By Clyde (167.167.44.218) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 12:36 am:

Thought I'd have some fun here! :-)

To me the thought of funky music resonates early with a guy named James Brown. Or shall I say his band.

I have always associated funk with a that type of syncopated rhythm interplay. Bass, drums, guitar usually set it up. Then with a catchy horn line they had it.

"Cold sweat"
"I Got The Feelin"
......I mean c'mon can it get ANY funkier!

Even though a lot of bands throughout the years use of the title of funky, to me JB started it.
Later AWB approached and then of course Tower of Power with Rocco, Garibaldi, Chester Thompson and
Bruce Conti with flawless horns took this whole funk thing to another level.

What do you folks think?

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 01:10 am:

I'M GONNA HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THIS ONE FOR A WHILE CLYDE...GET BACK TO YOU LATER...STU

By SteveS (68.41.251.33) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 05:58 am:

Clyde,

I think you've absolutely nailed it! If you had to pick 2 tunes to define funk you can't get much closer than those. As far as the "syncopated interplay" you mention, Got The Feeling has the most complex rhythmic structure I've ever heard in a pop tune yet it flows perfectly (anybody know what its time signature is?).

I've often suspected that Tower of Power was formed as a shrine to Got The Feeling, because that tune seems to influence almost everything they do. In particular, they often play against the 4/4 time using the Got The Feeling template - they do this a lot in the "rideouts" of their tunes - Don't Change Horses comes to mind but there are many other examples. If I'm not making sense here, get a copy of Got The Feeling and try and tap your foot and count 4 - it doesn't quite work, you have to keep "adjusting" the count!

Perhaps another question worth asking is what was the relationship between the Funk Bros and Funk? They weren't a funk band, but I would say that they added an element of swing and subtlety that had been missing, and they did it by playing funky on pop tunes, not by playing funk tunes. Of course, Jamerson deserves an enormous amount of credit for this, as there are so many Motown tunes that are fairly straightforward arrangements, but that he totally transforms into funky masterpieces (2 random examples - I'm Gonna Make You Love Me, You're All I Need to Get By).

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 07:02 am:

Funk to me is anything outside of a straight 4 beats to the bar rythym. these tunes usually follow a 16ths pattern. The 4 beats to the bar are not emphasised.But the time/space within one beat is usually busy and varied.
JB songs are perfect examples of funk.Rock bands usually play straight rythyms.Was Motown funk? not compared to James Brown, but far more funkier than their competitors of the day like the Beatles or the Beach Boys.
Let's not forget that Motown was quick to jump on the funk bandwagon anyway with the Norman Whitfield/temptations productions.
What i'd really like to know is where the word 'funk' originated from??

By HW (68.37.219.140) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 08:27 am:

What's the old Duke Ellington line - or was it Mr. Natural who said (and I'm paraphrasing)... "If you have ta ask, you'll never know."

The word 'funk' BTW is thought to have originated from an African Congo tribal word, "lu-fuki," meaning 'strong body odor'... more loosely translated as a powerful vibe, a feeling of community.

By John Lester (217.40.196.93) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 09:13 am:

.....and there ain't much our Mr W doesn't know about funk and JB!

lol


smile!!!

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.154) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 09:22 am:

Funk is ham hocks on your corn flakes.



Regards,
Ken

By Gabriele (212.171.164.216) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 09:42 am:

very interesting question...
good topic!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 10:06 am:

I agree Gabriele. Very good topic. My partner, who is black, credits James Brown as the true originator of modern Funk. Not that being black is the proper credential to verify such an assumption, but I feel he is as close as anyone with this particular thought.

By Gabriele (212.171.155.39) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 10:32 am:

its hard sometimes to tell about emotions,and music is above all emotions to me...its hard to say about the differences between styles...anyway,to me funk is a musical form having its roots in gospel,blues and jazz,taking and sharing from these styles big grooves, free harmonical conception and...big jamming!!!

Gabriele

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 11:11 am:

Watts 103'd street Rhythm band and of course James Browns" get down, get back, and get it on"band come to mind when I think of true funk.

