By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 07:18 pm:

Okay: apologies to most of you as this is boring trainspotter territory- and I guess only aimed at people who follow the Northern scene here in the U.K (which would include myself to a degree), and/or seriously knowledgable rare-soul collectors. (a category which I'm afraid doesn't include me)

In about 1992 Richard Searling did a top 30 of reccomended "crossover" tracks for his (then) column for B&S; among the tracks I do know from this list are some I don't- and some I'm pretty sure don't exist atall. (ie. they're cover-ups)

Since this list was published ten or so years ago; I was kind of hoping the tracks in question had been uncovered within the scene. Either that or some of you with big collections could take a guess at what they might be- in the typical style of a cover-up the artist/label names are propably gonna be a good indication of the style of the record. Why do I care?? Well, Searling has good taste; and I was put on to some great records by this and other charts he did at the time. O.K here were the five I wasn't sure about-

JOHNNY MOORE-Yesterday, Today And Tomorrow (Brunswick)
MARVIN SMITH-Peace(Innovation II)
BILLY MILLER-It Should Have Been Me(Columbia)
WALES WALLACE-Your Loves Got Me(Mayfield)
OTIS LEAVILL-You Bring Out The Best In Me(Dakar)

....the only one I've since worked out is the Wales Wallace; which I'm pretty certain is actually Satin-Your Loves Got Me; which was on one of the Goldmine "Modern Soul" CDs. Of course the Otis Leavill could just be a mistake and meant to be "You Brought Out The Good In Me". But I'm sure Marvin Smith didn't record for Innovation II; bear in mind tho', that throughout this chart there were the wrong labels listed even though the artist/title would be right- which I thought was very pathetic -so it could be an obscure Marvin Smith track for another label. I don't have a clue who Billy Miller is/was- so this might be the real artist/label for all I know.

Does anyone also know if the "Sandy Golden" track ("When We're Alone Tonight") Searling was playing more recently has since been uncovered as well??

Well I'll leave it with those who know more than me. I'm not expecting a big or immediate response to this- any help that comes my way over the next month or so will be much appreciated. Cheers!

YAN

P.S If anyone wants me to post the chart or any others from the column I'll be more than welcome.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 07:31 pm:

Actually there was a Billy Miller who wrote with Leon Ware and Kathy Wakefield, wasn't there??

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.63) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 08:45 pm:

Yan,
I am not really into crossover soul,
strictly 60s uptempo/mid tempo to a degree.
A friend of mine has a Sandy Golden track on the Masterpiece record Label(no.201)which has remained a rarity and not to my personal liking but is loved by thousands and was played at Stafford/100 club etc called 'you're my everything/grey clouds' and was last valued at around the 800/1000 mark.
Sorry I cant be of more help.
mel.

By Yan (62.30.112.3) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

Mel- thanks for that anyway; any response is appreciated.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.40) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 09:40 pm:

Heres more,
otis leaville/Im amazed/just a memory/Limelight(no.3020).
cant stop loving you/baby(why cant you hear me)/Brunswick(no.55337).
Gotta right to cry/rise sally rise/Lucky(no.1004).

Johnny Moore/just be for real/(I wanna)spend the rest of my/Brunswick 1970s rarity(no.55459).
NORTHERN
Im only half a man without you/cant live without your love/Jardan(no.7740).

Marvin Smith/who will do your running now/youre really something sad/Mayfield(942).

Wales Wallace/that aint the way/were not happy/Bashie(102)
youll never get away/Igotta have you/Renee(no.111)
mel.
The best person to ask is Dave Flynn who has his own cover/up site etc.Do you have his link?Let me know.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 06:17 pm:

Mel-

thanks for posting again! I do know (though don't have all) the records you mention- I reckon the tracks I am looking for are propably not these artists atall; which is a shame because I am a big fan of pretty much everything Otis Leavill, Marvin Smith and Johnny Moore ever did!

.....Do ya have that Westside CD from a few years back called something like "The Class Of Mayfield High"; it was all the late 6Ts/early 7Ts Curtom material of Major Lance (inc. the ace "Sweeter As The Days"), Billy Butler and best of all Otis Leavill. All of Otis' sides for Dakar are super-fine; you have to get this CD! Those two Johnny Moore sides on that Blue Rock double-CD are maybe my favourite on the compilation, along with (that man again!) the Otis Leavill tracks. ("Reason To Be Lonely" etc.) And of course, "Walk Like A Man" is a total classic. Yes, "Who Will Do Your Running Now" is great too- I am no big collector and mainly buy CDs these days (shock horror!) so I have this on a Curtom CD; I do have Marvin Smith's wonderful double-header "Have More Time/Time Stopped" on 45; and still play it far, far too much.

I know the Dave Flynn "anorak" site; I think he has covered a-c or something in his complete cover-up list; yes?? I guess I will have to wait! Having said that this list is pretty much traditional Northern only- so maybe no luck anyway.

