By stephanie (206.214.2.48) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 07:59 pm:

Gang,
I used to laugh at some of those Motorcity recordings that Ian Levine did but after reading this on another music board I felt as guilty as sin.......Stephanie
In defence of...
Motorcity was a massive project undertaken with genuine
motives. Yes it was 'contrived' - in the same way Spector
'contrived' to make records, in the same way as Berry Gordy
'contrived' to make records, in the same way that George Martin
'contrived' to make records, although I am not comparing the
actual Motorcity recordings to anything produced by the
aforementioned. Don't forget that Motorcity and its founder
Ian Levine made the last-ever recordings by Mary Wells, Marv
Johnson, Earl Van Dyke, David Ruffin, Hattie Littles, Herman
Griffin and others when NOBODY else was going to record them.
Over 100 ex-Motown artists were recorded for the project, 90%
of whom otherwise had little chance of ever recording again.
The label had a top twenty U.K. hit with Frances Nero, an
obscure and previously lost Motown artist from the 60s. They made
the best record Chuck Jackson had released in 15 years, recorded
Saundra Edwards, a voice that hadn't been heard since her leads
with The Elgins, brought Wanda Rogers in from the cold etc, etc,
etc. I had close contact with Motorcity in the last year of its
existence - I worked there - and acknowledge that a lot of the
700+ Motorcity recordings fall short of the mark - and, believe
me, so did some of the artists. But Ian Levine tried to give these
people a chance at something other than the relatively useless
self-aggrandizing adoration of the anoraks who would prefer that
they languish in obscurity so they could carry on being elitist.
Hush indeed.

He is right when he says all of these things..
Stephanie

By DrewJ (195.93.50.9) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 08:17 am:

I agree Stephanie, while Ian Levine may not be everybodies favourite person, in fact he can be stubborn and rude, he did what he did because of his long standing love of Motown and because he believed the artists left along the way side deserved the chance to still be part of the music scene we love. The recordings may not have always come up to expectations, (although I think we would have rightly have been accused of wearing rose tinted specticles if we seriously expected them to be the golden age of Motown transported to perfection into the 80's and 90's music scene!)

What we should appreciate over and above the recordings themselves, is that the project got these artists performing again. Got them out on the road and to venues where we could hear them sing! The hits may have not come thick and fast for Motorcity but at least he did it! I remember the thrill I got, collecting my order from Our Price Records of Martha and the Vandellas 'step into my shoes'. Imagine how great it was to be able to order a 'new' recording by a favourite artist!

I'd never heard Frances Nero before 'Footsteps Following me'. It was Motorcity that opened me up to the likes of Liz Lands, Orthea Barnes, Pat Lewis, Chuck Jackson, the list goes on! The whole experience was very much appreciated by us guys who were too young to be around during the 60's. I get very frustrated when people get blinkered by the value of rare records and the elitist atutude of people in the soul scene. To me, its about appreciating good music and the fun of discovering new things by artists that I love.

Drew

By Reese (12.15.168.214) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:41 am:

I agree. I think the Motorcity recordings get a bad rap. To be sure, there are many clinkers in the bunch and the sound can be rather mechanical. But some of the songs like the Vandellas' STEP INTO MY SHOES or the Flos' CRAZY 'BOUT THE GUY are great. Just this past weekend, I received my copy of the Velvelettes' Motorcity album ONE DOOR CLOSES. Its a pretty good album, and Carolyn Gill-Street is in perfect voice.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 02:46 pm:

Having bought nearly everything issued on
Motorcity I think I give some advice on how to
look at those tracks.

Firstly if you recognize the song from the
original version skip over it using your remote
- you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation when
you get annoyed hearing programmed drum tracks instead of Benny Benjamin.

If the writer credits include "Ian Levine"
give it a chance - his lyrics do tend towards
cliche BUT there are some fair songs on the CD's
and the vocal performeances most of the time are
almost always at least good and sometimes
excellent - any of Betty Lavette's tracks will
show that she was singing as well as ever whatever
the inadequacies of the backing tracks.

Listen to the material in small doses - a few tracks at a time - preferably on compilations
- you'll pay more attention to the performances and not get so easily bored with the backing tracks which are very much "of their time"
in using synthesizers to the exclusion of anything else.

There's a lot of good stuff there but the main
thing to bear in mind is that it is NOT going
to sound like the Funks so don't expect it to.

