By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:35 pm:

OK ALL YOU LOCAL MUSICAL CATS!!!...WHAT MEMORIES DO YOU HAVE ABOUT THE DETROIT FEDERATION OF MUSICIANS!!!...I REMEMBER JIMMY LEWIS...BUSINESS REP...WHO WAS FAMOUS FOR GOING AROUND AND PULLING PLUGS OF NON-UNION CATS DURING GIGS!!!...HE DID TRY TO HELP ME COLLECT SOME MONEY ONCE...FINALLY GIVING UP BY TELLING ME THAT THE GUY WHO OWED ME WAS JUST A "CROOK"!!!...ANYBODY GET THEIR PLUG PULLED BY JIMMY OR OTHER INTERESTING UNION STORIES???...STU

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

StuBass - I think Ralph Armstrong (bassist) is now the President of the Det. Fed. of Musicians. (Of course I'm not a member, and don't know any stories.)

By Jim G (12.47.224.12) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 06:42 am:

Sis,

Gordon Stump (trumpet) is the President.
Most of the 'old guard' are gone, but Johnny Trudell is around.
Stu, perhaps you remember Fred Netting? Played alto sax back in the 1930s, business manager at Local 5 for what seemed like centuries. He's gone too. Byron X. Taylor is still there.

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:32 am:

I also have a Question?
What did Detroit Local 5 and the Detroit Mafia have in common?Hmmmm,They both liked to squeeze money out of people.You had to pay protection(Oops,I mean dues and a chunk of your paycheck).
If you didn't show respect for them, they could make life rough for you.
They would get mad at you if you didn't deal with them exclusively.ECT.ECT.ECT.

The sad part is most unions actuallly due help raise a persons standard of living and help them when they have a problem.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:51 am:

HEY LYNN...THE MAFIA???...PERHAPS LIKE THE "DRAFT BOARD" AS WELL!!...WHAT POSITION DOES JOHN TRUDELL CURRENTLY HOLD??...?HE'S MY BROTHERS OLD DETROIT BAND MATE!!!...ALSO...WASN'T JIMMY LEWIS... BOBBIE LEWIS'S (PERCUSSION) DAD OR SOMETHING???..I REMEMBER THAT JIMMY LIVED OVER IN INDIAN VILLAGE ON DETROITS NEAR EAST SIDE!!!...STU

By sgruder (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 09:55 am:

Hey Stu-I remember a guy named Willie Green who use to pull plugs on amps and kick in bass drums.Local 876 (hall) was one his favorite places to visit us musicians.This was going on in the early 70's.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:43 am:

When I was running Tera Shirma the union approached me and wanted me to not book any sessions that didn't have a filed union contract. They also wanted me to allow a union representitive to be in the studio at all times. You can use your imaginations as to what I told them. Basically, think...two words.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:48 am:

Ralph:
Were those two words "go fish?"
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

Basically Kev, basically.

By hiram (159.53.32.41) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 12:11 pm:

My experience with the Detroit Federation of Musicians was unforgetable to say the least. We played a new years gig at the a well known hotel and it was a union contracted gig. When we got stiffed for the pay, we went to the union to back us since it was an official union gig. As a band, we went into Mr. B's (who shall remain anonamous)office to discuss our issue. After hearing us out, he opened his desk drawer and pulled out a 38 cal. revolver placed it on his desk and said: I 've had a hard day and don't think you guys want to make it any harder do you? The Detroit AFofM is a joke run by a bunch of no playing ignoramouses.

Later in life, I was playing a gig in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The band was sound checking and rehersing when a local union rep came in and hit the band up for cash. He stated he wanted $4,000. The band leader laughed and told him to beat it. He then stated: If I don't have $4,000. on my desk by 5:00pm this afternoon, I will be back down here with the marshall and confiscate all your gear and send your asses back over the border and then You can deal with getting your shit back. Needless to say, he got his cash. The union only works out if your doing session dates for the most part and I'm sure there are a lot of gripes concerning that scenario.

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 12:22 pm:

AFTRA does a much better job but unfortunately only singers can join ...

