By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:29 am:

Grover Mitchell "I'm still in love with you" Vee Jay. They don't come anymore soulful than this. Real downhome church style soul. I'm sure if you turned up the speakers loud enough the paint would start to peel off the walls.Let us hear about your favourite deep deep soul cuts.

By Eli (151.197.38.209) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:43 am:

Otis's These arms of mine, Thats how strong my love is, Ive been loving you too long.
James Carr.. Dark end of the street
Jackie Moore.. Precious, Precious

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:47 am:

Greatest love " The late Judy Clay.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:51 am:

Soul Children "If you move, I'll fall" I like the interplay of the male and female leads. I believe Don Davis had a hand in this gem.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.117) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:53 am:

Anything by Doris Duke.
mel.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:20 am:

'i've been loving you' Otis Redding

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:21 am:

Soul Clan "That's how I feel". Can you imagine the vibe in the studio when these soul giants met. Wow. Gives me the shivers.

By MotownForever (205.188.209.38) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Some that come to mind are "Let Me Down Easy" by Bettye Lavette; "Stay With Me" by Lorraine Ellison; "I've Been Loving You Too Long (To Stop Now)" by Otis Redding; That's How Strong My Love Is" by Candi Staton; and "The Sweeter He Is" by the Soul Children.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:37 am:

David Ruffin "Statue of a fool" Van McCoy penned and produced this gem. David does what he does best.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:42 am:

Yep - fine song, fine Van McCoy production - but written by Jan Crutchfield.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:53 am:

Bell Brothers "Pity me" Sureshot. this slab of southern soul is dripping with barbecue sauce. Can anyone demystify this group.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:12 pm:

Ritchie: We're both wrong. Mr. Ruffin is the writer. I looked at the album just now. All the more a testimony to the depth of David's soul.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

Temptations "Merry Christmas" 1980's version. Dennis Edwards really shows his strength.

By john dixon (205.188.209.38) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:50 pm:

all of the Otis cuts mentioned above plus "Pain In My Heart" and "Ol Man Trouble"
"True Love Travels On A Gravel Road" and "Take Time To Know Her"-Percy Sledge
"Crying In The Streets"- George Perkins & the Silver Stars
"Hard Luck Guy"-Eddie Hinton
"Separation Line"-Laura Lee
James Carr-besides the obligatory "Dark End..",also "Pouring Water On A Drowning Man" & "You've Got My Mind Messed Up"
"That Old Time Feeling"-Clarence Carter
"A Nickel and a Nail"-O.V.Wright
"Feel Like Going Home" and "Set Me Free"-Charlie Rich (blue-eyed Deep Soul)

By recordboyusa (67.34.73.196) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 01:02 pm:

The Bell Brothers were from Miami, FL!
Leroy and Alex.

They toured with the likes of The Drifters, Otis Redding, and Bobby Blue Bland.

Alex (Harcourt Alexander Hamilton Bell) died of a heart attack in January 1988 at the age of 45.

Jeff

P.S. I have tons of deep soul favourites but my two current big spins:

JESSE SLAUGHTER - How Does It Make You Feel (Les-Stan)
J.P. ROBINSON - How Much More Can She Stand (Atco)

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By Mark Speck (65.57.21.16) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

How 'bout the music from Quin Ivy's stable of artists? Not just Percy Sledge, but folks like Tony Borders, Bill Brandon, Don Varner, et al.

The Bell Brothers also had a great Northern track on Sure-Shot, "Tell Him No".

"How Much More Can She Stand"--is that the same song as the Conway Twitty song, Jeff?

Best,

Mark

By FAYETTE (205.188.209.38) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:48 pm:

SWEET BITTER LOVE-ARETHA FRANKLIN
I CAN'T SAY NO-NATALIE COLE
STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN-OJAYS
WHEN A MAN LOVES A WOMAN PERCY SLEDGE
BEFORE I LET GO-MAZE
HOUSE IS NOT A HOME-LUTHER VANDROSS
DID YOU EVER KNOW-PEABO BRYSON

By Eli (151.197.38.209) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:54 pm:

Warm and tender love.Percy Sledge
If loving you is wrong ..L. Ingram

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 03:14 pm:

Mmmm... after reading all this, I'm heading off now to Shreveport, Louisiana. (Well, on CD anyway!)

