By Clay (66.73.217.250) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 04:28 am:

Heads Up!!!!
Mary Wilson is back in Detroit recording a new CD with Producer Richard Davis? At a very well known studio in East Detroit. I wish Mary all the best with her new project and it's good to show that real MOTOWN artist don't quit they only get better with time. Peace

By John Lester (213.123.121.235) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 07:11 am:

I wish her well

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 09:47 am:

Clay,
That's great news. Maybe it's the beginning of a new trend.

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:07 am:

WAY TO GO MARY!

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:14 pm:

According to her recent radio interview, this new CD will be marketed by commercial means!

By Vonnie (64.12.104.43) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:20 pm:

Mary, I wish you all the best, YOU DESERVE IT.

By Nish (170.224.224.134) on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 07:06 pm:

YEAH MARY WILSON!!!!! This is splendid news to hear, thanks for the heads up, Mr. McMurray!

By Ollie (64.152.164.226) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

I just interviewed Mary Wilson and she said that she would not be aiming for the "top ten" market, but more towards the "easy listening" market, which is huge.

Mary has really learned how to sing! Plus, she is being booked into top venues and seems to work as much as she wants. What a come back from behind! Most "background singers" just disappear or go into another line of work, not Mary. Her fame was just as great as Diana's and Flo's and all three were world reknowned, so I suppose it was easier for her. But it took years for Wilson to get her confidence back as a solo performer. Berry Gordy reportedly once said to her, "Mary, you can't sing!" Can you imagine saying that to a Supreme?

Famed agent, John Levy once told Jean DuShon that she would never be an actress. She proved him wrong, too, and had leading roles in many off-Broadway productions and starred in three major Broadway hits.

I will buy Mary's CD when it comes out, it was delightful speaking with her.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

Yes, I agree. Mary sings quite well the "easy listening" songs. I was very pleased with her voice and style.

By Nish (170.224.224.134) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 10:14 pm:

I would buy a Mary Wilson CD, she's a great singer, fantastic, and her smoky voice would do wonders on some of those torch songs like "The Man I Love" or something along those lines. Hopefully this announcement is just the start of a groovy year for her and her fans.

By Edgar (200.46.133.221) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 10:26 pm:

I agree about the easy listening stuff, but I believe that -in a way- she was forced into that mold since the Motown days, as the one to handle the ballads... when she and Flo were the true soulful rockers! Though I think that "Love Talk" and "You Danced My Heart Around the Stars" are great, I prefer and love the Mary Wilson of "Green River", "Early Morning Love", "Walk the Line", "Don't Get Mad, Get Even", "Turn Around", "U", "Under Any Moon", "Bodyguard", "The Stare", "A Little Bit of Love" (a duet with Clas Yngström, produced by Pete Brown from Cream), "You Make Me Feel So Good"...

By Vickie (205.188.199.184) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 11:31 pm:

Congrats to Mary,
I look forward to a new CD.

Vickie

By John Lester (217.40.231.105) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 02:11 am:

Bobby

Have you heard Mary sing "I don't wanna lose you" on the High Energy LP....I have to say it was on a par with the Spinners, cos the girl knocked me for 6 on that one.

I suspect I shall have Ritchie on my back now!! LOL

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 11:20 am:

YOU GO, MARY!!!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Tony Russi (68.18.227.123) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 11:38 am:

Its great news, and by "easy Listening" I think is the same format called "Adult Contemporary"today which would be the correct market to aim at.Best of Luck to Mary Wilson!

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 01:11 pm:

Clay:

What incredible news!! I have always felt Mary was great live and if any producer could capture that feel, magic would happen. Live she sings things such as songs as Piano in the Dark, Sting's Fields of Gold, I Will Survive, and She Works Hard for the Money, and brings the house down. I think a good producer could work wonders. I love her singing Touch, I Keep it Hid, Floy Joy, Early Morning Love, Where Is It I Belong, on Supremes' albums. I think melodic Sade sounding material could put her back on the charts. Or a funky rhthym uptempo that has a retro sound.

You know, the thing that always strikes me is the good will this lady engenders when you mention her name, whether on a site such as this, or in person. It is obvious she is greatly loved and has a good reputation. The only bad things I have ever seen were written by "rabid" Diana fans, which is to be expected. I emailed Mary and told her about this forum and am trying to get her to come aboard. She would have great stories of Motown from the singers perspective.

By the way, I am going to her 10:30 show Friday night at BB King's. I hope you Souldetroit New Yorkers will be there.

Question: Didn't Richard Davis produce Martha Reeves?
Michael

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 01:25 pm:

Michael,
How great it woud be if you could talk Mary into visiting the forum. Tell her there is a whole ton of people here that absolutely adore her.

