By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:21 am:

SOMETIMES WHEN AN ARTIST HEARS A SONG OR DEMO FOR THE FIRST TIME THEY SAY I DON'T LIKE IT,BUT AFTER IT'S RECORDED THEY SOMETIMES CHANGE THIER MINDS,SUCH AS{B-A-B-Y,CARLA THOMAS,POPPA WAS ROLLING STONE,THE TEMPS}OR IN THE CASE OF THE MARVELETTES THEY REGRET HAVING TURNED DOWN A SONG[BABY LOVE,THE SUPREMES}.WHO DO YOU KNOW THAT HATED IT BUT LATER LOVED IT.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:35 am:

I understand that the Reflections greeted "(Just Like) Romeo & Juliet" with some dismay - nevertheless it was their ticket to the Big Time!

Didn't Mary Wilson once say that after she and the girls had recorded "Where Did Our Love Go" she disliked the song so much that she went home and cried..?

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:43 am:

Aretha Franklin at first turned down "Son Of A Preacher Man" because she felt it hit "too close to home" (being a minister's daughter). She later recorded it after hearing Dusty Springfield's version.

Dionne Warwick never cared for the lyrics to "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" but later grew to love the song (and the city).

The Crystals hated "He's A Rebel" so Phil Spector hired Darlene Love & the Blossoms to cut the song.

Wilson Pickett thought that "Hey Jude" was a corny song until guitarist Duane Allman dared Pickett to record it (calling the Wicked "too chicken" to sing a Beatles song).

The Commodores rejected Lionel Richie's "Lady" before he offered the song to Kenny Rogers.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.142) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:50 am:

Hello all,

Otis Redding didn't particularly care to record "Try A Little Tenderness" and had to be persuaded to record it by Steve Cropper.

Peace!

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:14 am:

I read somewhere that Deon Jackson didn't like "Love Makes The World Go Round," which is odd, seeing that he wrote it. Barbara Lewis didn't like "Baby I'm Yours."

By Chancellor of Soul (66.207.40.18) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:56 pm:

When I had the 5 record LP of "The Motown Story",
Junior Walker told the story of how he didn't
want to record, " What Does It Take", but a
songwriter sort of twisted his arm to record
the song. Maybe it was Johnny Bristol ?????

Peace,
Mike Boone
(Chancellor of Soul)

By Eli (151.197.41.76) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

Here are a couple of "straight from the horses mouth to you" stories.
One day back when PIR and Thom Bell were still at their old offices in the Schubert theater building
I was in the snack are next to the Coke machine and Bobby Smith of the Spinners came over to the machine and he had a look of dismay on his face.
So I asked him what was up and he said that they hated that song I'll be around and they hope that it is not going to be a single.
Another time at the same office John Whitehead and Huff were at the piano running down Backstabbers.
Shortly afterward Eddie Levert comes out and says to me "yo Eli man, I hope that them mo********ers don't make us cut that shit"!! "They are supposed to know our sound and that s**t just aint it"!!

One day while walking to the loo down the hall alongside Sigma studio 2, the door was wide open and Tedy P. was standing at the desk and he was listening to the vocal playback of his song Cant we try. o he caled me in and said"Hey Eli, check this out.. I am gonna be the next Barry Manilow"!!!!

I had also heard that Tina Turner hated Whats love... and that it sounded too Diana Ross!!

I will try to remember more.

By Creole (68.18.96.126) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 01:58 pm:

Levi Stubbs...Reach Out, Sugar Pie, Baby I Need Your Loving, to name a few...

By Eli (151.197.41.76) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:07 pm:

I have found that usualy when an artist dislikes a song it usually becomes a hit by themselves or someone else and usually it is their signature song.

By Ed Wolfrum (69.3.253.34) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:43 pm:

Danny Dallas came up stairs at United when he was doing the vocal OVD on "Love makes the world go round" for a cup of coffee. I was in the optical room and he walked in and I asked how it was going? He replied that Dion and Ollie we were "discussing" the song and thought it better that he leave.

Reading between the lines I knew well what was going down.

Ollie got his way, and his hit.

Another story of:

Producer knows Best!!!

