By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:08 pm:

Does anyone know what Pam Sawyer and Gloria Jones are doing these days? They wrote some wonderful tunes at Motown and were in a group of very few women on the creative staff at Motown, including the wonderful Valerie Simpson. After listening to the 70s Supremes Anthology and hearing some cuts from the Sawyer/Jones produced shelved Promises Kept album, I realized how talented these women were/are.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.43) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:16 pm:

Cleo,
great thread,
Gloria Jones,on uptown records released my all time gloria Jones 45 fave called
COME GO WITH ME,with a great flip,
also
Tainted Love on Champion records,
Heartbeat,with Billy Preston backing her plus others.
Needless to say all Rare/Northern soul sounds.
Also I would love to hear how they are both doing,as Pam Sawyer is also a fave.
MEL.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:27 pm:

Gloria Jones' "Tainted Love" is one of my favorite rarities! It was written & produced by former Four Lads leader Ed Cobb (who also wrote "Every Little Bit Hurts" and later collaborated with Van McCoy). Two minutes of pure West Coast pop/soul....

Hey Mel:
Didn't Gloria later date that "Jeepster of Love" the late Marc "T-Rex" Bolan?

Regards,
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.43) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:31 pm:

Thats right Kev,
do you remember Get it on by T-Rex,
always thought it had a great sax break in it.
Mel.
Get back to our music quick kev,
or my street cred will take a severe dive mate!

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.43) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

The FLIP TO come go with me is
How do you tell an angel
or something like that
but an awesome track.
Kev,do you know the Come go with me track?
if not,then brother check it out.
Mel.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:16 pm:

Will do, Mel! Hey, don't ever worry about your streed cred..it's all good!
Kevin Goins - "KevGo"

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.2) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:54 pm:

Cheers Kev.

By Andy Rix (195.93.33.10) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:41 pm:

Gloria's brother told me she was living in South Africa ... don't know about Pam

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:49 pm:

Kev,

Van McCoy's co-writer was Joe Cobb not Ed.

Cleo,

Gloria's pretty much retired from the business
as far as writing / recording.

Didn't she marry Marc Bolan ? She's definitely the mother of his son. She's probably kept busy
administering Marc Bolan's estate if that's the
case.

By Rich (12.90.26.59) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:57 pm:

CH, nice start, It'll be interesting to read what folks know about these talented ladies. They wrote and produced one of my all-time favorite cuts "Assembly Line" from the Commodores Machine Gun album, which incidentally happens to be one of my favorite albums.

By John Lester (217.40.232.215) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:16 pm:

Gloria was featured in a 60 minute interview on Metro (a free newspaper that is given out in the London Underground).

The main points were
She is living in Los Angeles and happily to a record executive
The car crash in which she was travelling when Marc Bolan was taken from this earth had a bad effect on her voice and took away the power she once had.
She also remarked that her proudest achivements were with the Commodores.

The Share My Love album was not promoted as this was the time when she decided to join Marc on his European tour but she did say that Motown was behind her with the album but respected her wishes.

Her son from Marc is her priority in life


The UK connection continues.....Pamela Sawyer comes from Romford in East London. We talked on SD about Pam sometime last year

By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:32 pm:

From what I understand, Pam Sawyer is still living in LA...don't know much more then that. I'll give Donna Sekulidis a call...she and Pam used to write together, and they've kept in touch throughout the years. Donna works at the Fox Theatre in Detroit as their production manager.

By Mark Speck (65.57.20.87) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:48 am:

Pam Sawyer also co-wrote some great songs with Lori Burton--hits like "I Ain't Gonna Eat Out My Heart Anymore" (Young Rascals) and "Baby Let's Wait" (Royal Guardsmen), but they also wrote the fantastic "Like One" for Jean Carter! What a tune that one is!!

