| Author | Message | ||
  mike s (mike_s) 5-Doyen Username: mike_s Post Number: 211 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.7 |
Just got the latest edition of Motown Chatbusters, a longrunning fairly glossy mag run by Motown enthusiasts here in the UK...and there's a somewhat astonishing and disappointing article about the Funk Bros. Apparently the magazine's editor arranged an interview with the band when they played Manchester. The interview never took place even though the editor and colleagues waited outside the theatre for hours.He says they were rude and arrogant, Joe Messina apart. After the concert, a group of fans were waiting outside the theatre stage door when Uriel Jones is said to have "barked for security to get these people out of my way". The magazine says they have never been treated this way before by any Motown artists. The mag is recognised by the Motown Alumni Association. The Funks' ex-manager was interviewed afterwards and said that the Funks had refused any portion of their concert fees to go to the widows fund... Seems like this was part of the parting of ways between the band and their management. Sad to see it so acrimonious. | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 319 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 172.143.134.29 |
Mike, I'm sorry to hear this type of report  . However, in all fairness, we do not what happened behind the scenes. There may have been some things that happened to which we have do not have privy. For example, these are some of the scenarios that I know have taken place behind the scenes. The band may have already negotiated on a set performance price, however; before they were set to perform the promoter tells them the fees will have to be cut because of poor ticket sales. Another scenario, the venue may not have been up to snuff, sound quality not up to par etc... I have been to shows where The Funks performed and they were always gracious and hospitable, this was probably an anomaly. I hope those who felt slighted will give them the benefit of doubt and not judge them based upon what took place that night. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 845 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.249.45.54 |
...and as much as these Gentlemen have been on the road, I' sure they just maybe "TIRED". As Vonnie has said in so many words, we never really know the whole story. Since this is the first time that it's reported that the FB's acted this way, ("IF" this is true), it causes me to believe that something really went wrong...other than what's been reported...These Guys love their fans, and this seem way out of character for the FB's. It probably didn't even go down like that amyway... | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 700 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
The FB's are always so courtous and friendly. They must have been really mad. However, there is no excuse for being rude to the fans. Totally out of their character. Although the majority of artist are rude to fans. | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.77.122.250 |
Medusa if this is true Iwill tell you Its true Iwas there,Uriel Jones was the rudest person i have ever met his remark to security to move those people away was a disgrace,the same people who had just spent 30 pound each to see them,so no one any where be it in the USA or the UK can tell me different I WAS THERE.Dave Leedham. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 701 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Soulman - I am so sorry to hear that. On behalf of Detroit let me offer an apology. Europe has some of their most loyal fans. It will be difficult to get the FB's back in the good graces with them. I guess we will know soon enough why, but no excuse is good enough for their actions towards the fans. | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 3-Pundit Username: benlynx Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.77.156.246 |
As a funk brothers fan here in the u.k. and have been for most of my life, i will just put it down to one bad night. I remember how many years they themselves had been let down by their industry, not just Motown. Aren't they human beings Soulman? Aren't they entitled to one bad day in all these years? I respect your views on this, even if they are slightly over the top. Also, haven't the magazine tried getting in touch again before they published? I feel in the fullness of time, the funks once calmed down will realise what happened, and things will be put right. This night was not like them at all. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 703 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Soulman - How can I get a copy of the lastest issue of that magazine? Can I get any help other than to contact the company? I just want to read about the FB's. http://www.chatbusters.com/ | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 4-Laureate Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 164 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
Soulman: I'm also sorry to read about this because the Motown fans in the U.K. have really kept this music alive, it's very hard to believe they would treat U.K. fans in this matter. as Vonnie posted I sure hope something happened there that we don't know about, otherwise it just might be a case of success going to their heads, but I sure hope there's some other reason. | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.77.69.106 |
Raymond i respect your point of view as well,but my views slightly over the top,so you know the whole story NOT,did you wait about for over 2 hours when promised by Alan Slutsky you would be allowed to take photos for various magazines and fanzines which by the way promote and publicize them free of charge,and if you read the article you would have seen they did get in touch with Alan Slutsky,and by the way i too am a Funk Brother fan and a Motown fan of 40 years. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 170.224.224.156 |
