| Author | Message | ||
  Arcadia (arcadia) 3-Pundit Username: arcadia Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 4.237.47.104 |
Any thoughts about Cosby's speech and his comments about the parenting skills of the "lower economic" African-American community?? Right on truth ? Or is Mr. Cosby out of touch with reality? Link: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/507808 6/ A- | ||
Jimmy Mack (luke) 5-Doyen Username: luke Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.198.48.201 |
If u r gonna bring this huge hot potato up Arcadia you better give your opinion first! | ||
Arcadia (arcadia) 3-Pundit Username: arcadia Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 4.237.47.104 |
" ... People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around," Cosby grumbled, according to The Washington Post and Associated Press. "The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids � $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' " Bill Cosby ______________________________ ___________________________ LOL, Is that why I "hear" that deafening silence Jimmy Mack? OK, I'll go first but where do I start? There is not a waking moment in my life that I don't think about the civil rights movement in the 50's/60's/70's and the impact it has made in my life. I participated in the movement from the Freedom Marches to being the first "colored" student to attend a previously all white school. Hell, in college I joined the Black Panthers, I was quite militant at that time. Angela Davis and Eldridge Clever were my heros. In reading Mr. Cosby's comments I wondered if he would have approved of my militant lifestyle and radical beliefs in what I felt was an apartheid type existence in this country. And if he didn't agree? So what ! Bill Cosby continues; "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!" I do agree with Bill Cosby about seeking a good education and remembering the great sacrifices made by so many in order to secure a good education. As a parent, I appreciate his wisdom. But we must place things in it's proper perspective. This is 2004 and I do think African Americans have benefitted from that movemet, some what. Where I disagree with Mr. Cosby is the result of what happened to that movement as we evolved and our children took on a type of lifestyle that includes rap music, baggy clothes and, I must admit, a dialect that even I don't understand. That doesn't make them bad and yes they can become Doctors! I have two sons and I am the adopted mother of several of my son's friends because I understand the concept of what they feel is "their" life. I mean if I say to my son, I walked in freedom marches so that you can get a good (it STILL ain't equal) education he will respond, 'Mom, I am grateful. But this is who I am and I'm NOT going to stop playing the fifty-cent records and I'm NOT going to stop wearing baggy pants. Yes I'm going to wear expensive designer sneakers and wouldn't get caught wearing sneakers from K-mart. And if people think I'm in a gang well that's THEIR problem. In other words it's THEIR concept and I can't help that. I see Rap music as a social commentary much like the music of the 60's/70's. I see Rap music as an artistic venue that is here to stay. I think the broad brush was a little harsh on Mr. Cosby's part, but I do think he means well. He is a father and philanthropist giving to black colleges ..... setting up scholarships. All positive, all good. The systemic racism still continues. The police seek us out, even when we are just minding our own business and it's not fair or equal. Perhaps Bill Cosby's money/celebrity can protect him from the unfair treatment that is handed down everyday in this country towards African American males. But I can assure him that his skin color will NOT protect him. I don't want to get in the head of Dr. Bill Cosby because I do support him, especially his wife Camille Cosby. I think I understand what he means but the changes that have taken place in the black youth of today are NOT going to change on the dime of Mr. Cosby. It ain't gonna happen. In that regard, we have to try and make things work for our kids in **their** environment, not OUR concept or even Bill Cosby's concept. Chris Rock can bluntly declare, "I love black people, but I hate niggas!" � and receive thundering applause from black audiences who understand completely what he is saying. A- (Message edited by arcadia on May 28, 2004) | ||
Gary (gary) 3-Pundit Username: gary Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.73.238.5 |
Cosby's remarks sound somewhat mean-spirited to me. | ||
Uptight (uptight) 4-Laureate Username: uptight Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.55.0.68 |
Cosby's remarks weren't mean-spirited as much as they were angry and concerned. It was just a way to prove a point, basically. He was asked to speak on the subject, and he did his job. Being the speaker and reknowned comedian he is, he must have been expected to say these things the way he did. Sometimes you have to make such general statements to make a point, however alarmist it may sound at first. Without those controversial remarks, the speech would have been dull, short and would have gone untalked about. The folks responding to reporters and disagreeing with how he said it were not the ones Cosby was referring to in his examples. (They agreed with much of what he said anyway.) They need not get offended. His speech also serves to keep reporters and the media working because they thrive on these kinds of moments. Cosby did his job; media did theirs. | ||
dvdmike (dvdmike) 4-Laureate Username: dvdmike Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 65.208.234.61 |
I say kudos to Mr. Cosby. He spoke the truth. | ||
Wonder B (wonder_b) 5-Doyen Username: wonder_b Post Number: 360 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.249.168.66 |
Same for me dvdmike... if he did talk like that it's because he's a role model... and that's role model's job to try to pull people up... Can 50 Cent be one someday... damn, I hope I'll have left this world then... Furthermore, if kids wear $500 sneakers these days if they're good kids and didn't steal them, then it must be their parents who bought them... so they only have themselves to blame if they don't recognize themselves in their own descent... I am a responseible parent too and it is my duty to explain them that just because you don't have the latest hippest sneakers or baggy pants you are not respectable and intelligent and fun to be with... on the contrary. If your friends don't want to hang out with you just because of that then you shouldn't be with them. And if you still want those $500 shoes, go buy them with your own money... I ain't paying that much for my shoes so why some teenager (my son!) should!? In te words of the great Dexter Wansel, What is this world coming to...? Wonder B | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 190 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 152.163.252.200 |
In the words of my Jamaican Brother Bob Marley, "Whom the cap fits let them wear it" Analogous to the American words, "If the shoe fits wear it" | ||
motownboy (motownboy) 3-Pundit Username: motownboy Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 67.117.45.179 |
I think Bill Cosby's message is that parenting should be a responsiblilty to be taken seriously and that he sees that it isn't being taken seriously and responsibly by enough parents. However, I see the same criticsms he mentioned of many African Americans being true of many in ALL ethnic backgrounds. I think parenting, in general, is not what it should be - regardless of ethnic background, etc. | ||
Wonder B (wonder_b) 5-Doyen Username: wonder_b Post Number: 367 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.250.181.60 |
Motownboy it is absolutely true... this is just a universal message... I should have mentioned it in my post but when I think about the music I love it and the artists who define it, it makes it all the more hurtful! I don't care I am going to see Bettye LaVette tomorrow... that ought to bring me back to essential soul... Wonder B | ||
Eva (bigswede2002) 3-Pundit Username: bigswede2002 Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.226.54.68 |
Hi everyone, I don't live in the U.S., so I hesitate to enter the discussion, but I'd like to forward an IMHO thoughtful response to Bill Cosby's comments (from the same web site): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50 77938/ Eva | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1228 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Eva, That was a very interesting & measured article. Thanks for the link. | ||
J5 Collector (j5_collector) 2-Debutant Username: j5_collector Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.190.127.252 |
