By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 02:33 pm: |
Here's a nice WCHB chart from the summer of 1966, which includes some great and rare Detroit pieces by Jack Montgomery, Melvin Davis, and Emmanuel Laskey (You Better Be Sure is the flip of I've Got to Run for My Life). There are also gospel records listed on Wingate and La Beat--I don't recall seeing either of those.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 02:40 pm: |
"Dearly Beloved" is one of my favorite classics - it was arranged by Dennis Coffey and produced by Mike Theodore (Theo-Coff Productions). "Open The Door To Your Heart" was another goodie.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By TonyRussi (68.210.2.104) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 03:49 pm: |
I love #34 "Poor Dog(That Can't Wag Its Own Tail"By Little Richard on Okeh...I have the picture case 45 of that.It was a really cool record & Richard sounds great on it.And #4 "That's Enough" By Roscoe Robinson is a cool soul sound.
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:20 pm: |
There are some fantastic songs on there Joe.
THEY DO NOT MAKE THEM LIKE THAT ANYMORE - NO WAY!
Love #29 BTW.
David
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:22 pm: |
Joe - great !
Some real obscure records there - Madeline Wilson
for one. Nice to see the MAgnificent Men charting.
I'll have to see if I can figure out a way to get this to Howard Tate - his highest chart placing ?
I think the Columbus Mann gospel track on Wingate
is from an album.
By TonyRussi (68.210.2.125) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:38 pm: |
Hey Davie, I saw Howard Tate on a big show in 1966 at Orlando Municipal Auditorim "Ain't Nobody Home" was pretty big at the time.I loved his "Look at Granny Run Run" & "Stop".
By Scratcher (65.134.147.135) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 04:45 pm: |
The late Marvin Jones b.k.a. Jack Montgomery "Dearly Beloved was produced by Don Mancha and Johnny Terry; actually Don Mancha produced the track himself, though Terry is also credited. Theodore and Coffey arranged it.
By acooolcat (210.200.105.225) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 06:22 am: |
Joe - there are some gems on this chart - Jack Montgomery's great double-sider and "The Right Track" by Billy Butler being just two of my personal favorites.
The Holidays' "No Greater Love" was the last release on Golden World - just before Berry bought the company. What's the exact date this chart was published?
Cheers, Graham
By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.118) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 06:36 am: |
Great stuff Joe,
all great 45s,apart from the obvious nominations,good to see Mighty Sam in there,another forgotten rare soul dancer by Judy Clay with 'You busted my mind'as well.
Also nice to see the Gospel tracks.Personally I dig James Cleveland and also the good old (orig)Blind boys of Alabama.
Regards
mel.
By Joe Moorehouse (152.163.188.68) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 09:01 am: |
Graham, the chart is undated, though it must be from the second half of August, 1966, based on when these songs were released and when they appeared on Billboard's R&B chart. The chart also includes an ad for a show at Cobo Hall on September 3 by the James Brown Revue.
In any case, it certainly was a great week to be listening to WCHB. But then, if I had to choose one year as my favorite in the history of popular music, it would be 1966. Terrific for both rock and roll and soul.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:47 am: |
Joe,
Totally agree - there were more great records, of
all genres, issued in 1966 than any other year.
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 03:31 pm: |
JoeM - Thank you for that chart. So many of those were my favorite. Notice the #1 Beauty is Only Skin Deep." Great times! Stevie's "Blowin In the Wind" is still one of my favorites, along with "Castles in the Sand." And the gospel recording "Without A Song" was the Queens theme song, which you never tired of hearing. I wish everyone would have heard Dorothy Norwood's "Denied Mother." It would make you cry.
By keith.rylatt@tesco.net (217.137.88.10) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 09:31 pm: |
Davie Re the Rev Columbus Mann 45. I have never seen the 45 but do have a Juke Box title insert for it, it is in my loft but am sure it was a pale blue `mini LP` type of thing. It was featured in my old mag, `Come & Get These Memories` along with about twenty others featuring Detroit classics. I will publish them all in the forth coming book. Keith
By Rich (162.33.247.130) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 08:14 am: |
Thanks Joe,
Things like this keep me checkin' back every day.
Peace
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 03:36 pm: |
Keith,
Thanks for the info - I look forward to the book's
appearance !
By Mark Speck (65.56.217.227) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 11:16 pm: |
Interesting to see two rare Northern soul records back-to-back on this chart: #24 (Jack Montgomery) and #25 (Melvin Davis).
So if these charted somewhere, why are they so friggin' hard to find? I would LOVE to have both of those!!
Nice to also see the great Mag Men ballad (though the title is misspelled), Mighty Sam, and a winner from Judy Clay. Not too keen on the Madeleine Wilson one, though (who said I had to like every record I hear?).
