By nuguy (24.195.201.2) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 11:53 pm:

Just came across this website. In a word, AWESOME!!! You folks are definitely about keeping the soul alive!! I read somewhere that "My Cherie Amour" was recorded two years before it was released, and then it was a B side. Is that true? And what other hits at Motown were like this? Thanks and keep the soul alive!!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.9) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:42 am:

Probably the best example is Marvin's "What's Going On". Now acknowledged as an all-time classic in every sense, but first greeted with a thumbs-down when Marvin presented it to the company.

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 08:35 am:

WELCOME NUGUY,JIMMY MACK WAS RECORDED IN 64 BUT NOT RELEASED UNTIL 67 SAME THING WITH TEARS OF A CLOWN RECORDED IN 67 RELEASED IN 70.IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT SOUL,R&B OR MUSIC IN GENERAL,SOMEONE ON THIS SITE WILL HAVE THE ANSWERS.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:06 am:

'Grapvine' was in the can for almost 2 years before it went on to become of motown's best sellers of all time.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:08 am:

Gordy sat on Marvin Gaye's "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" for two years (1966-68) before Norman Whitfield convinced BG to make the song an album cut on Marvin's "In The Groove." Weeks later radio jocks pressured Motown to release it as a single when the public kept requesting it.

After "Grapevine" went to number one, the "In The Groove" album was retitled "I Heard It Through The Grapevine."

Kevin Goins - KevGo

(PS - this isn't the first time BG & Whitfield had their go-arounds; Gordy sat on the Tempts "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" in favor of Smokey's "Get Ready" - when the latter barely charted the pop chart's Top 30, he released "Ain't Too Proud..." which came thisclose to the pop's Top Ten)

By douglasm (68.113.15.28) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:11 am:

I remember hearing basically the same thing about "Tears Of A Clown". True?

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:19 am:

"Tears Of A Clown" was an album track from Smokey & the Miracles "Make It Happen" LP (1967).

In 1970, the Tamla-Motown label released "Tears" in the UK where it later became a top seller throughout Europe. As a result, Smokey, the Miracles and the Funks went back into the studio and overdubbed new vocals and a drum track to the original multi-track** for the US single. Released that year, "Tears" became the Smokey & the Miracles first #1 pop hit.

** - If you have both the original pressing of the "Make It Happen" LP and the single of "Tears" from 1970, you'll hear the difference.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By John Lester (81.132.25.69) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:06 pm:

What a shame that this thread was not up when Sharon Davis posted recently.........do you recall the story about an English person saying how much they thought Tears Of A Clown needed to be a 45!

Well Sharon knows a bit more than most people about that story!!

By john c (12.2.233.107) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

I read somewhere that the Miracles UK fan club chose "Tears" as the UK single.

By nuguy (24.195.201.2) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 12:04 am:

Thanks guys, this is news to me. It amazes me how deep Motown was in musical talent. I'll pop in from time to time with any additonal questions about Motown, R&B or Soul. Take care guys!

By John Lester (213.123.148.217) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 05:04 am:

Johnc...that is not strictly correct.......Sharon could tell the true story.

I would add that The Miracles didn't have a specific fan club in those days..if you mean Motown AD Adstra, then there is an element of truth in it as Sharon was involved in that set up. Let us hope Sharon comes on here and tells us a bit more.

By Edgar (200.46.134.53) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 08:13 am:

Another example is the Syreeta-Billy Preston duet "With You I'm Born Again". The story is a bit like what happened with Diana Ross' "I'm Still Waiting". Both did very well in the UK, but when released as singles in the US only "WYIBA" became also a hit.

By John Lester (213.123.148.217) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 10:09 am:

Edgar

There are lots of others.....Marv Johnson's I'll Pick A Rose For My Rose....the Elgins "Heaven Must Have Sent You"....Behind a Painted Smile - Isley Brothers...It Should Have Been me - Yvonne Fair...Third Finger Left Hand - Martha.

