By Joe (206.67.96.85) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:23 pm:

I want to make a documentary of where the famous Motown people lived. Can anyone help me out with some interesting information?

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:27 pm:

Hey Joe,
I have been on the hunt for some info of that nature myself..If you find out anything let me know ..Out here in LA we have Maps to the Stars homes, I think it would be a great book idea to do The Famous Motowners as well. If such a book exists I have yet to find it..

Vickie
TammiProject@aol.com

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:42 pm:

JOE & VICKIE; THAT WAS THE NICE THING ABOUT THE MOTOWN ARTIST'S. THEY LIVED AMONG US. SMOKEY ROBINSON LIVED ON SANTA BARBARA BETWEEN CAMBRIDGE & W. OUTER DR, BEFORE MOVING TO SOUTFIELD. BERRY GORDY OF COURSE LIVED ON MONICA & W. OUTER DR, WHERE BOTH CHRIS CLARK AND DIANA ROSS LIVED WITH HIM THERE FOR A WHILE( NOT AT THE SAME TIME ). INTERESTING STORY ABOUT B.G....BEFORE HE PURCHASED THE WEST OUTER DR. HOUSE, HE WANTED TO PURCHASE A HOUSE IN THE SHERWOOD FOREST AREA ACROSS LIVERNOIS WHICH WAS MORE OF A "WHITE ONLY" ENCLAVE. ALTHOUGH THE HOME OWNERS WERE SYMPATHETIC, AND BERRY OFFERED MORE MONEY THAN ANYONE ELSE...THERE WAS APPARENTLY AN UNWRITTEN PACT AMONGST THE NEIGHBORS THAT NO ONE WOULD BE THE "FIRST" TO INTEGRATE THE NEIGHBORHOOD...THUS, BG HAD TO SETTLE FOR HIS SECOND CHOICE. I REMEMBER PAUL WILLIAMS APARTMENT OVER A STOREFRONT ON WOODWARD AVE, BEFORE HE MOVED TO N.W. DETROIT. JUMMY RUFFIN WAS A NEIGHBOR OF MINE AT 1300 LAFAYETTE IN LAFAYETTE PARK, ETC, ETC. MANY OF YOU I'M SURE WILL REMEMBER WHERE AND WHEN MOTOWN ARTISTS LIVED AROUND THE CITY...BUT NORTHWEST DETROIT SEEMED TO BE THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF CHOICE DURING THE 60'S...STU

By MelsMate (195.219.7.64) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:46 pm:

Stu,
your the man!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:48 pm:

In addition to the West Outer Drive residence, there was the Gordy Manor over on West Boston Boulevard. This is where BG and the family would host fundraisers, parties and other community/industry functions. It had a large swimming pool in the back as well as an underground connection which led to an English-style pub.
Regards,
KevGo

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:49 pm:

StuBass,
Where did Tammi & David live? I have conflicting info that she had a few places, then people tell me she just had the one place she shared with David..She was in Detroit 65-67 because it was late '67 she got sick...After that she was back in Philly more often....

Vickie

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:44 pm:

Stevie Wonder used to live on Greenlawn just south of Curtis (about half a block from Bagley school). Marvin Gaye used to live on Outer Drive at the corner of Monica or Stoepel or one of those streets (my piano teacher lived next door).

By DEBORAH (63.77.247.13) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:45 pm:

Hi Joe,

I can tell you where the "Tops" lived. Our family
(Levi Stubbs)lived on Santa Barbara between 7 mile
and Curtis. Duke lived on Pennington and 7 mile.
Lawrence lived on San Juan and Curtis and Obie
lived on San Juan also.

If I'm correct in saying so, I believe Smokey
lived on San Juan near Outer Drive also.


Deborah Stubbs-Boatner

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 06:17 pm:

GREETINGS; DEBORAH, HOW NICE TO TALK TO YOU. SMOKEY LIVED ON SANTA BARBARA BETWEEN CAMBRIDGE AND W OUTER DRIVE. I LIVED LESS THAN A BLOCK AWAY AND USED TO HANG OUT AT HIS HOUSE WITH HIS NEPHEW CLIFFORD, AND HELPED HIS VALET...GAYLORD...WASH HIS CAR. STEVE...RIGHT ABOUT STEVIE. HIS BROTHER CALVIN WAS A CLASSMATE OF MINE. MARVINS HOUSE ON W OUTER DR. WAS ACTUALLY BERRY GORDYS OLD HOUSE. VICKIE; I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE DAVID AND TAMMI LIVED...BUT I THINK IT WAS IN THE "OLD NEIGHBORHOOD"...IN THAT I DONT THINK THAT HOUSING WAS HIGH ON DAVID'S SPENDING PRIORITY LIST. KIM WESTIN ADN MICKEY STEVENSON ALSO LIVED IN THE "OLD NEIGHBORHOOD". I WAS AT THEIR HOUSE ONCE FOR SOMETHING...STU