Cosby made a similar ranting speech in his hometown of Philadelphia a few months ago when he was speaking to parents and students attending a public school talent/awards assembly. When a Philadelphia Inquirer columnist criticized Cosby, saying he was talking to the wrong crowd of people (these were caring African-American parents who were clearly involved in their kids' schools), he blew his top. I guess no one is allowed to disagree with Dr. Cosby. My sense is he's gone around the bend. While he may have some valid points, he seems to have gotten increasingly hostile and downright cranky. Tony Brown was saying similar things years ago, but in a much more constructive way. Rather than chatising poor and working class parents, Mr Brown laid a lot of the blame at the feet of African Americans who had achieved economic success and then abandoned the stuggling Black community. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1240 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
I have the sense that Bill is still feeling the after effects of his sons' death. I would imagine that when he thinks of all of the inner city violence & some of our youth that are throwing their lives away, he must be thinking that it's an injustice that his son is gone & these kids are still here being destructive. I think that runs through his mind every now & then. I also agree with him when he says that some of our priorities are backward. However, he shouldn't have indicted an entire group of poor people. There are many hard working families that fight to keep things together & all poor kids are not criminals. Furthermore, regarding being a parent, this has got to be the hardest generation to be a parent of. In the old days when a parent disciplined a child, out came the belt, switch & for some folks, the old ironing cord. You knew that you had to toe the line or there would be consequences. And you know what???? It didn't hurt us one bit. We learned respect & we were expected to show it. Somehow, we survived the horror of it all. Today, if you LOOK the wrong way at your child, you'll have 10 BCW workers threatening to take your child from you. You see, Dr Spock or some other genius came to the conclusion that physical discipline was the equivalent of abuse. And they'll give your kid a lawyer to go up against you. So, right there is the beginning of losing control of your child. There are parents who have truancy & discipline problems. It seems as though things like 600 schools & PINS petetions have fallen by the wayside. If a parent tries to put their child in reform school, the system won't do that....UNTIL the child COMMITS A CRIME!!!! So much for early intervention. Now, the child finally commits a crime, what happens next??? Naturally, the child is indoctrinated into the wonderful world of the penal system. The child whom they wouldn't help UNTIL he/she committed a crime is now marked. The child now has another strike against them. In all actuality, this is part & parcel of a plan. Why is it that there are more prisons being built in some states than schools? The reality is that in some towns, right here in New York State, Prisons are the towns' main industry. How many jobs does crimes provide??? How many police, lawyers, judges, correction officers, wardens does the penal system provide jobs for? You better believe that they're not going to have food taken off of their table, because CRIME PAYS! This goes deeper than that. For every minority kid in jail, that one less kid left to compete with the majority for jobs. This in effect is a double-edged sword & it's lethal. If you don't believe this is part of a systematic mindset, then explain why here in New York, things such a tickets are factored into the City Budget??? They are counting on our breaking the law & if we don't break it, they'll find a way to get you that ticket. Got to make that revenue you know. Think about it. There are reports daily about how our college graduates can't find jobs. Older workers are staying in the workforce longer. Because of such things as the junk bond scandals of the 80s, the dot com bombs of the 90s & losses in the stock market, those golden parachutes aren't golden at all...they're lead. Add to that, the constant downsizing & outsourcing of American jobs. Even if Johnny can read, can Johnny get a job??? So, what is Johnny to do?? Prices are climing higher, the power of your dollar is getting weaker & doesn't go anywhere as far as it used to. How does one survive if you live in an expensive city like New York or California??? Survival is the law of nature. When people can get jobs, have low paying jobs & can barely pay their bills, what happens next? Cut a corner here, get a little hustle there, what's next??? The bottom line is that this is part of an attack on the AMERICAN family, not just minority families. For every family that has to have two parents working in order to make ends meet, is a family that has children without supervision. A child without is a time bomb waiting to explode. This is not just about money, this is about cold, calculated breaking down of the family. When you try to destroy a weed, you don't yank it out of the ground. The roots are still there & they will grow again. Well. the roots of America has always been the family. If you can destroy the family at the root, you've destroyed the family. We've seen the results of this many times. Trust me, it's not coincidence. Are some of our kids & parents guilty of screwed up priorities....yes. Are too many of us failing to take advantage of education & the power of the vote....yes. Are some of our youth caught up with violence & mayhem....yes. Regardless, there are many more who do care & are doing the right thing to the best of their ability & Bill should know that. It's hypocritical to condemn these kids as animals when they're only emulating what they see. Where violence is concerned, where did these kids learn it??? It's everywhere, movies, TV, Music, EVERYWHERE!!! That's by design too. How many war movies have been produced? They always made war look noble. How many Indians were killed by Cowboys?? Again, it was a noble thing. We say all of the right things, however, in spite of what we say, they know that might makes right. Look at what's going on in Iraq. Anyone who knows the Bible understands what this is all about. I won't get into that, the tree is known by it's fruit. I won't identify the tree, it identifies itself by the fruits of its work. Bill has some valid points, but, he should know better. He's smarter than that! (Message edited by Juicefree20 on May 28, 2004) (Message edited by Juicefree20 on May 28, 2004) | ||
Arcadia (arcadia) 3-Pundit Username: arcadia Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 4.237.47.118 |
Wow! Bravo! You are a dynamic speaker. Juice for Mayor, Governor, PRESIDENT! Juice, very well said! EXCEPTIONALLY well said. I agree with you 100%! A- | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1246 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Arcadia, Thank you very much. I started to state the obvious just as Bill did. However, there are so many factors to consider. I've touched base on just a few of the problems. It's very easy to state the symptoms of a disease, too easy. Sometimes folks forget to understand the cause of it. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 4-Laureate Username: ~medusa Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.97.47 |
I agree and well said Juice. I just feel that Bill Cosby could've/should've addressed his concern in a different manner, I don't actually disagree with what he said, but how he said it. In todays society, there are a lot of babies having babies, for some of the strangest reasons...then there are the parents trying to keep up the same style as their young sons & daughters...but, I'd rather see a child wear Baggy pants, he/she can change their clothes, I'd rather hear a child speak broken English, they can be corrected, than to have a child premeditates & murders a school full of people and then taking their own life...and their parents claim they didn't have a clue..and may we not een mention our Presisdents daughters. Bill Cosby must remember, poor people didn't/don't bring drugs to this country, poor people are not in the media daily, setting standards for todays youth, as far as style & entertainment~(TV/Magazine/Boo ks/Video/Audio) everyday, the media is encouraging and glorifying Violence/drugs/ alcohol/smoking/& ?sex? etc...and allow it to infiltrate in the poor neighborhoods, through Billboards and other means of commercial advertisments...and although I understand whre he was acoming from, there is NO ONE on the planet earth that is perfect, not even Bill Cosby and/or his family. | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 172.134.234.101 |