Best,

Mark

By John Lester (213.123.119.94) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 03:43 am:

Methinks...the late Frankie Gaye married a lady from East London...might be Romford or even nearby Ilford. Must be something they put in the water! lol

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.95) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:01 am:

Hey Mark,,
yet another one in my box,
The great
Jean Carter's
Like one.
MEL.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:03 pm:

Rich:
I stand corrected regarding the Cobbs.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Rich (162.33.235.35) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:19 pm:

That was Davie, dawg, I've read enough of your posts KevGo to know who's gonna correct who and it ain't gonna be me correcting you - LOL. Keep 'em coming.

Rich K

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:22 pm:

Rich:
Thanks so much for the humor!
Kevin Goins - "KevGo"

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.85) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:07 pm:

John Lester,
Hey mate,do you or did you know
Clive Richardson at all,if so do you know how to contact him.
Sorry to change the music thread.
Normal play will resume,
Thank you.
MEL.

By Mark Speck (64.158.98.186) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:43 pm:

Mel, Clive Richardson just joined the southern soul group at Yahoo!

If you want to join the fun over there, here's the link: southernsoul-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Best,

Mark

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.95) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 12:09 am:

Many thanks Mark.
MEL.

By PhilH (203.221.52.110) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 03:56 am:

The last I heard of Pam Sawyer was in Steve Bryant's late lamented SOULED OUT mag in the early 80's. At that time, Pam had just left Jobete and had moved back to the Romford/Ilford area (close to where Steve lives) and started a new publishing company. I haven't been in touch with Steve for years, so if any of you Londoners know him, perhaps you could ask him!

Phil

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 11:55 am:

It seems a shame that some of the newer writers and producers have not sought out Pam Sawyer, Gloria Jones, or Frank Wilson, Clay McMurray, or Nick Ashford/Valerie Simpson for that matter to put some melody and interest back into songs. What is being produced these days is groove-laden dreck!

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.96.67) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:13 pm:

How long has Donna Sekulidis been back in Detroit?

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 03:22 pm:

I once met Pam Sawyer. She came to a show in LA
with Mary Wells' manager. This was back around
1984. She was blonde, that I do remember, and
she lived in LA at the time.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 09:37 am:

Pam Sawyer and Lori Burton were a GREAT team in that brief mid 6Ts period they were writing together. Apart from the ace girl group/girly soul stuff they did (Sapphires- "Slow Fizz", Cindy Malone- "Try To Understand" (also covered by Lulu!!), Patti Labelle- "All Or Nothing", Jean Carter- "Like One"....), they wrote a couple of magnificent uptown soul ballads in Big Dee Irwin's "You Satisfy My Needs" and Prince Harold's "Forget About Me".

If anyone can tell me who Eddie Newman is (who is credited with producing "You Satisfy My Needs"), I'd be grateful: most obscure producer/writer names usually turn up something on google: not this one! I have heard of Roy Glover, obviously. (the arranger) Why hasn't "Forget About Me" made it to CD yet?? (at least as far as I know) It was an RnB hit, so there's really no excuse- Spectrum: get on it NOW! Any other U.K SoulfulDetroiters remember those "Mobile Discotheque" LPs from the 70s?? (one each for Avco,Mercury and Chess/Janus) Some great music hiding behind those appaling covers!!

Has anyone here heard Lori Burton's solo LP for Mercury in 67??("Breakout") Is it any good?? I have heard a couple of the Whyte Boots tracks Sawyer and Burton did (was it them singing to??)- they are kind of fun in a camp/Shangri-Las style.

One more sad trainspotter question and I'll go away. I remember reading somewhere that when Sawyer moved to Motown, Burton initially came with her. Is this true? Are there some Sayer/Burton compositions in the vault somewhere?? It still always knocks me back that oiginally Pam was an English housewife before she decided to have a go at making a career writing songs. Really inspiring that she made it. (and then some!)

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 10:03 am:

Yan,

Yes, the Whyte Boots were Pam & Lori. I've been
wanting to hear that record for the last twenty five years since Bomp did an great article
on Lori Burton. The Lori Burton solo album's
supposed to be excellent but I've yet to hear it.

I'm not sure about Lori going to Motown, I think
what happened was they were both offered Jobete
contracts but only Pam signed - Lori stayed in
New York and married producer Roy Cicala (they
both produced the Arbors later singles on Date).

