By ted cogswell (66.167.48.125) on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 07:56 pm:

Bobby,

Someone posted a Philly Trivia Quiz over at the Philly Soul yahoo group and I submitted all the answers I knew, but one I didn't know was: "7- What group was the song "Side Show" originally written for?",... could ya' fill me in on that one?

thanks,

ted from seattle

By carter (66.167.48.125) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:47 am:

Was it Major Harris? Or did he record it after Blue Magic?

By Eli (151.197.31.155) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:03 am:

Hi Ted....Wassup???
Sideshow wasn't written for anyone in particular at the time, as it just evolved from an ad that I saw in the Phily paper advertising the circus which still was in a tent and there was a sideshow as well .
When I saw that word "sideshow" printed in a 3-d looking font with the word "see" followed by exclamation points, my mind started racing and I quickly grabbed a pen and started to scrawl some sporadic jiberish on my yellow pad, but...but I changed the "characters" to victims of love gone bad.
There was a group in town visiting me from Bermuda called Formula 3 who I met there during one of my many trips there at the time.
They had a sweet soul Philly kinda vibe and they were the first to learn it "right out of the box"!!
I wish that I could find there wonderful demo as I would love to include it in a compilation.
Another early group to rehearse Sideshow was Purple Reign.
The song was shown to Thom Bell for the Stylistics but he passed on it.
The rest is history.

By Eli (151.197.31.155) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:05 am:

Major recorded it a year later for his My Way album..

By ted cogswell (66.167.48.125) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:10 am:

I'll bet you that the person who wrote that trivia quiz had the Stylistics in mind. Funny how little bits of information get out and get twisted around. It sounds like it certianly wasn't written "for" anybody at all, but I could see how someone could read "The song was shown to Thom Bell for the Stylistics but he passed on it," and jump to the conclusion that you wrote it for them.

Makes me wonder how many other historical inacuracies are floating around out there being accepted as fact. What's the strangest or most off-base thing you've ever heard about yourself or a project you were involved with?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:19 am:

Great story Eli.

By Eli (151.197.31.155) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:39 am:

Thanks sis!!!

Ted.. another "inaccuracy" so to speak
has been the assumption over the years that I could not possibly be Bobby Eli because "there is this brother from Philly by that name who plays on all those records" and assuming by association that I must be African American because of that.

I have had people call me a liar and when they finally meet "Bobby Eli"they will tell them that he has an imposter!!!!!

Another time, I was over at Tower records in their video section and I noticed two "sistas"
standing there and overheard one mention a Luther Vandross video.
I casually sauntered over and volunteered my assistance.
I told them that the only video there was Live at Wembey.
One girl said, and I paraphrase...
"how you know dat"??? I said that it is because I have a song on there which I wrote.
And then one rolled her eyes and said to the other... "what dat white man know 'bout Lufer"??
"he be lyin an s**t, he probly tryin to pick us up and s**t"!!
Maybe if I had on some fly gear and some serious ice instead of a t shirt and jeans, thing would have been different..maybe not.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 07:05 am:

Bobby - that reminds me of my first visit to the best-stocked Reggae record store in the Black community of South Manchester. This was just before the riots in the early eighties, and while the place wasn't yet a no-go area, white faces were pretty much unseen in the neighbourhood, unless driving quickly through.

I'd just returned from a trip, shooting a video in the Caribbean, and was eager to pick up some of the music I'd heard over there. My entry into the store was like a scene out of a movie - the appearance of the "stranger", accompanied by whispers and suspicious looks. I decided to "boldly go" straight up to the counter. Before I could speak, a very tall guy with locks looked me straight in the eye and told me, 'we don't sell no pop records here.'

I replied that I was looking for the new Gregory Isaacs 12", and did they have a certain Soca album I was looking for. He produced the two titles with a look of astonishment: "how d'you know about these?" I explained. Then I was surrounded by a whole crowd, asking questions, and plying me for news of Grenada. The whole scene was quite surreal, but for at least a few months I was able to visit the store and be welcome. Once the place erupted in riots a little while later, that was sadly the end of it for me.

