By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 11:42 pm: |
When I was in the Sunliners we had a rule. No one was allowed to quit the band. We had, from time to time, some terrible arguments relating to the various funtions of the band.
At times members of the band would storm out of a meeting slamming doors etc. However at no time did anyone ever say " I quit ".
NOW.......This website has brought together some of the most interesting people I have had the pleasure of associating with. Everyone here has brought something in some form or another of value to the forum. So now the Count has disappeared and Davie and Mel are having some sort of issues that has caused Mel to take leave.
I hope I'm making a little sense here because I'm very tired tonight, but I want to get this settled once and for all. I mentioned we are like a family and we are. And a pretty damn good one at that. We look out for one another...we are helpful to one another...we joke with one another.And once in a while, as in all families, someone gets their feathers ruffled. BIG DEAL! Mel and Davie. I want you BOTH on the forum.Count...I know you're reading this. Get back on the forum. Lets all settle down and realize that from time to time things might get said that aren't quite to one or another's liking. Yes at times it might piss one of us off for whatever reasons but I mean this from the bottom of my heart...NOBODY QUITS THIS FORUM....It is what it is because of all of us together. Now PLEASE everyone come together and lets get it on. Our common denominator is universal here and that counts for everything. Do this for me.
By Mark Speck (65.57.20.28) on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 01:15 am: |
AMEN to all the above!
Best,
Mark
By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 01:17 am: |
GUYS; COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By M.McLeanTech (66.218.60.128) on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 02:22 am: |
Dear Ralph,
I have tears in my eyes as I read your words from your wonderful big heart.
I feel a flood of emotion sweep from my heart to my eyes, and down my back, as I contimplate the passion that you feel about the forum.
I wish I could put my arms around you right now and give you a big reassuring hug.
This forum is one heck of an experience.
In Alcholics Anonomous, the "OBSESSION" theme is a major point. I know that I woke up one day with a wonderful new understanding about the danger of obsession, after thinking about what I had learned at many meetings.
Today, I still act like a alcholic Daffy Duck, and love it, but I am able to almost get by, because I rose above "OBSESSION."
Please, Ralph, consider what my wonderful father Archie suggested, again and again, as I grew up: "TAKE AN INVINTORY OF YOURSELF!"
Think about these words: I am the holder of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
David has set a fine standard with beautiful china in the bathroom.
A public toilet, no matter how beautifully equipped, is full of dried pee on the floor.
This perspective is basic, if one is to remain in a healthy state of mind when tending to the beautiful shades of piss.
Remember: This is a PUBLIC forum.
Please don't drive yourself into a state that could shorten your life. Every night, the crew comes in to clean the place where I work. They are nice Latino people who love their children. I often give them VHS tapes to take home to their kids, when they ask (no current productions.)
These humble folk do their work with a cheerful dignity that could be a fine example for you to consider.
This forum will be what it will be, as Doris Day sang in that Alfred Hitchcock classic: "The Man Who Knew Too Much"
Kay Sara, Sara,
What ever will be will be
The future is plain to see,
Kay Sara, Sara.
Bernard Hermann conducted the orchestra, on screen, during the climax scene. He wrote the score for the film "The Day The Earth Stood Still."
I love you Ralph. Please mellow out just enough to get back in touch with being a normal human being.
Same goes for you, David. Help Ralph out. Let's all mellow out.
The forum will always be,
Whatever God wants it to be.
The future's not ours to see.
To participate we are free.
And thanks to God above,
our prevlidge is all this love.
Not ours to minipulate,
or become angry and hate.
I love you Ralph,
Mike McLean
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 10:07 am: |
Mike,
I'm fine. Really pal! Your generous love is accepted and appreciated. How could it not? We go back too far. But I'm fine. Sure, I love the forum. This past year has been one hell of a nostalgic ride. How many of us have reunited after too many years have had their way? Look how many people I would meet that have a genuine regard for all we did in those long past days. I had never heard the term " Northern Soul " and were it not for David and Lowell I more than likely never would have.
