet.com (they take off 30% on retail price of ANY DVD)
To Rich, who would you have picked to play on Shotgun? I think Tom Scot is one of the sax greats and he's proven so for the past 30 years or so... If he was center stage it's probably because this song is all about the sax musically and his solo was a fitting tribute to Jr Walker.. he didn't get into some totally jazzy escapade as he could have too... Anyway race has no place in music, there are good musicians of any colour... and it is even best when they play together...
Fred Wesley was playing in Paris this weekend and his keyboard player has been Peter Madsen for a long time and no wonder why... the man is brilliant... and white LOL
Wonder B
By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:39 am: |
Don Was spoke as a bass player, describing Jamerson's incredible technique, and as an outsider, yeah. You need that in a documentary to balance the inside voices.
Was learned his producing chops at the legendary United Sound Systems on Grand Blvd., he would sweep the studio out, he said, just to hang out, learn and work. So he's hardly a carpetbagger.
By Eli (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:53 am: |
Rich..There were many in the film who "werent there" as you say so why single out Tom Scott? The film paid homage and served as a musical testimonial to those who were there.
And yes, Tom Scott did a superb Shotgun!!
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:19 am: |
Rich:
Tom Scott was a disciple of another sax great, the late Oliver Nelson - a man of color who led a multi-racial big band during his all-too-short life as a bandleader and arranger. Tom was barely nineteen when Oliver let him play a killer solo on Miles Davis' "Milestones" on the (sadly-out-of-print) Impulse LP "Live In Los Angeles". I highly doubt that Oliver hired Tom because he was a "skinny white boy".
Tom was placed in the band and film because he can play like a mutha------- and has a high regard for Motown, just like the additional drummer & backup singers Allen brought in from Philadelphia. Sure there are other great saxophonists who happen to be Black - Joshua Redman & Greg Osby to name a few. But Tom was chosen for the gig and was a wise choice IMO.
In fact, Tom should be thanked for his appearance here in NYC when SITSOM made its debut at the Apollo Theatre. When singer Mario (or was it Musiq?) was flubbing the words to "Shotgun" during the Funks' live performance, Tom stepped off the platform earlier than he needed to and saved the performance from going to hell with his killer playing.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:25 am: |
Folks:
I read the Billboard interview with Suzanne De Passe and was ready to cancel my subscription.
That just about covers how I feel about what she said.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:27 am: |
FINAL TO RICH!!!...APOLOGY ACCEPTED...HOWEVER...I FEEL THAT YOU FAILED TO GRASP THE CONCEPT OF THE FILM...IN THAT...THE FILM WASN'T MADE JUST TO TAKE MOTOWNIFILES BACK ON A TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANE...BUT TO EXPOSE TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE JUST WHAT WAS GOING ON BACK THEN...AND WHO BETTER THAN DON WAS...WHO BY THE WAY CONDUCTS THE ORCHESTRA FOR THE "OSCARS"...AND HAS A STRONG DETROIT BACKGROUND...TO BREAK IT DOWN TO THOSE NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT MOTOWN AND "THE FUNKS" WERE ALL ABOUT!!!...AS FOR TOM SCOTT...I JUST DON'T THINK YOU GET IT!!!...CHAKA KAHN WASN'T THERE...GERALD LAVERT WASN'T THERE...JOAN OSBOURNE WASN'T THERE...AND FROM WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE...YOU WEREN'T THERE EITHER!!!...STUBASS
By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:22 pm: |
Oops United is on Second, right? I think of everything in the New Center area as being on Grand. The fabulous, about to be re-invented United Sound ...
By Rich (162.33.234.122) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:44 pm: |
I know you're across the pond Wonder B - but c'mon let's be real, in America race plays a major role in everything business and marketing related, including the music and film industry. That's just the way it is.
Personally, I don't care if Tom Scott or Don Was are white, black, green or yellow. The focus of the film was to shine a light on the creativity, lives and accomplishments of a tight-knit group of Detroit musicians who contributed so much to the musical-fabric of America that they have become part of our culture and accordingly, we should know their names and stories. For me what gave the film its magic was the devestating combination of first-hand witness along with the character of musicians who presented their story as well as their expressions of love for the music as they joyfully presented their songs. They need no affirmation from anyone, they only needed the forum to present themselves.