One thing you can't dispute is it's black thing that some gifted musicians of other races have picked up on.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 11:37 am:

What is Funky or Funk?
It's James Brown, Bootsy Collins, George Clinton, Norman Whitfield, Maceo Parker, Fred Wesley, the JBs, Charles Wright & the Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band, Ohio Players, Curtis Mayfield (solo material), Lyn Collins, Sly & the Family Stone, Larry Graham $ Graham Central Station, Vickie Anderson, Bobby Byrd, Rick James, Earth Wind & Fire,Parliament/Funkadelic, MFSB, Booker T. & the MGs/Mar-Keys,the Funk Brothers,Mandrill, Zapp/Roger Troutman,Average White Band, Slave,Brass Construction,......
The list goes on...

Soulfully submitted,
Kevin "KevGo" Goins

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 12:16 pm:

GOOD GOD CLYDE...I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT...HIT ME...I CAN'T STAND IT...UHH...JAMES BROWN IS INDEED A "FUNKMASTER" IN THE TRUEST SENSE. HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN DISCOUNT THE "POLISHED FUNK" OF MOTOWN VERSUS THE "DOWN HOME FUNK" OF A JAMES BROWN. TO ME...JAMES BROWN'S FUNK STARTS AND ENDS WITH HIS "FATBACK DRUM" LICKS. BEYOND THAT, I CAN'T SAY THAT MACEO PARKER, FOR EXAMPLE, IS MORE "FUNKIFIED" THAN A JR. WALKER. LISTEN TO JOHNNY GRIFFITH ON "COOL JERK" FROM THE EARLY 60"S...AS FUNKY AS IT GETS. EARL "CHUNK OF FUNK" VAN DYKE...CAN'T GET MUCH FUNKIER THAN HIS PIANO LICKS EITHER, AND EDDIE WILLIS BROUGHT HIS MISSISSIPPI BRAND OF FUNK STRAIGHT TO HITSVILLE. TRUE FUNK HAS A CERTAIN SOUTHERN "DOWN HOME" ELEMENT TO IT, THUS, JAMES BROWNS MATERIAL BRINGS BACK HIS AUGUSTA, GA. ROOTS. MOST OF THE MOTOWN TRACKS HAD A CERTAIN SOPHISTICATION TO THEM, BUT THE FUNK ELEMENTS OF THE RHYTHM TRACKS PLACED A CERTAIN MEASURE OF FUNK INTO THE OTHERWISE STRAIGHT LACED VOCALS. THE LATER FUNK GROUPS...RUFUS, TOWER OF POWER, AND P-FUNK, ALL GREW OUT OF THE EARLY FUNK OF A JAMES BROWN AND THE WORK OF THE LEGENDS LIKE THE FUNK BROTHERS...HIT ME...AND "GIVE THE DRUMMER SOME"...STU

By TonyRussi (68.18.34.83) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 12:47 pm:

Without a doubt, James Brown is the Innovator. Others can be Funky but JB is the Originator...He is the Godfather...I think '64's "Out Of Sight" was the first recording of Pure Funk. George Clinton carried the Funk Banner in the late 70's but the key muscians (Bootsy,Chicken, Fred, Maceo,Kush ect.) came from JB.I Love Bobby Byrd and Vicki Anderson! As entertainers and role models and friends.

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.154) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 01:28 pm:

Kevgo,
The list goes on, but I would definitely add The Meters close to the top of it.

...and there's certainly nothing much funkier sounding than Stevie Wonder or Bernie Worrell's left hand on a clavinet. They put the "Key" in "fun-key". I understand that Bootsy put the "fun" in, though.

Regards,
Ken

By Jay (24.55.210.61) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 01:41 pm:

Great Topic!
Clyde may have struck a G9 chord here!!

The way I see it is ( and it became very clear to me in the SITSOM movie )that the Motown rhythm guitars, drums, vibes, tamborine, keyboards played their parts very straight. This left the "room" for Jamerson to do his thing. He played fills, He kicked in the intros etc... He in fact had excellent imagination and taste.

This formula if you will then set the table along with the "more funky" bands like JB to form bands like one-of-my-favorites: Rufus; a band who in my opinion was as funky as ANY of them.

As time moved on the bass at the center was supplanted by the kick drum and although the bass players were VERY good... (Hell they had each other's work to study from :-) the sound became much more "busy" with everyone playing licks. WaWa, phasers, effects, synthesizers all wanted and got their space.

But sometimes no matter what was played, the sound was NOT funky.
IMHO, MOST of JBs songs did not quite pull it off.

"Cold Sweat" and "I Got The Feelin" really defined a locked-in burnin funk. But it was not always easy for that band to pull it off on other tunes.
But boy did it inspire a lot of creative musicians!

