By JSmith (212.39.231.20) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 03:01 am:

I know a number of threads here have dealt with local Detroit venues from back in the day (20 Grand, Phelps, etc.) but I don't recall much being said about the Greystone Ballroom. As I understand it, Motown owned this at one time and conducted 'Battle of the Band' concerts here. Anyone recall these at all ???

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 09:23 am:

I think that was the venue where the Velvelettes
beat the Supremes in a Battle of the Bands

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.34) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 02:03 pm:

Werent these a regular occurrence(is that the correct spelling)?The Battle of the bands,Im certain these happened a lot.MEL.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:05 pm:

Motown bought the Greystone Ballroom during the mid '60s and Mike McLean installed an extremely sophisticated sound system for the time. I'd love to hear about what the company's intentions were. I remember a fabulous stereo recording of the Choker Campbell band that Mike made there.

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:25 pm:

The Graystone (note the spelling) was used to record the Four Tops' jazz sessions in 1963. I have also heard some of the producers talk about it as a rehearsal room and song lab - it's where Whitfield came up with Cloud Nine before it was recorded in Studio A.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:23 pm:

Graystone! ...and I was sweating mis-spelling Choker Campbell's name!

Mike's recording was made using a single Neumann SM-2 stereo mike. I think it was just a test recording of a rehersal to try out the mike rather than anything intended for release. Were those Four Tops recordings 3-track?

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:34 am:

Harry and all,

Jimmy Siracuse told me that the Graystone had a rich history "Before Motown" as a dance palace in the 30's - early 50's. Ellington, Basie, Dorsey and all of the big bands played there.

I was there, (although not working for Motown then,) when Mike did the recording of the Choker Campbell band, I think, with the SM2 and an Ampex 602-2, monitoring with Permaflux headphones. It sounded great on the headphones. I would love to of heard that back on a good monitor system however.

I remember Mike doing an earlier posting about that recording but I can't remember the details. The key to minimal mike recording is good monitoring and I question just how good those early Permaflux headphones were.

Harry, is that 7.5 ips tape still in the vaults or was it just an engineering project?

Pax,
Ed

By JSmith (212.39.231.20) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:31 am:

Back to the history of the Graystone. So when did Motown sell the place and what became of it (is the building still there ?), etc.

By David Meikle (213.122.184.45) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:56 am:

The building is demolished.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.133) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 09:03 am:

The recording was made with a NEUMANN SM-2 microphone, feeding an AMPEX 351-2 at 15 I.P.S. recording on 3M Scotch 111 tape.

The microphone placment was made on the basis that we had little time to experiment, and we had little in the way of microphone booms or other items to position the microphone.

The Ampex 351-2 was the original "Multitrack" that was the best that Motown had when I applied for my job in January, 1961.

At the time of the Choker Campbell recording at the Graystone, this machine was considered obsolete by the dicision makers at Motown (BG.) This was because the home brew three track (on 1/2 inch tape) recorder was by then the "standard of Motown."

I do not remember Ed Wolfrum being present at that recording session. It is possible that he was there.

I have here at my home, some excerpts from that session on acetate, and possibly even some original first generation tape clips. If anyone is interested, I could communicate about the possibility of making a CD.

I remember how horrified I was when I went back to the sight of the Graystone, and saw nothing but a vacant lot. I could write vast amounts about the history of the Graystone, and Motown, but it is too much work.

I am drunk, and this subject has excited my fancy.

I wish I had the energy to participate more. I am going to retire at the end of 2002. Perhaps, as I sit around the house with "nothing to do" (Except for listening to Schubert chamber music,) I will find more energy for the forum.

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By HW (68.37.217.106) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 09:26 am:

MIKE,

I would love to talk with you about Motown engineering. I handle the Motown reissues. Email me at your convenience at harryweinger@yahoo.com

Ed - which performance are you referring to at 7.5 ips?

The Four Tops jazz sessions were 3-track.

By David Meikle (213.122.46.152) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 10:48 am:

Mike

Nice to hear from you again.

I look forward to more from you on the forum.

best wishes
David

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:04 am:

Mike:
Thank you for your insightful input. I remember reading an great interview you gave to one of the trades regarding Motown's mixing and engineering practices - great stuff! Please come back & share more great memories with us.
Regards,
KevGo

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.60.250) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 02:57 am:

I was drunk when I made my last posting, as I am now. I forgot to complete the presentation. Here are additional insights.

