By M.McLeanTech (63.208.240.129 - 63.208.240.129) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 09:04 am:

Hello, all you Soulful Detroit fans out there:

My name is Mike McLean. I held the position of Engineering Department Head at Motown Record Corporation, in Detroit, from summer, 1961 until sometime in 1970. I worked for Motown from January, 1961 until April, 1972. During most of this period, it was my responsibility to provide the physical equipment that was used to record Motown product.

Motown was set up like a bus company. The bus drivers were one group, and the department that provided the buses, and maintained them, was another. I was in charge of the latter area.

This suited me fine, because I was in love with classical music. Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Brahms, Richard Strauss, Stravinsky, and don't forget the Max Bruch violin concerto!

When I arrived on the Motown scene in January, 1961, it was musically overwhelming. Robert Bateman was involved in the production, writing, and recording, of some really fantastic music that made a profound impression on me. Ditto for Andre Williams!

The two recordings that made the most impression on me were "Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right" sung by Barrett Strong, and "For This I Thank You" sung by Gino Parks.

Later, I was very impressed by "Yesterday's Dreams" sung by Bobby Taylor.

Sammy Mack, Sonny Sanders, Popcorn Wylie,Cornell Blakely, the Hollands, Norman Whitfield, Etc.: all were around me like flowers in a meadow, every day, for years. James Jamerson and Benny Benny Benjamin were my "at work in the hall kidding around pals" for many years. I remember when Harry Balk brought in Del Shannon for a sesson. There is no end to it. However, if you want to be serious, I would rather talk on the technical level, where I have a reasonable degree of ability to respond on the basis that I know what I am talking about.

I was located in Detroit. When Berry Gordy Jr. moved to California, Mr. Guy Costa assumed leadership. I continued to work in Detroit. My very fine boss during this period was the one and only "man with a big cigar:" Mr. Harry Balk. What a wonderful man he was, and I guess, thank goodness, still is! We got together in Gibraltar, Michigan several times because we both had cabin cruisers docked at that location.

My outlook is technical. I ask that those of you who wish to discuss technical subjects please submit your thoughts.

From time to time, I will try to pepper this forum with some colorful stories from the past.

As I write this, I am listening to the Brahms Piano Concerto No.1 with Vladimir Ashkenazy, piano, and the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam conducted by Bernard Haitink (Decca/London 414 162-2 (CD, DDD, 1982). This is one of my very favorite recordings.

Considering the fact that I was on the scene everyday during that period, I am sure that I could answer many questions outside the technical area. However, I would be operating on a much less expert level. I spent most of my time trying to improve the equipment. I was just another outside observer, otherwise, at Motown.

Many fine people worked in my department over the years. Most have gone on to become much more important members of the technical establishment then have I. Still, I do all right. There are many positions for a "jack of all trades, but a master of none." Accordingly, I thrive.

If someone wants to ask non-technical questions, I will try to offer an answer. However, I do not intend to invent answers. If I don't know, then that's the end of it.

I await your communication.

Thank you, and God bless.

Mike McLean

By john lester (213.1.136.86 - 213.1.136.86) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 09:13 am:

What ........THE Mike McLean

No, can't be.......surely not...not just any Mike McLean...THE Mike McLean.......my my my

I am on my knees. I need to get my breath back!

Wowee....Mike McLean....this is unbelievable.

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.240.129 - 63.208.240.129) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 09:20 am:

It's me. Thank you for your kindness.

By john lester (213.1.136.86 - 213.1.136.86) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 09:30 am:

Mike ...

I got my breath back now

We have all heard so much about you....and although I am not the technical man here...I would dearly love you to talk about just everyday things that happened.

The history that you were such an integral part of, still needs to be told. Please help out the laymen (like myself) here!

It seems to me that in the early days, it was, as Smokey once said, if you weren't there on the day, you weren't on the record. In about 1963/4, that didn't seem to be the case cos overdubbing, punching in etc started coming into being. I always remember this fascinating interview with Sandy Wynns aka Edna Wright who talked about punching in vocals on Mary Well's My Guy...now that one goes back to March 1964 - so that is kind of early for that sort of thing. The echo chamber seemed to be on all fours by then too. Was it really the bathroom that was used as was written about in the early days - gawd help anyone that wanted to use it for its proper purpose!

How did the Beatles St Pepper album influence Motown's recording techniques.

As a point of interest, in January 1961, the Primettes signed with Motown.

By john lester (213.1.136.86 - 213.1.136.86) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 09:32 am:

Primettes changing their name to the Supremes of course

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 09:46 am:

Mike

Welcome to the Forum. We're absolutely thrilled you could join us!

As a one-time studio engineer myself, I'm delighted to see you on the Forum, and have a couple of basic questions to begin with. I understand that Hitsville upgraded to 8-track in late 1964, and that you designed the machine, and the mixing console, which were built in-house from your plans. Is this correct?

