By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 12:49 pm:

I live a few blocks from Dearborn. I see on MSNBC that the Iraqi-Americans in Dearborn are celebrating the fall of the "Dictator Saddam."

I believe Dearborn is the biggest Arab community in the States. A great portion of the gas stations in Detroit are owned by Arabs. I remember when the US was over in Iraq before, one of the gas station attendants told me he was from Iraq, and he was wealthy in his own county, but couldn't go back because he would be killed. However, yesterday when I went there, the owners told me he no longer worked there. I went to two places owned by middle easterns, and neither of them owned up to being from Irag. They said they were from Lebanon, not far from Iraq.

There has not been a night when I was not tuned into CNN. I am still afraid. Not just for the innocent and children of Irag, and our troops, but I am extemely affraid of terrorist over here.

PEACE!

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 12:54 pm:

SisDetroit,outside of living in Dearborn,living two blocks from the Dearborn border is probably the safest place in America during these troubled times.LOL

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 01:13 pm:

It's sad when folks have to refer to themselves as being from another land for fear of harm & repercussions. Just shows how far we have to go here in this country.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By hiram (159.53.238.243) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 01:16 pm:

Sis,

Lynn is 100% correct on this one.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 01:48 pm:

Hiram, yes, Lynn is right, but when the WTC was hit, I just cried my eyes out. (A cyber-friend of ours was killed, and one of our offices was in one of the buildings.) Since I am surrouned by Arabs, restaurants, and gas stations, I am probably really safe. But, I am just an old scary cat. :o)

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

HEY ALL: MOST OF THE IRAQI'S IN THE DETROIT AREA ARE OF CHALDEAN DESCENT...IRAQI CHRISTIANS WHO WERE CERTAINLY PERSECUTED BY THE HUSSEIN REGIME...AND THEY SHOULD BE HAPPY!!!...THE CHALDEANS PURCHASED MANY OF THE GROCERY STORES IN THE INNER CITY AFTER THE CHAIN STORES STARTED PULLING OUT...MAKING THEM A FAMILY AFFAIR WITH THEIR FAMILIES WORKING LONG HOURS TO KEEP LABOR COSTS DOWN!!!...MANY OF THEM HAVE BECOME QUITE SUCCESSFUL...AND HAVE EXPANDED THEIR BUSINESS TO THE SUBURBS!!!...STU

By Patrick (68.73.196.25) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

Good for them. Now they can be reunited with their family and friends in the old-country.

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:10 pm:

Sis,I feel for you.My daughters room-mate when she attended Univ. of Michigan,along with her father were killed in the World Trade Center.This just after she had told my daughter how happy she was to get a new job in her fathers office.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:23 pm:

Lynn - I believe I read about that in the paper.

StuBass - I think the biggest Caldean neighborhood is in Warren, MI.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:26 pm:

HEY SIS: I'M SURE YOU'RE RIGHT!!!... THERE ARE, HOWEVER, MANY CHALDEANS ALL OVER...INCLUDING MANY IN MY PARENTS NEIGHBORHOOD IN BLOOMFIELD HILLS!!!...

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

You are right StuBass. They are also in Farmington. They have lots of money.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:47 pm:

StuBass - Perhaps you would like to see what I've been doing over the past few weeks.

http://www.members.tripod.com/618th-airborne/307th-alumni/id4.html

By Scratcher (65.132.77.247) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:49 pm:

There are many Arabian counties, all Arabs in American don't come from Iraq. Many are from Palestine and other places, even Israel. To lump them all in one bag is wrong.

I am, however, leery that so many are in this country and you can't tell the good ones from the bad ones. What's to stop the bad ones from using their stores and service stations as bombs and blowing up whole blocks?

The Detroit area does have a large Arab community. I can remember seeing Arab merchants in Detroit in the early '70s; you didn't see them in other cities until much later.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:55 pm:

HEY SIS: GLAD TO SEE YOU'RE KEEPING ON TOP OF THINGS!!!...SOMETIMES UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS GOING ON HELPS THE ANXIETY OF UNCERTAINTY!!!...PLUS...WHEN YOU SPEAK...YOU ARE SPEAKING FROM A POSITION OF KNOWLEDGE VERSUS RAW POLITICAL PASSION!!!...STU

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 02:55 pm:

I can't tell the difference. But I know I feel safe at the gas station on my corner. I've known them for years. If I go there at night, they look out for me. You should see the artillery they have back there. :o)

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

THE THING IS SIS...NOBODY IS BORN BAD!!!...ARABS...AFRICANS...ASIANS...JEWS...CAUCASIONS...ARE ALL BORN GOOD...UNTIL SOCIETY CORRUPTS THEIR SOULS WITH HATE AND REVENGE!!!...UNFORTUNATLY...SOME ARABIC CULTURES HAVE BRED HATE INTO THEIR PEOPLE...AND THE REST OF US MUST EDUCATE THEM AS TO HOW TO LIVE IN A CIVILIZED WORLD...IF NOT...THERE'S ALWAYS TOMMY FRANKS!!!STU

By SisDetrit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

I'm hoping they are incorrect about the number of civilians killed over in Iraq. I'm thinking, however, that the previous government has placed a higher number than it really is.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 03:16 pm:

PLUS SIS: HOW MANY OF THOSE CIVILIANS WERE KILLED BY THE IRAQ REGIME AS THEY TRIED TO SURRENDER???...STU

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.101) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 03:24 pm:

How do you tell the "good ones" from the "bad ones"? The same way as with anyone else -- by their actions and their words.