START PASTE IN

"I was there, (although not working for Motown then,) when Mike did the recording of the Choker Campbell band, I think, with the SM2 and an Ampex 602-2, monitoring with Permaflux headphones. It sounded great on the headphones. I would love to of heard that back on a good monitor system however.

I remember Mike doing an earlier posting about that recording but I can't remember the details. The key to minimal mike recording is good monitoring and I question just how good those early Permaflux headphones were."

END PASTE IN

Thus spake Ed Wolfrum.

1. As I said in my above posting, the recorder was not an Ampex 602-2. It was an Ampex 351-2.

2. The recording speed was 15 IPS, not 7.5.

3. Only one recording session took place.

4. Berry Gordy Jr. was hot happy with the results. That was the end of that.

5. I thought that the resulting recording was absolutly sensational.

6. Permoflux headphones were absolutly not used for monitoring. I used the Beyer DT-48S which were the standard headset provided with a Nagra recorder for use in the motion picture industry for many years. While less then comfortable, because of the nature of the tight seal of the ear cushions (mandatory for recording in high noise situations) these were professional quality monitoring headphones in every sense of the word.

7. Due to limitations in booms, Etc. I had to place the SM-2 microphone about 7 feet above the floor. This allowed me to stand directly below it and compare the live sound to the microphone output by simply by placing the headphones on and off my head. I remember being thrilled by the close match.

8. The balance of the mix was heavy on the brass, which were in the front row, while the drums were in the rear and more distant, with more natural reverberation. The SM-2 used two KM-56 capsules and thus, had that characteristic nickel membrane bright high frequency characteristic that was wonderful on strings. Another such microphone was the Telefunken (Schoeps) M-221B. Overall, the sound was a bit thin, with brilliantly clear brass, and fantastic natural perspective and dynamics.

9. The observation about microphone placement by Ed Wolfrum about needing a high quality monitor is valid. However, the implication is totally misleading. In fact, in the case of this recording date, the monitor was totally up to the task. The reason that the microphone placement was poor (from the point of view of an BG, who was not trying to sell records to audiophiles) was because we didn't have time to attempt to optimise it, and we had no means to position the microphone at the elevation (perhaps 30 feet) that would have been proper for a decent musical balance.

In any case, there was no microphone position that would have been good enough for BG. Natural sound was not what Motown was about. We all know that, from listening to the records.

Mercury Recording Corp. issued many fine recordings (No pun intended. The recording engineer was C. Robert Fine) that offered that dream of "natural sound" quite successfully. Today some of these records are worth hundreds of dollars each on the collector market. This sort of thing was my inspiration.

To use an analogy: Berry hired a Rembrant fan. Berry wanted to go beyond Van Gogh into Picasso. I suffered as I tried to influance Motown in the direction of classic perspectives. I was a fool.

Not enough of a fool to get fired!

I can't help it if my father was 14 when the Wright Brothers flew the first airplane, and I picked up an outlook that is "out of date." I still have my convictions, and by golly, I will always stand up for them.

That one Choker Campbell session led to a total change in my outlook about monitor speakers. I loved the Bozak speakers that my father and I had built, driven by two 200 Watt McIntosh amplifiers (with huge, bright tubes glowing like projection lamps).

When I brought the Ampex 351-2 over to Dad's house and played the Choker Campbell tape on our beloved Bozak speakers, I was horrified. The sound coloration was so vast that even trying to list all the modes of cone breakup would be like taking a mouthful from a sewer pipe and trying to make a intelligent comment in the way a wine taster would. I was horrified.

As soon as I put on the Beyer headphones, I was back at the Graystone. I was stunned!

This incident was what led to the conversion from the early Bozak monitor era, to the middle AR monitor era.

Of course the actual eras are:

1. The Altec 605A era. Result: "Money," with Barret Strong. Robert Bateman was king.

2. The Bozak era. Result: "Devil With the Blue Dress" with Shorty Long.

3. The AR era. Result: "You Keep Me Hanging On" with The Supremes.

4. The Altec 604E era. Result "War! What is it Good for?" with Edwin Strong.

5. The Westlake/Hidly era. Result: Hell! I don't know. I had quit Motown.

The point is that Altex "Duplex" monitor speakers were in service when I arrived, and they were in service when I departed. So much for my contribution to monitoring excellance.

