| Author | Message | ||
  GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 362 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
Grand Day All, Here's hoping everyone always loves "Hot Buttered Soul - Music." I was in Germany when the aforementioned album came out. Oh My God - how we loved Issac's "Hot Buttered Soul" album. We were mesmerized and so excited about it. "I Stand Accused" was the bomb. And "When I Get To Phoenix" was also an Outstanding arrangement. Issac was one of if not the first artist to take a song and make it last over 10 minutes. LOL! Yet surely - the "Shaft" album took us to another level. It was one of the first soundtrack albums that blew many of us away - and it was before "Superfly." Now folks know how much I love Curtis. I could go on - but let me just reiterate how bad his "Superfly" album was. We all felt that one too. I know - at times it is useles to try to decipher which this or that was best - but we do have our favorites. Which of these albums touched you the most? They both were so monumental - indeed. http://www.isaachayes.com/ http://www.wsws.org/articles/2 000/jan2000/curt-j24.shtml http://myhero.com/myhero/hero. asp?hero=c_mayfield I'm just a "Little Chile' Runnin' Wild." LOL! | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 153 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.34.39 |
Holy Smoke, the MOTHA of all questions!!!! GoGoGirl, I tellya, you come with some smokas! How does one choose between a Picasso and an Rembrandt(Mo' Money!!)? Both of these albums were,and still are, AWESOME! Can you clarify what you mean by "Monumental & Sensational?" The Shaft album took home some awards, and so did the Superfly album, and I think both of 'em are groundbreaking soundtracks... I guess it come down to whom your favorite artist is between these two... I choose Curtis and Superfly.... I love the Superfly albums SOUL, its percussion, its lyrical genius, and its message... Pure genuis! Peace! Isaiah | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 364 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Hey Zaya. LOL! What I meant was that they were monumental in scope and timing. And they were sensational to many of our senses. They were - Fresh - Innovative - Timely - Timeless - Complete - and Coveted. Many of us were thrilled with the discovery of them. Were we not? "I JUst Want To Testify." LOL! Anyway - I respect your "Choice Of Colors." Right On! I'll holler. I'm out the door to the (as some folks here in Bamaland still say - stoe' (store). LOL! | ||
Kdubya (paladin) 6-Zenith Username: paladin Post Number: 413 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 152.132.8.197 |
This is rather simple for me : Superfly ....hands down. I was in the street and it was about the street. Shaft was cool, no doubt but Superfly was close to home, while Shaft was Shaft. Now The Hot Buttered Soul of Walk On By and Phoneix was well bedroom stuff, great albums all. Great question too, but I dam near got confused about your post...... Kdub | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 216.148.246.92 |
Yeah, Kdub, Curtis was delivering a stone cold philosophical street treatise, and Ike was doing a pretty, funky film score... Superfly just has more meat, more substance, more variety, and much more soul... Shaft has a nice variety, too, particularly where Ike goes Jazz on Ellie, and Funk on Do Your Thing, but the album - compared to Superfly - is really shallow and weak musically, as well as lyrically... Ike's my man, but CurtieMay's my boy, and I bought both of these joints, so I aint complaining about either...(smile!) Peace! Isaiah | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 369 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Zeke - I think "Shaft" was more monumental because it was first. If not for that soundtrack - then Curtis might not have been given the opp to serve up the soundtracks for "Claudine" & "Superfly." I would "Pay To The Piper." And that piper was Issac - because he was the first one to go all the way - where - there - for real. LOL! Now for sensational - "Superfly" might fly - but then again - in Germany - we were very impressionable, and since we had never heard anything like the "Hot Buttered Soul" album before - I would even choose that one over the album titles in the thread title. My God - "Walk On By" was 18 minutes long. LOL! We loved that joint. Just hearing that album - made us young ladies feel more sophisticated and what not. LOL! I have always stated that - I couldn't decide which "Walk On By" I loved the most. Smokey's - Dionne's or Issac's. They were all sweet and tight in their own right - and I loved them all. But now in retrospect - and since contemplating it again - and because of the innovation contributed to Issac's version - I will now choose his as my all time fave. LOL! Too much! Now let me go find it. If I don't have it - I shall have to cop that bad boy. LOL! (Message edited by gogogirl on October 13, 2004) | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2841 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
While I believe that Superfly is superior & funkier overall, I would have to choose Shaft. For the very reasons that Go Go stated. I have to go along with Isaiah & Kdub, as far as the depth & sheer funkiness of Superfly. The lyrical imagery that Superfly evoked was real & spoke the truth. A truth that America simply din't want to acknowledge or hear. All of that notwithstanding, Issac's cinematic opus was like nothing that came before it. That was the soundtrack that showed that yes, a Black man could mix straight out Funk, Jazz, Soul, Blues & still appeal to America. Before that, no Soul man was even considered to score a film, much less to create one so masterful as Shaft. Issac's success & skilled arrangements & its mass acceptance, kicked down the walls for the cinematic Soul men. For the doors that he opened & the many Soul men who followed because of him, I have to pick Shaft. | ||
Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone) 4-Laureate Username: funkyone Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.150.166.27 |
It almost hurts to say this as "I Like Ike",but I would have to choose Superfly over Shaft. If it were not for Cutis Mayfields soundtrack,the movie would have had a completly different message.It was through his brilliant lyrics that balance was brought to the film. I guess now I will have to take my Black Moses LP cover off the wall and turn in all my Shaft lobby cards and posters now!LOL Isaac can throw down a groove and a half,butI find Mayfield's words more powerful. | ||
Jim G (jim_g) 3-Pundit Username: jim_g Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.47.224.13 |
Don't forget that pianist Johnny Allen arranged much of the music for "Shaft". He and Isaac Hayes worked together on some other material as well. | ||
Gary (gary) 5-Doyen Username: gary Post Number: 219 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.73.238.2 |
"Shaft" is probably more significant in that, as many of you have already stated, it was so well done and it came first therefore, Isaac Hayes paved the way for all that followed. But, to me anyway, "SuperFly" is a better piece of work from a musical standpoint. In other words, if you pulled out both albums and told me to pick one to listen to right now, 8 out of 10 times I'd pick "Superfly". BTW, don't forget my man Quincy Jones scored a s--- load of movies that pre-date "Shaft" and "SuperFly" by several years. Check out some of those soundtracks, they are excellent. | ||
Kdubya (paladin) 6-Zenith Username: paladin Post Number: 414 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 152.132.8.197 |
Gary you are so correct in giving Q his props, but what I find most interesting about Shaft and Superfly was that they were non traditional soundtracks that changed the way we felt about movie music. Sure every once in a while a soundtrack tune became popular like "Pink Panther" but no one ever captured the flava and funk of a movie like Shaft and Superfly. These brothers changed the game. Great posts and appropriate insight from everyone on this thread..... | ||
Gary (gary) 5-Doyen Username: gary Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.73.238.2 |
Exactly right Kdub, Quincy's work was definitely more mainstream and the soundtracks he composed were mostly for traditional Hollywood movie productions. The soundtrack he did for "In Cold Blood" was somewhat of a departure from that formula. Curtis and Isaac delivered a whole new perspective and nothing else was the same after that. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2846 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hi all! For the reasons that both Kdub & Gary gave, I didn't list Quincy. Quincy didn't open those doors for the Soul men. Issac kicked the door open & Kurtis bum rushed it afterwards. I guess that put in military terms, Issac was like the Marines & Kurtis was the Army's ground troops that kicked much azz! | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 167 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.135 |
GoGoGirl, Gary, and Juice, thanks for the clarification on monumental and sensational, and what is conveyed by those words... The light bulb like came on when GoGoGirl mentioned "First" as a reason for selecting Isaac's Opus(thanks Juice!)as being more monumental... No doubt, I can only but agree with that... Ike 'bout broke open the door for Curtis, making the whole idea of Soul Soundtracks the phenomenon that they became... In fact, looking at the '70's, it's mindblowing how many of the truly great soundtracks of that period are by Soul Artists... In fact, the soundtracks are, by now, more famous than the films the were scored for... I know folks are still our there buying the vids and dvds of Trouble Man and Superfly and Across 110th Street, but how many more are buying the cds of Sparkle, Claudine, Shaft, Superfly, and The Mack? It could be safely said, then, that Ike actually created a phenomenon with Shaft, and so to say his album was the more monumental of the two - No Doubt... Great Insights by each and every person not named Isaiah on this thread...(smile!) I really enjoyed reading the flow of it, peops... Rap on... Peace! Isaiah | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 377 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Great perspectives. I'm sure some read up on Isaac's Bio. Goodness gracious but didn't he write - arrange and play for many of the wonderful artists out of STAX and Memphis. I had heard about his props some before - but not to that extent. W/o Issac back then - then........... And yes - one has to credit a pioneer in any field - because w/o that first one - may haps others would not have followed, nor even had a clue. I loved Curtis's Superfly though. And although Shaft was first - Superfly was also groundbreaking. See - Curtis covered things that no others had done before - so he was a first too. Take "Fred Is Dead" for instance. I was in college at the time - and we were completely blown away by that song because drugs were so prevalent back then. It did get many of us to thinking. I was puffing away back then and tried acid and the like - I must admit. One lives and