By Juicefree20 (141.149.48.132) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 05:07 pm:

I had heard that the song Jimmy Mack was inspired by Bronx N.Y. native, Ronnie Mack, the writer of He's So Fine. I heard that HDH wrote the song after seeing Ronnies' mom picking up his award at an industry function. He had died of lymphomatic cancer, shortly after his song went Gold. He actually received his Gold record while in the hospital. Can anybody add to this??

Juicefree20

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 05:10 pm:

Juicefree:
Yes, that is what inspired HDH to pen the lyrics to "Jimmy Mack".

The music used for the mono version was recorded in 1964. In 1967, HDH pulled the track from the vault and had Martha & the Vandellas record the tune.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Shawn1b (65.26.96.65) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 06:41 pm:

From what I understand Martha and The Vandellas vocals were recorded around 64 also cause Annette voice is on the songs she left in 64 I believe .Shawn

By Juicefree20 (151.205.106.125) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 06:46 pm:

Thanks for the info Kev & Shawn. By the way Kev, how was the Sat tribute for The Dells? I tried to open an account with paypal, I'm still waiting for my passport. I really want to thank them for such excellent service. Man, I even bought a new camera, I was ready. I hope that they find a better method for purchasing tickets for the next function. I am seriously disappointed.

By John Lester (81.133.37.88) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 07:03 pm:

Russ Terrana can tell a wonderful story about using footstomps on this record if he can persuaded to tell it again!

By roger (217.35.87.17) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 06:24 am:

Hello Everyone.

"Jimmy Mack" was definitely recorded in 1964.

There was an article in "Blues & Soul" about 1985/6 about DAVE GODIN's trip to Detroit in 1964. DAVE GODIN was (is) a U.K. Soul Fanatic/Journalist/Record Shop Owner/Record Company Owner who was one of the leading members of Motown's British fan club at the time (1964).

Apparently he was greeted with open arms by the Motown staff and artists and was treated to a listen to some songs MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS had just recorded, including "Dancing in the Street" and "Jimmy Mack".

When I read this it seemed a bit strange to me, so I wrote to SHARON DAVIS at Blues & Soul pointing out that "Jimmy Mack" wasn't released until 1967, so could this be correct.

I eventually received a letter back from DAVE GODIN himself confirming that he had indeed heard "Jimmy Mack" in 1964. I still have the letter at home!!

Roger

By Juicefree20 (68.161.24.249) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:39 am:

Hi Roger, thanks for the insight. That wouldn't be surprising, considering that I had always heard that Marvin Gaye recorded Grapevine before Gladys Knight & The Pips. In fact, there have been many songs that sat in the cans for years before their release. I'm familiar with Mr Godins CDs, excellent music indeed.

By Don (68.75.173.33) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:39 am:

The Definitly love the song, the girls kicked a** on the song the bkgrd vox's we're soothing. I was once heard from a musician friend that "Jimmy Mack" was actually done in 64, not saying it's true, it's just what I heard some few yrs later too. I do love this forum to hear some great and fresh info for a change.

Originally I thought the song was about a guy all the girls we're crazay about, I assumed.

Don

Don

By Reese (12.15.168.67) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 12:04 pm:

There were (at least) two released versions of JIMMY MACK.

The version released on the WATCHOUT! album sounds like it was recorded in 1964. It has that sound. It also has a really bluesy piano part throughout.

The version released as a single is totally different, with a new backing track and a new vocal. This version starts off with a drum roll, and had footstomps throughout. It was probably recorded in 1967.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 12:11 pm:

Reese & Company:
For a brief spell in 1997 I helped Universal Music Group's Harry Weinger with some research for upcoming reissues. Through the wonders of microfilm I discovered a studio/masters log book from Motown which revealed that the instrumental backing for the mono version of Jimmy Mack was cut in 1964 and the tape was "pulled" from the reel for use in 1967.

The mono version can be heard on Martha's "Ultimate Collection" CD while the re-recorded stereo version can be found on the "Millenium Series" disc.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By John Lester (81.129.174.130) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 12:19 pm:

Kev Go

Russ was the one that worked on it in 1967...

Ralph - can you get your brother back here please!!

By roger (217.35.87.17) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 12:25 pm:

Hello again.

KevGo .. the re-recorded stereo version of "Jimmy Mack" sounds like it could be the one that got used by U.K. E.M.I on the "British Motown Chartbusters" L.P. that they put out at the turn of 1967/1968!!

I bought the Mono version of the L.P. in 1969(didn't have a stereo at the time), and all 16 tracks on the L.P. were as I knew them from radio. However a friend of mine bought the Stereo version of the L.P. and the version of "Jimmy Mack" was completely different!! It had none of the "footstomping beat" that made the song stand out and become such a big hit (It charted in the U.K. in both 1967 and 1970!!

The version of MARTHA REEVES' "I'm Ready For Love" was also subtly different between the two releases of the L.P. as the stereo version was slightly longer.

Roger

By LASERDK (81.76.11.220) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:31 am:

Roger,

That stereo version used on "British Motown Chartbusters" and the girls' "Watchout!" albums are, indeed, the same version. The stereo version that appeared on the girls' "Millennium Collection" in 1999 is slightly different in that it has added handclaps throughout, like the mono single version, but still lacks that footstomping beat, as you describe, just like the stereo album versions. Not sure whether the handclaps were deliberately left off the stereo album versions or whether the mix used on the "Millennium Collection" disc was found in the vaults at that time and used. Whatever, it was certainly the first time this further alternate mix was issued.

As an aside, I've now got a true stereo version of the single take of "Jimmy Mack" which a friend of mine put together from the Motown Karaoke discs and it just shows what can be done. I can tell that Harry Weinger did initimate on the Motown Boards sometime ago that the single version of "Jimmy Mack" was something he would like to look at and create a proper stereo mix when time and money allowed.