I don't know how easy it is to find Motorcity
material in the US - over here the tracks turn up
on a multitude of budget labels. If you see
a Motorcity CD in a bargain bin give it a chance
- you just might find that you'll enjoy some of
it.

Something that does deserve mentioning are the
photographs on the original 12" singles and
albums - the artists look great ! Sometimes it
looks as if more was spent on "makeovers" than
on musicians but personally I loved seeing
photos of people like the Elgins looking like
"a million dollars". It made an old Motown
fan very happy to see people whose records I'd loved for decades looking so well and so happy.

Ian has his faults - who doesn't ? - but he did
the whole thing out of love and it should be
remembered in that spirit. The records were
never going to sell huge quantities anyway
so while I know there are plenty of people
disillusioned and p*****d off whit the whole
affair my feeling is that it's probably better
to chalk it up to experience and remember what
a fantastic feeling it must've been to attend
those reunions in Detroit and meet up with
friends who'd lost touch.

Davie

Personal note - I vividly remember seeing a
a four page feature, full of glossy photos
of the reunion in Detroit, in an issue of
"Blues and Soul". I'm a bit embarrassed, but
in no way ashamed. to say that when I saw those
photos I had tears running down my face. In the
middle of a crowded shop.: - )That's the power of
the music - and it still does it for me !

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

Davie

I think you make some very good points there, though I can't help feeling disappointed at what ultimately was achieved with some fine artists, who proved they could still cut it. The music has definitely not aged well, which is in total contrast to the Motown he was attempting to emulate. I can happily play an entire Motown CD through - twice - and still want more. I honestly can't sit through an entire Motorcity CD - that monotonous beat gets very tiring after a couple of tracks.

Conversely, (LA recordings aside) we're talking about the same group of musicians on just about every Motown classic - but what variety they display. (No examples necessary, I'm sure!)

Final observation: the Motorcity recordings are now relegated to cheapo budget CDs, while the original Motown can still command top-dollar in the marketplace. That's got to say something.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 03:38 pm:

Ritchie,

I can't sit through an entire Motorcity CD
either : - ) That's why I recommend a few tracks at a time.

The reason you can listen to a Motown CD all the way through is that what you're hearing is the
synthesis of many talented people - writers,
singers, musicians, producers, engineers - they're
ALL bringing their contribution to the feast.
Motown was never just one man's vision - Motorcity
was and therein is its weakness.

I've always felt that the main reason people
find Motorcity tracks tiring to listen to is the
drum programming. Now I'm no musician but I've
heard enough to know that there's far more to
drumming than keeping a metronomic beat. It's the
little changes in the patterns that Benny and
Uriel and the other guys play that keeps you interested and listening. If all you're doing
is seeting some computer to "right, 85 beats per minute for 50 seconds then change it to 95 beats
..." your ears get tired because there's nothing to keep your brain focussed, no little "real"
drummers changes to keep your imagination from drifting off.

Hope I'm making some sort of sense.

Overall I don't disagree with you - all I'm trying
to say that the stuff's out there languishing in
bargain bins and some of it's well worth hearing
(even if in small doses) :-)

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 03:58 pm:

Davie

Overall, I don't disagree with you either! There are some real goodies in there, but the catalogue really is the proverbial "curate's egg". Having worked with a lot of musicians over the years, I know full well that it's the genuine human touch that makes all the difference - the subtle nuances that not even Bill Gates' finest could attempt to emulate.

A few years ago, (in a time of pre-internet acute boredom) I decided to compile my 1000 all-time favourite records. Chuck Jackson's "All Over The World" was in that list, rubbing shoulders with the Spinners and the O'Jays - so I don't have a totally negative attitude!

By Edgar (200.46.132.12) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

Davie,
I experienced what you say just yesterday. I wanted a Lynda Laurence CD but I was apprehensive because most of the tracks I have with her on lead are Motorcity productions. So before burning it I took the recordings, programmed them in a certain other and when it was over I had approved it by inadvertently avoiding the "Motorcity accumulation syndrome" this way:
First four songs were Ian Levine productions:
1-4 The Man In My Life, I�m Not Taking a Chance, Right Around Midnight, Love Child�
I was almost fed up (of the drum program, not Lynda's performances) when "I Still Believe" started (number 5). I think this one has real musicians; it's a Steven Wagner FLOS production (not better than Ian's, but in this case he used musicians).
Back to Motorcity:
6- True Love Can't Be Replaced.
Then numero 7 was the Harry Nilsson-Lynda duet "Just One Look / Baby I'm Yours", which not only has real musicians, but was recorded live.
Another Motorcity number:
8- Crying Shame.
9- Back to Wagner's "Colours of Love" � with real musicians.
Number 10 and 11 were Motorcity: "Fresh Out of Tears" and the FLOS' "Hit and Miss". I can tell you that I enjoyed Lynda completely and decided to burn the CD.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:24 pm:

Having heard the Motorcity recordings, I have to tip my hat to Ian for doing what a lot of labels today are NOT doing - getting these legends back into the studio behind the microphone.

