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  isaiah imani (isaiah) 4-Laureate Username: isaiah Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.119.33.167 |
http://www.africana.com/articl es/daily/mu20040204hathaway.as p As we were discussing the abbreviated lives and careers of two icons of this music, and speculating on their potential had they lived, this giant entered my mind... It's unfortunate that his name gets such short shrift because his career was short, and somewhat spotty, but he easily compares to Sam or Marvin in terms of pure vocal talent, and the man was a better musician that both of them combined and duplicated 10 times... Oddly enough, I think he is probably not going to get a lot of consideration in a comparison with the aforementioned because we are, unconsciously, swayed by appearances, and that's where the comparisons oft end... Yeah, it is superficial, but as so many things are based on speed and quickness in our world, sometimes even good analysis falls by the wayside as we quickly make our decisions... Enjoy the article... Let's celebrate a giant in his own right... Mr. Donny Hathaway... Peace! Isaiah | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2602 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Isaiah, what's up? I agree that Donny is very underrated by the public. I believe that amongst musicians & entertainers that Donny is well respected! As I thought about your assessment, I would say that his appearance may have been a factor. I believe that his appearance was mostly important to himself, than it was to the label execs. It affected his psyche & his confidence. He compared himself physically to others & found himself lacking. I never heard or read of anyone disparaging Donny for his looks. Actually, he was more disparaged for his eccentricities, amongst the music industry & the musicians. To a man, they recognized Donny as an immense talent. Unfortunately, due to his habits & ways in the studio, they regarded him as being just a little bit way out there, kind of a spacy person. For a little insight to this, check Jerry Wexler's, "The Rhythm & The Blues". You've gotta admit that there were some folks in the 60s & 70s that made out pretty well, whom were considered to be not very attractive. Remember how some not very nice things were said about James & his looks back then? Also, Solomon Burke & Barry White weren't little men either & they did pretty well for themselves. Appearances weren't as important at that time. To me, it wasn't until the advent of "VIDEOITIS", the disease spawned by MTV, New York Hot Tracks & other shows of that ilk, that these things became major issues in the industry. That was when the music industry & "the beautiful people" decided that "image was everything", talent, not too important. That's when we got all of these non-singing stick figures & half dressed pipe cleaners with thongs & midriffs stuffed down our throats. Meanwhile, talented sisters like Martha Wash, Cheryl Lynn & Jennifer Holliday were shunned & treated with the utmost of disrespect, some suffering the indignity of being relegated to singing from behind the curtain, so to speak, while some half-dressed stick figure lip synched on the video & got the acclaim. But, the 60s & 70s??? Think back to the days when sisters were applauded for having "a little somethin' special". I know you remember when sisters like Chaka were appreciated for looking "HEALTHY" & her LP posters hung on the walls of 99.9% of us fellas & some of the ladies too! Diamond in the back...oooh, oooh ooooh indeed  When I think about how many regard Donny, let me get analytical & try to explain what I think happened. I think that his music was infused with large doses of Gospel & Jazz. His rhythms, chords & textures were too Jazz & Gospel in nature for many people to appreciate. You have to consider that the average Soul & Pop songs were based primarily on 3 Major chords & a 4/4 beat. Donny's songs sometimes had time signature changes that didn't lend themselves to smooth dancing, at times. Rhythm is everything & brothers like a pocket to their groove. Even some of his ballads weren't conducive to slow grinding. You could be dancing cheek to cheek, when suddenly, a foreign time signature change came along & completely threw you off. Those changes were common place & cool for Jazz, for Soul brothers trying to mack a lady....it could make you seem a bit klutzy. Musically, Donny had the soul of a Jazz man. Most of his songs were written in minor keys, which by their nature are darker & more brooding. Even a dancable & funky song like The Ghetto, was dark & ominous in sound. As I've stated, most of our Soul hits have revolved around happy major keys & a consistent tempo & rhythm. Most of Donny's music had an underlying