J5 Collector, Juice and others have already spoken eloquently on the topic. I think Bill Cosby's comments were a bit of a cheap shot, even if you account for them being taken somewhat out of context. My take on it is that no class of U.S. blacks is holding up our end of "the deal," unless the deal is to pursue the goal of a more comfortable version of second-class existence. Truly exercising "personal responsibility," "self-help," and "taking care of home instead of blaming the white man," at all levels of black society, would result in behaviors that would NOT make the white conservatives and their black lap-dogs who snidely use such cliches as weapons for disparaging black people happy. It would mean diverting our time, money, attention, loyaly, and energy away from many of the enterprises and agendas of the outer society and turning them inward. It would involve black people at all income levels turning away from self-defeating behavior that many of out critics hope we perpetuate at the same time they harangue us for the behavior. It's just easy to spot this behavior in poor and working class people, and the results are more visible. I'm not calling Bill Cosby one of those lap-dogs, but he's viewing his "fourteen fireplaces" and "millionaire" status as being more ennobling than they are. Well-to-do blacks may not bear the obvious ear-marks of group failure, but if all black people were on our posts as we ought to be, much of the criticism leveled at poor and working-class blacks would shift in the direction of the more affluent, because black people would be more of a threat to the status quo accross the board. | ||
Bixah (bixah) 1-Arriviste Username: bixah Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Re Mr. Cosby, I dont believe that he was speaking out of hate. I do not believe he was speaking out as a "Celebrity" I believe he was speaking out of a cry for our nation - and this is what needs to be done. We are infiltrated with today's society moving faster than we can catch it - and that deems a parentless home for most. For what a child is offered in the home - lack there of Attention - because time is not just ... It is given by gifts/things/anything - to show by a parent that they care - when children today are either offered too many material things - and no actual "Parent" - or they are offered a Parent that is too engorged in trying to stay afloat - and they may choose paths that are not healthy - yet it is what they have (not that it is correct/condoned) but for the most part - Parents are challanged today - in many ways - that even in the last TEN years - the Life of a Child Today - is nothing in compare to a child of 1994. It is a SAD reality - and it is True - Children are being left behind - even by their own parents. Unfortunatley even so - the truth does show - within the children and the way the behave today. Do we blame the Parent? Do we blame the Schools? Do we blame the Media - there are evils within all of the support systems that children face - every day - and it is not going to get better. We cannot continue to Candy Coat - the World - areound our Children - the Reality is - it is not a kind nor equal society. Children are judged, Parents are Judged - and is not an easy peace to take on. We are All Struggling - and For Mr. Cosby to Speak out - Maybe He Needed to Shake it UP - and make some people aware. I have always loved his humor - I have always loved him for being decent - and for using Life - in his humor. Even a Funny Man Crys. | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 327 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.201.217 |
I agree with a lot of what you say, Bixah, and Juice, and others above. I don't have the knowledge of the current situation with the parents of poor, inner city kids in USA (African-American, Hispanic or otherwise) to comment on whether or not Bill Cosby went too far with his criticism, there. But, from what I've seen living part-time in USA, it seems that the problems in the relationships of the parents to the children is similar for ALL parents and children in ALL the ethnic groups. With technology changing so fast, causing children to experience a lot of time in activities alone; and with both parents working these days, children have a lot less time being directed by adults. There is a lot less time for learning respect, and getting positive direction. Messages from The Society, itself, based mainly on commercialism, do more to hurt the formation of young peoples' values. Admittedly, the still racist society in USA makes it more difficult for African American youth from poorer, inner-city situations, to make positive moves to upgrade their situation. I think that's what was behind Bill Cosby's rant. He knows that because of the still unbalanced situation in USA regarding "fairness" and justice, that African American parents need to do that much more hard work to try to create a positive atmosphere or attitude in their kids. That's a very difficult thing to do, considering all the negative aspects of their situation. It's not surprising that he's frustrated. It's difficult to raise kids in a proper moral atmosphere today, even if you are in the powerful rich "Lilly White" elite. It's that much harder in the inner city situation. I wouldn't want to be raising young kids now. It's an awesome responsibility. It's very tough, with the morals in Western Civilisation having been eroded, and commercialism hammering stronger and stronger at the population, and with the family breaking down. I am not saying this is unique to USA, as I've seen it happening also in Canada and Western Europe. I believe that it's a little more advanced in USA than anywhere else, because they had a head start on it. It seems to me that Canada and the Western European countries are still a little more socially minded than USA, but they are following right along, on the USA's path of societal degredation. I even see, now, the Third World countries starting to follow that same path, as they are joining the technological World, and being thrown very quickly into a single-World market. Soon, the entire World will be one single society. The problems regarding how society should be structured, the raising of children, teaching ethics and morals, etc. is a universal problem. Regarding Cosby's frustration with the inner-city parents, I think his criticism wasn't aimed at ALL lower-income African American parents. He knows that many of them are doing everything they can to keep things as positive as possible. I think he hates to see so many kids suffer from having a bad situation (how ever many that is -is too much for him), due to what he "sees" as parent neglect. I'm sure for him, putting blame on society, or the "powers that be", or the system (even rightly placed) doesn't help these people. It seems that he believes that they need to work harder to do what he thinks is right by their kids to improve their chances for a better life. The tone of his rant may well have been partly affected by his son's "needless" death, but I believe that he is sincere in those basic beliefs, in any case. I can't speak about whether or not the parents he criticised are doing the best they can, or not. It's tough to raise kids now. How could I tell my kids "You can't have all those expensive toys, electronics and things, when virtually ALL the other kids are getting them? How could I tell my kids they can't watch more than a little "educational" TV because most of the rest of what is on is "mind-numbing tripe", and by spending hours alone watching that, one misses out on experiencing life, when ALL the other kids are spending hours doing just that? The same goes for sitting and playing computer games. All I could do would be to provide a good example to them in my own behaviour; provide a loving, supportive home, teach them to respect life and other people, and thus, to live by the Golden Rule (10 commandments are included in that one rule); teach them the value of work and that money doesn't come from the sky-(e.g. that the "real" good things that come in life are from what you put into them), and provide enough guidence to help them on their way, but not do so much for them that they can't become their "own person". I could (and did) tell them "You can't stay up past this time on a schoolnight" and You CAN'T stay out past this time." and "You WILL tell me where you will be." and you WILL face consequences if you do 'THESE WRONG THINGS'. "That's easy to say, and a lot of us did a reasonable job in generations past. But, given the craziness of life today, I wonder if I could do a decent job of raising a kid now? I'm not sure I could do it now, even in The Netherlands. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with that awsome responsibility now. People raising kids today, DO have to deal with that, and also what kind of society they want. That's true in USA, AND every other nation, as well. I think people, in general, have gotten too distracted from dealing with the issues that affect their lives, and accept the "handouts" that their political leaders and the billionaires who run power politics in the World "give" them. I'm not sure if it's going to take bloody revolutions, or just awareness of the masses that Western (World) society is moving in a negative direction, to get things moving back in a positive direction. I've got no right to get criticise, as I'm one of the lazy ones who has accepted the situation, and just tries to get along the best one can. I spent 20 years working to try to save the World's natural environments, banging my head against the wall of greedy international corporations. I voted my conscience, in every country where I'm allowed to vote (including USA). I've signed petitions, and tried to affect local politics. At my advanced age, I'm not willing to dedicate my life to trying to make the World better. That's the situation with most people. But individuals CAN be positive with everyone they meet, and be determined to do RIGHT, regardless of what ALL the other people around them are doing. I believe one has to TRY to do right no matter what the odds against you, or what others are trying to do to you. It's good for one's own character and self image-and even more important when they have children. I think THAT's what Bill Cosby really had in mind. However many more people can do positive things and set positive examples, THAT has to help. Blaming people is irrelevant to accomplishing anything. (Message edited by Robb_K on May 29, 2004) | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 172.147.139.135 |
Robb_K, if you could give such thoughtful, non-judgemental commentary in a forum that actually affords a certain amount of peevish ranting without hurting people, why couldn't Mr. Cosby have done so in a public forum in which there are vultures waiting to take full advantage? I think it's because Mr. Cosby is genuinely concerned, but he's also stuck on himself. | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.180.95 |
I agree, Sudi, that Mr. Cosby could have chosen his words more carefully. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 4-Laureate Username: ~medusa Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.92.30 |
M A Y B E...bill cosby don't have a clue of what it's like to be without, but in due time, he will...it only lasts for a season. He never thought about it may be a baggy pants wearing, broken english speaking person who may have to save his life one of these days. It all comes back around like that ya know...mr. cosby | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 249 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
I have avoided this thread. I have not read all of the news articles. But, I will point out that this rich african american male, of whom I admire for his accomplishments, is not perfect. He has committed adultry, had a child by the woman, which finally came to light. He had his daughter put in jail for trying to exort money from him. Where was he when his son was killed on the side of the road? From the 2-3 sentences I've read, he is saying he should have been there by the side of the road protecting his son. According to him, if you are lower class you are responsible for the tragedy that happens to your children. Also, I believe one of his daughters was on drugs? I know Cosby gives millions of dollars to colleges. (So IRS wouldn't get it) However, the problem lies in the elementary, middle schools, and high schools. That's where it counts. We know how money for the education is maintain in the system. They use it, not for the needy, but for preferencial treatment to their families and friend, and other formal affairs which the lower class cannot afford to attend. I know about it. Some of my friends do it. If Cosby doesn't come back down to reality, he will lose what he has. And guess who is going to take it from him? They will have all of his trophies melted down as if they never existed. They will put him before the media and disgrace him, shame him, destroy him. Now, he reminds me of Booker T. Washington, who was born a slave. After Washington was given the opportunity to succeed, he began criticizing the dialect and status of other former slaves who had not succeeded, or given the opportunity to succeed.. He detested them. Just think about it. How dare he put himself above his own kind simply because he was given a chance. He was a Clarence Thomas. Fame and fortune destroys the true spirit. http://bojack.org/mt-arc/001285.html (Message edited by sis on May 30, 2004) (Message edited by sis on May 30, 2004) (Message edited by sis on May 30, 2004) | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 4-Laureate Username: ~medusa Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.92.30 |
When I was in (NY) Manhattan at this certain resturant, one of his daughters was there at the same time...she looked very unhappy, I was afraid to say anything to her, so I didn't...but she had this look like (and of course I could be wrong again) but itlooked like her eyes were saying "Don't youknow who Iam)?,,,I still didn't say anything...she didn't look approachable to me. | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 82 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 172.148.223.38 |
SisDetroit, Your comments are very much on time. I take Cosby's comments as a cheap shot, and good taste made me refrain from saying that one could take cheap shots at him regarding the death of his son. But your comments brought the issue about his own parenting home without being a cheap shot at all. Bill Cosby has shown a smug, elitist streak for some time. I've tended to want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but what he's doing is not constructive and is arrogant. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 250 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Cosby visits Universities, giving speeches. He attends black-tie affairs where there are socialites, politicians, judges, prosecutors, all of whom do not give dam about the inner-city. He should attend the elementary, middle schools, and high schools, to instill pride into, and motivate those kids who are living in the communities where there are drugs, guns, and killings. Why????? Is he too good for that? Is he too educated to speak to those kids? Will they get him dirty? Does he have too much money. He should have been speaking to those kids, but instead, he was speaking to those who have already made it. I do not attend those high poluting black-tie affairs. They do nothing but talk and mingle, bumping shoulders, net-working. Not trying to find a way to help the community, but to find a way to make more connections to pay for that expensive house. They carry two jobs as well, just to maintain their standard of living so they can go and have an affair, and "talk about" the underprivileged. I went to them when I was younger, hoping to assist and do what I could. I know about it. That's why I stopped going. I learned that they were not connected, but only wanted to feel superior. Not only did I volunteer my time to the youth home, and inner city schools, I was working full time for a government that is full of it, and raising two "boys" alone, being a divorcee. I spent my whole young life raising my boys. Taking them to their little baseball and football leagues, paying for karate classes, teaching them chess, and tennis, going horseback riding with them, explainging to them the civil rights movement, helping them with homework, and going to bed dead tired. What happened? Well, you know the story. I've told it enough. (Message edited by sis on May 30, 2004) | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 4-Laureate Username: ~medusa Post Number: 170 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.81.26 |
Sis, I salute you...there are some (so~called) Fathers who don't do any of that. It feels good, to know you've given and done your best. I used to wonder why a lot of sport figures get on camera and say "Hi Mom" instead of Hi Dad. Now I'm not talking about ALL Dads, just the ones who are not Fathers to their children. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 251 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
I knew I was right when I mentioned that one of Cosby's daughters was on drugs. I tried to find information on it. I did find this. Scroll down to where it says "comments." http://bojack.org/mt-arc/00128 5.html Someone should ask him "How in the heck did that happen?" (Message edited by sis on May 30, 2004) | ||
Lucy (lucy) 1-Arriviste Username: lucy Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.161.95.253 |