Sure, the industry can bestow these legends with awards & honors, but when it comes to getting them a record deal, except for a few lucky artists (Etta James on Private Music & Brenda Holloway on Stax/Fantasy, for example)all of a sudden the industry (labels, radio, etc)is looking for the nearest exit. Granted some of the Motorcity stuff makes me wanna cringe, I gotta tip my hat to Ian for putting his money where his mouth is and not let these folks languish in the wind.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:27 pm:

You've not heard them then, Kev? ;o)

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:36 pm:

Ritchie:
I've heard a few in the past but it was so long ago (around the time Raynoma Singleton wrote her autobiography & mentioned the Motorcity sessions).
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.200.153) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:45 pm:

Davie,Ritchie,I love it when you talk about the drum machines,please feel free to continue sharing your true feelings about them. Let it all out,don't be shy! We feel your pain.LOL

Slainte,Lynn

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

Well, Lynn - back in the mid-70s I had two friends who played bass and lead in an aspiring heavy Rock band. To supplement their meagre income they would also go out as a cabaret duo, accompanied by a drum machine. At a certain point in the proceedings, it was time to "introduce the band".

Nick would execute a Claptonesque lead solo, then Norman would play some intricate funky runs on the bass. Finally, Nick would announce: "and on drums, MiniPops Junior", which would be followed by thirty seconds of bum-chicka-bum-chicka-bum-chicka-bum... It usually got the biggest round of applause of the night!

By soulie dave (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 06:21 pm:

The artists on the Motorcity records were greats before Ian Lavine recorded them, and were still greats after he had recorded them. In my oppinion most of the vocal performances were good. What you would expect from such tallented people, Most of the records I've heard were awfull. Electronic Funk Brothers, no thanks. Gimme the real thing any day. LEVINE! I wish you'd left well alone.

By stephanie (207.221.193.245) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

Soulie Dave
I have to disagree respectfully. Before the Motorcity recordings I had never heard of Frances Nero and I got a chance to hear for the last time Miss Wanda Rogers throughout her personal problems.

I got to hear some of the other Motown artists again and I have to tell you Im sure some of them didnt even know some of the fans cared about them anymore....I think it was a good experience for all of them to see each other again. I dont know how Ian pulled it off to be honest with you.
Stephanie

By Clay (66.73.178.178) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:06 am:

Ian levine
May have recorded a busload of the original forgotten artist,but he never intended to pay any of them any royalties. Why do I say this? because to this date he has'nt so much as sent anyone of them a statement showing sales or deficits. He made deals all over the world with the product and after he got all he could get making his deals he got rid of the company and told everyone he lost money. Pretty neat trick,seeing that most of the acts could never afford to litigate his questionable actions. He wrote a bad check to a artist for $1500.00 and paid some artist and lied to others. Some he ask to promised not to tell others how much he paid them. The recording contracts were the PITS and most of them signed them without legal representation or decided to do the work anyway and simply sign a release for him to be able to release the product.

Sure, he may have loved MOTOWN,but I'm not so sure he showed his love for the artist he put on the MotorCity-Charlie Records label. When your intentions are to create good records with
legendary artist to release worldwide or just in the UK where they are still appreciated you don't
abandon them after you cut your deal and call back to the states 2yrs later and ask are there people
in Detroit who want to do me harm if I return there
And if anyone on this forum can find an act that has earn 5 American dollars on their project since
Ian flew the coupe PLEASE have them verify this on
SDC. I wonder how many of the artist actually got a job after the release of the product. Francis Nero
went to England to promote her single and was treated like furniture by Ian Levine and left alone
in a property there by levine without a clue as to why.

Ian is comfy in the UK,but one day he'll have to
answer to a source higher than his wildest dreams.
Although it's an old statement it still remains a fact"GOD don't like UGLY. I personally witnessed the joy and sorrow of the MotorCity project. Peace

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:30 am:

I have two MotorCity CD's. I listened to them once. I've had them for a couple years. I guess I'll give it another try, and see if it hits me this time in a nice way.

