By PhillySoul (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:10 am:

Any Three Degrees fans out there. What did you all think of them on the recent PBS Special Rhythm Love and Soul. Check there website www.thethreedegrees.com

By Vickie (198.81.26.231) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:24 am:

Love them

By ?????? (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:59 am:

Does anyone have any other video on them from overseas where they mainly perform like in England, Japan, Holland, or Germany.

By Pogo (66.129.43.61) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 07:05 am:

Funny thing, just saw them on an old "Sanford & Son" rerun yesterday.

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:50 am:

Hi Everyone.

I love the Three Degrees. They were excellent on PBS, though Valerie was not the original lead on "When Will I See You Again", she pulled it off.
I saw the episode of Sanford & Son, a long time ago. I believe they sang, "I Didn't Know". That's the cut!

By B-town (207.8.188.200) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:59 am:

"I didn't know", that is the cut. Anybody know the personnel which appeared on that episode of "Sandford and Son". Also is it the same personnel that recorded "When will I see You Again"

By Eli (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:03 am:

I didnt know was recorded at the same session as w.w.I.s.y.a.

By B-town (207.8.188.200) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:06 am:

Not sure what that means Mr. Eli. Who was the personnel on the song?

By Eli (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:12 am:

The personnel were the usual MFSB rhythm section section who were Earl Young on drums, Ronnie Baker on Bass, Norman Harris and Bobby Eli on guitars, Vince Montana on vibes, Larry Washington on percussion and Leon Huff on piano.
The strings and horns are to numerous to mention.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:14 am:

THREE GOOD LOOKIN SEXY SINGIN LADIES!

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:20 am:

Wasn't Sheila Ferguson the lead on "When Will I See You Again"? What is she doing these days?

By B-town (207.8.188.200) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:24 am:

Thanks Eli

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Bobby..wasn't it Sheila, Valerie and Fayette Pinkney on When Will I See You Again??

And just WHO was that "Dirty Old Man"

By stephanie (64.63.221.99) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:37 am:

Sheila has a website she is popular overseas go to Sheila Ferguson.com Fury13 and you will see her and her recent happenings..
Stephanie

By helmut (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:38 am:

Fury.. achtung!!! i shtill zay dat name sounds like mein feur... feur... oh vell you know what i mean

By Eli (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:40 am:

yes Sheila, Val and Fayette WERE the group with Shiela on lead .
On their version of Maybe, it was Val.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:49 am:

"When Will I See You Again" - classic tune.
Loved the Three Degrees, especially their live album and their early Roulette singles that were cut here in NYC (they covered the classic "Maybe" in 1970).
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Chancellor of Soul (63.78.189.114) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:21 pm:

Last night I saw an Sanford & Son episode (which
happens to be my particular favorite one)
entitled, " Presenting, The Three Degrees".
Very funny !!!! I love this group !!!

Peace,
Mike Boone
(Chancellor of Soul)

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

Bobby, was that Val singing lead on, "I didn't know"?

By !!!!!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:52 pm:

Has anyone heard their Euro-Disco singles with Gorgio Moroder like Giving Up Giving In, The Runner, My Simple Heart, and the ballad Woman In Love which were hits for them between 1978 and 1979. That was when Helen replaced Fayette and rejoined the group with Sheila and Valerie.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.108) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

I Saw Shelia Ferguson
on a tv interview the other week over here in the SOULFUL uk and she looks better now than when she was with the group.
Yowsa,Yowsa,Yowsa!!!!!!!!!!!
mel

By !!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:42 pm:

Did you tape the interview. What did she talk about?

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.108) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:45 pm:

!!!!
it was only about what she was doing over here really as she lives in the uk.
It didnt go into any detail regards her music or anything which was a pity.
MEL.

By PhillySoul (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:10 pm:

Mel Do you have any footage on them being you live in the UK like their Royal Albert Hall special from 1978 or any tv appearances.

By boynextdoor (65.238.58.3) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

Yea, does anyone know if the Royal Albert Hall concert was filmed and is it for sale out there anywhere????

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:23 pm:

I have the 12 inch of Givin Out Giving In which was a big European smash for the Three Degrees and a disco hit in the states. They always seemed to be much bigger in England & Japan than here in the States. Loved their high harmonies.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.5) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:54 pm:

Phillysoulman,
sorry dont have any footage,
but have scanned some great pics of them from a girl groups web-site.
http:/www.geocites.com/tggfc/
mel.

By PhillySoul (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

Mel...Thanks for responding. Boy Next Door...THe concert was televised in the UK in 1978 on the BBC network. Not many people taped it or have. The Three Degrees footage is rare.

By Memories (209.215.117.4) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

I saw The Three Degrees perform in 1968 at a baseball field in Richmond, Va. Being rather young at the time, they struck me as imitation Supremes, who were, of course, huge at the time.

The Three Degress opened a show featuring Tiny Tim and headlined by The Lovin' Spoonful. Talk about variety. I read many years later that it was the Spoonful's final show.

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:13 pm:

As I understand it the 3 Degrees lost the rights to the name in the US after big battle with Richard Barret-tho they can use it elsewhere in the world. Mary WIlson kind of stumbeld over their intro on the PBS Special--here are Helen and the girls-Formerly of the 3 Degrees. How sad they cant tour here as they r know. Val sounded very much like Sheila--eerie.

By John Lester (217.40.220.59) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:44 pm:

I thought their Jump The Gun was a fabulous track as was their PWL output. Ritchie - was you involved with them?

But their Philly stuff was incredible...Long Lost Lover, Get Your Love Back, Year of Decision and one of my personal favourites..Can't You See What You're Doing To Me.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:06 pm:

Heres a few 3 Degrees 45s for you.

On Swan Records.

Drivin' me mad/look in my eyes(no.4235)
Gotta draw the line/close your eyes(no.4224)
Are you satisfied/Love of my life(no.4267)

On Warner Brothers Records.

Contact/no no not again(no.7198)

On Neptune Records.

Reflections of yesterday/what I see(no.23)

On Metromedia Records.

Warm weather music/down in the boondocks(no.109)

Mel(feeling 100 degrees)

By !!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Vandelas and Memories. Memories it is funny you saw them in Richmond in 1968 cause that was 2 years after Helen Scott left the first time and that is actually where she was born but she moved to Philly when she was 3 and grew up there. Vandelas Richard Barrett does own the name and Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia cannot be who they are in the States but it is good that they got on the PBS special so that the world knows they are still around and never broke up. Hopefully promoters will book them now and they can now see how they can be billed.

By Eli (151.197.40.240) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:30 pm:

I toured with the Three Degrees on and off in 1970-71. Their manager, R.B. was a tyrant and a svengali type who ran a tight ship and the musicians including myself never knew when they would be fired(for no reason) as was his m.o.
Lo and behold, at the end of their second Bermuda gig, I was given my walking papers though no one could give me a straight answer as to why!!!
Several days after coming home, their road manager came by and asked me if I was ready! And so I said "ready for what?
So he then says "the gig in Atlanta!!" as if nothing happened. so I then told him just where he could stick the gig!!!
I loved the girls , but they were under the control of a tyrant!!!

By boynextdoor (65.238.6.137) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:38 pm:

I have a video from a couple of years ago starring The Three Degrees, Sister Sledge and Former Ladies of you know what. It's an excellent show with good sound quality and full orchestra. I think it may be from the Netherlands. Much to my surprize, Sister Sledge was the stand out here. Hmmm. Never liked them much in their day, but, they've apparently matured and put on a high evergy show. It was fun watching all the girls come out and sing the final together.

By RD (63.188.32.88) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:39 pm:

Richard Barrett susposedly wrote a tell all book about the music industry but I have yet to locate a copy.

By Eli (151.197.40.240) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:43 pm:

Richard's book is not out as of yet.
Should be a good read though.
He has a lot of history behind him starting with the heart and soul of the doo-wop era and records that are classics in the genre.

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:13 pm:

Eli....Did you play on the Standing Up For Love album when Helen came back after Fayette left. It was there last CBS album before they signed with Ariola and Gorgio Moroder. The album was recorded at Sigma. Do you still speak with Valerie, Helen, Sheila, or Fayette. What did you think of them on the PBS special.

By Eli (151.197.40.240) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:19 pm:

!!!!! I'll have to listen to that album and I will let you know.

I spoke to Sheila about two months ago and the last time I saw Fay was in 1999. Its bee quite awhile that I spoke to Val.

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:21 pm:

What about Helen? Did you know her too? What did you think of them on the PBS special?

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:22 pm:

Boynextdoor...Is that the only footage you have on them? Can you get more than that?

By !!!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:47 pm:

RD...How do you know about this book? Do you know when it will be out?

By RD (63.188.33.123) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:02 pm:

Actually !!!!!!, I heard about the book about two or three years ago.

I didn't think it was out either Bobby cause I've search the Internet bookstores and couldn't find it anywhere. I know some people who say they have copies, probably galleys or unpublished copies, which led me to initially think it was released.

One guy said the book was so scathing and revealing that if it was ever released Barret would have to go into hiding.

By Greg C. (207.103.134.164) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:54 pm:

I saw Sheila a few years ago in London in a musical entitled "Soul Train." It was just OK.

My favorite Three Degrees album was the 1975 release "International." "Another Heartache" and "Long Lost Lover" are the jams! I was really sorry to see the girls leave PI. Their releases after that just didn't hit the mark.

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:44 am:

RD....Do you know what he reveals on The Three Degrees. He had a bad relationship with Sheila Ferguson I know.

By !!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:52 am:

Eli...What about Helen? Did you know her too? What did you think of them on the PBS special?

By !!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:51 am:

Greg C...Have you seen her new musical

By Eli (151.197.33.59) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:52 am:

I was in London in July of '99 and saw Soul Train the musical at the Victoria and personally speaking, I loved it!!!


Re: R.B., he has become a very bitter man so its anyones guess what the book will say.
I dont think that he has a publisher yet, though.

By !!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:13 am:

Eli..What did you think of The Three Degrees on the PBS special. Are they still known amongst other Philly artists and producers. Do you you still speak to Helen Scott.

By dvdmike (68.72.92.82) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:14 am:

Episode #43 of "Sanford And Son" titled "Presenting The Three Degrees" originally aired on October 5, 1973 and featured Sheila, Valerie and Fayette. Also featured in this episode were comedians Leroy and Skillet and Dwan Smith, who played the the politically conscious sister in the film, "Sparkle".

By RD (63.188.32.228) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:40 am:

When you're shopping a book to publishers, and to acquaintences and friends for promo-blurbs copies are sent around. So there are indeed some people who know what is in R. B.'s book. The pre-published version anyway.

By !!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:55 am:

RD...So what do you know about what is said about members of The Three Degrees.

By !!!!!!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:56 am:

RD...Do you know what is said about the member of the Three Degrees Helen, Sheila, Valerie, and Fayette?

By Eli (151.197.33.59) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:20 pm:

The book is not out yet!!!!!

By !!!!!! (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

Eli...What did you think of them on the PBS Special

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:24 pm:

Valerie did a good job doing Sheilas lead part.
All in all they did a good job.

By !!!!!!! (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:23 pm:

Eli.....Did you know Helen? Do you speak to her or see her? She was a member on Swan records with Fayette and Janet Harmon. What about the newest member Cynthia Garrison?

By RD (65.132.77.156) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

!!!!!, I haven't seen the prepublished book that Barrett sent around so I can't comment on what he wrote; even if I had I wouldn't because the book isn't on the market. But I do know two people who received copies and both said that it's more revealing and tell all ish than Hit Men, a riveting account of the recording industry that came out some years ago.

He may never find a publisher because of libel and slander issues. The major publishers aren't showing much interest and the small ones can't afford to handle the legal-heat that would result. R.B. may end up self publishing.

By !!!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 07:15 pm:

RD...I feel ya. Barrett has been around for a longtime. I am curious to read it. Does anyone else other than Bobby Eli know or met the girls personally? Did you know that after Helen, Sheila, and Val left him he launched another set of girls in the late 80's and early 90's and tried to get them going but was not successful. It is unfortunate that he owns the rights to the name. Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Val were the ones that did the work for him.

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:11 pm:

Eli.....Did you know Helen? Do you speak to her or see her? She was a member on Swan records with Fayette and Janet Harmon. What about the newest member Cynthia Garrison?

RD...I feel ya. Barrett has been around for a longtime. I am curious to read it. Does anyone else other than Bobby Eli know or met the girls personally? Did you know that after Helen, Sheila, and Val left him he launched another set of girls in the late 80's and early 90's and tried to get them going but was not successful. It is unfortunate that he owns the rights to the name. Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Val were the ones that did the work for him.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

I have known the girls and Richard since the Swan days and all I remember are Sheila, Fay and Val. Sheila also had some solo records on Swan.
My professional involvement with them started as I had previously mentioned in 1970 where I conduced the band for them at the Latin Casino after richard had a bout of overindulgence of some sort.
I went on to do the Mike Douglass show and a host of tour dates during which I played on the Maybe sessions including the song Magic Mirror which I wrote for them.
From there it was with TSOP.

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

Eli...Thanks for the history and I did read the previous post. In all the years I thought Helen was remembered by some people. She sang the lead on the Swan version of Maybe. She just had a real sweet soprano voice. The Swan sessions are real classic. And when she returned with Sheila and Val after Fayette left. THe Ariola recordings with Gorgio Moroder like Woman In Love and Giving Up Giving In were good too.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

!!!!! You ARE the ultimate Three Degrees fan!!!!

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:05 pm:

Eli...They were a tight group. They looked good too. Their harmonies on stage were magical.

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

Eli...Check out there website at www.thethreedegrees.com I did not design it but what do you think.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:19 pm:

!!!! Can you please reveal your identity????

By !!!!Mark (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:15 pm:

Eli....My name is Mark and I am from Chicago

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:22 pm:

Thanks Mark! Good to know you.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:28 pm:

I believe that if the Three Degrees had the right management they could have been as big as the Supremes if not bigger.
When I played with them,their show was class personified.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason R.B. held them back. Nobody wanted to deal with him and the girls suffered because of it.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:43 pm:

I agree and it is a shame that they had to suffer. But I do give it to Richard for grooming them and throwing them together. I mean I think Helen and Val should have the name and that they should be able to work here in the States under it. It may be a new set in which people saw but it is the same ladies and same sound just about. I read some old articles where Val stated Richard would replace you at the drop of a dime and he always made them feel like they didn't have a permanent job. I commend Helen, Sheila, and Val for firing him in 1981. At that time they were very popular in the UK since the 3 of them were at the Royal Wedding of Charles and Di.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:44 pm:

Eli....Do you know why the girls left PIR and G&H.

By MArk (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:41 am:

Eli....Do you know why the girls left PIR and G&H

I agree and it is a shame that they had to suffer. But I do give it to Richard for grooming them and throwing them together. I mean I think Helen and Val should have the name and that they should be able to work here in the States under it. It may be a new set in which people saw but it is the same ladies and same sound just about. I read some old articles where Val stated Richard would replace you at the drop of a dime and he always made them feel like they didn't have a permanent job. I commend Helen, Sheila, and Val for firing him in 1981. At that time they were very popular in the UK since the 3 of them were at the Royal Wedding of Charles and Di.

By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:22 pm:

The girls "left" PIR because RICHARD was the one signed to the label and the girls were signed to Richard and when G&H had a major falling out with RB the girls suffered as a result.
That kind of move was typical of RB as he was a schizophrenic.

And yes, he would hire and fire at the drop of a dime.

In Vegas in the middle of a one month run at the Riveria, he fired the drummer and bass played for NO reason just because he had the power to do it. So I then had to rehearse the house rhythm section with a series of TEDIOUS rehearsals and then I had to rehearse a different section everyday for a month of one nighters!!
By the way, the bass player he fired was Alphonso Johnson who would soon join Weather Report. he was a dear friend of mine and I felt so bad when that happened . I tried to talk sense into RB but to no avail.

Next he hired a pianist for a gig in Hawaii and he fired him right after the gig a month later.
My turn came at the end of September in Bermuda when Fayette whispered to me on the way off the stage that RB had let me go.

Less than a week later their road manager, Jojo came to pick me up to take me to the airport as if nothing had happened and I told him to tell RB to stick it you know where.

By the way , he probably named them the Three Degrees after giving everyone the third degree.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

Bobby] You got me cracking up here thats too funny...the third degree, h-he-he-he!!!!!!! S.Sis

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:45 pm:

Eli...I didn't know Richard was the one signed and not the girls themselves. Do you know what the actual issue was between G&H and RB.

By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:30 pm:

G&H could not take any of RB's psychotic behavior anymore( they caled him Hitler behind his back and everyone else viewed him in that maned as well) so they killed that whole "production deal" setup and shortly thereafter G&H met the Jones Girls at the Shubert Theater in Philly while they were backing Diana Ross and G&H were impressed enough to sign them and to step in where the 3 degrees left.
So in essence, all of the JG's songs could have been 3D songs.

Did someone say 3rd Reich or 3 degrees??

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 06:32 pm:

Eli....That is something. It is ironic too cause the girls remained on CBS after PIR. They did 3 more albums. A live in Japan, Toast Of Love (which was recorded in Japan and Fayette's last album, and Standing Up For Love which was when Helen returned and it was recorded at Sigma. I know you said you had to hear it but it was produced by Barrett and Richard Rome. Track listings were:

Standing Up For Love,
What I Did For Love,
Macaroni Man
Gee Baby I'm Sorry
People With Feeling
Just Leave Me Alone
In Love We Grow
We're All Alone.