Also, is it true that monitoring from the previous 3-track machines was done on 3 speakers, and it was your idea to monitor and mix on only two, when upgrading to 8-track?

That'll do for starters - looking fwd to your response! Thanks ;o)

By M.McLeanTech (63.209.93.9 - 63.209.93.9) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:00 am:

Thank you John,

Please try to not make so many points at once. I will only respond this time to the first (unless I get carried away.) Put yourself in my place.

Regarding overdubbing: The fact is that more and more control over the recorded performance was the very backbone of Motown policy. Starting with Berry Gordy Jr. from day one, the focus was on adjusting the recording to maximize the possibility of a "hit." The idea that punching in was a degrading factor at Motown is about like saying that washing the teats at a dairy farm was degrading to the dignity of a cow.

I know pleanty about the echo chambers, but I don't know what you mean by "all fours."

When I arrived, the echo chamber was alive and well in the attic of the Hitsville building.

Sgt. Pepper was very influencial. Brian Holland was so impressed with "A Day In the Life", that he insisted that I find something that could make such a sound.

The only thing I could think of was the Moog synthisiser. This was before "Switched On Bach!"

Brian Holland would not fly. (Can you blame him?) Lawrence T. Horn set up a lemo for Brian, Lawrence, and I to drive over to Trumansburg, New York, to visit Robert A. Moog, & Associates so that we could consider purchasing a System Three.

We purchased the Moog System Three, complete with the Sequencer unit, which was at the very "cutting edge."

Nothing at all ever came of this purchase. It was a dead loss.

So much for Sargent Pepper's influance.

Mike

By M.McLeanTech (63.209.93.9 - 63.209.93.9) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:21 am:

Dear Richie,

One of the first lessons that we learned (and at the time, we felt that we had seen God) was that the monitor should be a mix of the individual tracks.

When I first was taken to New York by Berry Gordy Jr. to Bell Sound, the practice was to feed the three multi-tracks to three Altec 605-A monitors. This provided a very impressive phony stereo effect. I installed similer speakers at Motown, but this concept proved to be a sad example of foolishness. Bell sound was trying to impress a client. Motown was trying to mix hits, and wanted a "true sound."

Even with eight track, mono monitoring was locked into our approach to a degree that would astonish a person with an audiophile background.

Ten years later, I entered the Motion Picture Sound field. It is called a "composite," which consists of an equal contribution of dialog, music, and effects. When these are combined from a three track magnetic film (or optical, before 1948) with an equal mix, they become a composite, which becomes the soundtrack.

We were reinventing the wheel when we discovered how little we knew about recording.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.1.189.111 - 213.1.189.111) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:30 am:

mike, it is a pleasure to have you on the forum.

i hope you get as much fun participating as we all do.

my main task is buildings photographer!

do you recall any musical action in a building behind no.2648? someone once suggested a garage was used in the early days in the lane out the back.

By M.McLeanTech (63.209.93.9 - 63.209.93.9) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:35 am:

Dear David,

The only thing that happened behind Hitsville that was different than accepted history was that Motown rented some space directly behind 2648, and the studio, to provide parking spaces. That's it, and I know what I am talking about. I was there everyday.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.1.189.111 - 213.1.189.111) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:40 am:

thanks mike. that clears that one up.

i took about 10 photos of that lane!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:41 am:

Mike

Thank you for your detailed reply to the "three speakers" question. I was not aware of the Bell Sound connection, so I'm grateful for the additional background.

By M.McLeanTech (63.209.93.9 - 63.209.93.9) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 10:51 am:

Thank you. I am still here eating a sandwich with a beer. Any more?

By MikeTech (63.209.93.9 - 63.209.93.9) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 11:14 am:

David,

I remember what was in that lane (the parking lot) before it was paved over and marked with painted parking spaces:

There was a horrible gray gloomy shack of a house that was being lived in by some reclusive family that came on like they lived in the Ozarks. They never bothered me, when I did my thing, and I saw no reason to direct my attention to them.

Now that I think of it, at the time, I remember feeling warm toward that family, and there were occasional moments where I would exchange friendly eye contact with the "old witch" (wife, I suppose) that would appear in her dirty old ragged house dress.

That's about all I can remember about that subject.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 01:30 pm:

Mike,
Here's a technical question. How the hell are you pal? It's been a few years. Remember when you tried to fix me up with your girlfriend's sister? We all went out together and ended up at some club to see the group My Friends. Your intentions were great Mike, but she didn't like me all that much. It's good to see you here Mike and I look forward to talking with you.
Ralph Terrana

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 01:33 pm:

Mike,
You mention Ashkenazy. As a piano tuner, I have tuned for him a number of times and replaced a set of bass strings on a used Steinway that he had purchased for a home he once had here in Monterey. He is quite a guy.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 01:40 pm:

Hi Mike!