By Eli (141.151.94.143) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 10:05 am:

The love and appreciation of all forms of music should transcend all racial boundaries.
we should abide by the words of Kenny Gamble.."Music is the healing force of the world"
I Love Music.1975

By ted cogswell (66.167.48.125) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:02 pm:

I too experienced that kind of thing when I worked at a mostly "urban" record store in New Brunswick, NJ about ten years ago. Kids would be shocked at how much I knew about all the newest rap singles and underground hip hop, but I looked at that as part of my job. More enjoyable was when their parents would come in looking for The Whispers or the Intruders or some other name from their youth that they couldn't imagine some early-20's whiteboy knowing anything about. Seeing the smile on those folks' faces when I would find that one song they were looking for was one of the great joys that kept me in that job as long as I was.

By stephanie (64.63.221.12) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 04:24 pm:

I remember when my friends used to laugh at me because (Im 40 and they still laugh) that I have the Monkees and the Dave Clark Five and Iron Butterfly and the Shangrilas and the New Colony Six and more...with my Motown and Prince and Ohio Players stuff. I like all music and I thank my mom that she raised me that way or I would have missed out on some good music. YES I was one of the ignorants also that thought that Bobby Eli was black...LOL I learned a couple of months ago that he is not...thank you
Stephanie

By Beebopman (68.73.25.90) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 10:11 pm:

Eli, Stepahnie:

I'm with you on all counts. Color is meaningless. It's about the music man. If you can groove to it; relate to the words; That's what it's about. My band in the 60's was called the Bellhops. We were mixed and we jammed. We were like family...still are. I hate it when color divides people and causes all these stupid ass barriers.

Beebopman

By Some colored guy (141.152.251.40) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 10:54 pm:

Amen!!

I never understood what the fuss was all about anyway!!
My goodness..we are not prejudiced against rainbows, are we??
How about zebras? , crayons? tri colored pasta?
jeez then.. why should we be prejudiced against one of natures most beautiful wonders?

Vive la difference!!!!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 12:52 pm:

Eli & Stephanie:
Like both, I've been perceived as being "weird" or "trying to be white" for liking music by artists that are not the same color as me. I've dealt with this from childhood to the present and I just deal with such ignorance with contempt.
Something happened at the Funk Brothers show here in NYC that is related to what we're talking about. Before the show started, a couple were talking about the Funks and the DVD. When the woman commented that the Funks were a group of 25 to 30 people that rotated five at a time, I clarified that there was a core group that played on several sessions and reeled off the names of those involved (all Funks alive and deceased). She looked at me as said,"Gee you knew this off the top of your head, I wouldn't expect someone like you to know this." I just looked at her and turned around toward the stage, where a young Black man said "I heard what she said - you're a better person than me because I wouldn't have just turned around."
The people we deal with in this world....
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Eli (151.197.184.19) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 01:17 pm:

Yes Kev..The people we deal with in the world !!

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

Steph brings up an interesting point...
....that leads to Top 40 radio in the '60's. When you think of the diversity of the music played at the time, from New Colony Six (eeerrrggghhhh) to Ray Stevens (Everything Is Beautiful) to the Tempts, Tops, Spinners, et al, it lead to a more divergant understanding of music as a whole, something that is lacking in this overly formatted era. Englebert Humperdink to Wilson Pickett was an awful w i d e spread of musical styles.....

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 01:43 pm:

I"ve been attending a Native American pow-wow on Walpole Island on the Canadian side of Lake St.Clair for many years now.The Indian nation that lives there invites a different indigenous group from around the world to perform there at the same time the pow-wow is going on, to show support for them.
One year they had a group from Senegal,Africa performing.After the show I saw them standing around with their drums and talking to people.I started talking to them and asked if I could play their drums.They said yes,go ahead and try.
When I started playing,they went from complete indifference to all walking over.They were astonished that a white boy could keep up with them.We ended up having a great impromptu jam session.When you judge someone by the color of their skin,your going to be usually wrong.

