By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.99) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 12:37 pm:| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.99) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
Apologies for any errors,
and I apologise about recent errors.
But once more,I will repeat my reasons
for doing the threads,
Its so the mistakes can be rectified by the people that do know.
As I for one am ALWAYS Willing and wanting to learn more.
THANK YOU.
Ernie Terrell
Heavyweight Champion 5 March 1965-6Feb 1967.
duration;1year and 343 days.
Heavyweight title fights-4/won3/losti
Career bouts-55/won46(ko's21)lost9.
mel.
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:01 pm: |
MEL; THANKS FOR THAT. ERNIE WAS A GREAT CHAMPION DURING HIS ERA. HE MAY HAVE CONTINUED TO DOMINATE THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION UNTIL HE CAME UP AGAINST "THE GREATEST" CASSIUS MARCELLUS CLAY...A.K.A. MUHAMMED ALI. ALI AT THE TIME WAS REJUVINATING HIS CAREER AMID THE CONFLICT OF THE VIETNAM WAR CONTRIVERSY AND HIS CHANGE IN RELIGION. SPORTS, IN ADDITION TO MUSIC IS ANOTHER KEEN INTEREST OF MINE. NATURALLY, A LITTLE STORY POPS TO MIND WHICH COMBINES BOTH INTERESTS & MY INVOLVEMENT IN BOTH. AT ABOUT THE AGE OF 11 OR 12, I JOINED A BAND AS THE SINGER WITH THREE OR FOUR OTHER GUYS. WE PLAYED AT DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS. OUR GUITAR PLAYER...JACKIE TANN LATER OWNED A RECORDING STUDIO ON THE WEST SIDE WHERE THE GROUP ENCHANTMENT RECORDED WITH MICHAEL STOKES. MY FAMILY WAS FRIENDS WITH THE TANN FAMILY...BY THE WAY RALPH...IF YOU'RE LOOKING IN...DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO JACKIE, ALTHOUGH I'M SURE I CAN FIND OUT THROUGH HIS BROTHER ALAN WHO IS MARRIED TO MY SISTERS BEST FRIEND. ANYWAYS, OUR BAND DID A PERFORMANCE AT THE TANN FAMILIY HOUSEKEEPERS CHURCH. ONE OF THE CHURCH MEMBERS WHO I MET THAT NIGHT WAS MARTY MARSHALL. THIS WAS DURING THE CASSIUS CLAY VS. SONNY LISTON ERA, WHEN EVERYONE THOUGHT THAT CLAY HAD NO CHANCE AGAINST THE POWERFUL AND INVINCIBLE LISTON. MARTY MARSHALL AT THE TIME HAD BEEN THE LAST FIGHTER TO DEFEAT SONNY LISTON A COUPLE OF YEARS EARLIER, AND I MET HIM THAT NIGHT. NEEDLESS TO SAY, IT WAS QUITE A THRILL FOR AN 11 OR 12 YEAR OLD SPORTS FAN...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.42) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:14 pm: |
Stu,
I Could talk all week regards the boxing.
Ali indeed was the man,what a brute of a guy
Sonny liston was.I read that it took up to 6 or 7 cops just to put him in the back of the station wagon.
My gaff(house)is full of boxing memorabilia.I used to box for the Army(Irish Guards)but today,I couldnt box eggs.
Anyway stu,from a fellow sports nut,Thanks.
Mel(boom boom,and bobbin' an' weavin')
On the music theme,
I have a version of Ben e.Kings Stand by me on the british CBS Label.
bY (AS HE WAS KNOWN THEN)
cassius clay.(and rumoured to have cut it
in one take)Not too bad,but obviously not in the class of Mr.King,
then I suppose Mr. King wasnt in the same class as Ali in the ring.
| By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:28 pm: |
Hi Mel, glad your back. I used to think Bob Foster was one of the best pound for pound fighters around. Nobody could touch him at his weight, he faught the heavies many times just to get a good fight,including, i think Ali himself.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:40 pm: |
SOULIE DAVE; BOB FOSTER WAS PROBABLY THE GREATEST LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION IN BOXING HISTORY. UNFORTUNATLY, AS IS ALWAYS THE CASE WHEN A LIGHT-HEAVY TRIES TO MAKE THE JUMP TO HEAVYWEIGHT...ALI SOUNDLY DEFEATED HIM. MEL; COULD BEN E HAVE REALLY BEEN DON KING IN DISGUISE. NOW * THAT * WOULD MAKE A GREAT STORY. BY THE WAY...NOW THAT WE HAVE SOLVED THE MYSTERY OF THE TERRELL FAMILY TREE...PERHAPS WE COULD OPEN AN INVESTIGATION INTO WHETHER ANY RELATIONSHIP EXISTS BETWEEN BOXING GREAT SONNY LISTON AND THE LEGENDARY FEMALE JAZZ TROMBONIST MELBA LISTON...OR PERHAPS I HAVE GONE TOO FAR AFIELD HERE...STU
| By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.61) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:43 pm: |
Nice one dave and thanks.