I once heard a DJ on the Radio segue or splice the end of "Give It Up Turn Me Loose" by JB right into "Squib Cakes" by Tower of Power and I could NOT believe how well that worked!

I hope this topic rides for a while as this is a discussion you NEVER hear any more. This artform is a truly American creation and one to be studied and appreciated... AND NOT FORGOTTEN!!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 01:46 pm:

Jay,
I agree. a very good topic.

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 02:29 pm:

more to the focus of this site:

is there such a thang as DETROIT FUNK?

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 02:39 pm:

HW; COULD YOU POSSIBLY BE REFERRING TO "GRAND FUNK RAILROAD???...STU

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 02:48 pm:

Livonia Ken:
The Meters, Willie Tee & the Gaturs, Bernie Worrell, Bobby Eli, Eddie Bo, Allen Toussaint, Tower of Power, Lydia Pense & Cold Blood, Kool & the Gang, Con Funk Shun,....

The list grows on...

To Mi Amigo HW:
Detroit Funk? I pass that baton onto the Funk Brothers, early George Clinton & the Parliaments ("I Wanna Testify", "All Your Goodies Are Gone") and Brother Dennis Coffey ("Scorpio").

Funk on, my brothers & sisters, funk on...
Kevin "KevGo" Goins

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.154) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 03:14 pm:

I loved how even some of the Motown songs with some of the squarest basic grooves would be blessed with a hint of "the funk" via playing and/or arranging. My favorite example which I have mentioned before is "Love is Like an Itching in My Heart" which has this pretty straightforward snare hit on every beat, but around it you have the vibes just the right amount behind the beat and all of those slight variations on "and four and one" from the bass drum.

Regards,
Ken

By Jay (24.55.210.61) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 03:58 pm:

"more to the focus of this site: "
HW You're no fun! :-)

OK try Detroit Soul and Rock Convergence?

OK believe it or not, I saw Bob Seger play "I was Made to Love Her" at the Hideout (You remember that?)The bass player stuffed a sponge under his strings at the bridge to TRY and emulate Jamerson's percussive bass sound!

And I saw The MC5 play "Cold Sweat" at the Silver Bell Lodge (North of Detroit). (An acid version of Cold Sweat... My world was shattered!)
They blew the PA and continued....in a teeny voice
"I break Out" Doot Doot Doot Dootsh... "In a Cold Sweat" Doot Doot Dootsh... ...Classic :-(

By Clyde (167.167.44.218) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 03:38 am:

Are you sure Seger wasn't playing "Signed Sealed Delivered"?

By Keith Herschell - London (213.122.140.242) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 07:23 am:

This could go down as the most contentious thread ever. HW asked for Detroit Funk. Wasn't Johnnie Taylors (superior) version of "I wanna testify" recorded in Detroit. From JTs' opening shout of "LET ME, tell you something, about myself", over that wonderful throbbing base, it typifies a more sophisticated type of funk. Didn't Marvins' "Grapevine" also capture this. And I think Gladys Knights' original of this is pretty damn funky.
I am suprised so few people mention New Orleans when talking of funk. A couple of people mentioned the Meters, but Lee Dorseys' "Yes we can" hits a wonderful groove, and going back to the fifties, groups like Huey Piano Smith played a sort of funk with that shuffle beat on the snare.

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.101) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 09:17 am:

"Holy Cow" and Great "Googa Mooga"! As a penance for not mentioning Lee Dorsey specifically, I will vow that "Everything That I Do Gonh be Funky from Now On". Even if that involves "Sneaking Sally Through the Alley". Hey, it beats "Working in a Coal Mine", anyway. Thank you ladies and germs, I'll be hear all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

Actually, didn't Toussaint use the Meters on a lot of the Dorsey Sessions? They sort of cover a lot of New Orleans funk in blanket terms in much the same way that mentioning Norman Whitfield really suggests several Motown acts and musicians.

Addendum: In the interest of good taste and the high standards of the forum, I decided not to include any jokey references to Lee Dorsey's "Ride Your Pony".