I have read all of your posts and ALL of you are so very intelligent.I believe being a parent is the hardest job EVER. We try are best to raise decent human beings.If they turn out that way we are happy,if they don't we are consumed with guilt.I gave up a Corporate Job to stay at home to raise my 2 children.My husband's job required him to be on 24 hour call every other day.Yes,I had to change our way of living.Was it worth it? You bet it was.They both are college graduates and have good jobs. Does my husband regret not being there when he should have been...INDEED HE DOES. It doesn't matter what color we are,we all have the same problems.What we have now,was not given to us,nor inherited.WE WORKED OUR ASSES OFF. Mr. Cosby is a Billionare.I don't agree with everything he says,but I do feel he trys to get the message out of how important an education is. It is not easy raising children especially now. We do the best we can. I agree that Mr. Cosby could have chosen his words more carefully. My Golden rule was"TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED". Again, I commend all of you.Your posts were incredible. | ||
CK (carl) 1-Arriviste Username: carl Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.209.51.238 |
I agree with Mr. Cosby 1000% | ||
Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg) 3-Pundit Username: linda_di_fsg Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.67.197.175 |
A coworker volunteers at a school near our workplace -- it's identified as a high-crime area, and most of these children have witnessed violence or lost a loved one to violence. Only one child in the 4th grade class she works with does not qualify for free breakfast and lunch. So 99%+ of these kids live in poverty. I help her out whenever she needs a hand -- field trips, etc. The average age of the moms is 25 or younger. That means these children were conceived when their moms (and dads?) were in their early to mid teens. These children in the dead of winter often had no gloves, hats or scarves (last year we bought them for the entire class), and I wondered how a parent could let a child outside like that? I recently overheard somebody make the statement that our young people are "procreating themselves into poverty." How true that is. If boys would keep their pants on and girls would keep their knees together, they could work on a future without having to care for a baby -- generally inadquately because they don't have the skills to raise a child because they themselves are children. What I see happening is the discussion becoming Bill and NOT the issues. Perhaps he delivered his message to the wrong audience, perhaps he has no right to say what he said, but regardless, these issues indeed need to be discussed and ... dare I say ... rectified. It simply can not continue as it is. | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 197 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Sis and Medusa, I have also tried to avoid this thread and only gave a very brief take on the subject. I did hear a female commentator give her take on the speech given by Bill Cosby on Sunday Morning. She said, "something is terribly wrong and part of the problem is men". Men who won't wear condoms, rich men and poor men who cheat on their wife and have children(that includes Bill). 68% of African-American children are born to single mothers. Mothers who have to raise these kids without a supportive man in their life. Single mothers do the best they can without very much support from the fathers. | ||
Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg) 3-Pundit Username: linda_di_fsg Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.67.197.175 |
Amen, Vonnie. And it will be a great day when our young women (and women of all ages) have the self-respect, self-confidence and self-love to just say NO to sex without love AND commitment. Often young girls will tell me they got pregnant so they can have something/somebody of their own to love. How sad that is. And that's where I believe we women can do so much good. By mentoring young women one-on-one, we can really change the world. | ||
Sue (sue) 4-Laureate Username: sue Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Slightly off-topic, there's a rather frightening cover story in yesterday's NY Times about the lack of romance amongst teens, who prefer just to "hook up" and then walk away. The girls are clearly getting the short end of this stick, but they need to start asserting themselves. About Bill, in all fairness, I did read in that story that when the issue of this "daughter" was brought up, he said he's been asking for a DNA test but she won't do it. Wouldn't it be to her advantage to prove who she is? | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 252 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Linda Di - You and your friend did a great deed. Going out and seeing for yourselves, and doing what you can to assist at the bottom of the barrel. It starts at the bottom. They have black tie conferences and listen to speeches by so called "important" people. The audience they were speaking of, were not there to hear the elaborate speeches. The speakers pictures gets on the society page, and they get their placques for donating money. Where did the money go? It does not reach where the problem begins. But stays at the top. Sue - I admire Bill Cosby for all those great tv programs he produced. I love the Cosby Show. He is not without fault. Because he is successful and has money does not exonerate him. The fact is, he had an affair while he was married. He did not use protection, putting his wife in danger. The lady got pregnant. He supported the daughter financially during her young life. He could be the father, why else would he want a test. If he isn't the biological father, he is darn near close to it, in the roles he played in both the affair, and financial assistants. He was irresponsible in those roles when he layed down on numerous occasions, and failed to wear protection, putting his wife in jeopardy. Sure, these young people are careless. They don't give a Sh--. With the movies and music videos shown on tv today, promoting sex, violence, and disrespect, you would think this is sanctioned by the system to destroy the minds of the young. Millions of dollars going to the celebraties whose videos are promoting that kind of garbage, motivates the young to act those parts out. Janet showing part of her breast is nothing compared to that. If Cosby is concerned about the dialect of the young, or the innercity disadvantaged, he should sponsor language and speech clinics around the innercity, and support, (if they still exist) the YMCA, and YWCA to sponsor those kinds of clinics. Going around giving speeches to the wealthy won't get it. | ||
Sue (sue) 4-Laureate Username: sue Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Sis, The NY Times story is about all teens, not just disadvantaged teens. I was responding to what Vonnie was saying about young girls -- I feel strongly about how empowering young women is the key to a lot of problems today. As for Bill, I've just seen too many instances where women make false charges against wealthy men. I don't have proof before me so I'll step back and reserve judgment ... (Message edited by Sue on May 31, 2004) | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 253 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Yes, those women will try to take advantage of the famous and the rich. But then, those men put themselves in that situation. I spend more money on my grans than I do myself. I am really good to them. A young lady put my sons name on the birth certificate of her baby. I wrote her a letter and asked her why had she done that when all of us knew he wasn't the father. She said she thought highly of him, and she thought it would be an honor to have his name as the father. (LOL) I told her she had better hurry up and take his name off of that certificate, which would make him legally responsible for the next 20 years. She did, and was angry with me. Heck, I wasn't about to adopt somebody else's baby as my grand. How and where did they get their brains. The only thing I can think of is we fed them pet milk, or semilac, instead of being breast fed as was done in the old days. | ||
Linda Di. (linda_di_fsg) 3-Pundit Username: linda_di_fsg Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.67.197.175 |
Sis -- there is no bottom of the barrel to me. Children (ALL) are the face of God. As long as I have the means to help children, it is my blessing. Sometimes when I walk through the cemetery behind my house - where many of the young men and women killed in the violence in the city are buried - I look at the markers and wonder which of these kids would have cured cancer or brokered world peace had they only had different circumstances. It takes a whole village ... and that includes Dr. Cosby and us. | ||