Somebody or other told me that BG had a multi-million dollar life insurance policy on Brian Holland's life that wouldn't cover flying so the company hired a limo for any trips he wanted to take.

It's great to be reading you here.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 02:10 pm:

Hi Mike!

Great to be able to ask you questions on a technical level.

Being in your position, would that mean sales reps from all the supplier companies would have to come through you with their sales pitch for products they hoped to sell Motown? Presumably it would be like bees around a honey pot? What were the persuasions to purchase say, Ampex tape stock rather than �another�. To be honest, I have no idea how many other brand names would have been about in the mid sixties, but I am sure they would be knocking on your door. What I do know is that in television terms, a Betacam SP machine loves Fuji tape stock because it is high quality oxide and reliable, but, it wears the heads out quicker, so was not the choice of some television companies!

When a can of tape is opened today, is its condition because of the attention to detail all those years back, through the whole process of purchase/recording correct storage?

Thank you Mike � it is great to have you here.

Carl Dixon

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.132 - 209.245.64.132) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 05:57 pm:

Ralph,

I figured that it would not be long before the cat was out of the bag. Several weeks ago, I ran across your offering on the web sight about the ruins of Detroit, and did some research on the web. It was not very difficult to find out exactly where you live, and your phone number. I have been meaning to call you and give you a big surprise. It's too late now. I want to drop by and buy you lunch some time. The fun we will have. If we had nothing more in common then our love for Harry Balk, we could talk all day!

That girl Carol that I fixed you up with married a blue collar tough guy and had several kids. She had a horrible time, and divorced him. She would have been far better off with you, even with the noise of the piano tuning.

Wow! You tuned pianos for Vladimir Ashkenazy! I am just crazy about his performances! He may not be a musical Bugatti (like Walter Gieseking) but he sure is one fine Lexus. This puts you and I in the same class: In 1954, in Ann Arbor, Michigan, I actually shook hands with the English composer Ralph Vaughan Williams! That was the thrill of a lifetime. To touch a God....

Speaking of that sort of thing, I once spent about fifteen minutes chatting with the actress Ann-Margaret ("By By Birdie")at the parking lot behind TODD-AO in Hollywood, where I was working at the time. She is the sweetest, kindest, most decent person that I ever met from the "Hollywood famous" source pool.

Have you seen the book "The Steinway Saga" by Donald W. Fostle? Did you know that he used to work for me at Motown? He also wrote a two part article about me in the November and December, 1997 issues of AUDIO magazine.

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.132 - 209.245.64.132) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 06:07 pm:

Bob,

Another great voice from the past! O L H, S S O N!

Know Bob Olhsson? I hired him! How is your wonderful wife? She has more intelligence and charm then Carter's got little pills! (As Don Boehret would say.)

The impression that I got from Lawrence Horn was that Brian Holland feared flying. I have never heard of this insurance policy matter. It seems to lack credibility, when you consider the fact that air travel was the mode of choice for all elete people during that period. The statistics would make an insurance company much prefer flying to chugging down an old road at night in a limo.

Thank you for your kind words.

By Phillysoulman (170.115.179.106 - 170.115.179.106) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 06:22 pm:

Hi Mike,
First and formost I am a true afficianado of all things Motown and have ben from day one. I have many friends and acquaintances who have been artists and /or worked there in some capacity and they all have raved about your technical wizardry.
I am a product of the Philly sound empire being a producer/writer /engineer associated with many hit recordings.
I have a friend , Tony Bongiovi, the former owner of PowerStation in NYC who claims that he once was a Motown enginer. I beg to differ.
He showed me a bunch of equalizers that he claimed he got from Motown.They had a Motown stamp on the back plate. Could this be so andhow could he have gotten them??

By john lester (213.1.131.66 - 213.1.131.66) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 06:23 pm:

Mike

Thanks for your response..and I appreciate all your explanations in a style which I can understand!

Who was the person mostly leading you to progress - was it the producers or Berry Gordy himself.

Norman Whitfield would have been the new kid on the block at that time, what do you recall about him?

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.132 - 209.245.64.132) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 06:41 pm:

Dear Carl,

Thank you for your very interesting questions, and your kind words.

You really hit a couple of nerves! I work everyday with SONY BETACAM SP, AND DIGITAL BETACAM machines. Most of what I do now days is make videotape transfers that are used by various people during the production process for Warner Bros. cartoons. Here are my findings:

1. Fuji seems to make the best quality blank videocassettes on the market. We first noticed this on the VHS videocassettes, and we have come to demand Fuji for all. There never seems to be a defect of any kind with Fuji. On the other hand, we have clients who demand Sony, or other brands. Go figure.

2. SONY BETACAM SP machines seem to have heads that wear forever. Your remark that Fuji wears out BETACAM SP heads faster then other brands struck me about the same as if you said that damp wind wears out the windows of a sky scraper faster then dry wind. We have six SP machines at the location where I work, and we have never replaced any heads on any of them.

