By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 11:07 am:

Sue....
.....I realise this is not germaine (I apologise), but I didn't want to bother you at work.
Do you know anything about a reserection of CREEM Magazine? My brother apparently knows one of the principles. www.creemmedia.com
If you don't want to bother the thread but have any information, i'm at DMS4@charter.net

Thank you

By john dixon (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 04:33 pm:

doug, you're king 'o' the links today. I had fun reminiscing at the creemmedia site. Would have enjoyed seeing more editorial content in their archives but, since they've just got the site up, hopefully they will add more. Their infamous, sometimes skewering Creem Profiles are up. Even ordered a new boy howdy t-shirt to replace the one I wore out back in 1982!

By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:01 am:

John...
....as I understand it, they want to start publishing this summer sometime, although they're apparently looking for finantial backing. Gordon tells me that they want to stay true to the original "concept" of the mag, although I'm not sure if you could pull off a '70's style zine in 2003. They do have artists lined up for CreemDreams and Creem Profiles. Should be interesting to see what developes.
The new company bought the whole sheband, archives and the whole bit.

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 12:40 pm:

Doug and others,
I don't post here anymore so you'll have to email me privately if you have questions for me.

Ralph can tell you why.

By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 12:58 pm:

Sue....
....sorry to hear that. I hope I didn't say or do anything that upset you or caused you to not post.

doug

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 01:31 pm:

No Doug, not you at all.

By TonyRussi (68.18.230.25) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 01:38 pm:

Dear Sue, You will be missed.I hope you will be at the event in May as I was really looking forward to meeting you & getting you to autograph my "Women of Motown"book, which is one of the best. Health & Happiness always,

By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 02:01 pm:

...good. I feel a little better.
We've disagreed at times, but those discussions have help further my musical education, one I hope never stops. May the road you always travel always be a good one.
Thank you.
doug

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 02:03 pm:

Sue;
I'm bummed - if anyone has been a more active ambassador for the Funk Bros and other artists discussed here than you have , I don't know who it would be. I've always appreciated what you've done at The News as far as keeping these artists' names in the public eye and spreading the word as often as possible about classic Detroit music ; I've also looked forward to your posts ( I couldn't have gotten through the 'Rascals/Blue Eyed Soul' threads without you.) I'm not sure what happened here - I hope this is a temporary situation - but if not , at least I've got 'the News' , "Women of Motown" and a buncha old 'Creems' in my archives. Thanks

steve Kilpatrick

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

Sue,
I know you're really going to be pissed when you read this but....QUIT ACTING LIKE A DRAMA QUEEN AND DROP IT ALL!!! I'm telling nohing. What went on between us stays between us. Now...you can live with that and resume your position here or you can run off wth your nose out of joint. Your choice. I still maintain that nobody leaves this forum. It's my Italian thing. Talk to Paulie 3 Shoes about it. I don't let go of people as easy as you're willing to bolt.

By john c (12.2.233.107) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 02:59 pm:

Sue,

I miss you.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:34 pm:

Well, Ralph hold on to her ....
She is a valued member here on the forum with a lot of knowledge and love for people and music..
I will certainly miss her here...She makes good sense 99.9% of the time and always chimes in with logic...I certainly don't want to see her leave us.

Vickie

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:37 pm:

(((SUE)))

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:41 pm:

Well, Ralph,

That kind of name-calling is one of the problems.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:45 pm:

Yeah, Ralph? I'm guessing it was a term of endearment.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:49 pm:

You just can't call us Drama Queens, and expect us to melt in your arms. :o(

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:55 pm:

Sue,
You ASKED for it. And in all honesty I'm calling a spade a spade here. Excuse me for saying, but you and Fred were WAY out of line coming at me the way you guys did. All this on top of a time I thought I would be burying my father in the next few days. And excuse me for saying so again, but I'm not all that fond of lawyers. ( Sorry Fred ). I don't care if they represent Mother Theresa . And when I start getting ordered on how to do my job I get testy. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you DON"T know an entire story. Trust me on this Sue, I'm light years ahead of you when it comes to this business, so you, or most anybody, don't want to do a one on one with me. My offer still stands. As you can see, you're popular on the forum and I would like to see you stay, but I'm not kissing any ass to appease what I perceive as a wounded ego. Since I have been moderating this forum I have received many suggestions on certain issues. When reasonable I have tried to make accomodations. I will ALWAYS do this, but you better know how to deal with me.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:58 pm:

Well Sis, now you know why STUBASS has me beat solid.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:02 pm:

I don't know Stubass can be pretty rough.

