By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:48 pm:

I WAS JUST TALKING WITH FELLOW BASSIST TONY BLANCHARD. WE WERE SPECULATING AS TO WHO WOULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB. DENNIS EDWARDS SINGING THE OLD TEMPTS SONGS IN PLACE OF DAVID RUFFIN, OR HOW WOULD DAVID HAVE FAIRED ON THE NORMAN WHITFIELD INSPIRED "CLOUD NINE", "PSYCHADELIC SHACK", ETC STUFF. WAS DAVID TOO ROMANTIC AND STYLISTIC A SINGER TO PULL OFF THE SOCIAL COMMENTARY STUFF, AND WAS DENNIS TO HARSH TO SING THE EARLIER MATERIAL? DID DENNIS REPLACING DAVID AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME GIVE THE GROUP A SHOT IN THE ARM, EXTENDING THEIR CHAIN OF HITS, OR COULD HAVE DAVID PULLED IT OFF? YOUR THOUGHTS!

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.11) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:43 am:

Stu,although I dig Dennis,Old habits die hard for me,I really like the tracks David Ruffin was on and rate him as one of my fave Tempts of all time.(but I am certainly not taking anything away from past and present vocalists since David).MEL.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 02:11 am:

For me the Temps were the gratest vocal group of all time. Wonderful harmonies and enough class for several members to sing lead. Paul Williams, Eddie. David, and then Dennis, Richard Street, and on. Though i have limited knowledge of the Temps after 1970, I think if David had'nt left he would have done a good job with the psycadelic stuff and it would have sounded much the same. If Dennis was in earlier i think the ballads would have been different. Would "My Girl" sound as good today as it did then if David had not sung it? I guess we'll never know

By biggray (62.254.0.7) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 06:06 am:

Hey Guy,s which member of the temps is singing Night&Day on the film soundtrack called ( What Women Want) staring Mel Gibson & Helen Hunt! good film but man what a great Temps Track. Anyone got any info on this one. Biggray.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 09:21 am:

Stu,

I think David could have handled Norman's more
psychedelic material at least as well as Dennis
- but personally I'm glad that didn't arise as
I prefer David on more down to earth material.

For a hint at what David might have sounded like
on those Dennis- led tracks listen to the
incredible "Blood Donors Needed" from the Bobby
Miller produced "David Ruffin" album - that's the
nearest I can think of David doing "socially
conscious" material - he just tears it into the song with all of his old power. Great great track
which I'd not heard until I got it on a budget
US David Ruffin cd - I now want to hear the whole of that Bobby Miller- produced album

There's also the Whitfield produced "Me and Rock
and Roll Are Here To Stay" album.

It really bugs me that so much of David's work
is unavailable on CD - every note that Otis Redding sang seems to be on CD but for my money
David was a much better singer.

Dennis could handle the more romantic material
well - listen to his work with the Contours

By Common (209.2.55.113) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:43 am:

Hello everyone,

Well, I tend to agree with your assessment about David being a great singer. I, too, am mystified as why none of David's solo Motown LPs are not available on CD. Someone was kind enough to give me most of his solo material on tape. The rest of his material I obtained through either ebay or hunting at old record shops. I am still looking for his pre-Tempt recordings. Is there anyway we could ask Harry Weinger why none of David's solo material, except for compliations, are not readily available?

As for how David may have faired had he stayed as a Tempt during the psychedelic years, I kinda have mixed feelings about that. To be honest, it would be kinda hard to see David singing about "Psychadelic Shack! That's were it's at!..." but then again, I might be wrong. He just strikes me as a romantic at heart.....anything but a flower child! LOL!

Davie:

I thought David's work with Norman was pretty good. Again, why Motown didn't promote it....only BG knows.

By Common (209.2.55.113) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:44 am:

Hello Biggray:

The vocalist in question is Theo Peoples. He reminds me a little of Paul Williams.

By biggray (62.254.0.7) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:28 pm:

Thanks Common. Regards Biggray

By Julian (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

I think the psychedelic stuffs' coolness would have been tremendously magnified had David been on them.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

DAVIE, SOULIE DAVE, MEL & ALL; APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS. AS GREAT AS DAVID WAS ON THE EARLIER TRACKS, I'M STILL NOT CERTAIN THAT HE WOULD HAVE COVERED THE LATER MATERIAL IN AS BELIEVABLE A MANNER AS DENNIS. I WILL TRY TO CHECK OUT THE "BLOOD DONORS NEEDED" CUT AS DAVIE MENTIONED. PLUS, AT THAT TIME, I BELIEVE THERE WAS QUITE A BIT OF ANIMOSITY BETWEEN DAVID AND THE OTHER TEMPTS, AND THE HISTORICAL COHESION MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.18) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:44 pm:

Hey Stu,apart from what weve mentioned,one of my favourite Northern/Rare Soul tracks that I got to hear over 10 years ago and even today one that I personally rate very,very highly is the superb Johnny on The Spot by Dennis Edwards.Have you heard it?If so,what do you think of it,and if not,then brother dig it out.MEL.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:51 pm:

MEL; HAVEN'T HEARD IT...SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN. STU

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 02:05 pm:

I don't think Dennis Edwards gets enough credit for his ability to sing ballads, but as for comparing/prefering/speculating on Ruffin vs. Edwards, my philosophy is that I might prefer a Lincoln over a Cadillac, but I'd be happy to ride in either.

The greatness of one in no way diminishes the greatness of the other, especially more than 30 years after "the switch" with their places in history secure.

Regards,

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 03:12 pm:

Agreed, Ken.

I would have loved to see both incorporated in an all-star Tempts, with Eddie as well of course, if only it could have been worked out personality-wise.

By john c (12.2.233.107) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 03:39 pm:

To me, the timing of the "switch" was perfect. Each was right for the material. I think Ain't Too Proud To Beg gives an indication of what David might have sounded like. IMHO, it's also the one song I think Dennis might have done better (again IMHO). Also, after Dennis came on, it seems there were more multiple lead songs as well as more complex vocal arrangements which allowed everyone to shine a bit more. Was this a coincidence or because David was gone? I'm not familiar with the LP cuts so I might be off base.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 03:56 pm:

DAVID; SHORTLY UPON DAVIDS DEPARTURE FROM THE GROUP, I ASKED PAUL WHAT HAPPENED TO DAVID, AND HIS REPLY WAS...DAVID'S ON "CLOUD NINE"...I SWEAR... WAS THAT TUNE INTENDED TO BE A FARWELL TO DAVID...OR PERHAPS..."GOOD RIDDANCE"...STU

By Common (209.2.55.113) on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 05:13 pm:

Hello Stu,

It was said that David actually sang on "Cloud Nine" but I guess his vocals were erased(??) from the track. Maybe Paul meant that David's head had gotten a tad bit too big. But hey, he wasn't the only one had Motown with an ego problem. La Ross ring a bell? He he he he! :o)

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:43 am:

hi subass, i have "Johnny on the Spot" on a tape from a friend, and it's a great track. Do you know if it ever had a release. Was it Dennis Solo or the Contours? and if so, what label was it on? thanks. soulie dave.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:47 am:

Sorry Subass, above should be to Mel.

