By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 01:35 am:

What can I say Mike. You have now broken a forum record with three consecutive threads. I have a feeling this isn't over by a long shot. Please continue.....

By M.McLeanTech (64.236.243.243 - 64.236.243.243) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 01:55 am:

Dear "CL,"

Thank you for your second letter of May 3, 2002 - 12:21 AM.

If you look over the "Mike McLean 2" thread, you will see some postings regarding my answering letters in the order received. Sometimes I cheat when I have the hots, but generally I try to maintain this practice.

I have not been ignoring your first letter at all. It is simply that it was not your turn yet.

It just happens that your first letter is next in line. I looked it over last night, but I was too tired (after all that discussion about getting a degree in organic chemistry in order to evaluate condoms) to tackle it.

I will lump your new letter in with your first one and answer them both very soon.

I can't do it right at the moment because I am down at work making videocassette dubs, and don't have enought time to get into it.

Thank you,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (64.236.243.243 - 64.236.243.243) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:43 am:

NOTICE

THIS THREAD "MIKE MCLEAN 3" IS A CONTINUATION OF A DISCUSSION THAT STARTED AT THE TOP OF THE THREAD "TECHNICAL DISCUSSION WITH MIKE MCLEAN"

AFTER THAT THREAD WAS CLOSED, THE DISCUSSION CONTINUED IN "MIKE MCLEAN 2" UNTIL THAT THREAD WAS CLOSED.

THE DISCUSSION NOW CONTINUES IN THE PRESENT THREAD "MIKE MCLEAN 3"

By john Lester (213.1.136.159 - 213.1.136.159) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:37 am:

Mike

When it's my turn...

Can you describe a typical day at Hitsville USA
and your interaction with the producers, artists and staff et al please.

And can you recall any other special tracks during that time. Robert Gordy's "Everyone Was There" and Gino Parks "For This I Thank You" are real hard records to find in the UK for most people. BTW, do you recall Gino Parks, cos I dont know much about him at all. I am not sure I have even seen a picture of him...come to think of it, I haven't seen a picture of you either!

Maybe our Mr W might consider putting together the Best Of Mike McLean - all the Motown songs that have a special meaning from a technical point of view!!

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.110 - 209.245.64.110) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:42 am:

Dear "CL"

Thank you for your letter of April 28, 2002 - 07:44 PM.

I understand your interest in "all analog" recording. I maintain contact with several friends that feel as you do.

I applaud your interest and effort to make a superior recording of music, on an idealistic basis.

Have you heard any of the Sheffield Labs direct to disc recordings? One of the most fabulous ones was 'The King James Version" with Harry James and his big band.

These are superb examples of that for which you lust: CLEAN SOUND.

Your description of the equipment was not impressive, but it is always possible that a wonderful recording could result, with that old equipment. It all depends on the taste, and know-how, of the recording engineer, if a thrilling "ultra high fidelity," with stunning transparency, "waxing" is to result. ("Waxing" is an old slang term that means "sound recording." It is from the days before lacquer coated discs and magnetic tape, when they recorded on wax.)

I can imagine the possibility that an old RCA 44 could participate in a stunningly lifelike recording. All it would take is a mixer who knew where to place it.

Generally, I feel that modern microphones are more likely to result in the kind of "transparent" sound that I personally prefer, and THE FEWER THE BETTER!

I enjoy swing music.

Thank you for your second letter, which made much more clear what you have in mind with your plan to send me your record.

If you want to go to all that trouble and expense, I assure you that I will listen to the record and let you know what I think of it. However, I want to make it very clear that my opinion is that of a "purist" who above all else values a natural, transparent sound where the "recording" is not noticeable. I want a recording to make me feel like I am sitting in the concert hall. In general, pop records do not impress me in a positive way, as far as the recording technique is concerned. They tend to sound unnatural. I take great pleasure in recordings that provide "lifelike" natural timbre of the musical instruments.

If you want a critical opinion of your record in the perspective of what was considered good by the quality control department at Motown, you would be wasting your effort to seek it from me. I consider most Motown records to be "low fidelity," not withstanding the fact that they usually are fairly effective in putting the spotlight on the music, within the limitations of the record/reproduce format. By "format" I mean this:

A teenage kid playing back a Motown 45 RPM record on a cheap mono portable phonograph is a format.

Sitting in a big movie theatre watching a 70 MM print of a first run action movie with six track digital sound is a format.

Listening to a fifty-dollar ultra premium analog audiophile LP record on a $20,000. "high end" home music system with six foot high planer magnetic loudspeakers, or similar electrostatic loudspeakers, is a format.

I am familiar with them all, but my heart tends toward the latter camp, with the exception that I don't waste money on "high end" hype, like fancy speaker cables, overpriced amplifiers, and phono cartridges carved out briar wood.

Regarding the details of your sending me your record: If you will post a letter, in response to my present letter, which includes your email address (I checked, and you did not include it in your second letter) I will send you an email and we can discuss the specifics. I prefer not to post my home address, phone number, or email address on the forum.

While we are at it, it would be nice to know what your name is, and the name of the city in which you reside.

Sincerely,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.110 - 209.245.64.110) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 07:51 am:

Dear John,

Regarding "all the recordings that please Mike McLean from a technical point of view:"

Please see my letter to "CL" which is sandwiched between your letter and this letter.

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.110 - 209.245.64.110) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 09:29 am:

Dear Ritchie,

Thank you for your letter of April 28, 2002 - 07:50 PM. I was fascinated by your remarks about nostalgia. I have come to dislike the rude technique of "dissecting" a letter with a computer.