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 06:20 pm:

I wanna go to BB Kings's, too!! Don't nobody care 'bout little ol' me?

By shawn1 (65.58.54.28) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 08:17 pm:

I have always LOVED Mary's voice since I heard "Baby Don't Go" on the Meet The Supremes Album .Berry Gordy told me himself that he didn't mean that that Mary couldn't sing because if thats how he felt Mary would not have been a Supreme are got leads in shows .But Mary partied a lot and sometimes her voice wasn't always at it's best .He also said that the real show in the Supremes was Diana and Mary they stood out .I can't wait to her Mary's new cd !Shawn

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:29 am:

Promises Kept:

LOL!!!!


Shawn1

From what I understand, all the girls partied, my friend. LOL!! But possibly it may have had more effect on Mary's voice (although I am not sure how much that would effect her being recorded, if Gordy truly wanted to record her). I don't think anyone in their right mind would begrudge Diana's leads, look at the track record, 12 #1 hits as a Supreme. Gordy, HDH, and others knew exactly what they were doing and who their audience was. There are fans who hear Mary solo and are shocked by the voice she posseses, and in hindsight wish she had been featured more.
Michael

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:33 am:

Encouraging news ! - my best wishes to a very
classy lady.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:35 am:

Cleo - I was shocked by Mary's voice. She should have been featured as a solo at Motown like Kim Weston, Tammi or Mary Wells. It seems BG didn't like having female solo artist. For some reason they all went away.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:37 am:

Hey Sis:
Does that "reason" have a name?
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Eli (151.197.41.76) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:53 am:

Vonnie and I were delighted to see and hear Mary sing at the sitsom premiere in NYC. She has a marvelous voice and great prescence on stage.
Her time is overdue.

Eli

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:03 pm:

For those of you who may doubt Mary's ability to sing (and there are some who do) and have not been able to hear her live (a treat), I would suggest going through your old lps and CDs and take a re-listen to:

Falling in Love with Love�Rodgers and Heart Album
Come and Get These Memories�Supremes A Go-Go
Can Take My Eyes Off Of You�Diana Ross and the Supremes Hollywood Palace version
Touch lead duet with Jean�Touch
Automatically Sunshine & Floy Joy (lead duets with Jean)�Floy Joy
Early Morning Love (this could have been a hit)�Supremes 1975 album
He's My Man (lead with Scherrie Payne�Supremes 1975 album
I Keep It Hid�Jimmy Webb Album

Mary had/has a smokey, sexy, sound no matter what the arrangement or style and it is instinctively distinctive, something that cannot be said for a lot of people.

Of course, this is beating a dead horse. Mary Wilson has become more famous than most who sang ooos and aaahs in the background. She was part of something that people are still writing about 33 years later. It is simply there are those of us who imagine what might have happened had the powers that be been confident enough to do what the management of Destiny's Child has done. Michelle Williams has her own gospel album out and was nominated for a Dove Award. Kelly Rowland will most likely win a Grammy this year on her own, and she is still part of the group. It will only make Destiny's Child stronger.

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:53 pm:

Add to the mix her stellar vocal on "A Heart Like Mine." BEAUTIFUL.

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

Don't forget her most recent release of "Can We Love Again".........hope she incorporates some of this material in her upcoming BB Kings show!

By Edgar (200.46.12.153) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

And...
"Baby Don't Go" - from "Meet the Supremes"
"Sunset" and "It Makes No Difference Now" - from "Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop"
"Where Is It I Belong", "You Turn Me Around" and "This Is Why I Believe In You" - from "The Supremes" (1975)
"Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You", "Till the Boat Sails Away", "I Don't Want To Lose You" and the duet with Scherrie "You're What's Missing In My Life" - from "High Energy"
"We Should Be Closer Together" and "You Are the Heart of Me" - from "Mary, Scherrie & Susaye".
Her albums "Mary Wilson" and "Walk the Line".

By Vince Tarsitano (64.12.104.46) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 08:11 pm:

Mary Wilson is one of the best live performers I have ever seen----a true crowd pleaser. Being a vocalist myself, and having worked in Atlantic City for many years, I have seen many of th greats and have good credentials for judging talent. And, Mary Wilson can stabnd proudly with the best of them. Her voice is so strong and sexy, and adaptable to many different styles. She has impeccable taste in selection of material. I wish her the very best in this recording venture. She is poised for BIG success.

By David Meikle (213.122.38.144) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:33 am:

Thanks Vince.

Stay tuned.