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:11 am:

To Mel, Stubass, and All. "Jonny on the Spot" can be heard at. http:/the.soulclub.org in streaming real audio. as well as many many other great tracks. check it out. dave

By Mark Speck (65.56.221.19) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:13 am:

"Johnny On the Spot" did get a legitimate release on the International Soulville label, with "I Didn't Have To (But I Did)". Timewise, I'm not sure if this was before Dennis joined the Contours, after the Contours but before the Temptations--and I'm not sure if the Contours had any involvement with this record.

All I know is that it's a big-money Northern rarity. I had a boot on it a while ago, but traded it back to the guy I got it from.

Best,

Mark

By soulie dave uk (62.254.64.5) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:56 am:

Thanks for that Mark.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:44 am:

FYI, both Dennis' Johnny on the Spot, and I Didn't Have To (But I Did) are available on CD, in Goldmine's "For Millionaires Only" series Vol 2: GSCD101 and Vol 3: 110.

- And no - I don't get commission from Kev Roberts for passing on this info! ;o)

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:54 am:

"Johnny On The Spot" is from early '66 - prior
to Dennis joining the Contours

By Common (209.2.55.113) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:21 am:

Just want to add:

When he comes to David, I guess I get carried away & lose all sense of purpose! LOL! By no means, was I attempting to diminish Dennis' contributions to the Tempts, which IMO, has been underappreciated. We tend to forget that it's partly because of Dennis, that Motown got its first two Grammys & kept the Tempts alive during the late sixties, early seventies. I agree that Dennis just doesn't get enough props.

I saw him last year with his Review, & he brought down the house! Dennis still has what it takes & it's amazing that he doesn't even have a record contract! Dennis truly keeps the Tempts tradition alive.

Peace!

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.18) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:37 pm:

Soulie dave,The only copy I saw(legitemate)was the original Acetate that it came out on.A lot of the people I know all seem to prefer the (I Didnt have to)But I did,which is also a great side,but when my late buddy Pete Lawson and myself borrowed a Copy of Johnny on the Spot we stayed up at my flat and played this and also Candle/also the superb what you gonna do by Doni Burdick,the outrageously superb My Angel Baby by Sheppard Boy and slowed the tempo down a little as dawn was breaking with A three Dollar Bill by Beverly Ann Gibson solid from about mid-night to at least 7am.The ale house over the road at the time,full of drunken Bizzies(police)had a good blast as I opened the doors for them to hurl abuse over at me,but as it was around 4am and all the plod were all drunk and merrily driving off in there cars,couldnt do a thing,or a call to the local nick would have had them all,bang to rights.(good days indeed).MEL.so for me,even now at an all-nighter/soul venue if Johnny on the spot blasts out,take cover,as a very large loon hits the floor.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.72) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:57 pm:

Many years ago,around when I first started collecting,I was turned on to the Tempts in a big,big way.And as they had David Ruffin with them at that time,I am now I Suppose biased to that group of members.Anyway go forward to 1985 or thereabouts and I went to see the Tempts Live in Warrington.And myself and a couple of good mates were a little harsh when we knew Ruffin and Kendricks were no longer a member.And Dennis Edwards and another who at this moment slips my memorie,were to appear.Anyway,now this was not a Rare/Northern soul gig so the audience was a selection of people from right across the board,but all devout Tempts fanatics.So we didnt know what the crowd reaction would be like.But to this day,(apart from various live acts on the all-nighter scene)this venue was rocking after about 10 mins and certainly rivalled/bettered a few nighters for total enthusiasm and crowd involvement.Superb to say the least,and to be honest,we didnt even notice that Kendricks/Ruffin were not out there.As is always the case with the Temptations,no matter which line up,the group always capture the right feel,tone,mood,whatever you call it but they never ever seem to sound bad.(to me anyway)And Dennis Edwards(as all)Just blew everyone awy that night in question.MEL.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:29 pm:

I would hate to speculate. David and Dennis were both seriously great entertainers who made our world better than it might otherwise have been. Remember that the songwriters were inspired by the singers and the funk brothers so I don't think you can legitimately break it down to the components that made up what the Temptations (or for that matter Motown) were.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:48 pm:

GREETINGS ALL; TO CHIME BACK IN...WHILE THE L.A. LAKERS WITH SHAQ AND KOBE ARE ONE OF THE GREATEST TEAMS IN N.B.A. HISTORY...GIVE ME MAGIC AND KAREEM ANYTIME. SAME WAY I FEEL ABOUT THE TEMPTATIONS. YOU CANT TOP THE ORIGINAL. DAVID STILL GETS MY VOTE, WITH DENNIS NOT AT ALL FAR BEHIND.

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.78) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:00 pm:

Stu,I second that regards David Ruffin etc.MEL(a totally biased D.Ruffin fan).

By Common (209.2.55.113) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:25 pm:

And I, third that emotion about DR! :o)

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:28 pm:

Hey Gang:
I would have to also admit that David Ruffin gets my vote even though I discovered the Tempts during the Dennis Edwards period (via my big brother's well-worn but still sounding ballsy "Ball Of Confusion" 45). My convertion to Ruffin occurred when I first heard at the age of ten "Since I Lost My Baby" on the Tempts' Greatest Hits LP I found in - of all things - a stack of items my neighbor left for the garbage men! (Obviously my neighbor had "a hole in their soul" to paraphrase Clifford Curry). Since then, Ruffin, Kendricks and Paul W. will always be the "go-to" men in the Tempts.
Peace,
KevGo

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:45 pm:

I happen to think David Ruffin is the greatest voice in soul music, period. That's saying something when you consider Marvin, Smokey, Dennis, Richard, Freddie G., Levi, and the rest, and those are just the Motowners, not to mention Marvin Junior, Freddie Scott and the other greats.
But Dennis Edwards is a firebrand kind of singer that I can certainly dig. I'm not a big fan of the whole psychedelic sound of the Tempts, so when I'm opining about Dennis' voice, I'm usually thinking of his performances in a song like "Baby Hit and Run," or "It's Summer" or "A Song For You" or some other 'straight ahead' kind of soul song.

I've never really heard Dennis being supersmooth, so I couldn't see him singing a song like "My Baby" or "Say You" or "You'll Lose A Precious Love," but I can definitely see him taking a convincing crack at "I'm Losing You" or "Ain't Too Proud To Beg."

