By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 02:55 pm:

Hello Everyone,

I have searched the archives and have not found very much on the Isley Brothers, so I am hoping some of the regulars with the vast knowledge they have can provide some information on the Isleys time at Motown.

I have their UK 60's LP's and some recent compilation CD's. The stuff they cut at Motown is in my oppinion fantastic. To me they had a rougher edge than most of the other artists at that time, and kept that gospel/RnB feel within the Motown sound.

"THIS OLD HEART OF MINE" will live forever of course, but theres so many other lesser known tracks that are quite simply awesome! Many are popular on the UK northern soul scene.

One track, (which is a current favourate) I would like to ask about appeared on the UK CD, Essential Collection and is called "TROUBLE" This song is similar to "HEART OF MINE". Was it recorded around the same time? Sleve notes say published 1971 and the songwriters are HUNTER/BOWDEN. Hunter needs no introduction here, but I've not notced the name Bowden often. Any info on this please.

I know they were not there long, about 3 years, and I believe they were not to happy at having little artistic control. I have also read that there was some jealousy by some of the Motown artist's about them being placed with HDH

Any information on any of the above would be appreciated. Thanks SDUK

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.22) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 03:01 pm:

Nice thread Dave,
I have 8 lps by the great Brothers and would also like to know there involvement etc,whilst they were with Motown.
Not forgetting the various singles I have,the
very first 45 I heard by them was in 1970/71 and was the stomping biggie at that time on the rare soul scene called,
Take Some Time Out For Love.
Nice one Souliedave,
Mel.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 03:14 pm:

Hello Dave,

Tricky question - as you'll probably know already
most of the more obscure tracks on the "Essential
Collection" were never issued at any time in the
US. Their first appearance was on a budget priced
LP on the UK Starline label in 1971.

"Bowden" is Stephen Bowden. He left Motown to head out to Los Angeles to join the staff of
the Venture label, a subsidiary of MGM run by
ex- Motowner Mickey Stevenson. Bowden was
with Venture in late '67 - early '68 so we'll
have to guess that the songs he wrote with Ivy
Jo were written and recorded sometime in '67.

Try the forum search for "Venture Records" for more info.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

Dave and Mel,

Thanks for the response. I too have the single "TAKE SOME TIME OUT FOR LOVE" I like the the B side a lot, "WHO COULD EVER DOUBT MY LOVE"

I have a UK buget LP with some of those tracks on. Mine is called "Tamla Motown Presents the Islay Brothers" and is on the Music for Pleasure label, published 1972. Thanks again. SDUK

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.71) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 03:57 pm:

Dave,
I havent heard a bad track by the Isley Brothers.
Have you heard these tracks by them, known by other artists,but as usual with anything the brothers do,excellent!
Leaving Here.
Share a little love with me(somebody).
Mel.
Regards myself and the Isley brothers Ive got
So much to shout about,and dont ever
Tell me that this is just a rumour(ouch,sorry mate).
Mel.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 04:01 pm:

Dave,

Is that the one with the green background and the guys wearing bright orange suits ?

There's another one, on Starline, that had a few
more "unissued in the US" tracks.

I can't get to my albums to check.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.48) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 04:15 pm:

Dave,
if your search for Venture records dosent help you,
let me Know as I have the complete Venture Label listing and history of the Label.
Mel.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 06:39 pm:

In my opinion i don't think motown really done the isley brothers justice.Yes there were great tracks recorded,(this old heart,behind a painted smile)but far too often they seemed to given songs that had already been cut with other artists. It wasn't that the records were bad,it just that they could have achieved so much more, i'm really glad they went on to much bigger things
elsewhere they certainly deserved it.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 07:44 pm:

Davie, Yes it is the one with the orange suits. I've treasured that LP for years, nice to get the tracks on CD though.

Mel, Yes I've got both of those tracks, and as good as they are, I prefer the Monitors version of "Share a little love" a belter. Regards SDUK.

By Mark Speck (65.56.5.134) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 10:16 pm:

Noticed that no one mentioned "Behind a Painted Smile"--what a brilliant tune!!

Best,

Mark

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.109) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 11:59 pm:

Dave,
I wasnt saying there version was better than the Monitors,
Just a great version.
Mark Speck.
Did you find any obscure 4 beats to the bar dancers on your travels mate?
If so,and either you dont like them,or they sound like a John Leach after the first hearing,
just let me know,ho ho.
Mel.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 03:51 am:

soulboy, I am glad too that they went on to make it really big. But being basically a best before 1970 man I never bought a lot of vinyl through the seventies. I know their hits after Motown of course, and great records they were.

It seems they did cut a lot of other artist's songs at Motown, I like their versons of "Nowhere to Run" and Stop in the Name of Love". In fact I can't think of anything they did that I don't like.

I think the practice of cutting the same song with different artists must have been quite common at Motown, and it's great that a lot of them have seen the light of day on various CD's in recent years.

Mel, I love this forum, "seek and you shall find" I was sad when you were "leaving here"
I said "baby don't you do it"
I thought "got to have you back"
Coz it's "no good without you"
And you've got "so much to shout about"
Cheers mate, SDUK

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.60) on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 04:13 am:

Hey Dave,
many thanks and Right on Brother.
Mel.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 11:15 am:

"Soul On The Rocks" is probably my favourite album of all time.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 05:00 pm:

David,

February 1968. What a month for a young man 17 years old. My first visit's to the Manchester Twisted Wheel and the Blackpool Mecca. So much great music swimming around in my head, and the UK release of "Soul on the Rocks". Great album that I think I appreciated even more when I got a little older, dont know why?

By HW (68.37.217.106) on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 07:31 pm:

Motown UK has just issued the Isleys' two Tamla albums on 1 CD, with 3 bonus tracks.

By Mark Speck (65.57.18.46) on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 09:10 pm:

No traveling as of yet, Mel. My sister chose to visit us from Boston right now, plus my niece is coming in from New Hampshire.

I'm holding out a little hope that I can do some record hunting this week.

Give me a shout on my mail box when you can.

soulmark@flash.net

Best,

Mark

By GrahamD (62.254.0.8) on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 05:05 am:

Has everyone forgot the most played track by the Isleys called My love is you love forever that was released on a Music for pleasure Lp,still a monster tune and still gettin big spins today.
I love the work at Motown the Isleys did but their work at T-Neck etc is to funky for me!! still Summer Breeze is so cool. Class and then some eh Mel!!! GrahamD

By TonyRussi (68.18.34.83) on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 07:44 am:

Ronald Isley has one of the most exciting soulful voices in music history I really love "A Weakspot In My Heart" on the new Cellarful of Motown CD infact that turns out to be my favorite Isleys' Motown track.Thanks to HW for finding that one in the Vaults!

By Keith Herschell (213.122.128.172) on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 06:36 am:

I think that the Isleys� have been superb at every stage of their career. I was rather ignorant of their pre-motown work until I recently obtained a CD of their recordings done at the time of �Shout�. I love the excitement and vibrancy that comes through, like a no-holds barred gospel workout. It also put me in mind of some of the stuff that Jackie Wilson was doing at the time. They also cut a great ballad that was on a Kent compilation, recorded for Atlantic called �The last girl� (or something like that). But my favourites are the Motown recordings, favourites being; It�s out of the question, There�s no love left, the beautiful One too many heartaches, the driving force of Why when love is gone, and their definitive version of the oft recorded That�s the way love is. I remember my first visit to the Torch, and amongst the great records that I heard for the first time, thinking how good Tell me it's just a rumour sounded on a big system. I also like some of their post Motown recordings, especially Warpath, Love the one you�re with (a good song to start with) and Work to do. I agree with Tony Russi, Ronald Isleys' voice is wonderful.

By Al Henderson (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 06:16 am:

This chat thing is very new to me, so over look the errors, please. Sorry, Dave G. I only know one Bowden at that time with Motown his name was
Jeffrie Bowden, he hung around Norman Whitfield and Eddie Holland. He had the thickish glasses I have ever seen. I worked at Motown in 67. I was in the building when the National Guards were shooting in it (I was under the swiftboard still answering the phones), I worked afternoons; but, I do have many stories from that time, I worked days at G.M. down the street. Like the 2nd day of the riot, G.M. told me not to come in, too dangerous, I called Motown and was told,"Boy, you
had better get your butt in here!", I think that was the night the guards shot into the place. I hope Levi Stubbs gets better, he was a very nice person to talk with, Debbie, tell Levi Al from H.P said hello, he came by my house twice that I can recall, I was also a friend of Mr. O'dom.
Al Henderson

By EM (63.188.32.79) on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 07:04 am:

Al, that's Jeffrey Bowen not Bowden. Davie G is correct, Stephen Bowden co-wrote the song mentioned and some others at Motown.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 07:13 am:

Al,

Jeffrey Bowen went on to work at Invictus with
the Chairmen of the Board on their "The Skin I'm
In" album. He returned to Motown in the mid-seventies working with the Temptations after
Norman left and later on worked with Bonnie
Pointer.