This is why I get so pissed on this forum when some people make a blanket judgement of a race or nationality.
Lynn

By stephanie (64.63.221.13) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

Hey Lynn
I remember the Indian Groups too
Buffy Sainte Marie - Until Its Time for you to go and Redbone - Witch Queen of New Orleans and Come and Get Your Love....I think Pat and Lolly Vegas headed that group.
Stephanie

By Scratcher (65.132.79.4) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

Lynn, you just wont let this die will you? I wasn't making a blanket remark about Arabs I was saying that I couldn't tell the difference between the good Arabs and those affiliated with terroist cells with intentions to do harm to America and its citizens. If you can (tell the difference), than why don't you apply for a position with the government, they need people like you. You'll be an asset. As an African-American I experienced some form of racism everyday, albeit, mostly subtle; you don't know me, and don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. You also chided me stating something that the government told All Americans to do. This was a dead issue as far as I was concerned Ralph but some people like to keep shit going and I couldn't let that uncalled for dig go unchallenged.

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:25 pm:

Scratcher,I apologised and wanted to buy you a drink. I wasn't even thinking of you when I made this last statment.They subtle racisim that your talking about I've experienced working with Mr.Bo and the Bluesboys.Not to mention my very indian looking Mexican wife and children.
Again if I've offended you,I'm sorry.

As far as working for the government,as someone mentioned,I don't know my foot from my brain,so I'd probably make a really good government official. LOL

By Scratcher (65.132.79.4) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 02:31 pm:

No problem Lynn, I guess I took that post to personal. I, and others, spend a lot time trying to get sports teams to change logos that offend some Native Americans. I do it mostly by letters, emails and faxes but some friends actually protest in front of stadiums. Many teams have changed but I do believe Chief Wahoo will be the Cleveland Indians' logo for some time. It's a moneymaker and the owner of the Indians isn't about to give up the revenue it generates.

By dvdmike (12.84.113.226) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 05:10 pm:

Shoot, I listen to Steely Dan, The Buckinghams, Gary Puckett & The Union Gap and The Beatles almost as much as I listen to Chicago Soul, The Sound Of Philadelphia and Motown. IT'S ALL GOOD!!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 07:49 pm:

Thanks, Mike - for putting it all in perspective.
Now, where's my 45 of the Buckinghams' "Don't You Care".....
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Sly fan (67.119.53.246) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 07:54 pm:

From James Brown to James Taylor...its all good...

By ted cogswell (66.167.48.149) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 08:16 pm:

I just went to a 50% off store-closing sale and picked up the two Robert Plant-Jimmy Page albums used and a brand new copy of the Dells 2-disc set!

By 1wicked (24.126.64.120) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 10:52 pm:

(For a long time)I didn't know Paul Riser (among others) was Black...and I didn't know that Dennis Coffey and Bobby Eli (among others) weren't. It wasn't relevant. They'd be equally as adept and wonderful at what they do if they were purple with pink racing stripes. Just take me back to a time when "Crossover" wasn't the "Holy Grail"...and the music stood on its own. You remember...like that "No Color Lines" time when EVERYBODY was diggin' "Frankenstein" by Edgar Winter, Coffey's "Scorpio", K&TG's "Funky Stuff", Elton's "Bennie & The Jets", Motown, and even ole errrghonaut James Taylor's "Fire & Rain". It was *ALL* about the music.....no more/no less.

By Eli (151.197.37.148) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 11:11 pm:

Well said Twicked.
The early to mid sevevties were the Halcyon years insofar as cross pollenization of musical tastes were concerned. It was my time and my "fifteen minutes" so to speak and the memories associated with that time of my life will always live on.

Look at MFSB as an example.
If you walked into the studio and the WHOLE crew was there, you wouldnt find a better "rainbow coalition" anywhere!!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:20 am:

It would be great if DMeikle could get a place for everyone to jam. I'm going to find out where they have musicians or singers sitting in on Fridays. Wouldn't that be a great JAM SESSION? Bert's Place on Broadway might have it. I believe that prior to the SITSOM, Uriel and Pistol had a weekly set there.

