By Moooleey (136.181.195.17) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:22 pm:

Who's the best of all time, it's tough but I'll take your expert opinions.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:36 pm:

OK MOOOLEEY; MOVING IN ON MY TERRITORY! THATS FINE, AND CERTAINLY A WORTHY DISCUSSION. HAVE TO LOVE BOTH GROUPS. LEVI MAY BE THE FINEST VOCALIST OF THEM ALL, BUT HAVE TO NOD TO THE TEMPTS FOR THEIR VERSITILITY, FANTASTIC MATERIAL, LIVE PERFORMANCE, AND CULTURAL ICONISM (IS THERE SUCH A WORD???). HOWEVER, ONE CAN HARDLY ARGUE ANYONES PERSONAL PREFERENCE. IT DOES APPEAR THOUGH, THAT MOTOWN PLACED THE TEMPTATIONS AT THE HIGHEST ORDER, AND PROBABLY VIEWED THE TEMPTS AS A GREATER POTENTIAL PRODUCER OF REVENUE FOR THE COMPANY. PORK RIBS OR BEEF RIBS...IT ALL DEPENDS HOW THEY AR COOKED...STU

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:39 pm:

Tempts or Tops....come on....
That's like comparing chicken & ribs...
Sausage vs. bacon....
Apples or oranges....

Bottom line - they're all good.

Peace,
KevGo

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:42 pm:

The Four Tops stand alone. There is no comparison.

The Classic Temptations stand alone. There is no comparison.

As we were coming up in the 60's we tried to compare, and could not. One day it was the Tops, the next day it was the Tempts. But Levi has a special voice that tears your heart out. But then again, so did David Ruffin.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:00 pm:

This is a subject that cannot be debated. Impossible!

By MelsMate (195.219.7.65) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:09 pm:

Ralph,
thank god for your reply,Mel was about to go crazy,both are second to none.

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:20 pm:

Awe... not fair..
How can a girl or anyone choose this? It's like that song..
"Torn Between Two Lovers"
I am just happy that there are both - let's just put it that way...Levi's voice goes to your soul, David just touches you in that place and then there's Eddie...My My...It's simply 9 men that will never be forgotten wheather they were a Temp or a Top.

Vickie

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:44 pm:

I've never considered one to be better than the other,as far as i am concerned they are right up there with the gods.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.213) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:19 pm:

Consistancy is an important element to consider when evaluating quality. An example of this is the difference between German and American automobles.

Personally, I liked the Temptations best when the late Paul Williams was the lead singer. Their first Motown release, "Check Yourself" backed with "Your Wonderful Love" on MIRACLE M12, was simply fantastic. Later, their sound changed to become more strident. As an early Temps fan, I hardly recognized them during the David Ruffin era.

On the other hand, the Tops have always been a sublime class act, with a consistant sound. "Ask The Lonely" has got to be one of the very greatest pop records ever made.

On the basis of consistancy, I would vote for the Tops.

Mike McLean

By g wiz (68.43.160.189) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:29 pm:

how can you take 2 groups thats never had a flop;and say who's better the temps or the tops,
this is ez best as i can see
you can take the one you want and leave the other for me

glenn lasiuta

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:32 pm:

As a true "Classic" group, if you had to vote, it would have to be the "Classic Four Tops."

MMcLean - I fell in love with the Tempts prior to DRuffin, on the songs you listed above.

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:33 pm:

Perhaps it would be wise to shift the discussion to a less controversial and inflammatory topic, say, Batman v. Superman?

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:38 pm:

LOL@ SteveS

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.13) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:48 pm:

Batman versus Superman?

Now you are on my turf. We at Warner Bros. Animation have been making animated cartoons about both of these characters for many years. The big thing right now is the "Justice League."

If you are interested in my opinion, I think that Wonder Woman is one fine chick!

Mike McLean

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

for Mike, my fellow Warner Bros. friend.
Something of the same when you compare 2 Warner Characters..
how bout this?
Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny?

Vickie

By Gary Rosen (12.234.95.0) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:27 pm:

No contest, Bugs over Mickey any day. In fact, I'll always take Warner Bros. (Bogart, Cagney & Bugs) over Disney or MGM.

- Gary Rosen

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:27 pm:

Gotta be Bugs - Mickey's such a wimp!

But my favourite WB toon is Road Runner. (Would you believe...? I have "Meep Meep" on the PC as my default error sound.)

By Vickie (64.236.243.31) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:28 pm:

Gary,

NICE!