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.202.214) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

Now you've done it:When the band I worked with was playing at Miami Beaches "Peppermint Lounge on 79th st.,we had some executives stop in one night from Revlon cosmetics. They said they were having a convention down there at the Fountainbleu. They asked us if we could play at an afternoon party the next day. They agreed on our price,so we said we'd be there.
As we were playing the next afternoon,up shows a guy in a trench coat and a brief-case standing at the door of the auditorium. Sure enough,Miami musicians union rep.
He asked to see our contract,we said we had none as we just got the gig late last night and had no time to file one.
He told us to be at the local the next day and appear before the board.
The next day while we sat cooling our heels while the board probably were playing cards,they called us in.
They asked us how much we made on that gig. Fools that we were, we told them the truth.
They sent us back out while they probably played another hand of cards,then asked for us to come back in.
They then stated that since we had the unmitigated gaul to play without them getting their piece of our bread,that they were going to fine us every thing we made.EVERY DOLLAR WE MADE ON THAT GIG WENT TO LINE THEIR POCKETS!!
Ah yes the musicians union,gotta love those rascals!!

By Joe Podorsek (152.163.188.68) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 02:58 pm:

Thru the years, the union has been very good both to me and for me. Without their endorsement (union card) I could have never worked at some of the places I've worked.

Also, as to work dues and scale......another word for scale is "Minimum" Unless it's a special situation, I never work for scale. The work dues are a mere 3% that is added to my check after I negotiate the price with the client. It's the cost of doing business and is chump change.

By Horse (159.53.32.46) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

Joe,

Forgive me for not knowing your background. Are you part of Detroit local 5? If so for how long? And please don't take offense to my next question. Do you belong to the click of older musicians who recommend only the click for dates and can you tell me that you have never experience any type of corruption by local 5. I'm very serious with my questions and do not intend to offend you. I have played and made more money outside of the union than I have through the union because of "The Click". I once had someone use my social security number on a union contract gig that I didn't even play on. The only way I found out was when I received the tax bill. I once contacted the union to contract some horn players and they recommended specific players who happended to be so ancient that I doubt they could possibly have enough air left in their lungs to make it through the A section of the chart, let alone the entire tune.

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 09:15 pm:

International Musician
Local 5 article on The Funk Brothers

http://www.afm.org/im/cover/04-03/04-03.htm

By buzzy (216.244.18.124) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 02:33 pm:

The local 5 as with all musicians unions are total bullshit . I mean this to the bottom of my soul . Willie Green and a few others always came to stop young musicians whenever they felt they could and take their "work dues " which was put in their pockets .This shit went on for years . I came to L.A and often saw "some " musicians leave with stacks of checks while I got my one . There was also a time when they said brothers could'nt read music well enough to really be studio musicians and guess what , some of us bought into that bullshit .They were going to start a saturday session at the union to "teach " us how to read . MORE BULLSHIT !!!!! I will never , ever join a union for musicians again . Needless to say there are keyboards to replace all those studio musicians .There is justice but not in the union.

By gordon (24.247.195.133) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

I gotta' tell you that most of old stories about the Detroit Federation of Musicians are true! However dismissing a concept that is so necessary for the protection and preservation of the working men & women of country because of past in justices is not the way to go.

Business Agent Willie Green was gunned down on the streets many years ago. Secretary-Treasurer and legendary Business Agent Byron X Taylor was recently voted out of office (May 22, 2003) and replaced with Susan Barna Ayoub. Ralphe Armstrong is the Business Agent and I have been the President since 2000.

Detroit Musicians Entertainment: www.detroitmusicians.net now refers all calls or Internet inquiries for gigs coming into Local 5. The rules are extremely fair and there are no more old guard cabals. You can join Local 5 on Monday and pick up a gig on Tuesday. Ask Bobbie Jones.

As one of the active post-Motown studio trumpet players in Detroit with hundreds of recorded tunes I wish the union would have succeeded in monitoring all the session work. Millions of dollars of new-use money cannot be claimed because the fantastic Detroit musicians did not get their names on the contracts (B-forms). New use checks for Motown and post-Motown recordings come in but they are mostly for the strings from DSO who insisted on getting their names on a union contract.

I would like to apologize to all those great Detroit musicians who got their asses kicked by the old union. I was also on the outside looking in. As a first call studio/theater lead trumpet player from 70-98 I never ever got referred for a gig from Local 5.

I decided to work inside the system and change it. There are no more "thru the union" or "outside the union" type gigs. You set a price and if we can get you a gig thru Detroit Musicians Entertainment at your price we do. You cannot type in "Detroit Musicians" or anything like that in google and not find our web site We advertise on google.

I like to think we have changed. Ask Ralphe, Wendell, Ernie, Maurice, Joe Hunter, etc. or check us out for yourself and let me know.

Respectfully,

Gordon Stump, President Detroit Federation of Musicians, Local 5