I understand all you are trying to say to me Mike and your concern does not go unappreciated. I think in the final analysis you would be judged as one big old soft dude with a heart as big as a tree.
By Vickie (152.163.188.68) on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 09:13 pm: |
You have my support Ralph..
bickering is just silly and it's just non-sense..
Let's pretend we are all the same and see what happens...
Oh - wait - we are all the same.
Vickie
By John Lester (213.123.155.248) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 02:54 am: |
Ralph.
You have my support..but then you ought to know that...
By Millie (68.40.198.72) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 04:39 pm: |
Ralph,
I'll always be here for you...if you need me, call me, no matter where you are, no matter how far, just call my .............blah, blah...sorry Ralphie I got carried away. You and I are like Siamese baby and doncha forget it!
By Not The Osmonds (12.141.160.25) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 11:02 pm: |
Millie.... Lolol
One other thing Ralph,
...just look over your shoulder honey, Ooooooo I'll be There.... I'll be there.......
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 11:33 pm: |
Millie and Not,
You two are Supreme and the Tops.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 11:09 am: |
Ralph:
I was away this past weekend and am now catching up. You are doing such a great job with keeping this forum together and whatever bickering has occurred will disappear as we try our best to understand one another. You know you have my support always.
Peace,
Kevin L. Goins
a/k/a KevGo
New York City
November 4, 2002
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 01:18 pm: |
Good grief. I was teaching a class for the last few days and obviously missed some odd goings on. Probably for the best. Thanks as always for keeping things together, Ralph.
Regards,
Ken
By Clay (66.73.187.79) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 01:22 am: |
Ralph,
I don't care what anyone says, you are and will always be a crucial pillar in this forum. How many times over the years have things hit the dumpster and pissed you off?????? But, because you're made of the
finest stock that is no longer available, you bounce
back over and over again. Take it from me a guy who has known you since we both were PUPS, You're one of the finest people I ever known and one of the few STANDUP guys in my life. I support all you stand for
and all you really have to do is be who you been for more than 35yrs, Ralph T my friend.
By John Lester (217.40.218.104) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 06:49 am: |
Ralph
Don't think you can argue with that!!
By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.77) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 08:24 am: |
Clay,
I assume that you stand up for my standing up loathing for conventional "multi-microphone" phony mixing technique, and have read my postings to that effect on the forum. Ralph seems to be a catch-all for all convictions among the devoted forum contributors. When you stand up for someone, one should consider what one is standing up for.
Ralph Terrana stands up for the forum. That is true.
But I believe that there is something much more important to consider.
Natural sound recording.
When was the last time that you acutually gave this subject any thought?
I can tell you that Ed Wolfrum has been thinking about this matter all his life.
On the wall of a Baskin-Robbins Ice-Cream store is a plaque that proclaims "There is always someone who will find a way to make a cheaper product, and his customers will be..." Something to the effect of being a victum of the old concept: You get what you pay for.
My comment is: I'll take pussy before I will go to the dogs! That includes natural microphone technique, using an intensity stereo microphone, such as the NEUMANN SM-69, for example.
I believe that the forum is a great thing, but I have had my heart ripped out for the last fourty years, regarding high quality recording and Motown.
It is my opinion that at least 80% of the folks, who post their opinions on this forum, have no clue about what they are actually talking about.
Just a bunch of fans, without a life, offering a hot air blow job.
I, on the other hand, have all the answers!
My way of natural recording is the only way.
All other methods are false.
All everyday recordings, except the ones that sound good to me, are trash!
I simply can't stand it the way everyone seems to object to my views.
I have 2300 CD's of mostly classical music. I also have a lot of LP's of great old stuff, including a lot of great classic pop LP's.
What are we arguing about here?
Oh! I remember: My issue is:
What is all this forum stuff all about, anyway:
Have any of you fools heard of Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms?
Lovingly,
Mike McLean
You "pop" fans speak as would a Greek person speaking in Greece.
I have news for you: You are speaking in this country, and this means that you can not take for granted the traditions of fine quality music, often called "classical."