By StingBeeLee (68.43.129.202) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:08 pm:

SteveS, Berry Gordy and Marvin Gaye lived on Outer Drive and Monica, the southwest corner house. SteveS, I'm guessing, but did your piano teacher live on the corner of Santa Rosa and Outer Drive, in a two story brown brick house? There's a piano teacher there who's taught there for over 30 years.

By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:10 pm:

Seems like nearly all of the Motown artists were west siders.

By Sue (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:17 pm:

I was at David Ruffin's house in maybe '76 for a party one time; it was a brick house on Outer ...not a ranch but a bungalow.

By Jody (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:31 pm:

I knew David for many years. He lived at 17385 Parkside when I first met him. Jimmy also lived there with him for awhile.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:51 pm:

STINGBEE; I THINK THAT THE PIANO TEACHER YOU REFER TO WAS MY SCHOOLHOOD FRIEND MARK BAYOFF'S MOTHER. SHE WAS A VERY ATTRACTIVE LADY & IS ACTUALLY THE PERSON WHOSE FRIEND GOT US THE BEATLES TICKETS...STU

By SteveS (68.41.251.33) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

Lee - I thought the that the piano teacher lived on the SW corner of Outer Dr & ??? and Marvin lived across the side street on the SE corner. Santa Rosa sounds about right. I'll have to drive by and take a look to be sure. Stu, I think her last name was Marx. On the other hand, I can't remember where I put my glasses 3 minutes ago.
SteveS

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:48 pm:

STEVES; THATS HER. SHE WAS DIVORCED AND HER SON TOOK HIS FATHERS NAME, AND MARX WAS HER LAST NAME. SHE LIVED IN A HOUSE THAT BELONGED TO HER PARENTS. HER SON MARK, WAS MY COHORT IN MY EARLY MUSICAL TRAVELS, INCLUDING TEMPTS PERFORMANCES, THE BEATLES, ETC. WE WERE MEMBERS OF THE "RENOUNED" "PLAYBOYS" OF PASTEUR DURING THE EARLY 60'S. LOST CONTACT WITH MARK DURING THE LATE 60'S. THEY LIVED ON THE SAME CORNER...SOUTH-WEST ON SANTA ROSA AND W.OUTER DR. AS B.G.& MARVIN ON MONICA...ONE BLOCK AWAY. THE HOUSE BELONGED TO A FAMILY NAMED ZACK BEFORE B.G. BOUGHT IT...STU

By SteveS (68.41.251.33) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:21 am:

Stu - Thanks. This is starting to sound like the shrinking room with the walls that close in and crush you in the old Saturday afternoon horror flicks at the Royal or Varsity. I took the lessons under duress, and regrettably, used every stunt my 8 yr old brain could come up with to avoid practicing.

By SteveS (68.41.251.33) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:24 am:

Stu - Thanks. This is starting to sound like the shrinking room with the walls that close in and crush you in the old Saturday afternoon horror flicks at the Royal or Varsity. I took the lessons under duress, and regrettably, used every stunt my 8 yr old brain could come up with to avoid practicing.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:39 am:

Marvin was on the Southwest corner at Monica. And the house is still georgeous.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 06:30 am:

I don't suppose anybody wants to know where the Motowner fans lived in Hull in the 1960's?? Thought not! Vickie - it would be 'novel' to put a few photo's in your book of US and UK fans from around 1968. I would be happy to supply photos of me as a child playing on my roller skates!! It could say 'Future Motown fan'.

By Vickie (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 10:43 am:

Carl,
I have that in mind...I think it's important to show who loves Tammi. I think that's why this grows..So many love her and want to see this done finally so they are happy to share. I am beginning that phase slowly..I have a huge mountain in front of me with this..But at least I see it. I have compiled a section , perhaps will be a whole chapter of Tammi's fans, their feelings ,their reflections..The things Tammi's fans share are much different than things other people share about their favorite singers..
I get sooooooooooo many people that tell me they feel her or she's in their soul when they hear her voice..Young, old, black, white, military, music fans, granny's, music buffs, teenagers, ect, ect.
So, if you have pics send them along..
sorry to ramble...