But the Temptations' leads really constitute an embarrassment of riches. No group should legally have the privilege of having Dennis, Paul, Eddie, David, Richard, etc. as leads.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:24 pm:

WELL SAID NISH... HEY KEVGO; HOPE YOU ENJOYED MY PICS. WE CANT COUNT MELS VOTE, BECAUSE HE ADMITS HE'S BIASED. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE DAVID RUFFIN GETS THE 2ND TENOR LEAD OF A LIFETIME AWARD, ALTHOUGH DENNIS GIVES HIM A GOOD RUN FOR THE MONEY! ALL AGREE? HAVE WE MISSED SOMETHING???

By john c (12.81.192.89) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 02:44 am:

"I ... Can turn the gray sky Bluuueeeah". I like Dennis.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 10:42 am:

Stu:
Photos were great. Please post more.
KevGo

By MEL&THENSOME (195.219.7.24) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 12:51 pm:

I second that emotion Stu,regards what KevGo mentions above.MEL.

By DennisFAn (66.20.156.180) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 02:32 pm:

Sorry But Dennis is better than David..don't believe me check out the Temptations albums:
A song for you
Wings of Love
Temptations Do The Temptations
Power
The Temptations
Reunion
Surface Thrills
Back To Basics
Together Again
Plus Dennis' three RELEASED solo LPs

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 02:49 pm:

APPARENTLY ALL PRECINCTS HAD NOT REPORTED BEFORE A WINNER WAS DECLARED. LOOKS A LITTLE LIKE OUR LAST U.S. PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES WERE BOTH AS QUALIFIED AS OUR TEMPTATION LEAD SINGERS ARE. MAYBE WE SHOULD LET "THE SUPREMES"...GET IT...MAKE THE FINAL DECISION. MEL AND KEVGO; I'LL HAVE TO DO SOME INVESTIGATION FOR MORE STUFF, OR MAYBE MY BRO MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING, ALTHOUGH NEITHER ONE OF US WERE COLLECTORS OF MUCH MORE THAN MEMORIES...STU

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.76) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:01 pm:

Hey Stu,David is the Man.(with no disrespect to Mr.Edwards).I am personally a 60s uptempo collector,but have Big Masybelle,Esther Phillips,Bessie Smith and Howling Wolf(apart from others)all in my collection,so when I heard a 1980s track that totally blew me away,and being very taken by this 80s side,on thorough perusel,low and behold,I thought I knew the voices,and it was none other than Mr.David Ruffin and his old mate,Mr.Eddie Kendricks.A 60S FEEL TO A 80s side.The Cream always rises to the top.MEL.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:07 pm:

Stubass:
Thanks. If you or your bro don't have more pictures your memoirs are more the fine.

DennisFan:
Every one has their own opinion regarding David and Dennis. I've heard several (if not all) the Tempts work both solo and group. To even compare the two is like apples and oranges. Yet, forget the number of albums one makes. It boils down to singing style and what people prefer. I feel that as far as style and range David had an advantage over Dennis. Dennis is a great "fire and earth" singer of the Wilson Pickett tradition but David can handle both ballads and fiery stuff with more finesse. Then again, this is only my opinion.
Regards,
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.114) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:39 pm:

KevGo,

In total agreement with you there. I couldn't have said it better myself! :o)

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:50 pm:

Thanks, Common.
KevGo

By TD (64.157.187.110) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 05:10 pm:

Hey guys I have the David Ruffin album-way back from the 70's. It is a tremendous album and features great songs especially Roving Kind, Mortal Man and Common Man.
Booby Miller does a great job producing this materpiece.
I highly reccommend that you get this any way that you can.
PS

David by a mile

Next to Levi Stubbs, he has the greatest voice of all

TD

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 06:56 pm:

NOT TO GET OFF THE SUBJECT, BUT LEVI IS ONE OF A KIND. "LEVI STUBBS AND THE FOUR TOPS" WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE AND FITTING THAN THE "DAVID RUFFIN AND THE TEMPTATIONS" FIASCO THAT DAVID ALLEGEDLY TRIED TO PULL OFF DURING HIS HEYDAY WITH THE TEMPTATIONS. IRONICALLY, A CO-WORKER WITH ME IN THE L.A. AREA WHO ALSO HAPPENS TO BE FROM DETROIT LOVES TO TALK WITH ME ABOUT THE MOTOR CITY. AFTER SHOWING HIM THE PICS RECENTLY THAT I HAVE SHARED WITH YOU ALL, HE CAME UP TO ME A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WITH A FOLDER TELLING ME HE HAD SOMETHING TO SHOW ME. IT WAS A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS AT HIS WIFES FAMILY REUNION AT BELLE ISLE. LEVI WAS SITTING ON A CHAIR IN A GROUP SHOT. APPARENTLY THE WIFES BROTHER IS A LIFELONG FRIEND OF LEVI, AND LEVI ATTENDED THIS REUNION. WHILE IT'S UNDOUBTABLY LEVI...HE DOES NOT REALLY APPEAR TO BE IN THE CONDITION TO RESUME HIS GREAT CAREER AT THIS TIME. HOPEFULLY, HIS RECOVERY WILL CONTINUE, AND IF NOTHING ELSE, BE ABLE TO REMEMBER AND ENJOY HIS VAST CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR GENERATION...STU

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.62) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 07:22 pm:

Nicely said Stu,its always a shame seeing anyone thats suffering,let alone a guy that has given me so much pleasure with his outstanding vocals.(Lets not also forget the Tops,and alas also a member short).As with the Tempts were talking music history regards Levi/4 tops,who have remained at the highest level at all times.Were talking at least 40 years here.I Have some nice footage on tape on Ed Sullivans(richard nixon look-a-like)shows.With various Newcomers from Motown at the time,Supremes,The classic Uptight by Stevie etc.But Levis voice,so distinctive and never faulters.I have various items on disc of the tops.All classics for me.Hey Stu,have you heard there un-issued record called Sweeter as the Days go by?Jesus,this is a totally superb piece of singing with Mr.Stubbs reaching those notes that remind of the time I heard him on All in the Game.Faultless.Check the track out Stu if you dont know it,the Lyrics are on a par to the superb Way You Do The Things You Do,by The Tempts.The reason I rave about this Tempts track is around 1974 I wROTE Down all the lyrics on paper for a mate of mine,who then presented them to his tart(sorry girlfriend)old scouse sayings die hard.Telling her he stayed up all night writing them down from memory as he was thinking of her.The Cad.Nuff said,anyone to Mr.Levi Stubbs,get well and healthy again,the sooner the better.MEL(Also a Biased Levi Stubbs Fanatic).

