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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 663
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 5:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this has been discussed but I need a review! Why were these ladies in and out of Motown so fast?
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Ron Murphy (ron_murphy)
4-Laureate
Username: ron_murphy

Post Number: 160
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.42.90.140
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 7:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

they were with Harry Balk's Impact label here in Detroit, when Mr. Balk ceased the Impact/Inferno operations he joined Motown and took a couple of the artist's like the
Lollipops and The Volumes along with him. .

I would guess after a short time and seeing they were just one of about 250 signed acts they asked for and got their release.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 664
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 7:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks Ron
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 673
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.134
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did anyone ever hear their Motown record?
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Lars Nilsson (lg_nilsson)
2-Debutant
Username: lg_nilsson

Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 83.226.11.187
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Jimmy Mack,

I have their Motown single.

A-side is “Cheating, Is Telling On You”. V.I.P. 25051A released Oct-69. It was originally scheduled for release on Gordy 7089-A.

 VIP25051A.jpg

Other side is “Need Your Love”. Originally scheduled for release on Gordy 7089-B.

 VIP25051B.jpg

Both are midtempo. I like the B-side a bit more but this is not one of the greatest singles Motown recorded!

Lars
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 573
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.24.217
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jimmy Mack: I think both the Lollipops' VIP cuts are excellent, and they also had at least one other recording in the master tape vaults, which I saw and heard: "Look What You've Done Boy". It was also recorded in 1969. It is also very high quality. These recordings were recorded by Motown, so had more full background tracks than the Lollipops' Impact/Inferno Records (although both Harry balk and Duke Browner were still involved in their production. The unreleased cut was booted in UK, and played on the Northern soul scene.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 676
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.134
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great thanks guys--do we know who the Lollipops were?
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1691
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.46.134
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is also Lollipops on Jamie, with a song called "The happiest birthday party of my life, circa 1963, a'la a Red Bird type of record.
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roy gennard (hitsville_chalky)
2-Debutant
Username: hitsville_chalky

Post Number: 12
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 82.37.210.74
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

have you heard step a side baby by the lollipops this is awesome i think this was done at motown.
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 574
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.30.70
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chalky: What evidence do you have that "Step Aside Baby' was recorded at Motown? It was on Impact 1021 (ZTSC 121529) 1965 -BEFORE Harry Balk joined with Motown. It was distributed by Solid hitbound Productions, I believe. Mike Terry arranged it. It doesn't sound like a Motown recording. The three songs listed above sound like they were recorded at Motown, as do the Volumes on the Motown distributed and pressed Inferno, and The Detroit Wheels on the Motown Inferno. ALL of those recordings in the Motown master tapes, AND on the Motown-distributed and pressed Balk labels (as well as his artists on Motown labels sound much DIFFERENT from the Solid Hitbound and Golden World distributed Impact/Inferno recordings. (Although it sounds very good) I believe "Step Aside Baby" was NOT recorded at Motown.

On another note, answering Jimmy Mack's question, regarding who they were: Arenita Walker wrote two songs they recorded (one on Impact, the other on VIP. I believe she must be one of the group's members.

Bobby,-The Lollipops on Jamie were DEFINATELY a different group. They were from The East Coast, and also recorded "He's The Boy" on Mercury, and several records on RCA. I think that group was from NYC. I believe they also recorded in NYC. They had a more "girls group" sound (very good, I might add). The lead's voice is not nearly as strong or soulful as the lead of the Detroit group. Don't get me wrong-they were quite soulful, too. Charlie Fox and Joe Rene produced their RCA sides, and Teacho Wiltshire arranged them. "Love Is The only Answer" -(RCA 8390) is great. It was a N.Y.C. Jobete song, written by George Kerr's partner, Stanley Ossman. The flip, Don't Monkey With Me", was written by prolific Girls group writer, Larry Kusik.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 678
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.134
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did Motowns Lollipops go to another label after Motown?
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1694
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.46.134
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Robb,
The Jamie one was produced by Bob Finiz and arranged by Pep Lattanzi.
It was recorded at Jamie's old studio, kind of a "Joe Meekish" affair, before 919 was open..
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 576
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.196.244
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the info, Bobby. I think I remember seeing Bob Finiz's name on one or two of their RCA records. So that confirms that the RCA and Jamie groups were the same (and I'm sure the Mercury group is also the East Coast Group). So, like a lot of East Coast groups, they recorded both in NY and Philly.

Jimmy Mack: Did The Lollipops go on appearing and recording in the '70s? That's a question I'd like to know the answer to, also. I've looked through literally millions of records (mostly during the '50s and '60s, a little in the '70s). But, I tended to gloss over '70s labels without really looking closely, so I can't claim to be an expert there. However, for what little it means, I don't remember seeing any Lollipops records after the VIP release. Those women may have left the business; split up and gone solo, or to separate groups;or changed their group name to fit the '70s style names. I have no idea. I don't remember, however, seeing Arenita Walker's name on any records released in the '70s.
I hope someone else on this forum will be able to tell us.