FUNKBROTHERS FOREVER!!!!(smile!) So you're saying my boy Uriel was rude, huh??? Well, brother was probably a little frustrated, but I wont apologize for his behavior... If he was rude, he was wrong, but he deserves your forgiveness, as any good man does... I'm sure that given another opportunity to meet and greet his fans, he would remember these events, and be ever the gracious star(smile!) Like Medusa and Vonnie said, perhaps, he was just having a terrible day... Peace! isaiah | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.77.69.106 |
Isaiah i dont recollect any one asking you to apologize for Uriel,all i am saying is manners cost nothing and whats with the Huh business we are lying are we,well we are not. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.167 |
Hey, Dave, firstly, I didn't apologize for Uriel's behavior, I said I wouldn't apologize if he was, in fact, rude... Secondly, I don't ask NO ONE for permission to speak my opinion Dave, understand??? Comprende??? Thirdly, you saw where I called you or anyone else a LIAR??? You point it out to me! Peace! isaiah | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 847 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 155.139.68.10 |
Isaiah, Now you see how quickly things can get distorted, MISread, and MISunderstood?... This is not the first time, and it wont be the last time that this kind of (alleged) occurance has happened with celebrities. I think they'll get over it. | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.76.98.101 |
Isaih so i got it wrong on the first count the apology thing as for the second statement i dont recollect any one mention permission on speaking their opinion and thirdly i asked the question are we lying i dont know about the USA but in this country the way you put the huh into the statement deems one to being untrue,Im not going to get involved in a slagging message i just write as i saw .Peace Dave. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 143 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 216.148.246.156 |
Medusa, I will move on...(shaking my head) It has been a very hectic last couple of days at SDF(smile!) Peace! Isaiah | ||
Rik Williams (rik) 1-Arriviste Username: rik Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 217.42.229.30 |
Hi everyone, my name is Rik and I edit Chatbusters Motown magazine. I interviewed Allan Slutsky and wrote the article about the Funk Brothers. My experience with the Brothers at their concert in Manchester was added at the end of the interview because it echoed the way they have treated a guy (Allan Slutsky), who has spent a major part of his life promoting their cause. I did write a full review of our Manchester experiences but it was never printed because, at the time, we thought it could have been an off day for them. It would be nice to think these guys are gracious and good mannered. I waited for eight hours outside the concert hall in below zero temperature with two colleagues to attend a pre-arranged interview. They were not courteous (Joe Messina apart), were rude to the extreme and very bad mannered. I really suggest you read the full article before passing comment. Soulman, you have every right to get upset. You were there and witnessed the events with me. Common courtesy costs nothing. The UK is welcoming the Velvelettes and the Miracles later this month. I doubt these two great groups will treat us the way we were treated by the Funk Brothers and I challenge Uriel, Jack, Bob, Joe and Eddie to come on to this forum and apologise for their outrageous behaviour. | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.79.13.154 |
At The End Of The Day It Just Boils Down To Good Manners,Which After All Cost Nothing. | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 3-Pundit Username: benlynx Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.77.182.46 |
As another one from the u.k. soulman,i understand your protest at the insertion of huh.. but put into the context of a non u.k. poster placing the huh.. i'd guess it's just there as a replacement of our eh???? like the u.k. says: "you know what i mean eh????" | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 6-Zenith Username: david_meikle Post Number: 422 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 62.252.128.19 |
Rik You have your own forum. Resolve your problem there please. http://www.chatbusters.com/php bb/phpBB2/index.php | ||
Rik Williams (rik) 1-Arriviste Username: rik Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 217.42.229.30 |
Apologies David | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.79.13.154 |
Hi Raymond point taken. | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 6-Zenith Username: david_meikle Post Number: 423 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 62.252.128.19 |
Thanks Rik. While I don't disbelieve you guys, I also want to say that I have an opposite experience. I met Uriel Jones at a free concert near Detroit last year and he was a very nice guy. Posed for photographs, mixed with us etc etc. A number of forum members were there and can vouch for this. As for Bob Babbit, he has educated us on SDF no end, as has Jack Ashford. Like someone has said above, it was an off night. I have at least one a week  David | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 6-Zenith Username: david_meikle Post Number: 424 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 62.252.128.19 |
Frank Bryant (of the Just Brothers) and Uriel at the Public Library, Ann Arbor. I still can't believe it was free. Joe Hunter and Marcus Belgrave played too and the wonderful Tonya Hood was on vocals.  | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 6-Zenith Username: david_meikle Post Number: 425 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 62.252.128.19 |
Uriel and myself after discussing his time at Golden World (no kidding).  | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 3-Pundit Username: benlynx Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.77.182.46 |
I hope Rik can get to interview them, so things can be put right in the magazine, as not all the chatbusters readers will see an apology on this board. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2732 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