tension & given his inner torment, in retrospect, that seems fitting. That's what I think was the problem. Donny was a brother whom only the hippest of the hip understood & got. Donny wasn't like many other Soul men of that era. Actually, I think that Gamble & Huff picked up where Donny was at musically & made it more accessible for the Soul Brothers. They too used those minor chords, rhythms & tempo changes (i.e. Backstabbers & Living For The Weekend) & made them sound slick & made them a little more acceptable to the masses. Donny was too deep for the average music listener. Donny was deep! What do you think of my assessment?? | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 5-Doyen Username: 1wicked Post Number: 310 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
IMHO, Donny Hathaway just came and went too soon. Among those who were mature enough to hear Donny Hathaway while he was alive (live or record)...there is still a "love affair" with the music...and there's never a negative word about the man. It's just that he kinda left us hangin' with minimal recorded output...and the only "radio friendly" cuts that someone younger might hear in the years since his passing are "The Closer I Get To You" and "Back Together". With Donny, it's like..."You had to be there"...otherwise you just don't get it. (Yeah Juice...he was REAL DEEP !!) | ||
DenvrMotownLvr (john) 2-Debutant Username: john Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.9.226.3 |
When you look up soul in the dictionary, Donny's picture should be next to the word. Juicefree20, I think you hit the nail on the head, although most people enjoyed his music, musicians were the ones that truly "got it". Im not sure if many know that in addition to the beautiful voice, he was also a master musician, composer and arranger. Every so often, I play the "Donny Hathaway Live!" album and I'm still blown away by his singing and playing. (and the fantastic bass playing of Willie Weeks) On his album "Everything is Everything" he does his verion of the song "Misty" that sounds good to this very day. You don't hear music like that anymore. | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 305 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.134 |
As far as Donny's looks, he was such a handsome brown hunk in my eyes, and he could sing! | ||
Moan (moanman) 2-Debutant Username: moanman Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.119.145.245 |
Dag! I can�t, and won�t even try to touch Juice�s comments on the man and his music from the straight-up analytical tip. That's a li�l piece �o brilliance, bruh. I just know Donny moved me, deep in my soul, in the way that most forceful Gospel singer in Baptist church sways an entire congregation with the powerful majesty and heart-bearing sensitivity of their chops. He had that goose-bump thing going spades, yo. I mean, as a kid, I�d see him on the tube and think: �Man! Now that�s a singer!� Back then, I knew little, if anything of his struggles, his personal difficulties, his battles in or out of the industry, and I could not have cared less. The Brother was just simply Blessed with something so rare, vocally, musically, and as a writer, that put him in a league in which few others played. He could, and did, serenade the heart, head and solar plexus. Now that I think about it, perhaps some of those issues fed directly into the soul of his artistry. You note the twinges of Jazz, Blues, Gospel R & B, you hear the soft, hard, and then bittersweet nuances imbedded his vocals, and more than that, you *feel* them. It�s like the History of Black People petered through this man�s larynx. Only Ray Charles comes to mind in touching on the myriad of those emotional elements. But Donny, he was a far more *lyrical* singer-- no disrespect intended. Surely, if he were considered more aesthetically pleasing to the eye, if his struggle with weight had not been a factor, perhaps his appeal would have reached a larger audience. Just, perhaps. It might have made him a more "marketable" commodity. Hate those words. Yet, no matter the wideness or vastness one�s talent, in the Biz of Show, people do like to look at pretty things. How sad, how tragic is that? It hurts my heart to even write those words. This Brother was beyond beautiful when he sang. His singing made him angelic, sexy, righteous. I still own him on wax, and nothing moves, soothes, grooves or relaxes me more on a Sunday afternoon than a potent dose of Donny. He was and is a very Beautiful cat, and that beauty emanates from his vocals. He was a "Giant", indeed. It would be interesting to see what might have happened to him in the years that followed. Career-wise, I�ve no doubt he would have produced more hits, written more of those lasting songs, and perhaps even delved into