By StingBeeLee (209.104.137.225) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 07:24 pm:

I'm glad that the Four Tops never started the "Levi and the Four Tops" thing. I believe it was one of the reasons they stayed together so long. A lot of pressure was put on Levi to go solo after the Little Shop of Horrors movie, but he refused to do so. I remember seeing him sing the "feed me Seymore" song on TV and he was introduced as "Levi Stubbs of the Four Tops". He and the Tops are a class act all the way. Not to get anyones hopes up, but I talked to Deborah, Levi's daughter, and she said he is improving. He has a goal of going out to sing with the Tops on their 50th anniversary next year

By Nish (66.119.34.39) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 07:34 pm:

I'm so sorry that I'm not up on this, but what is wrong with Levi? I hope it's not something SO serious! My belated prayers go out to Levi Stubbs and his family for FULL recovery.

By Dennis Fan Is Right (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 08:22 pm:

My vote to Dennis Edwards, he's the better all around singer by far. Certainly the most effective live. David Ruffin was a horrible live act after he left the Temptations. People use to say David Ruffin couldn't sing and that they enjoyed Eddie Kendricks and Paul Williams leads better. Williams could have done as well if he had led them early Tempts' tune like My Girl, Since I Lost My Baby, and I Know I'm Losing You.

By MR.CLOUD 9 (195.219.7.44) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 08:32 pm:

DAVID,I SAY,DAVID RUFFIN RULES THE GOD DAMN ROOST.DENNIS DIDNT HAVE TO BUT HE DID WALK RIGHT ON OUT OF HERE.DDDDDDDDDDDAVID,DDDDDDDDDDDDDAVID,OK YOU WIN,DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDENNIS,I SAID,DDDDDDDDENNIS IS ON THE SPOT.YOURS A PAUL WILLIAMS FAN.WHO INCIDENTLY IS BETTER THAN BOTH.SO THERE.

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 09:27 pm:

Nish,
Levi has been battleing and apparently beating prostate cancer. He remains in our thoughts and prayers for a full recovery and then back to work.

By Julian (64.12.97.7) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 01:08 am:

Do any of the Dramatics songs give anyone a feel of what a psychedelic David would have sounded like, or is it just me? That guy, forgot his name, in the Dramatics sounds a lot like David Ruff!

Somebody give me the story on David's "You're Still In My Heart."

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 03:19 am:

Julian - Over to Graham for this one, I suggest...
(a great story, which Graham can tell, almost first-hand!)

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 10:44 am:

To Dennis Fan:

Watching David perform his solo segment on "Dancin In the Street", said otherwise. Despite his obvious illness, he still put on a show. Aretha & Marvin weren't great "live" performers (unless they were in that "mood") either but that doesn't diminished from their greatest. Some artists are better studio singers than live performers & vice versa. James Brown wasn't much of a singer but that doesn't take away from his dynamic live performances. Again, that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a great entertainer/producer. We don't need to knock one artist to build up another. That's doesn't serve any purpose on either artist's part. David said it himself that he couldn't sing "Cloud Nine" the way Dennis can or "Just My Imagination" like Eddie Kendricks. But heck, no one can sing "My Girl" the way David could. Even Dennis said he disliked singing "My Girl" because it was David's song.

Dennis was never solo act. He was always fronting a group. When one is with a group, you have support plus if you make any mistakes, you have your groupmates to pick up the slack. A solo act is whole different ballgame, simply because you are the center of attraction. Your show either sinks or swims. So I don't think that's a fair comparsion.

You say ta-MAY-toe, I say ta-MAH-toe! :o)

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:01 am:

Ralph:
HW informed me of Levi's illness. If you speak to anyone in his family please relay my regards & wishes for a speedy recovery. No one sings "Ask The Lonely" the way Levi does.

Julian:
The singer from the Dramatics you are probably referring to is L.J. Reynolds, whose co-lead vocals on "Hey You! Get Off My Mountain" and "Toast To The Fool" are indeed priceless.

Common:
Amen, mi amigo! No wonder Paul Williams sang the lead on "My Girl" on the Temptations TV special NBC-TV aired in 1969 and was truly amazing!

Nish:
Where have you been? Haven't gotten an email from you in a long time!

Peace To All,
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:51 am:

Ooops! Pardon the poor grammar:

"greatest"=greatness

"diminished"=diminish

That's what I get for typing too fast! :o)

Peace!

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:53 am:

Hey KevGo:

That's "amiga"! LOL! It's all good, friend! :o) BTW, what show are you referring to about Paul singing "My Girl"? Was it "The Temptations Show" or "TCB"? I've never heard his version & I would love to hear it.

Peace!

By StingBeeLee (209.104.137.170) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:01 pm:

Didn't WeeGee sing on "Hey You, Get Off My Mountain" and "Toast to the Fool" or was it LJ Reynolds sounding like WeeGee? Didn't I read somewhere on this site that there were two versions of "Toast to the Fool"? People around Detroit always said that WeeGee and David sounded alike in some ways, and the Dramatics were somewhat patterned like the Tempts (Everyone could sing lead, 5 distinct parts).

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:31 pm:

STING BEE; THE DRAMATICS, LIKE MOST TEEN AGED GROUPS OUT OF DETROIT DURING THE SIXTIES PATTERNED THEMSELVES AFTER THE TEMPTATIONS,(SEE THE TEMPTATIONS WANNABEE THREAD ON ARCHIVES RECENT), SO SIMILARITIES ON VOCAL PARTS AND HARMONY BREAKDOWNS ARE NO COINCIDENCE. COMMON; YOUR OBSERVATION ON DENNIS ADMITTING NOT LIKING TO SING "MY GIRL" POINTS OUT A MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DAVID AND DENNIS IN MY OPINION. DAVID WAS THE MASTER OF SELF PROMOTION, AND I'M SURPRISED THAT HE WOULD ADMIT THAT HE COULDNT SING ANYTHING AS WELL AS ANYONE ELSE!

By TD (67.27.78.213) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:49 pm:

You know the great thing about Levi is that even when he is screaming he sounds like he is singing as opposed to James Brown etc.
What a voice- Smokey Robinson -as quoted from his book
Levi Stubbs voice is the "Mona Lisa of music". Great compliment from a great singer.

TD

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 01:18 pm:

Hey StuBass,

Yep. I think I have a clip with David making those comments. What it sounds like to me is that David knew what he could do & what he couldn't.

When I watched David, Eddie & Dennis together, they have a certain comradarie(sp?) & bond. Despite the difficulties they had, they seem to really like each other. I always think about the love & friendship that they displayed to each other via various clips before David & Eddie's passing. To me, talent aside, that is what counts. :o)

Oh, BTW, when I saw Dennis last year at show, he gave much props to his 'deceased' Tempt brothers & dedicated "Memories" to them. Fans who have gone to see Dennis' shows, says he does this at every show. Dennis seems like a real nice guy!

Peace!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 02:07 pm:

Common:
Whoops! My bad, amiga!
Paul sang "My Girl" as part of a hit medley on "The Temptations Show." I have the soundtrack on LP.