By MelsMate (195.219.7.64) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:32 pm:

Mr.Mike McClean
a walter lantze Cartune(i.e.woody woodpecker)
or
a Mel Blanc warner brothers classic(i.e.daffy duck etc)
Mel Blanc,I Say,
Mel Blanc for me.
yours with affection
Foghorn Leghorn.

By Common (209.2.55.114) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:33 pm:

Different singing styles, different personalites, different presentation. Diversity is good. I love both of these talented groups. :o)

Peace!

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 04:47 pm:

Just a warning: When the WB animation tangent devolves to an "Inki vs. Sniffles" poll, I'll be bailing from the thread.

Just funnin' y'all.

Regards,
Ken

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 06:03 pm:

IMHO, this thread went where it should have, from an impossible comparison to wackoLAND.
Ken, you're killin me...Inki vs. Sniffles??? ROFL

Always one for the underdog (In the less than 2 dimensional animation category):
I'd say Race Banner could easily kick Klutch Kargo's ass, but, Haji played a better Ocarina than Johnny Quest.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 06:36 pm:

OK...YOU GOT ME! SHIRTS VS. SKINS...ALWAYS BET THE SKINS...STU

By TD (12.126.74.86) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 07:41 pm:

How about who was better after the glory Motown days. No doubt the Four Tops. they had many top 40 hits well after Motown.
The classic "When She Was My Girl" was made in the 80's- one of the great songs of all time.
In fact I had it played at my daughter's wedding reception

TD

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 08:21 pm:

TD - That's why the Tops are tops. They were still the original classic Four Tops.

What happened when the Tempts left Motown. Nothing. Because they weren't the Classic Tempts.

What would have happened when the Tempts left Motown, if they had been the Classic Tempts???
Anybody want to try that?

By Sue (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:23 pm:

I won't vote between Tempts and Tops, but "Ask the Lonely" is one of the best songs I've ever heard, and I don't get tired of it ...

That's a Mickey Stevenson production, is it not? And a truly heartfelt vocal, the line "how vainly a heart can yearn ..." is just amazing.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:58 pm:

ONE OF THE THINGS I REMEMBER WITH THE "TOPS" WAS THEIR APPEARANCE AT THE N.B.A. ALL STAR BANQUET AT THE REN-CEN WHICH I WAS INVITED TO ATTEND BACK IN ABOUT 79. THEY WERE THE HEADLINE GROUP FOR THE AFFAIR, AND I REMEMBER THAT WHEN THEY TOOK THE STAGE AND STARTED SINGING...MANY OF THE GUESTS TOOK TO THE DANCE FLOOR LIKE THEY WERE SOME KIND OF DANCE BAND. I THOUGHT THIS WAS VERY RUDE, AND REFUSED TO GO DANCE WITH MY DATE, INSTEAD WATCHING THE PERFORMANCE. I CANT IMAGINE THAT HAPPENING WITH THE TEMPTATIONS, SINCE A LARGE PART OF THEIR PERFORMANCE WAS NOT JUST SINGING, BUT PERFORMING THEIR PATENTED "ROUTINES".
THE TEMPTS...A TRUE "SHOW GROUP"...STU

By TD (12.126.74.86) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:00 pm:

Sue

One of the great individual vocal achievements of all time.
I would put the great I Believe In you and Me by Levi as a close second. Can you believe that he did this 20 years after "Ask The Lonely". Outstanding

TD

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:21 pm:

SUE; "ASK THE LONELY"...A MICKEY STEVENSON / IVY JO HUNTER PRODUCTION. MY BELIEF...MICKEY HAD THE CONNECTIONS AND POWER AT MOTOWN, WHILE IVY HAD LOTS OF LYRICS AND MUSIC...STU

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:36 pm:

This is the first paragraph of a review from Allmusic on the Four Tops:

The Four Tops are the most stable, consistent, and dependable of the successful R&B/pop vocal acts to emerge from Motown Records in the 1960s. Unlike the Temptations, they have had no personnel changes; unlike the Supremes and the Miracles, their lead singer never felt the need to step out on his own. At the same time, the Four Tops personified the musical hybrid Motown sought � they had the grittiness of gospel and R&B, but they were smooth enough to appeal to pop audiences.....Wm Ruhlmann

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:39 pm:

This is a portion of the first paragraph from Allmusic on the Tempts:

Thanks to their fine-tuned choreography � and even finer harmonies � the Temptations became the definitive male vocal group of the 1960s; one of Motown's most elastic acts, they tackled both lush pop and politically-charged funk with equal flair, and weathered a steady stream of changes in personnel and consumer tastes with rare dignity and grace.....Jason Ankeny

By Motown (24.247.244.50) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:35 am:

The Tops IMO were a more manly sounding group, with the "rough" deep vocals, and songs that were more directed from the male persepective of women/breaking up/being cheated on etc.