I'm still working on a listing of Pam & Lori's
songs - pity that issue of "Bomp" disappeared
years ago.

Eddie Newman ? - I think his name's Newmark - it
looks as if he probably owned the Rotate label
which issued that Dee Irwin single which I agree
is a lost classic.

I want to hear that Prince Harold track too :-)

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 10:43 am:

Davie-

...thanks for the info. Eddie NEWMARK?? Stupid, stupid- that explains a few things! Of course when the producer listed on the label also owns the label, you can never quite be sure if he did actually produce the record!

As for Prince Harold, I don't think the original 45 would be rare or expensive (someone told me it got an obscure U.K issue, which propably would be rare and expensive) However do keep your eyes peeled for that Mercury Mobile Discotheque LP; believe me if you visit enough of even (maybe especially) the least specialist 2nd-hand shops, odds are you will find one. I always seem to see them about. They have very trashy covers featuring a cartoon cat in a plane (I think thats what it was!) and various gormless white (only) youth chucking themselves about to the sounds of various gormles white (only) bearded DJs. Acyually the LPs are worth buying for the covers alone!

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 11:02 am:

Davie-

...The Whyte Boots' most famous track "Nightmare" was on an obscure compilation CD called Garage Girls- you could propably get it on Gemm; or do you only buy originals on vinyl??

Just to brighten everyone's day, here are the lyrics to "Nightmare"; copied from a lyrics website I can't remember. Camp classic!

Nightmare
The Whyte Boots



Spoken: Yeah, no boy�s worth the trouble that I�m in. My friends they told me, they said I could win. They said, �Don�t let her get away with it,� but I never should have listened.



You can beat her

You can win

Look out she�s sneering

Better wipe off her grin

Get her, get her

Push her to the ground

Ger her, get her

Push her down



Spoken: �They�re right,� I thought. She did take my Bobby away, putting me down, showing everybody his ring. Well, I thought I�d like to scare her a little, but I never meant to hurt her or anything.



You can beat her

You can win

Look out she�s sneering

Better wipe off her grin

Get her, get her

Push her to the ground

Ger her, get her

Push her down



(Fight sounds)



Oooh, oooh, oooh�



Spoken: She lay so still. I knew that something was wrong. And I said, �Help me, girls. What should I do? What should I do?!�



Run, run, run�



I tried to run

But it was too late

The cop held me

Said, �Girl, you better wait.�

�Get her, get her,�

That�s what they said

�Get her, get her�

It�s all my fault she�s dead



She didn�t want to fight

She didn�t want to fight

She didn�t want to fight�



Spoken: I didn�t want to fight. What could I do? They were standing around. I didn�t want to fight. Please don�t take me. No. Don�t take me. Help me, somebody, please. Don�t let �em do this. No. No. No. I didn�t want to fight. (Fade)

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 05:06 pm:

Hey Davie-

Go to this site and you can buy a re-issue of "Nightmare" on 45-

http://www.deadendrecords.com/alpunkvz.htm

...I'd imagine "Lauper Death" is a 45 re-issue label for Garage/Bizarro pop in the same way Norton do rockabilly (everyone else get the superior version of Carl Perkin's "Love Rubbed Off" in their Sun series?? I hope so!), or the new Grapevine label are doing crossover/northern. Hopefully they are legit like these ones are.

By Mark Speck (65.57.17.222) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 03:55 am:

"Nightmare" is also available on a 2 CD set that Mercury Chronicles issued a couple of years ago, "Growin' Up Too Fast".

Best,

Mark

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 02:03 pm:

PAM SAWYER WROTE SOME GREAT SONGS FOR EDDIE KENDRICKS IN THE 70'S,GREAT WRITER.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

Mark,

Thanks - I couldn't remember the name of that
comp CD. I haven't seen any copies in Glasgow so it looks as if it's one for an e-bay search.

Yan,

"Try To Understand" - Cindy Malone's the second
(?) version, from 9/66. Lulu's version was released in the US approx. 9/65

By David Meikle (80.5.115.23) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 01:26 pm:

Label scan of Gloria's legendary 45 courtesy Graham

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.107) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 02:52 pm:

Sweet Memories.
mel.