StingBeeLee:
L.J. Reynolds joined the Dramatics in 1972-73 just in time to record "Hey You!" and "Toast To The Fool." He was chosen mainly because he could sing WeeGee's parts cold. As for the Temptations comparison, check out their early singles "Inky Dinky Wang Dang Doo" (Win Gate Records) and "All Because Of You" (Sport Records) to hear the Tempts influence.

Peace,
KevGo

By DennisFan (65.80.107.163) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 02:10 pm:

I never meant to sound like I was putting David down, I love his singing and his voice, I have all of his solo albums and his albums with the Temptations, he and Dennis were obviously friends, it was only my opinion that Dennis is better simply because of those performances on those albums I listed, this does not make it actual fact only my opinion. But I do feel people only see Dennis as the guy who replaced Ruffin, and started singing message songs, when he sung much more than that.

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 02:34 pm:

To DennisFan:

It's all good. Somebody's gotta watch Dennis' back. ;o) Even though David is my favorite Tempt, I, too, have always thought that Dennis' role in the Tempts legacy as been underplayed. It was great opportunity to see Dennis for the first time in my life & it was truly a blessing that he's come so far. I hope I can get to see him perform again sometime in the near future.

Peace!

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 02:35 pm:

Not again! "as"=has Sorry!

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.63) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 03:16 pm:

KevGo,I Would just like to say,the two records you mentioned above,Inky Dinky and All Because of you were Just played from my personel collection.Are you in any way able to see into the future.Regards the still very heated debate about the two Tempts,David Ruffin,YA,YA,YA.Also regards the question on Davids superb(what else from the numero uno )about the un-issued Youre still in my heart.I was told that David actually moon lighted when cutting this 45.Hope Graham can fill us in.And from memory wasnt the backing the same as(or similar)to J.J.s Classic Rare/Northern Soul side from the all-nighters of 1971,Sweet Sherry.God that brings back memories.MEL.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.63) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 03:27 pm:

Hey Stu,you certainly hit a nerve with this item Brother.Thats whats so good about artists that are totally so gifted,we can all discuss them through there ability that we have been luckily enough able to of heard.Personally I am thankful to of been led down that golden path of such a rich stable of not 1,but various great artists that made musical history through Motown Records.MEL.(By the way ,did I mention that David Ruffin is the guy for me).

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 03:29 pm:

Mel:
Thanks for the feedback. As for the Ruffin/Edwards debate I think Common has put it all in perspective for us.
Peace,
KevGo

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

Regarding "Still In My Heart", this is Graham's posting in my SoulsvilleUK Group:

From: acooolcat
Date: Tue Jan 30, 2001 12:56 pm
Subject: David's track

"I spoke to Don Davis and Melvin Davis about that
track. Don told me that David and Melvin called round to his house in the early hours of one morning, a bit worse for wear, and asked for the keys to the Golden World studio. They went off to the studio and Don was surprised to see David record the song while laying down on the studio floor! Melvin confirmed that story to me. "

The tape stayed in Don Davis' archives, and unissued for years as David was of course contracted to Motown at the time of the recording.

By Nish (216.148.246.134) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 04:00 pm:

Random question: WHY is there not a live version of "Since I Lost My Baby???" There is a live version of my favorite Tempts song "What Love Has Joined Together," but that's a b-side. You'd think a big hit would have been performed live at least once! Perhaps those vaults have it!

Ralph: Thanks for the info, it's good to here that Levi's coping well!

Dennis Fan: David Ruffin not a great live act? Whoa! That's a first. Most people I know think he comes ALIVE in live performance. He's vocal ability is just flawless to me. But, I will say that even at the time of his death, he was still sounding as powerful as ever. Other persons who have retained the strength of their voice in later years that I have seen are Freddie Scott, Marvin Junior, and Dee Dee Sharpe. Especially Dee Dee.

KevGo: 2 reasons, CONTRACTS and fall break, funny e-mail at home!

By DennisFan (65.80.107.163) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 04:15 pm:

umm I Never mentioned david's live act...that was someone else.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 04:36 pm:

NISH; SPEAKING OF 60'S SINGERS WHO ARE STILL AS POWERFUL AS EVER...CHECK OUT EDDIE HOLMAN (LONELY GIRL) ON HIS PBS APPEARANCE...ONE OF THE GREATEST LIVE VOCAL PERFORMANCES I'VE EVER SEEN...STU

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.20) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 04:43 pm:

Hey Ritchie,A great story about Mr.Ruffin and Mr.Davis(from graham).Any guy that can turn out a track like that whilst under the influence of whatever,whilst also laying down on the floor at the same time is certainly something special to say the least.Now then,Our Dennis Fan,what say ye to the No1 Tempt.Ritch,wouldnt it be something to go out on the razzle and being able to then aqquire the keys to a recording studio.Certainly puts my town into perspective,to say the least.This is my final piece about these two superb vocalists,as I Am a Johnny on the Spot totally biased nut.MEL.(Not as biased about David being no1 to Dennis,BOOM BOOM).

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 04:52 pm:

Yes, Mel. I can well imagine the scene, having frequented quite a few studios myself... The big difference is of course, many folks THINK they are great singers when they've had the odd glass or two, whereas David could still actually SHOW that he was (even if he couldn't stand up!)

By Nish (216.148.246.134) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 06:58 pm:

Stubass,

I actually saw Eddie's performance at the PBS show live, I was at the taping. And get this, we in the audience had to "suffer" thru him doing either "Hey There Lonely Girl" or "this can't be true" twice. It was a privilege to hear him do it twice, actually! :-)

I'm sorry for the mistake Dennis fan! :-)

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 07:12 pm:

NISH; I HAVE TO REITERATE...EDDIE HOLMANS PERFORMANCE OF "LONELY GIRL" WAS POSSIBLY THE BEST LIVE VOCAL PERFORMANCE I HAVE EVER SEEN. HE HAD THE AUDIENCE IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND. FLAWLESS VOCAL PERFORMANCE...DID NOT MISS A NOTE, AND HIS STAGE PRESENCE WAS AWESOME. LUCKY YOU TO HAVE BEEN THERE...I BELIEVE IT WAS TAPED IN PITTSBURGH. WAS IT AS AWE INSPIRING IN PERSON AS IT CAME OVER ON TELEVISION?

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 08:53 pm:

You guys are right about Eddie Holman on PBS. It sounded like he hadn't lost a think. Also I'm not sure if it was on the last show, or Doo Wop 51 where Mel Carter brought down the house. I thought he hadn't lost anything either.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:38 pm:

MEL; BY THE WAY. I SEEM TO FORGET WHO YOUR DAVID VS DENNIS VOTE GOES TO???????? STU

By Nish (128.239.202.115) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 01:46 am:

Stubass, Eddie's a Pittsburgh favorite, my goodness, so hearing him, and hearing him sound so good, just made us in the audience sit there, entranced. He's so nice in person, too! He invited I and my sis to the church where he and his wife minister in Philly if we come out there. I sure would like to go!