Now then what about Homocide Hank,Archie Moore,Jersey Joe Wallcot,Marcel Cerdan,Graziano,La Motta,Gene Tunney,So many great pugilists from so many era's.
But apart from Ali,the boy for me was
The Rock.(aka)Rocky Marciano(andthensome)
Anyway,before ralph counts this thread out,
I think we had better get back to the music fellas.
Tnanks Dave.
Keeping with the music theme.
Joe Frazier/1st round knock-out and he also did another which I Cant recall at present,but I know its still a rarity on the Rare/Northern soul Scene today.
Regards 1st round k.o.
this was also a dancer around 1977/8 on the rare/northern soul scene.
| By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.61) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:49 pm: |
Stu,
Alas the Jazz scene is way out of my depth mate,
what are you trying to do stu,
I am still trying to build back the credibility that I lost on the Tammi Terrell thread.
I wouldnt dare attempt a shot at the Jazz scene
anyway,I only know about a dozen or so artists.
and NO WAY will I name them.(just incase,you know what I mean Stu).
MEL(The clue-less jazzman).
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:54 pm: |
Hey Mel,
If you're in to boxing like you say you are, then you probably know my friend, Jackie Kallen. She worked very closely with Thomas "Hit Man" Hearns, then went on to manage James "Lights Out" Toney. Until she moved to L.A., Jackie was here in Detroit, and for the past 20+ years or so, I've gone to fights with her both here and in Las Vegas. Saw the one where Roy Jones killed James Toney. Toney then threatened Jackie's life because he lost the fight and blamed her...never mind that he forgot to train! He thought Roy Jones was a push over! Anyway, there's a movie coming out in March starring Meg Ryan called "Against the Ropes", which is the Jackie Kallen story! We shot some scenes in Cleveland last June, and I guess I made the cut...hey, I'm an extra! When Jackie managed Bronco McKart, my son, who was around 8 or 9 at the time, played Bronco as a kid in a promo for ESPN!
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.61) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:56 pm: |
Stu,
I havent heard Don Kings version of
Stand by me,so perhaps,who knows,he may well be fooling us all with a disguise.
Mel.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.61) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 02:12 pm: |
Millie,
I have indeed heard of Jackie Kallen,
but nowhere in the way that you do.And Ive also heard about the film you mention.
The HitMan,Wow,now theres a name.Do you remember Dennis Andries that went over to work in the Hitmans gym,among that famous stable of fighters.
And by doing so,improved greatly.
You obviously know your stuff Millie,
Now,give me an un-biased opinion about the current world champion,Lennox Lewis.
Regards Jackie Kallen I am not certain but I recall a piece(who I am sure was Jackie Kallen,but dont quote me,with my track record)all about her life in the world of boxing in one or two British newspapers.
My ambition is to go over to the states and see a world championship fight.
Many thanks Millie.
MEL.
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 02:12 pm: |
MEL; MANY OF US WITNESSED JOE FRAZIERS ILL FATED ATTEMPT AT SINGING. HE REALLY THOUGHT HE COULD BECOME A VEGAS LOUNGE ACT. I SAW HIM BUTCHER EDDIE FLOYDS "KNOCK ON WOOD" ON THE MIKE DOUGLAS SHOW OR SOMETHING. ON THE OTHER HAND...I DON'T THINK THAT EDDIE WOULD HAVE FAIRED WELL AGAINST ALI EITHER...STU
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 02:27 pm: |
Mel,
By the way, James Toney played Joe Frazier in the Ali film with Will Smith! Let me see if I can get Jackie on the forum! She'll be able to answer all your questions. She's also a Mumford High School alumnus!
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.61) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
Stu,
I know what your saying,
the thing with our sometimes crazy world on the rare/northern soul scene is that regardless of some of the average sounding vocals(and I am in know way criticising anyone in paticular,as I am a mere fan and applaud people getting up there and having a go,within reason).
But a lot of the dancers by pass the vocals and go with the beat,and believe me stu,after 30 years on the all-nighter scene,theres been a few dodgy ones.
How can anyone try to follow Eddie Floyds superb Knock on Wood.(MY PERSONAL OPINION ONLY).
cheers stu.
MILLIE.
Please forgive my ignorance,
can you please send my best wishes to Jackie Kallen.
And I want an autograph when the film is released,a signed pic so I can pick you out on the film.
Regards,
mel.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.76) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 02:52 pm: |
I Forgot to mention
The Brown Bomber,
The Great,
Joe Louis.
regards,
Mel.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.67) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 03:46 pm: |
Millie,
that would be great if you got Jackie on the forum.
