Soulful Detroit SoulfulDetroit Forum Five Heartbeats movie v. Temptations movie: Previous Next

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Cool Ju (cool_ju)
4-Laureate
Username: cool_ju

Post Number: 137
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Watching Five Heartbeats flick on BET. Hey, this movie seems deeper to me now than it did when I first saw it.

So which flick had more meat?
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2657
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's up Ju!

You're singing to my heart here. The Five Heartbeats has always been one of my favorite movies. Was it a little silly...yes. Was it a little light...yes. For some reason, I love that movie & always will. Something about it touches me more than most movies about music.

It's hard to say what movie had more meat. Robert originally meant for it to be a comedy, until he spoke to The Dells & they set him straight about the real deal. So, some of it was based on their experiences, some of it obviously from other sources. For example, I wonder where they got the idea of Big Red hanging Bird out of the window?

Actually, I would like to see the movie that Robert FILMED, as opposed to the movie that we SAW. At the time, I read that there was a lot of the movie that was left on the editing floor. If you watch the Released version carefully, you can see that some of the story seems cut. Situations pop up, with no warning. Like the affair between J.T & Duck's fiancee Tanya. There was nothing in the movie that hinted at it, until it suddenly happened. I hope that Robert has all of that footage & I hope someday that there'll be a "Directors Cut" of the movie, as I feel that some important elements of the storyline were cut due to budget & time constraints.

However, that will never happen, as I'm sure that the company doesn't consider this movie to be important enough to merit such consideration.

To me, The Temptations movie seems fake to me. Don't get me wrong, I like it & upon recent viewing, I liked it even more. However, it's written from the perspective of one man. In order to get a more balanced view, you must get various opinions in such an endeavor. I think that his was a one-sided view & not necessarily 100% truthful. For a ficticious movie like The Five Heartbeats, that can be expected & a little creative license is acceptable. For a movie about an institution like The Temptations, it is not. Otis comes across as a mixture of Father Theresa & Mahatma Ghandi & I don't buy it one bit! It comes across as self-serving & a bit dishonest.

However, that's just my opinion, I liked it anyway. I just took it with a grain of salt.
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Vickie (vickie)
4-Laureate
Username: vickie

Post Number: 112
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 198.81.26.46
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 1:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Five Heartbeats!
I love that movie, my friend Loretha produced it..

good stuff there....

Vickie
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2660
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 2:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Vickie,

For years, I've been trying to find out just what was cut form the movie. Could you possibly find out & elaborate about it?
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Vickie (vickie)
4-Laureate
Username: vickie

Post Number: 113
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 198.81.26.46
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 2:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I could ask...

but.......

don't know if she would tell me that info for public use, don't know when I could bring that up as a topic with her ....peeps I know like that don't divulged that info...you find it out later when and if they want it known...
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Vickie (vickie)
4-Laureate
Username: vickie

Post Number: 114
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 198.81.26.46
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you know Juice, I would like to see director's cuts of all of robert's movies in a dvd set..

box sets come out all the time....I don't know Robert like I know Loretha but I think he should release all of his films, the directors cuts..

I say it should happen one day...

why not
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2662
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 2:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Vickie,

I need to find a way to contact Robert. I don't want info for gossips sake. I'd love to know his original intent for the movie, what he had to eliminate & why. Some scenes had an in complete feel to them, I'd just love to know that background, so that I could see how it was meant to flow. I never heard anything negative about the editing, just that scenes had to be eliminated due to time & budgetary considerations.

Hey, I've bought at least 3 copies of the movie. I think that the background story would be informative & not negative. Hell, if all of these "Directors Cuts" are good enough for some of the lousy low budget DVDs I've seen, it's more than good enough for The Five Heartbeats.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on October 03, 2004)
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Vickie (vickie)
4-Laureate
Username: vickie

Post Number: 115
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 198.81.26.46
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 2:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He is affiliated now with the Black Family Cable Channel ?? ...he should be pretty easy to find, or try the dirctor's guild...
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Moe (moe)
5-Doyen
Username: moe

Post Number: 348
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.140.83.68
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 2:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice,
I'm with you.......I would love to see a director's cut of Five Heartbeats....I also wondered about the implied affair between JT/Tanya
Now the Temptations movie, although I liked it, was (IMHO) hokey. Yes, I read Otis's book years ago, but if some of the other Temps were alive(the classic Temps) I would love to get their point of view....I would even welcome Dennis Edwards & his point of view (probably never to occur)
So it's Five Heartbeats for me.........
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2664
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 3:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for the info Vickie. I hate to see how little regard some seem to have for The Five Heatbeats. Now, if it was the stupid Monkeees movie, or Help.........

I agree Moe! I will try to contact Robert & get his thoughts. His comments could be very informative for aspiring screen writers like Cam.
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Vickie (vickie)
4-Laureate
Username: vickie

Post Number: 117
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 198.81.26.46
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 3:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if I 'm not mistaken Juice, I think Robert lectures to film students....

I could be wrong there..but I thought I heard that some time ago , he was giving talks to up and coming sceen writers and film students

not sure though....

The TV show Parent"Hood he did was for WB and I worked on it the whole run, he knows his stuff....

he's a brillaint person
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2665
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Vickie. I thought that his Partners In Crime shows & his Townsend TV was hilarious. "For 20 seconds, Blake Arrington is a tiger!!!". That was some funny stuff there!
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janebse (janebse)
3-Pundit
Username: janebse

Post Number: 49
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.63.7.73
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For me it is The Temptations all the way. Their voices, their footwork, the way they held themselves, their charisma. No other group comes even near. The movie was excellent and it too surpassed other movies. The Jackson movie was inept. Way too sudsy. The Heartbeats was boring.