David

By John Lester (217.40.206.27) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:52 am:

Promises...did I miss you saying about Mary singing the line

"..your real name may be Smith or Jones..." Now where do I know that line from!

he he

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 10:29 am:

Anyone going to see Mary Friday, I will be dressed all in black. Sort of like the Black Johnny Cash! LOL!! I am going to the second show. If you think it may be me, say hello. Be forewarned BB King's has a goon that stands at the entrance to the dressing rooms and he is very tough about letting people back to see the performers. I could not get back to see Mary the last time she was there, and I know her.

Those of you who have never seen her live, do yourself a favor and go. She has put on a bit of weight (who hasn't) but still looks Supreme and does a class show.

By MotownFan (208.4.27.140) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 01:49 pm:

"Berry Gordy told me himself that he didn't mean that that Mary couldn't sing because if thats how he felt Mary would not have been a Supreme are got leads in shows .But Mary partied a lot and sometimes her voice wasn't always at it's best .He also said that the real show in the Supremes was Diana and Mary they stood out .I can't wait to her Mary's new cd !Shawn"

I think this says a lot about Gordy. To this day he still hates Florence Ballard and it's apparent that he did from the start. All of us fans of the original Supremes are well aware that all of them had that special something and together it was magic. I remember reading an interview by Flo in which she said around that first 1965 Copa gig she started to feel shunned and unwanted, which explains some of her acting out. Can you imagine being with a group of people who really did'nt want you around. The fact that she lasted in the Supremes as long as she did says a lot about her charater. I know a lot of young girls would have folded and threw in the towel from the start.

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 01:57 pm:

MotownFan:

I agree with you my friend. The story about Florence's solo on "People" being removed from the Copa engagement the nights the live recording was made because of the tantrums La Ross threw, is legendary. Things went downhill for Florence from there. Florence knew exactly where Gordy's true interest lay. In spite of these problems, the ladies went on to even greater accomplishments. I think rather than rehashing these stories, we should relish the extraordinary impact the THREE ladies had/have and support them in during their present careers and problems. I for one would not be in the business if it were not for the Supremes.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 02:03 pm:

I do wish Mary well in her career.

Diana's friends threw a party for her the other day; so she has her own support system for her problems, although she didn't show for the party. I wasn't invited. I supported Diana in the 60's by buying the Supremes records. I will purchase Mary's recordings.

By stephanie (199.183.170.212) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 02:08 pm:

MotownFan:

I agree with you my friend. The story about Florence's solo on "People" being removed from the Copa engagement the nights the live recording was made because of the tantrums La Ross threw, is legendary. Things went downhill for Florence from there. Florence knew exactly where Gordy's true interest lay. In spite of these problems, the ladies went on to even greater accomplishments. I think rather than rehashing these stories, we should relish the extraordinary impact the THREE ladies had/have and support them in during their present careers and problems. I for one would not be in the business if it were not for the Supremes. >>>>

Cleo and Motown fan,
You dont know the number of people I have talked to who said those tantrums Ross threw are stories and are not true...LOL!!! Anyway I will always love the three original Supremes and the ones who came later. I remember Mary Wilson saying that some critics said the Supremes were a revolving door but hey the Temps had a heck of lot more personnel changes than the Supremes did. The difference with the Temps is their replacements all for the most part sounded like the original crew. I think if Berry had supported these women more when Diana left they would have stayed on top. I wish Jean Terrell could have stayed I mean they had 4 million sellers with her at the helm and Mary had a million seller with her voice on Floy Joy. If Frank Wilson didnt leave Motown I think they would have had more million sellers and hopefully higher charting albums. Mary Wilson is a warm and kind individual and she knows how to make her fans feel good I hope everyone has a good time when they go to see Mary.
Stephanie

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:13 pm:

Stephanie:

Yes, there is great argument about these "tantrums" but usually among fans. There is agreement among a lot of the Motown people who were around at the time. I once was listening to a radio program with the great Martha Reeves and Rhonda Ross was appearing at a club in New York (I believe it was Tatou). Martha (who takes no prisoners) was telling a Diana tantrum story when Rhonda became a little upset and protested. Martha, as only she can do said, "Listen honey, you weren't there, I was, and your mother threw tantrums." I took that to be the final word. LOL!! Rhonda, who is a sweetheart took it all very well.

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

Stephanie:

I mean to say "Rhonda Ross WHO was appearing at a club"

sorry.

By motownboy (12.158.230.250) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 05:00 pm:

Stephanie,

There was a radio show with Martha Reeves and Rhonda Ross on together?? Do elaborate, please!!

By MOTOWNBOYmot606 (12.158.230.250) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 05:02 pm:

Sorry! that was meant for CleoHarvey:

There was a radio show with Martha Reeves and Rhonda Ross on together?? Do elaborate, please!!

