By Keith Herschell - London (81.135.66.16) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 05:54 am: |
I don't know if it is the same in the US, but in the UK the term R & B has been hijacked to mean modern black music. I have always termed the music I love as Soul and R & B . If I now use that term it is misconstrued. I appreciate that things have to evolve, but how can music that is now called R & B, be used in the same breath as music by Joe Turner, Ray Charles, Wynonie harris etc. The only explanation that I can come up with, is that the new R & B music stands for Rubbish & Bland
By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 09:54 am: |
SORRY KEITH: I GOT CONFUSED BY THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD ...THINKING THAT OUR FRIEND AND FELLOW POSTER...R&B...HAD BEEN CONVICTED OF SOMETHING...AND JUST WANTED TO KNOW HOW MUCH TIME HE GOT!!!...SORRY...STU
By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 09:58 am: |
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA,GOOD ONE STU,OF COURSE YOU KNOW I WOULD HAVE CALLED YOU FOR BAIL!
By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:24 am: |
BUT ON A SERIOUS NOT KEITH,FROM WHAT I'M HEARING ON THE RADIO THESE DAYS I LIKE YOU FIND IT VERY HARD TO COMPARE THESE ARTIST WITH THE R&B GREATS OF THE PAST,MOST OF TODAYS MUSIC SOUNDS MORE POP THAN SOUL AND NOWHERE NEAR RHYTHM AND BLUES,WHICH IS THE TERM THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN DEAR TO ME BECAUSE THAT'S THE MUSIC I GROW UP ON WHICH EXPAINS MY USE OF THE INITIALS.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:57 am: |
To me what the industry calls today's music R&B doesn't hold a candle to the music that earned that title. Then again that's only my opinion.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:00 pm: |
YOU'RE NOT ALONE KEV,YOU'RE NOT ALONE.
By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:40 pm: |
Kinda like "Motown" being the catchword for '60's soul in general. But at least Billboard calls it the R&B/Hip-Hop chart, don't they?
By Jim G (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:47 pm: |
According to Arnold Shaw in his excellent book "Honkers And Shouters", the term Rhythm and Blues "came into use in the late 1940s after Billboard magazine substituted it for 'race'. The trade magazine made the change in its issue of June 25, 1949, in a chart headed until then "Top 15 Best Selling Race Records."
From 1942-45 'race' records were collected under the "Harlem Hit Parade" column.
Before 1942 black recordings were generally not broken out as a separate category.
And, yes, today's music is dressed up in R&B garb but it is a far cry indeed from the saxophone-driven high octane jump of 60 years ago...
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:51 pm: |
Jim G - Would you put the 60's Sound of Motown into a category? Thanks!
By Jim G (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:01 pm: |
Hi Sis,
I think Motown is a bona fide category.
It is (in my opinion) a fusion of gospel and pop, seasoned with the blues and played by (at least in the early days) jazz musicians.
I think the early years of Motown are the apex of a unique sound and style. The recordings have a purity, an effervescence, that cannot be improved.
It's the same feeling I get from Bird's Dial recordings or Billie Holiday's Vocalions or Johnny Hodges' 1930s small group sessions: A melding of culture and technique and feeling that is too marvelous for words to describe...
The later recordings are wonderful in their own sweet way with a unique sound, one that differs from the early stuff.
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:43 pm: |
Thank you Jim G!!
By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 08:47 am: |
To me R&B is the Ike Turner revue back in the 50s.
True R&B was walking into any Detroit club on 12th st. or in that area in the 50s that had a band. If they weren't playing jazz you can bet they were playing good old jumping rhythm& blues.
By LG Nilsson (213.89.30.85) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 03:55 pm: |
... the progress in Billboard of "our" music...
Lars
By Nish (170.224.224.38) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 04:17 pm: |
You're right, and since I'm 22, when I say "I listen to R&B" people automatically assume I'm blasting Ashanti and Usher. It's quite annoying. I really mean "R&B, i.e., Nathaniel Mayer, Stick Mcghee, the Dominoes, Ike Turner, Ruth Brown, Louis Jordan, Bullmoose Jackson, etc." not this toothless crap these folks try to shove down my generation's throat!
By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 04:34 pm: |
Great thread and excellent information from Jim G and Lars who corroborate's Jim's info with yet another fine scan!
Interesting to study the chart. In 1969 they had a "50 Best Selling Soul Singles" category.
It took them 4 years to increase this number by 10!? 9 years later they come up with a category called "Black Singles". I'm sure Teena Marie was in the Black Singles category.
Nice history lesson gents. Jim, Bird on Dial. I'm THERE! I have some recordings of Bird around '46 from bootleg vinyl that I haven't been able to find the same quality in Digital.
EVERY CD I've found of these sessions, the quality of sound sucks. I'll email you privately the info on the lp. I think it was a series called Hall of Fame Jazz greats? I bought it in '78. It contains THEE definitive "Out of Nowhere" in a quality of sound unmatched by anything I've heard.
By Soul Sister (65.43.153.219) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 09:40 pm: |
R&B was Soul music of yesteryear. L don't think they should use the term R&B for today's style of what they are labeling R&B, it has no merit to compare to R&B or Soul music of the 40s. 50s,60s, or early 70s. When I turn on a video channel that says R&B, I'm looking for Jackie Wilson, James Brown, Wicked Pickett, Sam & Dave, Little Anthony & Imperials, 5 Stairsteps, The Manhattans The O'Jays, etc...not that imitation stuff/pop their showing today. It drives me crazy when they term todays mediocre music R&B @#$%^&*()_+>!!!
By Eli (151.197.47.219) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 09:42 pm: |
The story goes that Jerry Wexler, the long time Atlantic exec, coined the phrase when he was an employee of Billboard magazine in the very early fifties.
He was the person who changed the name of the "Race Music" charts to the Rhythm and Blues because in his opinion the music exemplified a hybrid of both genres at the time.
Yes, I do agree that the current crop of music that is assigned that tag, bears no resemblence to the R&B that we al know and love.