Perhaps that is why wherever I go, I hear the Temptations singing. In the Casinos, in the upper-scale dress shops, in the restrooms, in the furniture stores. It doesn't matter. There are the Tempts. I've never heard the Heartbeats in the stores.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2667
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 5:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now Jane,

Their music wasn't in the stores because they were a fictious group made up for a movie made in the '90s about a '60s group. Actually, there were songs from the movie that were played in record stores. In 1991, the soundtrack included The Dells song, A Heart Is A House For Love & it was a top 20 R&B hit that year. Actually, it peaked at #15. From the same soundtrack, After 7 had a hit with the song, Nights Like This, which made it to #7 R&B. Not bad for a ficticious '60s Soul group :-)

Now, if we're talking about The Temptations as a GROUP, then there's no contest, no discussion at all. They win in a slaughter! Now, if we're talking about the merits of The Temptations, THE MOVIE....that's a whole different thing.

Now, when you throw in all of those classics & Leon playing David Ruffin, it definitely captures your attention. leon seems to have the knack of playing entertainers down pat. I'll discount his portrayal of Little Richard, that was a bit of ill conceived miscasting.

However....when you follow the story line, the "Aww shucks, golly gee maam" way that he portrayed them, was a bit incredulous to me. It rang false to me & it reminded me of the type of movies that I used to see in the 70s, on the ABC "After School Special". Even when he portrayed David messing up, he had the rest of the group members delivering dialog that sounded like outtakes from The Brady Bunch. Here's a sample:

Otis: "No one is bigger than the group"
Eddie (almost whimpering): Gee golly Otis, David's messing up again!! Oh gee, why does he do these things...it's terrible I tell you"
Melvin: "I don't know, what we gonna do?"
Otis: "No one is bigger than the group!!! I'll hold it all together. Blue, Ruffin's gotta go!!
Eddie: "Gee willikers, Otis, we need David. However, I know that we can count on you!!!"
Melvin: "I don't know about this Otis. What we gonna do???"

The dialog was absolutely stupid & the constant image that there was only TWO pure members of the group totally pissed me off. If I'm to believe that movie, David was the devil incarnate, Eddie was disgruntled, Melvin was a pacifist, Paul was falling apart, Dennis was incompetant & Otis was the patron saint that did it all.

I don't believe the movie is accurate & the fact that Ms. DePasse blessed it confirms that for me. We all saw the disaster mini series called "The Jacksons". Not exactly award winning material there & I've yet to read or see an Motown BIOGRAPHICAL music production bearing her name that hasn't been whitewashed for mass consumption. Even Motown 25 was edited to appear as though all was well.

I would've loved to see what Eddie, Paul & David, or even Melvin would have had to contribute to the story. The way that I see it, as one one member was alive when the movie was released, we only got 20% of the viewpoint & at least 1/3rd of that 20% is questionable to me.

I didn't view the story as truth. I viewed it as entertainment & didn't associate all of it as a factual depiction of The Temptations. Too much of that book was entirely inaccurate from the facts as we know them to be.
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Lady Mystique (ladymystique)
6-Zenith
Username: ladymystique

Post Number: 742
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 216.222.242.142
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's hard for me to say...5 Heartbeats was a fictional story and The Temptations was a true story, but elements possibly added to tell a story. Nonetheless, both are good movies to watch. :-)
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John Barry Sheffield (jaybs)
4-Laureate
Username: jaybs

Post Number: 82
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.92.168.171
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 1:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone got the "Five Heartbeats" on DVD? can you please look on the back, does it sat Region 1, someone told me that company made a few multi region DVD's, someone has a new copy I could get sent to the UK for me.

Thanks

John
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Morgan (leeway)
4-Laureate
Username: leeway

Post Number: 97
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.41.236.206
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 9:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Temptations movie gets my vote, hands down. It's a more believable story, better written than the FH's, better portrayal of the characters by the actors.

I've never liked the Five Heartbeats movie, the acting is pretty bad! The dialouge is pretty bad, so it would make sense that the acting would be pretty bad!

Did Robert write the screenplay? tsk,tsk. He could have done better. Maybe he had a deadline to meet, cause the whole movie just seems rushed to me. Not well thought out. (And we know he's good, Hollywood Shuffle has always been on my list of favorite movies ever, right after Help and The Yellow Submarine...LOL!

For whatever reason, black folks always want to make you feel as though you aren't black or something if you don't like the Five Heartbeats movie. That movie always comes up, sooner or later in conversations with people, and when I mention that I don't like it, eyeballs get big, lips curl under and hands fly to hips!! WHAT! YOU DON"T LIKE THE FIVE HEARTBEATS!! LOL!!!!!!

Seriously, this is the reaction, and I for one don't understand it. I support black filmakers, everything they make though isn't great or good! I own the movie, as I own probably every black movie ever made. (There's an old movie called "Hallelujah" with Nina Mae Mckinney- it's simply wonderful!) I just don't care for this particular movie, FH's, it's just not good.
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Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin

Post Number: 383
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 152.132.8.197
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Observations:

The Five Heartbeats may have been about the Dells but they looked like the Temptations. Quite a few folks thought it was about a Temptation like group (wink, wink)they danced like them, fought like them, had issues like the Tempts, yada, yada, yada....