I still maintain that the sounds that come out of all those monitors sound very colored and unnatural. I like a nice pair of bipolar electrostatics. The trouble is, you can't get a decent recording to play on them. Most recordings are so unnatural that they make me want to puke!

That Choker Campbell session will bring you right back to the Graystone, played on a such a pair of electrostatics.

I am as different from the typical forum person as is a typical Arab from a Jew. I am the Arab, with my love of my exotic values like High Fidelity recording. The forum is like the Jew, with his/her practical desire to make progress, realisticly and honorably, and profit, by finding what works with the mass audience.

Thank goodness that I don't have any natural desire to hurt people!

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.247) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 05:43 am:

Regarding the ideas at the top of this thread:

I was there when Berry Gordy Jr. purchased the Graystone Ballroom.

I observed the entire development of all that happened.

It is my opinion that what happened was that it was a bargain, and Berry felt that it could become a good investment.

This was because he remembered fondly his youth, when the Graystone (originally constructed during the late 1920's) was supposed to be a hot place for white folks. It slid down (during the depression) to the point where it was worthless, and a bargain.

Berry remembered the good times when the blacks, who had taken over this property after WW2, had set up some kind of "black" happy place for folks to come and be happy in a wonderful, huge place designed for the likes of William Powell and Murna Loy in the "Thin Man" movies of the thirtys.

Times had changed. If automobile people had given a damn about their terf, they would have built decent cars, like Toyota. Instead, they all moved to the suberbs, and died. There is no way that we can hold them responsible for the way that they changed from inovative (1939 Oldsmoble/Cadillac) first automatic transmission: HYDRAMATIC!

Into the pig cars that they were building in the 60's and 70's.

The stock market is a brutal place. So is the taste of teenagers regarding musical styles.

Your pal,

Mike McLean
Old Fart

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 06:00 pm:

Mike:
Thank you for your perspective(s)...My late father would agree with you about the Hydramatic!
KevGo

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 06:36 pm:

Mike,
Thanks for all your insights! I don't know how anyone could ever make an analogy with speaker cone breakup & wine tasting sewer water. Excellent!

What would be an example of a Mercury "natural sound" recording? I'm very interested.

The Graystone sounds a bit like the Aragon Brawlroom er ah I mean Ballroom in Chicago...a big old ornate barn from the 1920's. How many people could it hold? Whenever I see a concert at the Aragon, I look at the stage & try to imagine what a traditional big band would sound like in the room.


-Steve

By mhc (172.162.146.75) on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 09:53 pm:

Hi Mike, Sir, You suggested above that you might make CD copies of the Choker Campbell/Graystone Ballroom session. I'd love to have one, if they ever become available. BTW, I have an SM2 and a 350-2; maybe I should go try and find a ballroom somewhere..

By Larry Rott (12.141.160.25) on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 11:30 pm:

Mr. McLean,
I'll trade you a rare Comedy record recorded at Half Pints in Detroit in '67 for your Choker Campbell.
Rott Brothers records. Title:
"War, You've Gotta Be Kidding". My Uncle still has a couple hundred under his desk.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.223) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 07:09 am:

Dear KevGo,

Thank you for your kind words. In case you are not aware of it, vast additional examples of my wit, wisdom, and woefulness are available through the Forum search function.

Actually, I am a lover of manual transmissions. I have a 1991 Toyota truck with the 4 cylinder SOHC engine and one sweet five speed floor shift! I am blessed also in this truck with a velvet smooth clutch, which I installed myself a few months back. Smooth as a BMW would like to be.

When this beauty gets to 200,000. miles, I am going to replace it with either a Toyota Avalon or a Toyota Tundra V8 truck. I will probably go for the former because I am sick of the high road noise of my otherwise gem of a truck. Another consideration is the superior traction on ice covered roads of a suspension which is independent, and optimised for passenger use instead of load carrying.

I guess I am ready for an automatic transmission.

What a horror! I remember that night that Uncle Jack took us out for a ride in Detroit in his brand new 1955 Oldsmoble Super 88. Now there was a car blessed in Heaven! I will never forget how cool it was. This was when GM had their glasses on! That Hydramatic was so cool, with it's four speed bumps, as it shifted. Everything about that car was perfect.

Little did I know that I would become the Engineering Department Head of Motown Record Corporation six years later.