The tragedy in Oklahoma City demonstrated that WASPs are perfectly capable of being homicidal terrorists, but I've learned to live among them without irrational suspicion or paralyzing fear. I figure Arab-Americans deserve the same consideration.

Regards,
Ken

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 03:29 pm:

Absolutely, Livonia Ken.

By Michael/Cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 03:45 pm:

I went on the internet to see how many Iraqis died in the last war and this is what I found:

Approximately:

115,000 soldiers
19,000 civilians
101,000 people died in the year after the war from war-related injuries.

Since this war is by all accounts considered far worse than the last one, no matter whether you are pro or con what we are doing/have done...it should give one pause about celebration.

By TonyRussi (68.210.2.125) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 04:01 pm:

Just think of the thousands of Iraqi civilians that have been saved from Saddam and his 2 butchering sons. Its always better to fight a war on foreign soil then to wait for it to come to our shores.Also, lets hope Syria,Libya, Iran& North Korea get the message loud & clear.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 04:03 pm:

North Korea is a big threat. I remember when we used to have air raid drills in school.

By Sly fan (67.115.74.6) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 05:20 pm:

Livonia Ken: You hit it right on the nail!!

By Aljaydu (68.18.112.183) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 06:24 pm:

SisDetroit, I love the site. As a Navy Vet of 15 years and a former Persian Gulf War Vet...I SALUTE YOU !!!!! Thank you !!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 06:28 pm:

Thank you so much Aljaydu - Two of my brothers (I had seven) were in the service, as you can see. One of them promised me a lobster tail dinner. Did you see the link to "British Ministry Defense?"

"I salute you Aljaydu."

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 06:47 pm:

(((MEL, and THENSOME))) I salute you, my friend.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.26) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 07:47 pm:

Livonia Ken, I take it you don't live around a lot of Arabs businesses and seldom, if ever, frequent them. People who live in neighborhoods with Arab stores are concern about what might happen if one of them decides to load up a store with bombs and set them off.

Many consider Arab merchants intruders, as some talk nasty to people, are rude, sell bad meat, and before the government put them out of the business--bought food stamps from welfare moms and crackheads for 50 cents on the dollar and redeemed them to the government for full face value. Much of this ill-gotten money was sent overseas to fund terrorists groups.

Nearly every time I'm in a Arab store, I go mostly to play the lottery, something illegal happens. I know of some merchants who allow drug dealers to sling on their premises for a cut of the profits.

Supermarkets are also concern, it's the big supermarkets who lobbied the government to do something about the food stamp scam. If any of you have noticed there aren't as many Arab grocers as they use to be. The only reason many were in business was to buy and redeemed food stamps. For many, it was never about groceries, that was a front.

I wish I could take them at face value, Ken. But no way will I. I watch them like a hawk. Just like the USA watched Asian Americans some years back. Anything suspicious gets reported.

The thing about terroism is you don't know when it's going to strike. You don't know when some nut is going to walk into a shopping mall strapped with bombs and detonate.

Ask your local gun dealer about the surge in gun sells from people who live in neighborhoods where Arab-Americans do. They usually reside in the suburbs. These are mostly white Americans strapping themselves from their neighbors because they can't tell the good ones from the bad ones Ken.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 07:53 pm:

I will admit that Blacks have had problems with the Arab store owners. As I said before they have some artillery. As far as the white community is concerned, I'm laughing. They didn't want the Blacks in Dearborn, but they opened their arms for 90,000 Arabs.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 07:58 pm:

TRUE STORY SIS: DURING THE ORVILLE HUBBARD REGIME...BLACKS AND JEWS WERE NOT WELCOME IN DEARBORN...AND NOW...IT'S BECOME THE ARAB MECCA OF THE UNITED STATES!!!...BUT AS I SAID BEFORE...THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN EVERY GROUP OF PEOPLE...AND AS ARAB EMIGREES BECOME SECOND AND THIRD GENERATION AMERICANS...THEY TEND ...AS MOST GROUPS DO...TO TAKE ON THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE REST OF THE POPULATION AT LARGE!!!...STU

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:03 pm:

If I can remember correctly, at least about 3 years ago, the Dearborn Police Department was still had about 98% white. At that time, there were 2 Hispanics. I believe one (1) Arab. I can't remember whether there were any Blacks.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Does anyone know the population of Dearborn?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:33 pm:

A 21,000lb bomb has been moved to the Persian Gulf. OMG. What is that for? I thought it was almost over. OG.