3. SONY DIGITAL BETACAM machines are another story. We have two recorders, and one player. We have needed to replace two video head assemblys so far. They seem to last about four years. As far as getting a handle on the possibility that one brand of tape wears faster, this is not a possibility for us because we reuse tapes, and we have every brand you can imagine floating around in the reuse loop.

At Motown, we were devoted to 3M tape. We started out with 111, then moved up to 201, and so on. I like to stick with a good thing. 3M always seemed to be working hard to improve their product, so it was easy to just be loyal.

That was 40 years ago. Today, I am afraid that 3M is not a brand of tape that I would consider, as compared to the high quality of tapes like Fuji. We had a lot of trouble with 3M DAT tapes a few years back, and in general, I have not felt that they were even in the quality ball game, as far as cassettes of all kinds were concerned.

One brand that I have long held in high esteem is TDK. I stick to them like glue for CD-R blanks.

Regarding the honey pot: There is no question that salesmen flocked around me all the time. I became accustomed to it, and took it for granted.

When I left Motown, I was astonished to find that most of these very same salesmen would snub me. It was a very painful lesson that hit me very hard. It's all part of paying your dues and growing up. One of these days, I'm going to have to try out this "growing up" bit. It might be fun.

Thanks again for your stimulating questions.

By Eli (170.115.179.106 - 170.115.179.106) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 06:50 pm:

Any comment on the Tony Bongiovi query and the eq's Mike??

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.132 - 209.245.64.132) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 07:04 pm:

Dear Phillysoulman,

Thank you for your kind words. It is good for my tired old ego to hear that people speak of me in that way.

I remember Tony Bongiovi well. He created a sensation when Lawrence Horn first discovered him. He was brilliant, and a very nice fellow. He did indeed work at Motown as a recording engineer, but it seems to me that it was for a shorter period then usual.

I assume that Tony was able to purchase some of the "Motown Graphic" equalizers that we built. A total of 38 of these units were built. I designed it.

The circuit was a clone of the Langavin/Altec graphic equalizer developed by Art Davis. It had seven frequencies, with plus/minus 8 dB in 1 dB steps. This unit was sold as a passive unit with 16 dB insertion loss in an unbalanced 600 Ohm circuit. I added a gain control in the same format (plus/minus 8 dB in 1 dB steps), an in/out switch, and a line amplifier with input and output isolation transformers. In the out position of the in/out switch, the package had unity gain.

The most interesting thing was the very heavy duty construction. We used an 1/8 inch thick chassis, with a 1/4 inch thick front panel. The switchs were true military quality, made by Shallcross. That thing was literally built like a tank. At the time, I was sick and tired of problems with flimsy equipment, and I went off the deep end.

After I left Motown, the new engineering managment had new ideas. Much of the older equipment was sold. I assume that this is how Tony picked up these units.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 07:16 pm:

Mike,
The one time you REALLY did surprise me is when you shaved your head bald and put on wire frame glasses. I walked right past you in the hallway of the Donavin building, got about ten feet further and then a light went off in my head. I turned to look back at you and you were laughing your ass off at me.

Yeah, I couldn't figure why Carol didn't like me. Well I appreciated your efforts at playing cupid.I remember when we stopped in to see My Friends, you were impressed with Dave Kiswiney, the bass player. You compared him to Jamerson which was quite a compliment. I have sent David a couple of Golden World pics in which Dave is in one of them. David will be posting these pics sometime in the near future.

Speaking of Don Boehret...do you ever hear from him?

Ashkenazy was a gas to work for. So easy to please and so talented. Before the break-up of the former Soviet Union, I was tuning for one of his performances in Carmel California. Behind the Steinway D was a series of flags from various countries. He was complaining to me that the piano had a buzz in it. I went looking for it and found the Canadian flag to be picking up a sympathetic frequency and the pole was buzzing in it slot. I mentioned to Vladimir that at least it wasn't the flag of the Soviet Union that was buzzing. He said..." Oh no...that one trembles ".

Mike...I look frward to talking to you sometime soon.
Ralph

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.64.132 - 209.245.64.132) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 07:22 pm:

Dear John,

Thank you. I have always taken pride in my ability to eschew obfuscation when discussing a technical subject.

Berry Gordy Jr. was the man who invested more faith and money into providing me with the freedom to "do my thing" then anyone else. However, I was helped by many, many people.

Another man who helped me far beyond the call of duty was Stephen F. Temmer, founder of Gotham Audio Corporation in New York City. For many years they were the exclusive NEUMANN Rep. in the U.S.A.

Norman Whitfield and I used to have quite a relationship in the very early days. He wore his hair very short. He approached me regarding the radio in some old Buick that he and I think Popcorn Wylie, had. He said that it needed a "vibrator tube."