You have a big opinion about American music. Have you ever listened to works by such as Copland, Hanson, Harris, or Sobotnic?
I thought not. I have, on occasion, and I can tell all of you that they are very delightful!!!
So what's the problem?
Let's mellow out and get real about all this silly stuff!
Love,
Mike McLean
Just a bunch of pop bullys. before 1954, when bill haily recorded rock around the clock, they would have been less then paper toweling.
And another thing, too!
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 10:10 am: |
Clay,
We really were pups together weren't we? Well that must make us a couple of seasoned old dogs now old pal.Speaking of bouncing back...seems to me you've been down that road a time or two. Clay, I'm proud to be your friend, all 35 plus years of it.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 10:31 am: |
Mike,
I understand the convictions of your taste. However what I think you seem to miss from time to time here is it's all a matter of choices. Bach isn't for everyone and neither was Bill Haley, but it's all music pal.Sure, you are a student of the classically correct way to record. But the real world doesn't work like that anymore. Blame it on industry or the way the things evolved to satisfy the desires of the consumer but that's the way life works at times.
Do you really think that the fans of Bach, Beethoven or Brahams are more sophsticated musically then the members of this forum? Let me tell you a little story here. As a piano tuner I have tuned for some of the greatest contemporary classical pianists of the day. One of the things I noticed while attending these performances was that it was very vogue for the public to purchase seating on the left side of the auditorium. Why? So they could see the pianist's hands while he played. Like they really had a clue what was going on anyway. Silly me. I thought we were there to listen to the music.
Anyway Mike, it's really all about tastes and I really do think it is unfair of you to try and enforce your standards on those who may feel differently than you. You may ot always be right and you may not always be wrong, but you are most definitely ALWAYS Mike McLean.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 10:45 am: |
Mike,
Bach, Beethoven,Bartok, blah blah blah
You're forgetting that they were contemporary
composers in their time. Their music was good
enough to stand the test of time and gained
"classic" status.
I'm sure the best Motown music will stand the same test - the composers you name have head starts of centuries.
And don't dismiss forum members as being uniformly
ignorant of your favourite music - I do have
some classical music in my collection I just
happen to find that Motown music speaks to
me with more immediacy.
I'm really sorry that you don't derive as much
satisfaction from your work at Motown as we do.
I certainly appreciate the skill you brought to
enhancing many records which are an integral
part of my life.
Best wishes,
By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 01:56 pm: |
Mike,crusing Michigans very beautiful upper peninsulas roads just after a heavy snow with Vivaldi cranking on the Volvos cd.system and a slight buzz,is where it's at.
On the other hand,on a hot summer day crusing that same road, some old Spanials do-wop,or Jimmy Reed (with his country time)I.E. on the beat off the beat,is cool to. Along with a cold beer of course!!
Your mood has a lot to do with the type of music you like at any given time.
Of course this is just my opinion only.
SLAITE VA
By Gary Rosen (12.234.95.0) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 02:19 am: |
I'm wondering, after reading some of the objections to Mike's last post - is it possible that he had his tongue just ever so slightly in his cheek?
- Gary Rosen
By Clay (66.73.216.34) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 06:56 am: |
Mike Mclean,
I dare say that when it comes to any technical stuff you are by far a well repected expert and I for one have always had the highest respect for you and your incredible ability to do things technically that most folk only dream about. My only comment is that people in this business have a habit of using what works and disregard the SPECS and correct ways to use certain pieces of equipment as well as the proper placement and types of certain studio gear as someone like yourself may hookup. Mike, you know more about specs and equipment limitations than most of us on this forum and if you really think about it you can't expect us to take the same approach as someone with your knowledge of uses. Oh!! and by the way my words to Ralph were regarding our unfriendly visitor who worshipped GARY LEWIS!!!!! not you LOL I still love you man and remember we've all tried things that did'nt work. Peace
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 10:59 am: |
I took the main point of Mike's post above to be "mellow out and don't get so worked up over silly pop music". While that may indeed be sage advice, it is unfortunate that recent posters were getting worked up over things that had nothing to do with music of any kind.