I don't want to know what went on behind closed doors. That's between you and Sue. I just know I miss my friend.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:05 pm:

Well I've had my say Sis. I'm ready to move on. I meant it when I said I don't like to see anyone leave this place. It is a family to me and losing someone is a loss to the family as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think there are any perfect families out there, so I think that makes us rather normal.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:17 pm:

You are right. I'm from a big family, and believe me, we have our squabbles, knock down and drag out fights. It hurts, and takes awhile to heal.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:26 pm:

Kind of goes with the territory huh Sis? Well Sue and I just exchanged a couple of e-mails. I hope we have resolved our little differences. In the scope of things this doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I said it before but I will repeat it one more time. I think Sue Whithall is an extremely talented writer. I have appreciated her insights on this forum. I do not want to see Sue leave.
Let's get back to family business.

By Fred (205.188.209.38) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 05:29 pm:

I hate to re-open Ralph's neatly tied package, but I came late to this party and found myself referred to.

Ralph, it is alright to dislike lawyers. I have my own prejudice; I can't abide fools.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 05:41 pm:

Fred,
Touche pal, touche. you made me laugh on that one. I guess I have been somewhat of a fool dealing with this subject. Tell you what...you take good care of the Funks and I'll keep me opinions to myself. Deal?

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 06:33 pm:

Ralph,

In my family, we pretty much don't call each other names. If somebody loses control and says something regrettable, we apologize.

By stephanie (64.63.221.79) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 06:55 pm:

Thanks for coming back Sue this board is nothing compared to the children I have on my Yahoo board and have to babysit. People act like adults here.
Thanks for coming back. NOW COME BACK. I studied journalism and never pursued it like you did so Im jealous of you. I live in MD and read your articles. Yes Im filling your ego NOW STAY..
Stephanie

By john dixon (152.163.188.68) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

Sue, I hope you don't follow through and leave this forum; you are really loved and respected here. Your posts are filled with such wisdom, humor, and levity. Don't know how this all got started but I sensed you were really upset about some comments on the Jackie Wilson thread. Whatever the problem, I sincerely hope that you and Ralph can patch things up and you will continue to shine brightly with your posts that we all look forward to reading.

By Sue (152.163.188.68) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 07:53 pm:

Thanks Steph,
This board has gotten a lot weirder, very quickly. Just look at the Mary Wilson trashing going on, on that thread. Now that "cleoharvey" isn't posting anymore, one of Mary's prime defendants is gone, and it's too bad.

John -- We can and do disagree on this Forum, as we did on the Jackie Wilson thread, but until now I've felt it could be done in a civil way. I don't feel Ralph's remarks to me on the Forum or on email have been civil.

Others apparently asked him to shut that thread down. I didn't -- I asked that he not encourage further trashing of Joyce Moore's name. But for some reason he focuses his anger about that thread, toward me. Fred insults him outright, and he thinks that's funny! Go figure.

By SteveS (64.12.97.7) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

Ralph,

Could you explain your previous post? Were you just making a general comment about the music business, or were you saying you knew the Jackie Wilson backstory better than Sue?

I really don't know the story very well at all, and the thread is gone so we can't go back through it and reconstuct what happened. However, my recollection of it is that Sue warned, early on, that the thread was heading to a bad place, you basically told her to chill out, and then it went directly down the toilet, as she predicted it would. I don't recall that she asked you to shut it down.

You're making it sound like you're protecting the journalistic integrity of the New York Times, when in fact, on several occasions you've acted to prevent dredging up unfair or unsubstantiated stories (example: you deleted a mere question about Ed Wingate's connections, as well as comments about Dennis Coffey). Sue didn't ask you to delete anything, just not to encourage dredging up what everyone agrees is a sad affair. I can understand that she feels slighted, as she was treated like a child, and not the professional that she is.

Sue is a cornerstone of this community, and her presence will be sorely missed by all. I don't think that telling her what amounts to "you'll come groveling back, they all do" is the way to make things right. I hope you'll consider an alternate strategy.