I would agree, it would be nice to hear their side of the story. There may be much more to the story than we know. I can understand how the fans must have felt. From all accounts, this seems to be out of character for them. Is it possible to get their side of the story. Hopefully, there's a reasonable explanation for the situation. | ||
Destruction (destruction) 6-Zenith Username: destruction Post Number: 468 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.139.236.125 |
At the second set of their Annapolis show in January, I saw both Uriel and Ivory Joe autograph at least 20 albums for one fan. I remember it well because my friend told the guy after the first 10 to move over and let some of us get some pressed flesh and that he could get the rest signed when the rest of us were through. Babbit, Jack, Alan, my main guys Joe and Eddie, 2 of the happiest, friendliest, sincerest and most humble musicians I've ever met...all were very accomodating.....though Jack told me he wasn't signing nuthin till he got his scarf just right...lol, but he said it with a smile and regretted not having a copy of his book with him. As I left that night, I looked back on stage and saw Joe Hunter still signing albums. I'm sorry for any fans who've been let down by perfomers. I remember waiting 4 hours outside the Warner Theater in D.C. for Frank Zappa who changed his mind about giving my partner an interview. As was expressed above, I hope there's a reasonable explanation and an apology if one is warranted. | ||
austin mortimer (austin) 1-Arriviste Username: austin Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.153.32.116 |
Hello to one and all.My name is Austin,i too was at the Manchester Apollo for The Funk Brothers Concert.Circle Row GG Seat 43.Cost �29.75.I am submitting this post in support of soulman and rik.I witnessed the scenes as stated.Joe Messina and Allan Slutsky Autographed my Tickets despite a polite request to the other band members after many hours of waiting in very cold conditions we were abruptly ignored.I had mixed feelings about "going to print" why? well i grew up with Motown Music i loved it and still do the last thing i ever want to do is tarnish it's image but SADLY that is the case.I take NO satisfaction from this post.To Joe Messina and Allan Slutsky my sincere thanks to both of you. | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 3-Pundit Username: benlynx Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.79.199.164 |
As mentioned earlier, I am from the U.K. but I am absolutely shocked at some of my fellow U.K. posters. The views shown here only reflect one side, not one person has asked for the Funk Brothers side in this.. I for one, will still put it down to an off day.. | ||
Dave Clegg (dave_clegg) 1-Arriviste Username: dave_clegg Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 217.44.47.183 |
At the Royal Festival Hall in London, it could not have been more different. I was lucky enough to catch the rehersal,and meet the guys before the show. They were friendly, talking about their careers, and signed the program for me. For my part I was able to thank them all for the pleasure that the music they helped create has given me for so so many years. A GREAT BUNCH OF GUYS | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 850 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.250.2.106 |
..and again, as it's beens said in earlier posts...we STILL don't know EVERYTHING that went on behind the scenes. It's just too one sided at this time. Maybe it was something about them getting paid, or some other personal matter....I think it's fogotten that they are 'Human'. I'm sure the FB's didn't take it out on their fans personally. They know it's the fans that keep them going, so...It was most likely a bad moment for them, and something had to happen to cause not jut one, but it's so far alleged that 'all' of the FB's excluding Joe Messina, Alan Slutsky were rude. Now why would a bunch of overgrown Men get together and act this way to their own fans, or to anyone for that matter? The FB's know about this Forum, and so until further notice, I'll just have to wait to hear from any of them, either here on this forum or in the News. | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.77.139.245 |
Raymond your shocked are you,ask the Funk Brothers for their side see what they say,and yes everyone does have a off day,Medusa i dont recollect saying all the Funks where this way.Cleggy iam glad you got your programme signed maybe if they had sold some in Manchester we to might have had one signed,and yes Cleggy you have told me more than once how great they where. | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 146 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 170.224.224.156 |
Nice Pictures, David!!! Peace! Isaiah | ||
Gary (gary) 5-Doyen Username: gary Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.73.238.2 |
I really don't see the point of all this. As Medussa, Isaiah, David, Vonnie, Juice, Destruction, Raymond, etal have already mentioned, we don't know the underlying reasons for this apparent rude behavior on the part of the Funks who were mentioned by name in the above posts. Therefore, we should not be so quick to criticize them or label them as insensitive towards their fans. If the Funks had an ongoing history of rude or intolerant behavior towards their fans, that would be different, but by all accounts, they do not have such a previous history. This leads me to agree with the previous comments that this was probably an isolated incident and was in no way reflective of their normal conduct. I'm not making excuses for them, but everybody is allowed to have an off day; even the Funk Bros. Get over it. | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 6-Zenith Username: david_meikle Post Number: 426 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 81.130.211.124 |
Thanks Isaiah. It was a day to remember. David | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.79.57.239 |
Gary i agree with you every one has a off day the incident upset me and others at the time its now forgotten as far as i am concerned,but what bothers me is the doubting thomases as if we sat together and made up this story,as forRaymond being so shocked,he wants to get out more.Yes David nice photos,I WAS THERE AND I SAW WHAT HAPPENED,Peace. | ||