Do those tunes ring a bell to you.

By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:10 pm:

Hi Mark..
I wasnt on none of that stuff and I dont know who was.
RB probably undehandedly negotiated his own deal directly with CBS.
No wonder it flopped. Bad Karma indeed.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:35 pm:

The album did flop but some of the songs were good.

By stephanie (64.63.221.17) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:11 pm:

Isnt it true that Sheila married Richard Barrett and that is why the other Three Degrees wont have anything to do with her? By the way my fave song by them is Giving Up Giving In I have the album and Year of Decision is good too, I never cared for When Will I see You Again like everyone else did. I think their live album is great!!
Stephanie

By Greg C. (207.103.134.65) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

Standing Up For Love was a real dud! The only good thing about it was the cover which had the ladies in flowing pastel dresses and they looked smashing.

Those albums they did with Giorgio Moroder at Ariola America were bad as well. His arrangements were bumble bee electronics and herky-jerky disco and virtually drowned out their tight harmony. The only two songs that were salvageable from those sessions were "My Simple Heart" and "Starlight" which slowed down the tempo considerably enough to let the ladies vocal abilities come through.

Thanks Eli for providing the insight as to why the ladies left PIR. I wondered about that for a long time. Had they remained at the company, it would have been interesting to see how they would have performed some of the Jones Girls material like "You're Gonna Make Me Love Somebody Else", "The Feelins' Killing Me", or my favorite "We're A Melody."

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:33 pm:

Stephanie...Sheila did not marry Richard Barrett. She broke up with him. Her relationship with him was actually the inspiration for their 1978 hit "The Runner" from the New Dimensions Album which Giving Up Giving In and Woman In Love are on...Helen and Val do not speak to her for the way she left the group in 1985. Sheila claims she left for her twin daughters. Fayette does not speak to Val or Sheila from what I hear. She only speaks with Helen as they started the group on the Swan years with Janet Harmon. I heard it was awkward for Helen at first as she did not know why Fayette left. She just recieved the call from Sheila in Aug of 1976 and had an hour to make up her mind to come back and she did.

Greg C...You are one of the only people I have heard say they did not like the Ariola stuff. My Simple Heart was a huge hit for them and I like Starlight as well. But Woman In Love was a beautiful ballad. Giving Up Giving In and The Runner was good too. To me it was good for them as Helen, Sheila, and Val adapted to the times but kept their own style and sound to those records.

Eli...Have you heard the Ariola sessions before

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:48 pm:

So what exactly didnt the others like about Sheila's leaving?

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:22 pm:

From what I saw in an interview a few years ago from a UK top ten girl groups documentary. The Three Degrees were ranked 7 of all time in the UK and they did not interview Sheila. They interviewed Helen, Val, and Richard Barrett. Richard talked about how he had to be focused and how he was like Phil Spector and on the topic of their courtcase he said he was not gonna let anyone go around using the name. Helen and Val spoke on the groups affiliation with Prince Charles and how Sheila left abruptly. Sheila was living in the UK and Helen and Val lived in Philly at the time. They said that they were not as well off as she was. Helen stated in that interview that Sheila called and said I don't wanna do this anymore and can you tell Val. Helen stated no you tell her and that on the phone you could hear a pin drop cause Val was stunned and felt betrayed. THey were not ready to call it quits. In other interviews I heard that Sheila wanted to take the group into a punk rock direction and Helen and Val did not want to do that.

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:02 am:

From what I saw in an interview a few years ago from a UK top ten girl groups documentary. The Three Degrees were ranked 7 of all time in the UK and they did not interview Sheila. They interviewed Helen, Val, and Richard Barrett. Richard talked about how he had to be focused and how he was like Phil Spector and on the topic of their courtcase he said he was not gonna let anyone go around using the name. Helen and Val spoke on the groups affiliation with Prince Charles, Sheila's relationship with Barrett and how Sheila left abruptly. Sheila was living in the UK and Helen and Val lived in Philly at the time. They said that they were not as well off as she was. Helen stated in that interview that Sheila called and said I don't wanna do this anymore and can you tell Val. Helen stated no you tell her and that on the phone you could hear a pin drop cause Val was stunned and felt betrayed. THey were not ready to call it quits. In other interviews I heard that Sheila wanted to take the group into a punk rock direction and Helen and Val did not want to do that.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Lagunabeach (65.238.58.238) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:58 am:

Anone interested in Three Degree video's or any girl groups, try: Michael Michaud
83 Elliot Street
Danvers, MA 01923
978-774-1716

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:00 am:

Vandelron...The interview also talked about how Sheila was in love with Richard from a young age and how through the years Helen, Fay, and Val had to be dragged into their disputes being a group

By Eli (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:09 am:

Sheila must have been quite a masochist then!!
She sure doesnt love him now!!!!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:16 am:

Eli...Before Sheila, Helen, and Val parted with him she got married to an English guy who she divorced last year but Barrett sent her a note on her wedding day saying she will always be his. She stated that in UK tabloid last fall....

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:39 am:

I was wondering when the issue of Richard Barrett and his relationship to the group would be discussed. There has always been the feeling in some quarters that the Three Degrees would have been much bigger than they eventually became if Richard Barrett did not have a stranglehold on the group. In an interview that I saw years ago from England it appeared that Richard Barrett would rather see the group destroy than to see the group do anything away from him or outside of his control. Of course, there are two sides to these kinds of issues.

By phillysoulman (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:55 am:

Michael..
You are absolutely right in your assumption.
he is a very bitter man and in my opinion needs some "counseling"

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:53 pm:

Does anyone know who the lead is on "I Didn't Know"?

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:01 pm:

Handsome...The lead on I didn't know is Valerie and then Sheila...

Michael...You are right and now all of the girls Helen, Sheila, and Val have spoken in various interviews about it.

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:17 pm:

Thanks Mark.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 03:18 pm:

Has anyone else seen them in concert and who was in the group at that time?

By Bill (81.77.224.157) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:22 pm:

Hi all,
Big UK fan of The Three Degrees here. Great to see a lot of interest in the group. Have seen them in concert 7 times, starting in 1980. Met them at a Fan Club "get together" the same year.
Saw them last in '97, (Val, Helen, Cynthia), and thought they were great. Had previously seen V&H with Victoria Wallace, (who was on the "and Holdi ng" album). Have many Albums, spanning the years. Play "If and When" from the PIR "Three Degrees" album up loud!!!!
The ladies have re-recorded most of thier hits on CD's. The recordings are pretty good. Agree they could have been much bigger with the right direction in the early 80's. Hope to catch them again in the near future!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:27 pm:

Folks:
It's sad to see a man such as Richard Barrett, who has done much in the music biz in the early 1950s, turn out to be such a stubborn person but given the fabric of managers/producer from that era I'm not at all surprised by reading Bobby's & Cleo/Michael's insights.

Phil Spector, Richard Barrett, George Treadwell (Drifters' manager) - these were examples of manager/producer/tyrant types who at that time could get away with such tactics then but would be kicked to the curb in the present day if they were to pull anything stupid.

Thank God the industry has changed in some ways - yet still has a way to go in others.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Wonder B (80.14.145.197) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:39 pm:

For those into rare stuff, the great double Live album simply called Live In Japan is fantastic with it's large size calendar featuring superb shots of Sheila, Valerie and Fayette...Among several other LP's that were only released in Japan, I must mention the Millie Jackson Live In Japan, the two LP's by the Supremes and the Jackson 5 both named 'Live In Japan' (which I mentioned in another thread), the great Herbie Hancock 'Flood' double live LP, Larry Graham's 'Fired Up' from 1985 (studio LP) with unbelievable solis from the man (two other albums never came out elsewhere, Graham Central Station Live IN Japan issued in 1990 with George Johnson from the Bros fame on guitar, and Back By Popular Demand in 1996 I believe on the small P-Vine label)...
There are many other albums issued in the land of the rising sun only...

Wonder B

Wonder B

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:17 pm:

Bill....Do you have video on them? I am glad to hear their are still fans that like them.

Kev...I am glad the industry has changed since then. I just wish Helen, Val, and Cynthia could so a lot more in the States.

By Eli (141.151.79.28) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

Well RB IS getting old and you know......
no one is promised forever.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

Kev-Go; Lets not forget the imfamous Herman Lubinsky from your list of 50s tyrants! S.S.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

Eli....Although RB is getting old. He has a wife and kids. THey may try to carry this on to the next generation

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:48 am:

Wonder B..As far as Japan..The Three Degrees are real popular there. They will be in Japan at the end of this month according to their website www.thethreedegrees.com

By Bill (81.79.37.155) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:52 pm:

Mark,

Sadly no. I did have a lot at one time, but over the years, house moves and children have lost/erased them, (I think, you never know I may come across some). Apart from numerous TV appearences in the 80's, promoting whatever single was out at the time, Val Helen & Sheila's 1979 "Evening with.." Concert at the Royal Albert Hall was recored and shown on BBC television. The ladies also recorded their own show for BBC in 1982 "Take 3 Degrees". The last network appearences I think were to promote "The Heaven I Need" in 1985. Val, Helen and Cynthia have, as previously mentioned, appeared on a Channel 4 "Top 10 Girl Groups" a couple of years ago. They also appeared on UK VH1 during a "Disco" weekend.

As you may know there is a long running music show on BBC, "Top of the Pops", (or TOTP). There is a sister show, "TOTP2", which is on twice a week, showing archive clips. The ladies are often on there from either the 70's or 80's. TOTP2 has its own Website, at bbc.co.uk, (then follow the link). This has short clips from over the years, including, currently, "My Simple Heart".

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

Soul Sister:
Thank you for the addition - for what Herman did to Jimmy Scott I'm sure Lucifer had plenty of room for when Mr. Lubinksy left this earth....
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:53 pm:

Bill,

I am actually looking for those videos that you mentioned. The Royal Albert Hall and the Vh1. Do you know anyone that may have that stuff. You can e-mail me at Magicnotez@aol.com

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:07 pm:

Kev-Go;
For what Herman also did to Little Esther and Big Maybelle and a whole lot of others!!!
But blocking Jimmy's career because he refused to sing rock n'roll was the worst. With Little Esther the courts told Herman he couldn't have a lifetime contract on her, that was slavery!!!
I understand he treated his own son horribly and the son was a nice guy. I guess he wanted to hold everyone in slavitude!!! The stories are many, and too horrible and too many to repeat!!!
S.S.

By ..... (207.241.96.10) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:20 pm:

Is Herman Lubinsky related to T.J. Lubinsky?

By Eli (151.197.60.215) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:52 pm:

TJ is his grandson.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:59 pm:

Please don't judge the kid by his grandfather, the kid's father was a beautiful guy; and it seems T.J. is too!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:56 pm:

well TJ is cool with me being he got The Three Degrees on the last special

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:52 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:57 pm:

Above is a picture I have from left to right Helen, Sheila, and Val in 1978. Eli...This was life after PIR.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:59 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 12:02 am:

By blue (12.88.189.93) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:06 am:

As I grew up in Japan in 70's, I remember how popular they were at that time there. They recorded 2 albums(as Mark wrote before), sang in Japanese, published the photo book, made numeroun TV apprearances, and had their own TV special too.
For many years I simply wondered why they were not big here in US as in Japan and Europe.
It's really sad to hear That their manager held them back.
I heard that about 10 years ago, Val, Helen & Chythia and New Three Degrees toured in Japan at the same time.
The promoter who invited the new one did not know what was going on. It became a NEWS and Val, Helen & Chynthia had a press conference alongside of New group.

BTW does anybody have thier "Album of Love","Live in UK"(not"Live in London") and Fay's solo album "One Degree"?
If so, can't you describe them?
I hope I will be able to get them on CD someday.

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:57 am:

Blue....I did know of that. THat was when Barrett had younger girls and tried to relaunch the group. Album of Love and Live in the UK were put out in 82 and 83 on the girls own label at that time. They are rare gems. I do have them to:

By Eli (151.197.61.149) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:30 am:

Mark...
You ARE the ultimate 3 Degrees fan!!!

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:58 am:

http://surf.to/3degrees

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:10 pm:

Mark:
The photos are absolutely beautiful! Thank you for sharing them with us!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:15 pm:

Soul Sister:
I read Arnold Shaw's "Honkers & Shouters" book and it gave a blow-by-blow account of Herman Lubinsky's ways & means. He really was a piece of work from what I gather.

You're right about T.J. - he is a really nice guy and is trying to do the right thing with his PBS specials.

BTW - How did Jimmy finally break away from Herman Lubinsky?

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:50 pm:

Hey Kevgo,
Send me an email, I've lost yours and had a question.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

Kev-Go; He died! S.S.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

Soul Sister:
Yikes! So that's what it took...a bitter man with a more bitter grudge. I hope the devil has had a good time with his soul.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:39 pm:

Kev-Go;
From 1960 to 1975 he blocked the best albums Jimmy recorded in his young career, the 1962 masterpeice produced by Ray Charles who played piano on it and taught the other musicians how to play the music correctly to showcase Jimmy's voice & style. Marty Paich & Gerald Wilson did a brilliant job of arrainging, with strings. This was to be the big break thru album, Herman blocked it with bluff, Ray just started his new label and the powers to be told him he couldn't afford a lawsuit, Ray was plenty mad!
Then Atlantic & Joel Dorn produced an equally great two albums that were blocked by Herman. Herman along with his buddy Jimmy Evans blocked Jimmy from the circuits, so Jimmy couldn't make a living at his craft, only working some small clubs, so he had to get a 9 to 5 and live in vertual obscurity for years. But
blessings came thru Doc Pomus and Jimmy's been making up for lost time ever since!
S.S.

By stephanie (64.63.221.239) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:56 pm:

Dont be fooled those are not pictures of the Three Degrees those are pictures of me and Vickie and Soulsister and when we need a replacement if someone is sick Medusa comes in .....those are not the real Three Degrees!!!
Stephanie
A kidding wannabe girl group angel

By Eli (151.197.61.149) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:02 pm:

Soul Sister..
Yesterday when I was on the air with Jerry Blavat, I brough up Jimmy and jerry did a bang up impersonation of Jimmy!!!
He is so hapy that Jimmy is doing well and next time Jimmy hits Philly he wants to have him on the radio show!!

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:39 pm:

Bobby;
Thats cool with me, its all good! We appreciate your good word Bobby my soul brother no. 1 !!!
Now we got to work on Mr. DeLuca on what we discussed at Val Shively's, that would be the coolist!!!!!!!
Love Ya', S.S.J.

Angel Stephanie; Thanks for including me in your girl group! Also Vonnie can be a group member in good standing, she'd be an asset!
SoulangelSister

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

Eli....You should mention the THree Degrees to Blavat...THey would love to play at home...He was at the PBS show and saw them...

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Mark;
You sound like their agent. (smile) You must reaLLY love them!
S.S.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:08 pm:

I am not their agent. *smile*...But after everything in the previous posts...Its a damn shame that no one would book them.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:20 pm:

Mark;
Maybe that PBS appearance will open up some doors in the U.S.
S.S.

By Eli (151.197.61.149) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:26 pm:

Someone should take the bull by the horns and book them and fight the mighty opressing tyrant!!
Look into Psalms 91 and you will see just what I mean!!

By Bill (81.77.225.228) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:11 pm:

Mark,

Sorry to take so long to reply. I am not aware of anyone who has any videos to the RAH or VH1. The RAH was broadcast in late '79, not many housholds owned VCR's then! I am sure it has never been repeated either. I am sure you are aware some of the RAH live tracks were on side 2 of the K-Tel "Gold" album. Although from what I can remember of the TV show, not the same tracks that were shown. From Fan Club correspondence at the time, I can remember the complaints that both the TV and Album were terribly hacked up! I often look at the Ebay.co.uk site, under Three Degrees, when sometimes throws up some interesting stuff.

Caught Val Fayette and Sheila in "The French Connection" the other night. Pit Gene Hackman got in the way!!!

Bill

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:03 pm:

Hi to Mark from Chicago

I love "And in return"

Chicago is my last frontier!

David

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:55 pm:

Eli...I agree they should fight the tyrant but they did that and loss obviously cause they cannot use the name here. SO how and why would they go thru that again...

Bill: Do you still have any of old fan club newsletters?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 08:07 pm:

Eli...I agree they should fight the tyrant but they did that and loss obviously cause they cannot use the name here. SO how and why would they go thru that again...

Bill: Do you still have any of old fan club newsletters?

By Eli (151.197.216.185) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:36 pm:

Mark,
What goes around comes around!!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:57 pm:

Eli:...That is true. But how do you think it will come around for Val, Helen, and Cynthia.

By breathtakingguy (65.238.115.116) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 04:41 pm:

I have a tape of Fayette's "One Degree" solo recording. It's "ok". The first cut, "Leave a light in the Window" is catchy. The rest of the stuff is mediocre. I'm still glad I have it for historical sake of The Three Degrees.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:59 pm:

Breath....That is the one thing I do not have

Eli...How do you think it will come around for Helen, Val, and Cynthia

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 09:22 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:16 pm:

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Here are updated pics with Val, Cynthia and Helen

By rockfan (65.238.154.229) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

Love those pictures!!! Michael Michaud, 83 Elliot Street, Danvers, MA sells a lot of The Three Degree videos. I know he had the Royal Albert Hall one, but, he said it was only for trade. I had nothing to trade....so....don't own it. Give him a try. He has great girl group videos....some really rare stuff. He also was doing Three Degree LP'S to CD the last I heard. I was able to get all the Supremes out of print (mostly 70's) stuff on CD with the original cover art, as well as LoveUnlimited. So, all you girl group fans.....this might be you answer to some really good stuff!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 10:32 pm:

I know of the guy and I do not have that much to trade either. I have all of the LP's on CD too.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:55 pm:

Eli...You said you what goes around comes around. How do you think it will come around for Helen, Val, and Cynthia?