I have yet to see the Ali film,but was impressed by Will Smith on some clips that I have seen.
Best,
MEL.
| By Mark Speck (65.58.51.210) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 09:29 pm: |
The other record by Joe Frazier was "The Bigger They Are", on the Cloverlay label.
Best,
Mark
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.107) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 11:55 pm: |
Thanks Mark,
I was about to put it on,
are you sure your not british?
MEL.
| By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 12:00 am: |
RALPH; YOU GOTTA BE IMPRESSED HOW WE KEEP BRINGING THIS BOXING THREAD BACK TO MUSIC!!! STU
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 02:21 am: |
MILLIE; GREETINGS! INTERESTING INFO ON THE JACKIE K. CONNECTION! WILL LOOK FOR YOU IN THE MOVIE. IN THAT YOU POSESS KNOWLEDGE OF THE DETROIT BOXING SCENE, DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW PRENTISS BYRD? HE HAS BEEN A BIG PART OF THE THOMMY HEARNS/KRONK MANAGEMENT TEAM SINCE THE BEGINNING. HE WAS A PAL OF MINE THAT I USED TO PLAY BASKETBALL WITH, AND HE, I, FRANK HALL (ONE OF MELVIN FRANKLINS OLDEST AND CLOSEST FRIENDS), AND OTHERS WOULD DO HOOPS EVERY WEEKEND. THANKS FOR ANY INFO RE PRENTISS AND WHAT HE IS DOING NOW...STU
| By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 09:53 am: |
Hey Stu,
Boxing and music. It's all about " hits "'
| By Frankj (212.159.70.184) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:08 am: |
It's OK Mel. I can keep yor weak spot a secret.
Fightin' Frankie J
| By Keith Herschell (213.122.38.20) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:58 am: |
I had to add my 2 pence/cents worth on this topic. I am not sure if it is the same person, but an Emile Griffiths made a record. Is it the former welterweight champion of the world ? He was a good fighter. My 2 great passions in life are soul music and boxing, and every week I am out pursuing one or the other. I used to box as an amateur for a club in london, and am now involved with running that and am on the London council of the ABA. A boxer that we nurtured from 10 years old, David Haye has just turned pro at Heavyweight and is destined for high honors; he won a silver medal at the world championships last year.
Thomas Hearns was the best fighter for me in recent years. I took great satisfaction when he sent Duran into oblivion with that left hook (I never forgave him for beating Ken Buchanan in such a dirty fashion) But the greatest of all time. That has to be Sugar Ray Robinson,the man had it all; ,he could box, he could fight, and every punch he threw counted.
AND HE WAS FROM DETROIT.
If any soul fans want to watch some great amateur boxing in London, I would be delighted to arrange it.
PS: Ralph, I apologise. I know this isn't a boxing forum, but I have also introduced a few boxing people to Soul music.
| By David Meikle (213.122.63.92) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:13 am: |
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.102) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:14 am: |
Many thanks
Fightin, Frankiej.
MEL.
| By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:32 am: |
Keith,
The Emile Griffiths who had a few singles in the
sixties ( on Columbia and on Tangerine, Ray Charles' label) IS the boxer.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:43 am: |
KEITH; I DONT RECALL ANY RECORDINGS BY WELTERWEIGHT EMILE GRIFFITH. GRIFFITH OF COURSE IS MOST FAMOUS FOR HIS DEVISTATING KNOCKOUT OF CUBAN FIGHTER BENNY "THE KID" PARET, WHICH RESULTED IN PARET'S DEATH. PARET HAD REFERRED IN A NEGATIVE WAY TO GRIFFITH'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION PRIOR TO THE FIGHT. GRIFFITH HAD VOWED TO DESTROY HIM IN THE RING...WHICH HE DID. THAT FIGHT WAS ACTUALLY ON TELEVISION WHICH I WITNESSED AS A YOUTHFUL FIGHT FAN. ALSO, BACK TO PROMOTER DON KING. IF YOU SAW THE HBO MOVIE ON HIM, HE WAS CLOSELY INVOLVED WITH THE GREAT SINGER LLOYD PRICE "MR. PERSONALITY". THEY WERE BEST FRIENDS AND PARTNERS IN A CONCERT IN AFRICA IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE ALI-FORMAN FIGHT. I BELIEVE THE SPINNNERS WERE BROUGHT TO AFRICA ALONG WITH OTHERS FOR THAT SHOW. MANY PROBLEMS AROSE AND KING'S FRIEND PRICE GOT "SCREWED" AS MOST OF DON KING'S ASSCOCIATES END UP. KING CAME OUT SMELLING "LIKE A ROSE". PRICE REMAINS BITTER TO THIS DAY...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.102) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:46 am: |
Didnt he do GOING GOING GONE
ON Tangerine records.