The tempts were more "lovey dovey" and sang with an unparalelled harmony, from the highest falsetto, to the deepest bass.

I feel that it has to do with the roots of each group, the Tempts were more or less a product of Motown, where as the Tops were an already established group before Gordy.


Now....if you had Smokey Robinson and the Miracles compared to these two...of course, hands down Smokey ;)

By Mark Speck (65.58.51.250) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:50 am:

It's a very hard to call to make, but for me the Tops get a slim edge on the strength of Levi's voice.

As for Bugs vs. Mickey, I won't touch that! I love all old cartoons too much.

Best,

Mark

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.23) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:33 am:

MelsMate:

I have met the late Mel Blanc many times at work. Here is an autographed picture that he gave me eighteen years ago:



Last Friday, I went to a company party held at Hollywood Billiards, on Hollywood Blvd. near the Hollywood Freeway. On that occasion I had a very nice conversation with June Foray, who is another giant in the field of cartoon voices. She was the voice of Rocky The Flying Squirrel, among many such charicters.

I used to see Daws Butler all the time at Hanna-Barbera. He was the voice of Yogi Bear and Quick Draw McGraw.

Jonathan Winters could never stop performing. It was very common to come out at lunch time and find him standing in the center of a circle of about 80 workers, on their lunch hour, doing his thing. He drove an old right hand drive Rolls Royce with big headlights.

Thanks for your kind words.

Mike McLean

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:22 am:

I remember when the Stones and Beatles first made it big, I was about 12 at the time and could'nt decide who I liked best back then. A couple of years later along comes the Temps and the Tops with the real deal. 37 years older and wiser, with Stones and Beatles ancient history. The Temps and Tops still shine bright near the top of my tree.

Who was best? I need to listen to tham a bit longer before I can answer that one.

Ask me again in another 37 years. (I hope)

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 03:36 am:

MIKE; WOW...COOL MEL BLANC PIC...VERY IMPRESSIVE! YOU'VE WORKED WITH LEGENDS...STUBASS

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 06:22 am:

Soulie Dave - I'm with you. When the penny dropped, is was soul all the way. Yes, I enjoy the Stones and The Beatles, but now, the sound of a young America, Philly and Northern are my favs.

Mike - great photo. Daws Butler, a secret hero of mine. Take a look at: http://www.comedyorama.com/daws/daws.htm
It may not be music, but talent none the less. Snaggelpuss, is my favourite - even today people still say 'exit, stage left' and have no idea where it came from. The dialogue from this character was so sophisticated. I think he was smarter than the average bear.

Temps/Tops - they are both high on my agenda. No favouritism at all. I had the pleasure of meeting Martha Reeves and I explained from my point of view it was everything about Motown as well as the artists, we love. This was almost 10 years ago and when I mentioned about The Funks, it opened a completely different conversation about people like Earl Van Dyke who had recently passed on. She commented that it was nice to meet people who knew their Motown! Then, a week later my home was burgled and the autograph she gave me was stolen.

I think we need a playground to discuss other topics like Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet!

By MelsMate (195.219.7.75) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:52 am:

Mr.M McClean,
a truly fantastic picture,Mel Blanc was second to none.Many thanks for the great info.
mels mate and mel(andthensome).
R.I.P. Mel Blanc.
tttttttthhhhhhhhhaaaaattttttttsssallllllfffffolks.

Now Back To The Music!

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 09:46 am:

Did anyone ever hear of a group called the Spinners? They remind me of the Funk Brothers.They seem to be invisible.
I saw them live at the Twenty-Grand more than once and they were great every time!!!
Lynn

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 09:54 am:

Lynn,
The Spinners are etched in music history!

Mike,
YOU ARE THE MAN!! I think we can all agree that Mel Blanc is the Jamerson of voices.

Melandthensome,
We saved your place right over there. Glad you're back.

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 10:55 am:

As a kid listening to mostly top 40 radio in the mid-70s, no group crossed over from R&B as effectively or consistently as the Phillip Wynne-led version of The Spinners working with Thom Bell. They kept one of my ears turned towards R&B during a time when I otherwise was not all that interested in it.