On the other hand, while we are slightly off topic, if Mr. McLean wants to recommend some excellent recordings of works by American composers (or anyone else for that matter), I have pen & paper in hand and a record shop nearby.
Regards,
Ken
By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:45 am: |
Mr. Mclean is tongue in cheek folks.
He made me a homebrew compilation of 45's
"The Motown That Time Forgot", a collection of his personal favorites. I witnessed first hand how this music moves him. It does so deeply.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:53 am: |
Yeah, and I also remeber Mike telling me how he stayed up all night long listening to the Rolling Stones' Let It Bleed when it first came out, because the sound knocked him out.
Mikie, you're a piece of work but we love you here.
By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 12:03 pm: |
Ralph,
I think Mike would be the first to admit he's a piece of work. He's an ole Salty Dog, but, he's not lost his inner child. He likes to stir it up, but, deep down, big heart.
Anyone heard of The Vandors???
Mike's only session he did soup-to-nuts because noone was around at Hitsville when this group showed up, plus, I think he wanted to do them a favor. Not a bad track. A never released track.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
Gary,
I think you're right - the phrase "hook, line
and sinker" keeps going through my head. : - )
By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 02:08 pm: |
Mike, as always loves fine recording!!! That is a given. However, his real love is for straight ahead, non-processed, minimal microphone recording. This will ALWAYS give the purest audio. This is my love to. And these recordings are best examplified in classical music or straight ahead jazz.
Considering the commercial reality of popular music, we both realize that this has not and will never be. However, considering the outright bastardization of what the industry has done, I think Mike and all of us who love GOOD audio have some ligit beefs!!!
Tongue in cheek (as we can assume it was), or not I believe Mike gets the message across. Today's audio production values SUCK. Just listen to the amount of useless processing is used on CD's (with a usable dynamic range of over 90 dB)just to make them "LOUD." Why? This was at times necessary in the days of lousy vinal 45s because of the surface noise, but there is NO excuse for this today. The amount of processing "DISTORTION" today is inexcusable and the final pop products sound worse than any of the products done when the recording technology was crude by today's standards.
Mike has a valid complaint no matter how it is taken.
By Russ Terrana (198.178.8.81) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 03:35 pm: |
Mike and Ed are my boys! They have a point to make, and the greater music today really sucks. I've seen engineers being controled by the equiptment unstead of the engineer doing the controling. I've seen engineers reach for the EQ when only 3 inches of tape has rolled ... how sad.Music is feel and emotion and it's up to a creative engineer to capture that feel, not effect the crap out of it. One thing I must say, I hear recordings from 30 years ago that put to shame alot of the current music out there today. Don't even get me started on Rap! I believe that alot of todays music is controled by corporations out to make a buck and don't give a f... about the music. Ed, Mike ... your my heros!
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 03:40 pm: |
Ed, you are so right. It is ridiculous that they will introduce new audio formats like SACD or 24-bit PCM bragging about their 110dB or so dynamic range capabilities and then they will increase the volume and digitally limit the peaks on many releases to the point where the dynamics are compressed to an order of magnitude less than that.
It's bad enough with new music, but when they do it in the mastering stage of a reissue, it's that much worse. Recording hot to an analog tape would give you some limiting and distortion as well, but it could also help your signal to noise by moving the average level further away from the ambient tape hiss. Doing it in the mastering stage, particularly in the digital realm where there would not normally be much added hiss, actually brings the hiss level from the master closer to the average signal level. Ugh! You don't even get the ancillary benefit that used to go along with the compromise.
Regards,
Ken
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 03:51 pm: |
Ken, Ed & Ralph:
As a former audio student, I do agree with all of you regarding recorded sound (or rather how sound should really be recorded). But what can be done? In pop music history, we had producers such as Phil Spector break every rule in the audio handbook as he created the Wall of Sound. The Motown records were always cut a few decibels higher than the average 45 thus making their singles louder than God (and let's not forget the producers who loved to crank up the volume while recording and mixing). How about the Carpenters and their love for overdubbing vocals until the cows came home. I guess my point is while the music back then may have been better, it was created by "breaking the rules" of what should and shouldn't be done in engineering/recording - thus making it alright for the mediocre to exist once the great stuff has gone (God help us) full circle. I don't know - I'm just voicing my opinion on matters.
