By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 05:49 pm:

Ralph

As I mentioned elsewhere I am currently in possession of a beautiful set of Golden World releases. Part of this project that I'm trying to put together.

I'd love to hear a bit more about "The Swingin' Kind" because it sounds a bit different to me, in terms of progression. A bit more funky/staccato than the norm at that time. Written by the group too.

How did that work out in terms of accreditation? Did you all have somewhat equal input? I f you know what I mean.

Regards "All Alone", I thoroughly enjoyed it tonight on probably only second play.

Arranged by the great Sonny Sanders.

Ed Wingate was credited with production.

Here's another one of those mad memory questions...Does it seem like yesterday?

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:07 pm:

Hi David,
The Swinging Kind was a group effort in writing. I think we had the music before we had the lyrics. The way we had the music originally it was not funky at all. More pop oriented I suppose. I don't remember much about the lyric writing side of it. I seem to remember we finished the lyrics at a rehearsal at the Club Cliche. Basically, to answer one of your questions, I would say it was a fairly equal effort from the group. Pete had writtin All Alone so that was a solo effort in writing. We then hired Sonny Sanders to produce the record. I don't remember how we happen to go to Sonny or even what we knew about him, but it was a lucky break. Sonny listened to us play the track to Swingin Kind and then TOTALLY changed it to what it would become. During these sessions I think the group would become elevated to a higher plateau musically and I give Sonny all the credit. He was a total gas to work with. So talented and so much fun to be around. A real up-beat, friendly guy. To address another of your questions, I'm not sure what the Wngate Production on the label is all about. Production credits are given to Pete and Sonny. To this day I can't remember why Pete was givin production credits. Maybe it was just his talent being rewarded. Peter is a MONSTER musicaly David, make no mistake about it. To answer your final question...at times I realize it was another lifetime ago that these sessions took place. However they have become indelible in my memory and at times it does seem something that happened just a short while ago.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.92) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 05:51 am:

David,Ralph,you both brought back a few old memories there for me with the sunliners and All Alone that I remember getting many years ago.Isnt it great how so many different sounds mean so many different things to a persons life.Good things or Bad things theres always a certain record from a time,era,that will hit the spot and send yoy back into time.The first thing that always springs to mind regards the above mentioned track,was regards my late mate Pete Lawson who you met David.For Ralph,this guy was quite a guy to say the least,and when we liked a sound we would both play it over and over,anyway after an all-nighter back at a flat I had,I even got to pete in the end as I must of played that sound at least over and over for a good 2hrs.And getting to Mr.Lawsons head was a feat indeed.Sounds trivial I Know,but thats the thing I mean about a certain record for certain moments in a persons life.Thanks for your time.mel(in the twi-light zone,look there again,I say Twi-light zone and wham,The Astors comes to mind,although I prefer the b-side,enough already).

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:05 pm:

Ralph:
I've been communicating with Sonny Sanders for the past few months because of my work in Chicago. I will pass your comments along to him - I'm sure he would love to hear from you.
Regards,
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:40 pm:

Kev,
Please give my warmest regards to Sonny when you talk to him. It would be a thrill for me to communicate with him.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:42 pm:

Ralph:
Will do.

By John Rhys (63.198.70.120) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 07:15 pm:

To KevGo....
Could you please tell Sonny Sanders that I sent my best regards to him and his family. I would love to hear from him.
Thank you,
John Rhys

By Ralph Terrana (ralph) (209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 07:20 pm:

So look who shows up here.John Rhys. The Sunliners next producer. Hey John. I have a question. How did you come to produce us? Was it through Golden World or was there some other arrangements that I can't seem to remember? You still hold title to the greatest Sunliner record ever produced ( Heart Of The City ) if we could ever find a copy of it to see if it was really all it was cracked up to be. I remember it as a MONSTER!!

By Ralph Terrana (ralph) (209.240.198.62) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 07:29 pm:

John,
I just had a thought. If we could piece Heart Of The City together ( I remember some of it ) we do it on Teddie. Think about it!!

By mhc (172.146.83.130) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 12:12 am:

"She like to water-ski (Yeah..)
Surfin' sets her free (Yeah..)"
I remember "The Swingin' Kind", although I'd forgotten about it. Good one, Ralph.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:09 am:

John:
I plan on calling Sonny this week. I will relay your regards to him.
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:14 am:

Marshall,
You remember more of the lyrics than I do.They weren't very deep were they.