Dave Clegg (dave_clegg) 1-Arriviste Username: dave_clegg Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 217.44.47.183 |
Soulman, no body should doubt your word, you are an honourable and trustworthy friend. I just wish you could have enjoyed the London concert with me, you deserved better. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 851 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 155.139.68.10 |
Ok Soulman, you did personally mentioned Uriel Jones...so it actually wasn't the 'Funk Brothers' afterall, just Uriel Jones, and you were there. Ok, so maybe Uriel JOnes was having a bad day. | ||
Steve (steve_litos) 3-Pundit Username: steve_litos Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.100.86.4 |
Hey guys, At work at a major sporting/concert arena & I have seen many sports figures & entertainers over the course of the years. My thoughts: Musical entertainers, athletes, & actors are just plain old, average, everyday people. They are not better than your average person. The Funk Brothers are just people too. Most of them had decades long careers in music in which they backed up the "famous people". The rigors of fame are a new experience for them. -Steve | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 3-Pundit Username: benlynx Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.76.75.100 |
"as for Raymond being so shocked,he wants to get out more" sorry soulman, but your responses to some here, including myself, show me the type of person you really are.. all any of us have said, is we won't condemn anyone, without having both sides of what happened.. why are you getting so aggressive with some of us? and as you don't know me personally, you surmise things about me. suffice to say, i too was at London, this was the reason i would want to know the funk brothers side of this.. with me, and the others who I had travelled together with, they were true gentlemen. calm down soulman, hopefully the record will be put straight. | ||
Morgan (leeway) 4-Laureate Username: leeway Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 209.104.139.161 |
Why can't Soulman have his say, without all of this "I'm sure they/he was having a bad day"...garbage? Right off the bat, excuses were being made for the bad behavior("I'm SURE he was just having a bad day") and Soulman's complaints were treated as "Quit your whining, you whiner!" A lot of these old school artists should be on their best behavior in Europe, particularly if this encounter was pre-arranged, European fans have kept a lot of their "careers" alive! Then, none of you all who are making these excuses for Uriel, were even there! Amazing!! How do any of you know whether or not Uriel was having a bad day or not, you weren't there, Soulman was! Okay, YOU had a great experience with the Funk brothers, they didn't, this is okay because your experience wasn't like Soulman and his mates? Then to make assumptions, when this man and others have come forward and stated that this is indeed what happened, why do that?? "Get over it?" "Calm down" Now you're assuming that this is affecting the man's life to the point where he can't get over it? He has a right to express his hurt and outrage without a bunch of people who weren't even there, telling him he's wrong to feel the way he's feeling or make him seem as if he's being a silly-nilly for voicing his disappointment. A lot of the (old school) artists owe their left lungs to Europe and the support they get from those fans. Soulman and anyone else from the U.K. who was offended, I hear ya and I ain't making no excuses. I hate to sound as if I am always trying to "stir things up", on this site, this isn't the case at all. ("Well that's what you're doing now!) I despise the notion that Soulman's feelings should somehow be discounted because others on this board know that this wasn't the way that Mr. Jones/FB'ers were when "WE" saw them. This is the message you all convey with "some" of your comments, and it ain't right. Just as your experience left some of you with a warm and wonderful memory of the encounter, they deserved the same thing--period. (Message edited by leeway on October 08, 2004) (Message edited by leeway on October 08, 2004) | ||
FRANCIS T (francis_t) 2-Debutant Username: francis_t Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.92.67.74 |
Clearly, this a difficult one and it is correct to wish for a viewpoint from the Funks side.I can say it was a rather unpleasant cold day to hang around outside the venue, particularly if you were expecting an arrangement to be honoured. With regard to soulman,s showing the sort of person he is in his postings.Do I take it this refers to his tenacity in staying around despite the weather to get the photos, UK soul fans RESPECT him for, or does this suggest something less flattering.I don,t want to add argumentative comment just point out respect for the soulman in the UK soul scene.Sounds like he is human like the Funks, and doesn,t like the cold! Our party travelled a good distance to see the show which was great, so I expess no criticism of the Funks.I just wonder what it is about artists appearing out of London and fans.Sadly , Bobby Womack let us down aswell as discussed in previous postings. Just my thoughts on the subject.It will be interesting to get some Funk,s feedback on the subject or maybe the matter should rest with those involved knowing what they know and leaving it there. With respect to all. FRANCIS T | ||
David Meikle (david_meikle) 6-Zenith Username: david_meikle Post Number: 428 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 62.252.128.19 |
I don't think we will be hearing from the Funks on this. Clearly the final sentence in the opening message gives us a clue as to the background. Would you want to give an interview immediately after a fracas between yourselves and your management team? Some will say no and some will say yes. While this incident clearly happened and should not have happened, I think some cognisance should be taken of the circumstances. | ||
