By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 04:11 pm:

Once again I'm requesting assistance for info on an awesome 45 that I bought last week in a collection (of about 1,000 45s). This is Timmy Shaw on the Reel label out of Detroit. The side shown "Throw it Out Your Mind" is a powerful transitional soul ballad with a female (or perhaps mixed) uncredited back-up group. The flip "A Letter From My Baby" is uptempo and typical of the sounds of the early to mid 60s. What I am looking for is: (1) any info on this artist; (2) any more info on this label; (3) any info on uncredited back-up group; (4) year of release. You'll see also writers credits to J. Matthews, also production by Matthews & Bennett. Is the "J Matthews" Johnnie Mae Matthews? (Graham??????????)



Thanks in advance for any help!

Nikki
http://www.harmonytrain.com

By MickD (217.44.216.46) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 04:42 pm:

nikki,
I believe Reel records was co-owned by Johnnie Mae, Timmy Shaw also did a duet with Johhnie Mae on Reel called "I don't want your loving". I also believe there was a female group signed to the label called the Ambassadors (these might be your backing singers, just a wild guess)- I have been told that Johnnie Mae was a member of the Ambassadors but I can't say whether or not that is fact or hearsay.

I hope this of some help

regards

MickD

By Sly fan (67.115.75.96) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 05:08 pm:

The Ambassadors as in "I Got A Love", w/Karl Chambers on drums?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 05:14 pm:

OMG Nikki - I have that on the Reel black label. I have played it until the grooves are begging for mercy. All I hear now are scratches. I've got to have a copy of that.

I believe Graham has more information on Timmy Shaw.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 05:24 pm:

I have emailed you a copy of the black label. As you can see, even the label wants to retire. (LOL)

By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 06:05 pm:

Hiya Sis,

I responded to your email before I came back here and saw your posts! Mine shown IS the black label! Sorry for the poor image color (my scanner is in need of an overhaul)! Wish I had more than one, but sorry to say I don't

Yes, I'm hoping Graham can come up with some more info.

MickD thanx also for your help!

In harmony,

Nikki

By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 06:08 pm:

Nikki, that Timmy Shaw record is great deep soul. It was issued nationally on Jamie. There must be a dozen or more records on Reel, including several by label-owner Johnnie Mae (including the brilliant My Little Angel, which saw national release on Sue). The label was active for maybe 10 years or so, beggining around 1961, and featured many different designs--black and silver, red and black with a variety of typefaces, orange and yellow... Louis Curry's Northern classic, You're Just Plain Nice is on Reel. Great label.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 10:21 pm:

Hi Nikki
You probably know that the late Timmy Shaw is best known for his "Gonna Send You Back To Georgia" that came out on Wand in '64. His real name is Jake Hammond and as you can see - he's one of the song writers on the Reel 45 you have.
The Ambassadors had a great double sided song on the Bon label that was later released on the Reel label, called "Power of Love." BTW - the lead singer was Ida Bennett, and Johnie Mae was not a member of the group.
There'll be a lot more info' about the Reel label, Timmy and Johnnie Mae included in the next Webisode here on soulfuldetroit. It should be online next month - I think.
Joe - The Louis Curry and The Mellow Decisions 45s are on a different Reel label - that one was owned by Fred Brown, not Johnnie Mae.
Slyfan - This is the only 45 I know of by the "Detroit" Ambasadors. I guess there were many different groups with that name: Very confusing!
All the best, Graham

By Sly fan (67.119.53.141) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

wow, Thanx for the info Coolcat.

By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:23 am:

Wow Graham - I knew I could count on your for all the details!! Thanx mucho to you, Joe, and Sis for the info! I've entered it into my record info files! By the way, Graham, I'm looking forward to reading your Johnnie Mae webisode on this site! Hurry hurry!!!

Nikki

By David Meikle (213.122.212.14) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 03:38 am:

Thanks to Graham....yet again.

Graham has provided me with some stunning images and final text. I am very excited about it, it will be one of our best webisodes.

I now need to put it together in our usual format AND after the final leg of Golden World which should be up by next week.