My present truck has never had any mechanic touch it except me. It has never broken down on the road. Odometer now 136,500. miles. Runs like new, but I smelled something funny. I must have lost it.

Just tonight, I doused the drivers seat cushion with a load of that spray upolstry cleaner/DEODERIZER! I may be a "perfect technical man," but otherwise, I am just another street bum.

Cheers,

Mike McLean

P.S. It was not tonight, because I checked my pants. I wish I could think of someone to which I loaned the truck. I remember when Marv Johnson smashed up Berry Gordy Jr.'s Cadillac after he borrowed it. That was a trip!

Those guys were imaculate in their grooming, but could not drive out of the Bonnyville Salt Flats without hitting something.

I am a slob (except when I clean up for a date), but I could circle the parimeter of the North American Continent dead drunk without getting a ticket, or having a mechanical breakdown.

That is the difference between Berry Gordy Jr. and Marv Johnson; and Me: "Mr. Know It All!"

Why put on airs?

The best way to relate to the Forum is by being yourself.

Sincerely,

Little Mikie

P.P.S. Berry only drove himself for about two years after that incident. After that, he went for the chaufer driven lemo for all his automotive activities. He needed that big lemo for all his beefcake "bodyguards." One was Gay, and he took a shine to me. I felt sorry for him, so I tried to meet him half way.

It was really funny. I had this idea that it would be cool to paint the walls of my office in the basement of Motown flat black. This fellow was dressed in a beautiful business suit. He was about six foot four inches tall, and weighed about 240 pounds, all muscle. He was really after me.

I thought that he would appreciate a nice compromise. I offered to French kiss him in my office. My motive was to relieve him, and get rid of him. I like hamburger, not hot dogs. I started "making out" with him, and he pulled out his his huge black member and started masterbating. Next thing I knew, those "cool" flat black walls were covered with spatter marks.

Murphy's law: If anything can go wrong, it will.

I figured I had paid my dues, and asked him to leave. Next thing I know, this monster is hugging and kissing me with a sincere passion that would put any lover to shame. I felt panic. I started fighting him off. I did not want any further contact after this experiment. We got into this incredable wresling match as we worked our way out of my office. We were rolling around on the floor. It was horrible.

Why was it horrible? Because I was horrified that he would abuse his beautiful cloths in this manner. This just goes to show how cheap I am: As I am being "semi-raped" I worry about the damage to expensive goods.

At any rate, I got rid of him after a few days of avoiding him. I didn't want to rat him out to Berry, because I had (on an experimental basis) gone along with his advances.

It all worked out all right. I had a wonderful time bragging about those spatters on the wall to all my employees, and that well dressed beefcake got the message after a couple of days.

If only the adjustment to the fact that Motown had no respect for natural "high fidelity" sound recording had not felt so much more like a rape, at the time.

Emotional scars. They take a lifetime to resolve.

Love to all you good folks on the Forum.

Mike McLean

P.P.P.S. I have been writing all this as I listen to this fantastic acetate LP that I discovered tonight. It turns out that I made an acetate of the whole session in stereo. Original NEUMANN SM-2 output with no sweetening whatever. Even off an acetate, it comes accross in a simply fantastic way. Ultra high fidelity.

I must give credit to Choker Campbell and his wonderful band, including the wonderful trumpet player Marcus Belgrave, for setting the mood that has resulted in my spilling my emotions out onto the Forum.

David, I love you buddy, but if you find this offensive, all I can say is "Get a life."

Russ, When are you going to invite me up to see you? I am just a day away, thanks to my well maintained truck. I want to come up and talk about Vladimir Ashkenazy. And have lunch! What's wrong with that?

Just because I am screwball, it does not mean that I am not a great guy!

Or are you letting the Silver Spring sniper turn you into a lifeless, depressed, kerplop!?

Watch yourself: don't do what Martha Stewart did.

I love you all.

Mike McLean

Drunk as usual,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.40.223) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 07:30 am:

On a dry, technical basis, this acetate is the answer to a maiden's prayer, for a Graystone history fan.

It turns out that my memory of that wonderful one time only session has been overwhelmingly enhanced by this acetate that I found tonight.

My dear friend Ed Wolfrum wrote of his memories of this occasion. I have the actual stuff. I am listening to it right now. It is a whole two sided LP. I had forgotten. It is sensational!