The Temptation mini-series came after the release of the Five Heartbeats and although weak and would probably never hold up as a movie it was prime filler for todays television where ratings equal dollars. (It would have been much better if it had aired on cable television..(Juice I'm pretty sure that the Oh Golly and Gee Willikers references would have come off more like What the f**k is wrong with David ? Hey Brother, you better leave that sh*t alone, its destroying the group !

Maybe R Townsend will release a Directors cut ?

Someday someone will make The Temptation Movie, but Otis will probably no longer be with us .

Loved the actor who played Paul Williams in the mini series. I would have liked to have seen more of him and the back drop of his life because above all others his story was the true Tempt mystery.

The actor who portrayed Melvin looked like Otis ! As I was watching it , I kept saying to myself whats up with that ?

Wonder what was left on the cutting room floor ?

Leon should have won a Grammy ! His portrayal of David Ruffin was incredible.

They did get the steps right !!!!!LOL

Dennis was given the short shift......

Richard Street was a throw away.....

Ali Woodson didn't exist.......

I think they tried to balance some of the sordid details with saccarin filler and nutrasweet paste.

I cant wait to see "The Rise and Fall of The Temptations", but realisticly I rather read a great book about them first, sadly it hasn't been written.

And the band played on.........
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2689
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morgan,

Your account in the 4th paragraph is hilarious. I've never seen anyone react that way. In fact, many of the people that I know, do not like the film. Many of them feel exactly as you do & I never get mad about their opinions. Some of the movie is silly & the scene that I ALWAYS skip past, is when Duck & his sister are writing the song in the bedroom. I can't watch that part at all.

However, I love that movie, silly or not & can't get mad at anyone who feels differently.
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Morgan (leeway)
4-Laureate
Username: leeway

Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.41.236.206
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice,

About Duck and his sister...I laughed out loud just reading that!! I was going to write about how embarassed I feel when I watch that part in the movie, I just didn't want to trash it too badly!!!

I have never run into a black person who doesn't like that movie!! I am not kidding! I almost got beat down a few years ago, I remember it well....
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Chi Drummer (chidrummer)
5-Doyen
Username: chidrummer

Post Number: 247
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.175.80.46
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Put me in the "I like it" column (sorry Morgan)for The Five Heartbeats, but I also liked the Temptations film and the Jackson 5 miniseries. I own them all.

I think that maybe what alot of you are looking for is almost impossible to produce. Most films, that are any good, have a fairly narrow point of view/story to tell and a limited time to tell it. This combination of forces invariably leads to compromise. In order to tell the story the director and the editor must decide what to leave in/out, to combine separate events or people and even to add or move events out of order. The only film that usually strives for the complete truth is a documentary. Is it any wonder that funding for these is rough to get? After that, any film is trying to tell a story, create a mood or feeling and entertain its perceived audience.

That said, I like all of these films for different reasons. The Five Heartbeats, for me creates a wonderful mood about being apart of a very successful group during the '60's and '70's and all the elements that come together to eventually destroy the group, their individual lives and how those lives can come back together again. The same mood of the times and its effect on a band can be seen in one of my other movie faves, That Thing You Do.

The Temptations and the Jackson's film, IMHO, attempt to tell a very long a detailed story in a very short period of time. I think the reason some of the people in the films don't ring true to some of you who actually knew them is because sometimes people are given simple images so that the audience gets who they are quickly so that the story can move along. There's always this dance going on between accuracy of detail and narrative. Sometime detail wins, sometimes moving the story or creating a mood does. In the end half the fun of a good movie is arguing about the choices made concerning what is seen in the final cut. I think Robert T. did pretty well just to spark this much debate.
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Cool Ju (cool_ju)
4-Laureate
Username: cool_ju

Post Number: 143
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Morgan, I recorded "Hallelujah (sp?)." I like some those those Black gangster flicks from the 1930's that were shown in Feburary on TCM the other year, too.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2693
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 3:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The primary difference between The Temptations & The Five Heartbeats is this. The Five Hearbeats was originally intended to be a comedy. While researching the movie, The Dells let Robert know that life in the music business was no laughing matter. Robert went out with them to research what the business was like. The movie was loosely based on The Dells & I would imagine the scene where the police pulled them over & made them sing, may have been something that they eperienced. I think That The Heartbeats is an amalgamation of several different groups. Regardless, it is clearly a fictious story.

On the other hand.........

The Temptations purports to be a LEGITIMATE movie. It is supposed to be a REAL LIFE account of facts. The "facts" of that movie, flies in the face of facts that have been documented countless times previously. Also, as it was a Motown Production, it's perfectly understandable that it would have a larger budget & a better pool of actors to draw from, as the gonglomerate could afford to pay more. On the other hand, Robert was working with a somewhat limited budget. Remember this too, at the time, most of the actors in The Five Heartbeats, weren't very prominent at that time.

Considering the brand name Motown is a household name that's known worldwide, credibility is paramount. I found that many of the accounts shown in that movie were written from a one-sided perspective & the portrayal of some of the characters were stilted. I believe that only 3 people in that movie were portrayed in an almost God-like fashion. Everyone else seemed to have flaws. To me, there were too many liberties & too much creative license taken.

That was my main problem with the movie & the book. For them to write a movie about a group as great as The Temptations, from the perspective of ONE of the members seems wrong. There's no balance there. There was no Eddie, David, Paul, Dennis or anyone else to give a dissenting view. Quite honestly, a dissenting & balanced viewpoint is not what that movie strove for. It was basically the story told from one mans' point of view & given what we know about Motown & their quest to avoid ANY negative image, it don't have the ring of 100% truth to me.