By Eli (151.197.41.76) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:54 pm:

That is our job and what we are hired for in the first place, finding great material no matter what the origin. I refuse to ever again record a tune "written" by an "artist" who is barely a singer. Excuse the quotation marks but I am only trying to emphasize a point.
Sometimes, I'd rather work with someone who is not a writer for that reason.
Most of my best studio experiences were and are with non-writer artists who really know how to deliver a lyric aand squeeze every ounce of emotion out of every line.
I am currently recording Latin artist Anthony Colon who is doing his first non Spsnish cd.
He has had three gold albums in the Latin genre. He is fortunately a GREAT vocalist and a gifted songwriter and he and I are a wonderful writing team and I realy look forward to our sessions.

anyway, let me stop rambling for if keep continuing in this manner the seasons will soon change!!!

By Horse (159.53.238.243) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:14 pm:

I had the honor of meeting and working with Lionel Richie regarding a song I was a co-writer on. Upon hearing the song, Lionel told me: "You Got Yourself A Doggone Hit...You Just Need To Take A Knife And Trim Off A Little Bit Of The Fat and I would Like To Be The One To Do That". However, Lionel stated that even though he loved the song, the final decision we be up to his producer James Carmichael. He then told me that after writing Three Times A Lady , he hated the song. James Carmichael told him, Lionel brother, if you cut this song you will thank me for the rest of your life. Lionel also said he hated his song titled Hello after writing it. I guess the rest is history. James must have some kinda ear..!

Horse

By dvdmike (12.84.11.94) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 05:26 pm:

Dionne Warwick said she didn't like "Once You Hit The Road"

Gladys Horton of The Marvelettes said she hated "Baby Love" and turned it down, you know the rest of the story.

"One Bad Apple" written by George Jackson was first offered to Motown for The Jackson 5 who passed on it. The Osmonds turned it into their first #1.

Jerry Fuller first offered his song, "Travelin' Man" to Sam Cooke. One of Rick Nelson's people picked it up out of the trash bin and it became a #1 smash.

Dennis Edwards sang "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" through clenched teeth because of a line in the lyric, "It was the 3rd of September..." Dennis' own father had died on the 3rd of September.

By Russ Terrana (198.178.8.81) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 06:36 pm:

When I worked on "Don't Leave Me This Way" by Thelma Houston, the only 2 people that liked it was Hal Davis (the producer) and myself. The brass at Motown didn't think it had a chance and just put it out there. After A few weeks it made it to number 1.

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 07:12 pm:

Wow, Mr. Wolfrum, thanks for sharing that with us. Thank God Ollie McLaughlin DID have his way "Love Makes..." is one of the nicest songs out there.

By RD (63.188.32.55) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 08:03 pm:

Ed's absolutely right about Dion Jackson and "Love Makes the World Go Round," though Jackson wrote the song he hated it. He played piano in a classy Chicago lounge for years and would tell anybody who brought the song up exactly how he felt about it. Odds & End, who redid the song, didn't care for it either; they recorded it because Thom Bell and Bobby Martin insisted. It was their biggest hit.

The O'Jays indeed hated "Backstabbers"; they thought it was silly, not the words, but how they had to sing it, especially that phrase "what they doin'." Ed Levert hated "Lipstick Traces" so much he refused to sing it, which is why Walter Williams got a shot.

Winnie Lovett (Manhattans) didn't want to sing their first hit "I Wanna Be" because the key was too high. He thought George Smith should do it but Joe Evans insisted.

Sylvester Potts (Contour) didn't like "First I Look at the Purse" and has called it "one of the silliest songs Smokey ever wrote." He probably didn't like their early non hit "The Old Miner" either, which Smokey also wrote.

Hattie Littles didn't like her first Motown recording (on Gordy)and only performed it live once.

This list could go on and on.

By Nish (216.148.244.38) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 09:23 pm:

RD, do you know anymore about Deon Jackson? I'd heard he performed at a classy joint in Chicago... what kind of music did/does he perform? Is it feasible for one to catch a Deon Jackson show these days? Does he care for his other tunes like "Ooh Baby" or "I Need A Love Like Yours?"