Let's hear it for Jewel/Paula....

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:08 pm:

OOps! the Temps. Xmas song should have been "Silent Night".

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:14 pm:

Margie Alexander " Keep on searching" -Future Stars. Clarence "Stroking" Carter waved his soul wand over this cut.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

Joyce Lawson 'Stop doggin' me" Mutt n Jeff. She puts the other versions of this song to shame.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:40 pm:

Terry Collins "The Show must go on" Kwanza. This eclipses all the other great slow Philly numbers. The total package is peerless. The fullblooded orchestral intro, great storyline, Terry's gritty chords, A certain Mr. Eli's magic.There is a touch of elegance when Carla, Evette & Barbara (I presume they were the background singers) sweetly refrain " ...and your little baby brother". Story is about this nightclub entertainer who wrote a letter to his daughter, Donna. Explaining to her why he couldn't make it home for her birthday because "The show must go on". Goosebump meter is stuck in red.

By steve w (152.163.188.68) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 05:37 pm:

"If he hadn't slipped up and got caught"-bobby patterson
"Days go by"-Bobby Bennett
"Come back home"-Truth
"What can I tell her"-JP Robinson
"I'm through tryin to prove my love to you" Womack
"Exercise my Love" John Edwards
"Mans temptation-Clarence Mann
"If only" Omar Chandler
"There's another in my Life"-Phillip Mitchell
Just never ever tire of any of them

By Yan (62.30.112.1) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Steve-

...nice to hear someone mention Bobby Bennet- "Days Go By"; one of the best ever releases on Philly Int. - and better than the Wilson Pickett original; and I'm a big Pickett fan. I don't think it's been on CD yet has it??

Expansion/Passion really should have done a sequel to that ace Philidelphia Uncovered CD with Bobby Bennett, Carolyn Crawford, Ebonys and all the other great PIR stuff not easily available on the silver disc.

Have to say I don't really like the "Deep Soul" tag and the way it's used.

By john dixon (205.188.209.38) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:21 pm:

that's a very intriguing comment Yan. Just what is Deep Soul? And how is it being misused?

By Yan (62.30.112.1) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:30 pm:

John- I'm off to bed now (1.30 in the morning U.K time)- but I'll do you a proper response in the morning I promise! It's a pretty complicated issue the way I look at it- and I'd have to think it out for fear of sounding like an idiot.

(my god that sounds lame!)

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:34 pm:

I couldn't post under this thread because I had no definition of "deep soul."

By john dixon (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:50 pm:

No problem, Yan, sleep on it. I just had to ask, though, because what it is and what I think it is may differ.

By PhilH (203.220.96.91) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 01:46 am:

"Your Time To Cry" - Betty Lavette (her finest moment)
"Sure As Sin" - Candi Staton or Laura Lee (YOU try choosing between 'em!)
"Life Turned Her That Way" - James Carr
"You're Gonna Make Me Cry" - Staple Singers (achieves the almost impossible feat of topping O.V. Wright)
"Heartaches, Heartaches" - O.V. Wright!
"Crying In The Rain" - Sweet Inspirations
"He's Not You" - Gwen McCrae
"If I Could See You One More Time" - Johnny Adams
"I Worship The Ground You Walk On" - Etta James
"Search Your Heart" - Wilson Pickett

and about a gazillion others!

Phil

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:42 am:

Bessie Banks "Try to leave me if you can" Volt

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:43 am:

Wicked Pickett "Sorry'bout that" Atlantic

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:46 am:

Solomon Burke " The price", "I'm hanging up my heart for you",

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:49 am:

Loleatta Holloway "Part time lover, full time fool", "Sweet thing"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:55 am:

Ted Taylor "Caught up in a good woman's love"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:57 am:

Otis Redding "Chained & bound", "Whatever my heart needs"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:59 am:

Frederick Knight "You can't deny me"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:01 am:

Clarence Carter "the few troubles I've had"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:05 am:

Sam Dees "It's all wrong, it's all right", "Just out of my reach"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:07 am:

Harold Melvin & Blue notes " I miss you"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:10 am:

Peggy Scott "Bill"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:11 am:

Dybamic Soul Machine "Boomerang"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:12 am:

Bobby Harris "mr. success"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:14 am:

Spencer Wiggins "I'd rather go blind"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:16 am:

Eddie Floyd "Consider me", "Got to make a comeback", "Spend all you've got on love"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:17 am:

Big Maybelle "Oh Lord what are doing to me"

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:20 am:

Rev. James Cleveland " Without a song" The Queen's theme song on WQBH (DETROIT).The late Marth Jean was some rapper.

By john dixon (63.101.17.207) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:27 am:

soulpuss, have you ever thought of maybe stockpiling or gathering your selections instead of a slew of individual postings? I mean, it makes no difference to me; it might save YOU a little extra effort, though. Peace.

By TonyRussi (68.18.34.90) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:33 am:

Yan,is that Bobby Bennett the same Bobby Bennett that was one of the Famous Flames?

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:01 pm:

Tony- dunno if Bobby Bennet of "Days Go By" is the JBs Bobby Bennet. It would be cool! Anyone know out there??

John-

.....just back after a very good night on the town. Thought I'd give it a go; bear in mind that when I to try and think things out properly I tend to sound like a pretentious twat � especially when typing drunk-

....my problem with "deep soul" is first and foremost, that it's a useless and biased term- in that it depends entirely on the perspective of the individual as to what deep soul is. To make matters worse it has been apppropiated wholescale in the present day to describe the genre of southern soul balladry; and it's use is thus a kind of insult to the production styles of other regions of the U.S, as "deep soul" immediately suggests a profundity above and beyond. You can't have a genre term that carrys with it an instant value judgement and you can't have a genre term that in each case relies on the tastes of the individual!! It's riduclous.

The southern issue is a whole other can of worms; I won't go too much in depth on my own views on this matter- but it can't have escaped the attention of most soul fans that the style of soul music that gains most critical "approval" (oh thank you sir!) and respect from popular music critics is southern soul. The reasons for this are compilcated and maybe not entirely relevant to what we are discussing; but here are a few things to consider-

the fact that most popuar music critics are coming from a background in sixties post-Beatles middle-class rock; which patronisingly looked back to (and often ripped off) earlier black music styles; long since irrelavant to the current forward-thinking black (and pop) audiences of the day. Southern soul would naturally be more acceptable to this audience- being more rooted in earlier styles and much more conservative than the soul music being made in the northern cities

the pretentious and uninformed belief (still popular and influential) that the more stripped down/crude/basic/unambitious something is the more "honest and "sincere" it is; which is tied into-

the false 20th century notion of craft as the natural enemy of "Art"

...okay (!!); gotta make it clear I love alot of southern cut soul music- but I do resent the way it's fans have the stranglehold on the history of our music and it's appreciation- that it's always seen as instantly more profound and intelligent than other styles. I remember literally doing a cartoon double take when I read that Peter Guaranlick book, and came across the line where he states quite casually (as if it were scientific fact that no one would argue with) that all soul music is either from the South or copying the South!! Whats so damaging about that is that there are a bare minimum of books that are available on soul music to the non-specialist; so something like that can easily become "history".

Anyways in this context I'm sure you can guess why I think the use of the term "deep-soul" to describe southern soul balladry is harmful. It's not like the southern soul buffs really need any help is it?? Their view of things IS the gospel; how many times have you read the sleevenotes to a CD and "learned" that an artists' best ever work was the time they were sent to Muscle Shoals for one session- my complaint is that in cases like this it's not that the critic has really fairly assessed the whole of the artists career or that the southern session in question was exceptional- it's merely that recording Southern-style muisc is instantly seen as a higher calling; everything else is trashy pop. The southern soul snob can't and won't see that the style they are into is every bit (more in my opinion) as formulaic as the Motown/Uptown music they look down on. Artists were sent down to Muscle Shoals when it was hot, just as they were sent to Detroit when it was hot- and they all came back with the same sound reagrdless of who they were as an artist. If you think thats a criticism it's not (REALLY- I'm a big fan of Muscle Shoals and Fame at their dynamic best), it's just I'd like people to get things in perspective.