When I consider the sheer number of men who have passed through the group, one thought occurs to me. Of the 16 ex-Temptations who were either booted out or left, most of them were portrayed as being problem children, while it appears as though 2 of the originals damn near walked on water. I find it hard to believe that ALL of them were abusers of drugs & drink, non-committed to excellence, lazy, shiftless, incompetant or disgruntled. It seems as thought all of the men who've been dismissed or left, were accused of being one of the above. I don't buy that. A more balanced story would have been appreciated.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on October 05, 2004)

(Message edited by juicefree20 on October 05, 2004)
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GEETEE(HPK) (geeteehpk)
3-Pundit
Username: geeteehpk

Post Number: 42
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 65.42.142.190
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like both movies for separte reasons. I'm not going to say one is better than the other. If I'm not mistaken,I believe the Dells actually had a part in the 5 Heartbeats movie,but it ended up on the cutting room floor.(IMAGINE THAT,A MOVIE BASED ON THE LIFE OF A GROUP,THAT RECENTLY GOT INDUCTED IN THE RNRHOF THIS YEAR , & THEY GET CUT OUT OF THE MOVIE? makes you what to say hmmmmm......)

KDub,I agree with your views on the Temps movie.

A director's cut of the 5 Heartbeat would be great and have the Dells have their say,since the movie was based on their lives.
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 115
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.237.14.112
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 7:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Five Heartbeats gets my vote and what an OUTSTANDING cast!

Diahann Carrol as charm school teacher, Eleanor Potter.

Harold Nicholas, the younger half of the world famous Nicholas Brothers dance team, is known as one of the world's greatest dancers. He and his brother Fayard were established superstars. Harold had a role in the film as the Heartbeats' dance coach, 'Sarge'.

Michael Wright (Eddie King Jr.) and Leon (Duck) were both established actors as was Troy Beyer (Baby Doll) and Theresa Randle (Brenda).

The movie, the actors, the director (Robert) and the music deserved Academy Award nominations.

Period!

Arcadia
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2699
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 7:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Arcadia,

Here's just a few words to warm the cockles of your heart:

"So..what, I have 4, 5 drinks now I'm supposed to be an alkaholic".

"Jimmy don't know, he just think he knows".

"I got to fight every night to prove my love".

"Shy brother works everytime".

"Show me your best combination....Just what I thought, that ain't S***".

"Jimmy, as a friend, I'm trying to put some money in your pocket".

"Same old Big Red".

Gets you kind of misty, doesn't it :-)
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 116
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.237.14.112
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL! Hi Juice!

I loved all that great writing and you are right on the mark!

Love, Arcadia
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Lady Mystique (ladymystique)
6-Zenith
Username: ladymystique

Post Number: 748
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 216.222.242.142
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I skip past the scene with Dick and lil' sis too...I thought I was the only one guilty of that.:-)

AND what can I say about LEON...(speechless)...as JT and David Ruffin...I'm in awe already! :-)

Juice...you forgot one..."my business hours are from..."

Hey, Leon autographed both of my copies, so they are both priceless to me! :-)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2707
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 9:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...9 (cough, cough, cough) to 5 (gasp, gasp, cough, gasp)

"Excuse me ladies....NOW WHAT DID YOU WANNA TALK TO ME ABOUT???? OPEN THAT DOGGONE WINDOW...HEE, HEE, HEE.....Now, if you have anymore questions about my books & your royalties, my office hours are......."

"SAME OLD BIG RED!!!!"
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Lady Mystique (ladymystique)
6-Zenith
Username: ladymystique

Post Number: 752
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 216.222.242.142
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 9:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ROTFL!!
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Cool Ju (cool_ju)
4-Laureate
Username: cool_ju

Post Number: 145
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 1:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Nights like this, I wish raindrops would fa-a-a-all.. Nights like this..."
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zebop (zebop)
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Username: zebop

Post Number: 145
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.138
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 2:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah add me to the list too, can't stand that scene with Duck and his sister, it's corny. I've seen the movie about 5 times--liked it everytime. I do wonder where Duck got that keyboard from for that scene that was supposed to be from 1973...
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2719
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another thing that always bothered me with the movie was inaccuracies. I hate to say it, but I'm kind of anal about those types of things. For example, when Duck goes to Tanya Sawyers house & homeboy drives up in that bright shiny convertible. Now, it was supposed to be 1965, yet I'm hearing The Delfonics "Ready Or Not", which came out in 1968!!! That always drove me nuts. Don't tell me that you're depicting a scene from 1965, when a song from 3 years after that is playing. That always bothered me, as I strive for accuracy.

But, to this day, I still skip past the "We Haven't Finished Yet" part of the movie. I mean, he can't figure out the placement of the lyrics, but his kid sister does. The next thing I know, he's finding the right lyrics, at the exact time from his sock draw, the garbage pail, etc. I mean, out of ALL of the papers in that garbage pail, he just happened to sntach the ONE paper, that contained the PERFECT lyric. Without looking at it first, no less. For a moment, it reminded me of Karnac The Magnificent.