By Eli (151.197.217.213) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 07:13 am:

Richard WILL break under pressure, mark my words!!! He will relinquish his stranglehold on the group.

By julie (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

This is to Bobby Eli and anyone else concerned. Yes, it will go on to the next generation and many genertions after that.
The people out there have no idea about the real truth. Especially Bobby Eli who was with Richard Barrett for about 5 minutes of a 19 year career. Richard would like to thank him for the name tyrant svengalli and running a tight ship because from what I've seen if he hadn't there would not have been a group. From three school girls from the ghetto to Buckingham Palace is quite a jump I would say! What other group do you know who's manager has ever accomplished anything like that? Break under what pressure! Where did the girls go after Richard, what did they accomplish? Nothing! Just ask Sheila, she took what Richard taught her and used it to her best advantage! This is Richard's wife Julie Barrett Sheffield, England.
Mr. Barrett's reply will follow.

By R. Barrett. T.D.E.I. (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

I never responded to trash before. This time I don't want the public mislead. "I'm getting old" Wow! What a revelation, and to think I thought everyone was getting older, but I guess it's just me.
In responce to Bobby Eli: I was doing this business when Eli was in diapers. When I met Eli, he was an entertainment groupie. I gave him the opportunity to work with my act. He was a guitar player and nothing more. He knows nothing about me, my business or my business dealings. If he has a beef with me, it's because when in Las Vegas he came to the Casino dressed like a tramp with a raggedy guitar case with the dirty lining hanging out of it. I jumped on him about his attire and equipment. All the employees had to display class, and he had none! He only worked for me for a very short time anyway. As far as my reputation is concerned as a Tyrant and a Svengali, so be it. All my acts are winners! And "At least I have a reputation!" be it good, bad or indifferent, at least I don't steal or rip people off. How about that Eli!

As far as a stranglehold is concerned with Valerie, Cynthia (Whom I don't even know) and that other one. I have had nothing to do with them since 1981 and finally in Federal Court in 1989. So what stranglehold are you reffering too? I know you're not very intelligent, but Eli this shows your stupidity. When you start flapping your lips as least try to know what you're talking about!
The accusation that I held my own group back is just plain stupid. I made my act Superstars around the world. I guess your world extends from Atlantic City to California, and you probably don't know anything about the rest of the world. For the exeption of the places I took you Eli.

As far as the other ignorant jerks who have comments about me go F--k off, and get a life! You are the ones that should immediatly get councelling, because it is you who really needs it!

As far as Gamble and Huff are concerned, I would expect that from them. (Why?) because I wanted them to pay The Royalties they owed! To T.D.E.I And every other artist that they never paid!

To the jerk that uses RD as Identification
As for my book "SWEET & SOUR MUSIC" only one person has read this book. Anyone who says they have, is a liar! (Revealing) without a doubt! It's called the truth! If anyone goes into hiding, you can believe it certainly won't be me.

Richard Barrett.

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

Well.... it looks as though things are heating up in here. I just love this forum!!

By RD (63.188.33.22) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 04:51 pm:

Richard Barrett: I can't understand your venom towards me. I never attacked your character or call you any names. I don't even know you.

I never said I read your book. I said two people that I talked to said they did. One you know, one you probably don't. It's quite possible both were lying to me. One said he knew you and I know the other one don't. But they did know about your book. How did they know you even wrote one if they never saw it or at least heard some comments about it? It's hard to believe that you wrote a book and only showed it to one person; no wonder it hasn't been published. You got to shop that mother, Richard.

I'm no jerk and never called you one. Save your name calling for those who offended you, which I didn't. I simply stated what I was told by some others, i.e. "If the book is ever published he would have to go into hiding."

You should also remember that negative publicity is better than no publicity. Did you write a book or a diary? Thanks for slapping me for bringing up your book; believe me, I never will again. Nobody will hear about "your book" from me.

By Richard Barrett T.D.E.I (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 08:44 pm:

Dear RD: It would be nice to identify yourself. I would never go on the internet to spread hear say, or write something that somebody told me if I wasn't absolutly sure it was the truth. I am a very private person, more of a loner. My book is irrelevant to anyone until I'm ready to have it published. You might be suprised how clear the air will become. And how low people really are hiding behind lies and deception. I ask you to identify yourself as I don't think you even know me, or my history in this business.
Disregard the word jerk as your reply was cordial.
Richard Barrett

By RD (63.188.33.179) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 09:34 pm:

Hey RB: I don't know you. I stated that in my reply. Some guys I talked to said they seen/read/heardabout your book. And one of them made the comment. And NO! I won't reveal them; one has already been the victim of identity theft and I don't wanna be. The only reason I feel you should reveal yourself in a message forum is if you're trying to sell something or need the strokes--I need neither.

Most people who have wrote a book want the word out; how come you don't? By mentioning your book on a public message forum about music I introduced it to an audience of people who might want to buy it. Do you appreciate that. Hell naw!

I really have nothing else to say, but this, the first time I heard about your book was from a fellow in NY who initials are B. C.--you do the detective work seeing your so upset that somebody know about your book. Read the posts on this thread, I never said a thing about your character or lack thereof.

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:47 pm:

RB--why didn't u address the issue of preventing the Original Three Degrees from using the name that has been their liveliehood?Why are you so angry?PS--this is a civil group of people--we dont call each other names.

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

after reading what everybody has said about Richard, and reading his responds, he did not promote his book, you RD brought it up, he was talking about the 3 degrees and what Bobby Eli and others said he did to hurt the group, he made the 3 degrees, if it was not for Richard you would have never herd of them, I remember when Richard started the group, he took them to Boston, and when they came back to Philly they were stars,yes Richard is a tyrant, when it comes to the girls, if he was'nt thay would not be were they are today, do any of you guyes know how it is to take 3 young good looking girls on the road, and keep all the jive ass peaple off of them, he did a fabulous job,nothing last forever, he has made so many stars,the 3 degrees was just one, Richard is my friend, and has been for over 50 years.yes I did read some of the book,and it tells how the music business was in New York back in the day.
WELDON

By Julie (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 09:27 am:

Vandelron, Nobody seems to understand. When the girls broke their contract, did anyone care about Richard's livlyhood. When they first left they still made the big bucks...and still today make money off the name. You have no idea of the history of the name. That was Richard's blood and sweat. And again did they care about Richard?, No.
Today they are still working....
Richard has never answered to any negative things said about him before...But, it just gets tired when people really have no idea.

By RD (63.188.32.23) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 10:06 am:

Weldon, I don't have a problem with Richard I was just answering the part where he called me a jerk for mentioning his book and the comment made, which was not intended to be as serious as it appears...the guy who made it was laughing. I thought RB was still trying to market the book and this is a Three Degree thread so I spoke. If I had known he no longer wanted to pursue publication I would have never brought it up. I heard about the book about three years ago from a guy that's been in the music business as long as you and Richard and have wanted to read it every since. I really brought it up to see if someone would chime in as to where I could find a copy; I didn't know it never came out as a couple of o

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 11:01 am:

OK gang, I just read through this entire thread. So it appears some issues exist. I think it is only fair that this debate be allowed to continue. I only ask that it is civil. Thanks.
Ralph

By Jacob (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

WOW

By Jacob (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 11:21 pm:

Is this thread done

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 04:07 am:

Thank you Ralph.

By stephanie (64.63.221.191) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 03:28 pm:

Attention Mr Barrett,

I have a lot of respect for what you did with the Three Degrees and what they have done for us as fans. I would like to say that whether or not Bobby Eli was a pup or an entertainment groupie or whatever he has proven himself as a great guitar player and songwriter. I think when a lot of musicians are young they are entertainment groupies anyway and I thank you for giving our Eli a chance in the business. If you are a tyrant or not I dont care but I hope that you would reconsider the way that you speak to our members on the forum. I think that you would have a lot to add and if anyone upset you Bobby ..RD or anyone for that matter I will apologize on their behalf here is why.

Without revealing too much we would like to hear your viewpoint about things that went on in the biz and your reactions and experiences. Im not asking you to reveal anything in your book just little things and be a part of our forum here. It is an honor having you here should you choose to stay and I would also like to say that I would be interested in hearing about your days with the Chantels. Things can get heated up on any message board but I think you should use the forum to dispel any myths or give an opinion about what was written about you in the history books. For us fans you can use the forum to set the record straight.

I think this would be a fine opportunity for us to get know the talented Richard Barrett and what his thoughts are we can exclude these arguments.
I understand you repsonding to people if you feel you have been wronged but I would LOVE to see you respond candidly and informatively.

Why dont you join the forum and answer our questions and if there is something that is asked that is too private then let us know. I would hate to think that some people (including myself) ticked you off and you wouldnt want to tell us your side of the story on happenings and music and all other things pertaining.....
Stephanie
An inquisitive music junkie...I hope I have not said anything to disrespect you.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

Mr. & Mrs. Barrett:
First of all, welcome to Soulful Detroit. I say this to all newcomers to our Forum.
Second of all, as a New York City-based music executive who has studied the history of popular music from the past 50+ years, I'm curious to hear from you, Mr. Barrett, your history from your doo-wop years to the years managing the Three Degrees and beyond.
Third of all, please understand that when an executive runs a tight ship with everyone they come across - no matter the reason why the ship is run that way - that person may not be seen in a positive light because somewhere they rubbed someone the wrong way. Bobby Eli is a dear colleague of mine who may have been one of those folks (and he would be the last person I would want to rub the wrong way).
Your comments and contributions are definitely welcome here on the Forum.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Jacob (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

I hope he responds

By Jacob (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 04:27 pm:

Has Eli been in this thread yet since last week

By Bill (81.79.93.59) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 03:52 pm:

Hi all,

Just to add that UK had a treat on Tuesday night when the "Plus" satelite channel showed a re-run of "At the Wheeltappers", a strange show from the early '70's, based in a North UK working mens club. First up were the Three Degrees, Val, Sheila and Fayette, singing "I like Being a Woman", a song I have never seen them sing live before!

Bill

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 07:03 pm:

Bill...I have seen that clip. Fay, Val, and Sheila sound good on that song live. Overall that is a good performance

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:18 am:

If there are any Japanese fans in the forum I saw on a Japanese website that the group is in Japan at the Bluenote Jazz Clubs

By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:17 am:

If Mr. Barrett would care to respond. Do you remember the name of the reconditioned church where you produced "Maybe" by The Chantels?" And also, where did they cut "Look In My Eyes"?" Thank you. I always liked your music.

By Richard BarrettT.D.E.I (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:38 pm:

dvdmike, For the life of me I can't remember the name of the church. The only thing prevalent in my mind is the fact that on the recording date the church's pipe organ had been removed, which made me crazy as the church was due for demolition.
The answer to the second question "LOOK IN MY EYES" was recorded at Bell Sound Studios on 54th Street between 8th Ave and Broadway. Enginerred by, Al Weintraub. Written and produced by, yours truly.
Thank you

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:57 pm:

nice to see my main man Richard on the forum,Richard is a Philly guy who went to New York and did BIG things in the music business,
WELDON

By dvdmike (68.72.165.135) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 12:48 am:

Thank you, Mr. Barrett for the quick response. Did you write the arrangement for "Look In My Eyes" as well? Don't mean to bug anyone, but I'm really deeply into this sort of thing. I have several databases full of this sort of technical information that might be useful to someone at sometime.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

Has anyone heard the Swan Recordings of The Three Degrees

By dvdmike (68.72.107.1) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 10:18 pm:

"Gee Baby, I'm Sorry" from '64 is the only Swan hit.

By motown_david (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 04:55 am:

There's a great cd which was issued in England in 1992, which is a complete collection of their Swan recordings.
Unsurprisingly, it's called "The Complete Swan Recordings". It's issued by Sequel(NEM CD 631).
It also contains Sheila Ferguson's solo material on Swan.
Not sure whether it's stil available.
Hope this helps.
David.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:25 pm:

That CD was Helen Scott, Fayette Pinkney, and Janet Harmon at their best at age 15. There harmony on "I'm Gonna Need You" is so beautiful. Helen did a lot of leads then. When she returned to the group in 1976 she was the soprano and it was right after PIR stuff so Sheila and Val were doing the leads.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.17) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:32 pm:

Mr Barretts work speaks for itself.
great to have yet another icon on this forum.
mel(andthensome)

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:23 pm:

Any other Swan recording favorites or memories from anyone?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:25 pm:

Any memories of the Ariola Recordings with Gorgio Moroder?

By Bill (81.79.31.165) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 04:20 pm:

The "New Dimensions" album was issued in the UK in 1978. It contains the (UK) hits "Givin'up, Givin'in", which just got outside the top ten, "The Runner", (No.10), and "Woman in Love", (No.3). The first side is a non-stop sequence, starting with Givin'... and followed by two other tracks. Quite "punchy" lots of synth, etc. A big step from the PIR and Epic stuff. The album version of "The Runner" is a completley different sound to the 12" single release. The next album "3D" was released in late 1979, and only had one single which made any impact, "My Simple Heart", (this is not one of my favourites, but thats my opinion!). The first track, "Jump the Gun" is a hard hitting track, which probably is the furthest away from the "usual" Three Degree sound, which may be why it didn't do too well. A shame really, because it is quite a good song, with Val on lead. It leads directly into "Red Light", a move back to disco, (This I remember used to be the second song of their shows around this time). The next single release was "Starlight", a big orchestra ballad, with good lyrics and vocals, (again led by Val). Unfortunatley this and the next "Without you", didn't fare very well. I remember that the track "BodyCheck" did quite well in the US.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:15 am:

Starlight is actually one of my favorites. It has a Philly Neo Soul sound to it. I actually did like Red Light as well. THose were some of the best years for the girls. I saw an old tv clip of them performing Woman In Love and it was almost like they were perfect. They were really N-Sync vocally and in movement.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:08 pm:

Starlight is actually one of my favorites. It has a Philly Neo Soul sound to it. I actually did like Red Light as well. THose were some of the best years for the girls. I saw an old tv clip of them performing Woman In Love and it was almost like they were perfect. They were really N-Sync vocally and in movement.

By soulaholic (68.41.47.183) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:41 pm:

Killer post sequence

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:34 pm:

I was just trying to keep the forum and posts going

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

i didn't know who this richard person is, but
i'm sure we can learn a great deal from him.
but there is never a excuse to degrade
anybody on a forum.i welcome his knowledge
but find his mannerism tasteless.

By Lange (195.47.135.246) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

Hi!

Finding this forum and other Three Degrees fans on it is just great. I'm from Denmark and have never stumbled into other Three Degrees fans here, so I really enjoyed reading the previous messages from which I gained a lot of knowledge and a few of my questions got answered.

I was wondering if there is anyone out there who knows why Three Degrees didn't continue recording for the Ariola label after a string of successful singles as well as a few singles that weren't so successful?
I'm wondering if they decided to leave themselves because they wanted to be on their own or if Ariola wasn't interested in signing them again? I find it hard to understand if Ariola wans't interesed in re-signing them as they were such an successful act both on the stage as well as on the record. Can anyone help here?

Further more I just have to say that I have never come across a group who recorded such great live albums "Live In Japan" ('75), "Live" ('75)and the B-side of the "Gold" album. It's just pure magic. Hope that the label(s) in charge of these amazing live recordings will release them some day... A complete live recording from around '75 as well as the complete concert from RAH will be more than welcome. Never seen Three Degrees live on stage (only Sheila in "Oh! What A Night" earlier this year), but there is no doubt about that the live CD's from this period will do it for me. I find the LP "Live In The U.K." a little less interesting than the other live recordings. Anyone who knows how the tracking list for their concert at RAH '79 was and is there anyone who knows if "Do It" was part of their concerts?

Also I'll be interesed in getting in contact with other fans of Three Degrees, so please feel free to contact me.

Greetigs from Denmark.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 01:05 am:

That is a good question as to why they stopped recording. Those singles and albums were good. I believe that is when they were going thru problems with management. Don't quote me as the management was in the forum. Those live albums were good. I actually like "Live In The UK". Helen, Sheila, and Valerie did some nice arrangements on that album.

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 12:07 pm:

Fayette,

You really might want to do a little research into just who the legendary Richard Barrett is. (Start looking up info the Valentines, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, the Chantels, etc., etc.) You might be a little surprised... and awed.

By fayette (152.163.252.68) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:45 pm:

fury no offense but somethings are better left
unknown

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 09:47 pm:

I agree on that one with you Fay.

By John Lester (217.40.208.43) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 08:20 am:

I loved the ladies' SAW stuff too. It was a shame that I only got to hear 2 songs. "The Heaven I Need was a wonderful track and I loved the video for that one.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 09:23 am:

John...They actually did 3 songs during their time with SAW. There was a song Sheila wrote called "Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie" that was on the B-side of "Heaven I Need" and of course the 3rd song was "This Is The HOuse". These were the last songs Sheila recorded with Helen and Valerie.

By John Lester (217.40.208.43) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 02:59 pm:

Is Gimme Gimme Gimme on CD somewhere?

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 04:58 pm:

No it is not on CD anywhere. Only people I know to have it are die hard THree Degree fans

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:37 am:

I saw the girls in the mid 1980's in concert at Wimbledon, London, but was disappointed because they did'nt sing a single Three Degrees song. The SAW period must have been soon after this, sorry I did'nt see them around then too. Never mind.

By mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

That does not sound like them. In the mid 80's they should have at least done some Ariola stuff like "My simple Heart", Giving Up Giving In, The Runner, and Woman In Love, and of course When will I see You Again. Between 82 and 84 Sheila wrote 2 singles for them. One was a ballad called "Sonnet To Love" from their Album Of Love and the 2nd single was "Liar".

By Bill (81.79.100.57) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:23 pm:

I saw them at Wimbledon, probably at the same concert as Stevie. The set they did was the concert recorded for "live in the UK", (The album was on sale at the shows). I think the lack of Philly did disapoint some people, When will I see you again was sung as a medoly with the Police's Every move you make. Of course I enjoyed it!

This was a definate move away from previous stuff, which (in my opinion), didn't really work. The SAW releases were far superior, and a great sound, which got quite good press in the Music mags of the time.

By oscar (68.86.253.3) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 11:20 pm:

Forum,

I first met Richard in the early ninety's in preparation for a music date in the far east. I had heard rumors that fit the description of the man that some in this forum have attested to. I remember bracing myself for the possibility of an abrasive encounter. However, I found that Richard is an intelligent, talented, strong and caring person. We have become very good friends and I value this friendship. He has depth of character and his attention to detail is very high. I have met many people past and present who have worked with Richard and hold him in high esteem. These are also folks that have good work ethics, intelligent and are people oriented. Now the trend that I have seen through the years is that those who have self esteem problems, lack high work ethics and or just don't really know the man have so many negative things to say. I am speaking experientially. On many occasions I have met folks in the industry who have run off with the mouth about Richard and Richard's personal business. They did not know that I knew him or perhaps that I may have just finished a conversation with him. Sometimes these folks would begin to says things that were absolute lies because they were not aware that I knew otherwise. This was ironic because these people were never close enough to really know those type of details. ...and some really knew nothing at all. I have spent much time with Richard and his family. I have seen him in good times and at challenging times and I can say that I have never seen him conduct himself in a manner that is any less than a gentleman. As for musicians who have played for him: ...I know and have met many fine musicians with great reputations that have said openly that they would play with Richard again with no hesitation. Now these are words and experiences from the "horses mouth" and not just hearsay.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 11:56 pm:

Bill,

The "Live in the UK" album was right before the SAW stuff as you know. I know people that commented on that tour you and Stevie saw and some of them liked it.

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 04:56 am:

oscar i understand your loyalty, i don't know
richard never seen a photo of richard and
really don't think i want to know richard,based
on the way he carried himself in this forum.
we have different opinions but after reading
numerous threads, i have my first time to
see anyone dissing the way a person dress.
that was the most childish thing i ever seen.
so sometimes people treat you by the way you
carry yourself.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 06:33 am:

Thanks for the info Bill, my memory was of a complete lack of soul at the concert I saw of the girls at Wimbledon, however I do have recollections of them doing a good version of the Maze hit Joy & Pain. Was this on the Live in the UK album?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 09:52 am:

Stevie...

I think that song they did from Maze was "Love Is The Key" so from what I was told.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:10 am:

Mark,
Sheila was not at the Royal Wedding, she was in America heavily pregnant with twins at the time. (The royal scrounger Charlie must have had fun going all over the place following her at the concerts before this though). At least his bid for a bit of street cred meant that the Three Degrees did well in the publicity stakes. So did they record a Maze record?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

Mark,

They did not record it. It was in their live show at the time of the "Live In The UK" record that we spoke on before. I know Sheila was not at the wedding. Valerie and Helen attended the reception.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:58 pm:

I enjoyed the musical "Soul Train", it was a good celebration of a wonderful era of black music, & Sheila Ferguson is still very sexy! The rest of cast was pretty good as well. Has anybody seen "Oh What A Night"? How does it compare?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:38 pm:

I am not in the UK so I was not able to see any of Sheila's musicals.

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:33 pm:

When I was in London in July of '99 I attended Soul Train--The Musical, and I thoroughly enjoyeyd it!!!!!!

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 09:33 am:

Eli...Where ya been?

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:48 am:

Ive been here all along, just about everywhere!!

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:57 am:

Me too. I was lurking for a little while before posting again too.

By John Lester (213.123.155.10) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 01:37 pm:

Oh dear Mark - wot a shame you are not in the UK!
Cos yo missed Shelia on TV the other day promoting a charity.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:04 pm:

John.Yeah it is a shame I am not in the UK. How was the show? What did she sing?

By john lester (213.123.142.133) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 01:47 pm:

She was just talking about a charity. I get the impression she spends a lot of time with charities.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 04:59 pm:

Ok...That is cool that she works on some charities

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 09:43 am:

What is anyone's most memorable Three Degrees performance?

By Julie (205.188.209.109) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 10:25 am:

Royal Albert Hall

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:33 am:

Can you tell us more about the show? Are you Julie (Barrett) that posted before in the forum.

By Lange (195.47.130.5) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:07 pm:

When thinking of live recordings with The Three Degrees from the period 1974 � 1980 I wonder how many that actually were released.

I know of the �Live In London�, �Live In Japan� LP�s and the B-side from the �Gold� album. Then there is the recording of �La Chanson Populaire� recorded in Paris. That exact track is one of my favourite live-recordings with The Three Degrees (it�s amazing) � it�s better than the version on �Live In Japan� (if you can put it that way, as the recording of the track on that album isn�t bad at all).

Wasn�t the live recording from Paris of �La Chanson Populaire� released as a single in France? And what about the B-side? I seem to remember that I once noticed that it was another live track from the Philly years. However I seem to remember that is was a track that wasn�t released on any of the two first live albums. I�ve never been able to find the single, so I�m not quite sure�

Is there any of you who knows of other recordings from that period that has been released in certain countries like on singles, maybe on a �Greatest Hits� album or promo releases. By other recordings I mean songs that wasn�t included on the live albums mentioned or versions of a track that was included on the mentioned live albums, but recorded at another concert in another country?

At the same time I was wondering if anyone can tell me if the disco version of �Do It � Use Your Mind� from the Japanese single release is much different from the original/album/single version?

By Bill (81.79.9.63) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:44 pm:

Mark,
Of the 9 Live concerts I have seen during the 80's and 90's, the most memorable was a charity gig the ladies did at the London Paladium, around 1981. I managed to get a single seat at the front of the theatre! I had seen the ladies 2 or 3 times before, but this time around the set was different, with songs such as "Free Ride" and "McArthur Park" included. The audience were all mainly linked to the charity, and were not necesserily fans, but at the end the whole theatre was up dancing. Great times....

By motown_david (195.93.50.10) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 06:04 pm:

Are the 3 Degrees touring England in August? My good mate Tom has just phoned me to say that he's booked the group for his blessing in Shrewsbury at that time?
Didn't know they did weddings, barbecues and bar-mitzvahs!!
David.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

Bill...When you saw the girls it was Helen, Sheila, and Val right? Tell us about the other 8 or 9 times.

Motown Dave...You need to check there website www.thethreedegrees.com for their tourdates.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:14 pm:

Bill...When you saw the girls it was Helen, Sheila, and Val right? Tell us about the other 8 or 9 times.

Motown Dave...You need to check there website www.thethreedegrees.com for their tourdates.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

Does anybody have the 1993 German CD "Out OF the Past Into The Future" with Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia?

By Julie (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 08:01 pm:

Yes Mark this is Julie Barrett. That show was the most memorable to me, and I've seen many. The atmosphere was electric. Christopher Reeves was there..It really was fantastic, well actually all except for when the girls did their solo's Helen was off key and sour. The performance of Sheila and Valerie of course was remarkable so they made up for it.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:52 pm:

They are all 3 great voices and the Ariola years were great. I have heard from friends that it was 3 hours long but they on;y showed the Ariola singles on the broadcast when it was edited. No PHilly stuff. Helen, Sheila, and Valerie had a good blend and harmonies. Those were my favorite years. I love Starlight.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 05:50 am:

I fell in love with the girls (especially Sheila)when as a school boy I watched them sing When Will I See You Again. They are great performers but their later music does not compare to the class of the funky Philly days. I love Year Of Decision.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 08:56 am:

I mean nothing will beat the Philly years. But Ariola was good too. It got them back on the charts. I mean I like the blend of Fay, Sheila, and Val as well as Helen, Sheila, and Val. Fay had that rich soprano, Helen had the light sweet soprano. Val was like a female Eddie Levert. Very soulful, rich, and powerful. Sheila of course had that straight Pop smoothness. To me either line-up was good. I mean when Fay left I think Helen was the right choice to bring back. It was not a big difference in the sound or harmonies.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 10:01 am:

The girls are great singers with their collective harmonising. I think Sheila's voice often shows fantastic dramatic tones. I was listening to some of the early recordings a few days ago, I love Sheila's "Little Red Riding Hood". The Philly period was magical because of Gamble & Huff's skills in linking funk/soul with pop. It was great to see their popularity rise in the late seventies early eighties but personally I think the songs became too pop, and not enough soul. I still wish I had seen them in the SAW period though.

By Lange (195.47.137.15) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

I have the Ariola CD from 1993 "Out Of The Past Into The Future" with Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia.
However I have never really been able to make my mind up about the CD.

I haven't played the CD for a long time. Think I'm gonna give it a try again tonight.

Mark what do you think of the CD?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 04:24 pm:

Lange...For it being 1993 and the times. I think the production and vocals are great on the new songs. I like "Emotional Thing", "Question Of Love", "Aint' No Woman". I actually like the updated version of "Dirty Ol Man" and the remixes they released. "Hurry Hurry" was released as a single...

By Rod (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 09:04 pm:

I love the eaarly and "Maybe" is my all time favorite. i would love to hear a live version of that song. Why did Fayette leave the group? I don't remember seeing a answer for her departure.
Anyone have videos of Fay,Val,& Sheila or with Helen?

By Eli (151.197.113.58) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

I actually played on Maybe and a song which I co wrote called Magic Mirror.
It was recorded at A&R studios on 48th st in NYC early in 1970.
It was produced by Richard Barrett and arranged by Hutch Davie, for Roulette records.

By MArk (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 09:54 am:

Rod...Fay left to pursue her education...At that time she was the original Degree going for 13 years straight. Then they called Helen to come back and she did. And she is still there...

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 12:53 pm:

The change of Helen replacing Fayette came in 1976

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:13 pm:

Lange...Did you listen to the CD?

Bill....Do you have any other memorable concerts...

By Bill (81.79.86.97) on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 03:30 pm:

Mark,

A bit rusty on dates, etc! but I first saw the group in 1980, just after seeing/meeting them at a fan club do in London. This concert was in Bournemouth, (South England), and started with the ladies singing a song called "Star Love" wearing the gold cape like dresses worn on the cover of the "gold" album. The set included songs from the Ariola albums, (They were promoting Starlight at the time). Highlight was the second half of the show with "Dear God". Val singing solo, until joined by Sheila and Helen. I saw them again that year at Wembley, with the same show. Next was the Paladium, already mentioned, then Wimbledon (around 1981), with a similar show. During 1982 the group played at the (then) new London Barbican Arts centre, promoted as the first "pop" act to play there. They were probably the last, as the ticket and organisation at the centre was a joke. The show was great, and included the "Fame" medely, which ended with When Will I see You again sung in Japanese. Highlight for me was the inclusion of "If and When". Due to the poor ticket sales of the first shows, (they did 2 a night), Fan Club members got in free for the 1st show on the following night, so obviously I went again! I then saw them at Wimbledon again, (mentioned earlier in the forum). This was during the period the group tried to change thier image, and included the single "Liar". This was the last show I saw with Sheila in the group. In 1989 I saw the group perform with Billy Paul and Harold Melvin in London. The group by then had Victoria Wallace in. The ladies sounded as good as ever, with Victoria sharing the lead on Woman in Love, and also included songs from thier album "And Holding...." However it did seem to lack something, the set was mixed up too much, with one song leading straight into another. The last time I saw them perform live was in 1997, at our Local lesuire centre. This show was with Sister Sledge and FLOS. The 3 Degrees were the main act, and I have to say it was a great show, nothing like the last I saw. Cynthia Garrison was now in the group, and the ladies all looked if they really enjoyed performing. Highlight was the song "dance little sister", which got everyone up. Keep trying to catch them, hopefully again soon! Bill

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 11:41 pm:

Those were some good years in the 80's...Helen, Sheila, and Val always sounded good on If and WHen even though Fay was on the record and not Helen...

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:05 am:

Bill....How do you mean the show in 1989 was mixed up. Did Victoria just share the lead on "Woman In Love". I would imagine that she did "Giving Up Giving In" too?

By Lange (195.47.137.72) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 05:23 pm:

Mark...

I have now managed to listen to the "Out Of The Past Into The Future" CD quite a few times now.

I'm still not really able to make up my mind. It's not because it's a bad CD. The voices are of course more than great. However I have never really been into when a group re-records their own songs. So that makes the fist part of the CD a bit difficult. The originals are better - no doubt about that. Anyway I have to say that I like the start of "T.S.O.P" with the "radio" sound then knicking into the updated verion. "Dirty Ol' Man" and "When Will I See You Again" actually also work quite well. Also I have to say that when comparing the re-recordings of the "old" tracks on this CD together with some of the other re-reacordings that Valerie, Helen & Cynthia have done, then the included recordings on "Out Of The Past..." are far better.

The last part of the CD with the new tracks also works, eventough there are a few tracks that not really are working in my ears - if you can put it that way. "I'm Through With Him" is a real good track together with "If You Don't Want My Love". "Give Me A Chance" is also quite good, I just don't like the rap parts in it.

I never really been able to figure out why a better cover wasn't made for the CD? I think the last picture in the booklet (the back side) contains a great photo of the girls, which would have done so much better on the front-cover.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 09:28 am:

Lange....

I like "Out Of The Past Into The Future". I think it is the best album Helen and Valerie did along with Cynthia since Sheila left. I like the rerecordings on "Out Of The Past Into The Future". If you get the Japanese release of that CD you get the new version of "Dirty Ol Man" 7 inch as a bonus track. They released it as a single with "Emotional Thing" which is a beautiful ballad that the girls all share lead on. Other tracks I like are "Question Of Love" and "Ain't No Woman". Helen has such a sweet soprano lead to "Question of Love" and she sounds great on "Ain't No Woman". Helen adds an innocence to "Take Good Care Of Yourself". Cynthia brings her soul to the same songs."Ain't No Woman", Emotional Thing, "Question Of Love", and the ending ad libs of "If You Don't Want My Love". The production and vocals are very perfected on this release.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:26 pm:

Lange...Is the CD working on you anymore?
Bill....How do you mean the show in 1989 was mixed up. Did Victoria just share the lead on "Woman In Love". I would imagine that she did "Giving Up Giving In" too?

By rod (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 08:52 pm:

has anyone heard the ladies sing "Maybe" Live

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 09:24 am:

I have heard a tape of Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia performing Maybe in 1992 on a BBC radio broadcast when they were on tour with The Temptations. They did it at the end of Medley of hits and they did it in its entirety.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 09:12 am:

There is good news for us English fans, since Sheila Ferguson split with her husband and her daughters have grown up - the lady is everywhere! She's in the musical "Oh What A Night", been in a show with Madelaine Bell & Ruby Turner and soon will be appearing in "Thorughly Modern Millie". Great stuff.

By Rod (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:03 pm:

Are ther any songs By the 3 Degrees with Fayette on lead vocal? Who sings lead to "If & When"?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 09:04 am:

Fayette sang lead on "Souvenirs to Souvenirs" on the "Toast Of Love" album. She had half a verse on "Lonelier Are Fools" also. There may be some songs in the Roulette Years. I cannot think of them now. Also she had a part on "Contact".

By Rod (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 11:54 pm:

What verse Fayette sings on "Lonelier are Fools"
Also who sings the lead to "If & When?. I have the Roulette years cd, so if can come up with those leads I would greatly appreciate it. I want to know what she sounds like as a lead vocalist. I like what she did on "Everybody gets to go to the Moon" and Her adlibs on the Live LP on "Year of Decision. She also had a verse on "Livin For the City" I like it when girl-groups show case all the voices in the group ie. (EnVogue)

By John Lester (81.132.34.217) on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 01:36 am:

I feel a bit sad for Mark what with Shelia doing so much over here in the UK. Mark, maybe you ought to move to the UK!!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 09:49 am:

Rod...Sheila sings the lead on "If and When" on the verses but the breakdown and vamp ad-libs are Valerie. John I should move to the UK. I just try to find Three Degrees fans and the real die hard fans are hard to find. One's that collect everything they do such as video.

By Rod (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 02:19 pm:

Thanks Mark. I'm like you I would love to see them live or just have video of the ladies. All I have is there cameo in the French Connection. Is anyone reading into this, Mark and I want video footage PLEASE HELP US OUT (SMILE)

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 10:59 pm:

Rod....They do not surface...I have been looking for years...

By gordy (62.64.141.113) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 07:27 am:

Can anyone help........does anyone have a copy for sale or a tape of Fayette Pinkneys album?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:49 am:

I do not have the CD..

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 10:31 am:

Does anyone like the Swan recordings? Any memories or favorite songs?