film scoring. There were/are plenty of opportunities behind the scene for cats as gifted, profound and blessed as Donny Hathaway. Imagine what he could have done with the likes of a Luther, Brian McKnight, Seal, Jill Scott, Anita Baker, Lizz Wright, etc. Hell, because they both share perpetual space in my CD changer, I would have loved to have heard him work alongside Nina Simone. Talk about your goosebump moments. Sad that he left us when he did, the way he did, when the composition of his life and potential was so tragically unfinished. To my mind, the possibilities of what *could* have been, and SHOULD have been, seem endless. Thanks for blessing us w/ this article, papa. One. (Message edited by Moanman on October 02, 2004) | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2621 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Thanks everyone for understanding what I was trying to say. You know, sometimes I must sound as though I resent today's singers. That's not really the case. I was a DJ from '77 right up to the mid '90s & loved much of the music being made. I must admit that I loved them more for their groove than I did for any deep meaningful lyrics. For the most part, meaningful lyrics pretty much ceased to exist, as the groove became king. That's fine & good, however, there's more to life than songs with lyrics like: "Bitch, you did me wrong", "I wanna knock your boots", "I'm gonna shoot you n***ga", "5-0 always messin wit me", "Where My N****as at", "I got more cash that you, more ice than you, I use more condoms too", " I slings lots of bricks", "Why you hatin' on me" & "I got a Platinum whip, lots of grip, all the honeys on my tip". What turned me off was the fact that all of the music started sounding like reality shows. Some fake ass contrived nonsense that played DOWN to every negative stereotype possible. These were no longer songs of hope, they were no longer songs of enrichment. What I started hearing was a bunch of crap that repeated the same negative mantras continually, until they became a self fulfilling prophecy. What the majority of the new jacks did was accentuate the negative & constantly harp on it. They rarely balanced it with thoughts from the other side of the coin. Basically, in my eyes, they became peddlers of death. These days on any radio station, on any video show, in the space of one hour, you'll hear & see more violence, denigration of women & self hatred, than the average person experiences in a month. See, when I was growing up, even as Gamble & Huff warned us about the love of money & what it could do to us, they'd balance that out with a song like Love Train. Though they wrote about love's problems on songs like Be For Real, 992 Arguments, If You Don't Know Me & I Miss You, they also showed us the joy with songs like You Know How To Make Me Feel So Good & Sunshine. There was a balance. For every negative, they gave us a positive image as well. Even after warning songs about Backstabbers, Survival, they'd hit us with some possible solutions with songs like Wake Up Everybody. Even a song about having Bad Luck, ended with hope, coming through the Creator. Our music had heart, it had soul, it had hope & it looked forward to bigger & better things. Our music had a dream! Today's music is missing much of that & often has a myopicaly negative outlook about everything. That negativity, has lead to countless ARTISTS losing their lives over SONGS!!! OVER SONGS!!! Think about that! Whereas music was once a vehicle to push us forward & improve lives, it became an excuse to TAKE lives. That's what I hate most about today's music. It seems as though the intent is to strip others of their pride, of their self worth, of their heart, hell, their very souls. Men like Donny wrote LOVE SONGS about their beautiful women, not about their cheatin' ho. Brothers back then knew the art of seduction & subtlety. Back then, we knew damn well what Major Harris & New Birth meant when they sang some of those lyrics. But to me, the subtlety was the thing. Any idiot can write "Let me hit it from the back, then ride it like a pony, you ho". For some reason, it just doesn't have quite the same ring as let's say, "I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know". That's what I miss about our music & that's what I miss about true artists like Donny Hathaway. Hey Sam, Donny, Jackie, everybody....Look what they done to our songs. Look what they've done to us. Look what they've done to our legacy  (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 02, 2004) (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 02, 2004) | ||
Kdubya (paladin) 5-Doyen Username: paladin Post Number: 378 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 139.67.220.25 |