Sue (sue) 4-Laureate Username: sue Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Sis -- Well that's a compliment to your son, eh? The NY Times mag story doesn't go into economics, and mostly profiled middle-class teens, but I think it's all related. At least when we were teenagers we dated, sheesh. And I thought we lived in less romantic times than say, the 50s, 40s or before. Little did I know. Linda Di, you're so right. No matter what one's politics, it's hard to believe anyone would think an innocent child born into unfortunate circumstances didn't deserve some help. | ||
StingBeeLee (stingbeelee) 1-Arriviste Username: stingbeelee Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.129.8 |
A lot of what SisD says is true about the set up of this society and especially young black people, the society has almost made it it's business to get the young people into some kind of trouble or jail or failure. It is hard, hard, hard to raise kids right. It is not impossible. Single black females have it 10 times as hard to raise kids right, but it can be done, and it is hard. This is what I found out - some of the single parents don't want the hard way, but the easy way to raise a kid. You can't be a kid's friend, you have to be their parent. And I'll say this, which is my opinion regarding black kids; kids have to have some kind of fear of their parents, and the parents have to instill some fear into their children. You have to almost forget about yourself, becasue raising kids by yourself is a full time job. I work at a rec center in Detroit. I have worked with over 5000 kids and am celebrating my 25th year with recreation. I work there for basically peanuts. As far as I know, I'm an expert on kids, especially the urban teenage male, as I am one of the few workers who will deal with them. We have no security at the center, and some kids bring guns in as they please. When I tell people this, they guffaw until I show them our outside doors and all the bulletholes. Kids need God. Kids need guidance. They need discipline. They want parameters and limits. Parents have to do this, or else a disaster is waiting to happen. I know this posting seems scatterbrained, and my mind is going in all directions. Sorry. | ||
ladylove (ladylove) 2-Debutant Username: ladylove Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.130.218.105 |
MAN! I have been avoiding this board.... All I have to say is that I agree with EVERYTHING Mr. Cosby said. the man has given so much to our historically black institutions...he is an institution himself. What is wrong with placing education first and expecting more of our young people and thier parents? Sometimes the truth hurts...and some people don't like the truth. | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 84 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
I agree 100% with what Bill Cosby said, but I disagree 100% with his tone and the manner in which he said it. I especially disagree with what he failed to say. I'm sure that an indictment needs to be leveled at poor and working class blacks for snobbishly turning their noses up at proactive behaviors when they're not in a very good position to be snobs. This is how I see a lot of activities that perpetuate dysfunction. People reject a more productive path because of some kind of warped pecking order and status system that is built around a lot of destructive foolishness. But such things are part of the cross to bear that comes with poverty, and the real problem in my eyes is that there are really far too few people in the so-called Black Community who are really in a position to level such an indictment. Black people of greater means are too unfocused, uncritical of themselves and the outer society, and too caught up in their own warped pecking orders and status systems to be able to cast stones without wrecking their own glass houses. It's not that we should sit around "blaming the white man" as such, but if we did what we should do "the white man" would not necessarily be happy with the result. If we did what we are supposed to do, "the white man" would actually find himself opposed on more issues of substance by a self-determined black powerbase. There would be political battles and casualties, but there would be more of a sense of credible governance in a real Black Community. The perception that Blacks at the "top" were not mere quislings would result in the ability to internally sanction the behavior that Cosby decries and make it stick. People at the "bottom" are more savvy than others like to credit them with being, and there is a certain learned apathy that comes with recognizing that the strongest among you are compromised and weak, while putting on airs of importance. If those of us whom Cosby seems to exclude from his indictment did what we are supposed to do, we would not rely on a media which delights in defaming us across the board for information and entertainment, and we would do whatever is necessary to produce our own mechanisms. This also applies to everything from education to underwear. Those whom Cosby seems to excuse are just as remiss in wasting our substance on Hollywood movies, cognac, over-priced automobiles, clothing, and whatnot as our poorer brethren who buy $500 gym shoes instead of Hooked on Phonics. How much better off would we all be, from the youth trying to overcome poverty to the middle-class investor, if we were more diligent in building our own life-sustaining institutions - institutions that are not beholden to cynical corporate and state interests. There is also the myopic focus on trying to apply "talented tenth" tactics across the board. We focus on college education often with more of an eye toward status and corporate servitude than real development of a knowledge base. While college education is important, we neglect a critical tier of community building that would provide a more stable foundation. Blacks were shoved out of trades during waves of European immigration and have never reentered those trades in truly significant numbers. We're talking about jobs where a person who may struggle with the king's English can still earn enough of a living to make slinging rocks on the corner unattractive and thereby add stability to his entire community. What are those of us who presume to know better doing to open up awareness and access to more "low-brow" opportunities for those of us who would make best use of them? Bill Cosby has done many great things, and to the extent that I would say he has erred, I would say it has more to do with weakness than malice. Bill Cosby from time to time makes remarks that betray the elitism that has crept into his thinking over the years. Black people can't afford elitism. In fact, the United States can't afford the elitism and status-orientation that is so pervasive. Americans will forego material benefit if they feel that, say having too many Black customers or employees, will reduce the prestige of their enterprise. Americans will walk away from $100,000 incomes because of the stigma of running a janitorial business. Black people can least afford to be caught up in this game. On a personal level, Bill Cosby is not expecting more of "our" young people. He's expecting more out of "their" young people, which is OK, except that his self-righteous attitude seems to ignore the fact that he's had plenty of trouble raising his own kids. He's a millionaire and an "institution." What's his excuse? I think that this line of reasoning can become a cheap-shot, but I think Cosby's tone and his ommission of a broader indictment across class lines in as foreceful a tone as that leveled at the poor is a cheap-shot, and is counterproductive. If Cosby had exercised a little more self-control instead of letting his own ego get in the way, the focus might actually be on the issues and not on him. | ||
ladylove (ladylove) 2-Debutant Username: ladylove Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.130.218.105 |
Let me just wrap this whole thing up in a nut shell...since we all are just going to agree to disagree with the man's so called "tone". If it pertains to you...you can go ahead and get defensive....get hurt because "he is just being a big ol meanie..." if it DOESN'T pertain to you..take it for what it is and move on! When I first read it, my first thought was it was friggin time Bill Cosby at least SAID it! I feel bad that he is catching flak for it. Now, Bill is by NO MEANS a conservative, I think he will be a liberal for the rest of his life, however.....if anyone (who is black) happens to have at least one conservative thought..they are considered to be self righteous...demeaning...sell out...conceited...may I go on? What happened to the wonderful liberal concept of free speech..tolerance and diversity?? Is it only considered when we all think alike? If I think the exact opposite of you tolerance goes out the window? Anyway..that's all I have to say about this topic. Back to the music... I try to avoid political topics online since everyone is passionate about their ideas which is GREAT...but sometimes I can FEEL the tension and the blood boiling when touchy issues like this one are discussed! Love you guys anyway!!!!  | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 85 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