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 10:33 am:

Mark - Driving me mad (not you!!). I think that was a special sound.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 01:00 pm:

Carl....What is great about The Three Degrees is that you hear their growth throughout their 40 year career. Although they had a revolving personnell line-up you still hear each valid member (Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Valerie) voice grow thru time. And on the Swan recordings I like the harmony of "I'm Gonna Need You" and its pretty to hear a young Helen Scott on the original Three Degrees version of "Maybe" even though it sounds bossa nove like. She still has that same sweet sound. I do not like the orignal version of "Gee Baby" although I liked it in the 70's on Standing Up For Love when Sheila, Helen, and Valerie updated it. But the Swan years were great harmonies of and songs with Helen, Fayette, and Janet Harmon.

By MArk (205.188.200.49) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:45 am:

Carl....What is great about The Three Degrees is that you hear their growth throughout their 40 year career. Although they had a revolving personnell line-up you still hear each valid member (Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Valerie) voice grow thru time. And on the Swan recordings I like the harmony of "I'm Gonna Need You" and its pretty to hear a young Helen Scott on the original Three Degrees version of "Maybe" even though it sounds bossa nove like. She still has that same sweet sound. I do not like the orignal version of "Gee Baby" although I liked it in the 70's on Standing Up For Love when Sheila, Helen, and Valerie updated it. But the Swan years were great harmonies of and songs with Helen, Fayette, and Janet Harmon.

By motown_david (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 01:42 pm:

On Saturday night in a castle near Shrewsbury in England, we attended the blessing ceremony of 2 of our dearest friends.
At 9 pm the 3 Degrees came on to entertain all 90 guests for 45 minutes and boy, did they entertain!
I'd never seen Val, Helen and Cynthia perform before but they knocked my socks off throughout. They started the show with Higher and Higher, performed all the hits you would expect and also did an interesting Philly medley, which had us all yelling and shouting for more.
This group is highly recommended!
David.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

Dave,

That is there arrangement of Jackie Wilson "Your Love keeps Lifting Me Higher" going into Diana Ross "Take Me Higher"...There Philly medley is a tribute to their fellow Philadelphia artist and it is a nice medley..They do "The Love I Lost", Aint' No Stopping Us Now, if You don't know me by now, Together(which they did record a version of), Disco Inferno, Love train, and TSOP.

By Mark (205.188.200.181) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 10:39 pm:

motown_david.....Did you get a chance to meet them afterward. What has been anyone's experience in meeting the Three Degrees personally. Any fond memories of meeting Fayette, Sheila, Helen, and Valerie?

By motown_david (195.93.34.9) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 01:54 pm:

Yes, I did, Mark. They are very gracious ladies, very friendly and very interested in the 70s scrapbook that I gave to the happy couple as part of their blessing gift.
Helen and Val looked through it carefully and were delighted with what they saw. Cindy was a little quieter and hung in the background.
I did also promise that any photos that turned out well I would post on their website as they wanted lots of pix to keep the site up to date and interesting. And yes, they do visit it regularly.
I'd never seen the group before this night but I'll certainly be going to see them again when they come back to England.
David.

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 07:52 am:

David...what kind of scrapbook was it. Were there Three Degrees pictures in it? Did they say anything else about there site and future plans? Anyone else have memories of meeting Sheila, Helen, Valerie,or Fayette?

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 08:00 am:

Mark,
I had the pleasure of meeting Sheila a few years ago before the Soul Train musical - it was obvious she was really enjoying herself starring in a Soul music revival.
Favourite Swan records are "Gee Baby (I'm Sorry)", "You're Gonna Miss Me", Bongo's On The Beach", "Gotta Draw The Line".
What is your favourite Three Degrees concert?

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 04:24 pm:

I have never seen them live. Some friends of mine years ago had the Albert Hall concert with Helen, Sheila, and Valerie and it was an excellent show. The Macartney/Lennon medley was beautiful

By motown_david (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 06:36 am:

Here's my second go at answering your email, Mark, as the first reply is still somewhere up in cyberspace!
The scrapbook dates from the late 70s and contains press cuttings, fan club newsletters, black and white 8x10s, a tour programme and signed pictures.
Not bad for £10 ($15)in a collector's shop. My friend was very pleased to be given it as a present.
All the ladies said about their web site was that they take an active interest in it and were keen to build up their fan base. They particularly wanted fans to post photos. No, mine still aren't processed yet but should be today.
David.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:45 am:

David,

Maybe you could post the pics here in the forum. Do you have any extra copies of the scrap book?
I would like to see it. Did the ladies have a band with them?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 11:06 pm:

David,

Maybe you could post the pics here in the forum. Do you have any extra copies of the scrap book?
I would like to see it. Did the ladies have a band with them? Anyone else have pics of The Three Degrees?

By motown_david. (195.93.34.9) on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

I'm afraid not, Mark. You see, the bookds were a present and the guy I gave them to lives a couple of hundred miles away.
Sorry!
David.

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 05:50 pm:

David can you post the photos in the forum or e-mail them to me...

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 11:01 pm:

Did anyone know The Three Degrees rerecorded "Contact". It is on a video released in the UK. Val, Helen, and Cynthia are singing it in a video...David did you get the photos?

By John Lester (81.132.210.61) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:30 pm:

I just come off the London Underground at St Paul's where I saw a poster for a new stage production of Thoroughly Modern Millie with Amanda Holden and Maureen Lipman. Also starring was SHELIA FERGUSON.

Mark - you have been told well in advance!!!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 05:04 pm:

John Lester...I knew about the play months ago but I do not live in the UK.....I frequently check Sheila's site.

By John Lester (81.132.210.61) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 06:17 pm:

Mark

You make me feel dispensible...LOL..only kidding

I had to run from the station to email you that message because I was scared I might have a senior moment and forget about it by the time I got home!

I knew you didn't live in the UK - but I thought you might like to put on your swimming trunks and start swimming! LOLOL

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

John....No I won't go swimming for that. My dream is to see Helen, Valerie, and Sheila on the same stage again but we will never see that unfortunately. If that happens I may take a swim. Did you ever see the three of them together?

By John Lester (81.132.214.63) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 02:22 am:

The 3 Degrees were on UK TV so much in the old days that I really didn't need to leave my front door to see them. I recall Shelia being at a reception party many years ago and she was SO friendly, I almost felt like I had made a friend for life. What a lovely woman.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 05:43 am:

Us UK Three Degrees fans have been lucky, even when the ladies have not been getting out much in the way of quality records they have received pretty continous publicity over here.
This is very rare for black artists - the only other soul artist I can think of always in the news is Michael Jackson!
There was recently a radio programme called Three Degrees West talking about three star black footballers (Soccer)from the late seventies who were named after the group. Racism was so bad at the time that you would't expect to see 3 black players in the same team.
I saw the girls in The French Connection a couple of weeks ago. I think they did get into the lower reaches of the charts a few years ago with the George Michael record 'Last Christmas'.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:30 am:

John...Do you have any of those tv shows on tape. Steve..Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia did remake "Last Xmas" and did a video for it. The video and single version is more dance and their album version is more mellow.

By John Lester (81.132.218.44) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 02:22 am:

Mark

I don't unfortunately. Motown_david is more likely to have them than me or, mor specifically, our mutual 3-degrees-addict (non-internet) friend. If you want I can give you a snail address for him and you can write to him.

Contact me through the email address below

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 06:20 am:

I saw an article recently claiming the Three Degrees were a UK group!
They almost are I suppose - I saw another article saying that Valerie had married a fan from Nottingham.

By motown_david (195.93.34.9) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

Sorry, John and Mark, I don't have any 3 Degrees videos. I'm a late convert to them.
My photos of them at the blessing have turned out pretty well but my scanner is nearly dead and I have to buy a new one soon. They will be posted sometime...Promise.
David.
P.S. How are you, John?

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:43 pm:

Stevie,
Valerie did marry a guy from Nottingham. I saw the articles too. David. I can't wait to see the pictures. I am sure they came out nice.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:41 am:

Stevie...What else did the article say about The Three Degrees

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:53 am:

Mark,
One of the things written was more an advert for a show in the UK I think. There aren't any British girl groups with the class of the Three Degrees unfortunately, it would be nice to have a strong girl group scene in the UK. Mis-teeq is about the best over here.
My other article was a local paper with the star gossip recording Valeries marriage to a Notts geezer.

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:58 am:

Steve....LOLA@ the name Notts geezer...Do you know him? There are not many girl groups out there with the class of the Three Degrees. Destiny's Child is good. But no groups perform like the Three Degrees. Times have changed to where groups and artists have extra dancers and things with there show. To where if Sheila was singing lead then Helen and Valerie danced and kept the harmony in the background. Or they stood there and sang there asses off on Macarthur Park until they had their dance rountine toward the end of the song.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:08 pm:

No Mark, only been to Nottingham a couple of times watching the footie at Forest & County. I like Destiny's Child, En Vogue also,(saw them at a London gig late 80's).
The invention of the video has unfortunately meant increased concentration on what you look like rather than what you sound like. (Though the producers would'nt have had a difficult job making videos of the Degrees if that stuff was happenning in the 60s or 70s!)

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:56 pm:

Steve, Video has enhanced the visual aspect of artists. The Three Degrees did their first music video in 1985 with The Heaven I Need. Image is what the music industry is based on now anyway. En Vogue does have the complete package. They can sing and they look good. They were really hyped up but I do recall one time when they one a Soul Train award they tried to sing TSOP on the spot and failed. I thought Funky Divas my ass. I laughed.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:01 am:

Mark,
'The Heaven I Need' video was good, but I think around this time problems in the background affected the group.
I remember reading an article by Sheila Ferguson saying that towards the end of her time with the Three Degrees she was'nt talking to Valerie or Helen.
I went to a club where they were due to make a personal appearance around this time but they did'nt turn up. My luck has got to change one day!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 10:31 am:

Steve...I heard it was a lot going on internally as well. That sounds about right. About the time they made that song they were having term oil. I saw a girl groups documentary from the UK and they were ranked number 7. This is what I posted from the interview a few months back.
"From what I saw in an interview a few years ago from a UK top ten girl groups documentary. The Three Degrees were ranked 7 of all time in the UK and they did not interview Sheila. They interviewed Helen, Val, and Richard Barrett. Richard talked about how he had to be focused and how he was like Phil Spector and on the topic of their courtcase he said he was not gonna let anyone go around using the name. Helen and Val spoke on the groups affiliation with Prince Charles, Sheila's relationship with Barrett and how Sheila left abruptly. Sheila was living in the UK and Helen and Val lived in Philly at the time. They said that they were not as well off as she was. Helen stated in that interview that Sheila called and said I don't wanna do this anymore and can you tell Val. Helen stated no you tell her and that on the phone you could hear a pin drop cause Val was stunned and felt betrayed. THey were not ready to call it quits. In other interviews I heard that Sheila wanted to take the group into a punk rock direction and Helen and Val did not want to do that"

So Steve that should say it all.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:09 pm:

Feeling one degree under at the moment. My ex partner has thrown out a few hundred of my old records, including Isaac Hayes - Hot Buttered Soul, Maze live, TSOP 4 record box set,3D 12" The Heaven I Need.
The women doesn't seem much better than mass murderers George Bush & Tony Blair at the moment.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

Stevie - I feel for you. My condolences. I have empathy for you. That's what happened to me. You will never get over the grief of your albums.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:24 pm:

Stevie...You can find the Three Degrees stuff on CD now....What did you think of that interview I talked about previously

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 08:09 am:

Thanks SisDetroit, sorry to hear of your loss.
Mark, I saw that TV Girl Groups show, it was very interesting. Sheila was under less pressure to work than the other girls because she married this stinking rich English guy and wanted to spend more time with her children. Ms Ferguson made statements about the group looking & sounding dated in their last few years. I think this is true. "The Heaven I Need" single was played in the nightclubs and showed the potential for the Three Degrees to reinvent themselves - I remember the soul radio station was describing the
record originally as by a new group called 3D! Unfortunately, the record companies seemed to loose interest in the group once the divisions amongst the girls started to come to the surface.
Sheila also made a statement about the groups connection with Prince Charles was mutually beneficial, how this gave him a more hip image & helped the Three Degrees gain publicity. The TV show suggested there may have been a sexual relationship between Sheila & Prince Charles - I think this very unlikely. I certainly hope there was'nt, Charlie the parasite is a racist. I can't imagine Camilla hanging around if he had another woman, A BLACK WOMAN!
It could'nt have been too much of a hardship for him to have danced with Sheila and followed the Degrees all over the UK for a couple of years though.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 09:31 am:

Well the interview I am speaking of did not interview Sheila. Only Valerie, Helen, Cynthia, and Richard Barrett. I do agree it was time for reinvention in 1985. The song did kinda bring them back as they did heavily promote it. Now I must ask you to clarify. As far as the Prince Charles connection it was definitely mutually beneficial. But you said Charlie was a racist. THe way you stated that you can't imagine Camilla hanging around if he had another woman, A BLACK WOMAN...doesn't sit to well with me. Its as if you are saying Sheila would not have been good enough for him or he could not possibly be physically attracted or like her in some romantic way. Are you racist?

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:54 pm:

Mark,
The Sheila Ferguson comments were made in seperate interviews in recent years, I know she declined to appear on the Top 10 Girl Groups programme.
I am not a racist, but I am an anti-racist. I am saying Sheila would be much too good for Prince Charles, it is the royal family who would not be happy with someone from a black working class background.
The Royal Family are a racist institution which us unfortunate Brits payout billions for every year. No commoner, white or black, has ever married into the royal family. Their aristocratic scrounging is supposed to be justified by it being the natural order of things that some are born with obscene amounts of money, whilst the majority of people struggle to pay their bills.
The Queen Mother referred to black people as nig-nogs or blackamoors. Prince Phillip is infamous for making racist statements. Prince Charles is not a bad guy in comparison to some of these inbreds, Sheila Ferguson seems to like him, but he still makes statements like the one in 2002 about "the countryside being treated worse than ethnic minorities and gays by the PC dictatorship in Westminster". The Countryside receives £7 billion in subsidies each year, Ethnic Minorities £1 billion and gays nothing.
Admittedly I don't know alot about Camilla, but I think it's a safe bet she would not want to share Charles with an american singer - he had been having an affair with Camilla for many years. (I think the Three Degrees may have been the only Americans invited to the Diana wedding).
I'm sure you could find plenty of white men at Three Degrees concerts (maybe even Prince Charles) who had fantasies about those girls - which is good, but a bigot family would be bad news for Sheila Ferguson, trust me on this.
Forward to the Republic.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

Steve...Thanks for clarifying. I did not know where you were coming from with that statement. You will definitely find white men at their shows as they always perform in Europe. I may be one out a thousand who would have fantasies about them if you know what I mean. They had and still have a huge gay following. Sheila would be too good for Charlie.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 07:41 am:

Mark,
Yes the trio have often appeared in my dreams over the years!
The other subject Girl Group Top 10 covered was the Degrees relationship with Richard Barrett. I remember there was a two week long Sunday paper interview with Sheila Ferguson in the 1980's where she admitted that she was terrified of her former lover, and was so depressed at one time during the relationship she tried to commit suicide. At the time she was pictured in a London Hospital and claimed it was an accidental drug overdose.
The fact that the Three Degrees were prevented from using their own name despite the years of paying their dues to the music industry, shows how the companies just use artists as a money making machine. Richard Barrett was more than likely right when he stated he did not get what monies was due to him from Gamble & Huff.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 08:35 am:

Steve ....Well I just wish they could perform here in the States under the name now and that is all I will say on that note. I did hear them on the Top Ten Girl Groups special mention Sheila taking pills and alcohol and them having to pump her stomach. Val and Helen stated that with them being a group they were dragged into issues Sheila had with management. Which they did not like. It was a tight ship.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 10:03 am:

Steve....What else did Sheila say in the press about Val and Helen and leaving in those final moments between 85 and 86?

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 11:42 am:

Mark,
There was an interesting article in the black newspaper the voice in July 1999 when she was appearing in the all black musical 'Soul Train'.
It said she split from the group to stay at home with her kids. She'd enough of touring abroad and also felt, after 20 years that the group had lost its fizz. The girls friendhip had begun to fade, to the extent that they travelled to concerts in seperate limousines. She said she wanted them to be a black punk girl group but this was a non-starter because of objections from the other two girls (that's a shame, it would have been interesting to see how that turned out!).
She talked about how much fun it was working in an all-black cast musical. "Ive lived in a white world so long and we have an expression in America which says you can go to Reno & Taho but you'll always wind up back in the ghetto".
Mayo Angelou and Tony Morrison are Sheila's heriones.
Once an actress came upto her and said these kids in this picture she saw were the most beautiful nig-nogs I have ever seen. Sheila recalls replying "How would you like to be called White Trash?" She said that if they try to pass it off as ignorance, then it's her job to teach them

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 07:14 pm:

Steve....It is a lot of reasons why Helen, Valerie, and Sheila are not working together. Only the three of them will know the real issues they had. I wish today that they could work through them and reunite but going by all the interviews up till now from both sides it seems like they they are all more maturer and set in there ways. So therefore reuniting is not a question or option. Sheila even added that question to her website in the FAQ section. I think that girl groups documentary was the only time Helen and Valerie wanted to discuss Sheila or their past with management. From what I have seen in other articles they try to avoid those topics...What do you think?

By BG (12.236.228.226) on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 08:31 pm:

Hey Richard, whats happening? I see you are still creating a stir (-: lol. How have you been? this is Bill Greene. Glad to know that you are well. And Weldon Mcdougal how are you also? some intresting stuff on this site and I'm going to stay away from all of it.lol You guys take care and God Bless. If you guys are interested my email address is bgreene47@hotmail.com would love to hear from you.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 04:56 am:

Mark,
Yes, the bad feeling between the girls may have waned if they had recording success since the split, but neither Sheila nor the 3 Degrees have had real success with records since mid 80's.
Here's a brain teaser question - In 1964 Sheila Ferguson was lead singer of four pretty young girls called The Royalettes. They had a record released called "No Big Thing" with Chancellor label. An archive thread said the Royalettes was Sheila Ross- Is this another name for Sheila Ferguson? Was their another Sheila? Or is someone's memory just playing tricks?