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 09:18 pm:

SisDetroit,
Yup, and I could not believe it... there is at least 'one' black 'cop' on the Dearborn police force, this was, as of two summers ago.

Saw him right there, on Michigan Avenue near Greenfield Rd., handing over a traffic ticket to some Arab female) driver, she had a shawl covering her head-- while sittin' there behind the wheel of an old 'beat-up' Toyota....

And boy, this Dearborn 'black cop', he looked to be as big as a tree-- and, HE WAS TALL!

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY STILL DO IT...BUT DEARBORN WAS THE ONLY CITY IN AMERICA TO HAVE LINCOLN TOWN CARS AS THEIR COP CARS...SOME SORT OF DEAL WITH THE FORD MOTOR COMPANY...NOW THAT'S CLASS...GOING OFF TO JAIL IN A "TOWN CAR"!!!...STU

By HORSE (68.61.77.137) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:20 pm:

Scratcher,

by reading your statement, you sound like an absolute bigot and racist. I am an American who is of full blooded Arabic decent. My father & mother were of full blooded Arabic decent. My father was born in the middle east and come to the U.S. at 18 yrs of age and joined the U.S. Army. He served 2 full terms in the military and was awarded the honor of SOLDIER OF THE YEAR. That honor represents being the ideal soldier for the United States Of America. That honor is given to only ONE soldier per year and his picture hangs in the White House. He was also a store owner in Black Bottom when I was growing up and he treated ALL patrons equally including the whores and drunks or black or white. I think it would be extremely ignorant to watch his character like a hawk by stereo typing Arabs. That 1 Dearborn police office happens to be my sons uncle. I've read this thread and heard a large amount of ignorance, I find your statement along with a few others as very offensive. Yeah, the right of being American allows for freedom of speech, but unfortunately it alots for racism, bigotry and igonorance. I could go on a lot further but find it not worth wasting my time on this forum. Ralph, you can yank this if you find it off base, but I hope that you can find your way to let me express myself before exiting.

HORSE

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.41.191) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:21 pm:

When I was a boy, Orville Hubbard was the mayor of Dearborn.

Any black who did not move on was run out of town.

I wonder what Orville is thinking now as he looks down from his pearch in his version of "heaven."

Probably: "Better towel heads then "Head Rags!"

It is good to learn that the people of Dearborn are so happy that they cheer in the streets.

Mike McLean

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:34 pm:

Sorry Horse if you've been offended. You'be been a great participant. We are one in the same.

Ralph you can pull the thread if you wish.

PEACE!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:37 pm:

Jim G - Perhaps that guy was so big, they were afraid not to hire him. :o)

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:40 pm:

Scratcher obviously doesn't live in Detroit -- here there's been such a sizeable Arabic population for years that it doesn't matter where you live in metro Detroit; you work, do business with or go to school with at least some Arab-Americans.

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:44 pm:

SisDetroit,
The current population at the present for Dearborn, Michigan... is 97,775, and counting!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:01 pm:

Mike when did you come out of hiding? I just re-read your post. You should have been a poet.

I am just as afraid of white militia, as I am of any other terrorist. I went up north once and stopped at a gas station. There was an old white man sitting in a rocking chair by a wood stove. I asked the price of something, and the way he looked at me with such hate, a chill went all over me. I knew if we didn't get the hell out of there right then, they would never find our body parts.

By HORSE (68.61.77.137) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:12 pm:

He came out of hiding when he felt he needed to make a racist RAG HEAD /TOWEL HEAD remark like the rest of the idots.

Sis, Are there any other races that you might be uncomfortable with?

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:33 pm:

Horse,
Sis is a good friend to people of different races, I can attest, and she posted kind thoughts to you, saying you were a valuable contributor here.

Earlier here she posted that some Arab-American gas station owners in her neighborhood always look out for her.

I'm not surprised she's felt uncomfortable up north in Michigan. I love the lakes and countryside, but I'm always amazed and a little unnerved that there are few African-Americans, and the locals are pretty used to that.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:40 pm:

Yes, Horse. I am uncomfortable with anyone who has evil intentions. Whether they are Arab, White, Black, or Japanese, etc.

I live around the area where they have been arresting suspected terrorist, and you know for yourself there have been quite a few suspects in this area. This word "embedded" means, there could be Al Quida (sp) embedded within the community.

Being black, I am well aware of the hatred towards my race. It is the "color" of my skin that causes this hatred. I believe if I had been any other color, I would not be the underdog.

During this time as the US is over in Iraq, and the warnings from the leader of the AlQuida, I am dreadfully afraid of attacks by the group. (and any other racist group.) I was shaking when I retired running from the federal building, AlQuida to my left, McVay (sp) to my right.