Nevertheless, I love that movie, absolutely love it!
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2720
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another thing that always bothered me with the movie was inaccuracies. I hate to say it, but I'm kind of anal about those types of things. For example, when Duck goes to Tanya Sawyers house & homeboy drives up in that bright shiny convertible. Now, it was supposed to be 1965, yet I'm hearing The Delfonics "Ready Or Not", which came out in 1968!!! That always drove me nuts. Don't tell me that you're depicting a scene from 1965, when a song from 3 years after that is playing. That always bothered me, as I strive for accuracy.

But, to this day, I still skip past the "We Haven't Finished Yet" part of the movie. I mean, he can't figure out the placement of the lyrics, but his kid sister does. The next thing I know, he's finding the right lyrics, at the exact time from his sock draw, the garbage pail, etc. I mean, out of ALL of the papers in that garbage pail, he just happened to snatch the ONE paper, that contained the PERFECT lyric. Without looking at it first, no less. For a moment, it reminded me of Karnac The Magnificent.

Nevertheless, I love that movie, absolutely love it!
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roy gennard (hitsville_chalky)
2-Debutant
Username: hitsville_chalky

Post Number: 16
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 82.37.210.74
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ive got nothing but love for both movies. i seen the five heartbeats first and loved it i wonder where they got there name from. has anyone got the sound track on cd and know where to get one from. i know a dj who had a bootleg made of nothing but love.
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 117
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.237.47.224
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 6:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Roy, I have the soundtrack and just LOVE IT! It's feel good music.

It's available on Amazon.com. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi dos/ASIN/B00008EQ83/qid%3D1097 102210/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11 %5F1/103-0075458-4110235
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2731
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 8:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Man,

I'm sure glad to see so many Heartbeat lovers speaking out. Maybe it's the happy ever after ending, maybe it's the overall story. Whatever it is, I've always loved that movie. When it came out, I was working the graveyard shift. Every morning when I got home, like clockwork, I plyed that movie. It never gets old & I found myself wondering about the storyline, what was edited out & why. I still love it & I always will.
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einnod23 (einnod23)
3-Pundit
Username: einnod23

Post Number: 38
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 24.90.14.159
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 3:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Five Heartbeats: "How does it feel to be me?"

Temptations: "Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Martha Reeves and the Vandellas. David Ruffin and the (double snap!); what's they name????"
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SisDetroit (sis)
6-Zenith
Username: sis

Post Number: 708
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.43.206.95
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

einnod23 - LOL. Leon played that part if he never plays another part. I cannot think of any other actor who could have played that part better than Leon. As a matter of fact, I am not as pleased with Leon in other character roles he has played in other movies.

I do enjoy watching the Five Heartbeats. People are always asking to borrow, but I never let it go. One part is chilling, and that is the part where the record producer/label character hangs the singer out the window because he asks for his money. I think this was a true incident. It seems familiar.

(Message edited by sis on October 07, 2004)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2753
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 56.0.103.24
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Sis,

yes indeed, that was true. And it happened to more than one artist at that.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 399
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.85
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice, the scene with Big Red's henchmen hanging Bird (Roy Fegan) out of the window was based on an incident that happened to Jackie Wilson. I don't know all of the details surrounding it, but he was hung out of a window until he decided to "play ball" with some people.
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 118
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.237.47.175
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 1:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

einnod23 that line in the movie, "how does it feel to be me" is the most dynamic moment in the movie. Michael Wright delivered that line with so much passion. That very moment in the motion picture reminded me of David Ruffin when he left the Temptations. Leon was also very good, but Michael Wright, IMO, was better.

Arcadia
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Gary (gary)
5-Doyen
Username: gary

Post Number: 211
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.73.238.2
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sis...I totally agreee with you concerning Leon's portrayal of David Ruffin; he had Ruffin down cold.

I could write a dissertation on why I think the rest of the Temptations mini-series was a totally bogus, but we've been over that several times already on SDF, so I won't bother.

As for The Five Heartbeats, I really enjoyed that movie; it's one of those I can watch multiple times without getting tired of it. The difference is whereas, The Five Heartbeats is fictional, the Temptations mini series was supposed to be a factual account of the events. Hah. If it had been filmed it in Detroit, I might be inclined to overlook some of the innaccuracies, but it wasn't. Pittsburgh is a great town, but the Temptations never lived there.
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Gary (gary)
5-Doyen
Username: gary

Post Number: 212
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.73.238.2
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice/Dvdmike...Vanilla Ice claims that Suge Knight and/or some of his "associates" did the same thing to him. If you ask me, they shudda dropped him. Just kidding.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 400
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.85
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Billy Davis said that he and Jackie Wilson were walking down a street when Jackie was accosted by a couple of goons. Billy said he was about to step in to help when Jackie told him in a very frightened voice to stay out of it. "You don't understand what's going on", he said.
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einnod23 (einnod23)
3-Pundit
Username: einnod23

Post Number: 39
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 208.27.111.121
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 3:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Name the quote that's in BOTH movies.

Ready? Go!
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zebop (zebop)
4-Laureate
Username: zebop

Post Number: 147
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.134
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"He ain't me." Maybe--not too sure.

Well I can rule out, "Ain't nobody coming to see you Otis."
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2763
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Mike & Gary,

I've heard both of those stories. I believe the Jackie story, The sad thing about that is that Jackie was no slouch with his hands. For them to have done that to him, must have been humiliating beyond belief & maybe broken his spirit as well. What in hell was he gonna do about it? Who was he gonna go to, Judge Judy? That experience had to have scarred him for life & a pox on whoever was responsible, as I wasn't there & cannot blame anyone by name.

Unfortunately, there were others who were also threatened to see if they could maintain a steady flight pattern.