Regards,
Ken

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:06 am:

So well put Ken. Exactly what The Spinners were for me.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:47 am:

I always thought the Tops stood head and shoulders above everybody else when it came to singing but on stage the Temptations were probably the most impressive and influential of the original Motown acts.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:56 am:

The Spinners? My all-time favourite Motown "underdogs" - bar none. Their first album is my all-time favourite piece of vinyl. ('Nuff said?)

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.18) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:16 pm:

Carl Dixon,

Thanks for that great websight referance! I knew Daws Butler, but I had no idea how many characters he had created. My mind is simply blown away.

I can do a fair impression of Quick Draw McGraw saying: "I'll do the thinni'n around here Bobba Louie, and dooooon't you for-get-it!"

One day I was waiting for my food by the "Roach Coach" (food catering truck) in back of Hanna-Barbera. I found myself standing next to Daws. I told him that I had always been a big "Quick Draw McGraw" fan, but I never dreamed that one day I would be standing next to him waiting for a hamburger. I then did my impression of "Quickstraw." He got a big kick out if it.

During the period that I knew him, he was in poor health. That was from 1986 until he passed away. He was a very nice person.

Thanks to all for their kind remarks.

It's a funny thing about working around famous people. You get used to it after a while. One of the most bizarre stories was the time that I was working at Warner Hollywood Studios (the old Goldwyn lot at the corner of Santa Monica Blvd. and Formosa Street, in West Hollywood). I was called to bring a Sennheiser shotgun microphone to the ADR (automated dialogue replacment) stage and set it up.

I walked in and found this woman (whom I did not recognize,) dressed in a plain outfit like a housewife, studying a script. I got the impression that she was an acting student.

For some reason, I ran a bit of a running commentary down to her about what I was doing. I explained about the elastic microphone suspension, Etc. Finally, I detected a very subtile indication that she would prefer to concentrate on the script. This sent a slight chill through me, and I began to feel a strange feeling that I recognized her.

I made a fast exit, and on the way out I checked the papers on the console. My hair stood on end as I saw her name: MERLE STREEP!

If she had complained to my boss, I might very well have been fired.

Mike McLean

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:19 pm:

Mike

Your reference to QD McGraw brings to mind the guitar player that has certainly been my greatest influence - the one and only El Kabong!

SteveS

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:26 pm:

Mike - LOL, Merle Streep. That was great. You are lucky she didn't complain. Thanks for the laugh.
Sis

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:49 pm:

Once, steps away from Santa Monica Beach on Ocean Park Blvd., I bumped into Harry Shearer, Norma's kid! I had him do his Montgomery Burns (The Simpsons) for my son (and me). Next thing you know..... He Fired Me!

p.s. Mike, you 1 much funny man!

By Mark Speck (64.158.97.37) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:33 pm:

I almost met Noel Blanc, Mel's son. He was appearing to sign autographs at the Warner Bros. Store in downtown Cleveland.

I got cold feet when I found out that he was only signing one type of merchandise: WB cels that were selling for $200 at the very least!

I had the money but needed it for a record show so I passed. Had it been Mel and not Noel, I may have went for it.

God Bless Mel Blanc--what a talent! What other guy could do both Bugs Bunny and Barney Rubble (but not Elmer Fudd)?

Best,

Mark

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 09:14 am:

Yosemite Sam was my man ,he didn't any crap from anyone.
Why you lowdown varmint,I'll blow you to smithereens!!

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.60) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

I sure seem to have a talent for diverting a thread from it's subject.

My all time favorite cartoon is "The Case Of The Stuttering Pig" directed by Frank Tashlin (who directed the feature film "Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter" starring Tony Randall and Jayne Mansfield) and starring Porky and Petunia Pig. This cartoon came out about 1935. It originally was black and white, but a colorized version exists, which I prefer.

Mike McLean

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:39 pm:

Mike

Looking back at the posts, I think I probably can share at least some of the blame for totally derailing this thread. However, I'm absolutely livid that no one picked up the hint and suggested a lifetime achievement award for El Kabong.

SteveS

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.60) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:01 pm:

SteveS,

That ghastly off key twang of El Kabong is great.

I still see Joe Barbera regularly at work. He comes in ever day, even though he is over 90. Sadly, Bill Hanna has passed away. He was a fantastic fellow as well.

Another item I liked was "Space Ghost." That Zorack, who looked like a praying mantis, was one fine villan. I liked Moltor too. What a thrill it was when Jan, Jace and Blip would go on "Inviso Power!"

Mike McLean

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:21 pm:

Mike,

I never saw space ghost but I think that's the toon that Sonny Sharrock did the music for. If you're not familiar with him, he's what they used to call an avant-garde guitarist who may or may not know how to actually play the instrument (personally, I prefer El Kabong).