By spinnin wheel (166.90.234.171) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:58 pm:

Those posting may consider their tone to be light when bandying about comments such as the ones Horse has pointed out, but the internet has no regard for tone and these comments seem ugly, ignorant and wholly misguided.
Perhaps its good to air these thoughts, if only to inform and, hopefully, enlighten the errant parties.
War is an ugly thing, no matter the cause and any reaction to the swift resolution should be one of relief.
Now to bring this back to the topic most here can speak on with confidence and authority and if nothing else, passion: I don't know Graham, but whenever an overseas interloper makes the rounds here in the Metro Area, word does tend to make its way among music fans. I understand that on his last visit some photos were uncovered of multi-racail soul bands that included Arab-Americans, Afro-Americans and -- if this one sounds funny than the others should too -- Caucasian-Americans. Any truth to this shocking allegation? ;)

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:59 pm:

HEY HORSE: I FEEL YA...AND UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM!!!...FIRST OF ALL...WE SHOULD ALL BE GREATFUL TO PEOPLE LIKE YOUR FATHER...WHO CAME FROM ELSEWHERE...LIKE MANY OF OUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS... AND SERVED OUR COUNTRY AS BRAVELY AS HE DID!!!...IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT DURING THESE TIMES...SOME PEOPLE...OTHERWISE NOT PRONE TO SUCH OUTBURSTS...ALLOW POLITICAL PASSIONS TO CLOUD THEIR HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE!!!...YES...I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A RIGHT TO HATE SADDAM HUSSEIN...AND OTHERS LIKE HIM WHO HAVE HIJACKED AND SUBVERTED RELIGION AND NATIONAL SOVERENTY...AND I WISH NOTHING BUT THE WORST LIFE HAS TO OFFER FOR THESE TYPE OF PEOPLE!!!...BUT PEOPLE SOMETIMES FORGET...THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEIR VICTIMS ARE THE VERY PEOPLE WHOSE RELIGION AND NATIONALITY THEY SHARE!!!...LIKE I STATED EARLIER ON THIS THREAD...NO GROUP...RACE...OR RELIGION... HAS A MONOPOLY ON RIGHTOUSNESS AND VIRTUE...AND IT'S UP TO THE GOOD PEOPLE IN THE WORLD TO OVERWHELM THE BAD PEOPLE IN THE WORLD...NO MATTER WHAT THEIR BACKGROUND IS...AND DEFEND THE RIGHT OF PEOPLE THAT WANT TO LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY!!!...HORSE...YOU ARE AN ARAB...I AM A JEW...SO F$&$ING WHAT...WE ARE BROTHERS FIRST ...THEN BECOME WHATEVER WE WANT!!!...SO...THIS TOO WILL PASS...AND HOPEFULLY...GREATER UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN PEOPLES WITH THE MIGHT OF RIGHT BACKING UP OUR IDEALS!!!...PEACE...STUBASS

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:29 am:

Peace is what the majority wants. I wish the war in Iraq was over right now because I know there will be more innocent people killed. I feel so bad for those babies. My heart broke when I saw tht family come out of the house with the children with their hands in the air as the troops had their guns pointe. I had to turn away from the TV when I saw the little boy whose family had been killed by a bomb, and he had no arms.

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:40 am:

p.s.
This being America, we were ALL "overseas interlopers" at one time, spinnin. And an "overseas interloper" started this Forum, so he and the others can lope here all they want.

By Scratcher (65.134.147.253) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 02:24 am:

Horse, are you saying that some Arab grocers didn't traffic in government food stamps as I stated? This is not something I made up many of these grocers are doing prison time as I type this post for food stamp fraud. I didn't say all grocers I said some. The problem was nationwide.

Are you denying the fact that many Arab grocers are abandoning their grocery stores and are getting into other businesses like cell phones because it's not worth the risk anymore since they can't buy food stamps cheap and redeem them for full value? Do you know the profit margin on groceries?

Did you know that some Arab grocers have been convicted of COUPON FRAUD? Yea, Horse they take the coupon inserts from the Sunday papers and cut the coupons out and send them in to the food companies as if they actually sold the merchandise. We use to wonder why the Sunday Paper never had coupons when you bought it at this particular Arab grocery store where I use to live. And to top that off, he wouldn't honor any coupon you actually tried to redeem for the actual merchandise. He told his clerks not to accept coupons.

Are you denying that in many American cities there has been conflicts between Arab merchants and African-Americans?

Can you tell me why you never see an Arab store in a predominant Jewish neighborhood? Maybe Detroit is different but you don't see it in the cities I've spent time in. Why do they always set up shop in black and poor neighborhoods?

In most cities Arabs don't go to school with African-Americans unless the AA live in the suburbs the Arabs live in and many Arabs have their own schools that they send their children to.

When Caucasians ran the mom and pop stores in the '50s and '60s, they lived in the neighborhood, often above or in back of their stores. They interacted positively in the neighborhood. They didn't make the money in the hood and spend it elsewhere. Can you tell me one positive thing Arab merchants have done for inner city neighborhoods?

Are you denying that the government has stated that there are Arab terroist cells in this country? Did you know that some Arab-Americans (actual American citizens) were arrested for terroist activity in Buffalo last year?