By stephanie (199.183.163.56) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Clay
I was not aware of all of this!!! I have a question for you since the material didnt sell a lot did Ian just make quick money? How does he make his living anyway is he a producer in England? Has he produced any hits at all? I heard the only one that was remotely a hit was the Frances Nero project.

Thats a shame the Motown people didnt get much work Im sorry to hear that. I guess in England this guy is some kind of hero since they love Motown.
Steph

By Clay (66.73.179.233) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Hi Stephanie,
Ian's family is somewhat well off and in American terms he never missed a meal and always had extra money to by(Motown)records. I've heard he was involved in a few so-called hits in the UK markets but to my knowledge he's never had a hit in ANY of the American markets/charts as a producer or writer. Don't think for one moment that Ian did'nt get (his) initial investment back + through some of the licensing deals he made with the MotorCity product.

As for him being a hero in the UK, I would'nt want to wager on that because I'm sure he's burned a few
major bridges over there as well with his investors
and some of the folk he cut deals with. If he was such a hero why do people cringe when his name is mentioned ? I think the intire MotorCity project was a bit more complex than Ian anticipated. You can't make classic hit records on classic artists with a drum machine and a synth/keyboard on every single trk. although it's now just another bit of negative history about how often Artist,writers and producers get SCREWED the MotorCity project was dead and buried long before the Funeral. Peace

By BankHouseDave (195.93.33.184) on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

Ian Levine is back in obscurity, though cheap shops are still flooded with his product. If he ripped the acts off, that's more bad news. He said he loved Motown, but he missed the point. If he wanted to get the thing working again in the eighties, he should've started with the Funks. I believe they were 'available'. Music without musicians is like sex without company.

By TonyRussi (68.18.227.143) on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 12:45 pm:

Hey Clay, I wasn't going to mention this before but since you told it like it is I will say that I know Mary Wells told me several months before she passed that a certain person in England owed her money and also for a worthless check.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 01:37 pm:

Stephanie, Ian Lavine is not a hero to a lot of British soul fans. Though he was a main player and made a big contribution to the formation of the Northern Soul scene in the early days over here. On his numerous holidays to the States, with his parents when he was younger, he unearthed many unknown and forgotten records during the 60's.
He continued to be a top DJ through the 70's, but in the end alienated a lot of soul fans by turning one of the top soul clubs over here into a disco club.
He alienated die hard 60's soul fans even more with the Motorcity stuff. Thats my oppinion anyway.
Regards, SDUK

By Millie (216.8.139.140) on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 02:17 pm:

I've posted my opinion of Ian Levine in the past, however, I will reiterate once again for those who missed it.

When Ian came to Detroit in 1989, I was working at an oldies radio station and we did a live interview with him. I met him, we talked, I told him I had worked for Motown in the early 70's and he offered me a job doing PR for his Motortown project. It sounded fascinating to me, so I accepted. The best part was meeting the artists, hearing their stories, watching them record at Masterpiece Sound (Sylvia's Moy's studio), and seeing the hope in their eyes at the prospect of getting a second chance at stardom. Well, it just didn't happen. I tried shopping the project to different labels, but no one was interested for a couple of reasons, one being that almost every song sounded the same, and they all had a disco beat! Mary Wells was not the only artist to get stiffed by Ian...he stiffed a lot of people, including me. The first check he gave me bounced, and the second one (shame on me...I should have learned my lesson)did the same! Everyone involved with the project had high expectations, and we were all disappointed. In retrospect, when I listen to all the CD's, I still think they're good, and I'm just sorry the project didn't prove successful...especially for the artists who looked at it as their last chance.

By shawn1 (65.57.31.204) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 08:09 pm:

I think Mary Wilson,Martha Reeves and The Vandellas,Brenda Holloway and The Flos did the best work for Ian.But the drum machine could work a nerve ok !Shawn

By MikeSku (64.9.11.62) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:02 am:

After reading all of the postings on the Motorcity sessions, I certainly learned a lot. However, I am only disillusioned, not diappointed. The Motorcity stuff that I have will always be among my most treasured records and CDs because Motorcity was a chance for all my old-time favorites to record again. I never even thought about the "drum machine" or "monotony" of the tracks. I always thought of the Levine productions as "Motown" meets "High Energy". That was what Ian Levine was famous for in the 80s. Many UK labels, such as Record Shack (Levine's), Passion, and Erc (among others) really pumped out a lot of dance music. Some of it was rather cookie-cutter, but that was a sign of the times. I never saw it as Ian levine doing disservice or injustice to the former Motown stars. Instead, I think he paid them homage. Did anyone else? I am happy to have some of the last recordings by Mary Wells, David Ruffin, etc. I still seek out as much music as I can by former Motown stars. It doesn't matter what label, what producer. I like to pay my favorites homage, too. It's what "fans" do.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.50) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 10:43 am:

Hattie Littles said about a year before she passed that she had to threatened to cut Ian Levine from ---hole to appetite before he gave her the money she was due.