SteveS

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:32 pm:

Steve,
Thanks for the reasonable insights. In answer to your question..no I don't have inside information on the Jackie Wilson situation. I was speaking in generalities. In all honesty, this was a dead issue ( or so I thought ) And I feel Sue baited me with the above post where she says something abot asking Ralph about it. This did lead to several e-mails between us and I tried to make my point clear that I valued her presence on the forum and even posted that in an above thread. But no one seems to want to let this go away. Yes other threads have been deleted in the past. And the reasons were valid. I wasn't going to delete this one until Kevin Goens was allowed to respond. What could have turned into a reasonable debate became totally out of hand. Maybe Sue didn't ask me to delete the thread initially, but she was right along side Fred who was making his feelings quite clear to me. And speaking of Fred...What did Sue expect me to do when he made reference that I was a fool. By this time it was turnng into a comedy and I wasn't going to become trapped into some name calling game so I just laughed about. Hell, Fred can call me whatever he likes as well as Sue. I really couldn't care less. Maybe all these years in this crazy busness has given me the hide of a Buffalo. Big deal!
As far as Cleoharvey, it was news to me that there was some sort of problem about an e-mail he received and he would no longer be posting. If this is in fact the case, I want to hear from him personally to see what I can do. I was also told that Alan Slutsky no longer posts because of the sound quality debate regarding the SITSOM CD a while back. Again, I never heard from Alan about any residual probem and my brief phone meeting with him was nothing short of delightful, so again, if there is a problem here I would hope that Alan would contact me directly.

Again I can only say that I try as hard as I can to keep it fair for everyone. I also realze how vast the forum has gotten in the period of a year, so we are a large group with many opinions and these things will crop up from time to time. So..once and for all can we please let this drop. Sue, if I hurt your feelings I apologize. I only ask that when future issues arise ( and I'm sure this will happen from time to time ) you ( or Fred...or who ever ) contact me with a slightly different approach. I said that I have accomodated people in the past and I have. Sorry for the overly long post. I hope this is now settled.

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:57 pm:

Thank you Ralph

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 10:58 pm:

You're most welcome Sue.

By The kids (205.188.209.38) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 11:03 pm:

YIPPY!!!

((((((RALPH)))))))

&
((((((((((SUE))))))))))


the little ones

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 11:49 pm:

Hahaha.

Doug and John D -- About that Creem online site.

As MC5rules well knows, I'm not too happy about it, neither is Dave Marsh or Jaan Uhelszki. The guy who runs it was a freelance photog at the magazine, not a staffer or in any way part of the creative process. He also hasn't paid any of us for the re-use of our stories. As any of you know who know publishing law, as fulltime Creem staffers, our work belonged to the company. But is it ethical or moral to re-use our stuff?

I didn't think I'd mind until I peeked, and saw several Boy Howdy! Profiles I wrote posted on his site. I remembered and recognized each word, each joke ...It just infuriated me. I knew then, a bit, how musicians feel when they see their work used and reused, with no payment coming.

I wrote that stuff for Barry Kramer, for Creem at the time, and was paid a weekly wage. That was the deal. I don't feel that anyone else has the right to profit from it without re-entering into some arrangement with me and the other writers. Why not start their own magazine? Why ride on what others have done?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 11:56 pm:

The way they have those archived magazines set up is really neat. I wish Jet Magazine would have such a set up.

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 12:01 am:

Yeah it's cool for readers. For writers, a different story.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 12:05 am:

Of course you know I don't read. I just look at the pictures. :o) Well, I do read your articles. I have to if I want to keep up on what's happening.

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 04:38 am:

Susan,
Well... as a former Disc Jockey, I'm gonna send this one out especially for you-- as this one 'little' song comes to mind,


"Welcome Back"
Your dreams were your ticket out,
"Welcome Back"
To the same old place you laughed about.

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

Who'd have thought they lead 'ya (Who'd had thought they'd lead 'ya)
Right here where WE NEED 'YA (Right here where WE NEED 'YA)
Yeah we tease (her) alot cause (she) got us on the spot, "Welcome Back",
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.


Susan,
...more than you would ever care to know, we admire your dedication, your tenacity, your inspiration, your enlightenment, the love you've shared-- you've given us.

"Welcome Back"
Jim Feliciano, Jr.

By Sue (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 09:19 am:

Jim,
I think that needs to be sung by SCTV's Sammy Maudlin!