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 05:21 pm:

Yes there was. It was in New York and during the time that Rhonda was making her debut as a jazz singer at a club in New York (either the Red Parrot or Tatou) and she was publicizing her appearance. If my memory serves me, Ashford & Simpson were the hosts of the show. Martha was also on the radio show and if I am not mistaken it was because of she and the Vandellas induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I believe the show was on WBLS. I apologize for not remembering the show details, but I distinctly remember the exchange. Martha started off by telling a story of how Diana would stand in the wings during the Motortown revues and watch the movements that she was doing and then when it was The Supremes turn to go on, Diana would be doing what she had seen Martha do. Oh well, this is old news.

By the way, I have met Rhonda several times over the years and she is a warm, delightful woman. Proving that no matter what anyone says about Queen Bee she was/is a wonderful mother. And what could be a better sign of success!

By Vandelron (205.188.209.38) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 11:50 pm:

Let us not forget that Eddie Holland wanted Mary to sing lead on Where Did Our Love Go and I dont doubt at all that Mary or Gladys Horton who it was originally intended for could have taken it to #1. I live in the same town as Diana and heard froma reliable source that she berated a teenage cashier in a store here. Lets not kid ourselves(I love Martha's response to Rhonda). Hopefully Diana will grow and evolve in her recovery and see we are all equals and deserve respect. She has been very blessed considering her voice and tempemanent to get as far as she has-yes she is very talented in being able to make the most of what she has and she is a charismatic performer and yes she has benefited from her drive and especially HDH.

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 11:14 am:

I've had a few e-mails from friends who attended Mary's most recent BB King's Show.....apparently Mary gave no mention to the recently released 70s Anthology (which she helped produce) and performed no songs from the 2-cd set. Not very smart, Mary honey..........

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:31 pm:

Promises Kept:

Despite the fact that Mary did not mention the 70's Anthology (not a fatal flaw), she was in incredible form. I have seen her many times over the years and this was one of her best efforts (in spite of sound problems that visibly annoyed her). Looking absolutely beautiful (she has taken off some of the lbs she had put on) she had the audience on its feet several times during her set (I was at the 10:30 show). She was warm, funny, delightful and in great voice. An example of her humor: "You know I was in Detroit last week with Martha Reeves and that doll dragged me to every dive in Detroit. You know that girl is crazy." The audience broke up. Also during the second of three wig changes, she came out in a blonde wig and said, "Remember you'll, I was wearing blonde hair before Beyonce or Tina or any of those dolls, remember TCB." The audience again broke up again.

Many patrons who appeared to be seeing her live for the first time, were stunned by her vocal abilities and I could hear many comments to that effect as I was leaving. Her versions of I Walk the Line, Coming Out of the Dark, Brown Sugar, Piano in the Dark, I Am Changing from Dreamgirls, where she remarked, "they say this show is about the Supremes, but I ain't seen no royalties yet!!" were wonderful. The band and back-up singers were hot. Her versions of The Supremes hits are not recycles but funky, hot arrangements, giving a sense of the original but tailored to Mary's abilities. The lady knows how to put on a show and she seems very happy. It is great to see her surviving. Now, truthfully I am partial to this lovely woman but she HAS given the occasional bad show over the years. However, this one was "smokin."

She did mention recording in Detroit and said that we should be seeing a CD very soon. I believe this is what Clay is referring to in beginning of this thread. Let's all wish her luck. It would be nice to see her get a hit no matter how big.

By Ollie (63.210.220.12) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 06:59 pm:

Berry Gordy once told Mary Wilson, "Oh, Mary, you can't sing!" I believe I read that in her book. This shocked Mary into a shell that she couldn't shake off even when she had the opportunity to take the lead in the Supremes. She didn't have the confidence.

When I interviewed her before her B. B. King appearance, she talked about it. Just think, all of those years singing in the background with all that talent! For shame! Mary is a marvellous singer (one that I prefer over Diana Ross and a lot of others). MY OPINION, ROSS FANS.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Ollie:
As our dear moderator Ralph would say -"You're preaching to the choir." I have always maintained that Mary had a great voice as did Florence. As a child I remember seeing Mary sing Frankie Valli's "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" on ABC'S Hollywood Palace (fall 1969) and she was marvelous (I later bought the soundtrack LP when I was in grade school). When I met Mary in 1992 I was impressed with her (now sadly out of print) CD "Walk The Line" - her voice has held up mighty fine over the years. Finally, when she sang "You Can't Hurry Love" with the Funk Bros. at the Apollo Theatre premiere of SITSOM, believe me when I say that MISS ROSS WAS NOT MISSED! Mary sounded fabulous! So believe me we Supremes fans here at S.D. all agree (to an extent) that Mary has the goods.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 12:18 am:

Sorry Cleo.....that's not my point at all! I've been to BB King's to see Mary....you are right! She is stunning both visually and vocally....but it's the Fans that supported the 70s Supremes to a fault!! We pushed and pushed for this release. And Mary has really snubbed it since it's release. Oh yes, she wanted to be a part of its production....I'm sure of that! But this is a true slap in the face after all the care and devotion that went into this unlikely Anthology without Ross. Once again, it's us Fans that have to do all the promotion. The only reason she is recording is to justify her continuing presence in the entertainment world. This work will never come close to her popularity in the 70s group. At her age she better capitalize on that BIG TIME. And I still Love you, Cleo.....you tease!!