Thanks for your efforts anyway. This site really is fantastic.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.64) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 08:45 pm:

Yan,
I am not a big collector of cds although I buy some.I still collect vinyl when I want most things.
Although cds are handy for the ridiculous priced stuff and the real obscure and shit rare obscurities.
I am lucky as I Have most of my 30 odd years on the uk rare/northern soul scene in some form and all catalouged etc.
I have most of the cuts you mention above,but my limit is 1974 with things like Billy Harner,Fuzz,Mylestones etc.Although I have lots of things from Bessie Smith,Esther Philips,Big Maybelle,Howling Wolf etc right through the 50s/etc.
Have you heard the flip to Major lANCES 'you dont want me no more' called 'wait till I get you in my arms'I think.
All Billy Butlers stuff are the real deal.As with most chicago stuff.
Have you heard the (was)unissued stomper by The Mayfield Players inst called 'dont start none'frantic and stomping.
I love 'superfly'the whole album,freddies dead,pusher man,superfly,the lot.
I Remember my brother having a cracked copy of J.Moores superb rare at the time(72)Walk like a man,he sold it at the mecca for 7pounds.It was a tenner at least for a good copy.

Sorry I couldnt help you with your query,
keep on keeping on
mel(andthensome)

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 09:45 pm:

Mel,
...if you go up to '74, and you like early 70s Curtis then you could definetly get into quite a bit of crossover stuff. Quite a lot of the tracks on that Searling crossover chart have since "crossed-over" (!) to the Northern scene proper, after years on the more specialist crossover collectors scene, so perhaps you have heard them out and about. But I do hate it when people try and force their tastes on others; believe me there is nothing wrong with only listening to 6Ts, 5Ts, 7Ts...whatever. Having said all that here's the chart anyway!!-

1. DARRELL BANKS �The Harder You Love� (Groovesville Acetate)
2. ALEX BROWN �I�m Not Responsible� (Sundi)
3. WILLIE TEE �Teasin� You Again� (Gatur)
4. WILLIE PICKETT �On The Stage Of Life� (Soul Pot)
5. BOBBY TAYLOR �Don�t Be Afraid� (Gordy)
6. AL JAMES & THE NEW RHYTHM BAND �Give Me Up� (Alocis)
7. JOHNNY MOORE �Yesterday Today And Tomorrow� (Brunswick)
8. TY KARIM �Lightin Up� (Romark)
9. L.V. JOHNSON �Tryin� To Hold On� (Chi-Heat)
10.CHUCK COCKERAM �Have I Got The Right� (Mala)
11.JEAN WELLS �What Have I Got To Lose� (Calla/UK Sonnet)
12.EDDIE BILLUPS �Ask My Heart� (Peachtree)
13.MARVIN SMITH �Peace� (Innovation II)
14.BILLY MILLER �It Should Have Been Me� (Columbia)
15.VIVIAN REED �Save Your Love For Me� (Atco)
16.BABY WASHINGTON �Cup Runneth Over� (Sixth Avenue)
17.BETTYE LAVETTE �You�ll Wake Up Wiser� (Atco)
18.RICHARD CAITON �I�d Like To Get Near You� (Uptight)
19.THE MINITS �Still A Part Of Me� (MGM SoundsOfMemphis)
20.SATIN "Your Love's Got Me"
21.ISLEY BROTHERS �My Love Is Your Love� (MFP)
22.MARY HOLMES �I Need Your Lovin�� (Philly Groove)
23.HOLLY MAXWELL �Only When You�re Lonely� (Constellation)
24.OTIS LEAVILL �You Bring Out The Best In Me� (Dakar)
25.BOBBY WOMACK �Tried And Convicted� (Minit)
26.MARVIN GAYE/KIM WESTON �When We�re Together� (Tamla)
27.RUBY ANDREWS �Just Lovin� You� (Zodiac)
28.DETROIT SOUND OF FRICTION �I�m Leavin� You� (Heavy Sound)
29.BOBBY PATTERSON �I�m In Love With You� (Jetstream/UK Action)
30.BARBARA McNAIR �It Happens Every Time� (Motown)

...I've corrected all the "mistakes" Searling made with the labels; and replaced WALES WALLACE (no.20) with the real artist- SATIN. (no idea of the label on that one though) Couple of notes- TY KARIM is (propably quite obviously) the mellow 7Ts version of "Lighten Up Baby"; pretty much unrecognisable from the (also great) "Somebody, Somewhere" Northern original. Oh, and I believe Searling has mentioned that he prefers the LP version of RUBY ANDREWS to the 45; it must be a different take/arrangment??

There is some great stuff on here- for instance, the Jean Wells side is a big favourite of mine; very beautiful.