"Ain't No Mountain High Enough"

Vickie

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:57 am:

My family lived on San Juan for the first year of my life before my mom got her teaching job in Birmingham and we moved there. Stevie Wonder and Ron Miller used to live in the apartment building I lived in at Third and Pingree. Of course only Stevie was a famous Motown person and the building appeared to be long abandoned the last time I drove by around 5 years ago.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.18) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:33 pm:

I might as well throw in my bizarre two cents worth:

Around 1962, I was going with a lady who worked at Motown. I will not name her. We got in the habit of going up to the Mount Royal Hotel (on Woodward near Owen Avenue) on Friday nights and renting a $5.00 room for the night. This went on for about six months.

The bizarre part is that within walking distance of that hotel, on Owen, was the apartment building in which I was concieved.

I remember being aware of this, and I think that it made me extra careful about what I was doing. No conception resulted from our activities.

Mike McLean

By Vickie (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:37 pm:

Mike - you crack me up

LOL

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.18) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:58 pm:

Thanks, Vickie. Gee! It would be fun if you posted your picture. LOL (lots of luck!) LOL (lots of love) to you too!

It just occured to me that I might as well post the address of the house where I lived during the first 24 years of my life, including the first four years that I worked at Motown:

13335 Prest Avenue
Detroit, MI 48227

Prest is the first block east of Greenfield, and the house is about seven houses south of Schoolcraft, on the west side of the street.

My Dad purchased the house in 1940, while my Mother was in the hospital giving birth to me. He paid $6,600. cash for it. There was no mortgage. They moved from the apartment on Owen to this house. My Father died in 1970, at age 82, and she sold the house in 1976. She died in 1987, at age 78.

I'm age 62, and I'm half dead! My Dad always used to say that he had one foot in the grave, and was living on borrowed time. Now I know what he was talking about. Still, I think I might make 70, simply on the basis that my parents both lived to a ripe old age.

When I retire in January, I plan to focus all my energy on a program to totally clean up my act, healthy living wise. Of course this means no more drinking. I am sure that the Forum will notice a big change in my manner of presentation when this happens.

Mike McLean

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.20) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:04 pm:

Mr.M McClean,
which ever road you take,
brother,
your one hell of a guy,and anyone that
has a signed pic from mel blanc and the gang is my kind of guy.
Keep on keeping on,
Mel(andthensome).

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:36 am:

Vickie - you do not ramble. It is interesting stuff you mention about the book. We are privileged to know you on the forum. As for a photo, I may well be 'tempted' to dig one out and send it to you, as long as you do not think you are receiving a virus from me - ha ha!

By Ccarl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:49 am:

Mike, healthy living - best of luck.

Why not start with the book next year? Your point of view is entertaining for both music and engineering fans. Even the up to date Warner stuff and chance meetings you have had puts a different angle on Motown. Even the forum here, I am convinced, has made people communicate and interface at an unprecedented level. You are part of this elite amalgamation of great people and your stories should be documented in a definitive publication. I am no writer, but if you need suggestions I am happy to comment. I was asked recently to list, from a fans point of view, what I expected to read in an autobiography. I spent considerable time analysing what I wanted to know and submitted it to the Motown singer who asked me for it. This was a privilege for me to be even involved with anything like this. This forum helped me do that, indirectly. It is meant to be Mike. You have to do it. And when Michelle and I eventually get to your neck of the woods, we will treat you to tea and scones in beautiful downtown Burbank � ding � a � ling, and you could show how you are getting along.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.78) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:55 am:

Nice one Carl,
what about it Mr.McClean?
I for one would love to read a book about some of
the amazing things and people that you have done and seen.
Mel(andthensome).

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.60) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:23 pm:

Dear Carl and Mel,

I don't have much time to write, right at this moment, but I appreciate your kind words.

I think that there is a good chance that I will attempt to write my autobiography after I retire. I have wanted to do so for a long time.

One thing that I feel strongly about it that it be a complete autobiography, as opposed to a "My Years At Motown" sort of book.

Of course, it remains to be seen if such a manuscript would actually result in an offer from a publisher. I have my doubts. I would have to write it first. Then the colorful humor might sell the publisher on the project.

Mike McLean

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:31 pm:

Go For It Mike....
A colorful life is a great read for anyone....