(example for ya- I have read quite a few things on DeeDee Warwick that stated as fact that her Atco work was her best. I like "She Didn't Know" but I don't see how any non-biased, well-rounded listener can really make that statement. Her New York/Philly work through the sixties was some of the very best uptown soul ever created- the best writers, producers and arrangers working for her- timeless songs that have been much covered and survived: but like I said it wouldn't really matter what the material was like to the people I am talking about)

��returning to my first complaint about �deep soul� as a genre; I�d have to say that it still makes more sense to me to use it as a general tag for Southern balladry then in the way David Godin (the originator of the term) uses it- which is basically to mean �records I like�. Godin did a hell of a lot of good for the appreciation of soul music (and Motown!) in the 6ts (along with many others), and perhaps as a result he doesn�t get called on for anything he writes these days. If you�ve got the Kent Deep Soul CDs (which are all worth buying) it should be pretty apparent to you that Godin defines �Deep Soul� on his own personal parameters; the CDs are quite divergent in style. Good to listen too; but throw away the sleeve notes unless you want to get frustrated; here one gem for ya-

�Deep Soul is unique in as much as it is the only musical genre, operating within what is generally known, (in the widest sense), as �popular music�, that reflects deep and profound emotions�

�.I don�t even know how to respond to this mind-numbingly stupid and offensive statement; perhaps I don�t even need to- let it hang itself. Whats so frustrating is that he really refers to deep-soul as a specific and concious genre; but only according to his own tastes. (he makes a point of stating in the sleeve notes to the first CD that it is �the first ever assembly of authentic Deep Soul�- what rank arrogance!) I suppose since he came up with the term he has the right to do that; but then he gets confused and frustrated that people don�t understand/use the term correctly-

�..it�s meaning has become weakened and devalued through careless and sloppy designation. It seems bizarre to me that two such simple words whose conjuction together makes a meaning which to me is so self-evident, could be misapplied, but it�s happened.�

�that was from an article in Voices magazine. Anyway I don�t like Godins writing; but I�m the only one on the planet so I�ll wrap this up and let people get on with tearing me limb from limb!! I suppose I didn�t really need to write all of this- my basic complaints are in the first paragraph; much of the rest is my own (drunken and rambling) opinion which can (and should) be argued against. But I WILL stand head-fast that deep-soul is not a useful term. Hope this clears things up John�..(or are you more confused than before)!!!!

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 09:49 pm:

Hello Yan: Don't sweat it. Go play some records you consider deep to confirm your conviction. Let the music play. As long as the song is of ballad tempo, has very strong vocals, make you move your head and shoulders slowly sideways, even close your eyes, makes you want to play it to the end, even get goosebumps then you most likely have a piece of deep soul. You are the final arbiter. It doesn't matter where the record was cut. My two cents. My method has never let me down.Maybe I'll do a post about sweet soul just to cover all the bases.

By Nish (170.224.224.102) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 10:25 pm:

Yan - WELL SAID!!!!

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 10:37 pm:

DOES ANY ONE REMEMBER THE IVY JO HUNTER CLASSIC..."I REMEMBER WHEN" (DEDICATED TO BEVERLY)...BEAUTIFUL TUNE...AND HEARING IVY SIT DOWN AT A PIANO AND GOING SOLO WITH IT...IS AS SOULFUL AS IT GETS!!!...STU

By john dixon (63.101.17.207) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 07:15 am:

Thanks alot Yan, by the way, your post doesn't read like drunken ramblings! You really helped my understanding of a term that I assumed to be UK derived and had never used personally. I had made up my own interpretation of how it seemed to define itself to me, though, and I wasn't too far off. As a native southerner, I felt that Deep Soul was music from "around here" with a decided rural, gospel feel. If I could feel the dirt and hear the church, then it might be Deep Soul. However, I never knew that there was such snobbery connected with the term, hence I'll refrain from ever using it.
I may be from the South but I love my Motown, Chcago Soul, and Philly Soul too much to denigrate one genre in favor of another. Sure, to broadly generalize, southern soul is grittier and more churchy, Motown more sophisticated and polished, Philly Soul more lush in its string arrangements, and Chicago Soul more breezy and Latin-tinged, but, damn, it's all great and these different shadings comprise the whole wonderful enchilada. It's all magical stuff to my ears I couldn't do without any of it.
Thanks again, Yan, for taking the time to express yourself on the matter.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 07:44 am:

Here are some examples to show that recording location doesn't matter: Toots & Maytals, "Daddy". I guess this is even more "southern" than southern. Teddy P. & Whitney, "Hold me". Bottom line ,strong vocals that make you rock gently sideways. If it don't move you emotionally it ain't deep. Even Tom Jones"I'll never fall in love again" gives me goosebumps. Strong vocal inducing strong emotional feedback.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 08:13 am:

Here I go again; Even Salsoul had a searing deep soul number in "Without You" by Marva Monroe & Cubby St. Charles. Norman Harris arranged this gem. Cubby's vocals provide the "deep". Amen.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 09:20 am:

DEEP SOUL - LEVI STUBBS.

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 09:30 am:

ANYTHING BY THE FIVE ROYALES!

By Eli (151.197.5.24) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 09:51 am:

Bobby Bennett of Days Go By was not the James Brown guy.
He is from Philly and here is a cute story.
Around the turn of the decade going into the sixties,there was a group caled the Ivytones whose lead singer lived across the street from me.
John Ivey heard my awful strumming which you could hear a mile away and rang my bell to inquire.
Somehow he thought I was good enough to accompany his group and the very first gig I ever did was with the Ivytones at Carribbean Hall in north Philly.
You are all probably wondering what this has to do with Bobby Bennett??
Well, here goes.
A few months into my tenure with the Ivytones I was in bed with the Asian Flu which at the time was the flu of the month.
I had chills, fever, you name it!!
Anyway my mom calls up to me and says "Eli there is a young man who wants to see you , his name is Bobby Bennett" "Bobby Bennet??, I thought, I know noone by that name"
So feverishly I directed my mom to send him upstairs and he told me that John Ivey had recommended him to me as he had recently arrived from South Carolina and needed to meet some music people.
What music people, I thought. I am just a kid and a novice to life at best.
anyway I craweled out of bed and proceeded to hook up my recently aquired Les Paul Gold Top and my new Gibson amp.
He then asked if he could play something and proceeded to play Johnny B. Goode, and Brook Benton's Its just a matter of time and several more gems.
He was quite a good guitarist in a country sort of way.
Not long after he signed with V Tone/Len records and much later down the line with PIR recording the afforementioed song originally recorded by Wilson Pickett on his In Philadelphia album.
He is now a minister/hair dresser.

By TonyRussi (68.18.34.26) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 09:59 am:

"Tell Daddy"Clarence Carter, "Love Attack"James Carr, "Share What You Got"William Bell,"You Hurt So Good"Mitty Collier,"Woman In Love"Mary Wells,"A Woman Will Do Wrong"Dee Dee Sharp...I Love all SOUL music,Southern,Sophisticated,& Funk.

By Lynn Bruce (65.60.200.153) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:24 am:

BOBBY BLUE BLAND-- TURN ON YOUR LOVE LIGHT!!!

This song is my all time favorite!!! I,d also put this under" finger poppin" This song has everything going for it. Great arrangement,great vocal,driving as hell,cooking band.If this song doesn,t make your heart soar like an eagle,then there,s no hope for you!!!
LYNN

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:22 pm:

DEEP IN MY SOUL...BOBBY BLUE BLAND.

By Dick Gamble (216.93.58.214) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 02:27 am:

Most of All...Moonglows
I'll be Home..Flamingos
Starlite...Moonglows
Story Untold...Nutmegs
Whispering Sorrows...Nutmegs

By IrvingtonGroove (12.22.43.240) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 01:02 am:

Temptation 'bout to Get Me - The Knight Bros.

By Soulpuss (24.102.217.36) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 06:26 am:

Just a correction here. In my opening post the label for Grover Mitchell "I'm still in love with you " should be Josie. I just came across my copy of this record and I realised my booboo.