Jimmy Mack
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roy gennard (hitsville_chalky)
2-Debutant
Username: hitsville_chalky

Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 82.37.210.74
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi rob k i cant be 100% that step aside baby was done at motown ive got the track on cd with motown artist like marv johnson monitors chris clark supremes choker campbell four tops temptations kim weston brenda holloway marvin gaye smokey robinson supremes shorty long its a boot leg cd all the tracks are supposed to be from motown vaults there is only to be 5 cds about anywhere if you would like one ill copy for you.
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roy gennard (hitsville_chalky)
2-Debutant
Username: hitsville_chalky

Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 82.37.210.74
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi rob k your right step aside baby was on on impact 1021 lovin good feelin/ step aside baby 1967 ive just got my magic book out and checked i still find it strange to be on that cd just proves dont always belive what people tell you thanks rob
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Davie Gordon (davie_gordon)
5-Doyen
Username: davie_gordon

Post Number: 246
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.157.157.19
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's my listing of records issued by various groups called the Lollipops, Lolly-Pops and /or
The Lollypops. They're listed in chronological order
of release date and hopefully differentiate the
groups that used the name(s).

This should not be taken as gospel - it's the best I can do at the moment from available information.

If anybody would like to add missing writer / producer credits it would be very helpful.

Davie


============================== =================
THE LOLLYPOPS

Holland 7420 11/58
BELIEVE IN ME
MY LOVE IS REAL

============================== ============================== =========

THE LOLLIPOPS (West Coast - LA ?)

Warner Bros. 5122 11/59
LITTLE DONKEY
MISTER SANTA

this Warner Bros.group might be connected to Becky and The Lollipops

============================== ============================== ========

THE LOLLYPOPS

Kandee 6001 11/62
DREAM STREET [Lee DeSapio]
DEAR NORMAN [Lee DeSapio]

============================== ============================== =========

THE LOLLIPOPS (New York ?)

RCA 8344 03/64
PEGGY GOT ENGAGED
I'LL SET MY LOVE TO MUSIC

RCA 8390 07/64
DON'T MONKEY WITH ME (Ronny Douglas,Larry Kusik)
LOVE IS THE ONLY ANSWER (Lonnie Levister,Stanley Ossman)
Prod : Joe Rene arr - Teacho Wiltshire

RCA 8430 09/64
BIG BROTHER
BILLY, BILLY, BABY
Prod : Joe Rene ?

RCA 8494 12/64
BUSY SIGNAL (Rene Malou)
I WANT YOU BACK AGAIN
Prod : Joe Rene arr : Charlie Fox

============================== ============================== =========

THE LOLLIPOPS (Philadelphia ?)

Jamie 1283 08/64 (as THE LOLLY-POPS)
HAPPIEST BIRTHDAY PARTY OF MY LIFE (Harry Moffitt)
TOUGH (Bob Finiz)
Prod : Bob Finiz

Smash 2057 09/66
HE'S THE BOY (Carlucci, Grasso, Venneri)
GEE WHIZ BABY (Carlucci, Grasso, Venneri)
Prod : Billy Carl - Joe Venneri

SSS Intl. 777 08/69
YOU DON'T KNOW
FEEL SO COMFORTABLE (Ginger Greco)
Prod : Joe Venneri ?

============================== ============================== ========

THE LOLLIPOPS (Nashville ?)

Mike 1017 mid-60'S
YEAH, YEAH TEARDROPS (Robert Riley)
I'M SO GRATEFUL (Robert Riley)

============================== ============================== ========

THE LOLLIPOPS (Danish)

Vault 926 1966
WHO CARES ABOUT ME
WORDS AIN'T ENOUGH
============================== ============================== =========


THE LOLLIPOPS (Detroit)

Impact 1021 12/66
LOVING GOOD FEELING (Duke Browner)
STEP ASIDE BABY (Duke Browner, Arenita Walker)
Prod : Duke Browner arr - Mike Terry

V.I.P. 25051 10/69
CHEATING IS TELLING ON YOU (Duke Browner, Arenita Walker)
NEED YOUR LOVE (Duke Browner)
Prod : Duke Browner arr - Paul Riser
[scheduled to be issued as Gordy 7089 around 06/69 but release cancelled)

V.I.P. unissued
LOOK WHAT YOU DONE BOY on CD : Tamla Motown Connosseurs - VOL. 2
LOOK WHAT YOU DONE BOY on CD : Motown : Year By Year 1969
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 580
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.195.143
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the discography, Davie. I think you're right that The WB group was a local West-Coast (L.A.)group. I'm guessing that the RCA and Smash groups are the same. Not sure about The Jamie group as I don't remember what it sounds like. I think it was kind of "poppish" and it might not be the NY group, after all.