Gary: as for Mr. Ice, I wouldn't believe him if he said that my nickname was Juice. This is a guy who claimed to be a ruffneck in the hood, he was an "OG", a rebel a loner. What he proved to be was full of it & he has absolutely ZERO creibility with anyone.

Maybe he wanted to be hung out of the window. It would have helped his non existent street cred. The truth is, he was warm as melted ice and...............

No Gangster, No Gangster No!!

Word to the mommy...son :-)
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Karyl (karyl)
2-Debutant
Username: karyl

Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.170.180.185
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 7:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To John Barry:
I have the Heartbeats DVD but I don't see where it says Region I on the back, unless it is in the real TINY writing!

I LOVE both movies! I love the part in the Heartbeats when Leon sings to the girl in the audience and she faints when he hits that high note.

One of my favorite lines from The Temptations movie is when David says to Eddie:
We the Voices and you know they WANT the voices :-)
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SisDetroit (sis)
6-Zenith
Username: sis

Post Number: 712
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.43.206.95
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 8:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karyl - That is a good line. Cause he sure got that right. We want the voices. :-)
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Karyl (karyl)
2-Debutant
Username: karyl

Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.170.180.185
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 8:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's interesting that "The Voices" personal lives were not mentioned in the movie. Kinda makes you wanna go...Hmmmmmmm....
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2766
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karyl,

I'm feeling you on that! I loved the accapella version of A Heart!!! The scene is almost ruined when Duck pushes the guy off of the stool & the piano starts playing before he does. I wish that they had released that accapella version, it was great. I never found out who sang it in the movie. Does anyone know who sang those parts?

The best part of that scene was when Eddie kissed her & she busted...well, you know. Eddie looked at her & shook his head like he was saying, "Umm, umm, umm....She was talkin' all that stuff. Look at her weak ass now. Somebody come get this sorry chick, she can't hang with this. CAIN'T NOBODY SING LIKE EDDIE KING JR."

"Babydoll, Babydoll..it's happenin'. It's really happenin'".

(Message edited by juicefree20 on October 07, 2004)
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soulseeker (soulseeker)
4-Laureate
Username: soulseeker

Post Number: 156
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 68.66.136.189
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the five heartbeats. Leon was great as JT but Michael Wright as Eddie King Jr. was the bomb. I think I liked it better because it WAS fictional and it had redemption in the end. It was a great story. Some of it was a little corny but it was a family movie. The scene that everyone hates is my 8 year old's favorite scene in the movie. My favorite scene is the defining moment in Eddie King Jr.'s life when he's replaced and the Heartbeats have moved on. He's standing outside the gate looking about as bottom as you can get and they all walk up to him. He's still wearing his outfit from the old days and busts open his coat and says bam! or something like that. One of the guys asks him for his number and he looks up in all seriousness and says "Do I Look Like I Got a Number?" That whole scene gets me everytime.

I was actually touched by the scene near the end when Duck goes to the church and Eddie King is singing in the choir and he's back with baby doll.

Now the Temptations movie- When it originally aired it came on in two parts. I liked the first half and could not wait to see the second half. I was sorely disappointed with it. I watched the movie hoping to find some insight into Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin, Paul Williams and just the group as a whole. But that didn't happen. But I guess thats tv for you. Eddie Kendricks didn't even have a place of residence in the whole movie? The best thing about the movie was hearing all of that great music again. But I can honestly say, now that I have acquired a lot of footage of Temptations performances I don't even watch the movie and I probably would never watch it again. The Five Heartbeats I can watch anytime.
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John Barry Sheffield (jaybs)
4-Laureate
Username: jaybs

Post Number: 84
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.92.168.171
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 2:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karyl,

Many Thanks for that info, soemone told me the company who made the DVD often do multi region, and if the Logo Region 1 is not on it then it is region feee, I will give it a go! as it is not that expensive.

I enjoyed The Temps Mini Series on DVD, but I took it more as enteriainment that all fact.

John
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Frankie B. (frankie_b)
1-Arriviste
Username: frankie_b

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.35.204.20
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I enjoyed the five heartbeats movie a great deal. As a huge fan of the Dells, and knowing their story to some degree, it's pretty close to the movie. I always liked their 50's material, and was kind of bummed out by the scene outside the concert venue (how does it feel to be me?)which appears to be attributed to original lead singer Johnny Funches. Truth or not, I hated to see the guy portrayed in that manner. I did like those cousins of Duck who were always trying to get over in one way or another, such as starting their own record label, "fro-town".
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soulseeker (soulseeker)
4-Laureate
Username: soulseeker

Post Number: 157
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 192.94.3.10
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 7:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But Frankie B. did Johnny Funches really find the Lord and turn his life around as it appeared in the movie?

That is very interesting that this was based on a true story. I thought it was pure fiction with the Dells consulting on music and the period.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2776
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 7:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Frankie B & welcome aboard!

I always read that Johnny Funches left of his own accord, after. From everything that I've read, after Oh What A Night, The Dells went through a serious dry spell & the fellas got a bit discouraged. Actually, after the group was involved in a serious car accident, in which Marvin was seriously injured, The Dells disbanded for a while.

When the fellas decided to give it another go, Johnny decided to stay home, as he had a family & the guys just weren't making money. Not enough for him to feed his family. I would imagine that he grew tired of dealing with the road & the nonsense that they had to deal with, as well. Especially since success always seemed to elude their grasp in those early days. Truthfully, at that point, The Dells simply hadn't found their identity as yet. You can check out the books, Chicago Soul & Chicago Doo Wop, by Robert Pruter for more background about this. I believe that the liner notes of their Anthology CD discusses this as well.