On the other hand, What's Going On by Marvin flopped in the UK at the time - yet now it's played often on the radio

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 11:19 am:

Baby I'm For Real by The Originals was an album track (barely) when Motown was pushing Green Grow The Lilacs. Radio found the ballad and jumped on it in the U.S.

Stevie Wonder did not want Motown to issue Superstition as a single, since he'd promised it to Jeff Beck. BG prevailed there.

Further back, Motown was ready to drop Stevie until they gave Sylvia Moy a shot to do something, anything, and she delivered Uptight (Eerything's Alright).

Most of us know The Marvelettes rejected Where Did Our Love Go.

Ain't Too Proud To Beg by the Temptations was rejected by Motown's QC department as a favor to Smokey, so he could get the release on Get Ready.

All I can think of at the moment.

By john dixon (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 11:21 am:

John Lester, that is a real shock. In Britain, where Motown was, some would argue, more fully appreciated more at home, "What's Going On" was a flop? How could that happen/what do you attribute that to? I always thought that song had struck an international chord...

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

John L - I hope Sharon does drop in! I have one of her books. I would love to meet her.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

Another classic that would probably have stayed in the can if Smokey hadn't pushed is the Marvelettes' "The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game". The powers that were thought it was "too
jazzy" for the Marvelettes

By Scratcher (65.132.77.96) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 05:25 pm:

The Originals' "Baby I'm For Real" was a done deal long before Motown relented and released it.

By HW (68.37.220.95) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 07:09 am:

sorry, don't understand - if it was a done deal, why would Motown have to 'relent'?

By John Lester (213.123.143.212) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 07:51 am:

Hey.....can I mention that it was not only the Marvelettes that turned down "Where Did Our Love Go"

Bub bub sookie do wah......Cal remarks that it was too "hoity toity"........whatever that means.

I don't know why "What's Going On" was a flop in the UK. I bought it, so I absolve myself of all responsibility!! LOL! Mercy Mercy Me got more airplay but it still didn't hit.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.142) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:15 am:

HW, by all accounts "Baby I'm For Real" was recorded and ready-to-go long before Motown actually released it as single--this is what I meant by "done deal."

The Originals' Green Grow the Lilacs album came out July 1969 and went unnoticed until Motown released "Baby I'm For Real" from it August 1969; I have the original pressing on the album titled Green Grow the Lilacs. When "Baby...Real" hit new pressings were titled "Baby I'm For Real."

The facts are, Motown sat on the song for a long time (members of the Originals have said more than a year) especially when you considered the quality of the singles Motown released on the Originals before finally (relenting) doing so.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.142) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:18 am:

Gladys Horton once said the Marvelettes didn't really turn down "Where Did Our Love Go," they were given a choice between it and "Too Many Fish in the Sea" and chose the latter because the track was more slamming with the bongos and all.

By HW (68.37.220.95) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

Scratcher - that's why I am confused. "Baby I'm For Real" qualifies as "a Motown hit that almost didn't become a hit" because as you say it was only issued as a LP cut and was not considered for single release until it was forced from the album by radio.

By "done deal" I thought you meant it was a 'done deal' that it would be a hit - which is not the case.

Looks like we're saying the same thing, just phrasing it differently.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.18) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 04:40 pm:

HW: same thing, different wording.

I have to think about your statement that it was forced from the album by radio though. If that's the case then the Originals themselves lobbied some DJ to play the record cause nobody outside of Motown's inner circle and some Detroiters knew who the Originals were prior to "Baby I'm for Real." Their first three singles: "Goodnight Irene," "We Got a Way Out Love" and "Green Grown the Lilacs," all sunk without a trace.

I'm not doubting you just wondering what made a DJ listen to an album by a virtually unknown group in the first place? DJ's gets lots of albums and singles, what made this one so special? A $100 handshake? Surely not name recognition. I didn't know of the Originals or the album until "Baby I'm for Real" dropped. They were a better kept secret at Motown than the Andantes or the Funk Brothers.

HW, if Wand Records hadn't snatched "Come See About Me" from the Supremes' More Hits album and redid it on Nella Dodds do you think Motown would have released it as single or would it have been another great Motown track that shoulda, coulda, woulda but never got the chance?