they learn for sure. I remember one time - we went to North Carolina for the CIAA basketball championships. At the hotel - I was talked into doing cocaine for the first time (My arm wasn't twisted though). But...........it turned out to be herion. I should have known - for the guy that turned me on was being talked about that he did herion. Anyway - we went to the game after that and we walked to the top of the arena (The man that had the herion wasn't with us then). We had seats a little further down - so I don't know why we walked all the way up. Just as we were to ascend down - I became a little unstable on my feet and almost went into a nod. I almost fell down. LOL! I finally mentioned it to someone that I was with - and was told that what I snorted was most likely herion. I was too fit to be tied - and got very angry with the guy that had intentionally mislead me. I shouldn't have been doing it anyway - and needless to say - I learned my lesson. I never did any of those two drugs again. I learned from Curtis's album that doing hardcore drugs could get one dead like Fred. It was an eye opening experience for all of us - for real. Back then that was the culture of a lot of campuses. A lot of us experimented w/drugs at that time - but not all of course. Again - that album was also monumental no question - and it most def fit the times. It woke a lot of us up. And for that - I will always be thankful to Curtis Mayfield. And - I remembered that one of my best friends died the year before from a herion overdose. One of my all time faves from the "Superfly" album was - "Gimme' Your Love." My God! Was there a harp being played all up in that piece? LOL! Anyway - they both were great - but I still give the edge to Issac. Matter-of-fact - he won all kinds of awards behind it. And even if he hadn't - the masses would have still loved and appreciated the album "Shaft." "Shut Your Mouth" And Richard Roundtree was fine too. I'll holler back. I am off to the dentist in a few. Later. (Message edited by gogogirl on October 14, 2004) | ||
Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone) 4-Laureate Username: funkyone Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.221.81.99 |
Of course some say the real pioneer who created the model for that type of soundtrack was Melvin Van Peebles with Earth,Wind & Fire.Others say it goes back further to Booker T & The MG's for the movie Uptight. I just try to imagine if these movies would have been the same without the music and words of these talented artists and Curtis is the only example I have found of someone that was able to change the message of a movie through his score. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 5-Doyen Username: isaiah Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 170.224.224.92 |
Dollar Bill, I frankly had the same conception of things, as Curtis album is close to the heart for me, but in terms of breaking some ground, Shaft had to be considered the most monumental... It is the only such soundtrack to have won an academy award, in that it kind of stands alone... Now, as far as the music-listening, record-buying public is concerned, that's another matter, right??? Curtis fills that Superfly album chock fulla street life, and nothing can touch it except a whole cache of G&H albums... Like a friend of mine told me, folks sleep the album because of the production - if they aren't careful(smile!) But when the lyrical power becomes synthesized with the production, you know it's much more than just a soundtrack... As for changing the message of the movie through the score, you'll have to explain that one to me, because as I understand it, the movie and soundtrack were all about the same message... Peace! isaiah | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2848 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hi everyone! One other thing occurs to me as we discuss these two LPs. While Shaft was more cinematic in sound, I believe that what makes Superfly so powerful is its realism. I used to see guys like Freddie & Priest by the tens, in those days. Back then, we did have fellas going into a nod on the sidewalks of New York. We had plenty of fellas like Priest riding around in their 225s, Cadillacs & El Dorados, all dressed up in tailor made Gabardine suits. On the other hand, I never saw a Black private eye, much less a cop, get away with spitting in the faces of his White counterparts, much less a superior. Shaft was more of a Black hero as fantasy, taking it to the man. In reality, Bumpy & his fellas would have most likely blew Shaft to bits. That's if the cops didn't get to Shaft first. On a visceral level, it was cool to see a Brother take it to the man & win. On some levels psychologically, many of us in the hood needed to see that. However, it wasn't true to the game. Superflys power lies in the truths that it spoke. So, while I do give the nod to Shaft, Superfly wins hands down as regards truth & the overall messages that lie therein. Funky, I agree on some level with those who mention Melvin & Booker T. The primary differences are that SweetBack was a low budget indy film, that had little impact outside of the hood. It's message was also a bit too abstract & when you think about it, that film was pretty much based on watching our hero run from house to house in the hood. I found it to be a bit unrealistic, though groundbreaking. As far as Uptight is concerned, the soundtrack, nor the movie made any true impact with us. It didn't resonate as loudly with us like Shaft & Superfly did. Issac & Curtis just set it off & those two movies & soundtracks & movies will remain with us forever. Superfly even moreso! | ||