The only American artist that really benefitted from Ian Levine was Chicagoan Barbara Pennington a singer he discovered when he first came to the States looking for Black artists to record. She was not part of the Motorcity project. Barbara has nothing but good things to say about Levine, he took her from nothing (a sometime bar singer)and produced a few UK hits on her. She even lived in the country for a number of years before returning to the Chicago area. She remembers a show she did with Edwin Starr at some little dingy club in England that paid chicken feed and feeling sorry for Edwin for having to play such a lowly gig.

I can't think of any of the Motorcity artists that benefitted. The ones who were touring before Levine toured after Levine; the ones who were not touring before Levine, didn't do much after Levine either.

By Lagunabeach (67.24.157.168) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:24 am:

I agree about that drum programming. Tedious, for sure. But, I do like some of the Motorcity recordings. I have the complete Mary Wells and Hattie Littles. The FLO'S recordings are quite good. Syreeta's "With You I'm Born Again" blows me away. I got a 3 cd set from Sweden on eBay quite cheap and have really enjoyed it for the most part. It's allowed me to hear artists I've never heard before (some of which I'm sure are not at their best or the best material, nonetheless, it's there and I'm grateful to have it). I finally got to hear the Andantes and Sisters Love. I'm sorry to hear many artists got ripped off. Didn't I hear Berry Gordy played that game, too? And, not ALL Motown recordings were top notch, either. The one thing for even the bad stuff was the wonderful musicians in the backround that never got their dues (until recently). I guess I didn't expect "exact" Motown recordings and can appreciate the Motorcity recordings for what they are.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.50) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 11:36 am:

The best Motorcity recordings were the ones done by obscure artists like Hattie Littles, Sammy Ward, etc. I also like some tracks he did on Chuck Jackson, Bobby Taylor and G. C. Cameron. But, I agree with whoever said you can't listen to a whole CD of the stuff. The drum machine and the overall productions will drive you crazy.

Another major problem I had with Motorcity, other than the sound, when it was first released here (in the States) via various companies like Hot Productions is that the CDs cost more than the real deal Motown CDs.

By Reese (12.15.169.254) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 01:45 pm:

I'm curious about one thing. I've read that some of the Motorcity artists feel that they were taken advantage of financially. It is my understanding that the only real hit from the Motorcity project was Frances Nero's FOOTSTEPS FOLLOWING ME. If this is true, my question is, why would the artists involved expect royalties on unsuccessful projects?

Actually, after typing the above, I thought of something. The rights to these recordings have changed hands many times. So maybe the artists are expecting some payments from that, as well they should. But does anyone know how many recordings have actually been sold?

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 05:07 pm:

Reese,

I'd imagine the actual sales figures for Motorcity
tracks are a bigger secret than the sales figures
for Motown itself.

As far as I can see only Frances Nero and Chuck
Jackson sold in any quantity - Motorcity tracks
were hard to find in Glasgow as new releases

By Eli (141.151.91.211) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 06:22 pm:

One cannot get paid if there are no royalties to pay!!!
Artists sometimes are so misinformed and naieve to the "business" of the music biz and they expect "goo gobs" of money form records that you cant even give away.
So they better wake up and smell the coffee and be happy for the careers that they once had and the adulation and tremendous respect that we give them here on SD and with fans worldwide.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.26) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:17 pm:

I agree with everything you said in that last post Eli. But I fault the recording companies for not educating the artists about the business. Many artists believe the hype. They hear their record on the radio and think thousands are being sold across America, particularly when a friend or relative who lives in another State hears it too. It's true many artists don't have any royalties coming, but think they do. I was talking about artists who do have monies coming but never receive it.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 02:57 am:

If anyone has access to financial data, I'd suggest they check out the mysterious "Tropicana Holdings" company, who still apparently retain the copyright to the Nightmare/Motorcity recordings. I believe it's based in the Bahamas, making it probably unaccountable either in the UK or the US.