I wonder who's actually being defensive. I don't buy into the whole Liberal/Conservative game anyway. I think it's a ruse to keep the masses divided while the intitiated elites reap the benefits and confer benefits on the opinion leaders who play their respective "liberal" or "conservative" roles. The most dangerous operators in this arena are sometimes the "true believers" who play their roles in earnest. I think the solutions lie in the neglected middle. I certainly think it a good suggestion that anyone who is going to react defensively to differning points of view, criticism and passionate debate to the point that they get tense and their blood boils move on and get back to the music. There's no point in getting all upset. | ||
Sue (sue) 4-Laureate Username: sue Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.34.51.20 |
I too believe college is over-emphasized, as if the key in life is to have a professional, white collar job. Not so. Many find joy and fulfilment in a trade, and those jobs have paid well in the past, you could raise a family and have a good life on the pay. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
This country does not practice what it preaches. "What happened to the wonderful liberal concept of free speech..tolerance and diversity??" There is no such animal here in this USA. For it's ok for Cosby to tell the truth, but when another tells the truth about Cosby, it is a cheap shot. The last time I saw Cosby, he was sitting behind and supporting Martha Steward in one of her court hearings, along with Roseanne. When he starts spending his millions on the Middle schools, and the youth who attend those schools, I will shut up. However, if he can dish it out, he can take it. As long as his money is spent in the higher institutions, where the young adults and their parents have been strong enough to make it there, and does not trickle down to where the problems is, then the youths of New York and California will continue to talk in their own different dialect, of which Cosby may not understand, but they understand each other. (Message edited by sis on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by sis on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by sis on June 01, 2004) | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
Sis Detroit, I have used the term "cheap shot" repeatedly, but I in no way mean that your criticism of Bill Cosby is a cheap shot. I agree with you. I much more think that Cosby is the one taking a cheap shot. In the sports realm, a cheap shot is a hit that is legal but takes unsporting advantage of a defenseless opponent. The fact that there is truth to what Cosby said makes his comments no less a cheap shot. If there were no truth to them, they wouldn't be a cheap shot, they'd simply be foul play. I find that the reason Cosby has become the focus and not the issue is because of the easy advantage his remarks take of obvious targets. He's railing at the symptom and not the disease. There's a saying that a chicken (or fish) rots from the head down. The "bottom" of the Black "community" - to the extent that there is a black community with all the fragmentation and finger pointing - is a symptom of ineffectiveness and even disloyalty at the "top." If I suddenly found myself dictator of Black people in the U.S. (God forbid), I might publicly flog some of the people Cosby is talking about, but they would neither be the only nor the first people flogged. I've spoken at length about some of the other potential floggees above, and Cosby's previous altruism might spare him a flogging, but he wouldn't be out of the woods. Hell, I might have to have myself flogged to be fair. I don't find your criticism of Cosby to be a cheap shot at all. I think it is pointed but measured criticism based on the facts. You're not hanging him out unsolicited in public. Cosby is free to speak the truth, the half-truth or whatever it is. People are free to rally to his support. But, so are people free to disagree with and even criticize him. I think the critics have given him more credit than he's giving others, so I don't see where it's unfair. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 256 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Sudi Kamau - | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1267 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
What it finally comes down to is this: Except for a few things, Bill has said nothing that we "POORER" folks haven't said to one another. He echoed a lot of what many of us think & feel. HOWEVER, I would like to have heard his ENTIRE statement, as opposed to a few choice sentences that were pruned out for effect. I also would have preferred to see some balance within his statements. I acknowledge that the patient is ill. I would like to hear a little more thought given as to WHY the patient is ill. It's so easy to blame the parent, yada yada tada. That's a cop-out. There are some excellent parents, loving parents whose children have turned out rotten. I can't take credit for this one, so in the words of ISAIAH: "REMEMBER COLUMBINE"????? I guess that those parents were the following: A) POOR (Hmm, not I as recall the story) B) IGNORANT (Hmm, that doesn't ring a bell) C) BLACK (DON"T THINK SO) D) SINGLE PARENT HOUSEHOLD (doubt it) SOOOOOO, what are we to make of that. I would say that there's more to the problem than being poor or a minority. What were these "misguided" childrens excuse for their actions??? They fit none of the demographics that Mr Cosby named. What about the "Gothic" kids & the children that participate in cults & rituals & maim & in some cases, murder?? What about the kids with silver spoons who practice brutal hazings rituals, where some have died? Do they have horrible parents?? Are they Poor??? Not from what I've read. While I share Bills' frustration, what he should have done is called out ALL of America. Our current culture is fraught with excess: sex, violence, greed. This is a societal problem, which is only exacerbated by the condition of those who are indigent, lacking the tools to compete with their more economically stable counterparts. I'm not going to state the proven statistics regarding lack of school funding for education & arts such as music, etc. Anyone who doesn't see the correlation between the economic disparity between the haves & have nots & the social problems that it's led to, is either in denial or dumb as hell. All of these children, from the ghettos of Compton, to the slums of Brooklyn, to Columbine, are nothing more than societys' children. It's like the portrait of Dorian Grey, all of the ugliness of the deception & undercover dirty tactics are revealing itself in our children. They're nothing but a mere reflection of what society has become as a whole. If you don't want to deal with the symptoms of the disease, damnit, get rid of the root cause. Anything is just flapping ones' lips in the breeze & transferrence of blame. The hypocracy is sickening! (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) | ||
Eva (bigswede2002) 3-Pundit Username: bigswede2002 Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.226.54.68 |
Very well spoken as usual, Juicefree! As a matter of fact, I really appreciate the insights this thread has given me and all the thoughtful comments from various points of view. I'm sure that much of what has been written here could very well apply to the current situation in many European countries as well. Hope to return with some of my own thoughts later on. Also, I have to say that it's refreshing to see that such "off-topic" discussions are allowed and encouraged on Soulful Detroit-on most other music forums I know, there would have been loud complaints about mixing politics and music! Eva | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1269 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hi Eva, Thank you for the kind words. You have made a very good point that many of us Americans miss. This is not simply an "American" problem, nor, is it a "poor" problem. Some of the most heinous crimes are perpetrated by some very "religious" folks. Not all of them are of the lower strata either. What would motivate children, young adults & adults, to strap bombs onto their bodies & become walking bombs??? Is that due to poverty, ignorance, lack of Nikes & designer wear??? There is a problem that runs deeper than the surface issues that are constantly addressed. This type of greedy, selfish, violent & lustful behavior is not indigineous to the good old USA. This mentality is pervasive WORLD WIDE!!! If it hasn't already visited, it will appear soon at a country near you. This behavior can be explained away however people choose. What it boils down to is the following: A) A lack of REAL love for ourselves & one another. B) A lack of respect for ourselves & one another C) A lack of tolerance for others D) A total over-inflation of our own self importance And Most importantly: E) A total lack of TRUE belief in a Supreme Being & the consequences of our actions This is not true for all of us. There are many people who do try to love thy neighbor & do unto others. Judging from all of the strife, you'd have to admit that there are too many people who do not. Most distressing is the fact that so many people place their faith in the very institutions who are guilty of perpetuating said fraud. BLIND FAITH at that!! Meanwhile......... The band plays on!! (Message edited by Juicefree20 on June 01, 2004) | ||