Regards,
Ken

By mhc (172.144.243.86) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 09:35 am:

Back in the '70s (in Detroit) there was a GREAT band/posse of musicians called The Counts. They also made a record or two as Lunar Funk. They pretty much never get mentioned on this board, but I think that they had a one-of-a-kind Detroit funk thing going on. For one thing, they always used Hammond organ bass instead of bass guitar, and it sounded amazing.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 11:07 am:

Livonia Ken:
Toussaint used a few members of the Meters plus drummer June Gardner on the Lee Dorsey sessions from the mid 1960s. Speaking of New Orleans funk, how about Lee's "Ride Your Pony" or "Funky Four Corners Parts 1&2". Great stuff from the Cosimo's Studio.
Another addition to Detroit-based funk - how about the works of Andre "Bacon Fat" Williams! (Check out the Andre thread on the Forum).

Regards,

Kevin "KevGo" Goins

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 11:56 am:

MHC; ARE YOU REFERRING TO "THE FABULOUS COUNTS"? IF SO, WE HAVE SPOKEN OF THEM BEFORE ON THIS FORUM. THEY WERE FRIENDS OF MINE, AND WERE SPYDER TURNERS BACKUP BAND BEFORE HE WENT OUT ON HIS OWN. MOSE DAVIS WAS A FANTASTIC ORGANIST, AND IS CURRENTLY LIVING AND PLAYING IN ATLANTA. THEY RECORDED A TUNE CALLED "JAN JAN" WHICH HAD SOME MINOR SUCCESS. THEY WERE A GREAT JAZZ-FUNK GROUP...STU

By Rich (162.33.235.216) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 12:50 pm:

LOL - KevGo got the Funk list fo' sho' - basic criteria, do it shake rumps & bob heads - no matter what time of day, sick in the bed, car broke down, just been let-go, it'll still shakes rumps & bobs heads. He left off one of my favs ... Quazar & other lesser knowns

Sir Joe Quarterman & Free Soul, The Kay-Gees, Rasputin Stash & Black Heat

Myself, I got a full dose two weeks back at a killa P-Funk show in Philly.

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 01:06 pm:

Yes yes y'all: The FABULOUS COUNTS for Detroit Funk. Michael Henderson too. Stevie Wonder's MUSIC TALK: what a drum break, right in the intro - no waiting!

East Coast Funk = Kool & The Gang circa 1969-1977.

By mhc (172.150.156.195) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 01:16 pm:

Yes, Stubass, that's the group I'm thinking of. I really loved their two big CKLW hits: "Why Not Start All Over Again" and "Mr. Penguin" (as Lunar Funk). Also, I'm gonna go with the figurative 'body odor' definition of Funk. In an article that I read recently, Branford Marsalis described Hendrix's Band of Gypsys record as having a "funky-ass stank groove". That kinda gives it away, I think.

By Jay (24.55.210.61) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 01:22 pm:

Say, are these LUNAR TOONS available on the internet anywhere?

By Rich (162.33.234.130) on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 10:25 am:

HW, Kool & the Gang were indeed the Funk Bomb that set the standard for several years. Their keyboard player Ricky West(field), who wrote and sang "Hollywood Swinging", put out a solo album on MCA in '77 that was co-produced by Clay McMurray, I'm gonna slide on over to Clay's thread and see if he'll comment with any rememberances.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 11:34 am:

"Let The Music Take Your Mind," "Chocolate Buttermilk," "Raw Hamburger", "Music Is The Message," "Breeze & Soul" and of course "Funky Stuff", "Jungle Boogie", "Hollywood Swinging" & the LIVE version of "Summer Madness".

Kool & The Gang at their finest....

Regards,
KevGo

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.45) on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 12:05 pm:

Funky Music,
Sho'nuff,Turn's me on.
Mel(in a funkybroadway kinda mood).

By ErikT.O. (64.228.114.50) on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 10:23 pm:

Kool thread, gang, haw haw... Livonia beat me to the punch, I wanted to say 'Funk is a joint rolled in toilet paper', oh well... also wanted to suggest the P-Funk Westbound/Detroit recording years qualify their sound as 'Detroit Funk', no? Also want to give New Orleans props to the first Wild Magnolias lp, perhaps the funkiest album ever recorded on Earth, and mention Lee Dorsey, I thought his version of 'Ride Your Pony' shook a lot of people up musically, I know James Brown busted into it here & there (like on that video from Boston '68). I got a copy of 'Night People' today on the way home from work, I was skeptical, being from '78 & in the eye of the disco hurricane (75-80, kinda?)... anyhow, it has some real funky tunes, did any second rate music come out of N'Awlins before Britney Spears?
Finally, a Kool & The Gang question- I've seen 2 lp's by the 'Kay Gees' on DeLite Recs, I have a Kay Gees single ('Gotta Keep On Bumpin' Pts 1 & 2, funky as fu, fu....)- anyhow, are the KayGees auxilliary members of Kool & The Gang, or what's the deal? I'm really tempted by the lp's but they're 40 bucks each, I usually balk at 20 unless it's something I never see anywhere else, that sticks in my mind until I cave in & buy it like Paul Humpherys lp's...