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 12:28 am:

We don't know what type of contract she has with the record company. It may not be her job to promote the CD. I'm sure the company has taken care of the promotions. Mary may have done all that is required by the Company. It's time for her to concentrate on herself, her own recordings, and performances.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 12:29 am:

I thought she couldn't use the name "Supremes." If that is the case, why should she stress herself out promoting the cd. Does she get royalties?

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 01:23 am:

It's her "Good Manners Duty" to acknowledge a release on Mary Wilson of Supreme fame! You bet she gets royalties! This is clearly stated in her books. She can focus on other projects surely....but don't forget those who helped you to get to those projects. Harry Weinger stated that there was no budget set aside for promotion. So just who was going to carry this? Mary and her devoted Fans.....perhaps it's time to snub Mary for a bit and just see where "the buzz" would possibly come from!

By stephanie (64.157.186.97) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 10:33 am:

Promises
I dont know what Mary's rationale was but I TOO am shocked she has not been promoting that 70s anthology. If she mentioned it at her concerts and sang a couple of songs I think it would sell like wildfire!!!! She usually has minimum 500 people at her shows and concerts I would think she would mention it to them. I dont think she needs to HAWK the CD but man Harry and all of these people and Andy and others worked so hard on it I would think that she would at least say something about it.
I love Mary dearly and I think she is a true survivor in the business if it were me I would make sure everyone knew about that CD. Its so GOOD. Not just the fact that its the 70s Supremes who deserve their just due...
Stephanie

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:14 am:

Promises Kept & Stephanie:

The last thing I wanted to do was cause an argument. I simply believe we as fans and observers come down very hard on the objects of our affection without knowing the real deal. I was on several forums during the RTL disaster and was shocked by how hard people were on Diana and Mary without TRULY knowing what went down. I know that there were people who worked very hard on the Supremes 70's Anthology and all of you deserve our undying gratitude. And of course, it should be promoted to the heights. The show I saw, Mary was very distracted by the sound and I thought she simply forgot to mention it. I did not see or feel that there was anything untoward or there was an agenda in her not mentioning the album. Via email I have discussed the Anthology with Mary and there is no doubt that she is extremely proud of it because it establishes that The Supremes survived and continued post Diana.

The relationship between Motown and Mary Wilson has been civil at best over the last 15 years. She has friends at Motown who are her champions but others who are not. We simply do not know what is going on and Mary does not like to discuss it. She is not a person who likes to be ugly or negative about anything. Those of you who have met and talked to her know that. I just want to give this lovely woman the benefit of the doubt.

Again, I am not trying to keep an argument going. I love you guys, the forum and the great posts. Simply, it would be better to ask her why she didn't mention the CD and hear her answer and reason. If I get a chance, I will ask her. We may be surprised by her response.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:43 am:

Folks:
If I may clear the air regarding artists promoting their reissued work, being a reissue producer & liner note writer myself. I also have colleagues who work with Mary (outside of Motown).

To answer Sis' question - yes, Mary does receive royalties from her reissued Supremes recordings. Many classic recording artists (or their estates if they are deceased) receive royalties from reissued recordings. For example, one of Brunswick Records' first CD reissues they did (after the label was reactivated in 1995) was a Greatest Hits collection for Barbara Acklin so that she would receive royalties from the sales.

Now the next question - why do some artists promote their reissues and others don't? Budgetary reasons do come into play here. If there was no budget to promote the recording, the artist is gonna think, "Hell, why should I break my back promoting this if the label won't." Whereas if the label at least takes out a advertisement in a trade or lifestyle magazine and service the CD to radio, the artist is gonna feel more inclined to participate as well. I can tell you that the Supremes Anthology CD has been advertised in at least three magazines I had seen (including Billboard) and I heard tracks from the CD on Felix Hernandez' Rhythm Revue (a classic soul radio show I HIGHLY recommend to any reissue label dealing with classic R&B). So to say there was "no promotion" for the Supremes Anthology is inaccurate.

The second reason why Mary may not have promoted the CD or even sang a few songs from the disc is the same reason why we go to concerts and only hear "the hits". These folks feel that the majority of their audience want to hear what charted on the Billboard Hot 100 between #1 and #5 because that's all they are familiar with. If they perform a song that doesn't fall into that criteria (unless it's a new track from a new album they have out)the artist fears they may lose the audience. I know not all recording acts feel that way (the Rolling Stones were known for singing album-only songs & Motown tunes in their concerts alongside the hits), but Mary's case may be different.