No wonder that I harbored resentment toward Berry Gordy Jr. This is a fantastic recording. It is cutting edge today. I am going to make a CD of it right away, and send it to Ed Wolfrum so that he can realize how much I love and respect him.

I love single stereo microphone recording technique. When I am retired, I am going to start a thread on the Forum devoted to pure recording technique. Something must be done to rid the land of the plague of "sweetening" after "sweetening" after "sweetening" resulting in a pile of auditory bowel movements.

Gosh, as I listen, I have more self respect.

Little Mikie

By mhc (172.133.96.217) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 09:34 am:

Another great speechlessness-inducing post! Cheers Mike..

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 09:42 am:

Well Mikie, I see your back ( and then some )

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:26 am:

Hoooboy! With Mike's recollections, who needs the Firesign Theatre!
KevGo

By Lynn Bruce (64.53.143.164) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:32 am:

Mike,your slant on life and the quality of things in the past(or lack of it in some cases)is the greatest! I'm tempted to send you a case of Guinness stout to keep the words flowing!!
I just E-mailed the sound engineer for the Scottish group" The Battlefield Band", to check out some of the very interesting things you have to say. I,m sure he,s going to be as interested in what you have to say as I am and everyone else on this forum.
SLAINTE VA
Lynn Bruce
P.S.God Bless Guinness stout(nectar of the Gods)

By Larry (12.141.160.25) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 11:41 am:

Aint that the truth MHC.

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 08:44 pm:

First of all Mike, thank you for correcting me about the recorder and the headphones. I could swear the recorder was brown not chrome!!! But I am getting old too Mike, and that was almost 40 years ago. (I'm an old FART too.)

Now regarding the recording...My memory served me well there. I remember how wonderful the recording was and how natural it sounded on the phones. (This was the first time I was ever impressed by headphone listening.) Although, by todays standards, headphone technology then was quite primative.

Sadly Mike, I have been fighting the same battle regarding natural sounding recording for almost as long as you have. I hoped that the digital era would bring some sense to over use of EQ and processing, as it was not needed to correct for the recording processes...No Luck there, it just got worse. Today, with over 90 dB of dynamic range on commercial (POP and R&B ect.) CDs, many in the industry insist on massive dynamics processing with perhaps 10 to 15 dB of dynamic range left AT BEST!!! It is a lost battle Mike, although you are 100% right, and even on todays BOOM BOXES wide dynamic range CDs sound better, the industry wants it LOUD. Sounds like old times, EH?

I should point out to the Forum, that Mike, despite his self-demeening comments, was 100% correct about the Studio Monitor problems then. Motown, United, Terra-Shirma, Special Recordings you name it we were always looking for more accurate monitoring. Your AR solution with the Bozak mid-range and EV T-35 tweets was an elegant, although, unconventional solution. It worked well. Mike, most of the big Motown hits were done on the AR systems not the Bozaks or Altec Duplexes. Even today, based on comments from Harry, Bob Olsson, Russ and others mastering that product, it needs very little work. And those ARs, as you may remember, were "almost near field" in the control room. So that was close to the answer. Today that has become the monitor position of choice. I think you were a bit ahead of your time. I was doing stereo mixes at United with a pair of AR4's in the near field at low levels sitting on the top of the United Console in the late 60's and early 70's trying to emulate that result. It worked reasonably well.

Regarding Altec 604s and their offshoots...I never liked them then nor now. We had them as Mains at GW and United and I mixed on the ARs then. They were certainly durable though. Because with people like Bernie (bleeding ear) Mendelson and others like him at Motown, GW and Terra-Shirma, they had to be.

So don't be too hard on yourself regarding monitoring there Mike. Based on results you had hit the nail pretty close to the head.

Pax,

Ed

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.85) on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 08:50 pm:

Gotta take a chick out in 45 minutes.

Thanks to you all.

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 09:54 pm:

We'll want a full report Mikie.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.40) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 07:13 am:

Ed,

It is possible that I had made a dub of the master at 7.5 IPS, and played it in my (black walled but not yet spattered) office for you. This feels right in the fog of my memory.

I was very proud of the recording. Four things I know for sure:

1. There was only one session.

2. The recorder was an Ampex 351-2.

3. The SM-2 output was fed directly into the Ampex electronic assemblies. The "meter and output switch" was in the "Mic." position.