David

By David Meikle (213.122.212.14) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 03:42 am:

Courtesy of Dave Flynn's excellent web site
http://www.capitolsoulclub.homestead.com/DetroitLabelsREEL.html

By Ian W (194.75.128.2) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 08:14 am:

Did a Google search for Timmy Shaw and Reel and came up with:

Deep Soul Review

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 01:09 pm:

Timmy Shaw also made an excellent version of that unreleased Lupine track by Charles Amos on Reel "Thunder In My Heart". That was also released on Bon Records. As at least two of my Johnnie Mae Matthews 45´s on Reel share the same design as some of the 45`s on Jackpot (for example Clara Hardy "Jealous/Touch Of Love") I would not surprised there was a connection them, Graham ? I also have a nice follow up by Timmy Shaw of his "Gonna Send You Back" on wand, exact title escapes me at the moment. There is also a version by James Carr on Gold Wax.

By Joe Moorehouse (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 01:32 pm:

Graham, thanks for that info about Reel being two different labels--I had no idea.

Throw It Out Your Mind must have gotten a fair amount of attention locally, because my copies of it are a different pressing from the one scanned above (very similar, but different typeface), and it seems to turn up with some regularity--almost always played to death, though.

I agree with John Ridley (whose deep page is terrific and worth a long look) that Thunder in My Heart is a great song--not so easy to find, though.

Of course, Timmie Shaw also had a record on Audrey (another Johnnie Mae label) and supposedly on Premium Stuff, though I've never seen that one. His second Wand release was There Goes My Baby b/w If I Catch You. And his name appears on a lot of other early Johnnie Mae productions.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:13 pm:

Mark - I think it was the pressing plant that made up the "design" of the label, which was a standard typeface that they seemed to like. I think that some of those early Johnnie Mae ones were pressed up in Chicago.
I'm not aware of any connection with the Jackpot label/studio which was based on Ryan Road in Detroit.
Joe - I've also seen two different pressings on Reel for Johnnie Mae's "My Litle Angel." The typface is slightly different.
Both sides of the Timmy's Bon 45 are great - the other side being "No More."
Cheers, Graham

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.108) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:40 pm:

Graham,
is this the same Timmy Shaw that recorded 'cant we make this love last'with Little Melvin on Premium Stuff?
Also there was the Jamie recording of 'a letter from my baby'by Timmy Shaw.
And as you mentioned the superb 'No more' on Bow.
mel.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.49) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 09:00 am:

The Ambassadors that I know of on Reel(no.117?)recorded 'Power of Love/I wonder why'.
But I know of 5 different Ambassadors,
I think they are all different,can anyone let me know if these 5 Labels with Ambassadors groups on them are all different or not please.
Ambassadors on-Reel Records(no.117).
Timely Records(no.1001).
Sound Stage Seven Records(no's2588,2607).
Also on Arctic Records(no's147,150,153,156)
and on Atlantic Records(no's2442,2491,2547)
Many thanks for any help.
Mel.

By acooolcat (61.30.125.42) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 10:14 am:

Mel,
Yes it's the same Timmy singing on the 45s you mention. BTW, His great double-sider is on is Bon - not Bow.
I'm sorry I can't answer your Ambassadors question, I've got no idea who was in the groups apart from on the Bon/Reel 45.
Cheers,
Graham

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:02 pm:

Mel,

The Amabassadors on Timely are a fifties group
- presumably from the New York area as Timely
was an NY label.

The Sound Stage 7 group are probably from one
of the southern states as SS7 was based in
Nashville. Their lead singer was Bobby Ledford
- one of the SS7 singles is credited to Bobby
Ledford and the Soul Ambassadors probably to
avoid confusion with the Philly group who had
hits on Arctic around the same time ( 69 - 70)

The Arctic group were from Philly but you probably knew that anyway - I'm not certain about
the group on Atlantic - I think they're the same
as on Arctic but they did some work with Popcorn
Wylie so they may have done some recording in
Detroit - I'll check later but I seem to remember
they started out working with Frank Virtue's
production company in Philly before joining
Arctic - maybe Bobby Eli can shed some light on this.