I did speak to an attorney/colleague who represents Mary and he will bring the Anthology concern to her attention.

Hope this helps....

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

Well Mary, whatever your decision, I go along with you 100%. Keep up the good work.

By stephanie (206.214.2.48) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:15 pm:

Cleoharvey
wrote
The last thing I wanted to do was cause an argument. I simply believe we as fans and observers come down very hard on the objects of our affection without knowing the real deal.>>>

You are right and we as fans have to remember that there are legalities that go on and the reason why things happen may not necessary be under the control of the artist it may be management or other factors that we know nothing about. When it came to RTL I always suspected that there were other factors that are really none of our business.
Steph

By Edgar (200.46.132.9) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 08:29 pm:

Hey, Clay created this thread to celebrate the future release of a new Mary Wilson recording...

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 12:31 am:

Oh I did't think any of us were really arguing......just discussing the Supremes as usual. I'm glad all you sports posted! I'm just a bit excitedly "miffed". The Fans promoted this release and Harry & Andy & All worked hard. I was just hoping for some bonafide support from Mary. Thanks to all the other 70 Supremes who graciously donated their time to sign CDs and share their memorable thoughts concerning those years with waiting Fans and their hard earned money.

By John Lester (213.123.137.129) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 01:47 am:

Let is not forget that Mary also worked on the 70's Anthology CD

By Andy Skurow (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:25 am:

I think it's important to not read too much into this topic. Mary Wilson's contributions to the 70s Anthology were wonderful. Because Mary did not perform or mention the compilation at BB King's doesn't necessarily mean it was a snub.

Mary's set, only on occasion, includes a 70s song (usually Bad Weather or River Deep Mountain High). Remember, there were two shows that night, and when Mary does one show, she extends out the concert quite a bit to include many songs she does not perform on a "two show" night.

Mary does a great show, so if anyone has the opportunity, be sure to see it. And hey, if you do want her to do a particular song, you can always ask. I've seen her take requests on the spot. Props to Mary.

By Ollie (64.152.173.212) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:39 am:

To show what a big person Mary Wilson is, she, and she ALONE, shows up at the honors that are bestowed upon the Supremes. Diana Ross never shows. Walk of Fame in Hollywood, Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame when the Supremes were inducted, the postage stamp honoring the girl groups, and now the R & B Foundation's tribute to The Supremes this month - Mary Wilson will be there, along with Florence Ballard's daughters, to accept. No Ross. What does that say about Diana Ross? I'm not bashing Diana, but I would think that she would cherish that "original dream" enough to honor it.

Ross still includes a Supremes medley in her act, but doesn't care to attend any tributes. From JET Magazine, Ross stated on 20/20: "I basically, in my heart, know that it would be very hard for me to work with her (Mary) on stage." I can understand that, actually. Mary is no longer a background singer. She is, like Ross, a headliner now. Do you think that Diana would have the nerve to ask Wilson to return to the background? That would, in reality, be career suicide for Mary.

Perhaps it's Mary's book accounts of the Supremes' history that still bothers Ross. According to Mary, she just told the truth about what happened, according to the entries she kept, daily, in her diary.

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 04:18 pm:

To all:

I have related this story on another thread, but Mary is extremely fond of Diana and gets very angry when anyone in her earshot starts to "Diana Bash." I learned this in spades when one day I was feeling my oats with her and made a comment about how Diana treated her at the Motown 25th Anniversary. Mary got angry (as angry as she could get) and said, "Listen, you don't know her like I do. No one knows her like I do. She doesn't mean to do these things. She is dealing with a lot of things that no one is aware of (this is paraphrased). I never made the mistake of saying negative things about Diana again in her presence.

I believe Ollie is correct. A lot of people thought Mary was taking vicious potshots at Diana in her books when in actuality she was telling her story the way she saw the Supremes history develop. She cares deeply for Diana and maybe understands things that we don't. The Return to Love Tour fiasco was not about money or ugliness between Diana and Mary, but more about Mary feeling that she was being expunged from the record books, that anyone could replace her in the Supremes. Even with THAT being said, she still will not let anyone say bad about Diana in her presence. She is a classy lady!