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 10:30 pm:

Erik,
Well, as much as I love New Orleans music -- and I'm at jazz fest more often than not -- they promote their music like crazy. Everybody is a star. Even a one-hit guy like Ernie K. Doe was treated like a superstar ... I mean, he had the "Mother-in-Law Lounge" in N.O., which you can still visit thanks to his widow. That'd be like Tim Tam and the Turn-ons having their own cocktail lounge in Allen Park or something ...

By HW (68.37.219.140) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 07:56 am:

the Kay-Gees were the baby Bell brothers of Kool and Ronald Bell aka Khalis Bayyan.

By Rich (12.90.23.229) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 08:55 am:

Erik in TO - The Kay-Gees first two albums Bumpin/MasterPlan & Find a Friend were produced by Ronald Bell. Most of the tunes were co-written by Ronald & he's blowing tenor all over 'em. Bumpin sounds something like Wild & Peaceful outtakes. Find a Friend sounds more like the Gang's Open Sesame-era. Their third & fourth albums, Kilowatt & Burn Me Up, have more of a latin-disco feel to them, and Ronald (Khalis) is nowhere to be found.

To add to KevGo's K&TG list: Love the Life You Live, Who's Gonna Take the Weight, Pneumonia, Funky Granny & The Penguin

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:03 am:

Rich:
Yes-yes,great adds to the K&TG list...especially "Who's Gonna Take The Weight".

More to the Kool list - "NT","Kool & the Gang","The Gang Is Back" and the entire "Kool & the Gang Live At The Sex Machine" album.

Funk on, brothers & sisters....

Kevin Goins - "KevGo"

By TonyRussi (68.18.34.83) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 12:39 pm:

Hey Gang lets' not forget the Grandaddy of Funk Mr. Rufus Thomas...."Funky Chicken" "Push N Pull" "Breakdown" & "Funky Penguin" were all huge hits and some of the FUNKIEST and this man was about 54 yrs old at that time!

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 06:23 pm:

AND let us not forget "justa,justa,walkin the dog, aarruu,aarruu, whistle, whistle, come on

By Rich (12.90.26.239) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 07:32 pm:

Rufus Thomas ... Yeah!! Thanks Lynn for bringing up the name of the Clown Prince. I've gotta admit my favorites are from the early 70's like 6-3-8 & The Funky Bird. What can I say, I'm a child of the 70's. Dare I say it ... same with James Brown who birthed this thread in 1965. As much as I respect his 60's innovations and love the music he made with Bootsy Collins in 1970 & early '71 ... my favorite JB spans Escapism to Funky President mid'71 thru late '74

same beat ..... same beat ..... same beat ..... same beat .....

peace

By ErikT.O.Wants to hear those Kay Gees El Pees (64.228.108.74) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 10:21 pm:

10 O'clock- And I'm Funky! /Rufus Thomas offa 'Funkiest Man Alive', one of the funkiest Stax lp's ever, I think...
Thanks for the KayGees info folks, and to Sue, I haven't been to N-O myself, but if Muhammad Ali and Kenny Rogers can sell (or try selling) rotisserie chicken franchises, I can handle Ernie K Doe's 'Mother In Law' Cafe..! I also think Detroit could probably learn a thing or two from N-O with respect to capitalizing on it's musical history...

By Rich (12.90.16.227) on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:46 pm:

Right you are - Funkiest Man Alive is one bad jam - ultra-funky Tutti Frutti on that one - but I'm thinking the album's called Crown Prince of Dance, agreed - its truly a great one. "I Wanna Sang" is a great cut that was sampled by George Clinton for "This is How We Do it"

The Kay-Gees CDs feature a bonus track or two & a few extended cuts (Bus Stop, On the Money) on Find a Friend, which can typically be found for less than the vinyl

Everyday People is another group produced by Gene Redd who sound a bit like early K&TG, the CD has a tremendous non-LP cut "The Bump". They did covers of Who's Gonna Take the Weight & Funky Granny. I think I heard they were originally from Toronto. Know anything about that Erik?