4. Beyer DT48S headphones were used to monitor the session. I specifically remember being concerned about the impedance of the phones in relation to the output capabilities of the Ampex 351 electronics. I had to listen on the "play" position of the "meter and output switch" and jack up the "playback level" control to obtain the required volume level. These must have been 600 Ohm Beyers, because it was possible to obtain sufficent volume without distortion problems. Beyer made them in two impedances. 50 Ohms was "standard" as I remember, and I am quite sure that they offered a 600 Ohm option. I acquired these impressions in 1973, when I worked as Lab. Chief at Gotham Audio Corp. in New York City.

Listening to the acetate reminded me of the panic that I pumped into trying to arrange the musicians to achive the best "acoustic mix."

I deeply believe that if you get the sound right at a particular point in space (an optimum microphone position,) and then use an idealistic microphone to pick up that sound perspective, the result will possess a stunning sense of reality, when listened to by someone who values high quality sound reproduction.

It is halloween. A good analogy is the difference between walking in a graveyard at 2:00 AM and, on the one hand, having a hand pop up out of the humid earth and grab you by the ankle (pop microphone technique), and gradually over several minutes becoming aware that something that you have never seen before, that you can't believe could be real, is gradually emerging, in the dim moonlight and the fog, little by little, and you have a choice of turning and running in panic, or standing your ground and waiting until it stands before you face to face (natural single-microphone recording technique.)

At any rate, this Choker Campbell acetate is the answer to a maidens prayer for those interested in Choker, or the Graystone.

Ed, I want to do a good transfer to send to you. I have all the pop remover technology needed. I am deliberating on the matter of cleaning the acetate. It is priceless. I have been using the "Disk Doctor" process on black vinyl with supberb results. However, I am concerned about the possibility that acetate could be adversly affected by water absorbtion.

I have a friend at work that cleaned a vast number of acetates using "Simple Green" and tap water with fantastic results. These were old 16 inch transcriptions (2000 hours worth) that he discovered in the basement of a studio that he worked at in the late 60's, of old radio shows like Amos and Andy, Etc.

He cleaned them up and transfered them over to seven inch reels of 3.75 IPS tape, half track.

This is not the best assurance in the world that my priceless acetate will not be damaged by a water based cleaning technique.

I am worrying about it. Oh hell! Why not just transfer it as is? There might be a little more surface noise, but at least we would have a record now, of the thing, as it is! I could put off worrying about it until a future date.

I'm going to put that acetate on again, right now!

It's a beauty with lots of modulation, full stereo, and full variable pitch and depth recording technique. Thank God that I made it!

I am using the Sonigistix MM-1000 "Monsoon" plainer magnetic speaker system to listen. For information see:

www.monsoonpower.com

The sound is utterly fantastic. Everything is so utterly natural and credable. Absolutly no modification of the original microphone output other then the mushy magnetic tape soft high frequency overload.

One pick up point. Locked in believable perspective. Instrumental tambres that are all equally effected by the transduction process, instead of all individually messed with. Dynamics that are stunning and thrilling. Reverberation that is natural. The ability to form, in your imagination, a credable "sound picture."

Ed, your posting shows that you know what I am talking about. Of course you know. The fine work that you have accomplished proves beyond any doubt that you understand what I am attempting to discuss.

My very best to a fine fellow,

Mike

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.40) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 08:09 am:

To all that have spoken with such kindness:

This Graystone business hit a big nerve. I now realize that I have been living with emotional scars that have profoundly affected my life, and my relationship with the forum.

The forum is the reality of those who value the reality of Motown.

I have the deep feelings of someone who worked, with passion, to try to integrate my love of music, Hi-Fi technology, and electronics into the reality of Motown.

I once had the oppertunity, under favorable circumstances, to ask Mrs. Edwards, in a most serious and sincere manner, what was the secret of Berry Gordy Jr.'s profound success.

She carefully considered her reply, and said "Berry always had a deep faith in the power of young people, and their outlook."

I have the feeling that Berry rose to the top of the heap in his family early, when he was a boy. His father maintained a tight control about any improper behavior, but both his parents (See the book available from the Motown museum written by Pop Gordy.) encouraged hard work and interest in wholesome possibilities. Berry was the one who had that natural spark of confidence, and the talent, to take on the vast challanges that he chose, and succeed in making his dreams a success.

I watched it happen right before my eyes.

