By MikeMaltese (151.204.102.74) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:05 pm:

Hey there,

Does anyone know who owns United Sound building, and what it's future might be. I heard a rumor that there are plans to demolish it (I hope it's not true).

Thanks,

Mike

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:57 pm:

I've heard that a marketing firm has taken over the building for now but the machinery, instruments and equipment are allegedly gone.
KevGo

By MikeMaltese (151.204.102.74) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 05:32 pm:

Shattered. I drove by the building this past summer and noticed the windows were boarded up. Would love to know who owns it...Don Davis?

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:07 am:

I talked to Will Davis (Don's Brother)about this situation during the summer and he indicated that the heating and cooling system needed major work along with other building updates. With the music industry becoming a "COTTAGE" industry, with less and less need for "real" studios and "real" engineers, United was no longer economically viable. Additionally, the city was requiring other unreasonable updates like wheel chair access, an elevator to all floors ect. This was the death knoll for United as it could not support itself.

It is simply a matter of economics. I can understand, as there is little need for my music "engineering" services any more. Most of my work is design and technical. Sadly, times have changed!

By David Meikle (213.1.191.40) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:50 am:

Poignant note Ed.

By Julian (64.12.97.7) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 10:48 am:

United Sound sits on the site of a coming "technology park." Maybe they will still use the structure instead of tearing it down. Wayne State University, which is adjacent to the site and will be affiliated with the technology project, I believe, has a few big old houses sitting right in the middle of its campus!

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 05:25 pm:

As a graduate of WSU and knowing the mindset of the school today, other than a few people in the Music School, I doubt whether they understand the historical nor cultural signifigance, nor do they care at all, about what is standing on the corner of Second Ave. and Antonette (SP) today.

That is a sad but, I believe, highly accurate comment on both the administration of the school and the city.

By Julian (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:35 am:

I know it probably won't get a historical marker (if it survives) but I was thinking maybe WSU or the techies would use the building for a department headquarters or other type of office space. Then we'd still have or building, it just be dressed up a little differently.

BTW I need to get back to WSU and finish my degree. I only had 8 classes left before I stalled out!

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:24 am:

Jullian,

If all you have to finish is a few credit hours you could probably finish at an on line much cheaper than at Wayne. (Besides that, I am no fan of Wayne after they managed to loose numerous other student records, mine included. Hopefully, they will still have yours!!!) There are many good external degree granting schools, and you can do it at your own pace. What was your major? (Or better contact me off line and we can discuss this.)

Ed

By acooolcat (210.201.192.219) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:43 am:

Ed,
Do you think a letter writing blitz to WSU by people here on the forum would help to save the building from the hammer?
Graham

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 02:21 pm:

Graham,

I would like to hope we might do something, but I don't think WSU has purchased it yet. Although United is on the WSU campus proper. Unless the city has grabbed it by eminant domain, back taxes, or some other legal trick, I think Don Davis still owns it. I'll check on that this week and post it. It would take big bucks to fix it up though.

We alway must remember that when it concerns U.S. politics there are no morals and if you want the real answer..."follow the bucks"!!!

Ed

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

I have a comedy Lp mastered at United Sound Systems, Inc., engineered by Jim Hartsell.

The album from the now defunct 'Big Sound Records' was a live recording circa '68 at a club in Detroit called "Half-Pints", owned by Bobby Rodgers. Title of the Lp and long running Comedy Revue is "War? You Gotta Be Kidding!"
It's a satire on the Middle-east "situation".

Anyone out there remember this show?

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 08:36 pm:

Jim Hartsell was a production engineer at United, who later went to work at Special Recording Co. on the Blvd. Danny Dallas was a former engineer at Special before he came to United and later at Pioneer Recording.

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 09:56 pm:

Thanks Ed. Not that anyone cares, but, the address for Big Sound records? My grandmother's house in Oak Park!!

Her sons (my Uncles Cy and Shel) started the label. Not sure what else was released on it.

By Jay Palmer (167.167.44.218) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 10:33 pm:

United Sound
My memories as my dad did many sessions there and as a kid I got to go to them. When they said the "booth" it was like a phone booth!
I, with my sister actually sung a couple commercials there. Man, great memories!
Yes and it would be good to somehow preserve this little piece of Detroit legacy.