And Steve, I've been to all but 2 of the PBS specials (Doowop 50 and Doowop 52), and Mel Carter also had to do "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me" 3 times due to mic problems. It was great. At that same show, the Dells did "Oh What A Nite" AND "Stay" twice. Classic. I'm so glad that my city hosts these shows, because it gives me a chance to see some of my favorite singers.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.25) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 02:13 am:

Stu,I am still pretty much undecided over that question.Hang on though,after listening to David Ruffin,and reading about him,going through various mug shots of David Ruffin,Watching David Ruffin on some old footage of David Ruffin,catching up on some material of David Ruffin with his album he done with his brother Jimmy Ruffin and finding old unissued tracks on tape of David Ruffin,even the Dog growls RRRuffin,Im sorry to say STU,I think Ill sit on the fence over this one.MEL.

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.42) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 02:44 am:

Hey Stu,Your not getting me going regards Eddie Holman are you.Another superb vocalist,I Will keep this short as I dont want to sound biased in any way.BBBBBut,I still have a good few of his 45s.Check out(if you dont know them)Eddies My Name,I Surrender,Dont Stop Now,Hurt,This could be a night to remember and the superb version of Shes wanted(in 3 states and her crime is heartbreak,oops getting carried away there)and Where Im not wanted to name a few.Alas I Had the chance to see him Live twice,but some unforseen circumstances prevented me from getting there.I Have an interview of him and was asked about the Rare/Northern soul track by Larry Clinton on the MEGA-RARE Dynamo Label(the Dynamo out of Philly,not Detroit)of Shes Wanted.And Im sure,but not 100%,that he said he wrote it or had a big part in the writing or something like that and then ever so cool,Live on air,starts to sing the actual lyrics which he stated were a bit hazy as it was so long ago,I Fell of my chair in amazement.Not only did he remember the song he sounded that bloody good,I Had to check that he wasnt in my house.So I can totally agree with you and the other guys saying how good he was as a Live act.MEL(And I bet Eddie knew that David Ruffin Guy).

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:27 am:

MEL; I KNOW YOU WANNA LEAVE ME...BUT I REFUSE TO LET YOU GO! LIKE "RUFF STUFF", YOU'RE A CLASSIC!  NISH; I ALSO REMEMBER MEL CARTER ON THE PBS SHOW...GREAT TUNE AND OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE. VERY NICE STORY ABOUT REVERAND EDDIE HOLMAN. TWO GREAT PERFORMANCES, BUT LIKE I SAID BEFORE, EDDIE "STOLE" THE SHOW. HOWEVER, EDDIE VS MEL WILL NOT BE UP FOR DISCUSSION BY THIS REPORTER. BESIDES...DID MEL CARTER KNOW D.R.? STUBASS

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.69) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 01:02 pm:

Hey Stu,I have just been listening to some Motown cover versions and The Contours did a good version of the Tempts/on Its so Hard Being a Loser and also Its Growing.Good,but not better.Would like to add the masterful Earl Van Dyke and Esteemed Brothers with him on a stomping instrumental version of Nowhere to Run.I Havent played these for quite a while,yet The Motown Session guys as usual,are second to none.MEL.p.s.a little personal question stu,who are your fave guitarists from yesteryear.That got you interested in playing guitar?I Know it may put you on the spot,I Love T.Bone Walker,(will name just the 1,as I will go on a david ruffin role)also have got a nice pic of T.Bone playing a huge guitar from the early 50s(a gibson)?held up and behind his head.So listen in all Hendrix freaks who thought he did it first).

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 03:32 pm:

MEL; IF YOU CHECK MY BROTHERS RECENT POST ON THE JOE MESSINA THREAD, YOU;LL SEE WHO A LOT OF MY EARLY GUITAR INFLUENCES WERE. STUBASS

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.101) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 03:52 pm:

Stu,I noticed it just after I asked the Question.Typical,catch you later mate.MEL.

By STUBASS (205.188.209.38) on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

MEL; GETTING BACK TO MY PERSONAL FAVORITE GUITAR PLAYERS, OBVIOUSLY, THE MOTOWN FUNKS WERE IN A CLASS OF THEIR OWN FOR WHAT THEY DID. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH MY BROTHER...AND BELIEVE ME, HE HAS WORKED WITH THE MOST RENOWNED STUDIO CATS ON BOTH COASTS...JOE MESSINA REALLY DOES IT ALL, AND I CANT DISAGREE WITH MY BRO ON THAT. AS FOR MY PERSONAL TASTE...I DIG EVERYONE FROM CLAPTON TO STEVIE RAY VAUGHN FOR THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL STYLINGS. MANY OF MY FAVORITE PLAYERS COME FROM A JAZZ GENRE. JAZZ GREATS, THE LIKES OF WES MONTGOMERY, MELVIN SPARKS, GRANT GREEN, AND OTHERS HAVE ALWAYS GRABBED MY ATTENTION. ONE PLAYER WITHOUT THE NOTIRIETY OF SOME OF THE OTHERS WHO HAILS FROM DETROIT, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THE PLEASURE OF PERFORMING WITH IN THE "OLD DAYS" IS A GENTLEMAN NAMED ROBERT LOWE. FOR MY MONEY, HE HAS CHOPS SECOND TO NONE. HE HAS DONE SOME STUDIO WORK, BUT I HAVENT SEEN HIM IN YEARS. I DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING AT THIS TIME. T-BONE AND JOHNNY GUITAR WATSON...A REAL MUTHA FOR YA...I ALSO ENJOY THEIR PLAYING AND RECOGNIZE THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE FOLLOWING GENERATIONS. AS FAR AS BASS PLAYERS...JAMES JAMERSON STANDS HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE THEM ALL, ALTHOUGH GUYS LIKE BOB BABBITT AND TONY NEWTON COULD ALSO COOK. HOPE I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION...STUBASS

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 06:51 am:

Stu

There was a huge thread on the subject of people's fav bass players....about 6 months ago.

Perhaps before you joined us. I think you'd enjoy reading it.

