| Author | Message | ||
  BJL (bjl) 2-Debutant Username: bjl Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 217.205.87.151 |
Does anyone know how to date a Detroit 45 with an "AR" numbe ? I have some already and just got another (AR-4886). | ||
LarsC (the_norwegian) 2-Debutant Username: the_norwegian Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 80.203.27.167 |
Have you tried looking at the Anorak's Corner overview of pressing plants ? http://capitolsoulclub.homeste ad.com/PressingPlants.html Maybe the info you need is on that page  | ||
BJL (bjl) 3-Pundit Username: bjl Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 217.205.87.151 |
Thanks, Lars - it was the first place I looked but I couldn't find anything there about "AR" prefixes though... | ||
Graham Finch (acooolcat) 4-Laureate Username: acooolcat Post Number: 112 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 210.200.105.225 |
BJL I guess Ron Murphy might be able to answer your question. I've got no idea. But here are a few Detroit label 45s with AR numbers: AR 857 - Demoristic #857 (The Ravins) AR 939 - Gatewood #939 (Alphonso Hamilton) AR 493 - King Soul #493 (Gloria Taylor) AR 884 - Leo #884 (Jay Rhythm) AR 953 - Magic City #007 (Mad Dog & Pups)(released in 1969) AR 1074 - Magic City #008 (Soul Tornadoes) AR 489 - Mandingo #1 (Four Tracks) AR 724 - Tru-Ba-Dor #724 (Soul Generation) What else have you got? | ||
Davie Gordon (davie_gordon) 4-Laureate Username: davie_gordon Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 212.219.250.1 |
I don't know for certain but I think that the three-digit matrix numbers used on most of Mike Hanks' labels are part of this series although they omit the "AR" We could use this thread to collate known AR matrix numbers as well as the possibles and arrive at a rough dating guide. I hope to have access to my database early next week which should give us quite a lot of data to work on. Davie | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) Moderator Username: david_meikle Post Number: 182 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 81.130.211.124 |
What is the background to AR? Is it Archer? If so they opened 1965 according to their web site. How many pressing plants were there in the Michigan area? ARP in Owosso plus Archer, any more? (Message edited by david meikle on June 02, 2004) | ||
BJL (bjl) 3-Pundit Username: bjl Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 217.205.87.151 |
The ones I've seen are 4 digits. The 45 I got today has no pressing name in the dead wax just a couple of initials (a kind of monogram) which are very hard to read. | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 4-Laureate Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
the AR on a label or in the wax means Archer Record Pressing pressed that record for sure.. the number that follows is Archer's invoice/job number. the reason an "AR" number will appear on a record pressed by Archer is only when the record company does not supply it's own release number to be used, and since there must be something to identfy every record, then Archer will use the invoice number on those records. I pressed one of the first records at Archer in early 1966, the first record pressed there was Ed Crook on Tri-sound label, my invoice number for my job was like 106 or something like that..but I had my own record number. now back during the 60's and 70's most of Archer's plating(stampers) was done at Nashville Matrix and Archer's account number with them was "95", so if the master tape was given to Archer he would send it down to George Ingram's Sound Of Nashville to have record masters cut and then he would take them down the street for processing at Nashville Matrix where the "95" was scratched in. I guess you could date alot of Archer pressings that used his job number(AR) if you could get access to Archer's old files and get a fix on some of those numbers relating to a date, maybe what number ended every 4-6 months, of course if they still have the old invoices and if he would make them available. Norman Archer started the plant in late 65 and went around the area visting the studios asking them to try him out, that's how I met him, when Norm got sick in the late 60's his son Joe came in to help. today Joe's son Mike is in charge of the day to day operations and business is good, and since I'm still cutting a lot of the records pressed there I stay in contact with him. I hope this answers the questions about Archer Record Pressing, but if there are more I'd be happy to help. | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) Moderator Username: david_meikle Post Number: 183 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 82.4.5.158 |
Ron Can you remember some of the labels which used Archer? | ||
BJL (bjl) 3-Pundit Username: bjl Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 62.253.64.7 |