Like some of the rest of you I thought Donny was true genius. I have seen him perform live and I was watching up close and personal a bright and shining star. Donny was about to blow up, here was a man at home with Count Basie or Stevie Wonder,it didn't really matter to him. He just left us way too soon. Les McCann said it best "He was making it real, compared to What?" We may never know if he jumped or fell......and maybe thats best, maybe not, I really dont know. But I do know this... Donny was and will always be the man. Kdubya | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 809 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.113.16 |
Donny Hathaway, one of the most incredible(sp)?Singers of all time. I mean a song would just flow from his lips, saturated with the passions of deep raw soul, dipped in silk. What's so chilling, is his daughter Layla Hathaway, when you really listen to her sing, you can actually hear Donny in there. | ||
Kevin Goins - KevGo (kevgo) 5-Doyen Username: kevgo Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 64.33.204.11 |
One word comes to mind when I hear Donny Hathaway - GENIUS! He took soul & pop to another level with his brilliant arrangements and great singing. As far as his physical image, Donny was IMHO a healthy looking young man even though he felt uncomfortable with his self-image. I do agree with Juice's comments - if MTV was around since the beginning of the rock/R&B era, folks like Donny, Billy Stewart and Mama Cass Eliott would not have had a prayer. Not many folks realize that Donny did some great behind the scenes work before he finally "blew up" on the scene in 1970. For example... Donny was an in-house arranger for Curtom Records - he was hired by label partner Eddie Thomas. Donny arranged "Choice Of Colors" for the Impressions. He also arranged "The Court Of Love" and "The Beginning Of My End" for his college pals the Unifics (both tunes were Top 10 R&B/Top 40 Pop hits). Donny was on electric piano for Aretha Franklin's hit "Until You Come Back To Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do)". Kevin Goins - KevGo | ||
John Doe (wfw) 1-Arriviste Username: wfw Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 24.36.63.14 |
Juicefree, you're a great writer and you expressed almost exactly how I feel about Donny Hathaway, and about the state of today's music scene. Good work. I would add one thing to what you said. I believe that somewhere along the way, black music lost much of its "realness". What I mean by that is, it no longer conveyed real emotions and feelings. To my mind, that's what makes great, timeless, powerful music: real emotions, and real feelings - straight from the heart. In much of today's music the only emotion is anger, or other negative emotions. There's nothing uplifting or inspiring about it. What makes an artist great is their ability to show vulnerability and truly bare their musical soul to the world. Bring back the realness. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 2654 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
John Doe, Thank you for the compliment The only emotions that seem to be conveyed by today's music are anger, greed & selfishness. Those seem to be the major threads that permeate 90% of the songs that I hear these days. It's not so surprising when you really think about it. Everything about today's society is about "Me, Me, Me" & immediate gratification. There's little thought to true art. The most profound song that I've heard lately is....... Now that I think about it, I can't name one. Even the songs that are supposed to be inspirational, feel contrived. I Believe I Can Fly was a good song, but The World's Greatest came across as derivative & fake. It was contrived & had zero heart! Look at what passes for great TV these days. Millions of people sit in front of their TVs weekly & watch....OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES!!! Not everyday folks lives, but some fake contrived garbage like "Survivor", "Big Brother", "Blind Date", "The Bachelor", "Fear Factor", "Extreme Makeover", "The Apprentice", "Wife Swap", ad infinitum!! What this type of "entertainment" (and I use that word loosely) says to us is this: "Your lives are so boring & empty, you're so damn brain dead, that you will waste hours of your lives, watching other people live theirs, even though it's contrived!!!" Think about it...instead of GOING on a date, there are many poor souls WATCHING Blind Date!! What the hell is so interesting about someone living in a house with a camera rolling anyway? Then, they create all of this bullshit drama: "OOH, you got chocolate in my peanut butter...HOW could you, HOW COULD YOOOOOOOUUU!!!!" Then they fall in the floor & faint at the horror of it all. Are our lives THAT boring, that we have to watch this nonsense??? The networks seem to