Must also mention Michigan J. Frog (usurped by WB network) as the story of the singing frog that won't sing when he supposed to describes my life far more often than it should.

SteveS

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:35 pm:

While favorite cartoons are on the table, I will declare my undying affection for Friz Freling's "Three Little Bops". Music by Shorty Rogers - Vocals/narration by Stan Freberg.

See, there's a music connection. I've almost got us back on topic.

Regards,
Ken

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.64) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 04:38 pm:

Ken,
talking of singing connections,
what about tha voluptuous,stunning looking
and great vocalist
roll on the drums please!
Miss Betty Boop.
what a chick(and then some).

By FRED L (67.38.30.7) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 06:53 pm:

A FEW YEARS AGO MAYBE 1983 THERE WAS MOTOWN "25"A TV SPECIAL.
ON THERE WAS THE TOPS & THE TEMPS WHICH STARTED
"TNT". TODAY TNT IS STILL SELLING OUT.


FLB

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 07:39 pm:

Fred, was this the event where James Jamerson had to buy a scalped ticket to get in and view from the cheap seats??

Talk about your forgotten Hero.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.26) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 04:21 am:

Fred L.,

That was the special where Berry said, on camera, that Motown was built with rats, roachs, love, and guts.

Fred, I am here to tell you that I was the fellow who put the roachs into that moment. I have posted a story on the forum about that subject. If you use the "search forum" function (right under "new messages," where you come to participate,) you will find my posting if you search for "roachs."

I "worship" the artistry of the Four Tops. I am sure that you are in a position to offer vast insights about this great group.

On the other hand, it may be that you have quietly done your job, which was a Hell of a lot of work, and know little about the magic of the Tops.

No matter what, I am simply on pins and needles to hear whatever you might like to say.

Welcome to the forum!!!!

Mike McLean

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.20) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 05:57 am:

Larry,
many thanks for your kind words
mate,hope you got my e.mail.
MEL.

By Clay (66.73.190.39) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 06:24 am:

The Temps or The Tops????????
It almost like saying what do you prefer (2)Fifty
dollar bills or (5)Twenty dollar bills
By my math they both represent $100.00.

I worked with both groups and Loved every moment of their magical talent. Motown's in house competition was always welcome and you would be surprised how many times the artists helped each other with their recordings. It's really simple: The Temps had a rep
of always being Stylish and Tempting. And The 4 Tops were simply "Tops" at every song they sang,because very few artist ever tried to cover a record that LEVI, sang first. Let's face it Motown
artist enjoyed working together because they understood the strength of their Revues. Peace

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 12:06 pm:

I have the box set "Fourever". However, I went through my old LP's and pulled out the original LP's for the Tops. I had to put my hands on the LP's and see the original covers, and listen to the original sound. Oh, what a feeling it was.
Sis

By Moooleey (64.156.211.65) on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 12:57 pm:

This is Mooleeey once again, and I chose this topic of discussion because it has always been a very difficult topic to actually consider. There are always preferences and sometimes when you consider two groups to be legends, it is very difficult to say who is actually better. While I will not actually say that the Tops are/were better than the Temps, but I will lend you all this story.

I was at a Four Tops/Temptations concert at the Pine Knob in Detroit, Michigan years ago. The Temptations at this point and time still were legendary because the group still had the likes of Melvin, Ali, Otis, Dennis, etc. but the group at this time was not considered as a down home Detroit group. The Tops on the other hand were introduced as Detroit's own Four Tops, so therefore after the infamous TNT battle, the Tops, at this show would be the closing act. Believe it or not, no groups prefer to be opening act for the other group and I guess this fueled the Temps to put on a show that was unbelievable.

We all know the Temptations to be more of the flashy or flamboyant act as compared to the Tops. We also know that if you were to choose who's better and you considered such things as dancing, outfits, secondary lives, along with talent; the Temptations would surpass the Four Tops hands down. But to get back to the story.

The show opened with the infamous battle as mentioned earlier. After that, the Temptations changed outfits and took to the stage to do in my opinion one of the best live performances they have ever done. The crowd was in a frenzy, during the whole set, I don't think anyone actually ever sat down. After the Temps did their last song or their encore, they left the stage while smoke emerged into the spots that they were all once standing. The crowd cheered for at least 10 minutes with very loud roaring after the Tempatations had finished. I can remember saying to my friends, "wow I feel sorry for the Four Tops." Here we just saw a group perform superbly with all of the dancing, various lead singers, outstanding outfits. And now we have to get prepared for a group with just one lead singer, minimal routine steps, and less flashiness.