Another rare/Northern soul sound from around 1971.
MEL.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.86) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
Just for the record,
lets not forget a few british boxers.
Bob Fitzsimmons
Bombadier billy wells
Bruce Woodcock
John Conteh
Ken Buchannan
Terry Downes
Ted Kid Lewis
Jack kid Berg
Alan Rudkin
Chris Finnegan
etc,etc,etc.
Regards,
MEL.
P.S.
And the guy who nobelised the sport,
The Marquis Of Queensbury.
Back to the Music.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 01:08 pm: |
MEL; HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY FORGET THE LEGENDARY HENRY COOPER...ONE OF THE FEW FIGHTERS TO ACTUAllY KNOCK DOWN THE THEN CASSUIS CLAY...DESPITE THE FACT THAT CLAY (ALI) CLAIMED THAT HIS ATTENTION WAS DISTRACTED WHEN HE SAW ELIZABETH TAYLOR SITTING AT RINGSIDE, TURNED TO SMILE AT HER AND GOT CAUGHT WITH A GLANCING BLOW KNOCKING HIM TO THE SEAT OF HIS SHORTS. CLAY THEN ABRUPTLY ENDED THE FIGHT BY KNOCKING COOPER OUT...STU
| By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 01:12 pm: |
Mel,
"Going Going Gone " - yes that's Emile Griffiths.
I haven't heard it but it looks a bit "obvious"
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.86) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 01:19 pm: |
Stu,
Henry cut to easy,I should of mentioned him,
as he won 3 lonsdale belts outright.
Davie,
theres another version as well,I think you will know it/them once you heard them.
Mel.
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:43 pm: |
Mel,
Jackie thinks the world of
Lennox Lewis...she also said to tell you that Emanuel Steward is now managing him!
| By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 05:01 pm: |
MEL & MILLIE; LENNOX LEWIS HAS BROUGHT A TOUCH OF "CLASS" TO THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION. WHERE DOES HE RANK AMONG HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING IMMORTALS??? HARD TO TELL. HE DOES MAKE MY TOP 10...BUT BARELY, DUE TO THE LACK OF GREAT COMPETITION IN THAT DIVISION AT THIS TIME. HIS TRUE TEST MAY COME IF AND WHEN HE MEETS VLADIMIR KLETCHKO...DEFEATS HIM...AND KLETCHKO GOES ON TO GAIN THE TITLE HIMSELF IN AN IMPRESSIVE FASHION. HE MUST PASS...IN MY OPINION...ALI, LOUIS, MARCIANO, FOREMAN, FRAZIER, (JACK) JOHNSON, DEMPSEY, TUNNEY, AND LARRY HOLMES...STU
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 05:22 pm: |
Mel,
Oops...Emanuel Steward is training Lennox, not managing him. Sorry!
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 09:32 pm: |
Hey Stu!
How are you going to look for me in the movie when you don't know what I look like??!! LOL Yes, I've seen Prentiss many times over the years. I was fortunate enough to be invited to Tommy Hearns 40th birthday party last year...that was the last time I saw Prentiss who still looks good! Do you remember Bill Kozerski? He and Prentiss were partners for awhile along with Jackie. Did you know Jackie's brother Skip Kaplan?
| By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 09:51 pm: |
MILLIE; ACTUALLY, I WAS JUST GOING TO LOOK FOR THE MOST GORGEOUS AND VOLUPTUOUS CREATURE IN THE FLICK, AND I FIGURE THAT IT MUST BE YOU! ALSO, IF YOU'LL TELL US WHERE AND WHEN TO LOOK IT MAY HELP. GLAD TO HEAR THAT PRENTISS IS DOING GOOD AND LOOKING WELL. I WOULD OFTEN SEE HIM IN THE CORNER DURING TELEVISED AND PAY PER VIEW FIGHTS. HE TURNED A RELATIVELY SMALL INVESTMENT INTO QUITE A SUCCESSFUL ENTERPRISE. I DON'T KNOW THE OTHER'S YOU MENTIONED BY NAME, HOWEVER, THE LAST TIME I SAW PRENTISS WAS PROBABLY LATE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S AT L'SPIRIT...KATHY DUROSS FORD'S CLUB IN DOWNTOWN DETROIT...ONE OF MY OLD HAUNTS... STU
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:11 pm: |
Dearest Stu,
Yes, you are quite right...next to Meg Ryan, I am the best looking woman in the movie. Well, then again, Jackie does have a bit part, and she's gorgeous too, so maybe I'm the third best looking. Oh...and there are all the young women who are "hanging around" with the promoters and fighters, so maybe I'm the 8th or 9th best looking woman in the movie. Oh never mind!!!!
| By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:17 pm: |
YEA MILLIE; BUT HOW MANY OF THEM CAN LOOK BOTH SEXY AND SOPHISTICATED WITH A SLICE OF ROCKY'S PIZZA HANGING OUT OF THEIR PIE HOLE...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.80) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 12:06 am: |
Millie,
many than ks for that,and please send my best to Jackie.Is there any chance of her coming to the forum?