Ivor

By dvdmike (68.72.175.242) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:30 am:

Does anyone know the exact session date for "Jimmy Mack?"

By JoB (63.168.103.2) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 01:55 am:

...I've read in a couple of places that Martha and the Vandellas recorded it in '64, but due to the Supremes recent success, Motown decided not to release it, as it sounded like it could have been a Supremes hit, but wasn't, and Motown didn't want anyone else to overshadow their new "princesses"...so it's release was held off until '67, and supposedly Martha wasn't too happy about it either.

I've also learned not to believe everything I read, especially where Motown is concerned, seeing that there are those who love a juicy "Motown myth", especially ones that involve some sort of conspiracy (Gerald Posner, anyone? :o)...anyone out there who could confirm this one?

By Marthas old man (81.132.4.84) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 03:43 am:

March 2 & 25, 1964 - track recut twice

June 18, 1964 - track and then vocals dubbed in

Jan 17, 1967-Russ's nifty footstomps added.

Jimmy Mack was also recorded (but not issued) by another Motown artist in 1970.

By Patrick (69.212.227.109) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 04:52 pm:

All the vocals on that song are amazing.....The backup vocals just keep getting higher and higher....the drums to..very nice beat!

By LadyMystique (216.222.240.137) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 10:35 pm:

I love this song...it has that famous 4 on 4 beat that is not hard to miss! Great story in the lyric also! I used to sing it when my mum played it!

By Rasputin (68.42.95.82) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 11:38 pm:

Whoa .... I used to "bug" to Jimmy Mack back in '64. Go figure ....

By STONEWALL (68.237.64.45) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 12:38 am:

"JIMMY MACK"

As a personal friend of MARTHA REEVES for 'about 3 decades or more' -- I even have a Siamese cat named "JIMMY MACK" (yes, MARTHA has seen him) -- I've always known "JIMMY MACK" to have been recorded in 1964 and released in 1967. It's unusual, yes; but for Motown, no. They did the same, for example, with SMOKEY ROBINSON & THE MIRACLES' "Tears Of A Clown", recorded in 1967 (and even released on a 1967 album) but not released as a single until the next decade in 1970. In fact with "J.M.", MARTHA has many times over the years announced at their concerts that they actually recorded it in 1964 but Motown did not release it until 1967. Better late than never (as they did with so many of their other songs). The bottom line herein is: "When are U coming back, JIMMY MACK"? Maybe on the "Motown 45" television special in May!

STONEWALL
WLH@nyct.net

www.STONEWALLvets.org/songsofStonewall-7.htm

By Juicefree20 (141.149.61.110) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 02:43 am:

Hey there Lady
I would love to ask them how they came up with the lyrics, as the original inspiration came from seeing songwriter Ronnie Macks' mom picking up an award (for The Chiffons He's So Fine)that he received posthumously. Maybe the Vietnam War had something to do with it? Can any Motown Pros help with this?

Peace
Juice

By John Lester (81.132.164.60) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 03:30 am:

When I was walking the streets in Detroit innocently trying to find the Motown museum from the Fox Theatre, I came across a street named Mack. I kind of wondered whether it had any connection with the song

By Uptight (24.55.0.68) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 05:21 am:

Almost like the Buttered Popcorn "controversy" in another thread (LOL), the name "Jimmy Mack" was probably just made up as a nifty gimmick to rhyme with the phrase "(when are you) coming back."

The idea behind the lyric could be applied to a girl waiting for her boyfriend to come back from war at that time.

By STONEWALL (68.237.64.45) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 05:53 am:

"JIMMY MACK" lyric

'Uptight' writes: "The idea behind the lyric could be applied to a girl waiting for her boyfriend to come back from (the Viet Nam) war at that time". Yes, and let's be real and fair: It could be applied to a boy waiting for his boyfriend to come back.... I knew plenty then that were exactly that case (most very secretive at that time).

At a recent concert in Manhattan, New York, when Martha Reeves asked the audience if, "Any of U out there got a Jimmy Mack you're looking for?", both males and females, white and black, raised their hands. Allright, "Jimmy"!


STONEWALL

By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 08:00 am:

Were the footsteps on the January 17, 1967 used for the single or LP version?

By John Lester (81.133.67.197) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:37 am:

The "Watchout" album came out in December 1966.

DVDMike...check out the archives here, Russ Terrana tells you what he did. I could tell you but I think you will appreciate more if it came from Russ.

By Russ Terrana (198.178.8.81) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:14 pm:

Here's what happened ... one day at the Hitsville studios in Detorit, Brian Holland asked me to record him doing footstomps on a track of theirs. We layed down a piece of plywood and he stomped on that. after we finished, Brian said to me he wanted me to mix it for him. The mix went out and "Jimmy Mack" ( I am proud to say) is still being played today!!

By LadyMystique (216.37.229.14) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:01 pm:

Wassup, Juice!

By Juicefree20 (68.161.31.69) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:09 pm:

What's up LadyM! How's everything going up there in the PCs?

By Uptight! (24.55.0.68) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:22 pm:

Thanks Russ!

By LadyMystique (216.37.229.14) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:47 pm:

Cold as ice Juice! LOL

By Juicefree20 (68.161.31.69) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:34 pm:

Well LadyM, I rest assured knowing that your warm heart will keep you comfy & cozy

By LadyMystique (216.37.229.14) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:00 pm:

Thanks Juice

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 11:02 am:

Thanks Russ

Now gang, wasn't I right that it is better coming from the man himself!

By Ju (205.188.117.14) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 01:26 am:

Why did you stomp on plywood and not just the hardwood floor (if this was done in the Snakepit)?


Uh... what was the thickness and length + width of the plywood?