Peace,
KevGo
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 04:16 pm: |
I know what you mean, Kevin, and there are certainly aesthetic considerations to be made, but most of my favorite rulebreakers were trying to create new sounds and/or transcend technical limitations whereas most of my least favorites are trying to make everything sound the same for some reason.
A hot track optimized for 45 RPM records and AM radio is one thing. A track with only 6dB of dynamic range is another thing entirely. Digital audio tools have enabled bad engineers to take the loudness race close to its logical conclusion of no dynamics at all, but based on available evidence, it's time to turn back and head the other way.
Regards,
Ken
By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 05:32 pm: |
Kev,
Ken and I can speak with some authority about creativity v. crap. I have now over 40 years working in professional audio (if you count my broadcasting years.)
There is nothing wrong with the creative use audio tools to enhance a performance, as long as the processing is just that. However, the familiar practice of multi-track, punched in, processed, edited and "created" performances with the resulting "note perfection" destroys feel, soul, and in my humble opinion, is an destructive, indefensible and fraudulent use of the recording technology because this "musical creation" created by the skills of the recording producer and (now- sometimes recording engineer), is presented and marketed as the performance of the artist. Is this music?
I doubt whether many of todays listeners, or perhaps even producers or engineers have ever heard the real beauty of a fine orchestra, big band, or even a small group in a fine room, un-reinforced, pouring out real music. Candidly, what flows from the soul of fine musicians, (Funk Brothers especially), be it R&B, Rock, Jazz or Classical is only polluted by what we do in a "recording studio." I used to love to just sit in the center of it at Golden World or United and soak it in the studio...then go into the control room and try to re-create the feel of it. To try to re-create the "sound" back then, was a loosing battle. Today, with digital technology and the Aachen Head, this can ALMOST be done. But, because of the manipulated sound the recording industry has foisted on the market, would this be accepted or appreciated...I doubt it.
The problem is that in today's contrived market, this is realistic transfer of artistic expression is seldom experienced. My favorite analogy is; "Its like trying to explain hand rubbed finishes to someone who has only seen chrome and glass."
Ken, hit the nail on the head with the SQUASHED dynamic range game. Less than two weeks ago I worked on a Hip-Hop project from a local producer at a local studio, that actually sounded pretty good. I pre-mastered it and left almost 12 to 15 dB of dynamic range and -.35 db of headroom before clipping. The people as the studio who mixed it (they will remain unknown to protect the guilty) said that it was not "LOUD" enough to compete in the market!!! They sent me a clone of a charted CD they thought was "GOOD." This piece of crap had less than 3 dB of dynamic range and was in clipping most of the time. Ken was being charitable in calling 6 dB of dynamic range bad. Sadily Ken, its less than that for Hip Hop product.
Oh, how sad the state of the music industry. And they have the nerve to blame it on file sharing. Its the lack of music and sound, stupid!!!
I sound like Mike now. You know he might be right on!!!
By John Lester (217.40.229.181) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 02:30 am: |
What info do we have on the Vandors then?
I have the following:
It Hurts Me So
You Said You Would Be My Baby
Hank Cosby might have been involved on the first recording................from Jan 1962
Another song seems to have been scheduled - Good Things Come
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 08:55 am: |
For the record, Ed speaks with some "real" authority while I speak with a hobbyists enthusiasm. I am an automotive engineer with a background in signal processing and two functional ears.
Regards,
Ken
By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:30 am: |
Oh, and for those of you of a technical bent, here's a link to an excellent article by Bob Katz on the Audio Engineering Society web site with some practical proposals for addressing the "dynamics crunch":
http://aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=65
We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions.
Regards,
Ken
By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.194) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 05:37 am: |
Ken is a typical memeber of the SouthEastern Michigan Woofer and Tweeter Marching Society.