A vibrator was a mechanical device that plugged in to a socket, like a tube, but it was not a tube. I told Norman that it was improper to call it a "vibrator tube," and that it should be referred to as a "vibrator."

Off we went: Norman said that he had heard that it was a vibrator tube. I knew full well what it was properly called, but we ended up carrying on a mock argument, for fun, for months.

Another funny deal along this nomenclature line was the time that the equipment broke down. A lady from managment urgently inquired as to my progress in fixing the problem. I told her that there seemed to be a short in the wiring. She ran out of the room and I could hear her yell up the stairs "Mike McLean says that there's a shortage in the equipment!"

I broke down laughing so badly that it took me ten minutes longer to find the problem then it otherwise would have.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 08:31 pm:

Mike...it NEVER took you 10 minutes to find any problem.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 08:37 pm:

For example....One time the disc lathe room was down with a problem. The technical crew was wrestling with it all morning and finally out of exaspration you came barging through the door and announced " TIME ME ". Which actually meant that they should watch the second hand of the clock, because you did solve the problem in a matter of seconds.

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 11:01 pm:

Thank you Mike for that perfect answer to the tape stock question!

It is a thing with me since entering the television business. Stock problems cropped up all the time, whether dubbing commercials or programmes. Even I remember 1" stuff that would have only been recorded on once for it entire life. I even remember checking for dropouts on Betacam SP stock and binning it, if it did not pass the test. These days it is a different story. The strangest thing ever happened on some BASF 5min-tape stock used for commercials I was dubbing. Whilst in standard playback, with or without dt heads, there was a strange patterning throughout the recordings similar to moiré patterning. On freezing the picture,it would disappear! I singled the stock out and kept it aside. A week or so later, the top men from the BASF visited our station and I showed them the problem. The same commercial on Sony, Fuji was fine, but their stock had this patterning. They took some tapes back to Germany for testing. The answer that I heard weeks later was a batch of 5min-tape stock had a technical fault and they called it a 'velocity error'. It had something to do with the pinch roller slipping on the tape as it moved around the tape transport system, which created this patterning!

I spent 8 years on Betacam SP and a year or so on the digital format, before moving into another technical area completely - with no moving parts!! I was always amazed at the NTSC stuff we received here.It was on Betacam, not SP and it was always a training session to explain to the junior guys how that format had only 2 audio tracks and that SP had 4 and indeed where the other 2 were hidden! As for heads wearing out,our station has machines that are sometimes in record or playback for as long as 18 hours a day. I think that is why we went through so many heads. As for the confidence heads, they were left until they fell to pieces,but what a great invention - watching what you have just recorded almost instantly, just incase there was a head clog. And the surprise would be if it was on the confidence head itself and you had accidentaly stopped to tape to check!!!

Cheers

Carl

By acoolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 11:09 am:

Mike,
It's wonderful to see you contributing to this forum and many thanks for offering to participate.
In your initial post you wrote about classical music and I wonder if you were listening to this when you first started working at Hitsville? Symhony of Sorrowful Songs Op. 39 by Henryk Gorecki is one of my favorites.
I had the pleasure of meeting Robert Bateman last year and he mentioned an engineer named Ron - he was assembling the first board at Motown (Fairchild sp?). I guess this was before your arrival as Robert told me how he watched Ron, and then simply copied what he had been doing. Ron was soon out of a job.
Robert also mentioned your arrival and his reluctance to accept the changes that you wanted to implement; he was quite content with 2 tracks and didn't see the need for any more. I gather you had some heated discussions about this! Things must have been pretty basic - he told me about building a mike-mixer out of a cigar box! Did you ever see it?

Graham

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.135.20 - 63.212.135.20) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 05:29 pm:

Ralph,

I can see that I have about as much chance of establishing my image with this forum as a dignified, serious man of wisdom, as I do of flying to the moon by flapping my arms up and down. Oh well. The hee-haw that men do lives after them, but the nit picking precision is oft interred with their bones. From time to time over the course of my life, I have shaved my head. First, I grow long hair to save money at the barbershop, then I finally get fed up with the messy hair and shave it off.

I had forgotten about that moment with you in the hall, but during that same shave, I had another great moment with Floyd, who was the general maintenance custodian of the Donavon Building ("Motown Center"). He was waiting at the elevators when I walked up and joined him. He glanced at me and looked away. Clearly he did not recognize me.

It should be pointed out that before that shave job, I had hair down to my shoulders, and a long beard. In other words, the same hair style as the classic picture of Christ that you see hanging on the wall in a devout Christian home.

I hesitated for a few seconds, and then said casually: "Hi Floyd." His face snapped toward me with a start, and he took another hard look. He then literally dropped to one knee and bent over laughing in convulsions. He was great!