Stu
I agree Lennox Lewis is good,
but I must disagree regards putting him in the top 10 of heavyweights.(this is only my personal opinion buddy).As you so rightly say,the Heavyweight Division today isnt a patch on years ago.
Cheers,
Mel.
| By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 02:21 am: |
O.K. GOOD BUDDY...HERE GOES!!!LET'S CALL THIS POST "STANDING IN THE SHADOW BOXING OF MOTOWN", JUST TO KEEP RALPH OFF OUR ASS!!! LENNOX LEWIS HAS FOUGHT AND BEATEN EVERY CONTENDING HEAVYWEIGHT TO COME ALONG DURING HIS ERA. HE EVEN BEAT EVANDER HOLYFIELD TWICE ... I DON'T CARE WHAT THE JUDGES SAID (JUST SOME MORE DON KING CRAP). EVEN THE "INVINCIBLE" RIDDICK BOWE WOULD HAVE JUMPED ON THE SPACE SHUTTLE TO AVOID HAVING TO FIGHT LENNOX. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MARCIANO...EVERY OTHER GREAT HAS LOST MORE THAN ONCE...BUT JOE LOUIS WAS ABOUT 86 YEARS OLD WHEN HE LOST TO MARCIANO. HOW CAN WE NOT RECOGNIZE WHAT HE HAS ACCOMPLISHED WHEN THE LACK OF COMPETITION IS NOT HIS FAULT? PERHAPS HE IS MORE DEVISTATING THAN WE THINK, AND HE JUST MAKES IT LOOK EASY OVER SOME PRETTY GOOD COMPETITION. IMAGINE...AN AMERICAN HAVING TO MAKE A CASE FOR A BRIT AGAINST ANOTHER BRIT...WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO???...STU
| By keith Herschell - London (213.122.108.132) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:21 am: |
David
Thanks for that website. What a gem. I was even able to look at the records of some of my old friends. It lists some really obscure boxers who had only a few fights.
Stu
At the risk of being pedantic, Clay/Ali did not knock henry Cooper out, but stopped him on bad cuts to his eye, which he repeated in their return fight in 66.
And talking of UK heavyweights, don't forget Tommy Farr who took the GREAT Joe Louis the distance.
I watched the Barrera/Tapia fight the other week.
What a fight! Barrera oozed class and hit tapia with everything, but couldn't stop him coming forward. Barrera is one class act.
UK fight fans watch out for 2 boys from South London,David Walker and Matthew Thirlwall. They are dynamite.
| By Boxing Fan (63.188.33.228) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:58 am: |
The best bantamweight of all time: Carlos Zarate who was robbed in the fight that broke his long winning streak.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.105) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 10:06 am: |
Stu,
point taken.
Mel.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.42) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 10:29 am: |
Stu,
a lot of what you are saying is right,and no way am I taking anything away from Lennox Lewis,
But there is no way you can compare the Heavyweight division of today with the heavyweight division of years gone past.
Your trying to tell me that lewis would hold his own with some of the fighters from the earlier years.
The heavyweight division is not a patch on the 60s or 70s(let alone earlier years)personally I think its a farce today,and prefer to watch the lighter weights where you get a solid and goold fight throughout,unless you are in the class of a chavez or the like.
Dont get me wrong here,you can only fight what is around,and to me personally,Lennox would find it hard going in with the likes of a Don Quarry,who was no slouch,but in the days of the quarrys there were so many around that would give you an honest hard fight.
Lets not forget holyfield was a blown up light heavy,I am in no way knocking anyone here,but lets be realistic stu!Lennox is a breath of fresh air,and has done the buisness,apart from that once.
And Keith herschell,right on,I thought I had mentioned Tommy Farr,another great brit.
Looking forward to your reply,stu.
Mel(still bobbin'an'weavin').
Lets get some music on here,
Before Ralph rings the bell!
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.49) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 11:13 am: |
MUSIC INTERLUDE!
Wasnt there another version of Joe Fraziers
1st Round Knock-out by a group called
New Censation or something like that.
That was also K.O.'D Like Mr.Fraziers track.
Stu!
just been on the pads,rope,bag and speed ball,
and anticipating your reply buddy.
Mel(last 10,push it out).
