By john dixon (205.188.209.38) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:45 pm:

Death ballads pre-date recorded music. From the earliest recorded music there are examples like the Appalachian murder ballad "Delia". There's also the murder/ghost story ballad "The Long Black Veil". In early r&b there's "Stagger Lee" which also began as a folk ballad.

Someone on another thread mentioned the recently deceased Johnny Paycheck and that made me recall an early song he wrote and recorded (swept-up DA/pre-beard era)that I pull out and play for people just to watch them go slackjawed in disbelief, which was also my initial reaction upon first hearing it.

"(Pardon Me) I've Got Someone To Kill"

I know you'll excuse me if I say goodnight
I've got a promise to fulfill
Thank you for listening to my troubles
Pardon me I've got someone to kill

I warned him not to try and take her from me
He laughed and said if I can you know I will
So tonight when they get home I'll be waiting
Pardon me I've got someone to kill

I know I'll surely die for what I'm about to do
But it don't matter I'm a dead man anyhow
This gun will buy back the pride they took from me
And also end this life of mine that's worthless now

By the time you tell the sheriff it'll all be over
He'll find me at their big house on the hill
He'll find a note explaining why I killed us all
Now it's time to go, I've got someone to kill

Now, as chilling and unsavory as this song certainly is, there are many similar ones that are a part of our country's musical legacy. What I'm curious to know is whether the preponderance of these murder/death songs are in the country idiom. Since these songs are, by and large, a queasy historical reminder of a more primitive and lawless time, there has to be plenty of examples from r&b. Lord knows there's no shortage of contemporary hip hop songs with lyrics about putting a cap in someone's a**.

My apologies to those on the forum with delicate sensibilities who might be put off or offended by the nature of this thread. But it's a communal musical legacy I'm talking about and therefore worthy of serious discussion.

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

I think the preponderance are in the country/folk arena, yeah John ...there are umpteen creepy death songs on those Carter Family compilations.

Somebody's always walking with their sweetheart along the river, when the sweetheart does them in.
It's definitely an interesting thread in American music. "Stagger Lee" is an example of that in the R&B idiom ...what about "Frankie and Johnny"? That song was both pop and R&B ...

"Hey Joe" of course.

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

HEY JOHN,THAT IS {HEAVY]STUFF,OF COURSE YOU'RE RIGHT AS RAIN,THERE IS {FRANKIE AN JOHNNY}AND TO A LESSER EXTENT[JEALOUS KIND OF FELLA].

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

ALL TIME CLASSIC..."STAGGER LEE" BY LLOYD PRICE???...STAGGER LEE SHOT BILLY...SHOT HIM OH SO BAD!!!...STU

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:33 pm:

THE ONE THAT I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF IS{THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND]BOBBY MARCHAN.

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:46 pm:

The one song that used to give me the creeps when I was growing up was "Hang Down Your Head Tom Dooley" by I believe the Kingston Trio.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.87) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:54 pm:

Morbid but hilarious(I think)
Nervous NorvoUs-Transfusion on Dot records.
And another hilarious one by Jimmy Cross on the Tollie Label.
When he gets in the coffin at the end and starts to sing,totally insane and with the sound effects it is absolutley funny(and then some).
The Jimmy Cross cut is titled 'I want my baby back'.
Believe it or not,(if its anything to do with the uk rare/northern scene)then believe it,there was the instrumental to the above track that got played in the late 70's.
No idea who played it,but he can join Jimmy Cross in the wooden overcoat.
Both very funny and dig them out,but I know the Nervous Norvous is quite a rarity on Dot.And probably the other to.
Cant get over Nervous Norvous,he comes off his 'Motor-sickle'as he says it,gets a blood transfusion and also with superb sound effects plus lyrics such as'give me some claret,Jaret' and 'Hey Daddio,make that type-o'.
Mel(the Macabre).

By Eli (151.197.37.147) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:17 pm:

Leader of the pack
Tell Laura I love her
Teen Angel
Old Shep
Green Green grass of home
Tragedy
Games people play(Joe South)

By FAYETTE (205.188.209.38) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

what about FRANKIE AND JOHNNY

By john dixon (63.101.17.207) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:58 pm:

Eli, I'm a big Joe South fan. Who dies in "Games People Play"?

By Dick Gamble (216.93.58.229) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 05:04 pm:

"The Patriot's Dream" and "Black Day in July"
Gordon Lightfoot

Both have special meanings to me..

By Steve LItos (209.100.86.4) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:21 pm:

Eli- I read somewhere where the writers of "Teen Angel" performed the song as a joke at cocktail parties before it ever got recorded.

"Gotta Get A Message To You" - Bee Gees - The hero is walking to his death at the gallows.

"Delilah" - Tom Jones - Guy kills girl with a knife.

"Danny Boy" - By Everyone- The protagonist of the song is dying.

By FAYETTE (64.12.97.7) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:29 pm:

then there's alway "STRANGE FRUIT"BY BILLIE
HOLIDAY

By Eli (151.197.37.243) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 07:14 pm:

At the end of the song there is mention of "the back of a black limosine!!" which relates to a hearse.

By john dixon (64.12.97.7) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 07:24 pm:

Oh yeah, thanks for jogging my memory there, Mr. Eli. "Till they're covered up in flowers in the back of a black limosine".