By stephanie (199.183.161.157) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 09:42 pm:

Thanks Nish for bringing this man up. I would also like to know what Deon Jackson is doing now and are there any pics of him anywhere I thought he was a great singer. He should have had more chart hits.
Stephanie

By RD (63.188.34.129) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 09:54 pm:

Nish, that was years ago when I saw Deon in Chi-town and I don't know if he's still doing the gig but at the time he had been a fixture at the place for awhile. He played piano and sang while people ate and drinked. For all I know he probably had a nine to five day job too. I haven't heard that he passed so I assumed he's still living in Chicago. My impression is that Deon didn't care much for the soul scene and saw himself as a crooner ala Johnny Mathis. There also could be some bitterness about the recording industry at play.

Check out a CD of his recordings, on some he sounds like Smokey Robinson.

Smokey once said that "I Like It Like That" was he least favorite Miracles' song.

By Nish (128.239.47.64) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:44 pm:

Thanks RD. On "Ooh Baby" he DEFINITELY sounds like Smokey. This is going to sound ODD, but for some reason when I hear "Hard To Get A Thing Called Love" he reminds me of David Ruffin. Call me crazy.

That's sad that he might not really care for a music scene that he really made enjoyable, even though he had a relatively short career. Maybe the R&B Foundation can restore his faith in the record biz by honoring him next year. It's one of my mini-missions in life to make sure Deon Jackson is recognized as the soul legend he is (or the soul legend he is to me).

Steph, don't mention it, you know I can go on ad infinitum about Deon Jackson (kinda sorta like I am now, huh?). Yep, it's an understatement to say that he occupies a peculiarly special place in my own pantheon of soul greats.

If "I Like It Like That" was Smokey's least favorite song, at least the Miracles' and the Funks made it enjoyable for me!

By PhilH (203.220.99.130) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 03:52 am:

Johnnie Taylor apparently hated "Who's Makin' Love" big time, and called it "that shoogity-boogity song" until it went to #1. And a couple of years before he died, he wasn't that enamoured of Rich Cason's composition "Good Love", until Cason threw some Sam Cooke-style vocal runs into it.

I thought the reason that Darlene & The Blossoms did "He's a Rebel" was that The Crystals' previous single "He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss)" died a deservedly quick death, Spector needed a new song in a hurry, and the Crystals were unavailable for some reason (out on the road)?

Phil

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 11:50 am:

Phil:
I spoke to La La Brooks of the Crystals back in 1986 when they played an oldies show in Rochester with Lee Andrews & the Hearts and Del Shannon. When I asked her about "He's A Rebel" she didn't hesistate to tell me how much the group hated the song, which prompted Phil to say that he could find another group of black girls, call them the Crystals and record the song. With Darlene Love & the Blossoms in his phone book, Phil didn't have to look far...
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Ed Wolfrum (69.3.253.34) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:48 pm:

The vocal OVD and mix were done at United Sound by none other than Don Davis himself.

Don had to pull teeth to get that sound out of him.

By BankHouseDave (195.93.50.9) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 05:36 pm:

Brenda Holloway hated Every Little Bit Hurts so much she cried while she was recording it.

By Mark Speck (64.158.96.69) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 12:31 am:

Nish--according to his entry in the Billboard Book of One-Hit Wonders, Deon mentioned that he was indeed playing standards in a piano bar in Chicago. Occasionally, he said that someone would ask him to play "Love Makes the World Go 'Round", and he'd do it, albeit grudgingly.

Best,

Mark

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 10:32 am:

OTIS HATES HIS ALBUM{HOUSE PARTY}BUT THE TEMPS ARE SO TALENTED THAT THEY COULD MAKE ALMOST ANYTHING SOUND GOOD,THOSE OF YOU WITH THE ALBUM LISTEN TO {WAY OF A GROWNUP MAN}IT'S A FOLK SONG BUT WITH THE MOTOWN TOUCH IT NOT HALF BAD.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 12:18 pm:

IN THE CASE OF THE DRIFTERS{THERE GOES MY BABY}THE PRESIDENT OF ATLANTIC CALLED IT A WASTED SESSION WITH THE TEMPANI BEING OUT OF TUNE,BUT THEY RELEASED IT AND WELL IT KINDA,SORTA SOLD SOME COPIES.