Yeah, I love that Mayfield players track- It's on a CD of all The Fascinations stuff- including one of the most amazing soul ballads ever recorded; their version of "Can't Stay Away From You". Mel: don't sleep until you own this record- believe me. It can't be that hard to find or expensive. Well, good night!

By Marc (145.243.194.67) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:01 am:

Hi Yan, I guess you meant to say "AinT That Love Enough" on Highland being the Northern original of Ty Karim`s "Lighten Up Baby" rather then "Somebody Somewhere". Anyway, a brill chart and I still get chills up and down my spine when I hear "Ask My Heart" by Eddie Billups.

Marc Forrest

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.3) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:07 am:

Hey Marc,
I have the Larry Atkins on Highland and personally I think it is far and away the version.
Ty Karims is second best.
mel.
ps Havent got a copy of Larry Atkins going spare on Romark Marc by any chance(snigger).

By Marc (145.243.194.67) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:25 am:

Hi Mel, at least Larry Atkins offers also a very good flipside ;-). Sorry, no LA on Romark. Marc Forrest

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:31 am:

Marc, Mel-

...I thought Ike And Tina's "Somebody Somewhere" backing track WAS the original basis for both Darrel Banks' cover and Ty Karim/Larry Atkins' "Lighten Up Baby/Aint That Enough"....AND Larry Laster's "Go For Yourself" (which is my favourite maybe just for the lyrics alone), yeah?? If one of the others was first; no I didn't know that.

The 7Os cut by Ty Karim is the same lyrics, but completly different backing and maybe even tune. More of a mellow 2-step thing. I think the label misprinted it as "Lightin Up": you can hear it on the Goldmine "Crossover Soul" CD.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:50 am:

I think the point as well, was that of all the major labels EMI have been the most plundered; propably because they are UK-based as the rare-soul re-issue scene mostly is. Think back to those first Kent compilations in the early 80s; many of them of EMI material (or ABC/MCA). By contrast it wasn't till very near the end of their time issuing vinyl that Kent were allowed near the Atlantic/Warners vaults: and that great "Paying Our Dues" LP came out.

Heres 4 more EMI (I think) tracks I'd love to see on CD-

WILLIE TEE- Take Your Time
BETTYE SWANN- Closed For The Season
BARBARA BANKS- Living In The Past
BABY WASHINGTON- I Got It Bad

.....oh, and just for fun (I'm bored!) heres a dream Northern Soul (mostly)compilation CD of Universal material. Either stuff that hasn't been on CD (legit) or hasn't been overexposed on CD. Bit of everything here; from Crossover to Wigan pop- all good tho'. It would sell millions, I swear Harry!!

1.BUD HARPER-Mr Soul
2.JOEY HEATHERTON-When You Call Me Baby
3.SAPPHIRES-Evil One
4.JIMMY RADCLIFFE-I'll Pretend I'm Loving You
5.LEE ROYE-Tears
6.JOANNE GARRET-Foolish Me
7.MINITS-Still A Part Of Me
8.ALBERT JONES-15 Cent Love
9.JIVE FIVE-If I Had A Chance To Love You
10.CISSY HOUSTON- Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself
12.TEMPTATIONS-Say You
13.KIM WESTON-Gonna Make It Up To You
14.DALTON BOYS-I've Been Cheated
15.EDDIE PARKER-Body Chains
17.OTIS LEAVILL-It's The Same Old Me
18.KIM WESTON- Just The Kind Of Guy
19.JACKIE ROSS-Trust In Me
20.PRINCE HAROLD-Forget About Me
21.KIM WESTON-Thats Groovy
22.ROY HAMILTON-The Panic Is On
23.GARLAND GREEN-Just Aint Good Enough
24.DELLS-It's All Up To You
25.RONNIE MCNEIR-Wendys Gone

..that was fun!

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:51 am:

Aaah! I was supposed to post that on the Gloria Jones thread- me and Mel were talking about compilation CDs and EMI in particular- sorry everyone!

By Mark Speck (65.57.16.50) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 12:15 am:

No problem, Yan! That list would actually make a very good CD!

I have to wonder why Ady hasn't done a CD of MCA/Universal stuff--he made many an album of material from that operation. Perhaps he no longer has a deal with them?

Best,

Mark

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 07:21 am:

Mark-

....thanks! So what would your CD look like??

Those early Kent LPs of MCA material waere great; Goldmine and other re-issue companies have definetly followed Kents' lead in terms of tracklisting. Did you get the Soul Satisfaction CD Richard Searling did for Universal?? It's an excellent CD; but compare it to a couple of those old Kent ABC/MCA LPs: it's kind of an amalgam of them; with a few new tracks thrown in.