Cool Ju (cool_ju) 4-Laureate Username: cool_ju Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Superfly!!! Anybody hear the re release that came out year fo' last with the extra tracks? It's great! | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 5-Doyen Username: isaiah Post Number: 183 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 216.148.246.156 |
Cool Ju, Yes! And it is beautiful, with the instrumentals and all... I think that was the 25 year edition, or something, no??? Peace! Isaiah | ||
Galactus (galactus) 3-Pundit Username: galactus Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 207.144.253.114 |
Been awhile since I've posted, but I had to answer this one! Being a huge Curtis fan, I gotta give the edge to "Superfly" (though I actually like "Short Eyes" even more).....but it really depends on what type of music I'm in the mood for. Despite the fact that the two albums are almost always mentioned together, they really are very different. Hayes' work is a masterpiece of jazz and soul combined, while Curtis combines soul and funk in an equally masterful way.....and hints at jazz ocassionally. Definitely a tough call. Fortunately, we're allowed to own both!!  | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 387 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa! Galactus is back. Hey Ga-lac-tus. I missed you. What has been up with you down there in South Cacalaki? I hope all is well with you and yours. I dig your take on the question bro. Let me start my pot of beans - season the chicken - and I'll come back and elaborate more on this topic later. LOL! | ||
Galactus (galactus) 3-Pundit Username: galactus Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 207.144.253.114 |
Oh.....I've been super busy with freelance cartooning work in addition to my day job.....Got into some self publishing venture at one point, very little free time for awhile there...Then it took me forever to get logged ono the new forum........I'm cool now, though! Thanks for asking! SC is good....we dodged the hurricane season and all is A-OK! Went to my high school reunion (20 years!) in August, and we all talked about Rick James' death.....James was huge during my HS days. Getting cold up that way yet? | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 392 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Galactus - I am so glad to hear that you all are alright. Thanks for getting back. I hope all of your great cartoon work brings you the joy and satisfaction you crave. You go boy! Such creative people contribute to this forum - for real. Just don't stay away so long next time ok. Plus - we don't know how long we all have left to enjoy this medium called the Internet. LOL! I appreciate your take on the two albums - and I agree that the choice is unique and tough - indeed. Let me correct an error I put out there. "By The Time I Get To Phoenix" was the 18 minute long jam. "Walk On By" was 12 minutes. LOL! There must have been a serious reason why Issac was asked to do the soundtrack for "Shaft." LOL! I wonder whom else was approached if anyone. I doubt anyone else was approached. The fact that Ike came out w/Hot Buttered Soul - won the day for him I'd bet. That is why he was asked. So - I suppose - because of HBS - he was asked if he was up to the task of delivering the soundtrack for "Shaft." He was up to the task indeed. Quincy was know for his orchestrated type soundtracks - and I loved him for it too. Can we not hear the orchestra type sound in Ike's HBS? Yes - we can. That joint was bad! Most likely - he took a little bit from Q. Anyway - I still say that Ike's was more monumental because he took us there. I think because of Issac's success w/Shaft - Curtis said to himself - "ok - let me ensure I come out the gates swingin' on "Superfly" because Ike done raised the bar." LOL! What think y'all. LOL! (Message edited by gogogirl on October 15, 2004) | ||
Galactus (galactus) 3-Pundit Username: galactus Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 207.144.253.114 |
Yeah....I've often listend to Hayes' work that came out prior to "Shaft" and wondered, "which tune sealed the deal for him and Gordon Parks?" You wonder what Parks heard that made him say, "I gotta go GET that guy!" lol.... Yeah, no doubt "Hot Buttered Soul" scored some serious points. The compositions on that masterpiece are incredible. I've made a few people big fans of that album by playing it for them. My Isaac collection is pretty near complete, but I'm still missing "Presenting Isaac Hayes," but from what I've read about it, it's pretty cool too. Likewise, if you listen to Curtis' stuff prior to "Superfly" (the albums "Curtis," "Curtis Live" and "Roots", for example), you'll hear that he was already "Superflyin'" when "Superfly" wasn't cool, so to speak!! | ||
Don (don) 6-Zenith Username: don Post Number: 971 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.48.207 |
Wouldn't it be swell if these movies Shaft and Superfly we're played back to back! | ||
Don (don) 6-Zenith Username: don Post Number: 973 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.48.207 |
I had to come back to this thread and post. It's like ESP when you all spoke of Isaac Hayes' Shaft and Curtis Mayfield's Superfly movie sdtrks. IMO, Shaft was more of a action hero type, a PI solving a kidnapping. Which was a good story for a movie to some degree. But Superfly, was much real in term of the real deal. For the past few days Hot Butter Soul, Shaft, Superfly, What's Going On, Claudine and Let's Do It Again has been playing constant on my CD player non stop. |
