By bluerhythmbass (192.55.140.2) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 01:54 pm:

Here's the link.....


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11185718&BRD=988&PAG=740&dept_id=226966&rfi=6

By Greg C. (165.247.38.29) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 06:49 pm:

Good riddance!

By ~medusa~ (68.79.83.37) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:54 pm:

ooooooo OMG, was he high when he put his John Hancock on his contract or something? Did he know who put the contract together? Did he read the fine print? Did he read anything? Who was his manager? Did he have a manager?
Did he have an Attorney to look over his contract and fine print, break it down to him and explain everything to his understanding? Did he ask questions? Where was his Family?...or did he just see $$$$$ and 000000's ?
so in other words, he has no power regarding his own career and his as belong to todays music industry...something went stupid about this.

By Juicefree20 (141.149.41.20) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:10 pm:

Hi Medusa, that's because so many of these kids are just happy to hear their voices on the radio & to see their videos on tv. They don't thimk about the LONG-TERM ramifications of that piece of paper that they're signing. Most of them are nothing but, low-paid indentured servants. They have to begin to realize that when it comes to the money, show business is more about the BUSINESS than the SHOW. While they're paying attention to the SHOW: the glitz, the cars, the ice, the girls & the Cristal, they're getting the BUSINESS: recoupable advances, publicity costs, recording costs, video costs, production costs, various other expenses. How many times have we heard this story before? There's no real excuse for this. These are not the days of Don Robey, etc. There is simply too much information available for them, if only they'd bother to pick up a book & read.

Juice

By RD (65.54.98.22) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:38 pm:

I guess Madonna (who's suing Warner Brothers) and the countless other recording artists from the sixties up to the present are stupid too?

Some of you really need to get a clue. The record business is rotten at the top, the middle, the bottom and through and through.

Was all the Motown artists stupid for signing their contracts at Motown without a lawyer looking them over because they couldn't take the contracts off the premises? And don't give me this "there's too much info out there crap." There is never enough info when you're dealing with crooks who never intend to do right by you in the first place. Do some of you really think these record companies are going to change their contracts because someone starts squawking about some clauses they deem unfair? Are you guys really that naive and think that? Do you realize the incredible number of singers and bands trying to get a deal?

You're right on one point Juice. It's not Don Robey. It's far worse because the stakes are bigger these days and there is far more money to be made. So the swindles and cheating is more widespread and cutthroat than ever.

By ~medusa~ (68.79.119.233) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 09:38 am:

..and RD, you are probably right, but that's terrible...
Juicefree you are also very correct, these kids get excited about what's going on here and now, what they see, and not what's coming on after all the goodies are gone...and when the dust is all cleared, aint nothing left.

By MC (68.236.40.106) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 10:45 am:

Anybody wanna buy a Bentley and some iced out crosses?

By RD (65.54.98.18) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 01:17 pm:

The ones who are laughing at DMX shouldn't be, because what has happened to him is why you don't see many of the classic soul and pop stars with recording contracts. The older artists are smarter, having been ripped off and cheated unmercifully before, now have the means to have good lawyers look over their contracts and make demands as to implementing clauses more favorable to them (the artist). This has resulted in almost total rejection with offers being pulled off the tables by the major record companies who aren't about to be straight up or even equitable. Hence, acts like the Chi-lites, Tyrone Davis, and others don't have record deals. If these old soul and pop artists were willing to go for the same old sucker deals they signed before many of them would be still recording.

By Shauntrell (68.43.4.16) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 01:37 pm:

Never have there been so many Black brothers and sisters controlling and running things in the music industry as there are right now. Hate on Hip-Hop and DMX (who by the way is the only artist in MUSIC history to have his first five albums all debut at #1 on Billboard, Greg C) if you must, but you cannot deny the knowledge our younger brothers and sisters have gained and have passed down to many a up-and-comer on these streets....AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Teena Marie has just released a record, and Cash Money Records is her label. This is a woman who has been in the game for a minute now, and yet she saw how they do things at Cash Money, signed on the dotted line, and now she's gonna blow up like dynamite.....

By Greg C. (165.247.28.89) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 04:10 pm:

What good is a #1 album on the Billboard charts when your record company is jacking you left and right and at the end of the day you don't have a dime in your pocket?