By stillsoulin (213.122.82.250) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 04:07 pm:

hi all,
i have the lori burton lp, not played it in ages,by the way nightmare features on the lp, not sure if it is the same take as the white boots as i have never heard that.
track listing for "breakout" lp lori burton. mercury sr 61136.
side one.
gotta make you love me (great northern dancer)
since i lost your lovin (ballad)
there is no way (to stop lovin you) (northern dancer)
the hurt wont go away (ballad)
gotta get over you (uptempo)

side two.
bye bye charlie (uptempo)
love was (midtempo)
let no one come between us (dreamy midtempo dancer)
only your love (ballad)
nightmare (shangri las style)
all tracks burton/sawyer compositions.
hope this is of interest.
rob.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 06:39 pm:

Cheers Rob- though I wonder in cases like this if it was better that I didn't know anything about the LP; as it will only make me want something that I'll propably never get!

Gloria Jones: one record I really like from her is "Look What You Started" on Minit- kind of a forgotten oldie. I was just thinking the other day how crazy it is that there have been approximately 4 billion and 73 Northern soul compilations of EMI material and this has never been on CD (as far as I know)- you would of thought they would have exhausted everything, but instead we get the same old tracks on every CD. That goes double for Johnny Sayles- "Anything For You" and George Jackson's "Find Em, Fool Em and Forget Em"!! (actually triple for George Jackson; it's an international outrage!) I believe both of these were big at the Wheel and other early venues; but I guess if it wasn't played at Wigan- "who cares"?? Just a little imagination is all thats needed. (if it's the case that the tracks I just mentioned can't be re-issued for some contractual reason, and people have tried- forget everything I just said and I'm an idiot!)

"....I wished I had found you, fooled you and and forgot you; just like my Father said...."

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.69) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 07:26 pm:

Hey Yan,
check out these by the superb Johnny Sayles.
Both absolute stormers.
'I'm Satisfied'
and
'Tell me where I stand'.
thats if you dont know them but probably will.

or George Jackson's
'I dont have the time to love'
'That Lonely Night'
'who was that guy'.

Gloria Jones
2 flipsides,
'how do you tell an angel'flip to her best side of 'come go with me'.
Also not bad is the flip to 'Tainted Love'
'my bad boys coming home'.
also the flip to the pressing of 'come go with me' on Canterbury called 'run one flight of stairs' or something like that.
Or just by the album.

Theres still thousands of sounds that are about,be it old wheel,mojo,junction,mecca,pendulum.torch,or whatever that either got played a few times or just the once.
Dont forget the amount of spins a lot of stuff got spun at the Mecca(71/76)or torch etc was twice and some once as the amount of sounds around that time was phenomenal.Wigan was good from 73/mid 70s for good obscurities but tended to play mecca gems.Searling kept it alive.
But as for unknown uk etc and us there out there brother.
As for unreleased stuff,I Have half of my mates rare/northern collection on tape,around 20,000 and still havent finished,plus my own collection and friends.
Its surprising the stuff you wouldnt give a second glance at.
So yan,buddy,
keep on keeping on'
and dont let the jones' get ya down.
Mel(still 4 beats to the bar and grooving at the go-go thanks to weldon and co,)

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 08:49 pm:

I've read that "Tainted Love" has been bootlegged a few times but I think my copy (above) is for real. I would like to know for sure. How can you tell?
Graham

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.47) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 09:24 pm:

Graham,
I Always remember the pressing being a blue label.This is what Johnny Manship states in his Guide to pressings etc.(although not quite 100% right,but near enough).
'Possibly the most bootlegged northern soul record of all time.
Appears in styrene and vinyl with both black and silver and green and silver labels and red and black,maroon and purple and silver labels.
Original
has black/silver label pressed in both styrene and vinyl.
West Coast original press has
Delta no.56960.
The styrene bootleg has
Delta no.99069.