Best,
Mark
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 12:00 am: |
Mark - Remember WCHB was in the Detroit area. There were lots of great recordings that didn't get out there to all coasts. (Even though it may have gotten to Europe.) And lets not talk about the distribution and competition in 1966 across the States.
By RD (63.188.32.64) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 12:52 am: |
Some of the recordings on that chart never got out of Detroit let alone the coasts.
By David Meikle (213.122.151.38) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 03:42 am: |
Mark makes an interesting point.
It never fails to amaze me how many so called rare records have been in charts.
Surely to be in these local charts the discs must still have sold in their hundreds.
So where are they?
By acooolcat (210.200.105.226) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 04:45 am: |
This chart was compiled by someone who listed what he/she thought was a good record and which might have been getting "requests" on the radio.
I don't think they were selling in quantity or making progress outside of Detroit.
We discussed this topic (sales/hit records) on another thread, but I can't remember the title.
Perhaps after a first pressing of about 1,000 copies - which was the standard quantity - they were never re-pressed due to lack of demand/sales, and are now hard to find.
Graham
By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 08:51 am: |
I think Graham has hit on the explanation. I would add that in the case of the Jack Montgomery, Melvin Davis, and Emmanuel Laskey singles on this chart, we're dealing with records where demand far outstrips supply, but these 45s DO turn up. It's just that there are thousands of people who would like to own them, and only a few dozen (or in the case of Jack Montgomery perhaps a couple hundred) known copies.
One question that has always interested me is this: What percentage of the pressed copies of a '60s record are typically still extant? If 1,000 copies of a 45 were made in Detroit in 1966, how many of those can reasonably be assumed to still be out there? It's my impression that about 10-15% of most desirable records have made it into collectors' hands over the years, though I have no idea how many more might typically be still hiding in basements, attics, and warehouses. Of course, there is a lot of variation between records, as any number of factors can affect how many copies surface--most dramatically when the producer or artist is sitting on boxes of them that suddenly flood the market and change it completely (perhaps never more dramatically than with Danny Moore's single two years ago) or when it turns out that a large batch of records were at some point destroyed or thrown away (as with the ARP fire, Frank Wilson, etc.).
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, April 08, 2003 - 11:40 am: |
Joe:
If I may answer your last question regarding the percentage of pressed 45s that still exist.
When I started working in the music biz in 1995, my first assignment was to find small "one-stop" distributors to sell product to. One outfit I called in Chicago told me, "Son, I still have your label's original product on vinyl still sealed in plastic! I got thousands of this!"
I later learned that some labels were able to manufacture hundreds of records based on then-growing sales and airplay. When the sales died down, the records would be marked as "cut-outs" and sold off as such. However, some of these old distributors/one stops still warehouse these old records and sell them to collector's stores (I bought a mint copy of the Lost Generation's "Sly Slick & Wicked" in the original Brunswick sleeve).
Best thing to do is check out ads in Billboard, Goldmine & Discoveries magazines for these warehouses that sell off classic 45s & LPs - you may find a treasure trove of these records (and if you find a mint copy of "Dearly Beloved" let me know!).
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By Greg C. (209.71.79.175) on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 01:47 pm: |
#28 Love's Gone Bad. That was my girl, Chris Clark!
I'll never forget the time I saw her at the 20 Grand in Detroit. That tall amazon with that huge platinum blond bouffant and those ruby red lips. The audience gasped when she walked onstage. Didn't know what to expect... She took that mic and wore it out! Brought the house down! Folks were wooping, shouting, screaming, and testifying. Man, I wish Motown had really gotten behind her. So much potential and so poorly promoted...
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 05:20 pm: |
Sorry for the delay in uploading these 3 classic images sent in by Graham. All appear on Joe's chart of course.
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 05:39 pm: |
DMeikle - Could you tell me anything about Gerald Sims?
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:29 pm: |
Sis:
Gerald Sims was a Chicago-based arranger/studio bandleader/producer who worked with Carl Davis on several Chicago soul productions on the Okeh & Brunswick labels, to name a few and worked independently as well. Gerald worked on records from Billy's "Right Track" to Jackie Wilson's "Whispers (Getting Louder)".
Kevin Goins - KevGo
By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 06:30 pm: |
Thanks KevGo - I know a Sims family here who were into singing, writing and arranging.
By Scratcher (65.132.79.101) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 07:49 pm: |
Could be the same family Sis. Gerald Sims was born in Chicago but grew up in Kalamazoo, MI moving back to Chicago when he was 19; no indication his whole family moved back to Chicago--just him. He probably had siblings and its possible they could have relocated from Kalamazoo to the Detroit area.
By David Meikle (213.122.63.254) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 05:57 am: |
I recall spotting Gerald Sims name on Jackie Wilson recordings which were so good it stuck with me.
Wherever you are Gerald, thanks.