Don (don) 6-Zenith Username: don Post Number: 965 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.77.34.43 |
Everyone has a bad day once and awhile, I had my share of them as well. One never knows what lead up to that uneventful day? Don | ||
Raymond Ennifer (benlynx) 3-Pundit Username: benlynx Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.79.8.105 |
Morgan, i stand by my saying to soulman "calm down". He was having a personal dig at me, when there was no need. Soulman has his say, others then had their say.. there's nothing wrong with that.. maybe some views aren't the same as soulman's, but the people stating those views were perfectly entitled to relate them.. | ||
Davie Gordon (davie_gordon) 5-Doyen Username: davie_gordon Post Number: 253 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.157.113.195 |
I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of what happened other than that I'm in agreement with Morgan (or is it Leeway ?) Did I miss something along the way ? - what was Alan Slutsky doing there anyway - I thought there was a law suit going on between Alan and the Funks. Has that blown over ? Davie | ||
Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone) 4-Laureate Username: funkyone Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 216.221.81.99 |
I too had a great experience with he Funk Brothers especialy Uriel as he chatted with us on the street corner a few hours before the concert.There was even a annoying pest hovering around him and he was very patient and polite with everyone.Sorry everyone didn't have a chance to meet some of the nicest down to earth musicians that I encountered that day.I would chalk it up as a one time thing as you would be hard pressed to find similar experiences. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 715 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
I love the Funk Brothers, and Soulman is a cyber-friend of mine. I'm sorry that Soulman did not get a chance to interview my favorite musicians. Perhaps the next time Soulman will get the chance. Soulman, the next time you come to Detroit, if Joe Hunter and Uriel are in town, we will look them up. They are the only two, other than Messina who live in the area. Now, I wish everyone would enjoy the excitement we felt when they went to Europe. 2004 European Tour - The Funk Brothers http://soulconcert.tripod.com/ jamesjamerson/id3.html (((Funk Brothers))) (((Soulman))) (((Jo))) | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2780 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
David, I would never want to be interviewed while angry. I have the tendency to say things out of anger, that I'd never say after a little cooling off period. While I certainly can't apologize for anyones actions, I certainly feel bad for the fans who endured it. I also hope that one the smoke clears, cooler heads will prevail & a sincere apology issued to all. It appears as though a negative personal matter manifested itself publicly & that's sad for all concerned. | ||
Dennis Coffey (dennis_coffey) 3-Pundit Username: dennis_coffey Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Hello everyone. I just think the Funks were probably a little tired from the trip over and all the gigs they had been working. I played with all of them for many years and they are all great guys. I also did book signings in Manchester and the UK and I loved the response I got over there from the fans. Sometimes things just happen. Uriel is a nice guy. The tour was booked with a very aggressive timeline. Maybe the next time they come over, the schedule will be a little more relaxed and they can spend more time with their fans. | ||
Bob Babbitt (bob_babbitt) 1-Arriviste Username: bob_babbitt Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
I find it strange that after almost 9 (NINE) months someone would bring this up now? First of all...if you expect the Funk Brothers to remember what happened after that show it would probably be impossible...I do seem to recall after all of the shows in Europe that there were people waiting for autographs or photos.... I have never personally witnessed any Funk Brother turn anyone down if asked for an autograph or photo......Now I would also like to say that at times we have been actually pursued by bizarre wacko�s crawling all over you....Now we have to protect ourselves when encountered by someone like this.....In Europe we had a security person with us who truthfully speaking, did not take no shit from anyone......He was a black belt, tough son of a bitch who I have personally seen jump all over these kind of people protecting the Funk Brother�s and literally throw them away from us....Now...the possibility of him not being there or telling someone else to back away as we were trying to get into our van to return to our hotel and at the moment some wacko went for Uriel or any one of us I guess we would get pissed off and tell the guy to get away.....Now...as far as the people who came for an interview with the Funk�s at Manchester that was the first show we played in Europe.....The possibility of several incidents could have been the reason for the Funk�s not being able to talk with you.....Maybe they did not tell us that there were going to be people that wanted to interview us after the show (They did that quite a few times)because that day at the sound check and before the show they had us already doing several interviews....Manchester was the first show we did in Europe and I personally remember doing interviews and being filmed for some of them.....Some places we traveled to we would have to do interviews in the morning also.......Now think about this.....After flying in from the States the day before with the time change (6 or 7 hours difference) after being up all day, doing a sound check/rehearsal........Doing interviews.... Then doing a high-energy show...By the way.. To a packed audience...Then sitting in our dressing rooms until all the Funks and promoters business has been taken care of ...Tired on our ass and also knowing that we have to be up early in the morning to bus it to London...after all...... the average age is only almost 70......Yeah, that�s SEVENTY....Then to top it off walking out into January, frozen, snowbound windy below zero chill factor.....Do you want to hear more?...... Bob Babbitt | ||