By PhilH (203.220.98.244) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 08:10 pm:

"Long Black Limousine" by Jody Miller or Elvis Presley - singer's boyfriend/girlfriend went off to find fame and fortune saying that he/she would come back to town riding in a LBL, which turned out to be the town hearse after he/she was killed in a car crash!

Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit" was mentioned - don't forget "Gloomy Sunday", a/k/a "Hungarian Suicide Song". Which then reminds me of the original vocal "Theme From M*A*S*H - Suicide Is Painless".

Back to country, there's Marty Robbins' famous gunfighter saga, "El Paso".

Phil

By Nikki (24.46.200.124) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 08:29 pm:

From 1959 "Seventeen Steps" by the Fairlanes (on Lucky Seven label). They sing/talk about being on death row, waiting for his turn to be executed! Interesting (yet depressing) record - excellent harmony! Check out the name of the label too (the irony of it)!!!

Nikki

By Dick Gamble (216.93.58.209) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 08:48 pm:

How about "Riot in Cell Block No.9" by the Robins(1953) with the machine guns in the background.

"Come on boys,get ready to run here comes the warden with a tommy gun"

By Jim G (152.163.188.68) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 08:51 pm:

"Lavender Coffin" by, among others, Lionel Hampton..."Little Delia" and "Dying Crapshooter's Blues" by Blind Willie McTell.
"Frankie And Johnny" originates in the mid-1800s, a piece of Folk music, first recorded in the 1920s. (The latter from "Lissauer's Encyclopedia of Popular Music in America", a good reference.)
"Stack'O Lee" (Stagger Lee) has a complex history, I recall that Goldmine, in the 1980s, ran a great article detailing it. Of course I can't remember where my copy is.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 08:57 pm:

IF THIS WERE A FORUM DEDICATED TO "RAP MUSIC"...IT WOULD BE EASIER TO LIST SONGS *WITHOUT* DEATH AND MORBIDITY ATTACHED TO THEM!!!...STU(MAD DOG)BASS

By Dick Gamble (216.93.11.28) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 09:26 pm:

MAD DOG, does that mean we'd have to flush them down the Rapper crapper??

Reminds me of Steve Dahl smashing disco records in the baseball stadium

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 09:37 pm:

MR GAMBLE: I'M A SQUATTIN RIGHT NOW!!!...(DIDN'T HAVE THE NERVE TO USE FOR FIRST NAME BEHIND THAT ONE)!!!...STU

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 09:37 pm:

"The Bells" by the Dominoes - this song has striking imagery of a funeral - "There were four black horses, with eyes flaming red, there were roses tied to ribbons all around my baby's head..."

And I've always thought "The Wind" by the Diablos was about a girl that is sadly gone forever. It just has a morbid sound to me.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 09:40 pm:

David Hudson "Why must I kill her" Alston

By g-wiz (68.43.16.115) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

any body remember psycho
produced by johnny powers,was getting lots of play #1 request everywhere it was being played,i remember some of the words

can i fry me some fish mama
iam as hungry as can be ,oh lordy how i wish mama
that you would keep the baby quite cause my head is killing me,
"you think iam psycho dont ya mama
mama pour me a cup you think iam psyco dont ya mama
you better let em lock me up"

you know that little girl next door mama
i believe her name was betty white
oh dont tell me she dead mama ,i just saw her in the park
seems we were playin a game mama
i was holdin a wrench mama and my mind just walked away


that was the first verse , but this was a sic ass song
i havent heard it in 30 years ,he kills every body including his mama,
glenn

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:31 pm:

UNIFICS " THE BEGINNING OF MY END" starts off with the line "Up drove the hearse Cadillac"

By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:36 pm:

"Shannon" Henry Gross
....so I love my dog......

By Mark Speck (65.56.4.85) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 03:13 am:

"The Cold Hard Facts of Life" by Porter Wagoner is yet another country tune which combines adultery and murder.

Also, "Indiana Wants Me" (R. Dean Taylor), and most of the works of Dickey Lee (as a pop singer, "Patches" and "Laurie"; later as a country singer, the maudlin "Rocky"--country version of the Austin Roberts pop hit of the previous year--and "Angels, Roses and Rain".

Best,

Mark

By stephanie (206.214.1.19) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 08:38 pm:

The Shangrilas are the Queen of Death
Leader of the Pack
Long Live Our Love

I have to tell you one song that scared the heck out of me when I would listen to it is
Donna by Ritchie Valens that song was so scary its unreal...
Stephanie
also Roses for Mama
by the Convoy man CW McCall

By Soul Sister (65.43.153.219) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 10:25 pm:

Toby / Song for Donny

By Soul Sister (65.43.153.219) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 10:27 pm:

Forgot Night Train.

By Marvin (205.188.209.38) on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 10:39 pm:

How about the Unifics "The Beginning of My End" -1969-70?

By medusa9e (66.73.7.53) on Wednesday, April 16, 2003 - 08:23 pm:

Bobbie Gentry's song Ode To Billy Joe" remember?
Billy Joe McCallister jumped off of Tallahassee Bridge...and please don't ever 4get the Spinners with Philipe' Wynn up front singing about "Sadie".