David

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.91) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 08:14 am:

Hey Stu,many thanks for that,some truly talented artists mentioned as expected.But cant converse to much as Iam not aware in the technical and fine aspects of the artistry involved,especially with somebody as your fine self.Remember our piece regards Gene Page and his brother,well I got the 45 out I mentioned to you,Of Our Other Days(inst)its on a white promotional not for sale VMC label,but in big letters also says Page One with underneath,Gene Page Orchestra.Its written by W.Hansen.And is Arranged and Conducted by Gene Page Jr.and Produced by (no other than)Billy Page.Genes brother as you told me about.The track is the flip side to the instrumental of Walk Away Renee.Thanks Stu.MEL.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:32 pm:

DAVID; JUST SAW THE FAV BASS PLAYERS THREAD ATHOUGH I HAVN'T HAD TIME TO CHECK OUT IT'S ENTIRETY. OBVIOUSLY, THERE MANY OUTSTANDING BASS PLAYERS AROUND FROM THE WORLD OF FUNK, JAZZ, AND EVEN ROCK&ROLL. BEING CLOSE TO THE MUSIC INDUSTRY MOST OF MY LIFE, I HAVE SEEN AND KNOWN MANY FINE MUSICIANS, BUT THE ONE BASS PLAYER THAT I STILL ENJOY THE MOST IS JAMES JAMERSON DUE BOTH TO HIS ONE-OF-A-KIND SKILLS, AS WELL AS THE MUSIC THAT HE WAS BLESSED WITH TO PERFORM. I'M CERTAIN THAT NO-ONE MENTIONED ME ON THE BASS PLAYERS THREAD, ALTHOUGH FOR A BRIEF TIME I COULD PLAY A FEW LICKS AND HOLD A BACKUP BAND TOGETHER PRETTY WELL.....MEL; ANY PIECE OF MUSIC WITH A GENE PAGE SIGNATURE TO IT IS CERTAIN TO BE WORTH A CLOSE LISTEN TO FOR HIS MAGNIFICENT STRING AND HORN ARRANGEMENTS. MY BROTHER KNEW GENE WELL AND HIGHLY RESPECTED HIM AS A COLLEGUE. BY THE WAY, JUST REMEMBERED A TUNE THAT MY BROTHER ARRANGED FOR THAT SKINNY GUY WITH GLASSES THAT YOU LIKE SO MUCH DURING HIS SOLO YEARS. I ATTENDED THE VOCAL OVERDUB SESSION AT UNITED SOUND WITH DON DAVIS BEING INVOLVED THE THE PROD. THE TUNE IS CALLED "BREAK MY HEART". THATS MY BROTHERS HORN AND STRING ARRANGEMENT AS I RECALL, AND A BEAUTIFUL VOCAL RENDITION. GOT TO GO...STU

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.64) on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 01:08 pm:

Hey Stu,hows it going,many thanks for your time,always a pleasure to hear from you.That skinny guy you mentioned(Im always forgetting his name)and yes I most certainly have heard the track you spoke off,and all I can say,(only in my laymans terms,you understand)Yee-Ha.Superb.As well as not only being in the presence of Mr.Whats his name,Ruffin,you were in the company of two great artists as your brother and Mr.Don Davis.Say no more brother,you lucky so and so.Great memories indeed Stu,which must only be one from so many.Also nice to hear great things about Mr.Gene Page.And you most certainly hit the nail on the head regards his string and horn arrangements.MEL.

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 01:46 pm:

Hello Everyone,

Where can "You're Still In My Heart" be obtained? Is it on CD or on 45?

Dennisfan:

I apologize for my mistake. I thought you were the same poster posting twice. My bad!

Stubass:

That's my favorite Ruff song right about now (they change every day or so!:o) ). I love "Break My Heart" from the "So Soon We Change" LP. Did David sing on his back when he recorded this song too? :o)

Peace!

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:00 pm:

COMMON; HOW'S IT GOING. ACTUALLY, DAVID WAS IN A VOCAL BOOTH...ON HIS OWN TWO FEET ON THAT PARTICULAR OCCASSION, ALTHOUGH I MAY HAVE BEEN ON MY BACK IN THE CONTROL ROOM. DAVID WAS REALLY NICE ON THAT OCCASSION, AS MY SISTER AND I ACCOMPANIED MY BROTHER TO THAT PARTICULAR SESSION. HE REALLY SEEMED FOCUSED ON THE MATERIAL. DURING THE MID 80"S, I WORKED A BIT AS A D.J. ON A REALLY NICE CRUISE SHIP. I BROUGHT ALONG A COPY OF THAT TUNE THAT I HAD LAYING AROUND, AND THE PASSENGERS LOVED THAT NUMBER WHEN THE LIGHTS GOT LOW, AND I WANTED TO SLOW THE PACE. GREAT VOCAL PHRASING, AND OF COURSE...AN ARRANGEMENT SECOND TO NONE...STU

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:09 pm:

Nish:
I'm sure there is a live version of "Since I Lost My Baby" somewhere deep in the vaults of UMG's facility. This looks like a job for....HW! (Who we know is already overworked and underpaid).

To All Concerned:
While we're on the topic of Mr. Ruffin, does anyone have any thoughts on the following:
1) His wonderful duet album with big bro Jimmy (1970's My Brother's Keeper).
2) David as a songwriter (he wrote the esquisite "Statue Of A Fool" for his 1975 LP).
Let's hear it!
Regards,
KevGo

By StingBeeLee (155.139.68.10) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:21 pm:

KevGo;
The duet album that David did with Jimmy is a great album, especially "When my love hand comes tumbling down" and "Stand by Me" which has some of the best vocal interplay between two voices that you can get on record. The Detroit radio stations played "Love Hand" often, I wonder why it didn't go higher on the national charts. As for "Statue of a Fool", was that a Van McCoy production? By that time, it seems Mr. McCoy was locked in on the same formula, heavy bass drums and etc. I like McCoy's earlier stuff from '73 on back.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:32 pm:

"Statue.." was a Van McCoy production but it was a tender ballad with country/western overtones (imagine that!). It's very popular among those of us here in NYC/NJ who listen to this oldies radio show called "The Rhythm Review" (it was chosen among the listeners as one of the best R&B oldies of all time!).
As for the David/Jimmy LP, my fave is their version of "He Ain't Heavy - He's My Brother" - brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it because the love between these two was so real on the record. That's what we call soul.
Regards,
KevGo

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:37 pm:

Both "When My Love Hand..." and "Stand by Me" were also released on the "Motown Superstar Series, Vol. 8" which was a combined best of for both Ruffin brothers. I only mention it because I agree that "When My Love Hand..." is a great track, and as far as I know, the Superstar Series release is its only CD appearance to date.

Regards,
Ken

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:50 pm:

Kevgo,
There's a lot more commmon ground between country and soul ballads than most people realize. A lot of those great ballads by the likes of Dan Penn & Chips Moman (such as "Do Right Woman, Do Right Man") would work equally well as Memphis Soul or Nashville Country. Look at what Al Green did with Kris Kristofferson's "For the Good Times" or Gladys Knight and the Pips' take on his "Help Me Make it Through the Night", etc.

Regards,
Ken

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.19) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:17 pm:

LivoniaKen,theres 2 names worth mentioning,Chips Moman and Dan Penn.Now lets add,Bobby Coleman and Johnny Daye.Maybe we could get The Memphis Nomads to back it all up,with one exception.Can a guy known as StuBass please join us and give us a little bit of bass with those 88s.MEL(a.k.a.Caruso).