By Larry (64.156.145.224) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:49 am:

Ralph,
So what song did you play in the urinal scene?
;)

By Larry (64.156.145.224) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:49 am:

oops, wrong thread

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 01:36 pm:

Larry,
I wouldn't be suprised if we played Happy Wanderer. Good Question. I'll have to ask Fred Saxon or my brother if they remember.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:15 pm:

Kev,
An e-mail was forwarded to me from Sonny. This blew me totally away. It was great hearing from him. I have invited him to the forum and told him I would start a Sonny Sanders thread if he is interested in coming on. It would be amazing to have him here. One of the original GREATS!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:20 pm:

Ralph:
I'm so glad Sonny has reached out to you. He needs to know that there are people out there who more than admire his work and that folks like yourself are still out there in the world. I'll be calling him later on this week so I will relay whatever regards you want to send.
Regards,
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:22 pm:

Thanks Kev. Get him to the forum. What a treat that will be for all of us.

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:19 pm:

Ralph,
Who's Sonny Sanders?

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:23 pm:

Larry,
Sonny is a heavy hitter to say the least. he is an original member of the Satintones which were one of Motown's earliest groups. He got involved with a lot of things at Motown before going independent. He is the producer of Romeo and Juliet and some earlier Edwin Starr things at Golden World.
Basically he is one of those guys that have done it all, and as Mel would say...and then some.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:28 pm:

Excellent Ralph! Mel, you could have well set a trend off on here with this ....then some business! I am even tempted to create a nickname, but I think I would be nicking your copyright guvn'r.

Look at that thread with some of his arranging credits. What a list. Well done David.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:31 pm:

Larry:
William "Sonny" Sanders is an arranger, composer, producer & former singer who came out of Detroit and presently resides in Chicago. He was a founding member of the Satintones (an early Motown vocal group) who quickly learned the art of arranging while working for Gordy. For reasons too many to mention, Sonny started freelancing and wound up working for Ed Wingate's group of labels. The first hit record he arranged (according to him) was the Reflections' "(Just Like) Romeo & Juliet" with the Funks providing the instrumentation. Then came Edwin Starr's "Agent Double-O-Soul" and the tracks he did with Ralph's group the Sunliners. Of course, Gordy wasn't thrilled to see one of his former employees using his current employees at the competition. So, Sonny moved to Chicago and hooked up with Carl Davis at Brunswick Records. Some of the hits he arranged - "Whispers," "Higher & Higher", "I Get The Sweetest Feeling" (Jackie Wilson); "I'm Gonna Miss You", "Girl I Need You" (Artistics); "There Goes The Lover," "The Girl Don't Care" (Gene Chandler);"Love Makes A Woman," "Just Ain't No Love" (Barbara Acklin);"Give It Away" (Chi-Lites).
Sonny also co-wrote "Love Makes A Woman" and Young-Holt Unlimited's million-seller "Soulful Strut" (also known as "Am I The Same Girl" by Barbara Acklin). Sonny continued to arrange for Brunswick until 1975, when Jackie Wilson collapsed at the Latin Casino. Sonny also co-wrote "Angel" for Aretha Franklin.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:51 pm:

Thanks Kev,
I've had this stupid smile on my face all morning since I got the e-mail from Sonny.
Once again I am deeply indebted to David and Lowell for Soulful Detroit.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 05:32 pm:

Amen,Ralph.
KevGo

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 05:34 pm:

The Love she's a spreadin all over.
Thanks guys for the info and the additions to my growing list of tunes to find.

By Russ Terrana (198.178.8.81) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 07:01 pm:

To me, Sunny was one of the greatest of the greats! His style was only matched by his talents and personalty. I spent many hours in the studio with Sunny and it was always a creative experience. Best to you Sunny!!!

By Russ Terrana (198.178.8.81) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 07:03 pm:

To me Sunny was, and is, one of the greatest of the greats. His talents and personalty was matched by his creative style. I spent many hours in the studio with Sunny and became a better engineer because of him.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 07:08 pm:

You said it, Russ!
KevGo

By thecount (64.53.165.90) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 07:30 pm:

RALPH,RUSS,and DENNIS.I have all SUNLINERS material,and "RARE EARTH" as I'am good friends of GIL,who will be at our KONTINENTALS dance.But I have here in my hands a M/G/M lable,special disc jockey record.
"WELL ONE"(coffey-theodore)
prod.and arr.by Theodore&Coffey
For Sussex Productions,inc.
"LAND OF NOD"(hoorelbeke-harve-theodore)
"THE SUNLINERS"
prod.and arr.by Theodore&Coffey
for sussex productions,inc.
I chose to ask information about this particular 45 because of the M.G.M. lable and the sounds in LAND OF NOD.It sounds like the engineers are playing a record backwards for some of the effects.Very interesting.(wow man turn on the black lites) P.S. DENNIS,if you can get away from the CLAWSON on the 14th.DEC. please come join us at our dance.This would be such an honer to all us "KONTINENTALS,and another spot for the special guest celeberties.P.S.S.Thanx Ralph for letting me post our announcement.
"COUNT"