In my mind, it runs counter to the purpose of the film to give widely recognized folk, be they white, black, green, yelllow or purple, more media exposure. I'd have felt exactly the same, had been Spike Lee or Ed Bradley waxing poetic on the lives of the Funk Brothers. That's nice guys, but in the words of Bobby Eli - you were not there.
Kevin, I'd have preferred that somebody who was actually there to play have played any and all solos, if that couldn't have been accomplished I'd have preferred they select another tune. But its not my film and I'll more than gladly take it as it is with Tom Scott & Don Was. We're talking about degrees of greatness, not major flaws or shortcomings.
Peace
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:19 pm: |
Rich:
Yes, it would've been great to have Mike Terry (baritone sax), Beans Bowles (flute & sax), Ron(?) Wakefield (sax) and many others who were there to be in the movie & play their old parts. But, as Allen Slutsky said, many of these folks turned down the opportunity. Also, he had to answer to commerce - in other words stick to the hit tunes almost everyone knows. Allen & company probably thought of the hell they would've caught if they didn't feature a Jr. Walker tune in the film. Like you said, this is about degrees of greatness, which is what the Funks and their supporting players (Tom Scott included) had shown.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By HW (12.110.192.128) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:58 pm: |
BTW - Kasuka Mafia (nee Norris Patterson), an original Motown horn player, recreates his own solo in the film in addition to Tom Scott recreating Junior's.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 03:24 pm: |
Harry:
I don't have the CD in front of me...which tune did Norris/Kasuka play on? Thanks.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By Wonder B (80.14.145.197) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 03:59 pm: |
OK Rich I understand... although I still love this movie...! LOL
As for the race being involved in every aspect of the music business I am not really qualified to speak about it, but it seems to me that there are a great many black artists topping the charts these days with the rappers and stuff... along with black producers... I don't like today's music so I won't comment very long (!) on the subject...
And on the same subject but a little different, my wife being black I understand quite a few 'other' aspects of life... although I don't think we experienced any problems during our numerous trips to the US... but of course that doesn't necessarily mean that everything's OK...
Let's say that it has improved quite a bit since the 60's...
Wonder B
By Mark (69.0.8.15) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:16 pm: |
Been listening to the "Hitsville USA" box in the car today. The Brothers were, and are, amazing. What a legacy!
By Bob Olhsson (12.93.85.165) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:29 pm: |
We saw the Dowd film at the Nashville Film Festival. It's fantastic and another unique and great chapter in American music history.
If I remember correctly, it took SITSOM a year to get distribution after it reached the same point in the process that the Dowd film is at. Like SITSOM it is a documntary and not a drama.
By Steve LItos (209.100.86.4) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:46 pm: |
Kevin - He's in the horn section and he takes the solo in "Ain't Too Proud To Beg". (The movie & the hit single).
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:12 pm: |
Thanks, Steve.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By HW (12.110.192.128) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:05 pm: |
what he said
BTW, while watching the DVD, click the subtitle button on your remote to get to the trivia track that runs across the screen during the film - that info pops up there as well.
By bump (213.123.119.218) on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 02:38 am: |
bump
By Allen (24.165.82.46) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 05:54 am: |
I saw my first music teacher in the horn section of SITSOM. Trumpeter Maurice "RoadRunner" Davis. Jamerson Jr. and I had him as our instructor at Noble Jr. High.
Mr. Davis was short to us even back then. But you didn't dare piss him off. He'd have no objection to tossing you on your ass.
Allen
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 01:39 pm: |
Allen:
To think, if we had more music teachers like Maurice Davis today, the quality of music would be much higher (and certain producers today would be floor sweepers because he would've tossed out the rotten apples long ago!).
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 07:53 pm: |
Since this "is" Soulful Detroit, here's an update we slipped in on our favorite guys:
http://www.detnews.com/2003/entertainment/0306/19/g01-196910.htm
By HW (68.37.216.164) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 12:22 pm: |
http://www.burnsfilmcenter.org/FilmProgramming/Docs/0307series_afterdark.html#motown
If you're in the area...