However, I have a feeling that you have a mind that is very interested in intellectual discussion and analysis of interesting ideas. There is no doubt that when it comes to "getting down to the nitty-gritty" this rude practice, of dissection, is the only way to go. Accordingly, here I go. I hope you will understand the spirit in which I resort to this process:

START PASTE IN OF RITCHIE

I think your comments on the subject of nostalgia are extremely apt - often it's a rose-tinted view of a time which had its pitfalls as well as its peaks.

END PASTE IN OF RITCHIE

This sounds good. But you are leading up to something:

START PASTE IN OF RITCHIE

I would suggest that our particular fascination for the "golden years" stems not from any wistful longing to return, but from a burning desire to discover the background stories and technical details which add to our understanding, and enjoyment of the music.

END PASTE IN OF RITCHIE

An elegant historian studies history. A "fan" of art wants to be with the creator of that art. This is perfectly natural, and results in fantasies about possible ways that one could, "if only there was an Aladdin's Magic Lamp" learn all there is to learn about each and every question that had ever occurred to the fan as he/she swooned over the artist's work.

Your comment above about these approaches, and pitfalls is an attempt to bifurcate this basic fact into two "threads" (to use a forum term): There is the silly thread, where people lust for a time machine, and there is the legitimate thread, where musical historians attempt to gather facts.

I feel that this argument is about like saying that there is NICE passionate involvement, all the way, between a man and a woman, and there is an ILLEGITIMATE passionate involvement, all the way, between a man and a woman.

I intended to discuss the basic lust for love (to continue the metaphor) when I discussed nostalgia, not the "niceties."

Let me try to make my point clear by using an analogy:

I was writing about how swimming can be dangerous. You, essentially, pointed out that "properly trained swimmers need have no fear," while fools (like little kids that wander out to a swimming pool after dinner and jump in) are not a matter to focus upon because they are not part of the present discussion perception.

I beg to differ.

START PASTE IN OF RITCHIE

I suppose it is no different to reading a biography of Beethoven to better understand the man who created the nine symphonies... except that such an endeavour is academically accepted, whereas researching into Motown records may be viewed by some as a low-brow pursuit!

END PASTE IN OF RITCHIE

This observation is clearly discussing the value of taking an interest in various musical art works, specifically Beethoven and Motown. The point clearly is that a defense against some sort of "snobbery" is being presented.

I want to make it very clear right now: Nostalgia and snobbery are two different things.

Frankly, your attempt to bifurcate the subject of nostalgia into a split discussion, which includes both nostalgia and snobbery, seems snobbish to me. It is perfectly possible to be obsessed with nostalgia, while at the same time be free of snobbishness, and vice-versa.

In other words, your presentation does not seem well thought out.

The rest of your letter is, as I see it, more opportunities for me to continue along the above line.

I could point out, based on the rest of your letter, moments where you are, actually, a typical "fan" who loves nostalgia, just like we all do.

I have been repeatedly accused of being a pompous snob, from time to time, all my life. I want you to know that I feel less alone now, because you are my Pal.

Please do not take the above as an insult. I am just trying to discuss things honestly, and in a straightforward way, in the interest of understanding.

Sincerely,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (65.59.27.191 - 65.59.27.191) on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 11:10 pm:

Dear Ralph,

Thank you for your letter of April 28, 2002 - 08:09 PM. I seem to have caused some misunderstanding with my remarks about using a time machine in connection with nostalgia.

My mother always told me that I should use my "magic lamp" when I wanted to have some fun. This was my imagination. I found that it was possible to have lots of fun by simply imagining fantasies about whatever I was interested in at the time. The problem is that there are limitations on the available facts. For example, I can imagine being at Motown and speaking with Miss Ray (Berry's wife Raynoma, in 1961) but I would not know what kind of perfume she wore. The advantage of having actually been there is that I know that it was Emeraud (spelling?).

The time machine concept is not about actually moving to a different time. It is an imaginary concept about a machine that would allow one to project into any situation, at any point in time, and be like a ghost, or a fly on the wall. When I watch a Laurel and Hardy comedy, I get this feeling of what fun it would be if I could be on the set and just look around. I would love to look over the cameras, the sound recording equipment, Etc. I would love to be invisible and follow them to lunch and watch as they converse.

The feeling of nostalgia, which I feel is a natural human emotion, brings on this sort of fantasizing. There are many different ways of dealing with nostalgia, and simply doing historical research is a very practical approach.

My main point was simply that I feel that it is possible to get a little off the deep end if one does not watch it. Further, one should always try to keep in mind the "rose colored glasses" effect.

Mike McLean

By cl (152.163.197.72 - 152.163.197.72) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 01:59 am:

Mr. McLean thanks for your thoughtful response . I believe we are on the same wavelength so to speak!

Also I should say I am the drummer on the LP I refer to. My knowledge of the particulars is very limited. We recorded everything live. And our intention was to make the type of sonically superior recording you know about.

Please understand this was our 1st attempt at this; we will do more! Mostly we have had a favorable response. I mentioned that Stan Ricker mastered the LP. As you may well know he has remastered many Lp's for mobile fidelity. Mr. Ricker has been very encouraging and has even gone as far as to say this is one of his favorite mastering projects. I only say that to gain some credibility with you!


Our model so to speak has been many different recordings; with much of the Nelson Riddle/ Sinatra capitol stereo recordings being an inspiration. Sinatra's swinging sessions being a favorite.

In any case I have gone on long enuff about all that; here is some personal info.

I grew up and live in Ann Arbor, so when you wrote of Ann Arbor in the 1950's I was intrigued. I am 46 my name is Bill. I have fond memories of AA and it is still a very fine town. Even if the Union has been McDonalized!!

I too am cautious of displaying info but here is my email: acone56@yahoo.com, I do hope you will contact me. It would be my pleasure to have someone of your knowledge and experience give an opinion. So any expense incurred would be happily spent.

One last thing, I always thought motown sounded best on the car radio pre-stereo!!

