By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 09:19 pm:

Since the legendary Levi Stubbs has been mentioned in conversation here, I felt like listening to one of my favorite Four Tops' songs, "The Way Nature Planned It." One of my favorite parts of that song is the bass... do any of our great Motown experts/Motown alumni know (or are willing to make a conjecture) who is doing the fantastic bass playing job on this wonderful Frank Wilson gem? :-)

By mhc (172.160.68.163) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 10:10 pm:

I'm sorry that I don't know, but I love that record too. To me those Frank Wilson early-70s productions sound very druggy. I remember listening to that record while stoned and really digging the fadeout, when that tom-tom hits the backbeat. Actually, now that I think about it, the "Nature Planned It" album had musicians' credits on the back (rare for that time on Motown), and it said "Bass (Personified): James Jamerson". So that's who it was.

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 11:25 pm:

MHC and Nish,

I had a feeling HIS name would come up on this one. I'd love to hear this track. Anyone got an .mp3 hangin around - oops did i something illegal?

p.s. trade ya for my rare mp3 of Stevie's Thank You Love with the man on bass. As SteveS said, (MHC, you gotta hear this)

"Jamerson's so far behind the beat, he's still playin' the last song".

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 11:31 pm:

MHC, thanks! I should know that, I have that album, although my records are in another state!

LOL @ digging the fadeout when you were stoned. I love that part, too, although I'm usually not under the influence of anything, LOL!

But Jamerson's bass on that song is one of my favorites. Also toward the end, when the tom-toms come in on the backbeat, Jamerson gets funkier at the end. Love it.

By Nish (170.224.224.102) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 11:33 pm:

>

HAHAHAHAHA!!! That's hilarious. That's why I always wonder if there was any Mingus influence on Jamerson sometimes.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 09:54 am:

Marshall,
yor remarks regarding the " druggy " sound of those early 70's Frank Wilson Four Tops productions made me smile. Very perceptive pal.( Let's see now...how can I put this...)
Frank and my brother were prone to working under the influence of an abundance of " herb '. When they were mixing I would periodically poke into the mixing room to see how they were doing. They would be so engrossed in their task that they would barely acknowledge my presence.

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:13 am:

Mr. Terrana, hilarious! The same goes for some of those Frank Wilson-produced Supremes. So that's why those sounds were so far-out, now I know! :-)

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:26 am:

Nish,
Frank and my brother worked very well together. In fact, Frank was my brother's favorite producer to work with. He was givin a wide range of freedom to experiment. You never quite knew what those two guys were going to come up with. Must have been something in the air.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:58 am:

Ralph:
Ditto regarding Frank Wilson - a wonderfully creative and seriously underrated producer. Speaking of "tripped out" productions, how about the Four Tops "Changing Times" album he produced in 1971. Great concept album that would have given the progressive rock dudes a run for the money. My favorite Frank Wilson production on Motown would have to be the Supremes "Right On" album. From "Up The Ladder To The Roof" to "But I Love You More," I would listen to this album over and over because the song selection was very strong and the production was so damned elegant!
Regards,
KevGo

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 12:14 pm:

I think i now know the meaning of 'stoned' love'after all these years! Frank and co were involved on that one.Either way he made great records.

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 06:47 pm:

James Jamerson and Dennis Wilson - Together at last. 3 bassists appear on the credits. The Man is one of em. The realities of a session player.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=916969571

By Nish (66.119.34.39) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 07:10 pm:

Warning: Kind of a long message.

Larry: I'm sorry, I forgot to mention in another message that I do not have "The Way Nature Planned It" on the computer, and as a complete rookie on the music swapping thing, I wouldn't know how to transfer it from CD/record to mp3. If you know how to give good directions, maybe you can list the steps, and I'll TRY to do it right!

Mr. Terrana, how interesting it must have been to see the other "RT" and Frank Wilson working together! I wonder how FW felt being the relative "new kid on the block" among Motown producers. Not that he didn't have capabilities as great as the others, but I would be SCARED knowing I had to live up to what Smokey, Hunter, McMurray, HDH, Whitfield, Stevenson, Paul, etc. were putting down for years! He obviously proved he could usher Motown into the next era with ease. And I think every motown producer had a trademark. In addition to the wonderfully spacey sounds, he really did interesting things percussively and rhythmically in all of his productions.

Everyone talks about Norman, Marvin, and Stevie taking Motown into uncharted musical territory, but Frank Wilson deserves a share of that honor too. Those Sups and Tops records stand as pioneer records.

One last bit - I find it wonderfully odd that Frank Wilson and Smokey Robinson shared songwriter's credits on "Still Water (Love)." I wonder who wrote the lyrics, who wrote the music. Their writing styles were so different to me, but it worked out great, obviously!

Kevgo: My favorite FW Sups album is "Touch" but Right On is groundbreaking to me!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 07:52 pm:

Nish,
Frank and my brother worked very well together. My brother enjoyed working with many of the great producers, but Frank was hs favorite. With Frank he was more free to experiment and I've mentioned in the past that my brother's brain is some sort of a sonic cartoon. Hence the funny beeps and wierd things on records he's worked on with Frank. I enjoyed watching them work together because they were both so obviously into what they were doing. If Frank had any qualms about his "new kid on the block" status he certainly did not show it.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 07:53 pm:

By the way Nish. The Stll Waters album is my brother's all time favorite. I can see why.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:30 am:

Ralph:
Since Brother Russ worked with Frank Wilson quite a bit, what it Russ' idea for the special effects on the Supremes' "Nathan Jones" (the drums sounding out of phase in certain parts of the record). Would love to know!
Peace,
KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:38 am:

Nish:
The "Right On" album was indeed groundbreaking for a couple of reasons. First - Jean Terrell taking over the lead vocals. Second, Frank Wilson's excellent production. The album featured the Supremes' first Top Ten (post-Diana) hit "Up The Ladder To The Roof" and the equally-good single "Everybody's Got The Right To Love." But overall the songs came from different composers (Clay, Ivy Jo Hunter, Frank, Pam Sawyer) and as a whole was a wonderfully produced album. It was also the first (and probably the only) Terrell-led album to have all original material from the Jobete gang (later albums included outside material).