Still with me graham?
I hope this helps you mate.
mel(feeling puzzled)

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

Mel - Many thanks. I think mine is an original as I bought it in Detroit many years ago - quite cheaply. What does Manship say it's worth?
Graham

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.39) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 10:30 pm:

Graham,
a paltry 40 pounds. But thats in a book of his that price wise he is very very conservative as he puts all prices as pounds/dollars.
Both the same rate,
hes not daft is our Johnny.I reckon you would get around the 60/75 mark at an outside guess.
I Will ask a dealer mate of mine who sells to Manship and he will give me a proper price.
Ill give you 40 for it mate(ho ho)
mel.

By Mark Speck (65.58.49.53) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 12:41 am:

Regarding the George Jackson Fame tracks: I don't believe EMI owns the rights to the Fame material, that Rick Hall does.

So until Rick decides to bend a little, you won't be seeing this material on CD. Sorry.

Best,

Mark

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 07:15 am:

Mark- Are you sure?? -only a few years ago (98/99) an EMI soul compilation came out with Fame stuff galore. I am pretty sure that the earlier Fame material is accsesable thru' Atlantic (Art Freeman's "Slippin Around" and James Barnett's "Keep On Talkin" were both on a Kent CD licsenced through Atlantic)-later stuff through Capitol/EMI.

The soul compilation I am referring to was called "Get Involved": I think it's one of the best compilations of 70S (and some late 60s) soul I've ever heard. It has George Jackson's "My Desires Are Getting The Best Of Me"; which of course was the flip to "Find Em, Fool Em" when it originally came out on Fame, and then in the U.K on Capitol. It also has Candi Staton's "Too Hurt To Cry" and George Soule's "Get Involved" which, if memory serves me right, both came out on Fame, and DIDN'T get U.K releases on Capitol. It would seem very strange to me if "My Desires" and these tracks could be put out by EMI and "Find Em, Fool Em And Forget Em" couldn't. Perhaps in both those cases (the Kent Atlantic CD, and the EMI CD) the tracks in question are being licsenced through Rick Hall; but even so- it does show that it can and has been done.

Mel- Yeah there are many forgotten Northern sides. However in the case of Johnny Sayles/George Jackson we are not talking about small label obscurities played once at the Pendulum in the early 70s or something. Both tracks are by well known artists on well known labels with well known producers (with soul fans), neither track flopped big-time- although both deserved more sucsess. And both gained U.K releases at the time and were played more than just once or twice. But yes; I get your point.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.3) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:01 am:

Yan,
nearly every well/semi well known artist seems to have cut an uptempo dancer or mid tempo dancer that goes against the grain of what they are known for.
Such as Arthur Alexander(keep her guessin'),Ray Agee(I'm losing again)Jewel Akens(Mama take your daughter back)Ricky Ricks/Lavern Baker(your the boss)Coasters(buddy Guy)crazy baby etc etc.
Isnt it funny how the off the grain tracks that were recorded by known rnb/doo-wop/soul artists/groups etc were always picked up over the years on the scene.
I get your point,a pity they werent hits for them the first time around.
mel.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:52 am:

I think the point as well, was that of all the major labels EMI have been the most plundered; propably because they are UK-based as the rare-soul re-issue scene mostly is. Think back to those first Kent compilations in the early 80s; many of them of EMI material (or ABC/MCA). By contrast it wasn't till very near the end of their time issuing vinyl that Kent were allowed near the Atlantic/Warners vaults: and that great "Paying Our Dues" LP came out.

Heres 4 more EMI (I think) tracks I'd love to see on CD-

WILLIE TEE- Take Your Time
BETTYE SWANN- Closed For The Season
BARBARA BANKS- Living In The Past
BABY WASHINGTON- I Got It Bad

.....oh, and just for fun (I'm bored!) heres a dream Northern Soul (mostly)compilation CD of Universal material. Either stuff that hasn't been on CD (legit) or hasn't been overexposed on CD. Bit of everything here; from Crossover to Wigan pop- all good tho'. It would sell millions, I swear Harry!!