Did you know that Americans were instructed by the government, national and local, to report any suspicious activity, especially regarding Arabs or Arabs-Americans? Is the American goverment a racist and a bigot too, Horse?

And Horse, I wasn't talking about when you were growing up, I'M TALKING ABOUT NOW! WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE SITUATION NOW? Maybe you should check out the Arab stores in the inner cities NOW Horse, maybe then you'll see what I, and others are talking about and dispense with your childish, ignorant name calling.

You know what else, Horse. The first time a bomb goes off in a shopping mall, theater, at a sporting event, concert, or school, etc., in this country by some lunatic Arab terroist, it ain't going to matter whether you're one of the good ones or the bad ones, cause American citizens, black and white, will solve the problem before Bush has a chance to deploy the troops.

By CHAD (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 02:46 am:

HORSE SOUNDS LIKE THE BIGOT TO ME.

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 09:02 am:

Horse,I've got your back covered.To all you people that think if someone has Arabic blood in them,or they happen to be Greek, Italian, African-American,Mexican and MIGHT look Arabic,are evil people.

You are exactly the kind of people that we need to keep a close watch on.
Your evil,slimey,dishonorable and we have to keep a close watch on every one of you.
Did someone drop you on your head when you were a baby?
People come to this country t get a better life and then they have to deal with the likes of you.
How dare you call yourself an American!!

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.33) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 09:08 am:

Scratcher,
I work in Dearborn, so you take it wrong. My point is while you are watching every Arab American like a hawk, you might not notice the local miltia dude decimating a federal building, the letter in the mail from Ted Kaczynski, or the guy who will be carjacking you. You don't know when those things are going to happen either. I have no problem keeping an eye out for suspicious behavior. That's just common sense. It's a bit harder, but likely a lot more effective than keeping an eye out for suspicious ethnicity.

Regards,
Ken

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 09:18 am:

My son in law is Chaldean and I love him dearly. He is a wonderful husband to my daughter and a loving father to my two and 8/9ths grandchildren.

By Dick Gamble (216.93.58.222) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 10:16 am:

Bo Diddley said it best with his song:You Can't Judge A Book By Lookin' At It's Cover"

A nation's people divided is a nation of people easily controlled. Creating desention between the different ethnic groups of people in this great country is the power brokers way to divide and conquer.
SisDetroit alluded to the agenda on the Detroit Riots thread to move people around and cause desention.How right she way...A plan that was in the making for many years.

We must as a nation's people unite as one, only then do we have freedom and control over our lives.

Our next great threat was also planned years ago by the powers to be thru NAFTA and GATA. Your jobs and livelihood will now be at stake and this is also planned to further divide this nation.

If we are to remain free as a people we must unite as one. Otherwise you'll be nothing more then a slave.

We are all brothers and sister in this world. Turn off the TV and get aquainted with each other.

Dick Gamble

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 11:19 am:

Good morning Ralph. Where have you been soul brother. :o) Since we were discussing Dearborn and the Arabs, I failed to mention that the Arab at the corner gas station was protecting me, on several occasions, from the young Black guys hanging outside of whom I was afraid of. (LOL) He told me not to worry and he showed me his amo. He went outside and told the guys to move on.

Before I retired, they used tease me because I worked for the Federal Govenment. Before nine eleven, I would sometimes go to Dearborn to participate in the festivals, work in a booth, and hand out literature to the people, informing them of their rights. I retired a month after nine eleven. My dentist is in Dearborn. My neice dates an Arab. My sister-in-law is white, of whom I love. I have bi-racial neices and nephews.

Having said that, I am truthful when I say, I am dreadfully afraid of AlQuida, and the Militia. The carjacker can have my car as long as he doesn't shoot me. AlQuida live and work among us, and will commit suicide. Militia and the carjacker doesn't want to die, but wants to stand on the side to watch the suffering. I am not protected, and I can't go to Camp David and hide in the tunnels as Bush and Saddam.

Are you going to delete this thread? :o)

By HORSE (159.53.238.243) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

Chad,
If you can in point to an educated specific example on this thread where I have portrayed myself to be a Bigot, Please do so.

Scratcher:

If I may, I would like to paste a quote of your own words:

"You know what else, Horse. The first time a bomb goes off in a shopping mall, theater, at a sporting event, concert, or school, etc., in this country by some lunatic Arab terroist, it ain't going to matter whether you're one of the good ones or the bad ones, cause American citizens, black and white, will solve the problem before Bush has a chance to deploy the troops".

I think you have portrayed yourself quite elequently. Would that be just Black and White or would that include Latinos, Jews and other ethnics that will be deciding my faith? Funny thing is, I don't hear anything that sounds as if were spoken by a true American.

Let me tell you something my friend. I walk mighty tall with a big stick. It's called self respect and eye to eye.

Sis,

I'm sure you are a wonderful person at heart. Maybe just misinformed regarding THIS social issue. I feel for you in the fact that you walk dreadfully afraid on your path through life.

Funny though it wasn't arab terrorist who were committing those dreadful D.C. Sniper shootings as first thought. It's a good thing Scratcher and his boys didn't take the law into their own hands and vigalanty some "good ones" or "bad ones".