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.129.229 - 63.212.129.229) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 03:05 am:

Dear Graham,

Thank you for your letter of April 29, 2002 - 05:12 AM.

Looking back, I have the impression that the studios ran about 16 hours per day. It really is not very practical to run around the clock. There has to be some time to do maintenance work on the machines, sweep up the floor, Etc. Another problem can occur when someone runs overtime. You need a buffer to smooth things out.

I always tried to manipulate the situation so that I had normal daytime working hours. If people were needed to cover at night, I would hire someone to cover that shift. I had a tendency to spend most of my time dealing with other people. I could not do all the work myself, so I had to manage a staff that would do the work. It always seemed like every time you create a new position, and hire someone to fill it, you gain eight person-hours per day of new productivity, but it costs you about three person hours per day of additional overhead. Communication is a time consuming thing. There used to be a huge amount of time spent on meetings at Motown.

In the early days, we would have a company meeting about once a week. The entire staff would be packed into the studio for about 90 minutes, while all sorts of things were discussed. Everyone singing of the company song, which was written by Smokey Robinson, always closed the meeting:

Oh we are a very swinging company,
working hard from day to day.
Nowhere will you find more unity,
Then at Hitsville U.S.A.

Our main purpose is to please the world
With songs the DJ's are glad to play.
Our employees here are all the best,
Here at Hitsville, U.S.A.

I said Hitsville,
I said Hitsville,
I said Hitsville U.S.A!

I may not have every lyric exactly correct.

In the early days, sessions were occasionally recorded at United Sound, or in New York City. After we got the studio working fairly well, this sort of thing became less frequent. In the late 60's, after Berry moved to Los Angeles, things got so complicated that material was being recorded at many locations. I was not involved in these matters on a day to day basis. I really have very little idea what went on.

There may have been many little recording studios around Detroit, but I have the feeling that Motown did not shoot much business in their direction. Ralph Terrana is in a much better position (then I am) to comment regarding where we recorded Motown material in the late 60's (after we moved to the "Motown Center.")

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 04:14 am:

Mike,
Motown used only it's own studio facilities to produce it's music. When I had Tera Shirma we were doing some mixing for Motown I think because we were a bit ahead of them at the time in stereo mixing capabilities,but this was just a brief period.

At the time I was running the Motown studios basically everything was coming out of the company's Detroit studios, that is Studio A and Studio B ( Golden World )
The two studios were extremely busy and at times scheduling could be a nightmare. Due to it's mystique Studio A was coveted by most of the producers, especially in terms of cutting rhythm tracks. Who could blame them? The studio was excellent. However there were production deadlines to be met and the long line waiting to get into Studio A wasn't doing much to satisfy these deadlines.

Mike,I know you had done some extensive re-working of Golden World and at some time it might be interesting to hear exactly what was done to the studio after it was purchased from Ed Wingate. Hmmmm...put this one in it's proper spot in your letter answering line-up Mike. At any rate I always liked Golden World and saw it's potential. Frank Wilson was hot to get into the studio to cut some tracks, but Studio A was backed up as usual. I convinced Frank to cut the tracks at GW. I must be honest, I held my breath for the success of that session. Fortunately, all turned out well, and even though Frank would revert to cutting future tracks at Studio A ( After all Studio A was STILL Studio A ) GW began to really come into it's own. Norman Whitfield would do mch of his work there. Because of it's superior size over Studio A all horn and string dates were done at GW.

So the point here is that these two studios were responsible for the work coming out of Motown in the late 60's and early 70's. In all fairness to L.A., there was a certain amount of work being produced in Motown's West Coast facility which was known at the time as Mowest, but again, this was a Motown Facility.

As Mike pointed out, down time was essential.The studios may not have been running 24/7 but the hours on them were long and hard.

By john lester (213.1.130.74 - 213.1.130.74) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 07:33 am:

Mike - that was an ace posting for someonelike me and thanks too to our dear Ralph for his additions - keep it coming guys!

Can I make the suggestion that it is VERY obvious to the ear to decide when the music tracks were not totally recorded in Detroit. The only difficulty comes when you have the Detroit musicians doing their stuff in another town......for instance, Reflections...apparently had the bass put on by James Jamerson when he was out on tour outside Detroit - but I still count that as a Detroit record. Rightly or wrongly, I think I personally use the term "Detroit" or "Hitsville" recording to describe the feel of the musicians, engineers and producer(s) on the track

Taking it a bit further, the lead vocals on I'll Keep Holding from the Marvelettes was recorded in New York (see Fred Bronson's sleeve notes on Deliver) but I haven't yet mastered being able to determine whether a vocalist recorded in Detroit or outside the city! The vocal for "When I'm Gone" from Brenda Holloway was recorded by Brenda on the west coast but that record is what I would call a "Detroit" or "Hitsville USA" record. Whereas something like "Trapped", "Keep On Rollin'" are all west coast.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 10:38 am:

Thanks for another great reply Mike.
When I asked about other Detroit studios, I was wondering if you worked for any other recording company during the 1960s - as I know some of the musicians did session work for them. I now realise that you didn't.
Thanks again,
Graham

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.73.86 - 209.245.73.86) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 06:39 pm:

Dear Steve (The Count),

Thank you for your colorful and enjoyable letter of April 29, 2002 - 07:11 PM. I agree wholeheartedly with your view that the 1950's are the place to be. I found your letter so inspiring that I thought I would take a look around from here and describe what is happening:

The 1950 Studebaker is in the first of two years with the bullet nose front, and my dad is thinking about buying one. I always did wonder what would happen if one of these cars had a head on collision with a 58 Edsel.

