By gags (195.92.168.166 - 195.92.168.166) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 03:30 pm: |
Hi Peeps, I am writimg to ask if anyone can help me with a college assignment I have. I have to record a song in the style of a famous producer/engineer. I have chosen the styles of Berry Gordy and his engineers. The song I will be trying to reproduce is 'Helpless' by Kim Weston.
I would be grateful for information on Microphones used and if they have an equivelent today. Instrumentation used or any production tips etc. you think I may need.
Yours thankfully
gags
By harryweinger (68.37.255.124 - 68.37.255.124) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 03:41 pm: |
Well, "HELPLESS" by Kim Weston was produced by Brian Holland and Lamont Dozier. They had a very offerent production style from Berry Gordy, who did produce a fair amount of songs himself - just not the one you've chosen.
By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 04:03 pm: |
May I say something about the Kim Weston and Four Tops versions? After hearing The Four Tops version for the best part of my adult life, I came across the Kim Weston version. I liked it, but it seemed 'flat', as though the dynamic range of her voice had lost something within the mix. I may be wrong, but am convinced there may be another version somewhere - said Carl shooting his foot off again.
What a great project though! Wish I was at college.
By gags (195.92.194.18 - 195.92.194.18) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 12:09 am: |
Hi peeps, thanks harryweinger for the info. obviously I need to stay at college for a while longer.
Can anyone help me with the kinds of mics they used in 'hitsville' around 1964/65 and if possible what would be their equivelent today. But if possible any production information would
be great..
gags
By Bradburger (172.180.65.199 - 172.180.65.199) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 01:01 am: |
It's interesting what you say about The Tops version Carl. Although I have to say I prefer the Kim Weston version of the song!
The version I'm refering to is the Mono single version.I have a stereo version on the Motown Dance party vol1 Cd and I think it may be a different take. Seems to lack something when compared to the mono.
Was it the stereo version you heard? It would be nice to hear alternate mixes of this song.
Maybe Harry Weinger will be able to make this happen!!
Gags. There are plenty of former Motown engineers who post on this board. Try asking the likes of Ed Wolfrum, Mike Mclean, Russ & Ralph Terrana and Bob Olhsson.I'm sure they'd be willing to help.
Cheers
Paul
By harryweinger (68.37.255.124 - 68.37.255.124) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 02:50 am: |
Gags - I think I may be able to help in one way: get the actual recording date. That will tell us whether it was a 3-track or 8-track recording. Maybe just maybe you can ask Lamont Dozier as well - although, as you may have surmised from this forum, the producers did not mess with the technical side. But he surely can recall the creative side of making that session "happen." I think if you slide your mouse over my name you can get my email address.
By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 10:13 am: |
Paul - you are probably right. The Kim Weston version is on 'tamla motown - big hits and hard to find classics vol 1-3'and its is stereo. I have noticed also that the mix seems dry with no reverb at all. And exactly 41 seconds in, there is a definite increase in the vocal audio level. It also seems the track has been prematurely ended. Just observations of course. Listening through my headphones this minute, I realise again the beauty of this wonderful music and should not criticise it, but it comes with the territory.
Harry � I have just taken delivery of �Tammi Terrell/The Essential Collection and the track �I gotta find a way to get you back� � Wow! And the David Ruffin/The Essential Collection and the track �What you gave me� is just pure magic. Ruffins voice is something else � it makes me tingle throughout! I hear the drums and they sound like a �different� set compared to usual Detroit Motown stuff. Could I stick my neck out and say this may have been recorded elsewhere in Detroit. The Bass sounds �Jamerson�, but the backing singers I do not recognise!
By Lowell (165.121.215.117 - 165.121.215.117) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 01:27 pm: |
test
By brianday@cwcom.net (212.137.221.117 - 212.137.221.117) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 02:33 pm: |
talking about sound and its output ,i was reading about the radio one road show which is owned and run by a well known jock,froggy .the set up is actually mono not stereo ,as stereo records distort at the higher volumes and mono gives you a wall of sound maybe thats why mono is a better deal on vinal?
By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 01:03 am: |
I don't think one can seperate the use of technology from its context. Matching the Motown style requires a large number of exceptional musicians combined with arrangers and producers who are experienced in this kind of ensemble recording. Berry, Brian and Lamont would not have produced the record that way if they had not had years of prior experience.
Technology is used to solve production problems. The production, the musicians, the arranger and the artist ALL produce the "sound" along with the engineers and equipment. Often the best engineering is the least.
By harryweinger (68.37.255.124 - 68.37.255.124) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 01:43 am: |
Bob - I second that emotion. Some our best reissues come from finding the best tape - and then don't mess with it, period.