Lynn,

I knew you would be addressing this issue from your first hand life experience. Thanks for having not only the heart but also the balls.

Stu,

Right On..!

Ralph,

I really prefer that you don't delete this thread as it may stand as a testimony of character for all to see.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 02:48 pm:

This thread is nothing compared to the real truth, facts, and terror of life. I've not really expressed my views here because sometimes you just keep your opinions to yourself. I have done that. I've only given you an overview of what I believe.

None of us know all of the other's perspective. We can't live through each other's life experiences. We can only express ourselves as we know it.

Due to their religion, my sons changed their names from what I gave them at birth, to AlJabbarr and Ali Shakeer, respectively. Ali Shakeer was murdered at 16 by his so-called friends. So, HORSE, I really know more than I've expressed here.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

BTW - My nephew is still over in Iraq. I don't want him there. I want him here, next to Dearborn.

By spinnin wheel (12.27.0.127) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

Sue,

By all means, let the 'lopers 'lope away! I'm certainly related to an interloper, but could not be called such myself. Perhaps my use of the word strayed from its strict definition (which is why I added ;) at the end), but to put it more cool-ly to sooth any heat: While doing research on these shores, it has been suggested that a British archivist recieved photos of mixed race soul bands. Given the sensitive topic and the explosive vollies presently available, I brought this up as an example of the absurdity of racial profiling. Besides, some of my best friends are 'lopers.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 04:41 pm:

Sis has asked me to remove this thread.

Unfortunately I can't, therefore I would respectfully ask that there should be no more postings on it.

Why don't we just talk about music?

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 05:28 pm:

David, I'm not liking at all-- what is going on here.
This cannot, should not go any further, I agree.

Consequently, the 'thread' has gotten to be quite 'ugly', found to be without any social 'constructive' benefit, none whatsoever, going against the intended 'expressed' purpose the above subject thread was 'created' here in the first place.

In other words this 'thing' is going NOWHERE but straight DOWN, and it's getting way out of hand.

Please... we all need to just stop, really.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 05:48 pm:

I think what I will do is leave the thread stand for a while longer if for no other reason than it is timely and many needed to have their say in this complex situation. However, I would appreciate it if we all take David's suggestion and get back to the business at hand on good old Soulful Detroit. Let's let this one disappear. Adding to it will serve no further purpose in the debate.

By stephanie (64.63.221.87) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 05:49 pm:

Hey everybody every race and every country and states has its bigots and demons!!! But at Soulful Detroit we dont have to (even if some are) they can act like they are not..
Steph

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

Aww hell,lets all just go go to the pub! I'm sorry if I overreacted.It's a lot more fun to talk about who played what on an old Detroit song.

By Dick Gamble (216.93.11.212) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 07:03 pm:

LYNN YOU BUYING?

By lynnbruce (65.60.202.214) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

As Ritchard Pryor said: Hell yes,a drink for everyone,that's ONE DRINK for everyone, bartender!!

By Dick Gamble (216.93.77.91) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 07:30 pm:

Your a good man Lynn Bruce,and have one on me also!!

Let's raise our glasses on high and toast all the good people on the Soulful Detroit Forum.

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 07:57 pm:

Naw Lynn,
actually the 'trashed' Richard Pryor said it best-- I think it went something like this....

I wanna buy eveybody... here... something.
Say bartender-- bring me ah beer... one, goddam muddah f**kin' beer-HAH!

Now that was some 'classic' Richard Pryor....

By Caleb (63.208.113.37) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 08:03 pm:

Sis,what's the name of that gas station where there loaded up with ammunition?Just curious.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 09:19 pm:

Caleb - Each one of them. :o)

LynnBruce - I want a 5th of Crown Royal all by myself. I really do need it.

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.154) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 09:57 am:

Hmm? Maybe we can still talk about soul music in the context of this sometimes heated and tangential thread. How about a quote from Sly Stone?

Don't hate the black/
Don't hate the white/
If you get bit/
Just hate the bite

Anyway, Lynn, if you would be so kind as to set me up with a tall frosty one...

Regards,
Ken

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:35 am:

Make mine a Jack Daniels - straight, no chaser - and raise a toast to all.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Vickie (205.188.209.38) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 11:32 am:

Gandhi said, "Our ability to reach unity in diversity will be the beauty and test of our civilization." The end of this millennium signals a higher consciousness of love and acceptance of all people - something that we could have learned centuries ago from the native cultures, if only we hadn't perceived them as inferior.
from The Indigo Children
by Lee Carroll & Jan Tober

By Scratcher (65.132.77.148) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 01:21 pm:

Livonia Ken, I'm as adament about the government doing something about the militia as I am about the terroist cells that they know are in America. I watch and read-up on them too. I wonder why the F.B.I. dosen't flush them out like they did the Black Panther Party. I also wonder why the "good" Arabs don't rat out the bad ones. I didn't see or read any outlandish anger towards the culprits who committed 9/11 from the Arab community.