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:22 pm:

A perfect example of the blurred line between Country and R&B has got to be Arthur Alexander's early cuts for Dot.

- and wasn't Country once described as "White Man's Blues"? (Not the weepy commercialised variety of course, but pioneers like Hank Williams and Jimmy Rodgers.)

By STUBASS (206.135.204.2) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:23 pm:

KEVGO & KEN; DON'T FORGET LIONEL RICHIE"S "STUCK ON YOU". I WAS WORKING AS A NEWS BROADCASTER FOR WWWW FM COUNTRY 106 IN DETROIT AT THE TIME AND THEY WERE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING ADDING IT TO THEIR PLAYLIST AT THE TIME...A REAL COUNTRY FEEL...STUBASS

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.19) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:25 pm:

TO True Ritchie,All I Can say is YEEEEEE-haaaaa.MEL,out looking for 7 brides for 7 brothers.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.7) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:33 pm:

Mel - if you find eight, save the spare one for me!

By StingBeeLee (155.139.68.10) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:48 pm:

KevGo; I found the David/Jimmy album about a year ago, I'm going to listen to the rest of it, especially "He Ain't Heavy". One country record that walks on both the blues and country side is Ray Price's "The night time" which the musicians play like country and he sings it like the blues. Also, Patsy Cline's and the Jordanaires "Just a closer walk with thee", which blurs between Gospel and Country. Her rendition almost makes you want to go out and walk on water.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:07 pm:

Wow...
Thanks to all for the feedback. I should've made it known of my awareness between the relationship of Country & Soul. Dan Penn & Chips Moman are one of my favorite writing/production duos ("Gimme a ticket for an aeroplane...")and Arthur Alexander's Dot masters laid the groundwork for the Muscle Shoals Sound.
Sting-
Anything Patsy Cline sings is priceless...
Stu-
I was a DJ in 1984 when "Stuck On You" crossed over to Country & the initial resistance it met (even though Lionel Richie wrote & produced "Lady" for Kenny Rogers). With Country now sounding more like pop, it was indeed the shape of things to come...
Ken-
What Al & Gladys did with Kristofferson's catalog reflected an open-mindedness toward related musical genres that we rarely see nowadays. How about Al's classic treatment of the Bee Gees' country-tinged "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart" -great interpretation (& the original ain't too bad, either!).
Check out this wonderful CD called "Rhythm, Country & Blues" that was released in the mid 1990s on MCA. It features Al Green, Lyle Lovett, Natalie Cole, Reba McIntyre, Conway Twitty (his last performance) with Sam Moore. Great duets, wonderful performances.
Peace to all,
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.112) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:20 pm:

I can't comment enough about the David/Jimmy collobaration. They are so in tuned with each other. My favs off the LP are: "He Ain't Heavy", "Steppin On A Dream", "Set 'em up (move in for the thrill)"(what cool title for a song!), "The Things We Do" & "Lo & Behold". BTW, is "Lo & Behold" a traditional gospel song?

I, too, can't understand why this LP was so underpromoted. The chemistry, the singing & the arrangements were on target.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 06:07 pm:

KevGo,
I think they also had a PBS special about the making of that album (Rhythm, Country, & Blues).
However, I only saw it once.
-Steve

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 07:14 pm:

Steve:
Yeah...I saw the PBS airing of RC&B and it was available on home video for a brief shining moment..
KevGo

By Jody (152.163.188.68) on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 10:30 pm:

KevGo,
Many years ago, Statue of a Fool became a cover and an instant huge hit for a country artist, Jack Green. There have been at least two people other than David that claimed they wrote this song. NOT!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 03:29 pm:

Jody:
Agreed...According to the Ruffin album "Just You & Me" (Motown 1975), Ruffin wrote "Statue.."
KevGo

By Common (209.2.55.113) on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 03:40 pm:

Hello KevGo,

You mention an album by David called "Just You & Me". Are you talking about "Who I Am" that was released in '75? That's the LP that featured the "Statue" cut. Is this an LP that no one knows about? I do know that there was an album by David that was never released in '71.

Peace!

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 01:22 pm:

Jody,

About Jack Greene - he had a hit with "Statue of
A Fool" back in 1969 a good six years before
David's song so he couldn't possibly have
covered it. I heard a sample of the Jack Greene song and it doesn't sound like the same song to me.

Anyway, it's a shame David didn't write more
as "Statue" is one of my favourite tracks from that album

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 01:59 pm:

Common:
Whoops! Again, brain damage got the best of me! The album is "Who I Am" - mixed it up with someone else's...That's what happens when you spend the evening organizing damn near two-thousand record albums (the Gordy & Tamla labels start looking alike after a few fuzzy hours..).

Point taken regarding David as a writer. It's a shame he didn't do more of it. "Statue.." could've been a Grammy contender...

KevGo

By Jody (152.163.188.68) on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 08:12 pm:

Davie,
You are right...Not a cover...
Confused about that... Was on David's "WHO I AM" album of 1975 I believe. Not confused that it is the same song. Very obvious if you really listen. You should be able to hear the song on the Jack Greene page.

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.26) on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 09:57 am:

Jody,

I'll try to hear the full Jack Greene song - the
sample I heard was only about 50 seconds long.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention, I knew
that there had been a country hit called "Statue
of A Fool" but thought they were completely
unconnected.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

AS AN OLD TEMPS FAN LET ME STATE HERE AND NOW THAT DAVID AND DENNIS WOULD HAVE NO TROUBLE SINGING EACH OTHERS TUNES,ITS TRUE THAT DENNIS VOICE WAS A LITTLE EARTHIER THAN DAVIDS BUT REMEMBER DAVID SANG IN THE MELLOW VEIN BECAUSE THATS THE WAY THAT SMOKEY WROTE HIS SONGS.DAVID STATED GETTING GRITTIER WITH{AINT TOO PROUD TO BEG},ITS JUST THAT WE GET USED TO HEARING A SONG SUNG IN A CERTAIN VOICE BUT DENNIS COULD BE MELLOW TO.THERE IS A SONG CALLED{SINCE I LOST YOU}FROM THE CLOUD NINE ALBUM.THE TEMPS WERE VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE HAD TWO OF THE GREAT SOUL SINGERS OF OUR GENERATION,DAVID RUFFIN AND DENNIS EDWARDS LEGENDS.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198) on Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 01:55 pm:

Some choice, Its not every group that gets to choose between these two great talents. I guess the only way out of this one is to say that David was best for the song he sung on up to 1968,and Dennis was best for the songs he had to sing especially the post 'cloud nine' funkier type songs with revolving leads.
Totaly non-commital i know, but i just don't see it any other way.