Record shops are going crazy. It's only been a couple of years since April, 1948, when Columbia introduced the "LP" record, and RCA Victor countered with the 45 R.P.M. record last year, followed shortly by the introduction of their own LP. RCA Victor is trying to keep the concept of an "album" alive (This nomenclature was born when they started recording long works, like symphonies, on 78's, which required a book-like package holding many discs.) by offering 45 R.P.M. albums of long classical works, while also covering the market with LP and 78 versions. Pop records are being released in both 45 and 78 versions. The stock control problems are driving the shops up the wall.

I just finished building my first amplifier with the help of El Dostie, a family friend. It has three tubes: 6J5 input stage, 6F6 power output (single ended), and an 80 rectifier. A friend of my dad's gave me an old Wilcox-Gay turntable, which has two pickup arms. One has a crystal playback cartridge, and the other has a magnetic cutting head for making home recordings. My new amplifier, which I built out of junk parts that I obtained by taking apart old radios, has enough gain to drive my Quam "Adjust-A-Cone" five inch speaker, thanks to the high output voltage of the crystal cartridge.

My dad just replaced his 1939 vintage Thordarson amplifier (for the family Hi-Fi set) with a 20 Watt Williamson amplifier custom built by Maxfield B. Stroup, a fellow that my dad met in an radio parts store. The output stage has four type 1614 tubes in push-pull parallel. These beam power tetrodes, similar to a 6L6, are triode connected. I've got the hots to build my own Williamson amplifier, but I will have to wait until I am 12, and can get a Detroit News paper route to earn the money to pay for the parts.

I sure wish Dad would buy a TV. I have been going crazy running all over the neighborhood begging the families that have a TV set to let me watch "Crusader Rabbit." I am just nuts about this cartoon show. Little do I know that 37 years from now, in 1987, while working at Hanna-Barbera Productions, I will meet Lucille Bliss (the voice of Crusader Rabbit) at the company Christmas party and drive her home to her apartment in Hollywood. At that time, she will be the voice of Smurfette, in "The Smurfs."

Speaking of cartoons, I just love to walk over to the Great Lakes Theatre on Grand River Avenue and buy a 12-cent ticket for a Saturday matinee. I just had the daylights scared out of me by the creepiest movie I ever saw: "The Man From Planet X." I am so spooked that I can't go down the basement any more because I am afraid that the man from planet X will step out of the shadows and sneak up behind me. They always run lots of cartoons at the matinee, and my favorites are the MGM "Tom and Jerry" cartoons. Little do I know that 37 years from now, in 1987, while working at Hanna-Barbera Productions, my electronics shop, where I maintain the sound and video equipment, will be a twenty second walk away from the offices of Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera, who created these cartoons about the cat and mouse in 1939, before I was born.

It's a year later, in 1951. My dad bought a 51 Studebaker Champian, with the small flat head six. This is the first year for the new Studebaker overhead valve V-8, but he went with the six. Last year was the last of the old "big six" used in the Studebaker Commander. I guess he was trying to save money so he could pay for the fancy Dumont "Westbury" 19 inch black and white TV set that he just purchased for $500. That is about 30% as much as the new Studebaker cost.

This Dumont is a rich man's TV set. Everything is double. Two 5U4-G rectifiers, two 6BG6-G horizontal outputs, two 6W4-GT dampers, and two 1X2A high voltage rectifiers. On top of that, it has a monster SOLA ferroresonant "Constant Voltage" power transformer, with it's resonator capacitor, a big GE "Pyranol" oil filled metal can type. I'll bet there is plenty of toxic PCB oil in that puppy! The set is equipped with a new type of green "tuning eye" tube (6AF4-GT) with a split square screen, which allows both a center of channel, and a signal strength display. I still like the older round tube, like the 6E5. I think it looks cool!

I walk home from Cadillac Elementary School, on Schoolcraft between Sussex and Coyle, for lunch every day. A great new show has just started up on WXYZ TV channel 7: The Soupy Sales Show. Soupy has this crazy dog named "White Fang" who is always throwing pies in his face. Soupy runs great old silent comedies like Clyde Cook, Charlie Chase, Laurel and Hardy, Buster Keaton, and Harold Lloyd. Little do I know that fifteen years from now I will meet Soupy when he records an album for Motown.

I just built a "tuned grid tuned plate" power RF oscillator using a cigar box for a chassis, and an old 6BG6-G tube that I found in the trash bin in the alley behind the TV repair shop. I used a couple of variable capacitors that I pulled out of junk radios, and I wound the self-supporting coils around a screwdriver handle with 14 A.W.G. (American Wire Gauge) copper bus wire that I found in a trash can where they were building a new house. The electrical contractor left the scrap wire there.

I had no idea what the oscillator frequency would be, but it just happened to be right in the upper TV band (channels 7 through 13, just above the FM band, which is 88-108 MHz.) That oscillator could be tuned up to totally block out reception on either 7 or 9, the only high band channels in service in Detroit at that time. The picture would turn to a mess worse then we have today with a pay TV channel that is scrambled, and the sound would disappear and be replaced by a low hum from the ripple in the junk box power supply that I had built for the oscillator. When you tapped one of the two oscillator tank coils (that bounced around like a "Slinkey Toy") it caused a horrendous "sprrrroing" sound to come out of the TV loudspeaker.

I have a pal at Cadillac school named Bud Quick. He lives down the street. We discussed this, and he said he wanted to play a trick on his Dad, who came by every day to have lunch, and loved to watch channel 9 while eating. Bud and I laid out a timetable where I would jam channel 9 for five minutes at exactly fifteen minutes past noon. This would give us both time to get home, so I could fire up the oscillator, and Bud could watch his old man go nuts. It worked perfectly. That afternoon, Bud was totally in stitches telling how his dad was having a fit because his show was blocked off. It gave Bud a fantastic sense of power to see that show go out at exactly 12:15, and watch his old man go nuts while Bud knew exactly what the inside story was.

