By JSmith (212.39.231.20) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:04 am:

I have amended my bio piece on Spyder (originally posted here a while ago). It will be posted on the Prestatyn Weekender web site in the near future (www.soul-weekenders.co.uk). My bio pieces on Gwen Owens, Don Gardner (+ Ann Nesby) should all be posted on the site. I am then pencilled in to interview all the artists on one of my W/E radio shows at the event. Any questions you may have, let me know & I will do my best to work them into the interviews.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.4) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:26 am:

Heres a few questions,Spyder Turner,Im alive with a lovin feelin,I Cant make it anymore,any recollections regards these 2 great tracks.The I cant make it anymore for me is one of the most underplayed and most underated Rare/Northern soul tracks of all time,why wasnt it hammered by the djs when it was first played.Does Gwen Owens recall her Wanted and Needed Classic(although I think acooolcat answered that one)and Don Gardner what does he recall of his classic sides on the Sedgrick Label.All pretty obvious questions I know,but lets go for it as you have 3 of the most talented artists that have hit our scene with some truly magnificent dancers of there day.MEL.

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 12:22 pm:

Mel,
I saved some of the old thread on Spyder as my Uncle Sheldon Rott co-wrote the song "I'm Alive with a Lovin Feelin'. I can repost it if you want.

I'll attempt to get info from him on this record, the sessions etc., however it will be some time.
1) he's not a big web user and 2) he's going in for Major surgery (kidney) tomorrow morning.

I'll be in Detroit late November. G-d willing he'll be well and I'll get some facts. He's got a good memory for that stuff.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.33) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 12:33 pm:

Hey Larry,thanks,I for one would love you to re-post it.I most certainly remember you telling us about your Uncle regards that classic song,Im alive with a loving feeling.It would be so great if he could maybe tell us something about it,but it goes without saying Larry,Please send mine and Im sure everyone elses best wishes to him on a speedy and healthy recovery after his surgery.I Shall be thinking of him now,as I give that superb record another spin.MEL.

By Larry (12.141.160.25) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 12:53 pm:

Mel,
I've just sent your best wishes to Sheldon's daughter. I believe she'll have time to pass your kind words. Thank you. Below is what I saved from the old thread, keep in mind it mostly pertains to Sheldon. My intention was to boost his spirits. Here goes:


-----Original Message-----
From: Shelrott@aol.com
To: Larry Rott
Sent: 9/15/2002 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Motown

Larry,

I didn't mention it, but I recorded several sessions at Terra Sherma on Livernois at Fenkell. At one midnight session, I over dubbed
all 3 three trumpet parts on a reording. I also remember Spider Turner recording his album with one of my songs on it called "I'm alive with a
lovin' feeling" which was what developed from the original song that Ricky Dee and I wrote at Motown studios called " Standing in the Shadows
of Love" which was released under Holland Dozier and Holland.

I will call you soon.

Uncle Sheldon
=============
A new 'conversation' has started on the boards at soulfuldetroit.com
about Spyder Turner. Can you shed any more info about him? I'd like to post it to the group. Here's what one guy has said about Spyder:

[Then, in June 1966, Spyder met Arnold Geller who became his producer and landed him a deal with MGM Records. They went into Terra Shirma Studios and, with Mike Theodore & Dennis Coffey handling arrangements, cut some tracks. �Stand By Me�, Spyder�s unique interpretation on Ben E King�s 1961 hit was soon released on a single and quickly also became a big hit. By December 1966 it was in the national charts where it went to # 3 R&B, # 12 pop. The record stayed on the national R&B chart for a period of 15 weeks in all.]

Was *this* your session Uncle Shel?
===========
========
By Larry (209.245.72.246 - 209.245.72.246) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:18 am:

From my Uncle Sheldon Rott who still leads a band in Detroit:

"...I didn't mention it, but I recorded several sessions at Terra Sherma on Livernois at Fenkell. At one midnight session, I over dubbed all 3 three trumpet parts on a recording.