Funny that you mentioned the shaved head. About two months ago I shaved it again, just before my wife died of cancer: about a week after our first wedding anniversary. She felt funny because the chemotherapy had caused all her hair to fall out, and I thought she would feel better if I kept her company. My hair is about an inch long right now.

Carol didn't like you because she could sense that you were way over her head. She wanted some dumb bell, and she got him, much to her later regret. I married her sister Susan, and we were together for seventeen years, until we divorced in 1990. The great love of my life was my third wife Helen. While Sue was 10 years younger then me, Helen was 25 years older, born in 1915: The same year as Anthony Quinn, Orson Wells, Edmond O'Brian, Frank Sinatra, and a couple of years before Betty Grable and Harry James. She was the greatest! I only knew her for about four years, but what wonderful times we had.

We drove her Mercury Cougar over to Detroit and I took her to the Motown Museum. I introduced her to Mrs. Edwards, who has always been very kind to me whenever I visit. As I little joke, I got Mrs. Edwards aside and told her that I had long felt attracted to her (Mrs. Edwards), but that I had never done anything about it because I felt that she was a little too young for me. Always proper and poised, she indicated her understanding with a slight twinkle in her eye.

I can't remember anything about your friend Dave Kiswiney. I draw a total blank.

The last time I saw Don Boehret was in 1988. He had found a new wife and started a new family. He seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. I have not been able to get a lead on him since I started using the Internet.

That is a wonderful story about Ashkenazy and the flags. First rate!

Thank you for your kind words about my ability to repair things quickly. I remember that problem in the disc lathe room, to which you referred. It was caused by a hairline crack around the base of a vacuum tube in the lead screw drive motor brake control amplifier. In this system, a torque motor is held back by an electromagnetic eddy current brake. It really was very simple: The lead screw was not turning at the proper speed. I took a look at the amplifier and saw that one tube was not glowing. When I tried to pull the tube from the socket, the glass envelope came off in my hand, leaving the rest of the tube still in the socket.

The key to the whole matter was that I knew which chassis was the one that housed this amplifier. The rest of the fellows were not familiar enough with the NEUMANN lathe to know where to look.

Naturally, being the showoff that I am, I had to "ham it up!" It took me many years to learn to control my ego even a little bit. The studios in Hollywood were a great help: By the time a film crew is finished putting up with the stars and the director, they are ready to eat a little wimp like me for lunch.

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 05:50 pm:

Hi Mike,

Did you have any "placebo" gadgets that did nothing but make producers think that that thay did??
In Philly I devised a gizmo that I dubbed the "Electronic Scrotum", because some of the so called "producers" from other cities who wanted the Philly Sound, would sometime complain about not having enough balls. So I got an old rotary knob and attached it to a "vintage" looking faceplate with wires that ran under the console to nowhere in particular. I placed it under a smoked plexiglas sliding panel.
So when they yelled "more bals, more balls"
the drawer magically opened and with each click of the knob they would say "now that's the Philly sound"!!!!

Also,what were the components of the board in studio A ??

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:24 pm:

I enjoyed Mike's e-mail so much that I asked him if I could show it to the forum. He very kindly agreed. So here it is :

Dear David,

I very much enjoyed your gallery of items on your web sight. That picture of Fortune Records took the cake. I have a mint 45 of "Mind Over Matter" sung by Nolan Strong that I purchased when it was a current hit. I take very good care of my records.

From January, 1961 until April, 1972, I held the position, in Detroit, of Technical Engineering Department Head at Motown Record Corp. When I arrived on the Motown scene, there was only the "Hitsville" building, Berry Gordy Jr. was living with his wife Raynoma upstairs, and Diane (later Diana) Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard were coming around after school to hang out in hope of cutting a record. "Shop Around" with The Miracles was rising on the charts.

I took Martha Reeves out on a date in my 1955 Jaguar XK-140MC roadster three years before she made it big with "Dancing In The Street." We went to see a film first run: "Exodus" starring Paul Newman.

Berry Gordy Jr. and I went on a "double-date" in his brand new 1961 Cadillac. We went to see, first run, the film "Two Woman" starring Sophia Loren.

Berry made it my responsibility to upgrade, expand, and maintain the technical aspect of the Hitsville Sound studio. At that time, an Ampex 1/2 inch three track recorder cost $5,000. This was considered prohibitive at the time, so I designed and built a "home brew" machine in that format for $1,500.

The first time that this home brew machine was used was quite a day. Berry had scheduled a big string session at United Sound. On the same afternoon, Robert Bateman wanted to do a session at the Hitsville studio, which had just been reworked with the new machine.

Berry asked me if the machine was working properly. I said it was. He then insisted that I come along to United to watch his session, so I could learn more about how things were done "big time."

I watched Berry record "Jamie" with Eddie Holland, and "I Don't Want To Take a Chance" with Mary Wells, that afternoon.

The home brew machine worked fine, and the first thing ever recorded on it was "Please Mr. Postman" with the Marvelettes, that same afternoon.