To be honest, I believe that Eddie King Jr was a combination of several singers, but David Ruffin in particular. Almost everything about the character of Eddie King screams David Ruffin. Remember the stories of how David would go to a Temptations show & jump up on stage & sing? I'd be willing to bet that the Eddie King character was predominately inspired by the tales about David Ruffin. The only missing element was Eddie's redemption, as Robert definitely wanted a positive ending.
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soulseeker (soulseeker)
4-Laureate
Username: soulseeker

Post Number: 158
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 68.66.136.189
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 9:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Juice, LOL! Now I'm thoroughly confused.
Is the movie fictional or factual? A combination of both? I can't wait to get to the bottom of this.
Was this question ever answered?
Name the quote that's in BOTH movies.

Ready? Go!

If its in both movies then we know who did the copying, LOL!

I did notice that the Temptations movie has a lot of similiar situations like the heartbeats did.



(Message edited by soulseeker on October 08, 2004)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2787
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Soulseeker,

Initially it was to be a comedy until The Dells pulled Robert's coat about the realities of those days. For him to depict those days of Jim Crow, bigoted police & prejudice, would have been a slap in the face of those whould endured the harsh realities of those days.

Robert followed The Dells around & took a little from what he saw, what they told him & probably some of what he learned from research. The Dells have said that it is loosely based on their experiences, VERY loosely based, at that. If you follow the storyline & read about The Dells, you'll actually find very few similarities between the characters depicted in the movie & those of The Dells.

I guess that you could say that The Dells guided Robert in the right direction & gave him a more thorough perspective of what life was like for the average R&B group in those days. From what I've seen & read about R&B/Soul artists & groups, The Five Heartbeats seem to be a combination of several different artists & group experiences.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2788
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 9:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By the way Soulseeker,

The line was.........

DANNNNNNNGGGGGGG!!!!

I almost died from laughter when he did that, looking all crazy & whatnot.

"I look like I got a number???"

"Nights like this, I-I wish, raindrops would fal-al-al-al-alllllll!"


(Message edited by juicefree20 on October 08, 2004)
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Frankie B. (frankie_b)
1-Arriviste
Username: frankie_b

Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.35.204.20
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 9:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read somewhere right after the movie came out that the five heartbeats were a combination of the stories of the Dells and Tempts. I agree with Juice that the scene I described is probably closer to David Ruffin than Johnny Funches, and in fact, In the Otis Williams book, he describes just such a meeting that he allegedly had with founding temptation Elbridge Bryant after a show in the early 70's. Information on Johnny Funches is very thin with respect to his life after the Dells. Although he left on his own accord, how rough it had to be only five years later to be working a regular day job and hearing "There Is" blasting out the radio once an hour and knowing you could have been there. The final insult comes when he passed away a few years before he should have been up on the stage with the guys at the rock and roll hall of fame ceremony. For all I know, he may have lived a quiet, solid life and may not have needed to find the Lord at the end. I just think it's too bad he never made it to that stage. I thought it was great that his daughters were there with the guys to accept the award. The movie is not solely the story of the Dells, but it follows fairly close. There are some Temptations similarities as well, and the Big Red (does he represent Vee Jay records?) and Bird scene is definitely a re-creation of something that happened to Jackie Wilson while he was with Brunswick. Man, my fingers are numb. Anyway, it's a great movie, and Robert Townsend should do one someday on the Dells themselves, or Chicago DJ Al Benson....that would be a real interesting movie.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2790
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would guess that Big Red is a combination of the following: Duke Robey, Herman Lubinsky & a certain gentleman from Chicago way.

I once posed that very same question about Johnny, just as you stated it. I imagine that it had to be tough for him to have missed out after all of those years of struggle.
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 120
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.237.47.181
Posted on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 4:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Btw, I'm looking at the back of my DVD of 'The Five Heartbeats' and I don't see "Region One". It does say "bonus features" in a blue box. Next to the box is a photo of the 'Five Heartbeats.'

Another thought. I wondered, perhaps, if Eddie was David Ruffin and Baby-Doll was Tammi Terrell.

Arcadia
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soulseeker (soulseeker)
4-Laureate
Username: soulseeker

Post Number: 159
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 68.66.136.189
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 4:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Another thought. I wondered, perhaps, if Eddie was David Ruffin and Baby-Doll was Tammi Terrell. "

Awww! Someone must have really wanted them to have a happy ending if it was.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2806
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 5:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know, I never though of the Babydoll character as being based on Tammi. The Eddie King/David Ruffin parallel, I can see. Babydoll was basically there for continuity of the story & the theme of loyalty, as we see that after all of the grief, in the end, she was by Eddie's side.

I saw no parallels between her & Tammi & that's why I say that the movie was based on various different people & experiences. Most real life stories like that just didn't have happy endings. The ending of this movie was obviously about friendship & love conquering over all. It was also about redemption & the ending was meant to be both touching & positive.
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marilyn (marilyn)
4-Laureate
Username: marilyn

Post Number: 101
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 209.142.136.38
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 2:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, I just finished watching The Five Heartbeats...The credits list Billy Valentine as doing Michael Wright's vocals...According to BlockBuster, the movie is a combination of The Dells, The Temptations, Frankie Lymon, Sam Cooke, & others...