This incident started giving me the creeps right away, and I dismantled the oscillator next day. That was enough fun. It was time to quit before the FCC came and took me away.

I heard a pop song on the radio the other day. I really like it a lot. I had my dad listen to it next time it came on the radio. He got a look on his face like he had just drunk a water glass full of gasoline. The song is "A Guy is a Guy" sung by Doris Day. Here is an excerpt:

So I walked down the aisle
like a good girl should.
He followed me down the aisle
like I knew he would.
'Cause a guy is guy,
whoever he may be.
So listen to this story
of what a fellow did to me.

Speaking of pop songs, there is a new one out that has all the old ladies in the neighborhood all up in arms about indecency: "Cry" sung by Johnny Ray.

My dad has been using a professional pickup arm made by Gray Research and Development Co. with a GE variable reluctance cartridge. He just came home with a new pickup/cartridge, and is busy mounting it on his Rek-O-Cut T-12H turntable. It is an Audax DL6 turnover cartridge (which is equipped with two styli for standard and microgroove) which mounts in the Audax arm. The whole mess is made by the Audak Company of New York City, founded by Maximillian Weile. Yes: The AUDAK Company makes AUDAX pickups.

Well, Count Steve, this is all the time I have to report things from the 50's. So long until tomorrow (as Lowell Thomas says each night at the end of his news broadcast.) I have got to stop fooling around at this computer and go install a new clutch in my stick shift 1991 Toyota truck. After 131,422 miles, it is starting to slip. I am going to jack it up on jack stands in my garage, crawl under there, pull the transmission out, and replace the pilot bearing, disc, pressure plate, and throw out bearing myself. They wanted $450. to do the job at the garage, but the parts only cost $106. I'll keep the money and have some fun, thank you.

Thanks again for your letter.

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.128.80 - 63.212.128.80) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 11:07 pm:

I sure am glad that I have not discovered a Hanna-Barbera websight like this soulfuldetroit one.

I don't know what I would do if I had to answer all their letters in addition to all the letters from the forum.

Seriously, I want the forum to know that I feel a great sense of "letting go," which is the mental feeling that is similar to the physical feeling experienced when one has during a superior, beautiful "bowel movement," about my process of offering these thoughts. This is not to imply that the forum is a toilet. The idea is that it is high time that these matters were no longer harbored in my body.

It makes me feel much less troubled, and inclined to drink, to present these thoughts to the forum. I delight in short friendly comments, which I try to answer on the spot, as well as the comments that inspire longer letters (which take so long that they must be processed on a first come (Oh dear, there I go again about the Twinkies) first served basis.

Just for the record: I prefer hamburgers over hot dogs! You can bet on that!

Love,

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 11:58 pm:

Mike,
You've apparently been " holding ' it in for quite some time. It's about time to let go of it all. Glad to see it is happening here. We all benifit.

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.128.80 - 63.212.128.80) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 12:17 am:

This conclusion is contingent on upon the response to my postings.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 12:23 am:

Well it may become rather interesting Mike. Maybe we now embark on a completely different journey regarding the " Motown experience " It may be time to really GET DOWN if you get my drift.

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.128.80 - 63.212.128.80) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 12:45 am:

Ralph,

I do not post these stories on the forum on the basis of being a damn fool.

I expect enough responsivnicess. (this seems like baloney} to make it worth worthwhile.

Let me make a statement: You rat bastards out there that just look at our these discussions, can meet me in Hell!

I love you Motown fans, but how much do you love fine music?

You are all fools, as far as I am concerned. This is because you have no idea about how music can express tender feelings.

I mean it! I invite challanges.I will stand and defend, the sacred works of Bach.

Ya wanna a sample, write for it!

What a bunch of fools.

Your drunken fool,

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 01:06 am:

Mike,
Bach is definitely Bach and we certainly cannot compare any of it to anything on Motown.We are talking apples and oranges here. However Mike, you must admit that there was much coming out of Motown that was realy good and extremely capable of evoking true tenderness..( get ready folks..Mike and I are about to have one of our famous conversations ) For example, the Four Top's Still Waters album is in my opinion one of the finest pieces of work to come out of Detroit.
The music business has made fools of all of us at one time or another. We both realize that. And maybe we were each on different quests in those days...I was looking for the perfect band...you were looking for the perfect sound....But our individual intentions were valid. Things just got real shitty when L.A. came on and totally raped Detroit and we had to deal with the likes of the Guy Costas ( rest his soul ) and that crowd who was hell bent on re-making Motown in their own idealized images.
So maybe that makes both of us fools Mike. To have stayed long enough to see the company become corrupted by a crew of Hollywood hot shots. You were much smarter than I in that you bailed a good two years before I did. But you can't deny the good that came out of those studios when times were right and good Mike. You know it and I know it. And that is exactly why this web-site exists.

By the count (63.212.147.131 - 63.212.147.131) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 02:19 am:

HeyMike,kool story man,its to bad you had to get to the 1991 Toyota,that makes me wonder,maybe all these earthlings are right,it is no longer the 50's or 60's.Well,it is in my world...Man like be careful under that car ,and do use those jack stands,and please be on level and solid ground...Tourqe the pressure plate to 34ft.lbs.,or else that clutch will be through the floorboard and into you like schrapnel...What the hell is going on here?i hear something comming out of my crystal radio about a muntz color television ,WHAT?color TV,SHIT,there will probably be other new invention soon to replace the ovens and stoves we cook our TV dinners in.I hope it is'nt something ele.or microwave..I still love my Jiffy Pop Popcorn--(no pots no pans no bowls to foil,you got popcorn,salt,butter and oil,now make with the heat man.Well nice rappin with you Mike,i've got to go now,Soupy is on at 11.30pm,and i dont want to miss Charles Vecheswa,or Coladox.Latter man...Like,dont let your meatloaf. Steve The Count.