mike s (mike_s) 5-Doyen Username: mike_s Post Number: 216 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.7 |
As I started this thread, (whoops,didn't think it would cause that reaction!), I think Bob's msg should end it?? We still hope that the guys make it back to Europe ...and soon! | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 859 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.114.160 |
ooooooo the truth sounds & feels sooo damn good, Thanks Bob Babbitt for setting the record straight...I Luv Y'all (anyway). | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 329 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Thanks Bob! | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 709 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Babbitt, Good to hear you chime in on this. The road is tough. You know it and I know it. Thanks for setting the record straight. | ||
Soulman (soulman) 2-Debutant Username: soulman Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.79.235.71 |
Medusa i am glad Bob has made you so happy and Ralph i am so happy for you that Bob has set the record straight,Peace. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 892 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.251.25.175 |
hmmmmmmmm Ok, so are you insinuating that if Berry Gordy didn't make a certain contact/connection, there would't have been a Hitsville/Motown???? Didn't think so...and if I'm wrong, then I apologize for the misunderstanding. Plus there's more the black folks that music & sports. Please keep that in mind folks. ...and as far as that afro-american culture thing, africans didn't write their own story, everyone else wrote about our past (here), and it was accepted & taught to the world...that's why it's called.... HIS- Story. OUR-story began long before any slave ship or space ship for that matter. | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 348 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Austin, Please elaborate in detail what you mean by "these were significant contributions to the history and development of Afro American Cultures". I don't have a clue about what you are trying to convey. | ||
SisDetroit (sis) 6-Zenith Username: sis Post Number: 740 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.43.206.95 |
Ralph, Lowell: I think the last four posts should be transferred to a new thread. This subject is so important that it needs it's OWN THREAD. I wouldn't want anybody to think that African Americans or the Funk Brothers are in debt to the UK simply because "...this Berry Gordy made contact with Dave Godin to further the ambitions of Motown." I'm sure, with further discussion, we can fit the UK into African American history prior to Motown. (Message edited by sis on October 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on October 15, 2004) (Message edited by sis on October 15, 2004) | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 725 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
I'm not sure I'm perfectly clear on what is being debated here. Sis and Austin...can you elaborate a little more and help clarify things for me? Sis, I'll see what I can do about moving this to another thread but as of late I have been having editing difficulties and I don't want to trouble Lowell who tends to have his hands full most of the time dealing with what he must deal with. Why don't you start a new thread on this emerging debate because it could be a good one? I'll see what I can do about appending these couple of posts at a later time. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2860 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hi Austin, I'm glad to see you here, welcome aboard. Now, let me preface my statements by saying that I definitely agree that the UK was important to the development of Motown. What I disagree with is your idea that Motown & the Blues was buoyed by the help of the UK. I agree that the UK helped revive the careers of many Bluesmen & they have a true love for the music. I honor & respect that fact. However, The Blues has been an AMERICAN staple for centuries & as I recall, was doing pretty good on its own, before the UK was involved with it. To be honest about it, the UK latched on to a music that we had already begun to discard. Overstating the importance of the UK as regards the blues, is tantamount to reinventing the wheel. We had already left the Blues behind by the time that the UK embraced it, that is fact. Additionally, you simply can't use a quote from ONE or two books & use that as a means to validate your point. Just because a person gives their perception of things in a book, doesn't make it a correct perception. Exactly what makes Mr. Olivers' accounts so definitive? What information did he use to back up his positions? What real perspective does he have & what makes his voice the definitive one, to speak for an entire genre of music? Just because he's a "Southern born Negro" makes him no expert. By that description of him, I would guess that whoever described him that way, also believes that all "Southern Born Negros" also loves dem some chikken & wodermelon & are experts on cotton. It's irresponsible & disrespectful to all of us, to suggest that he's an expert because he's a Southern Black. Shame on whoever wrote such a thing, be they Black or White. All Southern born Blacks did not embrace the Blues & the fact that he's Black doesn't make him an expert, much less a mouthpiece for the genre known as Blues. I think that you need a little more proof than a foreword from a catalog, before you make such an assertion. At best, that assumption is a reach & I remind you that you are quoting ONE book & calling that "Studying". Using the writing of ONE man does not qualify as "studying". I'd suggest that you broaden your scope on the topic by reading a few more books. I can find one book that will support any statement I make. Unless you have other information to balance your opinion, it's a bit stilted & sounds like propaganda. If you're honestly