think so! Then....all of the daytime talk shows & their "Baby Mama Drama". I can't believe how many people are willing to show their ignorance & stupidity to the world, to be saved for posterity on a DVD coming soon to your local Blockbuster! I especially dislike folks like Maury Povich, who encourage this & pimp peoples' misery & foolishness. Even after failing on the 5th attempt at finding some tramps' 3 babies daddies & finding that the DNA excludes the 10 men he had tested, he further encourages the young lady to test an additional 25 men, spread over 4 shows, of course! Then we have Survivor, where people are whisked away to try to survive various trials, etc. yada, yada, yada, in a controlled set of circumstances & Fear Factor, which only shows that some people will do anything for money & 15 minutes of fame. They want Reality TV?? They want to be "Survivors"??? They want an element of Fear to Factor??? Tell you what, drop off the contestants at the following locales: Brownsville, East New York or Bed Stuy, Brooklyn, N.Y. The Cabrini-Green Projects in Chi-Town, The South Jamaica Projects in Queens, Fort Greene Projects in Brooklyn, Overbrook in Florida, Chocolate City in Washington, Compton or Watts in Cali. In fact, I hear that Iraq & Afghanistan are REALLY lovely this time of year. Survivors, my gluteous maximus!If they're "Survivors" of these REAL LIFE "Fear Factors" that they're sure to encounter, I'll be impressed! Worst of all, are the shows like "The Bachelor". After centuries of women fighting for equality, these bimbos shameless parade themselves before a strang man, in hopes of hitting the financial lottery. This guy could be an axe murderer, a rapist, a no goodnik!!! No matter, he's cute & they think that he has money....LOTS OF MONEY!!!! And..........THEY ALL WANT SOME OF IT!! So much for love, honor & respect, huh! Way to be role models girls!!! So when you really think about it, these are the kinds of values that today's artists are growing up with. They're growing up in a "ME first, it's all about me" society & it can't help but play itself out in the music they write & the images that they portray. They're surrounded by this garbage, that is meant to dull the senses of the masses, in hopes that they never wake up to the REAL problems of the world & how to combat them. These factors contribute to why we have no current Donny Hathaways or Curtis Mayfields. These were men of love, of hope & of selflessness. These men wrote of bettering conditions for the MASSES! Today, they write songs that are selfish. They're interested in making THEIR OWN lives better, not that of the greater good. They offer no helping hand, no solutions & most of all, no love to anyone but themselves & their n***gas or b**ches. Of course, they'd shoot their n***ga, if they owed them 75 cents. And they said that Donny had problems!! Ain't that a bitch!! (Message edited by juicefree20 on October 03, 2004) | ||
Kdubya (paladin) 5-Doyen Username: paladin Post Number: 382 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 152.132.8.197 |
Medusa, Lalah Hathaway is something else. I have her recorded works with Joe Sample and two of her CDs, she seemed most at home though being produced by Angela Winbush. I dont know if anything happened between them but her first Lp was great, you could clearly hear Angelas influence on the record as well as her backing vocals. Lalah has left all traces of that influence behind and she is indeed a wonderful singer, her rendition of Fever with Joe Sample is dead on. She is a very talented but underated singer. She deserves all the props that she is given and then some......Donny left us a precious jewel indeed.... | ||
kevin quinn (kevin_quinn) 2-Debutant Username: kevin_quinn Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 141.151.91.190 |
Juicefree: That was a great analysis of Donny's music. You had to be so much of an "involved" listener to get into Donny's records and once you did, you got in deep. You had to be ready to swing with him from "A Song For You" to "Magnificient Sanctuary Band" on his 2nd record, for example, as he showcased his many styles and talents. His covers ran the table from Ray Charles to Danny O'Keefe, John Lennon and Blood, Sweat & Tears. I just think that the general record buying public couldn't keep up with him or yearned for him to do a record that had an extended groove through the whole production. That's maybe why he never broke big time as a solo artist. But that's what he finally so expertly captured on the "Live" album from '72 IMO. "Extension Of A Man" was always the highpoint for me especially, "Flying Easy, Valdez, Love, Love, Love, Come Little Children & I Know It's You." It's a very haunting album especially when you look back and see it was his last solo effort. |
