By mhc (172.171.248.214) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 09:47 pm:

Those of us who want to know now know about the DI/preamp box that the guitars and bass used in Studio A. But at Studio B what kind of signal path did the guitars and bass go through on their way to tape? Also, I'm guessing that Motown never got past 16 track while they were in Detroit. What brand were the multitrack machines? Thanks..

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 11:39 pm:

Marshall,
I'm sure Bob or Mike will give you the technicalities on the Guitar inputs.I can tell you the recorders were Ampex. I don't remember the model.

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 11:22 am:

Hello Marshall,

The 16 track machines were Ampex MM1000, based on the 2 inch VTR-1000 video transport. Artie Field had one and sent it back to Ampex and bought a 3M Model 56.

Regarding the direct input pre-amps; That whole discussion was in a previous thread and Mike and I discussed that. Actually, United had direct boxes before anyone. (1958) But Mike took the process to the next step and put a buffer amp (12AU7's as I remember) behind the input stage and a buss to mix the output to a common, high quality monitor. I built a box similar to that with OP-AMP lab components for Golden World and Theme Productions.

Today, finding good transformers with enough beef (iron) for good low frequency performance for bass direct boxes can be a problem. No one makes beefy input transformers. One solution is electronic input buffers powered from 48 volt phantom powering.

By mhc (172.175.22.149) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 02:24 pm:

Thanks Ed and Ralph. Basically, I was wondering whether they went with the DI approach just at Hitsville USA, or everywhere. Also, my hunch was that the tape machines were Ampex. Cheers....

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 02:37 pm:

It was all direct at Studio B Marshall.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 08:31 pm:

The "guitar amp" at studio B was solid state, covered with the same wood-grain indestructible plastic as the console, rolled around on casters and had mike level outputs on the back. It didn't have VU meters like the one at studio A had but I always thought it sounded just as good. I think I remember seeing it at the Museum.

I always assumed Mike built it but maybe it's the same one that Ed built.

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 10:23 pm:

Hello Bob,

The one I built for Golden World did not have VU meters and was solid state throughout using OP-AMP Labs components. It was balanced out with OP-AMP line buffers. It was driving a DYNACO 60 watt amp in the control room for monitoring on an Altec 604 system in the studio for the gits.

Maybe Mike put it in a woodgrain case. When I built it, it was in a rack mount in the studio in the corner. I know it worked quite well and Bob DeOrleans liked it. Perhaps Mike re-did the whole thing. All I know is that we were using it right up to the end at GW. In fact Dennis and Babbit remember using it when we cut COOL JERK at Golden World, which was probably the last "outside" session that studio ever saw.

I built one just like it for Theme Productions/BA Star only with 4 inputs.

I wish we could still get "GOOD IRON" like the UTC and Triad transformers.

Ed

By Jay Palmer (167.167.44.218) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:21 am:

Hi Ed.
First time poster here.
What a great site! British time I see

The old ADM consoles used the Triad and UTC transformers. Maybe some of those can be found. During my short stint at ADM, it was found that the other benefit was that the RF regjection was also better than the "hot" Jensen transformer of the day. Maybe if Bob Bloom is still lurking (he seems to surface every now and then) he might have some of those.

Say Ed, are you the same Royal Oak Ed Wolfrom that 100 years ago, as a kid got busted for making FREE TransAtlantic phone calls?

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:30 am:

Welcome to the forum Jay. Oh oh Ed. He's on to you. But you WERE just a kid then.

By Sue (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:47 am:

Ed!
Tell all about this juvenile misbehavior!

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 05:59 pm:

Hello Jay,

I'm your guy Jay.

Yep, I'm the guy who built the "BLUE BOX" back over thirty years ago. I think I was going to Wayne State and working at Golden World back then??? Do you remember that?

After that episode I ended up working for Ma-Bell for 6 months and made some engineering suggestions that would stop that problem (6th order bandpass at 2600 Hz. on trunks) but that would cost a whole 26 cents per trunk back then and was rejected.

Regarding "GOOD IRON"; Yes the old Triad and UTC were wonderful for RF rejection as opposed to the Dean Jenson stuff and with proper loading you could get good square wave response, (within the audio bandpass as well.) And they sounded so sweet. Today, transformerless inputs are great, if well designed and loaded properly, but without ferrite beads are useless in any RF environment.


Jay, fill me in on what you are doing now. If you want call me off line at 248.544-1793 and we can talk. Are you still in Michigan?

Ed

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 10:24 pm:

Hi Ed,

I am working here in the Post Production Engineering department (part of the Sound Department) at Universal Studios Hollywood CA.
We make the soundtracks for movies, TV, DVD, games etc... A lot (almost all!)of our engineers have migrated from music to records to film and video post.You may have seen my name bandied about my being a strong vocal proponent regarding universal audio file format interchange. ie: AES-31 etc...

I was recently back in Detroit two weeks ago as Wayne State had a Lifetime Arts Achievement award presentation for my father. (My siblings and I all surprised him and showed up at the event!)

I was always playing local gigs and going to electronic school before I moved to LA in 1979.
You could actually work (play music) 50 weeks a year back then!
At the time, the recording studios and the film studios were cookin big time. As times changed as they have everywhere, the record biz became less of a business to be in and the place to work was in fact the film studios. Now it is the film studios buying 2 million dollar mixing consoles not the record biz. We even shut down our scoring stage here to build another dubbing stage! Ouch!
Times have changed.

Ed, please e-mail me (click on my name) I will get back to you. There is a lot of the motor city in me!

Jay