interested in finding the truth, I suggest that you read a few more books for balance. Now, for Motown. With the exception of Scooter Boys & the two Blues books, I have the other books that you mentioned. Again, I say that these books are not definitive works on Motown. They give no proof that definitively shows that the UK was a major factor in anything. I don't recall those books showing Motown sales before & after the UK embracing of Motown. I'd like a little more proof to show exactly HOW the UK played a pivotal part, as regards the success of Motown. Sweet Soul Music actually focused more on Southern Soul & touched lightly on Motown. As for Nelson George, he comes across as a bit snobbish, as regards his OWN music. He has the habit of turning up his nose at certain types of BLACK music & appears to write with the sensibilities of a yuppie. In my opinion, he doesn't have a thorough grasp of certain elements of his OWN music & as such, he's no "expert", just another man with an opinion. The fact that he's Black, makes him no expert in my eyes, much less the eyes of my community. In fact, there are people in this very forum, who have a far greater grasp of things, than Mr. George. The people here write about what they lived & saw. In many instances, Mr. George doesn't & that's the difference. In our communities, Mr. George isn't accepted as the most authorative or credible person as regards Soul music. That's the reality of it here across the water. As far as Calling Out Across The World is concerned, that's no expert account either. The book was published by Helter Skelter, which is located at 4 Denmark Street, which happens to be.....IN LONDON. It is written from a UK perspective & though it gives some good info & even discusses the whole Frank Wilson/Eddie Foster/Otis Clark mess, it doesn't fortify your claims. What's clearly missing here is perspective. As I readily admit, the UK played a part in Motowns' success, are you really asserting that Motown wouldn't have become what it did without the UK???? You're not really suggesting that are you? You have quoted 6 books that you have studied as a basis for your ideas. Take it from me, 20 books wouldn't begin to scratch the surface. As one who loves musical history, I own 20 times that amount. For the sake of knowledge, I suggest that you expand your reading, before making the quantam leaps that you have here. Honestly, it sounds as though you picked books that would substantiate your beliefs, as opposed to pursuing a fair & balanced perspective, as reagrds this music. You have totally neglected to mention the sheer quality & excellence of the music as the true foundation of Motowns' success. Motown didn't grab the jugglar & imagination of the world, through any advocation of the UK. Or are you suggesting that Motown would have utterly failed without the UK? How did we even end up discussing this, when the thread is about The Funk Brothers having a bad day? That was indeed the topic. The meaning of your post escapes me. Your post has a defensive quality about it, as though we claimed ownership of tea & crumpets. No one here suggested any disrespect toward the UK. Yet, you insult us with the claim that the UK did so much for Black music. Afro American culture was established long before Motown & even longer before the UK acknowledged & embraced it. How you lay claim to being a huge part of it simply astonishes me. I'll close by responding to the quote that you used: "his frame of reference is as accurate and concrete as though he himself had been born in the environment of the Blues." Says who??? Let me just say this, I was born into the environment of drugs, murders, criminality, ignorance & poverty. Though I was born into that environment, I never lived that life, much less understood or embraced it. So, because a person is "born" into an environment, doesn't mean that he truly knows or understands those elements. It doesn't make his opinon accurate or concrete, as he can only relate things from HIS perspective. It doesn't make his frame of reference anything other than that....HIS frame of reference. And, it doesn't mean that he's correct. Frankly, I don't see what your posts had to do with what happened with The Funks, much less anything that has been posted here. However, what you did do, was manage to insult a lot of folks here with theories, based on dubious & limited information at that. I sit here, scratchin what little hair I have left & shaking my head, as I really don't know what point you were trying to make here. WOW!!!!! I guess that it seemed like a good idea at the time, huh (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 15, 2004) | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2861 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Ralph & Sis, I didn't see Ralph's post. Respectfully I say that I wouldn't waste my time creating a thread containing such a ridiculous premise. If information from 6 books are what we're going to discuss, why bother? It's like sending a one legged man into an ass kicking contest & will surely evolve into something that will be potentially nasty. And for what? An opinion that comes from 6 books?? This will not be about a fair & balanced discussion of the assertions posed. How could there be a fair & balanced discussion of something that ludicrous? There was an agenda already set in place & all we'll end up doing is trying to prove a point that needs not be proven. History has already proved the point & honestly, do we really need to rehash what we already know to be true?? I don't think so, but if any of you'd like to do so, so be it. I think that that topic & all of the negative ramifications that could come from it, be given the amount of attention that it deserves...... NONE!!!!! I mean no disrespect to anyone, but this is ridiculous & I don't know how this thread turned into some type of provincial skirmish in the first place. Well, actually I do know & I have a feel for the underlying message. Rather than jump to conclusions, I'll wait to see the responses. NAHHH!! You know me better than that. The more that I think about it, the more pissed I get. Here's the underlying message that I