Shauntrell, I really suggest you do some research. Granted, there are a lot of people of color in the music industry who are doing quite well, but the bottom line decisions are STILL decided on by the white coporate structure.

I don't hate on Hip-hop. I'm just hard pressed to see anything redeeming in a form of "music" that is misogynistic, spews forth hatred and frustration like venom, and has "dumbed down" so many of my young brothers and sisters.

While I'm a long-time follower of Teena Marie and I enjoy her music, the reality is she signed with a label like Cash Money (which is small) because none of the majors would have probably signed her because she too old and her market is limited to an older demographic. (Cold, hard facts!) The record companies now just don't care about older music buyers and that's just ONE of the many reasons the music business is in such dire straits, but that's a thirty page thesis.

By RD (65.54.98.167) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 10:12 pm:

Hey Greg C, Teena could get a deal with a major if she was willing to sign another bullshit slave contract where the bulk of the monies flowed into the record company's pocket. She's not willing to do that and neither are many other classic soul and pop acts anymore. BTW, I don't considered Cash Money a small label.

By Isaiah (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:14 am:

Greg C, I dig your posts most of the time, man, but "Good Riddance" to DMX??? No, this cat has, and will likely continue to, make millions as an actor, so forget that(smile!) This is an option that many of the older acts did not have, and we should give praise to the HipHop Generation for opening those doors... While I agree that there remains little in the genre that I can get with these days, and the nihilistic program of the acts has me drowning in a sea of tears, I do see the positives in what a some of the older generation HipHoppers have done over the years... Like us, they've gone through a maturation period, and have outgrown a lot of the nonsense that got them fame and attention... Props to DMX, who is actually, a very thoughful guy compared to his peers... By the way, we old heads need to examine the history of Black Music in this country a little more closely before taking off on riffs on HipHop...

Remember that the Blues is the granddaddy of HipHop, and the genre covered the bases as per the dysfunctionality the players saw in themselves, as well as the society at large... There are Blues songs on everything imaginable, from drinking sterno to homosexuality, to mean ass mamas, and Sweetback Papas... The music was about the folk lives of African Americans, not some popular, ivory tower snobbery as expressed in tin pan alley stuff...

I maintain, aint S@@! in HipHop aint already been dealt with in the Blues and Rhythm and Blues... Just we have protected our favorite artists to cover their sins(smile!) I don't see how there's a damned thing redeeming in If Loving You Is Wrong I Don't Want To Be Right, and Me and Mrs. Jones, but we loved it, and compliments to the chefs at Philly International, and their wonderful house band... Brother that is hypocrisy in the extreme... From Rick James' Super Freak to Marvin's Sexual Healing to R. Kelly's Feelin On Yo Bootie, what is the damned difference, if the meaning is the same??? Certainly, I would prefer some subtlety, but I aint nitpicking, because I'm hip that there's more than one way to scale that fish, man...(smile!)

Finally, Motown was a small, rinky dink label in 1960... And Tina has a bit of a Rap history, so props to her for seeing the value in the genre a long time ago... As an artist, I am certain she just wants to try something fresh and new... What is there to lose???

Peace!
Isaiah

By dvdmike (68.253.213.250) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:25 am:

I say kudos to DMX for stepping up to the plate. For most recording "artists", it's all about getting paid. Many don't think about or care about the negative side of the biz or how not thinking ahead can put them in the years ahead - behind. To quote Curt Flood: "A well-paid slave is still nontheless, a slave."

By LadyMystique (216.108.206.177) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:52 am:

DMX has always been an outspoken artist, so this doesn't shock me in the least. He is saying what probably many artists are afraid of saying for fear of losing their contract, being blackballed, etc. In his mind, I guess if he has to lose his contract with DefJam, then he would go on to other things...he said on MTV that he was going to do more acting as he is tired of the "game". I say, GO ON BROTHER and DO YOURS.

By Greg C. (165.247.41.36) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 02:50 pm:

Isaiah,

I agree, Motown was a small "rinky dink" company in the early sixties, but through nuturing, skill, and a clear vision that company grew to be an internationally respected institution. Those artists were groomed for longevity and appealed to a wide cross section of people. I can assure you that Cash Money will NEVER reach those heights. The bulk if not the majority of product that comes out of that company is profane and has very little redeeming value. Orther than Def Jam, which has diversified in order to survive, most rap labels just don't last long.