There's also a group called the Ambassadors on
Capitol's Uptown label which might be the Philly
group - I'll check my notes later.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (195.219.7.82) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:28 pm:

Graham,Davie,
many thanks,
I Knew about the southern SS7 Label,as I have quite a few on the label,
Didnt know a thing about the Timely Label.
The thing that threw me and had me ask the question is because I have seen all the records mentioned to you,all in the same file and all down as The Ambassadors.
I forgot about the Soul Ambassadors and will have some relevent infoon them as I once had a mate with there stuff.
I have a scan of The Ambassadors on the De Brossard record Label(no.827D5831)and is called 'do you ever think about me/I Love you'.
It is out of Cleveland,Ohio.
And while were at it,
musnt forget the stormer on Pee Vee Records titled 'too much of a good thing/whole lotta soul(no.1000).Also by The Ambassadors.
Many thanks to you both for your time.
Mel.

By acooolcat (61.222.101.132) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 08:48 am:

Davie and Mel
I've found out that The (Detroit) Ambassadors made a record on the "J R Records Corporation" label.

Label # 5004
It's A Lonely Town (ZTSC 94452) Dale Warren aranged this side.
You Can't (ZTSC ?)

The scanned 45 is on ebay at the moment.
Cheers, Graham

By Eli (151.197.5.82) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 09:17 am:

Any info on Three G's records??

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 03:25 pm:

Bobby,

I'll check my database - offhand I think there's
a single by the Superlatives on Three G's.

Graham,

I knew it existed but had only the title / number
- the matrix number will help date it - looks as
if it's from 1964 but I'll see if I can narrow it down.

Another unrelated Ambassadors single is one on Dot
- apparently a UK recording as it's produced by
Joe Meek but I can't find an equivalent UK issue
- maybe one of those odd things that was only
issued in the US.

By LG Nilsson (213.89.30.74) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 04:04 pm:

Bobby,

Is this what you are asking for?



Lars

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 10:19 pm:

I've had an email (from Bosko) with details of another Detroit Ambassdors' 45.
Here goes:
Label - AIR # 5065
Song Titles - Keep On Trying / Swich
Date - 1956

Does anyone have any more info' about this recording?

Cheers, Graham

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 05:15 am:

PS; I think the above JR label was owned by Joe Revaz.
Graham

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.44) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 07:29 pm:

Graham,
heres another.
Ambassadors
'Too young for me'
on the Fleet Record Label.
Anyone know this?
mel.

By Marc Forrest (145.243.194.67) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 08:39 am:

Of course Mel, but that is a totally different group, consisting of white high school boys. same group as on Pee Vee btw. The leadsinger wrote that beutiful (and rare) 45 based on a true story. He later on married that "too young" lady.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.12) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 10:24 am:

Marc,
many thanks for that mate,
if I come across any more Ambassadors
then I am out of here.
MEL.

By Kegtapper (65.58.39.30) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 09:09 pm:

NIKKI ON STRANGE-HARD TO FIND. Did you find "Ninety and Half Won't Do" Wright Special or anything on DIVINITY, (gospel label) finding that label is burning my brain. Digging in old juke boxes with no luck.

Is Grahams great collection shown online- All I am trying to do is find it- So that I don't have to go to Detroit to dig through the record stores.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 12:25 am:

Kegtapper - I wouldn't call my collection "great" as I don't have that many 45s. And it's not online - by which I guess you mean that I've scanned all the labels for a Website. Digging around for 45s is half the fun of collecting - keep on diggin' - it's more fun than ebay.
Cheers, Graham

By Joe Moorehouse (205.188.209.38) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 12:47 am:

Kegtapper, contact me at jmoorehous@aol.com if you like--I've got a couple of Divinity 45s that I'd be willing to trade.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 12:56 am:

Kegtapper - you should check out Lars' site for label scans, and also Dave Flynns' and another called something like... Anorak 45s.
Graham

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 05:41 am:

Lars
http://members.chello.se/seabear/

Benji
http://labelscans.anorakrecords.de/

By LG Nilsson (213.89.29.157) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 03:04 pm:

Hi guyz & girlz,

Just found out that I can deliver some scans for you considering records that have been discussed on this thread.