By stephanie (207.221.193.245) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

To show what a big person Mary Wilson is, she, and she ALONE, shows up at the honors that are bestowed upon the Supremes. Diana Ross never shows. Walk of Fame in Hollywood, Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame when the Supremes were inducted, the postage stamp honoring the girl groups, and now the R & B Foundation's tribute to The Supremes this month - Mary Wilson will be there, along with Florence Ballard's daughters>>>>>

You know I have always wondered about this and if its an award to honor DIANA she shows up!!! Maybe she doesnt want to be there because Mary is there who knows. I heard a lot of people say that Diana didnt show up for the Star on the Walk of Fame because she said she didnt want to take any attention away from Mary and that was her day (I find that to be a lame excuse but believable)
When she (Ross) didnt show up for the Induction of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame awards I was shocked!!!!!!! And McCartney didnt show up because he was mad at Yoko Ono or something like that.

If any of you know about the feud and what happened with Creedence Clearwater and John Fogerty Im SHOCKED John showed up to perform with them and from all accounts he cant stand these guys and wont speak to them. If you know the story then I guess you know why if you dont I can post it here. If Fogerty can show up then Ross has no excuse. She is not fighting anyone over royalties and if she couldnt come she could have had a video sent in or something. I was so embarassed for Mary when Diana was not there it would make one suspect that there was a riff between them. Im sure Diana has her reasons but she really should have been at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame I mean that is like the highest honor a musician or singer can receive. People come there in wheelchairs Ross could have come.
Stephanie

By Vandelron (152.163.213.46) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 11:21 pm:

Well said Cleo and Ollie. When I saw Mary the summer of RTL and some people yelled "Diana who?"after Mary knocked the place out on a particular song, she chastised them, saying"No there were 3 of us..."Actually I thought it was just a compliment to Mary and not really a Diana dig-just a validation of Mary, but obviously she is very protective of Diana and sensitive about it all. What a lady!What a heart...and right after being excluded from RTL!! If Diana could rise to it/was up for it with her recovery, what a great opportunity to start anew by attending the R and B Hall of Fame awards--and what great publicity!

By Vickie (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 11:47 pm:

Some sort of re-union soon would be very nice, perhaps a baby step to something bigger. Those ladies love each other...I hope they some how walk on stage together , somehow, someway, somewhere..
In the meantime I am glad Mary is doing so well.

Keeping my fingers crossed..

Vickie

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 12:00 am:

Probably the biggest mistake Mary has made (in recent history, LOL) is NOT doing RTL. After all, she WAS asked and Mary can't buy or earn THAT kind of publicity by herself. Even if Mary and whatever else Supreme were relegated to the back, it still would have proven a HUGE publicity run and prospects for bigger and better venues for Mary. Hindsight is always great, but Mary has had many a year to plan for the day that she might reunite with Diana. I get a kick out of Mary stating that in the old days, Mary earned a third! That was way before Diana Ross was really DIANA ROSS!! Nona Hendryx should ask for a third, too! LOL

By Vickie (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 12:11 am:

It gave Mary some leverage to pass on that tour...
The fans spoke, and we want all 3 of them....
Diana , Mary & Cindy heard the fans loud and clear I think..

Still keeping my fingers crossed

Vickie

By Promises Kept (12.227.139.195) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:40 am:

Yes Vickie...it would be simply wonderful! I remember finally reading in USA Today that Ross would tour with S & S for the Supremes gig and I was estatic! I never thought Diane and Mary would get together....Cindy wasn't in any shape to perform....Jean is done with "that"...Susaye has better things to do....this was our best chance. And hey, this was just a different line-up...DSL...and they were all Supremes!

By john dixon (63.101.17.207) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 06:38 am:

Stephanie, re: John Fogerty/CCR--you're talking some world class rancour there! At the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame induction ceremonies, John DID share the podium with his former bandmates to accept their little statuette or whatever but refused to perform with them during the "jam" session. Doug Cook and Stu Clifford were in the audience when John began to perform a couple of Creedence songs with Bruce Springsteen and an "all star" band and, humiliated by their exclusion, stormed out of the hall. Thank goodness Mary and Diana haven't gotten quite that estranged and petty in dealing with their common legacy.

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:24 am:

To all:

I see that the RTL fiasco still engenders a lot of strong opinions. It shows how valuable these ladies are to a lot of people. I would love to see a "real" tour happen. No matter what we say, the public has clearly spoken about which group of Supremes they want to see. I saw Cindy in December and she has lost weight and looks fantastic (she is another person who is a sweetie and a lady). Mary looked divine at BB King's, so who knows. I doubt that it will every happen, but we can all dream can't we. Possibly, it might be just the thing to pull Diana out of her problems

So, let's return to the point of Clay's original post and wish Mary luck with her recording in Detroit. She DID mention that at BB King's. LOL!!!