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.76.52 - 209.245.76.52) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:03 am:

I just got back from the restaurant at the bottom if the hill.

Looks like I blew it.

I'm sorry. I love the forum. Please don't hate me.

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.76.52 - 209.245.76.52) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:04 am:

I still prefer hamburger.

Mike

By John Lester (213.1.136.211 - 213.1.136.211) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 07:40 am:

Mike

I am gonna have to come in on this.. and since you are encouraging a response, you will surely get it from me! However firstly, put that drink down in case you spill it! (or worse, want to throw it at me!) lol

Ever since I was at school when Motown music took over my way of life, I have been put down by my school friends cos I was not a Beatles or beat group admirer. In my opinion (and my opinion ought to be as valid as the next person), Motown produced some of the finest music known to man and you only have to listen to the influence of YOUR own contributions to Motown for that.

IMHO, music is all about creating something that is appreciated and Detroit/Motown music is appreciated by the world over (ie "en masse"). Its fame extends far deeper than the name of the artists such as Edwin Starr, Martha Reeves, Velvelettes, Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Temps, Marvin Gaye, Miracles, Tops and the likes of HDH, Whitfield, my late great idol HANK COSBY, Ivy Jo or even Berry Gordy - it's now become known as a QUALITY BRAND - equivalent to a dictionary word that epitomises "TOP CLASS" and YOU were part of the reason for that. For example, please TELL US, just WHAT was it like when one of the prospective employers in your life looked over your CV and saw "worked at Motown" written down there. I can bet you he didn't say "NEXT"!!

Whether or not you think I am a fool for not liking and appreciating Bach or any other type of music, you must accept the fact that there are fans out in this world who simply worship the ground that people like yourself walk on, if only for the fact that you gave us something that we could attach ourselves to - to give us the power to enjoy our time on this earth.

If you are defending Bach, then I am gonna have to sit right alongside you defending Motown. So pour me a drink too and go easy on the ice cos I'm on a diet! LOL

My gawd, all a bit powerful for early on a Sunday morning!! Even for me!

By chris.freston@talk21.com (213.122.37.138 - 213.122.37.138) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 08:15 am:

Here here John. I believe the heyday singles are as valid as any other form of music. Pure undistorted sound was not the goal. Excitment was. IMHO Mr. Jamerson's baselines and technique are comparable to any virtuoso.

By john lester (213.1.136.54 - 213.1.136.54) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 09:08 am:

Thank you Chris

Pour yourself a drink too!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 09:37 am:

Mike

I too must stand up and defend the music of Motown. The very fact that we are here discussing music recorded nearly forty years ago and still appreciated today must say something for its staying power, and for its intrinsic "quality".

Pop music is by nature ephemeral, and most is disposable, once it has enjoyed its moment of popularity. However, some pop music can live on after its chart run is over, and still remain listenable and enjoyable. Motown is one such genre. In fact, how many other similar labels are actually classed as a "genre"?

I make no apology for enjoying the best of Motown in preference to a symphony or a piano concerto. To me, there is no hyperbole in talking about Motown "classics". This music has truly stood the test of time, and cannot be dismissed so lightly. It is simply too good to relegate to the musical dumpster, as the many reissues and new compilations prove.

By john lester (213.1.132.234 - 213.1.132.234) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 11:09 am:

Ritchie..pour yourself a drink too!

Plenty of room here for you AND MORE!

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.67.63 - 209.245.67.63) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 05:05 pm:

Dear Members of the Forum,

Yesterday I went at the truck, and the transmission is now sitting loose out on the floor. Those bolts around the upper part of the bell housing are murder to get out. Since the bell housing and transmission are not separate, the clearance between the floor pan and the top of the bell housing is very tight. Thank goodness the transmission has an aluminum case, so it is not very heavy. Now I have to take apart the clutch so I can take the flywheel to the machine shop to be resurfaced.

I just discovered that I have not been keeping up with paying my bills. The VISA bill is one day late. Now I have to call up and beg them to not charge me a stupid $30. fine for not getting the a payment to them by the due date. Of course, I will pay it in full, as I always do when I get around to paying my bills.

This obsession with the forum has got to go on hold until I can get caught up with a few things. As it is, all I have to get around on is my motorcycle. I have no cash, so I am going to go up to the bank and cash a paycheck so I will have some pocket money.

I'll get back to your letters just as soon as I can get out from under this mess.

Sorry about all those silly things I said. It was just the frustration of all these things that I have been letting go, plus, of course, three quarters of a gallon of 12.5% Burgundy wine on an empty stomach.

I enjoy popular music on occasion. I like to put it on when driving. Classical music is too distracting for driving. The forum is composed of people that are off the deep end over popular music. More power to Ya! I will continue to try to help you if I can.

Sincerely,

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 07:00 pm:

We'll be waiting for you Mike.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 10:04 pm:

Mike

Yes, we all have lives outside the Forum too! When you're ready to resume your reminiscences, we'll be here with more questions, queries and conversation :o)

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.239.12 - 63.208.239.12) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 02:54 am:

Hello Forum,

I paid all my bills except for that damn VISA. I didn't have "whatever it took" to call up and get that mess straight.

I went down to the garage and took the pressure plate bolts out. To my delight, I discovered that the face of the flywheel was hardly worn at all. Oh goody! Now I don't have to deal with unbolting the flywheel from the crankshaft, which is a major operation involving high torque bolts, difficulties with locking the crankshaft so it will not turn with the bolt torque, and the use of thread sealant "Lock-Tite" (sounds like an HDH record) which I would have to go out and purchase.