By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 10:25 pm:

I was gonna have my ol lady scan this 45 of the SUNLINERS for me,being that I dont know how.Shes pissed at me right now so hopefuly tomorrow.I cant understand why shes pissed,she wanted a washer and dryer for her birthday,so I got her a DUESCH BAG and CANNON TOWEL.(hope she at lease uses it).OH well,I tried.
"COUNT"

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 10:42 pm:

Count,
I'm afraid I'm going to have to give you a few lessons on how to deal with women pal. You see to be missing a few things. Of course with my track record...whatever I tell you just do the oppsite.

By Larry (65.59.31.160) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:03 pm:

Lololol Ralph.
What's the 'thread count' in that towel?
And for that matter what's a Deusche Bag?
Oh....you mean douche...Oooooooo
Eeeeeeeeeeeee

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:16 pm:

Yeah Count. I don't think your going to win any spelling bees.

By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 04:46 pm:

YEA RALPH,I know I'am terrible at spelling,as you have seen in the past postings.I'am truley sorry.Once in school I was asked to spell FARM,and I started singing,E-I-E-I-O.
Hey,tell me about the M/G/M record and what went on there.I'am gonna play the part Backards in LAND OF NOD just to see if that is a record beinging backwards.P.S.I really got the ol lady pissed now.I told her I would like to take her with me every where I go,so I dont have to kiss her good-bye.
"COUNT"

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 05:08 pm:

Count,
I've heard that a sign of superior intelligence is not being able to spell very well, so I wouldn't sweat it pal. Regarding the MGM single with The Sunliners we may have to rely on Dennis Coffey or Mike Theodore for information. They were the producers on this and I was out of the band at this time.

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 05:53 pm:

Count,
Tells us how you really feel about your lady.
E-I-E-I-O! Lolol

By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 05:55 pm:

Hey Ralph, Here is the record you are not on. Why aren't you on this? It sounds like you. Anyhow, Gil will explain or Dennis.
Thanx
"Count"

By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 05:57 pm:

P.S. Side 2
This is Count's wife doing this, I gave in.

By thecount (64.53.143.173) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 06:14 pm:

Hey LARRY,I cant,shes right here.She thinks I dont like her family,but I keep telling her I love her mother in law and father in law better then my father and mother in law.She is a great lady though,look what she puts up with,and she loves it.She says all you people on this forum have to be the greatest people in the world,because music people are the wackiest,and thats what makes them and all us here in the music world wonderful people.I think she should put her reservations in for "ELOISE"
"COUNT"

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 07:53 pm:

Count,
At the time of the MGM deal I was putting Tera Shirma together. That is where this record was recorded. Gil will have to give you the rest of the details.

By Mike Theodore (68.38.221.96) on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 03:11 pm:

"The land of Nod" was the lyric creation of a writer and friend from the Detroit area-Gary Harvey. It was the product of early use of sound on sound and bouncing tracks from machine
to machine. There was the use of backward recording of Pete and John's voices as well as the overlay of a string recording from an old Ernie Stratton string session . The music was performed by the group with the addition of a piccolo player. Those were the days when it was always an adveture to create and inovate in the studio.
Mike Theodore

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 03:22 pm:

Thanks Mike,
You and Dennis were pretty good at pushing envelopes in those bygone days.

By Dennis Coffey (205.188.209.38) on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 09:01 am:

Hey Ralph. Don't forget when you gave us the keys to Tera Shirma, we started working in the studio after I finished playing my bar gig at night and had fun experimenting. I remember that eventually Mike and I would look in the musician's union phone book and if we found a weird instrument and someone to play it, we used it on our next session. Things like contra bassoon, bass sax, motorcycle? (Oh, that was at Golden World with John Rhys), bagpipes (Not weird, just different for a funk session)and whatever else we could find.

Dennis

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 09:05 am:

Dennis,
I remember you guys experimenting with one of those atificial larynxes that people use who have lost their voice.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.27) on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 09:07 am:

Hey Dennis,were you involved with The MacGallop on Tera shirma Label by Milton Hamish Wright then?MEL.