Was The Lollipops on Vault really a Danish group? If so, it was a weird item to end up on vault. I lived in Denmark part of 1966 (as for much of the '70s -'90s, and don't remember the group).

The Robert Riley productions are no doubt out of The South. But that doesn't mean those Lollipops are a different group from the NY or Philly group. Lots of East Coast artists and groups recorded in Nashville, Atlanta and Memphis; and lots of Southern artists/groups went up to NYC & Philly to record for most of their careers, only to record with a local label for a small percentage of their careers. The titles of the Mike Record look very familiar to me-yet I haven't seen it. I believe I have those cuts pressed on a major label (leased masters or dist.-pressing agreement). Unfortunately, I can't remember the label, and I won't be with my 45s for another month.

I think I remember hearing the record on Kandee, and it is very "poppish". I'm guessing that that one and the ones on Holland and WB are "White pop groups". I don't know the SSS International record, but I'm guessing it's the same group as was on Mike. Maybe it IS a Southern group, and NOT the East Coast group?
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Heikki (heikki)
4-Laureate
Username: heikki

Post Number: 129
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.17.199.27
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Robb_k!

Yes, that was the Danish group; one of my all-time hate groups along with the Herman's Hermits and the Kinks.
They were young schoolboys singing in bad English, but still very popular in Scandinavian countries.

Best regards
Heikki
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 581
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.195.143
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I remember, Becky & The Lollipops (Epic)sounded like voices similar to the RCA group.
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Jimmy Mack (luke)
6-Zenith
Username: luke

Post Number: 679
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.134
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

H--why do u hate the Kinks?I can understand Herman Hermits tho.
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Heikki (heikki)
4-Laureate
Username: heikki

Post Number: 130
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.17.193.223
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jimmy!

In music I always look for good singers.
Did I just open up a can of worms?

Heikki
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Davie Gordon (davie_gordon)
5-Doyen
Username: davie_gordon

Post Number: 250
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.157.157.220
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robb,

Becky and the Lollipops was just one of the names
used by an LA group made up of the daughters of
writer/producer George Motola and his wife Rickie
Page. I get the impression their lineup on any given record was whoever was available to get to the studio that day. They also recorded for Motown
- they're Joanne and the Triangles on VIP.

Now for the East Coast Lollipops - the reasons I've separated the group on RCA from the one on Jamie/Smash and SSS Intl. is that all the evidence
points to Philadelphia.

Bob Finiz prodeuced the Jamie single.

He was also involved with a Philly group called Billy and The Essentials who had releases on
among others JAmie, Smash and SSS Intl.
Billy Carl (aka Billy Carlucci) the lead for Billy and The Essentials is one of the producers of the Lollipops single on Smash and presumably the
SSS Intl. single - Carlucci and Venneri had
a production deal with Mercury/Smash when
Shelby Singleton was still one of the A&R chiefs
at Mercury. When he left to set up the SSS Intl.
label Carlucci and Venneri followed him to the new label.

I don't think this set of Lollipops is the same
as the one on RCA because the Jamie single
was issued while the RCA group were still on RCA.
If they were the same group you'd think they'd try
a bit harder to hide their "moonlighting" than
to call themselves the Lolly-Pops.

Thanks for the feedback about the other groups -
we might never know who exactly they were -
for the time being all we can go on is educated guesswork.

Davie
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 592
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.21.252
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the information, Davie. Your point on the Philadelphia group existing at the same time as the RCA group, is well taken. I agree that they could not have been the same group. The Jamie/Smash groups sound "White", while the RCA group has a soul sound (at least on "Don't Monkey With Me" and "Love Is The Only Answer"). However, many, many groups recorded both in Philadelphia and NY, so having a history in one of those cities, rather than the other, wouldn't cause me to place them in that city.

When I saw George Motola's name on The Becky & lollipops record, I should have realised it was from L.A.-and wasn't likely to be connected with the East Coast Group. That's interesting that they were Joanne & The Triangles. So then they were found by the L.A. Motown group, like Brenda and Patrice Holloway, Gloria Jones, The Vows, Oma Heard/Page? Did they have any connection with Marc Gordon, The Pipkin Brothers, Hal Davis or Frank Wilson?
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Ryon6 (tyrone)
3-Pundit
Username: tyrone

Post Number: 39
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 12.20.58.68
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone verify whether Arnetia Walker is the same as the star of Dreamgirls and what are the names of the other members of this Detroit group?


Tyrone

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