Berry Gordy Jr. is a multi-millionare. I am a drunk. I worry about my guilt for spending his money on things like the Neumann SM-2 microphone.

It makes fantastic recordings.

But not the kind that make made Motown rich, at that time.

Sometime around 1937, "down in the ghetto" Berry and his family grew up in the "Our family is just as good as anyone, but we will only be appreciated by what we achieve through good hard work" atmosphere that Berry Gordy Sr. created, with his wife Bertha (a school teacher.) The couple was a product of the South. I reccomend that anyone interested purchase the book written by Pop Gordy. I can not imagine that it is not still available from the Motown Museum.

Berry was very smart, very talented, and above all, obsessed with taking over, in the family, the position of absolute leader that his father had stood up for from the beginning of time.

The combination of focus, intensity, brilliance, talent (here was a man who was so utterly charming that he could have made millions simply by being a salesman)and a deep faith in the old fashioned standards of morality that were the basis of the black church in the old south, added up to a fantastic "happening."

Not to mention the availability of all that talent playing at black clubs in Detroit.

I was just another piece of talent. I was the first person (white or black) that seemed, to Berry, that he could "fix the machines."

He had faith in my talent, and drove me, as had his father driven him, with simple questions like:
"What's that buzz."

A simple question like that defined fear for me at the beginning, and sent me on a long journey to try to aquire an education that would allow me to survive at Motown.

That was how it was for us all. Berry encouraged us to do our best, and gave us freedom to find it in our own way. This combination was wonderful at the time. I started at $50. per week. This was big money for me, at the time. Today, this would be about $550. per week. Not much for a Technical Engineering Department Head.

But with Berry's encouragment, and willingness to foot the bill for me to attend engineering conventions, I was in hog heaven. The rest is history.

It will take me time to get back to you all, but this time, I swear, I will respond to each and all who have made such kind remarks.

Sincerely,

Mikie

P.S. I have not forgotten all the old who have been waiting in the que. I just don't have the time to answer things that I am not in the mood for. However, this should change when I have more time on my hands, after my retirement, after 2002 is over.

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.40) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 08:33 am:

Ralph,

I had given up on the lady, as a lover candidate, but I had hope that I could pick up $500. per month by making her a boarder. I could use that extra money for toys.

The trouble with her was that she has this daushhound dog that is absolutly adorable, and she told me from day one that she would go along with almost anything, as long as the hound was part of the process.

She had been very depressed, because she had been living with her stepfather, and had nersed him to the bitter end, including grumpy abuse as she gave him sponge baths while he bitched unmercyfully if his morning eggs were the least bit overdone.

She is an former police woman. (Just what I need!)

At any rate, things came to a head. I had decided that I had given up on her as a lover. She is too serious and "square."

Since I was not trying to get in her pants anymore, I figured if I showed up in my ususal no shower for a week, drunk, mode, everything would be all right, as long as I was trying to get her as a boarder.

The big issue about that was her hound. I am allergic to the dander of such animals. Still, if there was even a ghost of a chance, I wanted to try for it. I waltzed in to pick her up for dinner. I at once started picking up and loving up the hound. I wanted to see if I actually did have a problem with this particular hounds dander. After all, $500. per month would be a fantastic bargain for her, and pure gravy for me.

After loving up the hound, during the World's Series Game (#6), I suggested that we should get on to the restaurant. She said "I think not."

I said "Since you are standing me up, I will not be calling you any more." She said, "You have been drinking. I don't drink. My Husband was a drunk!" I said, "Whatever you say." and walked out.

If she had a shread of common decency, she would have offered to drive me to the restaurant. I had spent close to $100. showing her kindness. I saw right then and there that she was, (as Don Bexley once said at the Driftwood Lounge at the 20 Grand) not a school teacher because she had "no class and dam'n little principals!"

All day, the next day, I was in agony with my eyes burning and itching: my usual allergic reaction to animal dander. I have little doubt that if I had gotten near her private dander, it would have caused my head to burst into flames. Good riddance!

So there you are with the "full report" Ralph.

How how about that invitation?

Mike

By Ed Wolfrum (165.121.215.151) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 09:47 am:

Mike,

Best you leave that relationship alone. I love dogs, and don't have any alergy problems. (Other than shell fish.) But RUN, don't walk away from problems like that. Living in your own home would be agony.