By stephanie (67.249.194.33) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:59 am:

Stephanie, re: John Fogerty/CCR--you're talking some world class rancour there! At the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame induction ceremonies, John DID share the podium with his former bandmates to accept their little statuette or whatever but refused to perform with them during the "jam" session. Doug Cook and Stu Clifford were in the audience when John began to perform a couple of Creedence songs with Bruce Springsteen and an "all star" band and, humiliated by their exclusion, stormed out of the hall. Thank goodness Mary and Diana haven't gotten quite that estranged and petty in dealing with their common legacy. >>>>>>

John
My hat goes off to Mary Wilson for showing up at these things (its good publicity for her) and I hope her CD does well. I have to tell you and I will make it short since it s a Mary Wilson thread. When those guys outvoted Fogarty to have Fantasy records own the right to the stuff that Fogarty and the band wrote I thought he would never step foot in another room with those guys.
It took Fogarty YEARS to get the masters back to those tapes!!!! I never heard him bad mouth the guys but I used to read in music periodicals that they didnt speak and I never knew why until I read one of the other guys being interviewed. Man if I wrote all of that stuff and Im sure Fantasy offered them a good penny but John knew those songs were good and the group outvoted me to let Fantasy keep the rights when we wrote the stuff and he was the principal leader!!! It says a lot that he even showed up...
Steph

By MotownForever (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

After hearing about Cindy's weight loss, a friend of mine believes that means there is a possibility of a "real reunion" w/ Diana, Mary & Cindy. It's a wonderful thought, and I would love nothing more, but I doubt it. For whatever her reasons are, I don't think Diana wants to share a stage w/ Mary ever again (sob!). Then again, considering the recent events w/ Ross, she just may have a change of heart. Who knows - stranger things have happened.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:00 pm:

Folks:
I honestly would rather see Mary, Cindy & Jean Terrell reunite than with Diana Ross. That alone would make me a happy camper in the Supremes fan club.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:10 pm:

KevGo:

My friend, any reunion wth Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong in the mix would make me happy, no matter whether Jean or Diana leads. I would buy the first ticket. There is something about Mary and Cindy together that lends "supreme" class to the configuration. Having met both, I dearly love them.

Hope all is going well!

Michael

By stephanie (199.183.163.56) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 08:02 pm:

I wouldnt care if Diana and Mary and Cindy were in wheelchairs I would STILL come to see them in the OLD FOLKS home if we have to wait that long!!
Look when Mary got into her car accident Mary said Diana called her to see how she was doing. Im sure that these two are getting cards and letters every week for them to get back together.

I have heard some say it would be career suicide for Mary to sing backup behind Diana again I think that is far from the truth. Mary would have so much publicity and Cindy would be in the mix and in the money again and Ross would have a new public image. Its a win win situation for everyone involved. If the public knew that the original Supremes (SANS Flo) were getting back together Man you would see people buying tickets.
The PR would be Ross Reunites with partners and redeems herself!!!

Wilson and Ross bury the hatchet!!!
A Supreme Miracle!!!
Call Her Miss Ross and the Supreme Supremes!!
Is it really happenint this time?
The possibilities are endless..
Stephanie

By shawn1 (65.57.31.204) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 08:27 pm:

I have to say that Mary really didn't miss out on anything by turning down RTL .Mary is pretty well to do although the money was have helped it wasn't needed and Mary did go on that summer to make money on the road as she pretty much has since the split of the Supremes .Honey try to tell Rosser that Wilson did not bad mouth Ross is like saying God kissed me on the cheek unless you say Ross walks on water you've mistreated Ross .That being said I think Ross and Wilson have a true love for each that a lot of things have gotten the way of .Shawn

By shawn1 (65.57.31.204) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 08:30 pm:

About Mary and The 70's Supremes Anthology I am thinking the maybe since Motown is doing NO PROMOTION of the cd why should Mary bother .That might be the way she's feeling right now .It's kinda sad that Motown these things out and just lets them die .Martha Reeves and The Vandellas Boxed Set sold 250,000 copies at $35.00 a piece from Martha and Girls doing two are three tv show doesn't take much !Shawn

By stephanie (199.183.163.198) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:26 pm:

I didnt know Livewire the Singles sold that many copies!!! Im glad to hear that..
Steph

By shawn1 (64.154.124.149) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:32 am:

Yep it did !Shawn

By Vandelron (152.163.206.176) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 07:13 pm:

Does anyone know how many copies latest Supremes anthology has sold?

By cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 04:17 pm:

Shawn1:

You are right about Mary being well off. Although she does not have the money that Diana does, she is not hurting. A lot of people don't know that Mary received a large settlement from the State of California for the accident that caused the loss of her son Raffi. Of course, no amount of money could assuage the pain Mary feels at the loss of her son, however the money took Mary out of the arena of having to work all the time and scrambling to pay bills. She does quite well financially and did not need the RTL tour. There are those who still do not understand that fact.