Thanks for the info. about Motown during the
1967 riots. I'd always been under the impression that the Motown building was unaffected by the
riots - thanks for the information from somebody who was there at the time.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 12:22 pm:

THE ISLEY BROS.TIME AT MOTOWM WAS SHORT{65-68}BUT THEY HAD SOME GREAT SONGS,NOT ALL OF THEM HITS BUT GREAT STILL,LIKE THE MINICLASSIC {THERES NO LOVE LEFT} OR {ONE TOO MANY HEARTACHES}JUST TO NAME A COUPLE.ISLEYS AT MOTOWN...SHORT BUT SWEET.

By Yan (62.30.112.3) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 01:35 pm:

.....really love that track- "All Because I Love You". Very off-beat/raw/moody for Motown- there's a bit where the funky horn thing on the chorus continues on a bit longer through the beginning of just one of the verses (or maybe the other way around!)- it always gets me; really innovative subtle production by Frank Wilson- and great tortured vocals by Ron Isley too ("I just believe he's really no good for you...").

I first heard it on one of the U.K versions of the "16 Big Hits Series"; can't remember which one but it also had Tempts- "Gotta Find A Way To Get You Back", Vancouvers- "Does Your Mama Know About Me" and the mind-blowing "Say You" by the Monitors (what a cut!)- and everything else except the Supremes track (it was some hackneyed song about being ashamed of their mother or something...does anyone remember this??)was great too. Truly ace LP!!

P.S Don't suppose there is a version of "All Because I Love You" by the Tempts, is there?? That would be something to hear!

By BankHouseDave (195.93.49.10) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 10:40 am:

An original Isleys killer from their Motown days was Tell Me It is Just a Rumour, Babe. Also another glory moment for the Funks.

By R&B (138.238.41.145) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 10:52 am:

DAVE,YOU MAY WANT T TAKE A LISTEN TO THE ISLEY BROS.RENDITION OF{I HEAR A SYMPHONY}VERY WELL DONE.

By MotownForever (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 10:58 am:

Let's not forget one of my all time favorites by the Isleys while at Motown - "I Guess I'll Always Love You."

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 12:45 pm:

R&B, I have the Isley's version of "I hear a Symphony" The song itself is not one of my all time favourates to come out of hitsville. But I would far rather listen to the Isley Brothers version of it than Stevie Wonders, the Supremes, or anyone else's for that matter. Regards SDUK

By BankHouseDave (195.93.49.10) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 12:50 pm:

Probably the biggest break for Motown's harp player.

By dvdmike (12.84.12.17) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

The Isleys were too restrained at Motown. They weren't allowed to do their own writing, producing or arranging. They were successful long before they went to Detroit. Fact is, the Isley Brothers simply were not a Motown group.

By HW (68.37.221.153) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 02:25 pm:

Come visit us at boards.motown.com and do a search on the Isley Brothers - among other topics.

Then, bookmark it, of course, and come back here.

By John Lester (213.123.124.118) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 03:14 pm:

Mark

"Behind The Painted Smile" was played on the radio at the time a lot, so it doesn't surprise me nobody mentions it. The false ending used to get missed.....often!!!

It sounds great on the recent two-fer which has bonus tracks including a NEW version of "My Love Is Your Love (Forever)" plus a MONO version of "Take Me In Your Arms (Rock Me...)".....amongst others...hopefully our "mono is best" fans will be happy with that one. (All Because I Love You is also mono)

By Scratcher (65.133.219.227) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 03:36 pm:

I love the Isley Brothers Motown Records even though they (the Isley Brothers) don't seem to care much about them. Who were allowed to do their own thing at Motown in the '60s? I prefer their Motown recordings to anything they did prior to Motown. The early T-Neck Records were awfully crude. "Twist and Shout" was nice but what else did they do worthy of talking about at Wand Records? They did, however, do some consistently good stuff for United Artist Records prior to Motown but didn't have any big hits.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.86) on Saturday, January 18, 2003 - 03:45 pm:

Right-On Scratcher.