As far as a current Kent deal with Universal; they are still the main outlet for the Impressions' ABC stuff in the U.K. (witness the recent re-issue of their brilliant "Definitive Impressions" CD) But yes; it does seem odd that Universal would prefer Goldmine to issue so much of their stuff. ie. All the Peacock/Sureshot material in their most recent Northern CDs- not that I'm complaining too much about getting the likes of The Malibus-"Gee Baby", Bud Harper-"Let Me Love You" and Little Eddie Taylor-"Had A Good Time" on CD. But as much as I am glad Goldmine exist, you would always choose Kent to reissue a label/artists material wouldn't you?? (sound quality, sleevnotes etc)

Personally I would like to see Kent issue more straight Northern CDs (though not at the expense of their other superb soul CDs); whenever they do they are always fantastic.

By benji (194.127.2.72) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 07:44 am:

yan,

i think the jury's still out there about goldmine doing proper licensing or just paying the fees to US copyright bureau or whatever it's called.
and kent did issue albums with peacock/sureshot stuff back in the 80s , didnt they?

regards,
benji

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 07:59 am:

Benji-

....yeah Kent did do LPs of Peacock/Sureshot stuff through ABC/MCA; thats what I was talking about. I was pretty sure that Goldmine's stuff was 100% legit; If what you're saying is true that is quite a shock. Thanks for bringing that up- and please keep me (and the forum) posted.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.104) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 08:19 am:

Hey fellas,
I would blow you out of the water if you were to see all the documentation and Licensing act laws etc that I have that are related entirely to the Goldmine set up.
Serious stuff,that was all given to me after my good mate P.Lawson was murdered.
But I wont reveal all as I have no axe to grind with the Goldmine company.
As I Take as I find,and not on hearsay.But Pete Lawson and Mr..... hated each other with a passion.
But were talking full and thorough investigation material in about the size of a book.
Eliot Ness would of been proud.
Mel(ex fed)up!

By Eddie Hubbard (195.92.67.68) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:48 am:

Hello Yan , the version of " Your Loves Got Me " that Searling was playing at the time , wasn't Satin , but was The Magnetics " The Look On Your Face " which recently got a release on Grapevine 2000 .I think the Johnny Moore and Billy Miller are both unissued sides , brilliant aren't they ? Best ,Eddie.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.82) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 07:27 am:

Kev,yan,
I've found the Bob Crewe item but I am afraid its far to long to put on here.
It is in 2 mags and would take forever.
sorry fellas.
mel.

By Yan (80.194.105.141) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

Eddie- THANK YOU. I've yet to get the Magnetics single- I certainly will though- I believe they've just recently reissued the L.V.Johnson track from the chart also?? Do you know if Grapevine 2000 are planning any kind of best-of type CD of their (great) single releases so far?? A random thought- maybe the Marvin Smith- Peace track is Larry Saunders' "We Gotta Have Peace" from the Free Angela LP?? Just a wild guess! Thanks again for letting me know regarding The Magnetics- you wouldn't know about Sandy Golden- When We're Alone Tonight would you?? Or is it still covered up?

Mel- No worries. Thanks for looking anyway; maybe if there were any interesting/new/curious info in the piece you could just let us know about it- cheers!

By recordboyusa (67.34.73.196) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 01:07 pm:

For that Universal CD... how about some Little Charles Decca tracks?

Yes!!!

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By Yan (62.30.112.1) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:21 pm:

Jeff- good call on Little Charles! I saw this funny chart on the web which Kev Roberts (former Wigan Casino DJ) did of the top ten quality cuts which completely cleared the floor at Wigan on first play- read it and weep:

And finally, 10 spins in 1973 that bombed out on the Station Rd Maplewood Sprung thingy.

1.Seven Souls (Okeh) I promptly sold it for £3
2.The Masqueraders -.(Wand)
3.Ernie Marbray (Wee)
4.Gentlemen 4 (Wand) swapped for King Sporty on Music Maker 2 years later. A very poor businessman in those days!!
5.Ken Williams (Okeh)
6.Bobby Williams (Sure-Shot)
7.Darryl Stewart (Wand) what a great song
8.Eugene Jefferson (Open)
9.Little Charles (Decca)
10.Marva Lee(Atco)

...well I don't know the Ernie Marbary and I don't much like Darryl Stewart's "Name It And Claim It" - but everything else on here is class.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:28 pm:

Mel:
Thanks anyway regarding the Bob Crewe articles. If you send me an email to kevingoins@juno.com I will send you my mailing address so you could send me photocopies of the Bob Crewe articles.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.40) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:55 pm:

Kev,
at present my computer is not recieving any in coming mail.
I am waiting for a mate to look it over,but his work (he works on computers )has kept him busy and cant do anything until he has fixed things but will send you a mail now so you have my e.mail address and will do you some photo copies
of the Bob Crewe article's and send them on when I recieve your address.
Apologies to David,Ralph and one and all for once again using this forum to pass messages on.
Thank you for your paitence.
Mel.
Normal play will now resume.