First the Timmy Shaw Wand release:



Then his Big Hit release with Chuck Holiday:



Premium Stuff 45 with Little Melvin (Who's he??):



Audrey 45 with backing group "The Sternphones":



His Bon release:



The Reel duet with J M Matthews:



... and finally a great B-side by the Ambassadors. A-side is "We Got Love".



This is a single not to be missed!

Lars

By LG Nilsson (213.89.29.157) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 03:18 pm:

Hi guyz & girlz,

Just found out that I can deliver some scans for you considering records that have been discussed on this thread.

First the Timmy Shaw Wand release:



Then his Big Hit release with Chuck Holiday:



Premium Stuff 45 with Little Melvin (Who's he??):



Audrey 45 with backing group "The Sternphones":



His Bon release:



The Reel duet with J M Matthews:



... and finally a great B-side by the Ambassadors. A-side is "We Got Love".



This is a single not to be missed!

Lars

By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 04:34 pm:

Lars,

What awesome labels and images! Thanx for posting them. I'm drooling!!! I'll be sure to look for these on my next record hunt! Any of these available on CDs? If so, which CDs?

Thanx again!

Nikki
http://www.harmonytrain.com

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 04:43 pm:

Lars,

Who's LIttle Melvin ? - maybe Melvin Walton
- the "M Walton" in the writer credits.

I seem to recall a Detroit blues singer called
something like Daddy Walton - maybe there's a connection - then again maybe there isn't : -)

By Joe Moorehouse (152.163.188.68) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 04:56 pm:

Good thought, Davie, especially since Big Daddy Walton recorded for Johnnie Mae's Big Hit label. "Big Daddy" and "Little Melvin." Father and son, maybe? When I dig out my Big Hit record I'll check the credits.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

Lars - Great scans, thanks for posting them. The Walton family formed a seven piece band; you probably have one of their 45s on Big Hit. The father was called "Little Daddy."
Graham

By recordboyusa (67.34.73.196) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 01:08 am:

The Air label was out of Miami, although they had releases by acts from all over the place. Hasil Adkins' very first record came out on Air. It was a label that pressed up vanity releases, including lots of song poems.

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By LG Nilsson (212.247.9.242) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:06 am:

Anyone here know if the "B. Strong" on the Reel scan above is Barrett Strong?

Lars

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:28 am:

Lars - with the label crediting Motown's Jobete Publishing it must be Barrett Strong, although I can't trace it on the BMI Website. Strange!
I think the Atlantic 45 by The Ambassadors is a from the Philly group. Anyone know for sure?
Graham

By Joe Moorehouse (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 07:41 am:

acoolcat is right as usual--Daddy Walton was "Little" not "Big." Thanks for the correction, Graham.

By LG Nilsson (213.89.29.157) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:05 pm:

Hi folkz again... and thanks for all info...

You'll never know what to find in your collection if you dig deep enough...



This is a pure blues record by this "little" family....

Lars

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

Graham,

My instincts tell me that the Atlantic single is
by the Philly group - there were three Ambassadors singles on Atlantic.

2442 (9/67)
I've got to find happiness (Speller, Todd)
I'm so proud of my baby (Speller, Todd)

2491 (3/68)
Good love gone bad (Bishop, Gamble)
I've got to find happiness (Speller, Todd)

2547 (8/68)
Never get tired of loving you (Wylie, Hester)
I've got love (Ambassadors)

The "Todd" in the writer credits is co-lead singer
Bobby Todd who was with the group on Arctic so I
think we safely assume that the Ambassadors on
Arctic are the same as on Atlantic.

Either Atlantic sent the group to Detroit to
record "Never Get Tired .." or Mike Terry went to
Philadelphia to work on the session.

DVDMike - if you have the Michael Ruppli Atlantic books coul dyou have a look and see if he gives any details ?