ralph (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 319 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Eva, Not only do we allow, but we encourage off-topic threads, as long as an interest is shown. | ||
Soul Sister (soul_sister) 6-Zenith Username: soul_sister Post Number: 633 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.21.244.254 |
Hey Juice; Amen. Always the voice of reason, reality, & truth. I have a great deal of respect for you for that and you still have a great sense of humor . Just wanted to say thanks for being you Juice. Your mother must have been an incredably wonderful woman to raise a fine son like you. Now don't go blushing on me and don't let it go to your head, LOL, stay just like you are, our "Juice"!....... In Your Corner Champ, S.S. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1277 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Aw shucks S.S. Thank You for your kind words. I won't speak for me, but MOM IS WONDERFUL!!! What a lady Hey, how do you make a "red-faced" blushing smiley anyway???? I guess that this will have to do  Thanks again S.S. | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 5-Doyen Username: robb_k Post Number: 348 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.30.222 |
Great Post Juice! Your A - E points put it all in a nutshell. It was more or less what I said or meant to say, but I put it in about 10,000 words, including lots of tangents. With the World Economy, we've got one community. It's a World problem. The adults have to be responsible, and solve their problems. The egotistical, power-hungry, meek, self-righteous, wise, poor, rich, -everyone has to get their act together and do what they can, responsibly, to change the direction we're going. If MOST of the people do their share, it can work. People have to decide for themselves to be less selfish, and think about future generations, and not just their own comforts. If the bulk of the people wait too long, things will get a lot worse, before they get better. For the most part, humans are procrastinators. They wait the roof is caving in. We know the super-wealthy power elite will not lift a finger to change conditions until their own situation is precarious. By then, it's always too late. So, it's up to the masses to stand up for what is right. Personally, I'm optimistic about the long, long term. But, I don't think any of us living will see those times. I'm afraid that strife will get a whole lot worse before it gets better. I hope I'm wrong. There are a lot of people in "The First World" who have no idea how bad things can get. | ||
Soul Sister (soul_sister) 6-Zenith Username: soul_sister Post Number: 636 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.21.244.254 |
Juice; Thats so sweet) : S.S. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 5-Doyen Username: ~medusa Post Number: 176 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.97.55 |
Ralph, Would you, could you explain exactly what you meant, when you said this~~~~~? "Not only do we allow, but we encourage off-topic threads, as long as an interest is shown" I'd appreciate it if you would. Thanx! | ||
ladylove (ladylove) 2-Debutant Username: ladylove Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.130.218.105 |
Dang Juice! Everyone is right..you write so beautifully!! Can I hire you to write my obituary??? | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 5-Doyen Username: ~medusa Post Number: 177 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.114.77 |
Juice, Can I hire U 2 write my Wedding Vows? (LOL) | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1280 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hi everyone! Again, you flatter me too much ladylove: Thank you very much. I'm tearing up over here, you're too kind! No, I will not write your obituary, as I fully expect you to live a long & fruitful life. I'll write your secret love letters to one of The Tavares though. It'll be hard for to write from a womans' perspective though. I'll be your ghost writer Medusa: You would never have to hire me to write anything. Your money's no good here! It would be a pleasure to write your vows.......................... .............................. .............................. .............................. ........................just as long as you MARRY ME & NOT 1WICKED!!!!!! No lol, I'm laughing my friggin' bronze buttocks off, LOL couldn't describe my laughter. Perhaps an new acronym is in order: LMFBBO,WROFIH, which translated means: Laughing my freakin' bronze buttocks off, while rolling on the floor in hysterics!!! Err, aahh, still want to hire me cutie????? | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 201 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 149.174.164.24 |
Medusa, You're torturing Juice by asking him to write your wedding vows. Check out the picture that is posted on the Soulful Detroit Anonymous 3 thread. He's so upset he has not combed his hair in weeks. Medusa, "Stop in the Name of Love". LOL | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 257 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Yikes!!!! Vonnie - I just looked under Anonymous 3. I've seen that character somewhere. Was it behind bars. (LOL) | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 5-Doyen Username: ~medusa Post Number: 179 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.121.135 |
AWW Shucks! In that case~ I'll marry you, but who's gonna write OUR marriage vows? ( L O L ) | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
I can kind of understand why people strap bombs on themselves. That's a matter of the lesser fighting the greater - evening the score so that the lesser's women and children don't have to face the greater's professional soldiers and war machinery while the greater's women and children are safe at home. It usually happens when the greater insists on some kind of divine right to ride herd over the lesser in the lesser's own living room. What I have a much harder time understanding is fat, comfortable people finding it noble to climb into planes and blow the limbs off of children in places that never did a damned thing to them. I figure those people are as or more likely to turn their bizarre hatred against me than any bomb-laden taxi driver, especially when they have a long history of doing so. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1285 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Sudi!! TOUCHE' & TOUCHE' | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1286 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Well Golly Gee Medusa, I'll still write them. Though I'm a man of few words (COUGH,COUGH,COUGH!!!), I think I'd be able to put something together  | ||
ralph (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 322 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Medusa, what didn't you understand about my post baby? Where else can you go that a serious subject such as the Cosby Controversy slowly morphs into a Son Of ERGGH thread. What a place!! | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 5-Doyen Username: sis Post Number: 258 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.211.240 |
Why hasn't Kobe Bryant's parents been seen in public, speaking on his behalf, since he has been charged? It is because they did everything right towards him. Preparing him for his career. What happened? He did the unthinkable, and went against his home training. Was it the fault of his parents? I'm not saying that he is guilty of the charges. Just that he put himself in that position. (And is probably not the first time.) (Message edited by sis on June 02, 2004) (Message edited by sis on June 02, 2004) | ||
Sudi Kamau (sudi_kamau) 4-Laureate Username: sudi_kamau Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.117.198.35 |
Just fanning the embers, Juice. |