Sue - Do you think BoMac's will be set up by May 23rd?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:23 am:

If someone will get in touch with Ralph Armstrong, I'm sure he knows all of the sit in clubs for Fridays.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:42 am:

When Jamerson Jr. sat in at the Roostertail, he used Babbitt's bass. When Wendal sat in at Bert's at Pistol's Wake, he used Armstrong's bass.

By Keith Herschell - London (213.122.56.28) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 05:36 am:

I would like to reiterate Berry Gordys' slogan "It's whats in the grooves that counts". Listen to Otis Reddings' version of BB Kings 'Rock me baby', and the scorching bluesy guitar solo by Steve Cropper. Some of the funkiest music ever recorded was at the Fame studios, where I think at least half the musicians were white. And back to Stax, Duck Dunn must be up there with the great R&B base players. Think of all the white writers and producers that cut great R&B/Soul tunes; Lieber and Stoller, Bert Berns, Jerry Wexler, Doc Pomus, Jerry Ragovoy (can you get more soulful than 'Cry Baby' or 'It was easier to hurt her' by Garnett Mimms ?). The list is endless, and I haven't even mentioned the great people that are on this forum.
However it does fascinate me to hear the stories of multi racial bands on the road, especially in the sixties. For instance, what was it like for a white musician to step onto the stage of the Apollo, in front of an all black audience. Did they feel they had to prove that they could 'Get down' with the best of them.
(At this point I think of Lattimores' 'There's a redneck in the Soulband')

I would like like to draw a paralel with something I am heavily involved with, which is Amateur Boxing. I am involved with one of the top clubs in the UK, located in London and we have an equal number of Black and White boxers. We also have had several foreign students or workers who have boxed in their home countries, and have boxed for us whilst staying in the UK. (The strangest was a 6.5 feet tall nordic looking guy from Chechnya, who was a Muslim called Mohammed !)
Colour is never an issue. At shows (tournaments) you will often get a bout involving a black boxer from a predominately white club being cheered on by his white clubmates, against a white boxer from a predominately black club being supported by his black clubmates. All are united in their love of the sport and support for their clubmates, whatever their colour.

Listen to the lyrics of 'Colour blind' by Maze.

By Eli Ali (151.197.219.217) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:10 pm:

Well said Keith.
Prejudice of any kind is bred by ignorance.
I once heard a closed circuit speech by Louis Farrakhan who stated that Jewish people were created in a lab by space aliens!!!
Then you have ignorant and gullable people who are his followers who believe all of that stuff.
Anyway, let me get off of that now for musically. I have heard that he plays one mean fiddle!!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 02:15 pm:

LOL Eli - Yes, he was a blues singer. (LOL)

By dvdmike (12.84.98.181) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 04:27 pm:

Sis, Louis Farrakhan was a calypso singer in the fifties known as "The Charmer". He converted to Islam in 1955. He does play a mean violin, he even performed with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra a few years ago. I used to live about four blocks from him when I lived in Hyde Park.

By Eli (68.162.99.73) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 05:46 pm:

Hey sis...
Speaking of blues singers..

Name a malady or infirmity
Name a fruit
Next name a dead president(preferrably Lincoln or before)

Put them all together and you have named your very own old blues singer!!

Here is an example:

Deaf Pumpkin Washington
Here is another one:
Limp Banana Jefferson

Go ahead, now you try it!!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:32 pm:

Eli - I'm still thinking. So far I have ___, Prune Hoover. :o)

By 1wicked (24.126.64.120) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:56 pm:

Attention Deficit Disorder Pomegranite Reagan ??

By 1wicked (24.126.64.120) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:59 pm:

Oh...dead Prez. (nope...not goin there !!) and BEFORE Lincoln......(my bad !!)

By dvdmike (12.84.113.9) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

Blind Lemon Jefferson

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 07:14 pm:

LOL, you guys are funny.

By Eli (151.197.47.219) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 10:44 pm:

In Cheech and Chongs Big Bamboo you had "Blind Melon Chittlin(not a president but...)

How 'bout Aids Apple Adams???