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:56 am:

Steve...I read Sheila's bio on her site and she did not sing with the Royalettes. She actually sang in a group in Philly called the Kittens with surprisingly Helen's older sister. So that shows that Sheila and Helen go back to when they were teenagers and grew up in the same neighborhood. THey obviously new each other before Helen joined The Three Degrees in the 1960's on Swan and Sheila was a solo act on Swan and managed by Mr. Barrett. I don't know who introduced whom to whom as Sheila said on her site she introduced Helen to him but it may be vice versa. Helen sang their 1st rerecording of Maybe on the Swan years...

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:17 am:

Mark, thanks for the info, I got the story from 'The Three Degrees - Sound Of Success', (Official International News Circle 1982)

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:21 am:

You still have those old news articles...Can you make copies?

By bigdaddyg2k4 (208.218.15.7) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 04:14 pm:

This has been a very interesting and insightful discussion about The Three Degrees and their former manager Richard Barrett about the trio's illustrious 40-year carrer, and it's wonderful to know that they are still together and performing. The comments posted by Richard Barrett and his wife were quite personal and to the point as I scrolled throughout the page even though it was dated four months ago, and the words he had for Bobby were very personal as he was in attack mode in claims and allegations against him. I hope for all of us grown folks we all strive to do the best we can to treat each other with respect and let bygones be bygones. KevGO, you seem to be a well-educated and professional individual and I hope to have a chance to speak to you soon as you have a healthy knowledge (as well as Bobby, of course) in the history of music as I would love to learn more about it to broaden my musical horizions. I LOVE THIS WEBISTE, AND BEEN A FAN SINCE FINDING IT LAST MONTH!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

Bgd...It is an interesting story that no one new of after 40 years...And all that stuff between the group and management was withing the first 18 years...

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:31 pm:

I did have a massive number of articles at one time. Unfortunately I made the mistake of being untidy and getting married. I feel getting married was the biggest mistake. My ex has recently thrown away many of my music & socialist books, magazines & scrap books.
I will have to dig through what I managed to save,
I may be able to photocopy some stuff.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

Eli....What was it like recording The Three Degrees version of "Together". Did you like that version. I think it is a pretty record. Only reason I ask is cause you said you wanted to rerecord it with Barbara Mason but The Three Degrees did a nice version of it. They actually do it in a their stage show now in a medley. THey pay tribute to the Philly Sound and their fellow Philadelphians..

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 01:04 pm:

Steve...Let me know when you dig thru what you have..

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 09:58 am:

Eli....What was it like recording The Three Degrees version of "Together". Did you like that version. I think it is a pretty record. Only reason I ask is cause you said you wanted to rerecord it with Barbara Mason but The Three Degrees did a nice version of it. They actually do it in a their stage show now in a medley. THey pay tribute to the Philly Sound and their fellow Philadelphians..

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:37 am:

Eli....What was it like recording The Three Degrees version of "Together". Did you like that version. I think it is a pretty record. Only reason I ask is cause you said you wanted to rerecord it with Barbara Mason but The Three Degrees did a nice version of it. They actually do it in a their stage show now in a medley. THey pay tribute to the Philly Sound and their fellow Philadelphians..

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 07:20 am:

I saw Sheila Ferguson yesterday in the musical "Thoroughly Modern Millie". I thought she was the best bit of the show, although she only had one solo song 'Only In New York'. Overall the show was dissappointing. It was set in a 1920's Jazz scene, but has no real story, though there are some funny lines and spectacular dances.
Sheila's Soul Train was much more entertaining.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 09:13 am:

Stevie...If you go to Sheila's site you can read her diaries about her rehersals

By E (151.197.6.26) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 11:15 am:

Mark,
Working with the girls has always been great on any record.

Also, the reason I had mentioned Barbara Mason was /is because of the characteristics and nuances of Barbara's voice and (imo) the similar "just about making the note" style that Barbara and Sonyn Brown of the Intruders posesed.
Now if KG only would lend me that master......

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 01:11 am:

Eli...I like the girls version of Together. The harmony is real tight and the arrangement is nice. Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia do it in there Philly Medley Tribute. There medley consists of The Love I Lost, Ain't No Stoppin Us Now, If You DOn't Know Me By Now, Together, Disco Inferno, Love Train, and TSOP. Helen sings the lead on Together now. They do it just like their recording. You should try and work with them now. You said you liked them on the PBS special

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:46 pm:

Eli...Would you work with them now?

By E (151.197.208.23) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

Absolutely so, especially if there were a reunion of the original group.

By DrewJ (195.93.34.12) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 07:44 am:

I met Shiela when she was in a musical about Edward and Mrs Simpon in the West End of London. She had the solo in a big number set at a Parisien club as the night club singer and gave a great perfomance. The show also included Shani Wallace (remember her as Nancy in the musical film Oliver?) and a friend of mine was in the chorus. I met her back stage and she signed my copy of the Swan sessions CD and also her current at the time solo remake single of 'When will I see you again' She was a very charming and interesting lady to meet.

Drew

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 10:01 am:

Eli....You mean if Sheila, Val, and Faye were reunited cause technically they are not the original line-up. You would not work with the current line-up?

By E (141.151.13.206) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 10:03 am:

Thats not what I meant.
I implied that it would be nice if it were to happen.

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 11:38 am:

I doubt that would ever happen. I wish Sheila would rejoin Helen and Val. But that wouldn't happen either. From what I was told from sources Faye only speaks to Helen cause they were the group in the Swan years. Faye does not speak to Val or Sheila. Helen was shocked when she got the call to return and did not pass it up in 1976.

But would you reach out to Valerie, Helen, and Cynthia. I think they could use a new CD.

By E (141.151.13.206) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

Absolutely!! No Question!!

By mark (152.163.253.70) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 01:25 pm:

Well if you go to their website www.thethreedegrees.com you may be able to hear soundfiles of them now.

By Rod (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:58 am:

Did Faye get fired from the Three Degrees? What really happened?

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

The most dramatic & revealing article I read on the group was a Sunday paper article which ran over two weeks - an interview with Sheila Ferguson in March 1985. The first part of the scoop concentrated on the relationship between Richard Barrett & The Three Degrees, and the rocky love affair between RB and Sheila. It had strong echoes of the Tina Turner storey "What's love got to do with it?".
The article said that Richard would have a favourite Degree at different times & would play the girls off against each other. He would put it to them that they could always be replaced by other girls if they did'nt do as they were told. He would secretly tape 3 Degrees conversations.
Sheila said Mr Barrett was a Jekyll & Hyde type character. She loved him, but also hated him. He could be really charming or very frightening. He abused her, at times using violence. He drunk heavily, but if he knocked her around he would be careful not to bruise her - so she could go on stage and sing. On one occasion he fired a gun in their house, and Sheila ran naked to the next door neighbour. She once tried to take her life and said she found he had relationships with alot of women. She only left him after secretly taking Taekwondo lessons to learn how to defend herself.
It seems like there was a lot of problems behind the scenes, and the Three Degrees style, polish & stage pressence came at a price.

By Vonnie (205.188.209.141) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 02:25 pm:

Stevie,

What newspaper ran the 3Degrees article?

Vonnie

By Fayettes solo recording (67.217.109.2) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 04:25 pm:

Does anyone have Fayettes solo recording "One Degree"? Someone taped it for me. It's "ok". "Leave a Light in The Window" is a nice song. The rest of the material is so-so. She had a pleasant voice. Wonder what she's up to these days?

By stephanie (68.50.216.20) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 04:48 pm:

Oh my god!!! This makes the Supremes look like an elementary school story. I WISH Mr Barrett would tell his side of the story...I STILL respect him though for what he has done in the music industry...I hope that Sheila and Richard do well with their respective careers and The Grouping of the Three Degrees,,
Stephanie

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 01:08 am:

Steph....The Three Degrees story is a deep one. But I think you wishing them well is a good thing as far as saying you hope they do well. I do not know about Mr Barrett but Sheila has been doing musicals and what you call "The Grouping of the Three Degrees" meaning Helen Scott, Valerie Holiday, and Cynthia Garrison. Legally in the U.S they are not The Three Degrees do to the court case but ethically they are in every way. Helen and Valerie have been with the group since the 60's. Valerie joined in 1967 and has been there since. Helen joined the first time in 1963 and is damn near an original and rejoined the group with Sheila and Valerie to replace Fayette in 1976 and has been there since. In my opinion I will say that they are still The Three Degrees and even though as stated my Mr. Barrett in a post previously made in this forum that he has had nothing to do with them in 1981, his teachings are still in effect. Just as he made Sheila, Valerie, Fayette, and Helen feel that they did not have a permanent place and that if they don't keep up with the work then they are out. Basically that is saying that one monkey won't stop the show and just cause Sheila left Helen and Valerie doesn't mean that they have to stop. It was still two thirds of the group so they were complete with Cynthia. So therefore I am saying all that to say that ethically they are still the group "The Three Degrees" and just cause Faye was gone and Helen came in, it was not over. Just cause they fired Mr. Barrett, it was not over, Just cause Sheila left, it was not over. There is still work out there and to be done.


Rod...As far as your question to Faye being fired. I cannot confirm that but have heard a rumor about that being the truth.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 07:15 am:

Vonnie,
The article was a two part interview of Sheila in the sex & gossip comic The Sunday People.

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 10:04 am:

Stevie...Did the article talk about her leaving the group and her falling out with Valerie and Helen.

By Rod (205.188.209.141) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 02:16 pm:

Thanks Mark. That's the only thing I could come up with for her not to speak to Val & Sheila. As I've learned through this forum, there was alot going on in the 3Degree camp.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 11:17 pm:

Rod: It was a lot going on. All the girls have been thru a lot. It is a shame what they went thru in their career internally. But from what I read on other e-mail lists I hear that Val and Helen were very down to earth at the PBS special. There were several people who stated that they met them and that they were very humble. I think to have been thru all they have been thru that it is very commendable.

By rod (205.188.209.141) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 09:19 pm:

Amen to that Mark. I've alway wondered what type of person Faye was. She always seem very pleaseant to from the Live recording and pictures I've seen.

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 09:37 pm:

Rod...I knew people who knew all the girls and that is where I get my info. They say Faye is the most pleasant person. At times she can talk there ears off. As I said the only one she speaks to and loves is Helen because they started in the the group together in the 60's along with Janet Harmon. She does not speak to anyone else.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 05:22 am:

Mark,
there was no detail on Sheila's relationship with the other girls but she hung on as a member of the group until a year after the Sunday People interview.
It must have been very emotional when she did leave the group - I read a quote from her a few years ago saying that she could'nt listen to Three Degrees records for ten years after the split.
This may have harmed her career if true, because the British media always marketed her as "Prince Charle's favourite Degree.
I suspect that the main reason she had no success as a solo artist was the sexism of the music industry. Record Companies don't like to hear you need to spend more time with your children.

By mark (152.163.253.70) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 09:24 am:

Stevie...Well Sheila's relationship did deteriorate which is evident with the other girls. Faye, Helen, and Val. You should have seen the girl groups documentary I saw from UK tv a few years ago that I discussed in some posts before in this forum. I do not think her kids were the issue. I think that was a cover up for the media.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 01:36 pm:

Mark,
You might be right about seeing her kids more being an excuse, but I saw the documentary and I think it showed Val & Helen bitter about the way she left, they had more financial pressures than her.
What do you think the issue was then? Where does Faye come in on the disputes with Sheila?
Even if she did'nt feel the need to do so much work I think it is a scandal that someone as talented as Sheila Ferguson has not received support from a record company. I'm sure she could and would have had hit records after she left the group if promoted properly. Black music as a whole is treated as very disposable in comparison to "White" rock music.

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 03:20 pm:

Steve I do not think Val and Helen were bitter. I think they finally cut the bullshit and told the truth about the group and there whole career.I don't know where Faye falls into the picture of Sheila leaving. Faye was not even thought of nor was she thinking of them after she left. What ever Val and Helen stated was the truth and the issue. I believe that was the whole point of that documentary.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:42 am:

Mark,
I could read between the lines & tell there were divisions before they actually split. When I read about Richard Barrett being prepared to foster divisions & the fact that him and Sheila had a relationship for many years it did suggest there would be friction.
All the girls will have their own versions of the problems, but we will probably never know all the truth.
For instance, nobody has given any reason why Fayette was sacked, (or decided to leave the group).

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:15 am:

It was definitely friction at times cause in that documentary Val said that they had no choice but to be dragged into Sheila's romantic disputes with Mr. B. Helen said that she was in love with him at a very young age sometimes after the chase it isn't so pretty anymore. But if it were not for that relationship we would not have their hit "The Runner" cause that song was based on that...

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:24 am:

I did not mean Helen was in love with Mr. B...Helen said Sheila was in love with him. I did not want to screw up that statement

By bumps (195.93.34.12) on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

A CD of Three Degrees Swan Years plus more is being planned here in the UK. If anyone has any memories of the sessions or tours in those days who would like to contribute, please get in touch. We are in touch with most of the girls, sorry women :-), and they are contributing but other photos and memories would be very welcome.

By Gino Monsieur (80.200.248.206) on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 08:21 pm:

i live in belgium and found this very interesting forum.
i'm 43 years and a fan of the ladies, let me think, only 30 years.
what do we have luck to still have them around. valerie, helen & cindy are a fantastic combination of voices. i have had the opportunity to hear/see them several times (the last one, this summer), always live. tv-shows in belgium, the netherlands, germany and the uk, to name a few countries. the magic continues... i also follow sheila, an unbelievable woman, beautiful, strong voice. i love here. who not ! all these women deserve a lot more appreciation from the music industry.
i will always love them; the past, now and the future.
people, keep the magic alive !

By CEASAR THE TYMES (141.151.72.19) on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

TO ALL:
AS FAR AS RICHARD BARRET IS CONCERNED,YOU HAVE TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.HE HAD TO BE THE WAY HE WAS TO KEEP THE VULTURES AWAY FROM THOSE LADIES.THERE WAS ONE OTHER THAT I KNOW.
PATTY LABELLE&THE BLUE BELLES HAD A MANAGER NAMED MR. MONIQUE.HE WAS A R.B. TYPE.I TIP MY HAT TO THESE GENTELMAN.
BELIEVE ME NONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE REACHED THE TOP LIKE THEY DID IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE GUIDENCE OF THESE MEN.
I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT I KNOW THEM BOTH.
SO THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW,STEP BACK.
CEASAR

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 07:08 am:

I have no doubt the talent of Mr Barrett has had a significant effect in the music world, and to get to the top in a very competitive business has ussually meant someone being very ruthless.
The dog eat dog nature of the industry does screw people up, but this cannot mean that we ignore unacceptable things that people do.
Violence against women is unacceptable, as is bullying and tapeing private conversations for that matter.
The Three Degrees are a unique group, but as I said before, they have got to where they are today at a price.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 10:19 pm:

Stevie...it was a deep price...

Bumps....Tell us more on the Swan project. What girls are you in touch with as Helen and Fayette are the only ones who were in the group at that time and are still alive. I here Janet Harmon recently passed away. This would be the 3rd compilation of the Swan material.

By Cowboy (68.236.16.144) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:50 am:

This is Kenny Kirby, former keyboard player w/ The Three Degrees 89'-92'& I am looking for any U.K. live video footage as well as Spain & Japan from that period.I recently spoke to Helen-Scott & she is well & happy living in Maryland. Good to see my friend Bobby Eli(who I was recently with at The Kimmel Center) putting in his 2 cents worth, because he is an authority on the Philly Sound...Bobby I have some pictures I'm sending you soon.I am currently conducting for THE TYMES(new website coming)
if anyone is interested...You can visit me at:
www.geocities.com/kennykirby2000
I enjoy this open forum & let me know if anyone has video footage out there...Peace,Kenny

By Cowboy (68.236.52.100) on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 02:22 am:

Former Keyboard Player w/ The Three Degrees (89'-92')looking for any video footage from those years (UK, Japan & Spain)
Website: www.geocities.com/kennykirby2000

By DrewJ (195.93.34.12) on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 07:44 am:

Sheila is currently appearing in Thoroughly Modern Millie at the Shaftsbury Theatre in Shaftsbury Avenue London. (Just in case anyone is interested!)

Drew

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 09:04 pm:

Mr. Kirby...What can you tell us about your touring with The Three Degrees in depth...What each lady was like and your experiences with them and what songs were in the stage show at that time?

By Cowboy (68.236.62.16) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 07:59 am:

Mark,my touring experience w/ them was always very pleasant...They were well managed by the late Chuck Smiley & were always organized w/ every detail covered.We always were well rehearsed before each tour & were well compensated & taken care of on the road.Val,Helen & Victoria(replaced by Cynthia)
were perfectionists & always fun to hang out with travelling & after shows as well.As best as I can remember the show included: TSOP,Dirty Ole Man,Givin Up,Woman In Love, Gee Baby,The Runner,Tie U Up,Make It Easy on Yourself,Win-Place-Show,Lock It Up,My Perrogative,When Will I See You...How's that for a memory!
I hope this enlightened you...