I don't feel DMX. I am opened minded indivdual who is open to listen to anything, but I just ain't feeling this brother spewing all this profanity & hate. "Keeping it real?" Keeping what real? I'm out in the field as a mental health professional and I work with young folks on the regular. I have lost count of how many of them have absorbed and incorporated this hip-hop ideology into their persona and are unable to differentiate fantasy from reality, going out in these streets trying to be "hard" and ending up jacked up, shot, stabbed, or dead. I don't see most of the rap music offering solutions, just ranting on about how f$&^#d things are. Tell me something I don't already know?

Yeah, Billy Paul, Luther Ingram, and others made songs about adultery. There have ALWAYS been songs about cheating, but there was a BALANCE back then. You had groups like EWF who instilled pride and self-worth. Acts like that now get ZERO play or are accused of being "soft"!

I'm well researched and I have studied the history of black music in this country. I just don't ever recall a period in music when so much negativity permeated our culture. Damn, even in slavery our people had songs of hope, inspiration, and encouragement and they lived under cruel & horrific conditions.

By DyvaNaye (152.163.253.70) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 06:17 pm:

Bye DMX...Im not sure of your significance in the world of what I know as REAL music, but fair thee well....

By bigdaddyg2k4 (205.138.54.1) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 04:42 pm:

Ahh Man! I feel his pain, though. The major labels are so greedy and so disrespectful to their artists, they are willing to let them hang out to dry until every last dollar is squeezed out of them. But on the other hand, DMX has place some of the blame on himself too, for he DID sign on the dotted line before he took the time to read the fine print over the fine print and in between in his record contract. It sounds like he basically signed his life away for peanut money and no matter where his career may go, his music still belongs to Def Jam lock, stock and barrel. The girls, cars, bling and the other trappings (and I do mean it litterally) of success
doesn't faze me at all. It's nice to be successful and all in "da biz", but if you don't have all your ducks in a row, then you're screwed for life. One word of advice to all up n' coming artists: If you don't understand the words, phrases and numbers in your contract, talk to YOUR lawyer not the label's, they are merely working in the LABEL'S best interest, not yours. And if that said label doesn't give you enough info about the specifics in your contract, and can't take it home with you to look at it more thoroughly or more time to read it, GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE! They're trying 2 screw you, son.

By Grubman, Indursky, Shindler (216.139.153.109) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 04:45 pm:

This topic was already discussed, right ? You guys must love DMX.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 05:14 pm:

Thank you, Grubman, for making the point.

I'm not gonna repeat myself here because I already made my points in the other thread regarding this topic.

Medusa does raise some damned good questions about the accountability an artist must take to look out after themselves yet I also agree with RD - the contracts I've seen recently are far worse than those from the past because the labels want control over everything including your name. Now there is talk that the labels are gonna try to work into their contracts a way to make money off of the artists' concert tours! Before this was the only way a recording act could make money that their label couldn't touch.

That's why I'm staying indie, folks....

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Grubman, Indursky and Shindler (216.139.153.109) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 05:18 pm:

Kev Go Thanks for the vote of confidence !! Let me add Kev, Bobby Caldwell is another artist that the major labels courted heavily. He's a partner in Sin Drome Records. Every major label wanted a piece of him something terrible. He told ALL of them to "F OFF !!!" So yeah Kev, I'm staying indie also.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 05:26 pm:

Grubman:
And to think, Bobby Caldwell owns the master & publishing of his biggest hit "What You Won't Do For Love", among the other recordings he made. Gotta give Bobby his props.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Grubman, Indursky, Shindler (216.139.153.109) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 05:36 pm:

Props given !! Not to keep harping on this Kev, but we indie like minds (meaning you & I) gotta give it up for producer extraordinaire, Gary Taylor. He absolutely REFUSED to buckle down to what record labels wanted from him as a musician & producer. He's very very content running his Morning Crew Music from an indie standpoint. Could you imagine these modern day A&R cats telling him what songs to add and not to add on his albums? I think a fist fight would break out.

That's like these young A&R cats telling Bobby Eli what brand guitar he should've used on those Spinners records. Mr. Eli, (if you're reading this) I know you're not a violent man, but I would think you would have to slap one of these cats if you were told such a thing.

Peace

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 05:38 pm:

Amen, Grubman!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By LadyMystique (216.37.228.72) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 07:28 pm:

Just a topic worth discussing...education for minds like me.