Next, I cleaned up the flywheel with brake cleaner spray. I noticed, after all the wear dust from the clutch disc was washed away, that only a few spots on the flywheel friction surface were polished. The rest of the surface still had the virgin (rather rough) surface turned at the factory. After a long consideration, I concluded that the clutch had always worked beautifully during the last 130,000. miles, so don't worry about it (the possible evils of a non-concentric condition.)

Next came the problem of pulling the idealistic (the classic is a sleeve, that seldom needs attention) ball bearing (Toyota,) the pilot bearing, out of the center of the crankshaft. I spent about a half-hour trying to pull it out with a "lever and hook" plan, and gave up. The book said to pack grease into the cavity behind the bearing and drive a close fitting shaft down the center of the bearing. The hydraulic pressure in the grease will force the bearing out very elegantly. I had shunned this approach because I had doubt that I could find a close fitting shaft (at my age, most bores are not so close fitting.) No pun intended.

Now I was desperate. I was ready to try anything. Low and behold, now that I could see the bearing (I had a new bearing in the Borg-Warner clutch rebuilding kit, but I didn't want to unwrap it because I wanted to protect it from dirt. What an idealistic fool: The clutch floods the vicinity of this bearing with nasty dust, and it is equipped with seals that protect it. At any rate, I looked around and discovered that the diameter of the bolts that hold the bell housing to the engine block made a beautiful fit down the center of the pilot bearing.

The hydraulic bearing removal trick work beautifully! I had grease all over my hands, but I was so thankful to get that bearing out. After I examined the old bearing, I realized that this was a light duty job for the bearing. I have no doubt that I could have left the old bearing in and it would have outlasted the truck.

Before I installed the pilot ball bearing that came with the kit, I checked the fit on the front of the transmission input-shaft. It was rather tight. I sanded the shaft with 300 grit wet or dry paper (dry, this time) until I got a nice firm push fit. I figured that this would save me a lot of trouble later.

The old throw-out bearing was also smooth as glass. For many years, even when folks had no clue about how to elegantly drive a stick shift, Chevrolet used a carbon block throw-out bearing rubbing on a machined plate at the center of the pressure plate assembly. They got away with that! This was because the old woman teachers and other assorted curmudgeons in the late 40's raced their engines so much to pull away, because they were too cheap to try GENERAL MOTORS HYDRAMATIC, and too stupid and lazy to learn how to "meet the clutch with the gas." There actually is such a thing as elegant driving technique.

Just as there is such a thing as elegant music.

You are supposed to sand the face of the flywheel that meets the driven disc. I went to work and spent a hour on my back lovingly roughing up the flywheel face with circular motions with 180 grit "wet or dry" paper, dipped in water (I used a Pepsi cup for the water.)

Next I cleaned up the entire flywheel with brake cleaner (a solvent that washes away grease, and break/clutch lining dust.)

Why do I post these details on your forum? Very simple: This is the mentality that walked into Hitsville in January, 1961, and this is the mentality that built the studio, and all the equipment. This is a normal middle class Detroit mentality during the period following the war, and unbroken until stupid management, and the labor unions, all at about the time I went to work at Motown (1961) drove SERIOUS INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITY out of Detroit.

The elite live in the ring around Detroit, today. Any work that can be done repetitively, with the hands, is farmed out to the "suckers:" These are the folks that live in countries like China, and all the other "friends of the United States of America."

When I was a boy, I grew up with men who did the work, with their own two hands. They were proud of what they accomplished, and they adjusted the life that they had so that they could afford what the work they could do was worth on the open market.

I built Motown in this way. Do it yourself. Berry encouraged me. This golden age lasted from 1961 until about 1967, when the pressures of big money, big business, and the temptations of other "technical lovers" drew him to California. In California, Berry allied himself with the late Guy Costa. Guy was the son of the brother of Don Costa, the successful arranger that had worked with Berry before Motown was established.

Guy was the exact "breath of fresh air" that Berry needed, engineering wise. I don't blame him for "having an affair." He was good to me, and it was time for him to explore new worlds in California.

I tried to help Guy, many times. Then, when he had power, her turned on me. I can see now how this happened. After all, I have been working in Hollywood for twenty-eight years.

I have never been worth a damn at applying myself in a situation where I could not get a clear answer that would make me feel that it made good sense to "go for it." I like to "go for it."

The trouble is that just as I am ready to "GO FOR IT," like a golfer taking a mighty drive, I hear a soft voice: "But don't spend too much money!"

Why do these ("Dilbert") voices only appear on the golf course: Because they don't have the decency to tell me on the job. I have had a couple of great supervisors: William E. Windsor, at QUAD-EIGHT, and Dennis R. Smykowski, at the Detroit TEKTRONIX SERVICE CENTER. They showed me that a better way was possible. I want to be pampered!

I feel that this presentation should be of great value to you Motown Fans in figuring out where my obsessions fit into the picture of your obsession.

Sincerely,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.123.103 - 63.210.123.103) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 02:09 pm:

Dear John,

Thank you for your letter of April 29,2002 - 09:44 PM. I am just a little perplexed by your letter. You seem to be making a point, but the reasoning is a little hard for me to follow.

I feel that distortion is a bad thing. The musicians go to great pains to create a beautiful musical sound, and then the recording engineer is supposed to be doing a good thing by overloading the recording system and adding a lot of discordant distortion products? Not in my book!

To use an analogy: Imagine that you are going out on a date with a beautiful woman. She is looking forward to a wonderful evening. She spends several hours taking a bubble bath, washing her hair, putting on her make up and perfume, and then dressing in beautiful clothes that she has selected, and paid for, with considerable pains in hope of being able to offer pleasing and elegant companionship.

When you pick her up at her door, you say "You are beautiful darling, but just one thing: I like um funky." You then take out some ripe limburger cheese and start rubbing it on her neck.