I have been trying to get back to him (last time, he was washing his infant,) but I have been too busy with silly stuff. After I get through trying to respond to the forum, I have nothing left for this fine, decent Father of a family.
Sincerely yours,
Mike McLean
By Livonia Ken (66.2.148.53) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 07:08 am: |
Mike,
The stuff you contribute to the forum is more than enough to keep me thinking, wondering, scratching my head, and fumbling to develop a response, so thanks for your contributions here.
Regards,
Ken
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 11:08 am: |
Ken & Ed:
Thank you so much for your feedback. After sitting through the SITSOM show at the Apollo Theatre last night and witnessing the Funk Brothers play wonderfully while certain singers who shall remanin nameless sounded like they were being devoured by the lions because they just couldn't hold their own with the Funks (see my comments in the SITSOM The Movie 2 thread for my little "review"), I understand your views. Why couldn't these singers cut the mustard is because of, sadly, their reliance on studio technology to make them sound half-way decent and not being trained on how to sing PERIOD so that they could sound great no matter the setting or situation.
Peace,
KevGo
By Paulie 3 shoes (152.163.188.68) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 12:41 pm: |
Hey youse guise!!!!
Seems like youse gotta little problem dere.
All yuse gota do is lemme know and I will take care of it fer ya.
Da ting is dat in dese kinda tings ya gotta rub out da problem, capice an'not for nuttin make em an offer dey cant refuse an den bada bing bada boom jus likme dat dere wont be any more problems! Do I make myself clear?!?!?
By da way howze yer wife an' kids??
P3S
By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.203) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 01:46 pm: |
Dear P3S,
Now there is an approach that I had not considered!
Perhaps if we get the mob involved in the enforcement of proper standards of high fidelity recording, we can get some laws passed that will outlaw bad taste!
How about a Federal law prohibiting more microphones during recording then the number of speakers in the intended playback system? If this was the legal environment, intensity (coincident pair) stereo would be the only way to go!
With tongue in cheek,
Mike McLean
By Ed Wolfrum (165.247.229.82) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 02:41 pm: |
P3S....
Great Idea Mike. We need a level of "appreciation" for real recording and real musicians here that I think you can provide!!! We need your help to "impress" this on the major labels.
Ed
By Lowell (165.247.229.56) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 04:41 pm: |
Hi Gang,
Sorry I don't get by here much but I do lurk now and then on this wonderful and spectacular forum. I have my hands full with the Discuss Detroit forum and if you think you have problems here, well let me tell you....
I am *so* pleased that Ralph has taken over as moderator because he is so pleasant and upbeat, and capable of taking the grief that comes with it without burning out, not to mention the stature he adds to the scene. Kudos to you Ralph for your great guidance, patience, and imput that has made this forum so outstanding. I send a big virtual hug to you! Make that two hugs.
Folks getting ticked off at someone else and leaving seems to be a weekly event on Discuss Detroit and it is always distressing to see someone leave, well almost always ;), especially if they are a long time and constructive poster.
All I can do is sigh and say, "This is an open forum and I try to keep it civil as possible. All are welcome to enter, welcome to leave and welcome to come back." We might not 'kill the fatted calf' when you return, like the father of the prodigal son did, but we will give you all virtual hugs and welcome you back. [And a lot do come back. The rest are lurking and that's okay too.]
One of the goals I have had with that forum and website is to put real people together and that has resulted in many gatherings and participation in positive events to better Detroit. To allow off topic discussion, and squabbling, I created a forum community section just for those non Discuss Detroit topics. It seems to be working well. I don't see a need for that here as there is such a core of people who know each other from the past and you are more spead out, geographically, than on the DD forum.
Anyway that's my $.02. I do hope that those who left will consider coming back. You are all so family here.
By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 04:42 pm: |
Mike's already changed my whole thinking of sound. If'n I ever turn my 16 track on again, the stuff is gonna sound happenin with NO processing. To hear stuff loud, clean and that it be pleasurable and not boring... that's (a) huge litmus test.