Have you heard of AUDIO magazine. It is out of business now, but from 1947 until about 2000, it was a respected publication about sound recording and reproduction, published in New York City. A two part article about me: "The AUDIO Interview - Mike McLean - Master of the Motown Sound," by Don Fostle, was published in the November and December, 1997 issues. Perhaps you can look this up at the library.

I got a kick out of your picture of Popcorn Wylie's house. I knew him well. He was a very nice fellow. Robert Bateman (look him up with www.google.com) was still alive a couple of years ago, and we got together. He told me that Popcorn was still alive, and hanging around the Detroit area, as was Barrett Strong.

Jim Siracuse of United Sound, was very nice to me. He was a very clever fellow. He built his own 35 MM magnetic film transport from scratch. I was very impressed by this accomplishment, which was much more difficult then building a 1/2 inch tape transport, as I had done for Motown (the home brew three track.) Did you know that Joe, his son, who was the top mixer at United Sound, suffered a horrible tragedy when most of his family (wife and children) were wiped out by a fire in his home? Joe was not at home at the time of the fire. It was horrible.

Later we built a 1 inch eight track home brew recorder. The last of the three track home brew recordings was "Where Did Our Love Go" with the Supremes. All the rest of famous Supremes string of hits (such as "Baby Love," "Come See About Me," "I Hear a Symphony," Etc.) were all recorded on the home brew eight track. There is a picture of the eight track machine in the AUDIO magazine article.

I got a kick out of your picture of the old Golden World Studio building on West Davison Avenue. When Berry bought out Ed Wingate, we did a total rebuild on the control room equipment. At that time, 2 inch sixteen track was the latest sensation, and we purchased a couple of Ampex MM-1000 machines and installed them at Hitsville, and at the "DAF" (Davison Avenue Facility) as we used to call it. I have some pictures of that installation, taken right after we finished it, on the occasion of a much honored visit by my guest, Mr. Peter Birkowitz, the Director of Group Recording Management (a position similar to mine at Motown) at DGG (Deutsche Grammophon) at that time (1968).

The DAF was on the north side of West Davision Avenue, and right next door, on the West side (to the left, as you stood looking at the front door of the DAF) was a unique restaurant that served unusual hamburgers: They had chopped onions and other spices mixed into the ground beef. Further, the meat was formed into a hot dog shape and served in a hot dog bun. Finally, the meat was cooked by steaming. This place had been around since the late 1930's, and was built in the classic 40's style, with a very long U shaped counter wrapped around the cooking and fountain equipment. They always were very busy. I was born in 1940, and when I was a kid in the late 40's, my parents would occasionally stop at this restaurant for a bite to eat. I loved those burgers! During the 50's when I was a teenager, we no more dropped by the restaurant, and it became but a fond memory. When I became involved with rebuilding the DAF, I rediscovered this place, utterly unchanged, and still doing big business, to my utter delight. I had many of those wonderful burgers for lunch during the period from 1967 through 72. The place was always sparkling clean and very efficient.

When you look at the picture of the DAF on your web sight it looks like the building, in which this restaurant was located, has been torn down. I know that it must be very difficult for you (assuming that you took that picture in that bleak setting) to imagine such an outstanding restaurant functioning so beautifully on that location. Take my word: It was wonderful!

You mentioned Ed Wolfrum on your web sight. I hired him. Another engineer that I hired (to my regret) was Lawrence T. Horn. Look him up with www.google.com to see why I regret it. Two dead people would be alive today if I had passed him over.

I knew Ralph and Russ Terrana quite well. Ralph is living in Seaside, California, near Carmel, on the Monterey Peninsula. I remember when Ralph decided to take up piano tuning because he was fed up with pressure of running a studio. I have not seen him since 1970. One of these days I'm going to call him and give him a big surprise. The last time I saw Russ was in early 1975, just after I moved to California.

My great grandfather was the Mayor of Detroit in 1858. His name was John Patton. His daughter Sarah was my Dad's Mom. You can get some hits on John Patton with www.google.com. My father was a bachelor until he was 50, and I was born when he was 52. My Dad told me of sitting on the porch of the family home when he was 14, in 1902, and seeing the first "horseless carriage" come chugging up the street. It's hard to imagine such an event today. In those days, Detroit was a quaint little resort town where people from Chicago would go to get away from the pressure of the city. At that time, Grand Blvd. (East and West of Woodward) was the city limit of Detroit. Woodward Avenue was paved only up to Grand Blvd, and became a dirt road from that point North. My father was raised in an upper middle class home located on the Northeast corner of Woodward and East Grand Blvd. (A twenty minute walk from the Motown Museum) It was an all day affair to take the horse and buggy up to visit friends in Highland Park.