Everything I said about "some" Arab merchants defrauding the government via the government food stamp program and sending "some" of the monies overseas to terrorist organzations is documented. To argue "that" is not only stupid it's ignorant.

I'm in Arab stores everyday, different ones, and I speak on that from personal experience.

I'm also doing what my government told me and every other American to do: look out for anything supicious. I guess some of us here aren't "real" Americans and thinks doing so is racist.

And if I, as a African-American, am a little sensitive towards race issues I have a reason to be, my people were brought here in the stomach of boats, packed like sardines and kept in slavery for hundred of years. What is Lynn and Horse's excuse?

Had it not been for people like Thomas Jefferson Blacks would have been enslaved longer. Britain wanted to keep slavery going here for econonic reasons as did the southern states. The Civil war was fought over the slavery issue. Some of you name callers should read=up.

I'm against Arabs, Africans, Jamaicans, Asians and anyone else who comes here on student visas and stay 20 years. Our borders are too open.

By Dick Gamble (216.93.77.76) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 01:33 pm:

SisDetroit, wouldn't you rather have a 1955 Crown Victoria rather then a 5th of crown royal??

Just think, with a stick shift the carjackers wouldn't be able to drive it and you'd be driving around the city putting on the ritz....LOL

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 01:47 pm:

Gandhi's words have pulled me through some rough times.

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, born in 1869, dominate theme was "Love-force." His belief was nonviolence is actually more natural to man than violence. He developed a method of direct social action, based upon principles of courage, nonviolence, and truth, which he call satyagraha (passive resistance, soul force, or truth force.)
We need a Gandhi today. Martin Luther King, Jr. followed the teachings of Gandhi. Unfortunately, both Gandhi and Martin were assassinated.

Socates (469-399 BC)felt it better to suffer than to commit injustice.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

Dick Gamble - I drove a stick shift when I was 16. By the time I got my license at age 18, I had forgotten how. I'm just lucky I don't have a SUV.

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

Kudos to Gandhi, but some of the remarks here demand a response from another great philosopher, Groucho Marx:

"It doesn't matter what you say
I wasn't listening anyway
I don't know who began it or commenced it
But whatever it is
I'm against it!"

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:03 pm:

I must say this for the record, my Ex made the "Hajj", but regardless, I was afraid of him. Not because of his religion, but because of his own inner personal conflicts.

I laugh and joke, but I aint' stupid.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.80) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:15 pm:

Sis,
I saw a Documentary all about an English guy being filmed all the way as he made the 'Hajj'
Very interesting
mel.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:17 pm:

Mel&ThenSome - Yes, and I feel warm when I think of the Hajj.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:23 pm:

Confucius asked "What will the imperatives of conduct avail him who does not love his fellow man."

By Scratcher (65.132.77.148) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

Be careful when quoting Confucious he didn't have anything nice to say about women.

Confucious (551-479 B.C.) also revealed an attitude towards women which was inferior. He seldom wrote about women, and when he did write about them, he classified them as slaves and small humans or "hsaio ren." As well,, he has been called an "eater of women."

By Dick Gamble (216.93.11.50) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 02:57 pm:

SisDetroit, you had mentioned you worked for the Feds. Did you work at 477 Michigan at the Mac?

I maintained the USSS equipment there and also installed the new DEA system in 1990. Spent many hours in that building. Just curious!!

Dick

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

Dick - Yes I did work there. You should see it now. The building is barricaded all around, streets have been blocked off.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:11 pm:

Scratcher - Is that why is quote has "him", "his", and "man" in it?

By hiram (159.53.32.41) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:20 pm:

For All Who Might Have Missed This Wise Recommendation Stated Earlier In The Thread:

"I would appreciate it if we all take David's suggestion and get back to the business at hand on good old Soulful Detroit. Let's let this one disappear. Adding to it will serve no further purpose in the debate."

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:24 pm:

Thank you Hiram

By Scratcher (65.132.77.148) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:25 pm:

Yes Sis, he constantly put women down when ever he did write about them. I've been trying to find this famous dig he made towards women and can't but when I do I'll post it. The women in my philosphy classes hated him; they called him a fat funny looking baldheaded man and everything.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:44 pm:

WELL GANG: IF WE'RE QUOTING WELL KNOWN PHILOSOPHER'S...I'LL STICK WITH "THE REVEREND IKE"...WHO STATED..."MONEY IS NOT THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL"...LACK OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL"!!!...AND "YOU CAN'T LOSE WITH THE STUFF I USE"!!!...NOW *THERE'S* A PHILOSOPHER FOR YOU!!!...STU

By Scratcher (65.132.77.148) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 03:47 pm:

Reverend Ike was the man! What is Ike up to now, Stu? Do he still have all them Rolls Royces?

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.154) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 04:11 pm:

Thanks for the reminder Hiram. I will now follow David's advice. I think I'll combine it with Sue's idea to use a Marx Brothers reference. All of my future participation in this thread will be quotes of Harpo movie dialog.