1.BUD HARPER-Mr Soul
2.JOEY HEATHERTON-When You Call Me Baby
3.SAPPHIRES-Evil One
4.JIMMY RADCLIFFE-I'll Pretend I'm Loving You
5.LEE ROYE-Tears
6.JOANNE GARRET-Foolish Me
7.MINITS-Still A Part Of Me
8.ALBERT JONES-15 Cent Love
9.JIVE FIVE-If I Had A Chance To Love You
10.CISSY HOUSTON- Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself
12.TEMPTATIONS-Say You
13.KIM WESTON-Gonna Make It Up To You
14.DALTON BOYS-I've Been Cheated
15.EDDIE PARKER-Body Chains
17.OTIS LEAVILL-It's The Same Old Me
18.KIM WESTON- Just The Kind Of Guy
19.JACKIE ROSS-Trust In Me
20.PRINCE HAROLD-Forget About Me
21.KIM WESTON-Thats Groovy
22.ROY HAMILTON-The Panic Is On
23.GARLAND GREEN-Just Aint Good Enough
24.DELLS-It's All Up To You
25.RONNIE MCNEIR-Wendys Gone

..that was fun!

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:53 am:

There you go! (accidentally posted the above on another thread instead)

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 02:12 pm:

Yan,

Re Fame - the post-Atlantic material is controlled
by Rick Hall himself and he refuses to authorise
any releases. I've a feeling that a few Capitol-era FAme tracks have cropped up on UK CD's, presumably via EMI, but as far as I can tell they
are not authorised by Rick Hall himself.

The southern soul group have been trying for
ages to get Fame material out on CD but despite
his son Rodney being in favour Rick refuses to budge.

By Yan (62.30.112.1) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 04:43 pm:

That IS strange; the CD in question ("Get Involved") was issued directly by EMI (I think it was on their EMI Gold label) and was a very professional affair indeed, and obviously using masters. (the sound quality throughout was superb; once again- "Get Involved", I don't think it's deleted yet and it was budget price too!You won't buy a better 70s soul compilation) How would these tracks get on the CD if Rick Hall owned ALL the masters post Atlantic distribution and refused to issue any of them?? I think EMI must have some option left on the sides cut at Fame during Capitol's dist. period. Either that or they caught Rick on a good day!

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.120) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 05:31 pm:

Yan,
good list mate,
great to see the Jimmy Radcliffe cut,which as far as I know was only available on an album.Cant think of it now but have taped from it in the past.
What about Jimmys 'my ship is coming in' on Aurora(no.154)c/w 'goin'where the lovin'is'.
And his superb (there goes)the forgotten man'on U.A.(no.1024)c/w 'an awful lot of crying'.
Plus the vocal to Steve Karmens 'Breakaway'.

Here's a quick mish mash compilation for you!!!!
featuring
1/Antiques-Go for yourself-LaSalle.
2/Poets-wrapped around your finger-J2.
3/George Kirby-what can I do-Cadet.
4/Howard Guyton-I watched you slowly slip away-Verve.
5/Chi Lites-She's Mine-Blue Rock.
6/Dana Valery-you dont know where your interest lies-Columbia.
7/Paris-Sleepless Nights-Doc.
8/Toni Basil-Breakaway-A&M.
9/Wade Flemons-That other place-Vee Jay.
10/Kenny Carlton-Lost and Found-Blue Rock.
11/Chuck Flamingo-Whats my chances-Rojac.
12/Cashmeres-Showstopper-Hem.
13/Little Ritchie-One Bo Dillion years-S.Stage7.
14/Miki Farrow-Could it be-Karate.
15/Miki Farrow-Set my heart at ease-Karate.
16/Billy Woods-Let me make you happy-Sussex.
17/Adventurers-Easy Baby-Compass.
18/Gerald Sims-Cool Breeze-Okeh.
19/Ambers-potion of love/another love-Smash.
20/Gene Toones-What more do you want-Simco.
21/Bobby Diamond-Stop-Columbia.
22/Maria Tynes-Queen is on her Knees-Uptown.
23/Epsilons-Mind in a bind-Hem.
24/Frank Beverley&Butlers-Because of my Heart-Rouser.
25/Ty Karim-You really made it good to me-Romark.