I also remember Spider Turner recording his album with one of my songs on it called "I'm alive with a lovin' feeling" which was what developed from the original song that Ricky Dee and I wrote at Motown studios called " Standing in the Shadows of Love" which was released under Holland, Dozier and Holland."
========
By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.47 - 195.219.7.47) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:18 pm:

Hey Larry, what an absolute cracker of a side that is, Im Alive With A Loving Feeling. One that has been a personal favourite of mine now for a good number of years.MEL.
========
By Larry (216.23.183.2 - 216.23.183.2) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:23 pm:

Mel,
I'll pass your msg on to him. He'll love to hear it. I want to get him on these boards as I know he has stories to tell.

Larry
========
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:46 pm:

I'd also like to say how much I like this song.
Credited songwriters are Drapkin and Rott.
Thanks also to Producer Butch (Clay), Theodore-Coffey and Studio Owner Ralph!
We are in hallowed company.
========
By STUBASS (206.135.204.2 - 206.135.204.2) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:28 pm:

ACTUALLY, BEFORE SIGNING WITH ARNIE GELLER, SPYDER
FRONTED THE GROUP SPYDER TURNER AND THE FABULUS COUNTS WITH DEMO CATES ON SAX, MOSE DAVIS ON ORGAN, ANDREW GIBSON ON DRUMS, AND LEROY (forgot his last name) on guitar. ARNIE WANTED TO SIGN THE WHOLE GROUP, BUT THE OTHER MEMBERS REMAINED LOYAL TO THEIR THEN MANAGER FREDDIE MCCLURE. THEYHAD A SINGLE A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER TITLED "JAN JAN". GREAT JAZZ/R&B GROUP. THEY HAVE LONG SINCE SPLIT UP AND SCATTERED TO VARIOUS PARTS OF NORTH AMERICA.
========
By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.107 - 195.219.7.107) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:25 pm:

What I Consider to be one of the most under rated and under played absolute superb northern/rare soul classics ever.To me this sound does it all,I first heard this around 1972,and it still sounds as fresh today as it did all those years ago.How it never reached greater heights on the scene,baffles me.Only the connosseurs appreciate this gem,as I had an old wheel mate of mine pulling it down,so I Threw him outside.Spyder Turner,I Cant Make It Anymore,M.G.M.Records.Just goes to say,Its Whats In The Groove That Counts.Has always stayed a good 20 odd pounds or there a bouts.MEL.
========
By David Meikle (62.252.128.6 - 62.252.128.6) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:40 pm:

I too, love "I can't make it anymore".
My notes may be misinterpreted however.
I am actually describing "I'm alive with a loving feeling". apologies.
========
By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:53 pm:

Stubass,
The guy you're trying to remember in the Fabulous Counts is Leroy Emmanuel. I'd heard that the
Counts were the band backing Spyder on "Stand By Me" - maybe they recorded the tracks then decided not to sign with Arnie Geller.

I really rated the Counts' later albums ( cut for the Atlanta based Aware label) - I'd like
to hear their "JAn JAn" album which is long overdue for a CD reissue

If you can get uncle to come on the forum that would be great. I'll dig out my notes on Richard
Drapkin's stuff - do you know if he's still around?
========
By Ian W (213.1.164.246 - 213.1.164.246) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 05:10 pm:
"I Can't Make It Anymore" - if there were fewer copies around, this track would have been one of the biggest things on the Northern scene! It remains a prized possession in my collection, especially when coupled with "Don't Hold Back".
=========
-----Original Message-----
From: Shelrott@aol.com
To: Larry Rott
Sent: 9/19/2002 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Some gal name Mel in England digs your song!!!

Larry,
Ricky (Dee) Drapkin is still around, I think he is a salesman and singing for fun. Arnie Geller moved to New York years ago and became manager to Cindy Lauper for several years.
Your aunt Carol (Vickie Carroll) recorded for Harry Balk before she signed with Decca Records to replace Patsy Cline.

Dennis Coffey arranged "I'm alive with a lovin' feelin'" for Spider Turner, but I got the impression he didn't care for the song that much.
Arnie Geller still owns publishing rights to the song. Ricky still collects royalties for his song on the second Beatles Album "She's Got the Devil in Her Heart".

Do you remember the Beatles promo stickers? Well I found several in Bubby and Zadies basement when we sold the house in Oak Park. I was thinking of selling some on the internet. What do you think?