Ralph:
Did Brother Russ have anything to do with this album?

Peace,
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:58 am:

Kev,
We had discussed the Nathan Jones phasing effects quite some time ago. What had happened was, Russ had set up this phasing effect to be used on a song Frank and he were getting ready to mix. Russ thought it would be effective for the song. The day before they had completed mixing Nathan Jones.The stereo mix just happened to be on the machine when Russ wanted to demonstrate to Frank how the phasing would sound on this particular song they were about to mix. The effect of the phasing was so dramatic on Nathan Jones that they used it on that particular song instead of whatever song it was they were intending to use the effect on.One of thse lucky " Studio Accidents ".

Nish,
I'm sure it must have been Russ on the Right On album. The timing would be right and he and Frank were insepparable during this time period.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 12:17 pm:

Frank, Stevie W. and Clay are probably the three most up-beat producers I remember.

You can read about what Frank is currently up to here:

http://www.frankandbunny.com/frank.htm

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.72) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 12:18 pm:

Hey Ralph,Ive always liked the Nathan Jones track,I Was looking through my Tamla Motown Story Boxed set of 5 L.PS Compilation set the other day,and noticed your kids (brother)name on all the credits.Yet another truly gifted individual,just as your fine self Ralph.And to be working with the truly great Frank Wilson says it all.Just 3 names that have done so much in the world of music,that have certainly given myself a lot of good times.Thanks to you all.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 12:55 pm:

Mel,
Terry Terrana is my brother's son. He worked for a short time at Motown training as an engineer. Today he is a musician. Guitar, just like his dad. He has been in various bands and has had a couple of CDs on the market with his former band Trial By Fire.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.67) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:15 pm:

Ralph,the family goes on from strength to strength,As I said a very truly talented family indeed.My best to your brothers son,and if he reaches anywhere near the heights of you and your kid,then hes not done so bad,thats for sure.Although in my eyes hes up there now with the best of them with what hes achieved already,good luck to him Ralph.MEL.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.52) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 03:17 pm:

Ralph,David Meikle,I Would just like to say what an absolute honour it has been talking to the likes of your fine selves as well as a hell of a lot of others on this fine web-site.But I think its time I joined The Count and bid farewell.Too many touchy and very un-humourous people are jumping on the smallest thing,plus I wont be talked down to by nobody.This may be all trivial,but if a word like shirt lifter offends the likes of Davie Gordon,then its about time to bid adieu.I Hope to see you all in the real world.MEL.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 05:52 pm:

Mel,
Im still trying to detrmine what is wrong here, but for the time being sit tight. Thanks.
Ralph

By TD (67.24.151.22) on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:45 pm:

Getting Back to the original question, on page 63 of Standing In the Shadows of Motown, it reads:
On the Four Tops Nature Planned it Alblum,Jamersons credit reads-Bass(personified)... James Jamerson..

TD

By mhc (172.148.7.173) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 10:21 pm:

I got out my Joel Whitburn book today and was stunned to discover that "Nature Planned It" NEVER MADE the Billboard Top 40; it wasn't a national hit, at least not on the Pop charts. I remember it being really huge on CKLW, and it was certainly a big favorite of mine. After reading this thread last week I got out my old 45 and played it, and it still gives me a contact high (LOL, Ralph)..

By Livonia Ken (206.148.225.162) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 10:37 pm:

"It's the Way Nature Planned It" was a top ten R&B hit, but it stalled short of top 40 pop. Of course, within two months of the release of that single, the Four Tops released the "Keeper of the Castle" single for ABC/Dunhill which did well on the pop charts. Maybe Motown did not give them the full-on promotional push for that last single.

Regards,
Ken

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 11:57 pm:

The Music Business. Strange bedfellows.

By TD (65.210.112.50) on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 04:50 pm:

FYI

The Keeper of the Castle album is one of the finest albums ever made- Highly reccommend all of you getting this. Every song is original and truely outstanding.
Listen to "Please Remember What I Told You To Forget", "The Good Lord Knows"- written and sung by Mr. Payton,
Actually two other very under rated Four Top Albums in addition to Keeper Of the Castle are Tonight- with the great should have been a Motown song "When She Was My Girl" and Indistructable- an album that was excellent- listen to "Change Of Heart".

TD

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:43 am:

"Keeper Of The Castle" (1972-73) was a very popular album when I was a kid. My brother (who was in college at the time) and all his friends had the LP so I remember hearing it quite a bit. This was an album that pretty much brought the Four Tops back to the Top Ten Pop Charts (the album I believe was a top ten LP as well)thanks to the title track and "Ain't No Woman Like The One I Got." Kudos to Dennis Lambert & Brian Potter for their fine production as well as the Tops having the artistic freedom to contribute some great songs.
KevGo

By TD (67.27.149.23) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 08:48 pm:

KevGo

The album actually reached number 33. It ceraily should have been a number one album.
Outstanding.

TD