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 08:40 am:

So what was it like from the transition of Victoria to Cynthia. How were Helen and Valerie personally on and off the stage? As far as the show I can tell that is when the "And Holding" album came out on Ichiban. Why did you stop touring with them?

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:06 am:

Mr. Kirby...So what was it like from the transition of Victoria to Cynthia. How were Helen and Valerie personally on and off the stage? As far as the show I can tell that is when the "And Holding" album came out on Ichiban. Why did you stop touring with them?

By Gino (217.136.57.244) on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 08:57 pm:

I always wondered what tunes are still in the closet. unreleased songs, concerts, lp's etc. Anybody knows about that ?
I thinks there's a lot of stuff that never saw the daylight...

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

Gino...I wanna see concerts with Helen, Sheila, and Valerie...Have you seen the group before?

By Gino (80.200.0.209) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 08:17 pm:

Hi mark...I didn't saw any concert with Sheila in the group. For me that's the only thing that I regret because, like I said before, I follow them since 1973.
I saw Cindy Helen en Valerie, for the firs time, in 1992, 13th july, in a discotheque after the show. We talked whole night and even danced together. That's were I finally met other people too.
I also have a 13 year old son, who's a fan of the group. He's like his dad; love's the music, the dances and the personality of the ladies. For him THESE ARE THE THREE DEGREES. So you see, you can look at things differently. He's the one, who tells about the group in school and believe me, because of him, the other kids in the school now know who this group is, what they sing. The story continues...

By MArk (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 01:45 am:

Gino: What other stories can you tell us on the group.

Mr. Kirby...So what was it like from the transition of Victoria to Cynthia. How were Helen and Valerie personally on and off the stage? As far as the show I can tell that is when the "And Holding" album came out on Ichiban. Why did you stop touring with them?

Bumps....Tell us more on the Swan project. What girls are you in touch with as Helen and Fayette are the only ones who were in the group at that time and are still alive. I here Janet Harmon recently passed away. This would be the 3rd compilation of the Swan material.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 01:34 am:

Can anyone tell me what Three Degrees remakes that have been done and by who? I can list a few

Amii Stewart-Get Your Love Back
Carol Douglas-My Simple Heart
Sheena Easton-Giving Up Giving In
Dream Girls-Year Of Decision
Ghost(who is a Reggae artist)-Woman In Love

The O'Jays, Dream Girls, Johnny Mathis, Bjork, Dionne Warwick all have recorded When Will I See You Again.

Am I forgetting any?

By CORNBREAD (66.185.84.74) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:37 am:

Ken Boothe, Rocksteady & reggae singer did an answer to "When will I see you again" called"Now you can see me again" on Wild Flower label.

By manny (80.58.52.235) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 11:17 am:

Hello, soul friends

Hey, Mark:
Many years ago (1975?) Silver Convention (Munich Sound female vocal trio) make a "eurodisco" version of "Dirty Old Man".

Peace!

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 04:21 pm:

Boyz Town Gang also did WWISYA. Manny is that recording of the Silver Convention doing "Dirty Ol Man" available on CD?

By manny (80.58.52.235) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:03 pm:

Hi, good soul friends!

Hello again, Mark

In the S.D. trhead «Where are these chart toppers?», our friend Isaiah says that he got the "Silver Convention Greatest Hits" (don't says if are on vynil or Cd). Also in the same thread, have many other comments about this group.

Also, don't well remember on wich trhead I write that I saw The Three Degrees live in spanish TV in La Escala (Barcelona) where sang all his major PIR hits and one tune in spanish: "No se lo digas a nadie (que nos queremos tú y yo)", "Don't Tell Nobody (that You and Me Are Lovers)". This was around 1977, when the line-up changed and a member are a white (?) girl.

Peace, friends

By Mark (152.163.247.76) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

Manny,

DO you have a copy of that video clip? The song is called "Somos Novios" and the line-up did change. Helen is not white. She is black. Just very light-skin. I would love to see that clip.

By Gino (217.136.58.148) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 08:01 pm:

also a song called "collage" - sung, i think two years ago, by the group "the breeders".
take care !

By Gino (217.136.58.148) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 08:09 pm:

another topic: samples.
alex gopher/cd=wuz/song=use me.
beautiful sample from "dirty ol'man". several mixes available.

By Cowboy (68.236.32.124) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:32 pm:

Mark, I am sorry it has taken so long for me to respond to your questions about The Three Degrees.The transition from Victoria to Cynthia was pretty painless except that the vocal blend changed a bit & they had to revamp their parts because Cynthia's range was a little lower.As far as their personalities they were all very nice & easy to work & travel with.They had a very strong work ethic but liked to go out after gigs & really "let their hair down" They went mainly to track shows & rarely ever used a band after 92'...Matter of fact the road band cut the background tracks they still use now I believe.It was a great time full of wonderful memories, but I had seen enough of the world by that time.Hope this answered your questions.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:50 pm:

Cowboy,

Which vocal blend did you like better and did you think it was a bad move to switch girls. How much lower exactly musically did they have to lower most of the songs if you can remember.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

Billy Bragg & Cilla Black did a version of 'When Will I See You Again' (Not together - there from totally different ends of the political spectrum)
Rod Stewart - Trade Winds
Mirrorball - Givin Up, Givin In (This was on Top Of The Pops with The Three Degrees on a giant video screen in the background)
TSOP was done by Wilson Picket as well as Dexy's Midnight Runners
Erasure also did 'When Will I See You Again' (In an interview by Andy Bell he described the Degrees as a UK version of the Supremes!)

By manny (80.58.52.235) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

Hello, soul friends!

Hi, Mark

When I see this live program was in 1977 and at this time in my home the TV was in Black & White and don't have Video-reproductor (practically nobody have it! smile! or cry?).

Anyway some televisions (as the Catalonian TV3) got a «service» for localize and send a copy of whatever the program when a particular solicite it (don't know if is the case of TVE, the national TV of Spain).

You can to reach it
http://www.rtve.es

Much after of this, around the second half of the eighties in a TVE program called "Un día es un día" ("A day is a day"), presented by one of the most serious musical critics in Spain, Angel Casas, also appears The Three Degrees (this time I recognized only Sheila Ferguson and not sure about the rest of the line-up). This time I have video-reproductor...but i saw the program in a restaurant 300 km from my town! (The Murphy Laws!)

Hope you have luck, friend and, as sang this beatiful girls "Take Good Care Of Yourself".
Long live to the Philly Sound!

By Cowboy (68.236.36.123) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 01:25 am:

Mark, they never changed the keys of the songs, just their parts... I preferred the blend w/ Victoria ala "And Holding" album...My favorite track was "After The Night Is Over" which was never performed live or released as a single...The best song they had done in years!!! Record Companies don't have a clue.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 10:49 am:

Well with Victoria I believe they all kept their original parts and of course filled in on Sheila's old notes. I do like that song from "And Holding" but I also like "Lock It Up"

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:27 pm:

U2 also did 'When Will I See You Again'.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Has anyone heard The Three Degrees Christmas CD? What are your favorite cuts? I like the remake of "Last Christmas", "It Isn't Christmas When Your Not Here" and "Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas"

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 10:19 am:

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 11:19 am:

Here are the covers of their Xmas CD \ and \

By rod (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 07:32 pm:

Faye, Val and Sheila are on the cover of my Christmas cdd

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 10:43 pm:

Rod...The company that put that together put the wrong picture on there. Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia recorded that CD and these are the pictures from the Real Christmas CD...It was recorded in 1998 and the single was a dance version of "Last Christmas"...Not the one on that CD and the song went to number 54 on the UK charts in 1998...

By ThreeDegrees Webmaster (62.254.0.32) on Sunday, December 07, 2003 - 08:06 am:

If you have pictures of The Three Degrees with Valerie,Cynthia & Helen please send them to info@thethreedegrees.com. Subject to approval from the group, they will be posted on the official www.thethreedegrees.com website.

By Don (68.75.182.227) on Sunday, December 07, 2003 - 09:45 am:

To RD and Eli, now I understand you both.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, December 07, 2003 - 10:58 am:

Don...What do you understand...I missed it..

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:46 pm:

To Rod and anyone else...What are your favorite cuts on the Christmas CD or do you like it at all?

By Gino (217.136.50.168) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 09:20 pm:

My favorite song on the Xmas CD; Gonna Give You My Heart (This Christmas).

It's a new song ? I really like all the songs. I prefer the version of 'Last Christmas' on the full CD.

My wish; a new CD release in 2004 with new recorded songs... Where are the record companiezzz ?!?

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 01:56 am:

Gino...That is my wish too but they need producers to work with...And a new sound to make them sound today....And the releases would have to be overseas in Europe and not here in the states cause Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia cannot be "The Three Degrees" in the U.S

By Julian (205.188.209.141) on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 02:07 am:

Awww man! I am just discovering this thread!

Man I love that Richard Barrett Chantels' stuff!

What tracks did he do on Frankie Lymon?

Damn, I missed Richard Barrett! Hey if you are looking at this thread Mr. Barrett I wanna say that that Chantels stuff is the best music on Earth!

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 01:38 pm:

Anyone else have like the Christmas CD

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 07:52 am:

Who has heard the 1989 Sound Of Phila Live CD with Harold Melvin and Billy Paul? Any thoughts on that one

By boynextdoor (67.24.158.165) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 09:01 am:

I have the Sound of Philly CD with the Degrees, Bluenotes and Billy Paul. Isn't Billy Paul deceased now? And Harold Melvin? Pretty good CD.

By MArk (205.188.209.141) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 09:44 am:

Harold Melvin is deceased not Billy Paul...What are you favorite cuts on that CD?

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 09:40 pm:

Check out these clips of Sheila, Helen, and Valerie performing Giving Up Giving iN and My Simple Heart on Top of The Pops from 1978 and 1979..Eli and others what do you think of these short clips..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp/artists/t/three_degrees/clips/my_simple_heart.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp/artists/t/three_degrees/clips/giving_up_giving_in.shtml

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 01:43 am:

Check out these clips of Sheila, Helen, and Valerie performing Giving Up Giving iN and My Simple Heart on Top of The Pops from 1978 and 1979..Eli and others what do you think of these short clips..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp/artists/t/three_degrees/clips/my_simple_heart.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp/artists/t/three_degrees/clips/giving_up_giving_in.shtml


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By ButILoveYouMore (152.163.253.70) on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 06:57 pm:

"Oh Magic Mirror hangin on the wall, you who've seen them rise,you you've seen them fall......
Costume jewlry but I want DIAMONDS....lots and lots and lots of diamonds!..I LOVED THAT SONG. Thanks for writing it for them Eli!.
.
Los.
NY

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 01:38 am:

But I Love You More...How did you like the extensive reading in this thread

By ButILoveYouMore (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:19 am:

Mark:
.I LOVE the fact that this forum exists! I have been trying to find out more details about The Three Degrees' careers for years. I am SO glad Mr. Barret is here too! What joy! I am a voracious reader and this is truly enlightening.
.
..Keep givin me the good, bad and ugly. Now if I could only get my hands on a copy of that Japanese LIVE cd with Fay, Val and Sheila!
.
.Los
.NYC
.Please pardon my tempramental keyboard and its extra periods. LOL!

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 09:08 pm:

It was definitely a lot of good, bad, and ugly as it is with everyones life. But as I stated before I think these ladies have a story that has been untouched and it is good that people are now in the know. I just wish the girls could perform in the states more and really still be The Three Degrees

By E (68.236.3.19) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:08 pm:

Hey Los!!
That song was one of my faves, I just wish that Roulette would have promoted it!!

It was co-written with Jimmy Grant who also co-wrote Stop to Start and formerly was Chuck Jackson's MD and bass player in the day, and his name is even mentioned on Chucks live album!!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Eli....Check out those Top Of The Pops Links a few posts before these of Val, Sheila, and Helen performing in 1978 and 1979 hits Giving Up Giving In, and My Simple Heart...What do you think?

By Dave Fleming (80.2.243.135) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 08:33 am:

Mark Here`s one for you,this 45 is one of there early
one`s from 1968,this was played on the UK Northern Soul scene in the 70s,not sure if you know it or have a copy?.

Dave f...........

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 09:52 am:

Dave...I do have a copy of that and "No No Not Again". And actually Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia rerecorded Contact a few years ago and sang it for a recent Northern Soul compilation in the UK

By Dave Fleming (80.2.243.135) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:03 am:

Hi mark, Do you mean for the Cd set called,
"The strange world of Northern Soul",i got this box set as a xmas present,i`ve been watching it over the last few day`s,all i can say it`s a must for anyone
into the music or for anyone who`s not quite sure what it`s all about,it gives the history of
Soul/Northern Soul from the 60s to the 90s.

Dave f..........

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:18 am:

Dave I believe that is it...But they actually have a video of Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia singing Contact..

By ButILoveYouMore (152.163.253.70) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:20 pm:

FAB PIC OF THE 45!

Does anyone know who wrote and how I can obtain copies of "Find My Way" and "I Wanna Be Your Baby"?

Los
NY

By ButILoveYouMore (152.163.253.70) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 02:47 pm:

I would LOVE to see a compilation release of "The Three Degrees.....The Roulette Years". They did that on vinyl many years ago but we NEED THE CD! Come on Mr. Barrett! Make some money for yourself and have them re released! YEAH BABY!

That would make a lovely gift for myself for the new year!

I would love to hear the extended version of "Maybe" with Val doin her phenomenal RAP! She originated that sound baby as far as I'm concerned. But right now I need something stronger than coffee to lean on cause I am as EVIL as a wet HEN!.

LOl
Los
NY

LOL

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 05:51 pm:

Los...The Roulette Recordings are on a CD and it was released in 1995. YOu can get it in stores or on Amazon.com It does not have the extended version of Maybe but the rap version is on there.

They do not need to rerelease another compilation of the Roulette years as it is already out and the man does get all the money.

By butiloveyoumore (152.163.253.70) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 06:05 pm:

THANK YOU MARK! I will try and get it!
..
Now, is there any truth to the rumor that Fayette was asked to replace Cindy Birdsong when she left the Supremes in 1972?
.
.Los
.NY

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

Los....I never heard that one before...Who are your sources...

By ButIloveyoumore (152.163.253.70) on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 08:41 pm:

I read that in some old "Soul Magazine" many years ago.

.Los

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 04:11 pm:

Ok but I do not know that to be true...Eli can you shead light on it

By Gino (80.201.104.85) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:13 am:

My best wishes to everybody ! With love... to you all.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:37 am:

Gino...Have you seen the girls in concert lately

By Gino (217.136.54.49) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:19 pm:

Mark... I saw them last summer at a festival here in Belgium with a big band. Without any doubt a fabulous show.
Songs they sang: Medley;Your love keeps lifting me higher/Take me higher - Year of decision - Take good care of yourself - Giving up, Giving in - I'm so excited - Dirty Ol' man - Philly Medley;The love I lost/Ain't no stoppin' us now/Together/Disco Inferno/Love Train - When will I see you again - Dance little sister.
I have some photos of it and I want to post them here but i don't know how to do it.
Normally they should be in Belgium again within a couple of days but until today I didn't found out where. Pitty...

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 12:01 am:

Try and get the photos on here Gino..That seems like a nice show line up too

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 01:21 am:

Gino....Were they in Belgium yet?

By Gino (80.200.211.200) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:54 pm:

Mark...I'm not sure. Normally, yes, but I couldn't find out where. Probably not something public.

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 07:07 pm:

I wish The Three Degrees were on the PBS special this year with Patti Labelle. They are the Queens of Philly Soul

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:50 pm:

Hi Guys
Well I have been a "fan" and now a friend of the girls for too many years too mention and they are a very pollished proffesional group putting 110% into their act, but these days there are not many theatres left in the UK for live entertainment, unless you are a huge rock band or act who can fill a concert hall, so they do small venues,night clubs and bingo halls!!!!!!! its where the people are and Valerie said to me once " you have to go where the people are".
You can check out what they are doing at http://www.thethreedegrees.com the tour date section will give you an idea of where they are, but does not always give a full tour inventory, and as for sheila at the moment is in "Thoroughly Modern Millie" as Muzzy, and you can find out more from http://www.sheilaferguson.com.

Now to dispell some rhumours
1.Sheila WAS NEVER married to R.B, yes she did have a realationship with him and the song "The Runner" and "Liar" were about him.
2.Helen & Valerie DO still keep in contact with Fayette.
3.Fayette left the group because she fell in love with Al Green and was told "him or the group", Fay chose him so left the Degrees.
3.Helen has spoken to Sheila, but Val is still upset about her leaving.
4.Helen has tried to smoothe things over with R.B, but he aint having nothing to do with it, and yes he formed his own "Three Degrees".
5.A judge in the US has awarded R.B the name The Three Degrees so that the current line up CAN NOT USE the name in the US or Monaco!. They were going to use "Just 3" (formally the original 3 Degrees), but can not even do that in the US.

The girls are still very busy touring (mostly the UK, Europe and Japan) and if you can catch them live you should do so, as I have seen them many times in various line-ups, and they are fantastic.
I also have many clips of them on video and enough Cd's to open a record shop (well maybe not that many).

So guys I hope this helps, and its been interesting reading your comments.

Regards
DegreeOfLove :-)

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 12:32 am:

Hi Guys
How do you put up pix on here????

By CORNBREAD (66.185.84.74) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 12:37 am:

Hey DegreeOfLove: How long did Fayette and Al Green go together. Was she involved in that hot grits mess?

I wonder if the girls came across Richard Barrett struggling to save himself from drowning in a river would they throw him a life preserver or pour some more water on him?