I remeber vividly the Four Tops coming out to a crowd that was just on fire and dying for more fast paced 60's and 70's music to give them that happy feeling once again, but it did not happen that way. Instead Levi and the Four Tops came out in classy tuxedos with bow ties. Levi thundered a cover of Gloria Estafans It Cuts Both Ways and this just sizzled the crowd. It was unbelievable. Levi has one of the most awesomest voices in the whole world of music. I don't think there is another person who's ever song that can sing like Levi can and still have the ablility to ever speak again!

A little later in the set, the three Tops walked off the stage while Levi stood alone to bellow the classic hit, I Believe in You and Me. Remarkable, the once energetic crowd be bedazzled with the vocal abilities of Levi and the Tops. This once energized party loving crowd now became quiet classic music analysts waiting for every note that Levi had to deliver. Not before long, Levi announced to the crowd that he was now going to take them back to the sixities and seventies when he could really get down, and boy did he ever! By the time that the Tops finished singing all of their great hits we actually forgot about the treat and attributes that the legendary Temptations had just given us. We were all now left in amazement by the act that we had just witnessed.

Even though the Temptations had more routines, different lead singers, and actually more of a variety of attributes. Levi Stubbs and the Four Tops took what they had, put it together, and amazed the once Tempting crowd. I still stand by my first thought and mostly all of you guys when it comes to judging the two, but one would have to say that if you took everything into consideration; The Four Tops would have to come out with the edge! You've just been Moooleeeized!

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 01:08 pm:

MOOOLE: I SAW THE SAME SHOW, BUT IN VEGAS ABOUT TWELVE OR THIRTEEN YEARS AGO. GREAT SHOW WHICH HIGHLIGHTED BOTH GROUPS TALENTS. BOTTOM LINE...THE TOPS EPITOMIZED CLASS LIKE NO OTHER GROUP BEFORE OR SINCE, BUT THE TEMPTATIONS COULD GENERATE MORE EXCITEMENT THAN ANY GROUP I'VE EVER SEEN. IT WAS ALSO THE LAST TIME THAT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE MY REGARDS TO THE LEGENDARY MELVIN FRANKLIN...STU

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 01:58 pm:

One thing that always fascinated me about recording Levi was that his singing just kept on getting better every time he sang a song. I don't remember ever reaching a point in a session where his singing hit a plateau or began going downhill as is the case with most singers. I remember the vocal sessions as being more about fine-tuning the songwriting than perfecting the performance. What an amazing privilege it was for us to work with this man!

By rovereab (195.92.168.167) on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 02:27 pm:

They are both excellent groups but for me the Four Tops are just a little ahead. Levi's voice can be so moving, just listen to Just A Little Love from Fourever.

Regards.

By John Lester (217.45.75.96) on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 04:56 pm:

For some reason, the Tops were always the more popular in the UK whereas the reverse was the case in America.

I never really understood why......and still dont!

By Keith Rylatt (195.92.194.18) on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 01:42 pm:

Hi John. I was playing some Four Tops records recently and especially on `It's the same old song` I noticed just how important and mixed - high is the percussion. Not many backing tracks that support vocals have this high mix. Assuming that this is Jack Ashford and possibly Jack Brokenshaw, they are GREAT. On the subject of the Tops, on the back of the UK issue (US as well I assume)`Live` LP sleeve there is a shot of them on stage at the Top Deck. Is that one of the Everly Brothers on stage with them? Keith

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

Keith,

Yes - that's ,I think, Don Everly, on the cover.

I was listening to the Velvelettes' "A Bird In The Hand" last night - the tambourine playing on that is amazing - I think it's Jack Ashford - it's
absolutely perfect, slightly behind the beat it
almost sounds as if it's a bit slow but it's
not. You have to hear it to know what I'm on
about as it's hard to find the right words to
explain it.