picked up from the offending post: "Since we embraced Motown & we played a huge part in their success (at least from the few books I read anyway), how dare they be rude to us. WE made them what they are & they OWE us for the success that WE made possible". That's the underlying message that I picked up here. Let me expand on that. Since they (based upon his information) played such a huge part in the and I quote: "significant contributions to the history & development of Afro American cultures", the Funks owe them & as such, should have signed the damn autographs, put on a big smile & shut the hell up. You see, from what is being asserted, if it wasn't for US (meaning them), The Funks would be nothing, as Motown surely would have failed without them. That's what I'm picking up here. If I'm wrong, then why would any of this have come up in the first place? Frankly, I'm angry, I'm pissed that anyone would make such a condescending & insulting statement. Think about what was really said. Basically, we owe for our culture, The Blues & Motown. Well, now I've got the Blues. Where the hell were folks when we were being clubbed on the head, sprayed with water & chased by dogs? Where were all of our friends then? While we needed justice, from what I just read, they gave us Blues & Motown. Well, thanks a lot. So, what's next? Reparations??? Royalties?? Sorry for being so angry Ralph & Sis, but I think you know exactly where I'm coming from. Some of us can walk & chew gum at the same time. Well, if the intent was to wake the natives, consider this one wide awake & quite pissed, as I know how to read between lines quite well. CARRY ON (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 15, 2004) | ||
isaiah imani (isaiah) 5-Doyen Username: isaiah Post Number: 194 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 216.148.244.92 |
Juice, he was quoting Richard Wright, of Black Boy/Native Son fame, on the British writer and musicologist, Paul Oliver... Oliver is not Black, but he has distinguished himself as a Blues historian of note... As to the rest of your post, to say I agree is a major understatement(smile!) On Paul Oliver, for example, he captures the Blues history beautifully, but it is clear that he did not clearly understand the environment in which these Blues People lived... I find that to be the case with most, if not all British writers... They can capture the documented history, but have no consciousness, no feel, for what life was like for an African American in the deep south during the Blues heyday... For example, the writer Brian Evans, I believe is his name, who wrote Just My Soul Responding, makes the constant inference throughout one of the chapters of his book, that there were no protest songs written in the Blues or Rhythm & Blues idiom until near the end of the Civil Rights Movement. He clearly does not understand that, one, there were, indeed, protest Blues songs written in double-entendre and African American slang which he cannot decipher... They had to be written this way for to openly protest conditions under Jim Crow was punishable by instant death by mob, and certainly without trial... He cannot wrap his head around that as a foreigner... Secondly, on the commercial tip(Whites buying Blues records)where was the market???(smile!) It was hard enough getting Delta Blues recorded in the first place without adding to that the spectre of Protest Songs... Lastly, I would guess that a lot of folks loved Motown music outside of the United States, but the fact remains that the music was well loved and respected in the United States, and the United States is responsible for the lion's share of the purchases of Motown music hands down... Like Juice said, don't get African American culture confused with Motown Records... Those are two different entities... The British are responsible for the development of African American Culture??? A thoroughly embarrassing and preposterous statement... Movin' on... Peace! Isaiah (Message edited by isaiah on October 15, 2004) | ||
austin mortimer (austin) 1-Arriviste Username: austin Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 81.153.131.80 |
To Ralph Terrana and all the persons i have offended my sincere apologies. i have deleted the posts concerned . yours sincerely austin mortimer | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 728 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Austin, I wish you wouldn't have deleted your posts. Juice and Isaiah make valid points from their individual perspectives, and I most certainly respect their opinions. These are two smart cookies. However, I have ALWAYS contended that this being a forum dictates that we should all have our personal say in what we profess to believe. This most certainly includes you. By the way...I notice you're new to the forum. Welcome and please continue to post here. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2864 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Hi Austin, It's not that bad. I've made similar mistakes as well. I saw you post in the other thread & understand what you were trying to convey. I'll readily admit that what you meant in your heart, was not the message that was conveyed here. As you've explained what you meant, I have no further problem with your posts. No harm, no foul! It takes awhile to learn how to manuever here, so take it from one who knows, don't take any chastisements here to heart. When I was new, I quickly learned that I have to be clear about what I had to say & be prepared to prove it. I was spanked quite nicely along the way & I learned a lot from it. So, don't feel discouraged, remember, we can only read your words & sometimes what we mean to say, doesn't come out the way that we mean it in our hearts! It's just something to grow from & trust me, there's a lot here to learn. Hang in there! Signed, From one who knows (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 15, 2004) (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 15, 2004) | ||
Ralph Terrana (ralph) Moderator Username: ralph Post Number: 729 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 209.240.205.63 |
Ahhhhh...Peace preavails. I love this forum! |