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:11 pm:

JAY; GREETINGS. I NOTICED YOUR LAST NAME, AND WAS JUST WONDERING IF PERHAPS...BY CHANCE...YOUR DAD IS DON PALMER? IF SO, PLEASE LET US KNOW. IF NOT...WHAT DID YOUR DAD PLAY??? THANKS...STU

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:30 pm:

That is he and he is doing great here in LA.
He is still doing studio work and regularly plays on the weekly recording for the Simpsons TV show. One of the last shows that employs an orchestra for the show music.

By larry (12.141.160.25) on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 11:42 pm:

Very cool Jay. What instrument does your dad play and are you a musician as well?

By Clay (66.73.176.250) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 08:43 am:

Guys,
Home and Basement studio's with Adats,880's,1680's,2480's and computers with tons of digital toys rule these days. Real rooms like United,Golden World and Hitsville will never rise again. It's kinda like when the Train replaced the Stagecoach!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm probably one of the last old Studio buffs in this town. And although I like 2 inch recording I add a little Ed Wolfie,along with the digital arena in mixing and mastering to keep my projects from being cast as relics LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! I miss the real deal studios,but technology has change the game. Peace

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:00 pm:

JAY; YOUR DAD IS A LEGENDARY STUDIO MUSICIAN BOTH IN DETROIT AND L.A. HE IS ONE OF MY BROTHER'S CLOSE FRIENDS AND I HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE I WAS KNEE HIGH TO A DOUBLE BASS. LARRY; DON PALMER IS A FINE STRING PLAYER...I ORIGINALLY KNEW OF HIM AS A BASS PLAYER IN THE OLD DAYS IN DETROIT, AND NOW I BELIEVE PLAY'S MOSTLY VIOLIN. ALSO, ONE OF THE NICEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET...STU

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:06 pm:

JAY; YOUR DAD IS A LEGENDARY STUDIO MUSICIAN BOTH IN DETROIT AND L.A. HE IS ONE OF MY BROTHER'S CLOSE FRIENDS AND I HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE I WAS KNEE HIGH TO A DOUBLE BASS. LARRY; DON PALMER IS A FINE STRING PLAYER...I ORIGINALLY KNEW OF HIM AS A BASS PLAYER IN THE OLD DAYS IN DETROIT, AND NOW I BELIEVE PLAY'S MOSTLY VIOLIN. ALSO, ONE OF THE NICEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET...STU

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:07 pm:

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST!!!

By g wiz (68.43.160.189) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:14 pm:

hello ed wolfrum

can you tell will davis iam looking for him
and ask him too call me at 586-995-6000
thanks, how you been ,i was at your house in the mid 1970's or early 80's didnt you have a studio there i was doing some thing with johnny powers

glenn lasiuta

By Jay Palmer (24.55.22.104) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 02:05 pm:

STUBASS

Warning! Long Post Here!!!!

Thanks STUBASS My dad Don Palmer is the greatest.
We were just back to Detroit 2 weeks ago.
Wayne State University had a Lifetime Arts Achievement Award for him. He was able to work with the music students (he brought some original music) and had an impromptu mini-concert with The Matt Michaels Trio featuring him on jazz violin.
I am the oldest of seven and we ALL flew out to surprise him at the awards ceremony. It was a great weekend!

Today, Matt Michaels and Dennis Tini are really carrying the torch for Jazz and Jazz Education in Detroit and WSU! Bravo Guys!

Back in the late 50s and early 60s it was pretty common for him to be working (playing bass) at WXYZ with the likes of Joe Messina in the famed Soupy Sales late night show band. They actually featured him with a violin solo occasionally. Imagine THAT today?

Playing sessions, jingles, records, industrial films etc at United Sound was the norm.
Juggling that with getting a Masters at Wayne, being a church choir director and raising 7 of us, I do NOT know how he did it!
When we were kids, my sister and I actually sang on a couple commercials recorded at United Sound.
So that place holds a lot of fond memories for me.

Some of my info is on the Recording Guitars and Bass at Studio B thread.
But suffice to say that the majority of my present-day music experience is that of (with my wonderful wife Rose) accompanying, arranging, and recording for our 14 year old daughter who is bound and determined to be a pro singer. Whoa is life a twister or what?

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 05:00 pm:

Great memories Jay.

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:36 pm:

JAY; THANKS FOR THE INFO. YOU CERTAINLY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE PROUD!!! STU

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 01:44 pm:

Jay,

I used to go see your Dad play bass with Jack Brokensha, Matt Michaels and Ursula Walker, and even worked up the nerve to sit in with them a few times. Your Dad was incredibly gracious and supportive, and a terrific player. As I recall it, one of your brothers was a pretty good bass player and singer too, but I can't remember his first name - maybe Dan?

SteveS

By Jay (167.167.44.218) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 02:28 am:

Brother Dan is out here (SoCal) and works as Digital Products manager at Otari Corporation. A few weeks ago he could be found sitting in playing bass at a club in northern Oakland County MI. Some things change and others stay the same!

By SteveS (68.41.251.33) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 02:27 pm:

Jay,

My memory is pretty hazy, but I seem to recall that your Dad played a very strange electric bass (fretless?), perhaps one that he built himself. Hallucination or ???

SteveS

By a local resident (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 07:15 pm:

"I drove past the building this summer, and noticed the windows were boarded up"

Actually, the boards are down, at least on the ground floor. Also, the jungle outside has been trimmed, and some of the ghetto palms cut back. The inside seems to have been tidied up a little as well, as far as you can tell from the outside.

I spoke to one of the people working on tidying up the outside, and he indicated that someone had just bought the building, and was considering his options, including re-establishing a studio, or turning it into a museum.

If anyone knows who does own the building, perhaps they could contact me via my e-mail. I'd really like to talk to them.

Thanks.

By Jay (24.55.22.104) on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 09:10 pm:

Steve I guess my reply disappeared!

My dad played a no-name bass with a maple neck, ebony fingerboard and fender-like 2 piece design and scale.
It was stolen from his car.

Later he use a neck-through-the-body stereo Rickenbacker 4002

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 07:39 am:

A Local Resident

This sounds very promising, thanks for giving us an update.

For details on owners try the City Council Property Database and type in the address.... 5840 Second.

Use http://www.google.com to search for the website address.

By kim culhan (68.42.41.167) on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 09:24 am:

Located this web site for finding info on Detroit addresses:

http://www4.ci.detroit.mi.us/CityofDetroit/LongLegal.asp

This shows the Tax Address for United Sound: 65 Cadillac Square, Room 900.

Try entering 3246 Davison, Motown Studio B

Or 9430 Woodward, Site of Artie Fields Productions where the Type is described as:

'SPECIAL PURPOSE COMMERCIAL TYPE BUILDINGS'

Also under AKA Address: L Shaped Bldgs. -There were some which were L-shaped

-kim

By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:04 pm:

So it seems that the City of Detroit is listed as the owner of United Sound now.

By a local resident (152.163.188.68) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 06:52 pm:

"So it seems that the City of Detroit is listed as the owner of United Sound now."

Why do you say that? Is 65 Cadillac Square a City of Detroit office? Or do you know something else?

Thanks.

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 10:01 am:

Yes. 65 Cadillac Square, P&DD, is the City's Planning and Development Department. Very interesting turn of events here. Hope the city doesn't want to knock it down.

By FREDL (67.38.30.7) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 05:48 pm:

I TO SAW THE SAD SHAPE UNITED'S BULDING IS IN.
I'M VERY SAD. I DID A LOT OF RECORDING THERE.
SIGN OF THE TIMES

FRED L. BRIDGES

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.26) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 04:49 am:

Dear Fred,

I will never forget the summer of 1961, when I invited myself over to United, and Jim Siricuse (spelling?) took over an hour to show me the place from attic to basement. What a thrilling day that was.

He actually took me up to the attic and showed me an old recorder that he had built that used some kind of thermo process. It had not worked out, but he was very proud of his attempt to build it.

Fred, I want to take you out to dinner, on me. Are you located in the Los Angeles area?

You need to be cheered up! I have been very depressed since my wife Helen died last February. I think we need to have a long talk, with an eye toward rediscovering all that is right about being alive.

What do you say?

Mike McLean

By Damo (217.39.201.160) on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 10:25 am:

Is this building for sale?