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 07:58 pm: |
Lowell,
Thanks for the words of support. I have taken this place to my heart, no doubt about it.
By SteveS (68.41.251.33) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 08:51 pm: |
It's hard to believe that we get these more or less regular outbursts of bickering here.
Let's put things in context - this is an open forum in which mere mortals with a shared love a music have the opportunity to converse with the likes of (the list is incomplete and in no particular order) Jack Ashford, Bob Babbitt, Dennis Coffey, Bobby Eli, Joe Messina, Bruce Miller and so many others who took part in it all (e.g. the Terrana Bros., Messrs McClean and Wolfrum).
On these occasions when one of the peanut gallery goes semi-postal, Ralph has been gracious enough to try to coax them back into the fold. That says quite a bit about Ralph, who is clearly a gentleman and diplomat of the highest order. However, it also says quite a bit about individuals who clearly "don't know what they got till it's gone".
This is a great place and I consider myself very fortunate to be able to "tune in" here, let alone post and converse with the not just the luminaries, but so many of the fascinating "regular" folks on this forum.
Thanks, Ralph!
SteveS
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 09:04 pm: |
You're most welcome Steve. With all the people that come to the forum, I suppose an occasional bump can't be helped. The good news is we seem to weather these ocassional bumps and the forum keeps growing ever stronger.
By larry (12.141.160.25) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 10:44 pm: |
Lowell,
Being such the mouthy (always thought of as a Detroit thing) newbie who likes to pay his own way through life, where would I make a donation in the local currency towards the health of this fabulous Forum?
By Music FAn (152.163.188.68) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 04:00 am: |
Being so busy I just read my music stuff. I decided to peek at the other forum Lowell speaks of... I think we have a good thing here..99.9% of us are mature and set a good example to new comers..that's why this place grows.."people come, like it, and stay awhile"
I am not going anywhere..I have my senstive days and read all kinds of things all over the web...
To comment on things, well it just stirs the pot..
Detachment is strength at times..
Thank you again Lowell & David for making a place to talk about music and also to "GROW" as a human being and learn capacities such as forgivness
strength, tack and respect..And Ralph - you are the "Keeper Of The Castle"
This place is "Supreme" and "The Tops" and anyone who has the "Temptations" to disrespect it should
meander elswhere , cause - "War, What is it good For? Absolutley Nothing"
SAY it AGain!
By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 05:24 am: |
To quote a favourite song by a favourite group:
"...Why should we argue this way
Why should we fuss and fight?
Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music,
together we can make it right."
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 09:44 am: |
Ritchie and Music Fan,
It's your positive messages that are the true essence of this forum. Thanks for reminding us.
By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 05:27 pm: |
Since I've discovered this forum I've made contact with musicians I haven't talked to in thirty to forty years. If you younger musicians think this is a long time your damn right. But watchout time has a way of wizzing by and you guys will be the ones talking about "used to be". I hope to god that you younger musicians have some people like Lowell,David and Ralph to start something similar.
I played drums and was never the star, but was one of the people that backed up the stars and always did my best to make who ever was featured sound as good as my talent would allow me to do.
When I start dropping names on this forum it's not to boost my ego,as I've had my day in the sun. It's mainly to share info on the real monsters of the Detroit music scene such as Babbitt,Dennis Coffey,and all the rest of the bad dudes. In the 6os we were like you guys are now,just trying to practise our asses off to be better than the competition and trying to be the best band in Detroit or where ever.
I don't know how I got on this tangent as what I really wanted to say was thanks to Ralph,Lowell,and"one of the coolest guys in Scotland" David for making this forum the way it is.
Slainte Va, Lynn
By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 07:51 pm: |
Lynn,
You are definitely one of the guys that were " there " as far as the Detroit music scene is concerned. Your credentials are in order pal. You younger guys...listen well to what he is saying. Wise words from someone who knows what he is talking about.
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 07:33 am: |
Thanks for your support Lynn.
Larry, Lowell may not be around for awhile.
In answer to your question please press the "Support Us" button which sits under out main banner at the top right of your screen.
Thank you.
David