This vulgar picture expresses fairly well how I feel about distortion.

As far as having my attention held by high distortion in a recording, I can think of much more enjoyable ways to have my attention held then that.

I am in no way objecting to the kind of distortion associated with an artist like Jimmi Hendrix. This "distortion" is part of the sound that the artist created. It is possible that it is appropriate, if the music is about agony. Actually, if I want agony, I would prefer watching wrestling matches.

Continuing the analogy, if the lady wants to present herself as funky, and puts on the limburger herself, that is one thing. The recording engineer is supposed to make a clean recording, not mess with the music.

Of course, when "getting a hit" to make money, so you can afford any kind of lady that pleases your taste, is paramount, these high minded ideas tend to fall by the wayside in the desperate rush to manipulate the sound.

I may be old fashioned, but I still feel that distortion is undesirable.

Mike McLean

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 04:47 pm:

Eli here,
As music has progressed over the previous decades,
I myself harken to the bygone days of Motown and Philly International which I was a major part of.
I am not a nostalgist or an elitist nor do I dwell in the past, but many of these records were pure works of art , as far as I am concerned.
As Ralph had previously mentioned, The Still Waters album by the Tops was truly a gem.
There were many gems. Music is music whether it is Ravel or Robinson ,Wagner or Whitlield, Motzart or Motown, music is music and it should all be appreciated devoid of an elitist attitude!!

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 05:22 pm:

Mike LOVES Jazz too along with every other form of music. In fact I think a love for Jazz is what almost all of us had in common. Mike always challenged me to expand my horizons beyond classical music which was what I came in with.

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.236.189 - 63.208.236.189) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:35 am:

Dear Soulboy,

Thank you for your letter of April 30. 2002 - 02:26 PM. I appreciate your sentiments. It is refreshing to find someone who appreciates clean, transparent sound with low distortion. I can assure you that if Berry Gordy Jr. had been able to mix his music in the current technical environment, the sound of his classics would be far cleaner then that resulting from the playback of a vintage Motown 45 R.P.M. vinyl pressing.

By "current technical environment" I mean everything that is an influencing factor:

1. The average car sound system today has loudspeakers and power amplifiers that are far cleaner, with extended frequency range and much higher acoustic output, when compared to those in the 1960's.

2. Many car sound systems today are equipped with a CD player. This ultra high fidelity source is a far cry from AM radio, with the DJ playing a 45, which was standard operating procedure in the 60's.

3. Motown's slogan "The Sound of Young America" had a big basis in fact. The backbone of record sales was the youth market. The youth of today are still cruising around in their cars (to get out of their parent's house) just as in the old days, but now the tendency is to get a ticket for a loud sound system instead of a loud exhaust system.

I feel that if the Motown of 1964 were operating in today's situation, the basic lust to please the customer would have resulted in a Motown CD product with much greater fidelity, and wider dynamic range. There are some purists who feel that all that distortion is an integral part of the musical art of Motown. I feel that this is living in the past. I guess it boils down to a conflict between purists: The antique collecting purest, versus the high fidelity purest.

I was there when these "antiques" were being created. I know how these artists operated, and what they were trying to do (make money by getting hits - they didn't call it "Hitsville" for nothing.) The fidelity limitations were accepted as part of an overall compromise that fitted the times, and not as a special hue from an expensive and exotic pigment in the oil paint on the master's pallet. Of course, there ARE exceptions, like Jimmi Hendrex, and his guitar sounds. That kind of distortion is fine with me.

Mike McLean

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:16 pm:

Thanks Mike, i look for this 'clean' sort of quality in records , whatever the style or genre.I am total agreement with your views on distortion. in particular i think that many modern rock bands use distortion as a sort of masking device to cover up below standard performance. there been few individuals who can use the distortion itself as an art form, Hendrix was one of these.

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.133.80 - 63.212.133.80) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 06:15 am:

Dear Soulboy,

I wish I could offer an opinion (you know how I love my opinions) about the use of distortion as a masking device by todays rock bands.

Sadly, I have fallen into the habit of listening to classics of all kinds. I wouldn't even know where to start to keep up with "top ten" music today.

It is no help when you learn that Kirt Kobain and his suicide inspired this nut cake to bomb all those mail boxs.

Soulboy, you are my friend. You and I stand for the value of clear, natural, clean sound with some lifelike impact!

There are some views on this forum that stand for nostolgia and rose colored glasses. The funny thing is that these pink eyes have yet to wake up to "where they are at" with this obsession stuff.

I am ready to give em hell. I enjoy nostalgia, but to make it a life hobby, like devoteing your life to the hortaculture of the rose, when there are so many beautiful gardens to be walked through, seems like it needs a dose of cold water.

Imagine making a crossword puzzle out of each little fact, like who Nate Jennings (I hired him, and was his pal) was, and where did he end up! Why it's enough to piss off the Good Humor Man!

I think the current phrase is: "Get a life!"

Berry Gordy once said to me, and I quote: "Motown is a business, ......an ECONOMIC business, and we all should focus our efforts on contributing to the profits and success of the company."

This was after I, in a childish moment, gushed to him my utter rapture over "You'r All I Need To Get By" sung by Marven and Tammy, which was a current project, and not yet released.

I am greatful that I have you in my corner as I continue to attempt to express how it looks, for me, having been there, to behold the general scene at the forum, regarding the "ART" of Motown.

Sincerely,

Mike McLean

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 09:23 am:

Mike

Seeing that you and myself have very similar views on sound. could i just push my luck a bit, and ask you to tell me a bit about your memories of the musicians ie Funk brothers. I started a Funk brothers thread on this forum. I would be more than grateful for your perspective on this, either on this or the funk brothers thread.

soulboy

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 01:55 pm:

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED...PLEASE CONTINUE ON MIKE MCLEAN 4