Rich

By WK (166.90.228.204) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 11:43 am:

New to the forum and amazed at wealth of knowledge available here! Just wanted to try and provide a few definitive examples of 'Detroit Funk'. JJ Barnes 'So Called Friends' on Revilot, Mad Dog and the Pups on Magic City, Soul Toronadoes on Burt, Prepositions on Movement, Earl English and the Apaches on Sixtoe; Beans Bowles had a group in the early 70s called the Swinging Dashikis that played clubs but never recorded; Manuel Holcolm 'I Stayed Away Too Long' on Diamond Jim (later picked up by Atlantic), Donald Austin on Woody, lots of stuff on Westbound (Robert Lowe, Pleasure Web, etc.) and Sussex (the legendary Mr.Dennis Coffey) oh and another group...I think they were called Funkadelic or something like that ;). As you can see the list is pretty long and this just scratches the surface!
I can't remember who demonstrates the different fills that each Motown drummer used, but that segment in SITSOM proved that the Funk Bros. were appropriately named.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 11:56 am:

WK,
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for contributing some great information.

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 12:28 pm:

I don't know about now as most of Americas music is homoginized sounding.

In the early 60s the New Orleans musicians were about as funky as you could get. In those days most of us drummers did a strong back-beat or a 4/4 beat.In Miami in 63, we worked opposite a older New Orleans band that had this old drummer doing what he called a Louisiana fat-back beat. Hardly any drummers were playing that way back then. I couldn't believe what a difference that beat made to the average song. I felt like a student at the feet of a master when he showed me that beat.
To this day I'm in awe of the old New orleans R.& B. musicians. YOU GUYS RULE!!!!!
SLAINTE VA,LYNN

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.21) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 12:33 pm:

Hey Lynn
did you ever get to work with the METERS by any chance.
MEL.

By Rich (12.90.17.139) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 12:43 pm:

Hey WK, you mentioned Robert Lowe - the trumpet playing on his "Back to Funk" cut is absolutely tremendous

I believe "So-called Friends" was a George Clinton production that Funkadelic later re-recorded as "Friday Night August the 14th", and included on their Free Your Mind LP. "Some More", also from Free Your Mind, was a reworking of the Debonaires "Headache in My Heart" which BTW, is one great title. Along those lines, Funkadelic re-cut Heart Trouble, which is the single currently pictured on SD's home page, as "You Can't Miss (what you can't measure)" and included that one on their 1973 LP Cosmic Slop. Cosmic Slop also contained a re-working of The Fellows "Let's Make it Last". Anybody know who the vocalists were in the Fellows or what label put that one out?

Been waiting for a great Funk thread ... thanks Clyde

Peace, Rich

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 12:43 pm:

Mel, no sir, never had the pleasure.

By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 01:28 pm:

Rich ; the Fellows release was on Solid Hit Records (SH-110) , another LeBaron Taylor label. It was released in 1967 and the B-side was "She's Always There", which I've never heard. Don't you think the lead vocalist sounds quite a bit like Fuzzy Haskins? I've often wondered if the Fellows weren't the Parliaments under another name.

Steve K.

By R&B (138.238.41.214) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 03:05 pm:

IM WITH STUBASS,I DONT KNOW WHO WAS FUNKY BEFORE JB.WOW THATS A GOOD ONE!

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 03:52 pm:

Rich,

Thanks for mentioning the Fellows' "Let's Make It
Last". I'd swear that's the Parliaments singing on that side, the other side sounds like a completely different group.

The Fellows was released on Solid Hit, production
credits go to Clay McMurray. MAybe Clay can give us the background story. The story I've heard is
that the Fellows won a talent contest the prize
being the chance to make a single. My guess is that the Fellows did "She's Always There" but
the "Let's Make It Last" side is a Parliaments'
out-take (from Revilot?).

Whatever the story "Let's Make It Last" is a
monster - I play it more than I do "Testify"

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:21 pm:

GREETINGS ALL: NO DISCUSSION OF FUNKY MUSIC COULD POSSIBLY BE COMPLETE WITHOUT INCLUDING R&B, FUNK LEGEND...MR. JOE TEX...STU

By ErikT.O. Cranking P-Funks live 83 cd, the funkiest 80s music?!? (64.228.108.1) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 05:41 pm:

Hiya Rich, I had no idea those KayGees lp's were on cd, with bonus tracks, no less... are they American cd's (ie am I likely to see them here for under 35 bucks?)- just wandering...
Funny you mentioned Everyday People, I'd never heard of them until my last jaunt to Montreal where I saw 2 copies of an lp of theirs (1 pricey, 1 cheap)- there was a song called 'My Nova Scotia Home' or something like that which scared me off wandering what their funky covers might be like, I'll have to keep an eye open for it, although I haven't seen (or looked for) that lp here in T.O. Speaking of funkiness from Canada, has anyone here got any info about the funkiest Canadian lp I've ever heard, HP Riot's only album... any info at all on these guys would be appreciated, I play 'em on my radio show & solicit info but the most I get is a caller who also likes 'em & wants to know more...

By Karyl (207.69.115.1) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:43 pm:

This is a quote from Rickey Vincent's book, "Funk, the Music, the People, and the Rhythm of One..

"Funk is a many splendored thing. Funk is a nasty vibe, and a sweet sexy feeling; Funk is funkiness, a natural release of the essence within. Funk is a high, but it is also down at the bottom, the low-down earthy essence, the bass elements. Funk is at the extremes of everything. Funk is hot, but funk can be cool. Funk is primitive, yet funk can be sophisticated. Funk is a way out, and a way in. Funk is all over the place. Funk is a means of release that cannot be denied."

By Horse (68.61.77.137) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:55 pm:

Funk is BIG on the "1" which creates the tension. Then "2" as the release, next comes relaxed on the "3" and then hold back on the "4" to make the release even FATTER...! THAT'S the FUNK that makes you move..! It doesn't get any simpler

By WK (65.59.32.73) on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 11:22 am:

Rich,

I'll have to dig up my Robert Lowe 45's to check out that trumpet work.
Thanks for the Funkadelic song cycle too!
Here's one I've always been curious about:
The Superlatives - I Don't Know How (To Say I Love You) Don't Walk Away.
Not only does it have one of the longest most perplexing titles out there, it's got a great arrangement that falls somewhere between Motown and the dirtier funk that has been at issue in this thread. It was originally issued on Dynamic and later on Westbound. All I can determine is that is was written by R. Washington and the lead vocal might be Danny Moore. BTW the B side, Lonely In A Crowd (written by F. Washington) is just as excellent.
So any guesses, ideas, or stories Soulful D?


WK

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 12:03 pm:

RICH AND WK; I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED ROBERT LOWE. AS I STATED BEFORE, I WORKED SOME GIGS WITH ROBERT IN THE 60"S, AND HE PLAYS A JAZZ, FUNK, R&B FUSION WHICH CARRIES HIS OWN STAMP OF UNIQUENESS. ALSO A SUPER NICE PERSON. DENNIS COFFEY MENTIONED ON ANOTHER THREAD THAT HE HEARD ROBERT PLAY RECENTLY, AND THAT HE STILL SOUNDS GOOD, SO I'LL BE HAPPY TO TAKE DENNIS'S WORD FOR IT...ROBERT IS CERTAINLY ANOTHER VASTLY UNDERRATED DETROIT MUSICIAN...STU

By Rich (162.33.235.22) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 09:55 am:

Thanks Davie & Steve - Let's Make it Last certainly does sound like The Parliaments which is kind of ironic since Pat Lewis and The Holidays (JJ Barnes, Edwin Starr & Steve Mancha) actually sang behind GC on most of The Parliaments Revilot singles. Good to know about the B-side. Maybe they recorded as The Fellows during the time that the injunction kept them from using The Parliaments name (approx: summer '68 - spring '69).

Erik I thought the The Kay-Gees stuff was available on Unidisc outta Montreal. The Everyday People CD/LP - you want to be sure it contains: Who's Gonna Take the Blame, Funky Gene-a-ration, Funky Granny & The Bump

By 1wicked (64.32.154.94) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 04:38 pm:

Re: The KayGees
The KayGee's were led by Kevin Bell & the name evolved from "Kevin's Gang". He later joined Kool for a while. Now...does anyone know whatever happened to "Today's Edition" (the fellas) and "Something Sweet" (the ladies) who sang background for Kool & The Gang ??

By Rich (12.90.26.140) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 04:55 pm:

Thanks for the name tidbit Wicked 1.

Tomorrows's Edition - had a (philly-soul-sounding) single produced by George Brown (Say it Again) that came out on Gang Records in 1975. Gang Records also released "Be Real" as a single by Tomorrows Edition but its the same tune thats included on The Kay-Gees Find a friend album (The LP jacket features a picture of the vocal group). The got signed to a major label (I forget which one) in the early 80's and put out a couple 7 & 12 inches, which were minor hits. I've not seen anything on them since.

Peace, Rich

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.48) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 04:58 pm:

WK
Is the Superlatives that
you mention anything to do with the
Superlatives
that recorded on Uptight Records?
or is this a different group.
Many thanks,
MEL.

By thecount (65.60.149.108) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:57 pm:

"CHILLS AND FEVER"====RONNIE LOVE
"COUNT"

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.66) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:05 am:

Count,
yet another record that has been spun on our scene over here,
I would just love to see your record collection man.
Ive got 3 versions of the track you have mentioned,
MEL.

By Clyde (167.167.44.218) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:07 am:

Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:27 pm:

Clyde:
Owww! "Respect Yourself", "Spreadin' Honey", "Do Your Thing" and probably the funkiest up-tempo love song on this planet - "Love Land"!

Charles Wright & Co. had the goods...

Respect,
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By matt (208.130.56.167) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:51 pm:

kudos to wk for the detroit funk list. here's some more:
johnnie mae matthews, "my momma didn't lie," "you make me feel good" (big hit)
anything by black nasty
nathaniel mayer, "i want love and affection"/"from now on" (fortune)
nelson sanders, "this love is here to stay" (la beat)
wilson harris, "smokin' so hard it's right funky" (black soul)
soul president, "get it right"/"got to have it" (big mack)
freddy wilson, "promise land" (eastbound)
t. mack brown, "communicating" (mier)
tmg's, "the hatch" (soul shake)
detroit sex machines, "the stretch," "funky crawl"/"rap it together" (soul track)
robert jay, "alcohol" (jo ann)
king cain, "don't give a damn" (big star)
ellen jackson, "ghetto boogie" (big star)
gino washington, "foxy walk" (atac)
firebirds, "zip it down and throw it out" (crow)
eric & the vikings, "get off the streets y'all" (soulhawk)

by, the way, wk, do you have a spare earl english?

By wk (12.27.0.104) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 05:07 pm:

hey matt!

great list. unfortunately i just gave away my last copy of ol' earl...if i had read your message just five minutes ago...

i'm tempted add a few motown titles to the funk list:

smokey robinson - if you can want
earl van dyke - the flick

i'd also add smokey and the miracles on ed sullivan popping and grunting his way through going to a go go.


wk

By matt (208.130.56.167) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 08:31 pm:

wk: have you heard the "other" version of "trying to make ends meet," which keb darge has been spinning? credited to just the apaches, not earl english...substitutes acoustic guitar for wah-wah but otherwise pretty similar.
matt

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 05:22 pm:

Hey Gang:
How about the funk of New Orleans...
The Meters, Smokey Johnson ("It Ain't My Fault"),Willie Tee & the Gaturs ("Funky Funky Twist"),Wild Magnolias, Lee Dorsey,Allen Toussaint, THE WHOLE ENTIRE NEVILLE FAMILY, drummer James Black, composer Wardell Quezerque, Robert "Barefootin'" Parker and finally Mr. Eddie Bo ("Hook & Sling" Part 2).
What a feast!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Rich (162.33.235.76) on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 08:58 am:

Right KG,

The Chicago-Detroit thread mentions those two cities as the most important, but Philly, Memphis & New Orleans cannot be omitted as front-line cities for soul & funk. Yeah Eddie BoCage, & George Semper, too. And the Wild Cha-luuu-paz (I forget how its spelled). Ever heard Aaron Neville's "Hercules"? Now there's some serious FUNK for ya, rat there.

Peace

By wk (12.27.0.104) on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 11:45 am:

Matt,

haven't heard the other version, but have heard quite a bit about it. suprised you didn't mention richard's people (tuba) on your list!


wk

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 01:52 pm:

Rich,

It's the Wild Tchoupitoulas - seriously fonky

By Jay (24.55.210.61) on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 05:16 am:

And seemingly out of nowhere Prince the artist who formerly was, and now seemingly is again!....
He and his "smokin, seriously funky" band were on the Tonight show tonight and really tore it down.
It ain't dead yet folks! :-)