Regarding the recording processes. My preference as you know is for fine, unprocessed real audio. Commercially, both because of the market and the music, that is unacceptable. Today the whole process is nothing but airbrushed audio. Pure smoke and mirrors!!! The problems becomes that when the performance is presented live, it simply falls apart, because there is no synergy with musicians or the audience. (It's pretty hard to relate synergistically to samples!!)

Oh, if people could only experience what is captured in a fine performance of great music, well captured in real acoustic space.

Ed

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 01:44 pm:

Mike:
As a former student of audio engineering and recording I've always admired and respected the way Motown recordings were created. I feel that you should use your knowledge, talent, and God-given passion to pass it on to a new generation of producers and music makers. What Ed has said is true - these kids who are "making music" are doing so the lazy-assed way (there should be some moratorium on sample clearances but that's for another forum)and heaven help them and the artist when it falls apart in a live gig. There must be an audio engineering program at University of Michigan (where my niece attends) or I could recommend you to my alma mater's audio engineering department (Ithaca College). If not, I would be more than happy to have you as a mentor for I'm planning on starting an independent label and could use the input from the Man Who Was There..
Best regards,
KevGo

By mhc (172.131.166.80) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 01:58 pm:

Mike, I think you should remind yourself, at least once in awhile, that during your time at Motown, you made an indispensible contribution to one of the most monumental and positive forces in American Popular Music, ever. Maybe you didn't meet some of your personal ideals in influencing the sonic direction of the Motown Sound, but you BUILT THE GODDAMNED STUDIO including the tape machines! There's no way the you were merely the guy who "could fix the machines". You're obviously a brilliant person, and from what I've read and can understand, your contribution to Motown was invaluable. You, like the Funk Brothers used to be, are one of the unsung heroes of the whole story, and It's one of the greatest of all American stories.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 02:04 pm:

MHC:
Amen!!!Amen!!!
KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 02:09 pm:

Mike:
If I may add onto what MHC is saying (besides my Amens!), Mr. Gordy himself gave you props on high in his autobiography, especially when he wrote that even he had to attend one of your training sessions on how to run the studio (to which Gordy referred to as "...(Mike McLean's) machines.."
'Nuff Said..
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 02:10 pm:

Are you reading the above messages Mikie??
These guys know what they're talking about.

By Larry (216.23.183.2) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 04:13 pm:

Amen is right to what MHC said. Man MHC, you gotta way with words.

Mike,

2 months ago I didn't know the Funks from Adam.
Thank G-d to SD and the folks here, I got my mind strait!

And now I know the guy who ran and built and customized and modified and re-invented the Machines that captured all the music.

You Sir, are a walking dictionary of the medium and if you're hurtin' for money, I'd say find a Publisher and get your book out.

You, Ed and Bob have this musician's respect as much as the Funks. I aint strokin' nobody, just saying what I feel from the Heart.

Only drag for me Mike....
If you're ever in LA and wanted to come over, you couldn't! I own a Dachsund...

With deeeeep respect for all the 'Cogs in the Wheel' we call Motown,

Larry

By M.McLeanTech (66.218.59.119) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 05:13 pm:

I gotta go to work so I have to make this short.

Thanks for everything. I will try to get back to you after work. You all.

Larry,

I live in Burbank, CA. Wanna do lunch? We could go to Tommy's Hamburgers and I could have a hot dog, if that would not offend you because of your lovable pup!

More later,

Mike McLean

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 05:25 pm:

Mike:
Get an outline together, pull that interview you did for Audio or Mix magazines on how the Motown Sound was created, line up all your colleagues, friends and every Motowner you've worked with from Raynoma Singleton to BG himself and submit everything to a publisher. Believe me, YOUR BOOK ON HOW THE MOTOWN SOUND WAS CREATED WILL SELL!!! This will be the equivalent to getting the combination to the locks at Fort Knox. There are enough people on this site alone from Sue to HW to Ralph Terrana to Dennis Coffey (and yours truly)who can (AND WILL) rally on your behalf.
Your friend always,
KevGo

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 05:29 pm:

TIME TO GO TO A NEW THREAD GANG. THIS IS TOO LONG. IT SEEMS TO HAVE BECOME A MIKE MCLEAN THRAD SO LETS ALL OVE TO THE NEW THREAD ENTITLED MIKE MCLEAN.....THIS ONE IS NOW CLOSED88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888