By MArk (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 03:25 am:

Wow...DegreeofLove knows a lot. I knew some of those points you made? What happened when Helen tried to smooth things over with management? Can you elaborate more on that and as well as Fay keeping in contact with Helen and Val. I heard from someone that she only speaks to Helen and she did not speak to Val and Sheila in maybe 15 to 20 years...When did Helen and Sheila speak?

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 07:59 am:

Hi Guys
Ok Sheila and Helen have seen each other reciently,but not under good circumstances,as Sheila and Helen both lost their fathers within days of each other, so Helen went to Sheila fathers service, but Sheila did not go to the service of Helens father.

And before that Helen,Val and Cindy were at a charity event at the same time as Sheila, and they did talk.

As for Fay and Al I have no idea how long they were involved as I do not know the lady that well.

Also after Victoria Wallace left the group she was for a short time in RB's Three Degrees group,and has been in an "extra" in Sister Sledge.

Have A Good One!

Regards
DegreeOfLove.

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 08:02 am:

P.S
Can someone tell me how to put a picture on here :-)

Regards
DegreeOfLove.

By Ralph (209.240.205.62) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:10 am:

DOL,
Look to the left of the thread topics and click on to " Getting Fancy ".

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 12:55 pm:

Degree...You missed these questions...What happened when Helen tried to smooth things over with management? Can you elaborate more on that and as well as Fay keeping in contact with Helen and Val as I heard she did not care for Val and Sheila? When exactly did the charity event take place? Do you know how Sheila's mood was toward Helen, Val, and Cindy and vice versa?

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 03:19 pm:

A recient pic of the girls

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 03:25 pm:

Try again LOL

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 03:47 pm:

Hi Mark
Even I dont know the full ins and outs of everything, also I know that when Sheila left Val phoned Fay to ask if she knew any singers.

Regards
DegreeOfLove.

By Soulaholic (68.41.40.105) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 03:58 pm:

Still looking Sexy, just like they have always sounded!!

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 03:59 pm:

Hi Mark
Even I dont know the full ins and outs of how they really feel towards each other, I know that when Sheila left Val phoned Fay to see if she knew any singers.

The charity event I dont know as they do so many corparate events.

Helen had a meeting with RB to try to resolve the "Feud", but RB will not put aside his differences.

Regards
DegreeOfLove.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 06:02 pm:

DOL..Thanks for the info...You definitely shed light on situations not previously mentioned...

By Rod (205.188.209.141) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 01:13 pm:

Thanks for the info Degree of Love. Why didn't Fay come back when Val was looking for a singer?

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 01:40 pm:

Rod....When Sheila left Val and Helen...DOL mentioned instead of Val asking Fay to comeback she said can you refer anyone to us...

By rod (205.188.209.141) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:24 pm:

Hey Mark, I got it. If Richard was not apart of their organization, they should have asked her back.

By LadyMystique (205.238.208.92) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:41 pm:

Sorry...I missed this thread! I am a fan of the Three Degrees, but my older brother is a bigger fan! His eyes were always glued to the television whenever they were on!

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:45 pm:

Rod..Sheila, Helen and Valerie fired RB in 1981. Sheila left the group in 1986. So they were already finished with RB. He had nothing to do with Val and Helen's decision on finding a replacement for Sheila. Val was kinda spiting Fay and asking her to refer anyone instead of saying Fayette comeback to the group...

By respect full fan (62.254.0.32) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 03:45 pm:

there was no contact between val and fay after sheila abruptley left six weeks before a tour,which had to be canceled and re-sheduled when hellen and val found someone to quicley step in to the vacant spot.I do thik that Hellenand Val have worked exteamly hard to give us The Three Degrees today! and i hope that some day we will apreciate that this is the Longest runnig line up of The Three Degrees long may they tour.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 06:45 pm:

Respect Full Fan...There may not have been contact between val and fay then but what DOL is saying is that there was contact probably after that. THe person who stood in according to the www.thethreedegrees.com was Vera Brown and she was short lived. Rhea Harris was there in 1988 so in between that time is when the contact probably happened.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 06:45 pm:

Respect Full Fan...There may not have been contact between val and fay then but what DOL is saying is that there was contact probably after that. THe person who stood in according to the www.thethreedegrees.com was Vera Brown and she was short lived. Rhea Harris was there in 1988 so in between that time is when the contact probably happened.

By Jayjay (217.42.10.26) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 12:02 pm:

wow...someone just brought this website to my attention and its been a pleasure reading all the threads here! I have been a fan and friend of all these wonderful ladies for nearly 30 yrs, ever since they came over to the UK in 1974. Some of you may know who I am and if you do, then hello to you! To those of you know dont know me, its good meeting you and i will try to help out with any information you may want and need on this outstanding group. I have a collection of articles, pictures and memories that may interest some of you...unlike some of you, i never ever got rid of or lost all my scrap books! Anyone who goes near them dies!!! One thing though..i wont ever dis anyone involved with this amazing collection of people...ever since i was a kid i have been treated really well by the ladies and also by Mr Barrett...it was he who first allowed us to meet the girls in the first place and i am eternally grateful to him for that! As far as Sheila, Valerie, Fayette, Helen, Rhea, Vicky and Cynthia go...they are all lovely and have always treated us with dignity and respect..i love them all and look forward to chatting with any of you about them. Girls, if you're reading any of this...guess who this is! xxxx

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 01:38 pm:

Jay Jay...Shed light on this forum

By jayjay (217.42.10.26) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 02:06 pm:

i'll do my best mate...where u from and what do u need to know? jj x

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 02:20 pm:

These were rumors mentioned by Degree Of Now to dispell some rhumours
1.Sheila WAS NEVER married to R.B, yes she did have a realationship with him and the song "The Runner" and "Liar" were about him.
2.Helen & Valerie DO still keep in contact with Fayette.
3.Fayette left the group because she fell in love with Al Green and was told "him or the group", Fay chose him so left the Degrees.
3.Helen has spoken to Sheila, but Val is still upset about her leaving.
4.Helen has tried to smoothe things over with R.B, but he aint having nothing to do with it, and yes he formed his own "Three Degrees".
5.A judge in the US has awarded R.B the name The Three Degrees so that the current line up CAN NOT USE the name in the US or Monaco!. They were going to use "Just 3" (formally the original 3 Degrees), but can not even do that in the US.

What light can you shed on these points...I am from chicago

By jayjay (217.42.10.26) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 03:05 pm:

hey mate...london uk here!

well..like i said, i dont wanna dis anyone and one thing that i have always done is kept out of the politics...it was always the music and the friendship for me. i don't really know what went on behind the scenes...sure there were rumours and stuff like that but these ladies like to keep that stuff away from people like you and me. Its amazing that after all these years theres still so much interest in what went on. Sheila was never married to Richard...thats common knowledge but as for the rest..well..who knows what goes on behind closed doors eh? its also common knowledge that the name The Three Degrees cant be used by the current group in the US...the whys and wherefores i dont know anything about. As for who speaks to who and when..well...i guess thats like all of us when we fall out with mates...it takes time to heal wounds..sometimes a very long time..thats human nature! As for my darling Fayette, shes still an absolute dream and a total lady. Why she left noone really knows..it was sad when it happened, Helen rejoined and alot of us at the time kept in touch with the group and her. I still have contact with her and i love her very much...i love them all cos they have been in my life for a very long time.

Sorry I cant help you more...its just not for me to get involved in that kind of thing..so lets talk about music, concerts and the like...cos thats what these lovely ladies would want!

jj xx

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 06:25 pm:

True...What are your most memorable concerts with Valerie, Helen, and Sheila...

By jayjay (81.152.90.231) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:04 am:

There have been so many its difficult to say...remember i have been seeing these ladies since 1974! I think the most memorable and awe inspiring was the very first one i went to...can you imagine how a 14 year old kid felt seeing his favourite group live for the first time! It was similar to the first "Live" album but with so much more..in fact if you roll the two "Live" albums together thats very much it, except there was a "Charlie Chaplin" tribute...also donewith Helen a few years later and a dance routine to "Shaft" !! Lots of costume changes too! Most of those costumes are in lots of photos from those days, especially in the Calendar that came from the "Live in Japan" set. It was a great night and it was after that when we met them for the first time...it was awesome! Good memories!
It was nearly 30 years ago but i still get tingling down my spine when i think of it! I guess I am still hooked!

jj xx

By jayjay (81.152.90.231) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:07 am:

just to add...

that concert was with Fayette, Valerie and Sheila...the first successful Original line-up! How do you post pictures here..i have so many on my computer I am sure you would like to see some!

jj xx

By Ralph Terrana (ralph) (209.240.205.62) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:44 am:

JJ,
Welcome to the forum. To post pics see the side-bar menu where it says " Get Fancy " and click on to that for instructions. We're anxious to see what you have.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 02:17 pm:

JJ....What concerts from the late 70's and 80's do you remember. I know the first was always memorable....But what comes to mind when you think of the Ariola years and stuff...Just write what you feel and remember...

By jayjay (217.42.87.14) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 06:39 pm:

wow...theres alot...i remember a concert at a club in Luton called Caesars Palace which was awesome...this was in 1978 and the Ladies were excellent...this was just before the Ariola era and they hadnt had a hit record for quite some time but the place was packed...it proved that they were still so popular and didnt need records to entertain....which is the same today!

jj xx

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 11:57 am:

How long has it been since you have seen them now in concert?

By Rod (205.188.209.141) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 10:57 pm:

The Three Degrees will be part of the Disco Tour in Europe in the month of October. I got the info from The Emotions website who is also on the tour

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:54 am:

They are also part of a Holland Disco show if you check out this site.http://www.hetdiscofeest.nl/ This show features Jaki Graham, Bonnie Pointer, The Waether Girls, and The Three Degrees.

By sten (80.201.96.99) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 01:00 pm:

totp2

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:00 pm:

Sten...what about top of the pops 2?

By Nosey (205.188.209.141) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 10:18 pm:

I just re-read an article from last year on Eddie Holman in the "In the Basement" magazine where he says in met his future wife, Sheila of the original Three Degrees on January 1, 1966. Which Sheila is this? S'plain please. btw they are still married.

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 12:51 am:

I have heard that too but it is not Sheila Ferguson. In the 60's Helen, Fayette and Janet Harmon were the group. After Helen left Sheila took her place. Well when Janet left Mr. Barrett had a few temps in before Valerie joined in 1967 and this woman whom Eddie Holman is talking about was a temp..

By jayjay (81.152.237.165) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 03:18 pm:

it certainly wasnt our Sheila! She was married for many years to Chris Robinson, a businessman from Jersey...not an English Aristocrat as some people think! I met him a few times and he was a nice, quiet chap. Unfortunately they divorced not so long ago. Sheila is still going great guns in "Millie"...all news about her is very well documented in her excellent website! The last concert i saw the Girls in was in Belgium a couple of years ago..sorry for the delay in replying!

By jayjay (81.152.233.200) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:31 pm:

still cant work out how to post pics here..i am such a technophobe! help someone!!!! jj x

By jayjay (81.152.233.200) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:33 pm:

oh yeah...btw...theres a new link on www.thethreedegrees.com all about Fayette! its under the FAQ section..go check it out!

By Nosey (66.153.113.238) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:59 pm:

I didn't see any link? What am I doing wrong?

By MArk (205.188.209.141) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 01:25 pm:

I did not see the link either...When was it supposed to be updated?

By jayjay (81.152.233.200) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 03:58 pm:

if you lads go to the FAQ section of the website, theres now a link for what faye is doing now..go look again! jj xx

By DegreeOfLove (62.254.0.32) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 07:01 pm:

I can not see any link, you winding us up jayjay?????????

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 07:54 pm:

DOL...I agree...I don't see one either...

By The Three Degrees Webmaster (62.254.0.32) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 12:03 pm:

Hello all
The webpage page about Fayette is now available on the Official Three Degrees Website at www.thethreedegrees.com
Thanks

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 01:16 pm:

Under what section and how many times do I have to reload....

By roger (217.35.87.17) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 01:24 pm:

Mark.

Its under a paragraph in red, on the first screen, that reads "What has Fayette done since leaving the group and what is she doing now?"

Roger

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 02:58 pm:

I see it now...I had browser problems...She looks very beautiful...Its good that she still sings but I am sorry to hear about her daughter

By Rod (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 09:54 pm:

Mark you are right, Fayette is still beautiful. Is there any chance to get her solo effort? I would love to hear it.It's great that she went on with her life after 3 Degrees and got her education. Congratulation. Blessing to her with all her endeavors. we love You Fayette

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 10:14 pm:

Her solo album is a rarety...Someone like JJ or DOL may have it as they know the group which is what they said in previous posts

By Mark (205.188.209.141) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 10:16 pm:

Also from me reading the individual bios earlier...It just so happens that today February 12th is Helen's birthday...

By Nosey (205.188.209.141) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:35 pm:

Finally found the link. Didn't know that Fayette was still in the city. I see we have something in common, as a teenager, I used to sing with the group that was the forerunner of the Intermezzos directed by Dr. Verolga Nix. Now, I'll be on the lookout for the Intermezzo's next concert to check out Fayette.

By MArk (205.188.209.141) on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 02:05 pm:

Is anyone planning to see the girls on tour this year in the UK and Japan

By Mark (64.12.96.238) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 05:41 pm:

What do you all think of Fayette's page on their website? Also I found this article on Sheila on a UK newspaper website and I copy and pasted the text...Read below...

January 21, 2004

Love etc

What does life tell us about love?
This week: Sheila Ferguson



The former Three Degrees member Sheila Ferguson, 56, lives in Bray, Berkshire, with her twin daughters Alicia and Alexandria, 22, from her marriage to Chris Robinson, a property consultant.


NI_MPU('middle');
My parents split when I was three, and I saw my mother�s mental breakdown as schizophrenia took hold. At six I was sweeping the neighbour�s yard for money to buy food. We lived in one room so damp that our clothes were mildewed. When my mother was taken to hospital I was relieved. I thought the aunts and uncles I was sent to live with were unkind to me, but with hindsight a lot was to do with my rebelliousness and sense of shame that my mother was ill.

At 13 I briefly went back to live with her, but she couldn�t control me. Once I began a relationship with the music guru Richard Barrett � I was 15, he was 31 � it was deemed that I should be with my father. He had remarried, but we had always had a loving relationship. I tried to allay his fears about Richard, whom I worshipped.

Richard had written many hits, such as Tears on My Pillow. He picked me up from school in his Cadillac and we had sex in rehearsal rooms. He had married six months before we got together and his wife pleaded with me to give him up. I was shaking as I said no and walked away from her. Later, on tour with the Three Degrees, he cheated on me, but I was too naive to see the pattern of his infidelity. He made me a star but I outgrew him. He became dictatorial and jealous. I fell out of love with him as I matured and realised his rantings were lunacy. Richard physically abused me only once. I went to self-defence classes and the next time he raised his arm to me, I nearly broke it.

A lot has been made of the time the Prince of Wales danced with us on stage in 1978 and later chatted me up. I couldn�t have had a relationship with him because Richard was there the whole time. I once asked a man to dance with me and he said: �I can�t. You�re Prince Charles�s favourite.� Prince Charles ruined my sex life.

I met Chris when I was 31 and he was 23. The marriage was good for a long time, but my stardom bothered him more than he let on. He had said he was happy to remain in the background, but when we began a project to build a house in 1991, cracks appeared in the relationship. He felt he was getting negativity from me. He moved into the flat above the garage, then into his own home. I missed our physical closeness � and my best friend. I said he was having a midlife crisis but he didn�t believe me. By the time he came to his senses, I said: �The ship has sailed.� I could never forgive him for breaking up the family. Our daughters were 16. Their grades suffered. They felt torn between us, but I said showing love to their father wouldn�t hurt me.

I was celibate for two years. The divorce was a war of attrition; I didn�t feel I deserved a sex life. Then I met up with an old boyfriend, a former football pro, but he wrongly led me to believe that he was free to have a relationship.

Six months ago I met a businessman in his late thirties and we are very compatible. He is going through a divorce, but our feelings are so strong that we jump every obstacle. He�s not intimidated by me. It�s love, but it�s too soon to live together.

He was there for me when my father died a few weeks ago, the day after returning to Philadelphia after a wonderful holiday with me here. Helen Scott, one of the Three Degrees to whom I hadn�t spoken since leaving the group in bitter circumstances in 1986, had just lost her father. We hugged and attended each other�s father�s funeral. Now nothing matters as much as companionship and commitment to relationships. I am laying away the ghosts of past relationships and healing old rifts.

Interview by Moira Petty.


Sheila Ferguson appears in Thoroughly Modern Millie at the Shaftesbury Theatre, 020-7379 5399. www.sheilaferguson.com

By 3 d fan (62.254.0.32) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 07:11 pm:

if you would sleep with some one else husband and have the nerve to say to her you do not care about her feelings i wonder how she treated the other girls in the group i.e valerie and fayette

By 3 d fan (62.254.0.32) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 07:11 pm:

if you would sleep with some one else husband and have the nerve to say to her you do not care about her feelings i wonder how she treated the other girls in the group i.e valerie and fayette

By stephanie (69.138.239.31) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 07:27 pm:

Im so glad that Fayette is doing well,,
Stephanie

By Mark (64.12.96.238) on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 07:36 pm:

Stephanie...I am glad too..

3d fan...I do not know what to say. At least she made peace with Helen

By jayjay (81.152.90.249) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 11:57 am:

glad you found the fayette link!

;-)

JJ xx

By Mark (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 12:22 pm: