By Isaiah (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:51 am:

In the book, TROUBLE MAN, Frankie Gaye just about dissects the murder of his brother as Marvin's own personal conspiracy against himself... The drug-taking, the buying of the gun for his father, and then the argument and assault of his dad... He was so matter of fact about it I almost missed his point... From my vantage point, the vantage point of being a parent, I hate to think of the consequences of a child I brought forth assaulting me... What would be my response to that??? The way Frankie explained it, damn, I wound up feeling a sense of empathy for Marvin Gay, sr... I certainly WISH that none of the events which have us commemorating a tragedy instead of celebrating his birthday had never happened, but it almost seemed inevitable from the moment Marvin bought his dad that gun... Oh, and I fully anticipate folk will take that statement the wrong way... To them I ask, what would you do if your son or daughter put their hands on ya in a violent manner???

Peace!
Isaiah

By LadyMystique (216.37.228.72) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:11 pm:

I believe in prevention.

By PlatinumPal (141.151.62.172) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:32 pm:

Hey Bro Ike:

I've missed communicating witcha! I dug the point you raise... especially as a parent who definitely would never take certain dumb stuff from my own kids, no matter how old. When my own dad used to say "I brought you in this world and (if necessary) I'll take you away from here", ya better believe there was no "Cosby Show" laugh track going on!

But in defense of Mr. Gaye Jr., (tho I definitely don't feel that you or Frankie have attacked him), I do believe that a parent needs to carry him/herself in a way that warrants deep respect and love from their kids. Evidently Gaye Sr. left quite a bit to be desired in this aspect of his parenting.

A truly enlightened Marvin Jr. would've realized that part of respecting God and yourself calls for rendering even a piss-poor parent at least a certain minimum of respect. But raised in a violently and emotionally dysfunctional family as his reputedly was, I just can't fault him much for apparently failing so notably in this area.

Thanks for your insightful comment!

By Isaiah (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:37 pm:

Lady Mystique, unfortunately, Marvin came from a lot of dysfunctionality, and so did his dad... Some things carry along the vicious cycle until someone decides they are going to, personally, stop it... In the book, Trouble Man, there is mention made of Marvin's uncles being quite troubled too, so it appears that the family, particularly the males, had major issues with their identities - much like Marvin... I think Marvin would've been better off staying in Europe, far away from all of the dynamics that kept him so troubled his entire life... April 2nd, we might well have been saying "happy 65, Marvin..."

Peace!
Isaiah

By LadyMystique (216.37.228.72) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 08:05 pm:

I hear Isaiah...I read the book too and sometimes I wish his life wouldn't have started and ended the way it did.

By Isaiah (152.163.253.70) on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 08:21 pm:

Platinum Pal, damn brother, you gonna live a long time!!!(smile!) Been thinkin' bout'cha ya whereabouts, and here you come(smile!) Missed your riffs man... Don't be no stranger, lone ranger! You echoed my sentiments exactly on the piece about "brought'cha here, and I'll take ya out!"(smile!) You don't understand what's up until you become a parent, and ponder such a situation... I realize that this sort of emotional thing went through Marvin,Sr.'s head before he picked up that gun... Damn, like I said, I wish Marvin had just kept his distance from this man... After 44 years, he had to know the man was deeply troubled... Oh, well, can't change that... Movin' on...

Peace!
Isaiah

By Nosey (66.153.113.238) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 03:25 pm:

Back in the early 70s when Marvin and I were "talking" via Ma Bell, I was "advised" by someone not to get involved and I took their advice. Nuff said.

I will always love and respect his artistry.

By GOAT (64.228.147.230) on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 03:30 pm:

I wouldn't take crap for my own child either, but I sure wouldn't shoot her.

Violence solves NOTHING!

By bigdaddyg2k4 (205.138.54.205) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 05:21 pm:

As many times it was said before, It was a CRUEL April Fools Day joke, something that should've never happened. The hatred and animosity that Frankie witnessed between his brother and father were something that has bothered him long after Marvin and Marvin Sr. had passed, even so after his own death recently. How many fathers you knew that was a crossdresser in private and a preacher in public, plus very strict to boot? Probably never in your lives including mine. That right there can have an negative affect on a person's psyche as they develop mentally and physically through life. Case in point, the times in Marvin's life (as addressed in David Ritz's bio on Marvin) where he felt uncomfortable in his some of his earlier sexual experiences and his difficult and rocky relationships with his two wives, Anna and Jan. The way he had trouble handling major success as a singer known the world over. I believed that had Marvin had a more loving relationship from his father (he has gotten plenty of love from his mother and siblings) and had he had more support by him, Marvin would probably still be alive today, guided away from the drugs and the hangers-on that eventually led to this sensless tragedy that we are looking back on today. That's all he ever wanted from his father, L-O-V-E, the love and caring that all children deserve from their parents to help them grow and prosper as human beings.

By Juicefree20 (68.161.24.39) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 06:13 pm:

I've seen the damage that a thoughtless, unloving parent can do to their children. I have several friends whose lives have been irreversably ruined due to their childhood experiences. I could never understand how a parent could treat their children with such disdain. Then there are the men who move on with their lives & neglect the children that they had with that person. Not to mention the "mothers" who treat one child worse than the others, because the child reminds them of their daddy. It's just amazing to me & I just can't understand the phenomena.

Juice

By Isaiah (205.188.117.14) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 08:57 pm:

BigDaddy, once you understand the cyclical nature of this thing, then you understand that Marvin Gay,Sr. probably wanted the same thing from his own father(smile!) What did Maurice White sing on Can't Hide Love - you can't give what'cha never had, yeah...(smile!)

Goat, if you're 65 years old, and your 44 year old son attacks you physically, you might feel some empathy with Gay, Sr.... I do not revel in what happened, or say that violence is wonderful by pointing out that these stories have many sides - at least three... MY story, Your story, and the truth... In point of fact, as none of us was there, we really don't know what options MG,sr had or did not have... It's all history now, anyway...

Peace!
Isaiah