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 02:01 pm: |
RAT-A-TAT-TAT..."LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER LOVE T.K.O." (FOR THE MUSIC LOVERS). KEITH; YOUR SCENERIO ON THE ENDING OF CLAY-COOPER SOUNDS ABSOLUTLY CORRECT...T.K.O. THANKS FOR THE INPUT. MEL; CHAVEZ...HE WAS THE MAN...UNFORTUNATLY HIS BIG MISTAKE WAS...WHAT ELSE? HOOKING UP WITH DON KING...NOW I UNDERSTAND HE'S IN SERIOUS FINANCIAL TROUBLE. SHOOK HIS HAND ONCE ON HIS FIRST TRIP TO L.A. TO FIGHT AT THE FORUM. RAN INTO HE AND HIS ENTOURAGE AT THE HOTEL ACROSS FROM THE FORUM. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE "GOLDEN BOY" ? HE CERTAINLY PUT VARGAS IN HIS WELL DESERVED PLACE. DONT WANT TO RAMBLE TOO LONG. THE GUY WHO SCARES ME IS KLETCHKO. LOOKS LIKE HE'S RIGHT OUT OF A ROCKY MOVIE...BUT THE GUY CAN FIGHT. THAT COULD BECOME LENNOX LEWIS ULTIMATE TEST AND CHANCE FOR ETERNAL RESPECT. LEWIS IS SO SMART THAT WHEN THEY WERE FILMING THE "ALI " MOVIE...LEWIS AND KLETCHKO ACTUALLY GOT INTO THE RING TOGETHER OVER A TWO DAY PERIOD. OBSERVERS SAY THAT LEWIS CONVINCED THE RUSSIAN TO DISPLAY HIS REAL MOVES IN THE RING, WHILE LEWIS SPARRED NOTHING LIKE HE WOULD NORMALLY FIGHT...GETTING A CHANCE TO GET A FEEL FOR THE REAL KLECHKO IN PREPERATION FOR THEIR REAL FIGHT. LET'S HOPE THAT ONE HAPPENS...GOTTA RUN...BUNKERS AWAIT...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.29) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
Stu,
Vargas got his just deserts,
but what a fight.
Chavez now were talking baby,there was a record on the rare/northern soul scene by a guy called chavez(mmmmm,I wonder,could it be?)
No,this guy was a Freddie Chavez,lets keep the sounds alive stu,or this thread is outahere.
Thanks for the feed back stu,
Mel(McDuff)
p.s.
REMEMBER STU!its straight down the middle.
KEEP OUT THE BUNKERS.(HO,HO).
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.86) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 03:45 pm: |
Millie,
what an absolute great nickname that is,
James "Light's Out" Toney.
Mel.
p.s.
please let Jackie know Im asking about her.
| By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 09:23 pm: |
MEL; CAUGHT A COUPLE OF BUNKERS...NO PROBLEM BUT THREE PUTTS KILLED ME! HEY...DO YOU MEAN "JERRY " QUARRY OF THE QUARRY BROTHERS. JERRY IS THE ONE THAT GOT KNOCKED AROUND THE RING BY EVERY TOP HEAVYWEIGHT DURING THE 60'S ON INTO THE 80"S...LITERALLY GOT HIS BRAINS SCRAMBLED. HAVE YOU NOTICED THE DIFFERING STYLES BETWEEN BRITTISH, AMERICAN, AND MEXICAN FIGHTERS? IT SEEMS THAT BRITTISH FIGHTERS ARE HEAD HUNTERS PRIMARILY, WHILE MEXICAN FIGHTERS ARE BIG BODY PUNCHERS. AMERICANS FALL SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. THANKS FOR *NOT* MENTIONING " PRINCE NASEEM HAMID"...OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS. I THINK THAT HE IS A JOKE. AT LEAST JORGE "MARIMARO" PAEZ KISSES HIS OPPONENT AFTER HE ACTS LIKE AN ASS IN THE RING. TALK TO YOU LATER...MILLIE; WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THAT PIZZA OUT OF YOUR MOUTH AND GIVE US SOME INPUT HERE???...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.75) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:02 am: |
Stu,
took your time in realising that little
wind up there mate about El Quarro!(ho,ho).
I saw the Piaz fight,another value for money scrap.Agree about the crap he was doing in the ring,I think Hes had a few fights too many!
S.O.S.
MILLIE WHERE ARE YOU!
Mel.
p.s.
Prince Who?
keeping on the music theme.
Remember Prince La-La.(getting desperate now for musical connections stu).
| By Keith Herschell - London (213.122.34.237) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 07:26 am: |
Mel
You are right,the original version of "First round knockout" was by New Censation. I believe Van McCoy wrote and produced, and it's a pretty good record. I remember hunting it out as a result of reading Dave Godin heaping praise on it, which I always found to be a good indication of a records quality. The only time I have been really disapointed with a DG recommendation was
'Autumn of your tomorrow' by The Crow. What is that all about? It's awful.
Stu
You mention the differing national boxing styles.