There,what do you think,
I am trying to keep with the not so fast numbers,in general.All taken from the actual records which over the years I have managed to either obtain myself or from various mates.
The cds are either shite in production apart from a select few,or sound far to good,to me anyway,give me the vinyl anyday baby.

Only about another 25/30,000 tracks to show you if we keep at it.
Sounds so nice,
play them Thrice!
Mel-o-dy.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 07:35 pm:

I didn't know Jimmy Radcliffe's "I'll Pretend I'm Loving You" was on an LP; the first I'd heard of it was as a previously unreleased track featured on, strangely, a 1997 soundtrack CD ("Eves Bayou" I think: I'll admit I haven't got the CD, and that a mate burned it on CDR for me) on MCA/Universal. Coming from this unusual source (for a Northern soul track) it hasn't got the exposure it deserves on the scene; certainly if it was discovered as an obscure 45 it would be massive right now. So thats why I chose it for my "fantasy" compilation of Universal stuff. (please let me know what LP if it occurs to you) The Jackie Ross track is another CD only "previously unreleased" cut: it's really fantastic and the CD it's from is deleted now and in big demand. Spectrum NEED to put this out now while it's hot.

Just realised I missed out 11 and 16: you can drop in Two People's "Stop Leave My Heart Alone" at no. 11 (don't think this has been on CD yet)and Marvin Gaye's beautiful floater "My Love For You" (thank you Mickey Stevenson, Ivy Hunter and whoever arranged it too!) at no. 16. (only on "The Master" box set)

I love that George Kirby track too- great choice Mel. (as is your whole comp- what I've heard of it) At the risk of you punching me I'll (very) quickly mention that this is on one of my very favourite CDs ever: Kent's "Chess Northern Soul". Sorry!

Believe me I do understand the vinyl-only thing: in an ideal world, yeah. But I just don't have the funds, I'm afraid.

So does anyone at Spectrum wanna make my CD?? My commission on the project will be very reasonable, I promise!

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.52) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 12:22 am:

Yan,
(Jimmy Radcliffe).
it was an RCA album released around 1969.Will check with my mate who has it.
Another album he has is The Banana Splits.With all the gang on the sleeve.I played it cool as I thought it was a wind up.
Until he played 2 tracks called 'soul'and the album title track,'doin'the banana split'.
2 Uptempo sides featuring the voices of
Carl Spencer,Jimmy Radcliffe&Ritchie Adams.(say no more).The album is on the UK Decca Label.
Say no more!!!!
mel.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.52) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 12:31 am:

ps
regards the Jackie Ross record,
with you all the way mate.
Outstanding,as we all expect from the talented Lady.
mel.

By acooolcat (61.65.37.3) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 06:08 am:

Mel - thanks for the emails - I can't get your email address to work though.
Graham

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 06:58 am:

The Banana Splits??!

As in the kids programme?? My god- I need to hear that album!

...so who was Jimmy Radcliffe?? The elephant, gorilla, the dog...?? (!)

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.98) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 07:47 am:

Graham,
Once again I am having problems with my mail.
I can send but cant recieve any at the moment.
Notice the difference all around regards the 2 Champion original issues to the blue bootleg.
Yan,
Yes as in the kids programme.
Totally blew me away as I read the sleeve notes and all the class musicians involved.
You just know it aint Fleagel and his boys as soon as you hear the vocals and intro blast in.
Later buddy.
Mel

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 07:55 am:

Mel- It's funny I was just posting about New York songwriters/producers Gary Knight and Gene Allan on the Bobby Eli thread, and I just remembered hearing that one of them ended up writing music for The Archies' LPs!! (and apparently one of them is now a barber??- this last fact is pure rumour so don't hold me accountable for it!)

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 01:01 pm:

Yeah, I just checked it up and it was Gene Allan who wrote material for The Archies; along with Ritchie Adams actually- an Archie and a Banana Split! Ron Dante, the vocalist for the Archies has quiet a fan base these days. Apparently Ron and Gene wrote a musical together based on Herman Melville's "Billy Budd"??! That would have been something to see.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 02:06 pm:

Yan,

Re the Fame tracks on that "Get Involved" comp.
- my guess is that Capitol still hold copies of
the tapes but nobody checked to see if Capitol
still held the rights to issue the tracks.