On the subject of Jack Brokensha ( whatever happened to him ?) - I've recently found out that
he had a solo jazz album in the early sixties
and that he'd recorded extensively as a jazz
musician in the fifties. He was Australian.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 04:00 pm:

On the WKNR "Motown Monday" archive clip, (which features the Supremes and the Tops Live) Scotty Regan introduces the celebrities in the room - including Don Everly.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 05:56 pm:

KEITH; JACK BROKENSHAW...OF THE "AUSTRALIAN JAZZ QUARTET", FEATURING VOCALIST URSULA WALKER, PLAYED AND STILL PLAYS AROUND DETROIT. HE IS ONE OF THE FINEST VIBRAPHONE PLAYERS IN THE COUNTRY. HE PLAYED VIRTUALLY EVERY VIBE SESSION IN DETROIT, AND WAS A FIXTURE AS THE HOUSE BAND AT THE FAMED "LONDON CHOP HOUSE". MY BROTHER WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE IS CURRENTLY DOING, BUT HE IS HOSTING A PARTY AT HIS HOUSE AT THIS HOUR...I JUST LEFT, AND WOULD HAVE ASKED HIM, BUT WILL FIND OUT LATER FOR YOU...STU

By Aba21 (208.191.121.25) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:58 pm:

The Tops vs. the Temps. Man that's tough: it is very close but I give the edge to the Temptations for two reasons. The first is the fact they are the most visual of the two in their stage presentation. No contest there. The Tops have never been dancers. The second is the Temps have more people who can handle being out front so you get a variety of leads on songs making for a different kind of show. Prior to Mellow Mood though I would have given the Tops the nod for the differnt kind of music they sang. They could handle a standard with the best of them including the classic, I WANNA BE WITH YOU. Even today's Temps have shown their versitility with the release of For Lover's Only which in My opinion is a great cd. Nod goes to the Temps.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 06:26 pm:

ABA21; RIGHT ON; TEMPTS DUE TO THEIR VERSATILITY, ALTHOUGH LEVI STUBBS HAS NO PEERS. BY THE WAY... ARE YOU ANY RELATION TO THAT SWEDISH POP GROUP...KINDA LIKE SERGIO MENDEZ & BRAZIL 66???...STU

By John Lester (217.40.216.42) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 06:58 pm:

Bird in the Hand........wot a great tune and Cal gives here best on that one..

Yeah, yeah-yeah, YEAH!!!

By Chan (128.135.163.182) on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 02:29 pm:

Boy, that's a tough one. Look Levi Stubbs is UNTOUCHABLE! The clear and most beautiful vocals are unmatched by any other. The Temps on the other hand had the moves! But I think that there is no comparison between the Temps and the Tops. They are both EXCELLENT plus the styles of singing are/were different. David Ruffin was magnificent, as was Eddie Kendrick and without a doubt Levi Stubbs... Soooooo, it really can't be a contest as far as I'm concerned because they were both excellent vocals especially in the 60s.. I think that we got spoiled by the Tops and the Temps. (lol!)

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 12:35 am:

My threads of connection to Motown increase by the hour! I was just informed that the previous owners of the Building I currently live in were... The Temptations! Lol

By Aljaydu (68.18.97.53) on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 11:17 am:

I'd have to vote for the Tops. I don't think that there could ever be a tie or anything because
ONE attribute can swing the vote.
I agree with Moooleeey...I had seen the Temps and the Tops on several occassions. Once in San Diego at Humphries, once at The Universal Amphitheater in L.A. and once at the World's Fair in New Orleans.
The Temps had opened all three shows and put on an amazing show BUT, boy, oh, boy...the Four Tops did a job in closing those shows. I guess you can say it was like a football game...the other team is scoring their butts off in the first half, but the, uh,...let's huddle, fellas, and get ta throwin' in the second half.
The Tops came out THROWING!!!! They play-actioned, they ran the option...Levi...no compare.
The last time I had seen the Tops was in 1999 at the Grand Casion in Marksville, La. Duke, Obie and Levi...their voices...just like fine wine...Lawd...better with time. Levi...as someone stated before...after Levi blows...how can anyone speak after that ( I think Lionel Richie also said that about Levi...except that after three songs, he wouldn't be able to talk).

My edge goes to the Tops. No middle of the road here...

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 03:42 pm:

AS A LONG TIME FAN OF BOTH THE TEMPS AND TOPS YOU COME TO LOVE THE STYLE OF EACH.THE FOUR TOPS WITH THEIR SMOOTH HARMONIES ARE TRUE LEGENDS WITH THE GREAT LEVI STUBBS ONE OF THE GREAT VOICES OF SOUL MUSIC,AND WHAT CAN BE SAID ABOUT THE TEMPTIN TEMPTATIONS THE GREATEST GROUP EVER WITH FIVE LEAD SINGERS AND CHOROGRAPHY TO DIE FOR.WHO IS BETTER?JUST THINK OF IT AS A SOUL FEAST WITH AN ENDLESS MENU OF GREAT,GREAT MUSIC,SO SET BACK LISTEN UNTIL YOUR EARS ARE FULL AND ENJOY IT ALL.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.222) on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 12:57 am:

I thought that William Warfield:

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/biographys/bio_warfield_new.html

and Marion Anderson:

http://www.library.upenn.edu/special/gallery/anderson/

made a nice "Marvin and Tammy" alternative.