Vickie

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:46 pm:

Agreed Mike - the technical and personal years and your perspective before and after leaving Motown would be important. However, the book needs a selling point and I feel an important part of that book would be to include the Motown years or something connected to it in the title, to attract attention in the shops. That type of book would be welcome in my stocking for Xmas, without a doubt. Even if the last chapters were to sum up advancing technology in music and television and even a look at the popular music scene today compared to thirty years ago, it still would be of interest from that angle. Mike, it's food for thought. I wish I were having a career that could possibly write me a book in 20 years time. Motown is the icing on the cake and the boys who did the producing, engineering and even making up the audio leads and making sure they were wired the correct way around so they were not out of phase are just as important from this point of view. I guess what I am saying is that these products whether Vickie�s for Tammi's book or yours, it enhances our knowledge of many things, not just Motown. There is somebody where I work who keeps telling me I should write a book about the music I love from my perspective and where it leads me in my life. Easier said than done, but quite clearly he feels it is of importance to him and the few people interested in this type of product. I think you have so much to say and so many people willing to listen!

Sorry to ramble Mike - you have a way with words and it makes good reading. On some of your posts I am riveted.

Cheers

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.60) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

Check your email, Carl.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:59 pm:

Carl,
I must say you are quite the writer too. You have great insight and ideas & thoughts..Your posts are filled with passion and positivity.
I say Go For It to you too...

Heck, we all need to write a book...
Ralph, Ritchie, Mike, John Lester, Carl - get busy!!!
It's in you...

Vickie

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:03 pm:

Hey, that's my line, Vickie!
KevGo :-)

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:09 pm:

"Kev-go" for it,

you write a book too

Vickie

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.64) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:29 pm:

Theres a lot of people
on this forum that could enlighten a lot
of us by putting pen to paper.
Apart from those mentioned above.
MEL.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:30 pm:

Mel,
Write a book and the some...

Vickie

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:32 pm:

You all help keep me motivated..
So I want to get you motivated....

Vickie

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.64) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:34 pm:

Vickie,
I wasnt referring to myself,it takes me long enough to post on here.
Besides,oh never mind.
Cheers,
mel.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:35 pm:

I love your posts Mel..

Vickie

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 05:50 am:

Vickie - thank you for your comments and encouragement.

I did start writing something a year or so ago. It is very complicated and I am no storyteller, but I know there is something in it - who knows, I may finish it one day. At best I tend to write songs and lyrics using the teaching method I know and understand best - Motown, soul and Philly. These styles have helped me through good and bad times and still work wonders for my moral. Most of my songs have a connection to something else, as you already know. Indirectly I suppose, it is my big thank you to all performers, musicians, writers and those involved who helped my transition from boy to man during my disco days and teenage years. Whilst developing a personality, I was hearing all these soul records and getting tingles down my back. I did not understand why, but it still happens today. I remember hearing 'The language of love/The Intrigues' on Yew records. That harmony from the backing makes me want to cry. I just wonder whether songs today have that power on today�s youth - who knows? Whilst my friends were listening to Deep Purple, The Beatles or Simon and Garfunkel (who I like), I was hooked on reggae and learning about our Jamaican friends. Then soul hit me between the eyes and I was 'hooked for life' and the journey began. It is still a thrill to hear great songs and discover new old ones! This afternoon I am going to see 'Standing in the Shadows of Motown' in central London at 1530hrs, on my own. I will be thinking of the forum and those who feel the same as me about the music and especially about the Funk Brothers past and present who have entertained us so well. I am in their debt as they have encouraged me for 30 years to understand what and how they did it. I will be thinking of my best friend who died 6 years ago who was with me in the clubs and listening to all this music to. He would be thrilled to know the Funks have got their recognition at last � maybe he does know!! I wonder who else will be in the cinema? I will let you all know.

By Vickie (205.188.209.38) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 10:58 am:

Wow, That's all great Carl...
I think there is truer, deeper, meanings to "Soul" music...People connect on a soul level with it, it's more than just liking a song..
It does go to your soul.. I know everyone on this forum knows what I mean..I think
kids of today feel it too..They just have to get exposed to it and like Ralph said on another thread - we have to keep passing the torch.

Cheers,
Vickie

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:14 pm:

I agree Vickie. This movie is helping make that torch lighter and accessible to those who do not know anything about it. I can now say Motown is current, because the tracks from the movie are being played on the radio and the movie is showing - now!! That's not a torch, it's a massive beacon telling the world the sound of a young America stills stands out from the crowd!

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:19 pm:

Carl,
All of that is something much needed in our world today..A BEACON OF
FEEL GOOD MUSIC!

Vickie

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:32 pm:

Amen to that!