Regards,
Ken

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 04:13 pm:

I SAW THE HONORABLE REVEREND INKE ON T.V. A FEW YEARS AGO...STILL LOOKING AND FEELING GOOD!!!...AND TO THINK...HE HAS MORE ROLLS ROYCES THAN STUBASS HAS ANGELS!!!...STU

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 04:15 pm:

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot. -- Groucho

By Scratcher (65.132.77.148) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

Two famous Reverend Ike quotes Stu:

"Don't Give Me No Pie In the Sky, Give Me My Flowers While I Can Smell 'Em."

"The Best Thing You Can Do For Poor People Is Not Be One Of Them."

Do you think Don King was one of his Disciples?

By Dick Gamble (216.93.77.83) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 04:53 pm:

Sue,that's a good one by Groucho. I've got to write that one down for future reference.

Thanks for the laugh!!!!!

Dick

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:08 pm:

Thanks Hiram. Let's keep ths thread funny gang.

Dick...If Sis doesn't want the 55 Crown Vic can I have it??

By Dick Gamble (216.93.77.83) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:24 pm:

Ralph, I wish I had one myself, in fact I wish I still had my 50 Merc....Things were so much simpler then. Earth shaking things like who can I take out tonight and will I be able to get WLAC on the radio for that good music.Oh we sure were stressed out then... Where's the time machine when you need it??

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:31 pm:

I know what you mean Dick. I wish I still had my 63 Chevy Super Sport Convertible. Bruce Springsteen was at Motown L.A. once to see my brother about something. He told Russ to come out with him to the parking lot, that he wanted to show him something. There it was...a 63 Super Sport converible. Russ told him I had one years ago. Bruce replied " Yeah but I STILL have one."

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:40 pm:

Ralph,
My dad bought a '64 Impala Super Sport convertible, white with red interior, "drive-in" style cupholders, etc. I don't know what came over him to buy that as our second car, it was a total Wild Thing. My older brother drove it to his prom. Unfortunately it was gone by the time I was old enough to drive; by then we had a red Pontiac Tempest that I pretended was a GTO ...

p.s. You can buy reproductions of those early '60s Impala convertibles at the Pure Detroit store in downtown Detroit ...

By Dick Gamble (216.93.77.83) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

I had a 63 super sport 2 door hardtop which I just loved. The color was Honduras Maroon. Wish I had that car too.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:16 pm:

my first car..

drum roll please........

a brand spanking new 1987 YUGO

YEp!!!!!

pulled up to The American Music Awards in it..right behind all the limos, at the entrance, on the red carpet..YEP..

The crowd sitting outside in the bleachers wanted to see celebs..they laughed...
LOL
THAT WAS GOOD TIMES!!!!

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:20 pm:

Oh Vickie ...
That makes me want to cry ...my first car was an old grandpa, but it was cool: a '64 MG Midget, with a removable hardtop. You had to pop the hood to turn the heat on or off, it had been repainted (red), badly, and there was a hole in the passenger side floor, but it really went. It was like riding a motorcycle ...

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:25 pm:

p.s. I hope you didn't go over any suspension bridges in that thing, Vickie ...we had a famous incident in Michigan where some poor woman in a Yugo was swept by the wind off the Mackinac Bridge, into the lake ...

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:29 pm:

Sue,
My SS was white with a white top and black leather interior.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:31 pm:

SUE!!!! LOL
I didn't go over any bridges thank goodness..

that car lasted til 1991 (that was the life span of Yugos I guess)

it was cute and I liked it..but peole laughed at me like crazy everywhere I went..
I was proud to pull up at the Awards in it...LOL

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (205.188.209.38) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:51 pm:

Vickie... ah yes, the "Yugo...

Which reminds me of this 'Yugo' story several years ago in Northern Michigan, there was an incident in which a 'YUGO' was attempting to cross the 'straights' thru the Mackinac Bridge and, the "little car that could" never quite made it over to the other end!

A sudden, massive burst of gusting UP wind BLEW the 'Yugo' and it's lone (female) driver clear OVER the side of the MAC bridge into the chilly waters below... where, she and the car were found several days later, stuck in mud almost 200 feet below the 'murky' waters, and this, after plunging over 150 feet into the waters, as the the "Yugo" was BLOWN OFF THE BRIDGE-- TRUE STORY.

That was the "Yugo", which musta been short for... well, 'Yugo'overboard'.

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 07:39 pm:

Uh, Jim -- that's what I said, a few messages ago ...

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 09:34 pm:

HEY ALL: SINCE YOU'RE TALKING CARS...STUBASS GOT SOME NEW WHEELS TODAY...AN 03 HONDA S-2000...GOT A GOOD DEAL CAUSE I KNOW THE DEALER!!!...ANYONE WANT TO BUY A 99 ACURA CL???...SORRY...NOT SUPPOSED TO ADVERTISE...BUT I REALLY DON'T NEED TO BE A TWO CAR FAMILY RIGHT NOW!!!...STU