I have always thought that the Mexican boxers are the nearest thing to boxing perfection. Even the most mediocre Mexican fighters are good. I went to watch Carlos Palamino spar when he came over to Box John H Stracey. He was not given much credence before the fight, but I thought he would beat Stracey. I have always thought that American boxers rely on hooks and uppercuts more than UK boxers, who work behind the jab more. I also think there is a tenedancy to view the past through rose coloured glasses. In the early/mid thirties, before Joe Lewis, there was a dearth of heavyweights. When Max Baer was champion he used to call his fights "Bum of the month competion".
One of the real differences between then and now is that there are no real hungry fighters in the UK and USA. Back then there were many good Jewish boxers. I doubt whether there is one now. Which possibly brings us back to why there are so many good Mexican fighters.
Keith
| By Millie (68.40.209.129) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 07:59 am: |
Hi Mel,
I'm here, but not for long. I don't appreciate the comments Stubass has been making. I don't find them funny or appropriate. Email me when you get a chance.
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.70) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:19 am: |
Millie,
I really hope your not leaving us,not when Im getting to know you,and Im sure StuBass hasnt meant to hurt you in any way.Anyway I will E.Mail you if that is allright with you millie.
Keith.
I agree entirely what you say regards Dave Godin and I remember when The Crow was reviewed by him.
And as yourself was expecting great things,
but even to this day,I still dont know where dave was coming from with that terrible sound.
I Know its all about personal opinion,but lets get real here.Your Autumn of Tomorrow,then and today,most certainly not for me,in any way,shape or form.
Mel.
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:18 am: |
KEITH; AS YOU SAY...MEXICAN FIGHTERS BY AND LARGE ARE "WARRIORS". A LOT OF IT IS DUE TO THE POVERTY RAMPANT IN THAT COUNTRY, AND BOXING AS ONE'S ONLY WAY OUT OF THE CYCLE. SAME REASON FOR SO FEW JEWISH FIGHTERS TODAY...ECONOMICS. DURING THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY IN AMERICA, JEWS, ITALIANS, IRISH, ETC. WERE RECENT IMMIGRANTS WHO WERE THEN THROWN INTO THE DEPTH'S OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION. BLACKS WERE NOT GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY AT THAT TIME TO FIGHT FOR TITLES OR DODGED BY THE PREVAILING WHITE CHAMPION. JOE LOUIS REALLY STARTED TO CHANGE THAT, AND LIKE JACKIE ROBINSON IN BASEBALL, ALLOWED OTHER BLACKS TO MOVE UP IN THE BOXING RANKS DUE TO HIS EXEMPLARY BEHAVIOR OUTSIDE OF THE RING. CHAVEZ HAD THIS ONE MOVE WHERE HE LEADS WITH HIS RIGHT FOOT WHICH HE PLACES INSIDE HIS OPPONENTS LEFT FOOT, THEN WOULD EITHER RIGHT HOOK TO THE HEAD OR BODY...OR THROW A RIGHT UPPERCUT...BEAUTIFUL MOVE, BUT TOTALLY NON-CONVENTIONAL IN ACCEPTED BOXING METHODOLOGY. MEL; PLEASE EXCUSE ME FOR NOW AS I MUST DIGEST SOME "CROW" ON MY NEXT POST!!! STU
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:32 am: |
HEY MILLIE; PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF I HAVE SAID ANYTHING TO OFFEND YOU IN ANY WAY. I THINK WHAT YOU MAY BE REFERRING TO WAS SIMPLY A GOOD NATURED ATTEMPT AT HUMOR, BASED ON OUR MUTUAL APPRECIATION OF A CERTAIN PIZZ//..NEVER MIND..IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER, AND I REALLY SHOULDNT HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF OTHER THAN TO APOLOGIZE IF YOU IN ANY WAY FEEL OFFENDED. IF YOU SHOULD BE SO GRACIOUS TO ACCEPT MY APOLOGY, THEN IN THE FUTURE PLEASE DON'T HESITATE IF YOU FEEL THAT I HAVE OVERSTEPPED MY BOUNDS AND GONE BEYOND BASIC HUMAN DECENCY TO PLEASE LET ME KNOW! YOUR HUMBLE SERVANT...STUBASS
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:52 am: |
KEITH AGAIN; ACTUALLY, IT WAS JOE LOUIS WHO FOUGHT HIS LEGENDARY "BUM'S OF THE MONTH". AND SPEAKING OF MAX BAER, HIS GREATEST CLAIM TO FAME IN MY OPINION, IS GIVING THE WORLD MAX BAER JR. A.K.A. JETHRO BODINE OF THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES WHO NOW LIVES IN LAS VEGAS...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.7) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:49 pm: |
Stu,
pass granny's moonshine over
and lets have a party.
Mel.