BTW, I gave up all ideas of writing a book years ago after the indignity of too many publisher brush-offs. Why d'you think I have a website..? (Now I can write whatever I like - and NO rejections!)

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 03:42 pm:

Ritchie,
that's so Berry Gordy of you...
the smart way..do it your way..your site, your studio, ect, ect...

"if you build it - they will come"
from - Field of Dreams

Vickie

By freddyflat5 (67.243.186.150) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 04:00 pm:

Well, here's my 2cents worth...I grew up in that 'hood myself. Went to MacDowell & Vernor Schools, Presentation Catholic School on Meyers..
Back then, Marvin lived on Appoline, 2nd house North of Cambridge on the West side of the street..saw him frequently at the Zukins Ice Cream Parlor on 7 Mile and Manor..I knocked on his door once when I was about 12 with "I'll Be Doggone" and "One More Heartache" 45's in my hand to ask for his autograph..he came to the door in his boxer shorts and one of those grandpa T-shirts with no sleeves, and I just freaked out and ran. (Met him later and told him that story, & he cracked up...sadly, he was killed less than two weeks after our meeting)

If memory serves me, the Outer Drive house referred to as Berry's was the same house that Marvin later occupied..He always had that White Excalibur parked in the driveway...what a sight...Berry, if I remember, bought it from Al "Doc" Hyman, for whom I was a pall bearer at his passing some years ago..(anybody remember him? there's a book / novel right there!)

Also, later on, I think Diana lived on the corner of Outer Drive & Bretton Drive in beautiful Rosedale Park...it was a hot corner..Leon Spinks at the Northwest, Diana on the Southeast, and I think Howard Porter of the Pistons all at once..

I can testify to the Aretha/ Rev. Franklin house on Sorrento, 'cause I lived at 19966, a few blocks down..(that's the one that's been on the news for it's run-down shoddy condition, with the grass nearing the roof, etc., while she still owned it on paper as of very recently, she never maintained it and caught some hell for it..(maybe she'll move back there, as her Bloomfield Twp. home just burned to the ground...

By freddyflat5 (67.243.186.150) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 04:04 pm:

PS: This reminded me of my old pal, guitarist Marvin Marshall...He lived across from me when I was at 17606 Santa Rosa in the mid-'70's..last time I saw him I was doing some tech work and he was playing with the Tempts....anyone seen him lately? I don't get out much anymore..(ha-ha)

By BankHouseDave (195.93.49.10) on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:10 pm:

Mike McClean. I know a publisher who might have something for you.

By Julian (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 12:51 pm:

When did Diana stay on Outer Drive and Bretton? Not at the same time as Spinks did, surely. When my family moved on Warwick near Bretton Emmanuel Steward was staying on Bretton and Outer Drive. I used to see him and the Kronk boxers all the time. Steward had a red Rolls Royce then, among other vehicles, I presume. That is a nice corner. I heard people say that Spinks lived in the area but never heard any Diana stories. I know she was LONG gone by the time we got there. My mom said she and Diane went to get the Hudsons jobs together. They were friends at Cass Tech. (Did anyone read the stories in the paper on the new Cass Tech and the new perfoming arts high school? Sounds like they will be swell).
Martha Reeves stayed on Townsend before she moved west, right? My fam stayed on Sheridan and Field before we went west. I've heard people say they've seen her on Townsend recently. My uncle sees Emanual Lasky on the Mack bus a lot, he says. He say that Lasky is not in the best of health.

By matt (208.130.56.167) on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 07:52 pm:

i attended hampton elementary school (corner of warrington and margarita, one block east of livernois, two blocks south of seven mile) from '69 to '76, and i'm pretty sure the following motowners had kids there during that period, and so must have lived nearby:
paul williams
eddie kendricks (he caused a big stir by appearing at the school one day)
norman whitfield (lived, i think, in sherwood forest or palmer woods)

also in the neighborhood: gordon staples, who was concert master and first violinist in the detroit symphony orchestra at the time. many dso members lived in the neighborhood. my next-door neighbors were both violinists who did motown sessions.

i attended high school (cranbrook) with lamont dozier's kid...

m

By Joe (206.67.96.85) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 11:52 am:

With the snow meltin I hope to start shooting "Where the lived" I hope to send you a free copy for your help thanks Joe

By joe (206.67.96.85) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 11:55 am:

I meant to write to everyone to offer them a free copy of "Where the lived" but i dont have the hang of this message board sorry

By joe (206.67.96.85) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 11:56 am:

by the way if you have any info left to say that is not listed on this page then speak up now or forever hold your peace