By john c (12.81.196.138) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 02:11 am: |
I've been listening to the Cellarful of Motown cd on my way to work the past few weeks, and I keep thinking to myself, "That one could have been a hit." The artists/producers must have often thought the same thing after hearing their finished product. What a bummer it must have been to have your release cancelled. How did that process take place, that is, deciding not to release a recording. How did the artists handle the fact that these recordings would probably never see the light of day? And how do they feel now, that some of these gems are finally out?
By Vickie (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 02:53 am: |
John Lester, Ritchie, or Harry W....
Can you confirm that Tammi's Cellar hit "All I Do" may be on the charts over in the UK and if this is true - how can I research that a little further? Magzines, press, ect...Would that be Billboard Magazine?
Let me know...
Vickie
TammiProject@aol.com
By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 03:07 am: |
John, I aggree with your sentiments here. I guess there was so much talent and creativity going on that lots of stuff just got canned. I would have thought that there would have been only so many records you could release at any one time. Motown had priorities I believe, keeping their rosta of first division acts at the top. I heard an interview with Jimmy Ruffin years ago when he said he'd just done "Brokenhearted", he knew it was good. It was his chance at stardom. They were listening to it in the studio when Dianna Ross took an interest, liking the song. Jimmy thought "Oh No, If Dianna wants it the full weight of the promotion machine would go behind it and my version would be resigned to an LP track at best". Thank god it never happened. The 70,s arrived, music styles changed. All this wonderful music left unknown for us to discover years later. I'm sure the Guys on this site will quickly put me right if anything i've said needs correcting or expanding. Regards.
By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 09:21 am: |
Vickie,
I'm really puzzled by this reference to Tammi being on the charts. It's not out here as a single so I can't see how it could possibly be
on any "official" chart.
What it might mean is that it's listed in some
DJ's list of what he's playing at the moment - maybe in "Blues and Soul" or one of the other music mags.
Did your source give any hint to which "chart"
they were referring ?
By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:03 am: |
Tammi on the charts is news to me, though wouldn't that be something?! Sounds more like a playlist to me too. UK charts are based on sales, of course, not number of radio plays. (These days, our pop charts tend to be a league-table showing whose media promotion campaign is the most successful, but that's another story...)
By Common (209.2.55.114) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:15 am: |
Hello Vickki,
Did you get my email? :o)
Peace!
By StingBeeLee (155.139.68.10) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:07 am: |
I was not there at Motown, but here goes my thoughts. First and foremost, this was the sixties. Although it worked to Motown's advantage to have been there in the sixties, with more open playlists, it also worked to Motown's disadvantage as it was the sixties and there were radio stations that would not play "black" records. If some radio stations played the occasional Motown release, sometimes a STAX/Atlantic release, and perhaps an independent company's release, then that was it. Gordy knew this would happen, so he created various other labels besides Motown to "fool" the program director to think that this was not necessarily product from the same company. From what I understand, (some) radio stations in the South, West and the Plain states absolutely refused to play anything associated with a so called Black company. So Gordy had to be careful with what he released, and the number of releases. That Motown was so successful in the sixties just boggles the mind, as they were up against so much.
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:09 am: |
HW once said to me regarding the Motown tracks that never saw the light of day past the infamous quality control meetings. He said, "Back then, there was A and then there was A+" I guess that says it all.
KevGo
By Vickie (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:17 am: |
Hey All,
Not sure what chart this was in reference too. I actually read this info posted somewhere else, I heard that it stemmed from a comment Ludie made - So I'll ask her next time we talk what she meant - believe it or not The Forum is faster than the phone at times to get an answer
Yes, Yes Common I got your email and I sent you a long reply ....Did you get mine?
I figured this may have meant a DJ list perhaps - it was enough to get me wondering and post something to see if you all heard it too or read it ...I think it was in a Yahoo Group I saw this..
Thanks...
Vickie
By Common (209.2.55.113) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |
Vickie,
I didn't get it. Did you just send it?
Peace!
By Vickie (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:53 pm: |
I sent it awile ago - a few days
I'll send it again..
it was to a Yahoo address
By Vickie (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:55 pm: |
Common,
I sent it to a Hotmail account..
I just fowarded it to your Yahoo account..
Let me know if you don't receive it - that's really weird...
Vickie
By Common (209.2.55.113) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
Hey Vickie,
I got it in my yahoo account & responded. Don't know why I didn't receive it in my hotmail. That is weird.
Peace!
By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 03:31 pm: |
Hello Sting Bee and All,
Having worked in radio before I worked at Motown, GW, Theme, Sound/Seidra and United Sound, I can assure you that everyone knew that Motown and ALL of the associated labels that were connected with it were owned by Berry Gordy and that they were black owned. And just as with all of the arts, it did not make one bit of difference either way. If the record was good and was within format, it got played if the jock liked it. There were no tightly formated playlists like today. It was in NO WAY racially driven!
Now, with that said, this made it even more important that the product was TOP NOTCH!!! This meant able to compete against other products from other lables at that time. Clay (QC at Motown at that time) and I were talking last week and we said that there was good reason those products were not released...they were NOT AS GOOD as the products beside them or they did not fit the market at the time. (That,along with some political reasons too.)
As an engineer who did some of those products at the time, I listen now and can honestly say that they did not stand up to other products beside them. Yes, my mixes were not as good as say, Russ's. Or the song was not as good as "whomever." That is the real world!!! That's why every label has rejects. Tough luck.
How sad it is that the products that are out there now are SO BAD, that our rejects SOUND GOOD.
By StingBeeLee (68.43.129.202) on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 11:46 pm: |
Ed; Thanks for the reply from someone who was there. I get most of my info from reading, and I have come across your name, along with Ralph, Russ, Clay, Mike/Tech and I cannot believe that I'm hearing from the people who were there and know firsthand what happened. And more recently, Katherine Anderson Schaffer of the Marvelettes on this forum? All I can say is Wow. Thanks for answering without getting too mad.
I just heard a couple of months ago, that "Dancing in the Streets" had just been certified double platinum. How is this possible? Didn't the record sell in the millions when it was released?
Does this mean that this count of sales is from 1977 (when Motown joined RIAA?) until 2002?
By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 01:34 am: |
Thanks for that ED, Motown rejects keep making my day!
By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 03:25 pm: |
Sting:
Your question regarding RIAA certifications of Motown releases should be addressed to Harry Weinger - he's been the one instrumental in having Motown "catch up" with getting the gold and platinum records.
KevGo