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 03:58 pm: |
MEL; I'LL PASS THE MOONSHINE ONCE I GET OUT OF THE CEE-MENT POND!!! WE CAN INVITE ELLIE MAE OVER FOR ME...MISS HATHAWAY FOR YOU...AND LISTEN TO SOME FLATT & SCRUGGS BLUEGRASS PICKIN. YA- HOO...SOUNDS LIKE A PARTY TO ME!!!...STU
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 11:26 am: |
MEL; I WONDER IF "GRANNY" WAS NIPPIN AT THE OLD JUG WHILE SHE WAS CUTTING THE VOCAL TRACK FOR MOTOWN...UNDER THE NAME IRENE RYAN???...STU
| By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 11:59 am: |
Anymore I put boxing in the same catagory as pro wrestling,an evenings worth of guys hitting each other.
When I see a boxer with a win in the ring that anyone can see, be declared the loser by the ring judges in the olympics,in golden gloves,and the pros,that tells me the fix is really wide-spread.
The only fighter that should be above all others is Mohamed Ali in his PRIME. The reason I say this is he had the natural ability to ruin the focus of a boxers punch by moving his head back just enough to take the steam out. This is something that is stressed by most karate senseis as a good way to beat your foe and it takes years sometimes to get it down just right.Ali had that naturally plus his blinding speed.There of course was stronger punchers but they would have had to wait till Ali was older to make much of an effect on him.
I feel I can comment on this subject as I,ve been studying Shotokan karate for 36 years now.{and at my age I'm just happy to be able to ruin my opponents focus,then run my ass off!}
SLAINTE VA, LYNN
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.48) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
Stu,
nice one mate!
Mel(drinkin'wine-spo-dee-odee,
drinkin'wine!bop,bop).
| By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 12:05 pm: |
LYNN; ALI WAS THE "GREATEST". THOMMY HEARNS ALSO USED TO KEEP HIS HEAD WAY BACK TO LESSEN THE BLOW OF HIS OPPONANT, WITH A LOT OF HIS WEIGHT ON HIS BACK FOOT. ONLY WHEN HE WENT TOE TO TOE WITH MARVIN HAGLER, FORGETTING HIS OLD STRATEGY, DID HE GET HIS CLOCK CLEANED...STU
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.55) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 12:20 pm: |
Lynn,
I would appreciate your thoughts and opinions on the sport of
Knock Down Karate.
My brother was picked in this sport to represent England against Poland and others.
He still does martial arts as well as all variants of boxing,but also mainly trains youngsters in martial arts etc these days.
I have done a bit,but no where in your class or my brothers.
Regards,
Mel.
Keeping on a musical theme.
Didnt Scatman Crothers (the voice,I think, of Hong Kong Phooey,also record some 45s at some time).
| By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 01:43 pm: |
Mel,we're getting off the music info,but here's my opinion. Your brother gets much respect from me, being selected says it all.
Shotokan karates idea is one strike,one kill. That means in a tournament if you DO pull your punch,the judges may not award you the match(they didn't see it, or are of a dfferent style, or just don't like you) AND if you DON'T pull your punch or kick, you'll be disqualified or possibly kill the person.
Pretend fighting was never supposed to be a part of karate according to the old masters.
In tournaments you'll find lightweight very fast fighters winning matches that if were in the street would have been killed or the very least have many broken bones by stronger slower fighters.
What your brothers doing shows the judges who really does have the best fighting ability. But unless it's to the death I.E.cartoid artery blows,and other better left unsaid techniques it's still hard to say who would really win.
How in the hell did we get on this subject instead of music?
| By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 01:55 pm: |
LYNN; EVERYBODY WAS "KUNG FU FIGHTING"...IT IS..."A LITTLE BIT FRIGHTENING"...STU
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 02:03 pm: |
KARATE - can destroy an opponent with just a few well-chosen hits
KARAOKE - can destroy a hit with just a few ill-chosen notes ;o)
| By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.119) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 02:40 pm: |
Lynn,
many many thanks for that, I take all the blame for taking you away from the music,apologies to all.
Hey Ritchie,
never a truer word said mate!
Mel.
P.S.
Lynn,
Please tell the count I was asking if you see him,and to e.mail me if he gets the chance.
With my thanks.
Mel.
| By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 09:19 am: |
"KNOCK YOU OUT"(with love)
DAVID RUFFIN.
"COUNT"
| By Soul Sister (65.43.153.219) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 04:46 pm: |
Ernie Terrell the boxer is one of many celebrities who use come by the Wagon Wheel Club on 45th. Street in N.Y.C. back in 1966, I guess he too was a fan of Sammy Ambrose, whose goup was the house band, as well as Tommy Hunt, Hank Ballard, members of the Jive Five, B.J. Thomas, etc...would stop by. Back down memory lane.