Oh, by the way, your aunt Carol worked with the
Sunliners (Rare Earth) when they were all much younger at many events (State Fairs, Shows etc.)

I guess I do have a million stories about the record business in Detroit.

Almost forgot, when we were moving, Carol found some original pictures of the Beatles I took when I was working for Capitol Records.
Love,

Uncle Sheldon
===========
-----Original Message-----
From: Shelrott@aol.com
To: Larry Rott
Sent: 9/19/2002 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Motown

Larry, Amazing, that was the session. The album was cut for MGM Records under contract with Arnie Geller. The album was recorded in a short period of time, as Spider Turners sing was getting National play and MGM wanted the album to be released as soon as possible.

Spider's single, "Stand By Me" was rejected by most of the major record companies because the beat was turning somewhere in the cut. Arnie Geller took a chance on the single and it was a big hit.

Spider was drafted by the US Army at the time of his climb to success and somehow got hurt when he fell off the stage during a concert in Toledo, Ohio (so the story goes) This internet stuff sure can be fun.

Love,
Uncle Sheldon

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.67) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:25 pm:

Truly amazing stuff,just one small point that I think is very,very,important(especially to me,MEL)It states above somewhere that SOME GAL CALLED MEL,well I can tell you that mel is most certainly NO GAL.I Dont want people thinking that Mel(myself)is,how shall I put it,some sort of shirt lifter,ahem.Mel is a 100% BONA-FIDE hetro-sexual mean assed soul brother(and then some),otherwise Larry great piece.(now wheres my lip-stick,oops).mel.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:39 pm:

JUST SOME ARNIE GELLER INFO; ARNIE IS REPORTEDLY LIVING IN ATLANTA. MY MOM...ARNIE'S MOM'S COUSIN, CALLED ME ONE NIGHT A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK AND TOLD ME TO WATCH AN INTERVIEW ON MSNBC. IT WAS ARNIE, BEING INTERVIEWED BY KATIE COURIC OF THE TODAY SHOW RELATING TO HIS LATEST ENTERPRISE. ARNIE SOMEHOW GOT SOME RIGHTS TO THE EXCAVATION PROJECT OF THE TITANIC. HE WAS, AND I BELIEVE STILL IS INVOLVED. APPARENTLY, MANY BUSINESS DISPUTES WITH INVESTORS IN THE PROJECT CROPPED UP, AND ARNIE IS, I BELIEVE, CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN SEVERAL LAWSUITS OVER THE TITANIC PROJECT...AT LEAST THATS WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:42 pm:

Mel. Lololol...
When I first joined the board I ASS-umed you was a gal! To this moment Sheldon still thinks a UK gal digs his song! He was preparing to fly you in for a date and I didn't want to spoil the surprise.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:48 pm:

Mel,

I'm really irritated at your last post - I thought that bone-headed attitude had hopefully died out.
Obviously I was wrong. If I see you use a term
like "shirtlifter" again I will be more than
disappointed, I will be seriously annoyed.

I realise you were trying to be funny - you
weren't.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.29) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:52 pm:

Jesus Davie,what can I say.Im Sorry.MEL.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.29) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:59 pm:

davie,I dont know what its like in Glasgow these days,But in our neck of the woods we speak our mind.MEL.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.56) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 02:11 pm:

Anyway davie,its been nice knowing one and all,but if its coming to walkiing on egg shells then I think Ill stay in the real world .mel.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.65) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 05:01 am:

Larry,could you please confirm if you recieved my E.Mail the other day.With Thanks,mel.

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 11:25 am:

Mel, Nope.
btw, you're not leaving here right?

By I was There (66.73.187.79) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 09:47 pm:

Hi Folks,
Just to keep the records straight Arnie Geller never produced any of the Spyder Turner records. He only managed Spyder and stole all the money from Spyder and Clay McMurray who was the Producer of all of the MGM product including "Stand By Me" You can't hide the truth forever ARNIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! since you took all the money at least give the credit to those who deserve it.

By JSmith (212.39.231.20) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 02:41 am:

My bio piece on Spyder has already been updated to credit Clay as being responsible for getting Spyder into the studio to cut "Stand By Me" and to also state that Clay (Butch) also produced the album tracks.