Mike McLean

By Davie Gordon (62.252.128.6) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 01:08 pm:

Here's a rare pic from Ebay of Jack Brokenshaw.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 02:53 pm:

Mike:
How about William Warfield & Leontyne Price? They not only recorded together but they were at one time husband & wife.
Warfield was a hometown hero of mine (Rochester, New York) who indeed was a fine bass/baritone. My mother made me listen to his recordings when I was studying classical singing in high school.
Best regards,
Kevin "KevGo" Goins

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.89) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 12:42 am:

KevGo,

Thanks more then I can say for your wonderful response.

I wish that I could respond with direct soul to your fine words, but, alas, I know of Warfield, Price, and Anderson, but I never drank a six pack swooning over any of them.

I am not much of an opera lover, but I have a few passions. One thing is for sure: I love the artistry of Jesse Norman!!!!! Oh baby!

Have you heard her recording of Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs (Philips 411 052-2 (CD, 1983) with the Gewandhaus-Orchester Leipzig, conducted by Kurt Masur?)

It sure was great to get a serious response.

Thanks again,

Mike McLean

By Counterpoint (68.63.4.162) on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 10:43 pm:

Levi doesn't move me at all. But, oh, those Tempts. For me there is no comparison. It's the Temptations all the way.

Having just seen the Tops and the Tempts perform, the Tops appeared fragmented. Theo is simply a Temptation amidst TOps.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.94) on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 12:30 am:

Could be.

I have been commenting on the basis of the 60's.

Mike McLean

By Janjan (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 06:23 pm:

I can still hear Levi singing Bernadette! Who would have ever thought a name like tht could be the major hook to a song. I drove my mother crazy with that song. She drove me crazy with Sugar Pie Honey Bunch. My dad was always ready for a party, he said go ahead baby play it again. I LLLLLoooovvvveeed the Tempts but I almost defected many times with those Tops. But David was so dog gone theatrical. I ws a bit theatrical to so the Tempts are my all time favs. This was a prime case of competition bringing out the best!

By Janjan (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 06:27 pm:

Motown:

Smokey and the Miracles could nt touch the Tempts with a ten foot pole. I guess we all love them all, but be for real!!!!!

By YoFlo (205.188.209.38) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 12:19 am:

Counterpoint said Levi doesn't move him, it's the Temps all the way. For me it's just the opposite. The Temps never moved me, it's Levi all the way. He's the greatest thing Motown ever produced.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:15 pm:

GREETINGS COUNTERPOINT AND YOFLO: HEY, WE ALL HAVE OUR FAVORITES...BUT HOW CAN A TRUE MOTOWN PATRIOT NOT BE MOVED IN ANY WAY BY EITHER THE "TOPS" OR "TEMPTS"???...IT'S LIKE BACK IN THE DAY...COULD YOU SAY THAT "COLUMBIAN GOLD" DID IT FOR YOU...BUT "MAUI WOWIE" DIDN'T MOVE YOU???JUST FIRE IT UP, AND EITHER WAY...YOU'LL BE MOVED???...SORRY FOR THE EXTREME EXAMPLE...BUT...NEVER MIND...I JUST FORGOT THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE!!!...STU

By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:51 pm:

HEY STUBASS,are you hanging out with "ASHLEY ROACHCLIP"?
"COUNT"

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:06 pm:

EVERY CHANCE I GET COUNT!!!...STU

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:18 pm:

I forgot what I was going to say but I know it was something profound. Ahh man did it go out again.

By mdr (166.90.236.173) on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 10:32 pm:

To quote from the lyrics that the Tops and the Temps did in thier album, in the early 80's (The battle song) that you can't top the temp's,nor can you temp the top's or something like that.

By paulie3shoes (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 11:13 am:

On da t'read on November da 12t it says Moooleeey.
Is dat yer name fer real?? Mooooleeey???
Ya know what dat means in da italian langwige?
Ya shouldnt say t'ings like dat (over here)
hey ralph ya know what I am sayin? CAPICE goomba??

By Eli (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 11:42 am:

Both groups exuded greatness in the classic sense that defies comparison. There is NO group alve today who can match that kind of greatness.
In my opinion most of todays acts are a joke and will become a postscript and psed off as yesterday's news.
The Tops and Tempts neded no pyrotechnics and booty girls, just plain old fashioned talent and individualism as did most if not all the acts of their time..