Re the Banana Splits - at least one of the tracks
on the album is written by Barry White.

There's a Banana Splits web-site which has a lot of info. on the album - I don't have a note of
the URL but a google.com search for "Banana Splits" should get you there

That RCA album with the Jimmy Radcliffe track is
probably "Just A Little Bit of Soul" or maybe
"Funky Bottom Congregation" - they were both
budget price comps. issued around '69 - '70.

Jimmy was also involved in the Globetrotters'
album on Kirshner.

By BCNYC (64.12.101.152) on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 03:41 pm:

Regarding Rick Hall and Fame: did anyone buy the Candi Staton comp CD on the purportedly French "Famous Sounds" label, and did it sound okay? I am assuming it is from vinyl and unauthorized.

By Sharon Davis (195.93.50.9) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 05:14 am:

A little late in catching up with this site, I'm afraid. However, I'm in touch with Gloria Jones and I know she'd be overwhelmed to read about so much interest in her work. Glo and I have been friends for years, and we spent a great deal of time together when Marc was alive. The terrible trio!! I'll contact Glo and tell her about the forum. On her behalf, let me thank you muchly for all your interest and kind words. Believe she's due in the UK this year sometime. Sharon Davis

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:51 am:

Hi Sharon,

Nice to see you on board - it would be great if
you get get Gloria to visit SD and I hope to see
you visit more often. Your Motown column in
Blues & Soul was just about the only reason I
kept buying the mag. in the eighties.

By Michael/Cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:32 am:

Sharon:

I started this thread because of having listened to the 70's Supremes Anthology and realizing what wonderful work Pam Sawyer/Gloria Jones had done on the unreleased work on the Supremes (Promises Kept). It would be interesting to know what it was like to be one of the few female writer/producer teams in the industry at that time and also working at Motown. Gloria should know that there are people who appreciate the work she did.

I did not realize you wrote the column for Blues & Soul, mazel tov to you my dear.

By Sharon Davis (195.93.66.9) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

Thank you for the above messages; am humbly delighted to be with you. Although Gloria's life has taken a different turn now, she's extremely proud of her past work. Her modesty remains still. I don't know if I can persuade her to join us here, but she certainly knows of the forum's existence. I'll wait a while longer before contacting her again. In the words of my mentor, Dave Godin, keep the faith...Sharon Davis

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 12:24 pm:

Sharon:
I'm a colleague of David Nathan and a admirer of your work along with his & Godin.
Keep up the fine articles.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Heikki (62.71.79.239) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

Hi Sharon!
I've been a subscriber to Blues & Soul since the turn of the 60s/70s, but gave it up a few years ago - I guess, you know why.
I really admired your articles and am anxiously waiting for the book.
Best regards
Heikki

By SharonDavis (195.93.50.9) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 01:11 pm:

Thanks Kevgo and Heikki for your words. I'm often asked why the Motown column had to go. Well, there were many reasons but I think the main one was I personally couldn't take it any further. Motown was in the throes of changing beyond recognition, artists were becoming fed up with the way they were treated and other political antics went on backstage, which I soon got tired of. Also other record companies were complaining to B&S that Motown was getting preferential treatment - which of course it was! I didn't want to give up the column and the information it provided regularly, but I'm glad we bowed out on a high. It's thanks to readers like yourselves that Motown Trackin was such a success - and believe me it was, being the top read pages in B&S. That's all down to you guys....I regret I can't join this thread as often as I'd like but I do look in weekly. Your interest in things Motown makes people like myself feel warm inside. Sharon Davis

By Mark Speck (65.57.19.241) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 11:51 pm:

Just found out that Pam Sawyer and Lori Burton wrote another big-money Northern rarity: "I'm Not Mad Anymore", the debut single for Barbara Acklin on the Special Agent label.

Best,

Mark