I still refer to Arnie as 'Executive Producer' but as we know that term can mean many things, ranging from just being a VIP present at the session to someone having major hands-on involvement in the studio.

The main cause of the confusion over these matters is the actual 'Stand By Me' MGM LP sleeve notes. In these, Arnie is credited with discovering Spyder, setting up the MGM deal, producing the tracks and other creative input. I guess the DJ who wrote the notes (can't recall his name at present) was a real buddy of Arnies.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 11:18 am:

Regarding Spyder and " Stand By Me "...It was ALL Clay..PERIOD!!!

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 11:35 am:

I Was There,

You bring up a reality that I find refreshing and horrifying at the same time. So Geller was a user and a thief?

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 01:09 pm:

HI ALL; JUST TO ADD PERHAPS A BIT OF PERSPECTIVE. FIRST OF ALL, WHILE I AM FAMILIAR WITH ARNIE'S REPUTATION IN MANY CIRCLES, MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH HIM IS THAT HE WAS ALWAYS PERSONABLE AND CONGENIAL. AS A SECOND COUSIN, I WOULD SEE ARNIE FROM TIME TO TIME AND HE ALWAYS CONDUCTED HIMSELF AS A GENTLEMAN. I WAS AROUND DURING THE PERIOD IN QUESTION, AND IN ADDITION TO KNOWING ARNIE, I ALSO HAD RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEMBERS OF THE "COUNTS", SPYDERS BAND. I NEVER KNEW OF ARNIE HAVING MUCH, IF ANY MUSICAL EXPERTISE, SO IT WOULD BE EASY TO BELIEVE THAT CLAY MCMURRAY WAS THE SOLE AND PRIMARY MUSICAL INFLUENCE BEHIND SPYDER'S HIT "STAND BY ME". ARNIE ALWAYS SEEMED TO ME TO BE MORE OF A FACILITATOR. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT WITHOUT ARNIE'S INVOLVEMENT, SPYDER PROBABLY NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT THE "COUNTS"...THUS NEVER HAVING HAD THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MGM SIGNING AND EVENTUAL RECORDINGS. I ALSO KNOW THAT ARNIE BELIEVED THAT SPYDER HAD AN IRRESPONSIBLE AND SOMEWHAT SELF-DESTRUCTIVE SIDE TO HIMSELF, AS IN THE STORY OF A CRASHED CADILLAC WHICH ARNIE HAD ALLEGEDLY PURCHASED FOR HIM. ALL OF THIS IS NOT TO DEFEND ARNIE AND HIS ALLEGED BUSINESS PRACTICES, FOR I REALLY DON'T KNOW ALL OF THE INSIDE DETAILS, BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY, AND LETS FACE IT...ARNIE WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST MUSIC MANAGER/PROMOTER TO ENRICH HIMSELF OFF OF THE TALENTS OF OTHERS...BUT PERHAPS WITHOUT ARNIE'S MANIPULATION, SPYDER NEVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECORD A TOP TEN HIT!!! REGARDS...STU

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

Stu,
I remember Arnie as this soft spoken polite business man. Your point is well taken. Perhaps there would have been no deal without his influence. So because of him, two careers were born. Spyder's and Clay McMurrays. It sure doesn't excuse the sitation though. And you're absolutely right, it's not the first time this has happened in the business.

By Millie (68.40.198.72) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 06:39 pm:

I worked for Arnie Geller when he was the national promotion guy for Polydor Records, and found him to be a warm, honest and true gentle man. We've maintained our friendship throughout the years, and when I hear all the negative things people on this forum are saying about him, it really upsets me. He's smart and savvy, and although I didn't know him in the Spyder days, what I know I like and respect. No one's perfect, and if he made a few mistakes, so be it...haven't we all??

By OntheOne (67.25.177.47) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 09:37 pm:

Seems the stockholders of Titanic don't think Arnie Geller is such a nice guy.

http://www.pilotonline.com/business/bz0417tit.html

By Millie (68.40.198.72) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 11:10 pm:

OntheOne,
I can only go by the way I was treated by Arnie Geller, and it was always with respect. I knew him quite well, and whatever he's allegedly done, has nothing to do with me, so my opinion of him stands.