The part in the movie where Choir Boy tells his father that, "God gave me this voice" reminds me of what I heard Sam Cooke's father told him when he was considering doing secular music...

Marilyn :-)
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soulseeker (soulseeker)
4-Laureate
Username: soulseeker

Post Number: 160
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 68.66.136.189
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 7:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Marilyn!
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Frankie B. (frankie_b)
1-Arriviste
Username: frankie_b

Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.35.204.20
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 10:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought of one more Dells similarity. In the movie, the guys get very upset when the photo of them that was supposed to be on their first album cover is replaced with a generic scene of a white couple. If you have ever seen a copy of the Dells first album, released on Vee Jay in 1959, there is a nondescript white couple embracing on the lakefront on the front cover and what would have been a great cover photo of the group on the back. I was not alive at that time, and can not speak from the viewpoint that album covers of that sort helped the group "cross over" to white audiences. I do collect vinyl, however, and the very next Vee Jay album features a full size color shot of Wade Flemons, grinning from ear to ear, gold tooth and all, so maybe it varied from artist to artist as to who the company was or was not trying to target as the core audience. I do know for a fact that the Dells album today fetches three times or better what you can get a Wade Flemons LP for.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2824
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 10:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn.

Thanks for the info about Mr. Valentine. Dis they mention who the other voices were? Now, I'd really love to see a full recording of the movie version of "A Heart Is A House For Love".

Just like Sam heard those words, many of the 50s - 60s singers heard the same thing. Back then many were from the South & back then those old school families took religion seriously. For a Gospel singer to sing R&B, better known as "The Devil's Music" was considered heresy. Those early singers must have felt torn & I wonder if the duality of their lifestyles led to many of their personal problems?
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einnod23 (einnod23)
3-Pundit
Username: einnod23

Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 208.27.111.121
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 1:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oooooh
Ever since
I met you girl
It's been here today
gone tomorrow....

...Every night with you
keeps me holding on.....
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FrankM (frankm)
3-Pundit
Username: frankm

Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.152.61.19
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Five Heartbeats may have been about the Dells but they looked like the Temptations."

Robert went on the road with The Dells but the film is obviously a loose version of the Tempatations story. I'm with Juice in that the lead singer is based on David Ruffin. Of course Robert would use stories from the Dells to illustrate certain points. How many black artists had white or occasionally black female models on tehir album covers? He could not say the film was about the Temptations or there would have been legal actions flying all over the place.

I'm looking for The Temptations story on DVD and I hope I'll enjoy it as much as The Five Heartbeats but sometimes you can tell the truth with a fictional story.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2827
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Frankie B,

I alwaus thought that the situation involving the LP, was based more on the situation The Isley Brothers & the Motown LP. If you remember, Motown decided to put a picture of a White couple on their "This Old Heart Of Mine" LP cover.

I feel that it was more grievous in The Isleys case, as they had a few successful songs before they recorded This Old Heart. On the other hand, The Dells had only one hit up the point of their first LP release & that was in 1956. To me, it was a huge slap in the face to The Isleys, who were also newcomers to Motown & This Old Heart was a major hit. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, that incident was discussed most unfavorably & received much attention. However, it is quite possible that it was The Dells who inspired it. The Isleys situation got more attention, as they were coming off of a major hit.
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Frankie B. (frankie_b)
1-Arriviste
Username: frankie_b

Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.35.204.20
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Juice! You are correct. I forgot about that Isleys album altogether! Pretty good tunes on that album too. Another good song of theirs that is not on that LP is "Thats the way love is". Lots of horns.
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marilyn (marilyn)
4-Laureate
Username: marilyn

Post Number: 103
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 147.174.1.163
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 10:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have the video with me now, but the only other voices I remember being mentioned were Tressa Thomas & Troy Beyer...I wonder if the other actors, like "Bird" & "Flash" actually sang their own parts,too?

Marilyn :-)
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soulseeker (soulseeker)
4-Laureate
Username: soulseeker

Post Number: 162
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 24.53.234.93
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 11:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did somebody answer that?

What were the two quotes used in both movies?
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einnod23 (einnod23)
3-Pundit
Username: einnod23

Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 208.27.111.121
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Dresser, take the bass..."

Look here, baby
don't need no diamonds
don't need no pearls
as long as I got you
I'm the king of the world.....
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Arcadia (arcadia)
4-Laureate
Username: arcadia

Post Number: 126
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.237.17.170
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David Ruffin, HIT IT!

I don't need no money, fortune, or fame.
I've got all the riches baby one man can claim.
I guess you'd say
What can make me feel this way?
My girl (my girl, my girl)
Talkin' 'bout my girl (my girl).
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marilyn (marilyn)
4-Laureate
Username: marilyn

Post Number: 114
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 147.174.232.211
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two wrongs don't make it right, but too wrong was the night I kept you guessing...
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einnod23 (einnod23)
3-Pundit
Username: einnod23

Post Number: 47
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 24.90.14.159
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Let's do Shy Brotha!"

"Two Heartbeats in one night. Your brother just went upstairs!"

(Message edited by einnod23 on October 15, 2004)
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DTURNER@GRUDETROIT.USCG. (peanut757)
1-Arriviste
Username: peanut757

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 152.121.36.65
Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 1:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As good as both movies are, I like the Tempts movie a little bit better. Eventhough I feel like it was tailored to Otis's by Otis and for Otis, it was a good movie. The benefit of being here in Detroit is that you can speak to the locals that were here during that time and even the ones that were there in the begining to tell you the real truth.

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