Very interesting, Ron - thanks a lot. I've just checked two 45s with AR #s and neither has a conventional cat #. You've also explained why another new arrival (Von 715) has both Archer and Nashville Matrix in the deadwax... | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 4-Laureate Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
hello David: it would be easier to name labels they have not pressed., I just checked with Mike Archer on their invoice/job numbers and they are very close to number14,000 so that means Archer has pressed 14,000 different orders or jobs since late 1965. of course some of those were just orders of maybe only a hundred or some could be in the thousands of records, but at least gives an idea of how many different releases were pressed at Archer over the past 39 years of operation. I have mentioned this site to Mike Archer and he is going to take a look and may come on and say hello. | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) Moderator Username: david_meikle Post Number: 184 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 82.4.5.158 |
Thanks very much Ron. | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 4-Laureate Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 79 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
more on the Archer "AR" numbers..there are some intances where an "AR" number as well as the labels release number may appear.. what happened here was that when the order was taken the label did not supply a number and since the master tape needed to be sent out to have the record master cut Archer would use his invoice/job number for a reference until the label information came in which might be a few days later. there were a few other pressing plants in michigan..the first was Vogue Records started I think around 1947 but went out of business around 1952...then there was Vargo Record Pressing around 1951, which ended up moving to Owosso(20 miles West of Flint) to become American Record Pressing starting in 1952 operating in a garage until moving to an old boat factory in 1963 and expanding their operations. this was the biggest and one of the country's best plants employing 250 people until the plant burnt down in 1972 there was also Falcon Records started around 1955 on Packard Street in Detroit and later moved over to Royal Oak on Crooks Road they also had a recording studio as well and they lasted to around 1967. another pressing operation was Sound Inc. on Hall rd. in New Haven.. they also had a studio as well as their own label..it was run by Danny & Larry Lick, they did alot of polkas and country music. they ran from about 1964 up to the early 80's there was one pressing place that really never really got running called Trinity Sound on Southfield Rd. in Ecorse.. they pressed a couple church LP's and then put it up for sale, this was in 1971 when myself and some others went over to take a look at it. other than Vogue and Vargo setups which were way before my time I managed to do business with or at least check out the other pressing operations. | ||
Graham Finch (acooolcat) 4-Laureate Username: acooolcat Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 210.200.105.225 |
Thanks for the info' Ron. It would be great of Mr. Mike Archer would give us some idea of pressing dates based on the Archer files/job numbers. Do you know how to spot a 45 that was pressed at the Ohio Recording Service? I see they advertised in the Detroit Yellow Pages during the 60s. Are they relevent? Davie I think many of Mike Hanks' 45s were pressed in Chicago - at Sheldon. The number usually has a prefix of MW. Is that right, Ron? | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) Moderator Username: david_meikle Post Number: 187 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 81.130.211.124 |
Check Google for much more detail on Vogue Picture discs. Images et al. http://www.circleskyrecords.co m/Melody%20Hill/Vogue%20Pictur e%20Discs.htm http://www.voguepicturerecords .org/records.htm http://www.azcentral.com/home/ design/articles/0522azantiques 22.html | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 4-Laureate Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 80 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
hi Graham: if you find "MW" on a record, that means it was pressed at Midwest Records(Chicago) and of course Sheldon Records(Chicago) had their own custom logo stamp to put into the records...both of these places pressed records but Sheldon was a complete operation that cut their own master records as well, and that's why on some records you would see the Sheldon stamp as well as the Midwest "MW" prefix because a job came into Midwest for pressing and they would send the tape over to Sheldon to have the lacquers cut. Ohio recording Service listed pressing as one of their services but that work was brokered out to whatever pressing plant they would use., as they were only a studio, but would make extra money handeling other parts of a job for the customer. |