Today, I live in Burbank, California, and work at Warner Bros. Animation, where we make Bugs Bunny, Etc. cartoons. I do work similar (technical) to the work that I did at Motown. In those days, tape was everything. Now it is film and videocassettes, not to mention hard disc.

If you ever are in the Los Angeles area, let me know so we can have a good bull session and I can show you around.

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:32 pm:

We actually nodded hello to one another in the hall that day Mike. I just didn't realize I was saying hello to you.

Believe me Mike, your reputuation is in tact. however I think it's important that the good people of this forum know you did have a zany side. It's part of what always fascinated me about you. All these smarts and fun to be around as well.

One of your greatest stories to me was your dream to build the ultimate sound presentation system in your basement to humble the reps that were always shooting at you. Do you remember what I'm talking about? How after you would totally blow a reps mind with this super sonic system ( or as we refered to at Motown with a term coined by you and Boheret..." The hot set-up ") and after the presentation, you would turn to the guy, who by now has had his mind completely blown by your sound presentation, and say..." So you want to discuss sound equipment? ".

Mrs Edwards is a real sweetheart. She was always so kind to me. Last time I was in Detroit and stopped in at Studio A, I went over to her office but she wasn't in that day. The security gaurd let me use a phone to call her when I told him who I was, but she wasn't at home.

Mike. are you in L.A.?

That night that we went out you were on the dance floor having a great time. When you came back to the table you mentioned to me how good the bass player was. I brought him over and introduced him to you.

So I was over carols's head huh? Story of my life Mike.
Talk to you soon.
Ralph

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:36 pm:

Mike,
I just re-read one of your letters. I'm sorry you lost your wife Mike. You have my deepest condolences.

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:42 pm:

Mike, you are the only person alive with recollection better that my own!!!
Amazing stuff!!

By phillysoulman (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:44 pm:

I only wish that Sigma could have had a clone of you back in the day!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 07:43 pm:

Mike

I think I speak for all of us here when I say how much your detailed and informative postings are appreciated. I'm very grateful to you for all the technical minutiae, detail which is vital yet normally unreported.

In addition, please may I express my condolences to you on your loss. We may joke and occasionally tease, but we do have immense respect for the esteemed visitors who spare their time and share their memories with us.

Your reputation and achievements are legendary, and any humorous anecdotes we hear do not lessen our admiration, but simply add to your mystique.

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.246.176 - 63.208.246.176) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 04:43 am:

Here is the story of the design of the "Motown Five Channel Guitar Direct Amplifier."

We felt that we should have a high fidelity, high performance preamp between the guitar and the line input of the console mixer position. The term "preamp" is short for "preliminary amplifier."

A preamp is tailored, at its input, to accommodate the unique characteristics of the source (be it a phono cartridge, a dynamic microphone, a condenser microphone capsule, a magnetic reproduce head, a photo cell in an optical sound reproducer, or an electric guitar.)

The output of a preamp is tailored to provide professional "line level" characteristics as follows:

Output level: +4 dBu (4 dB above 0.775 Volt, R.M.S. [the voltage required to dissipate 0.001 Watt in a 600 Ohm load resistor] which is 1.228 Volts, R.M.S.: [the level that will cause a standard VU meter to read "0" on the scale with a steady sine wave tone.])

Output configuration: Balanced and floating output source (free of ground: usually a transformer secondary winding.)

Current capability: Able to drive a 300 Ohm load (In case the recording engineer doubles up the loading when patching, it is better to provide for full performance with a 300 Ohm load, without overload distortion.

Headroom: 23 dB of headroom before clipping, which means that the amplifier would clip at an output level of +27 dBu.

We decided that five such preamp channels (five guitars) would be sufficient to meet all practical needs.

In addition, a monitor mixer was required to mix together the five preamp outputs so that the resulting modulation could be fed to a power amplifier and speaker so that the musicians could hear themselves.

The original monitor system that was in use at Motown when I arrived in 1961 consisted of two Altec Lansing type 605-A "Duplex" coaxial speakers which were a fifteen inch low frequency unit with a separate compression driver with a 4 by 2 multicell horn mounted in the center. These speakers were capable of very high sound levels without being damaged.

We had replaced these speakers with other units that were supposed to be an improvement, and we had the two of them sitting in the store room. The musician's guitar monitor seemed like an ideal application for one of these speakers. Further we had a lovely McIntosh type MC-30 mono 30 Watt power amplifier sitting in the store room.

The combination of this amplifier and speaker promised to provide very reliable and appropriate monitoring for the musician. This proved to be true in practice. We built an infinite baffle (sealed box) cabinet for the 605-A, which would take the place of all the old clunker, humming, Fender amplifiers that the musicians used to drag in. Space was at a premium in the old Hitsville studio, and elimination of all those Fender amps and the microphones, with stands, to pick up the sound, was a big advantage.

At first, the tendency was to think in terms of installing the five preamps in the control room, and possibly having them equipped with variable gain controls to that the recording engineer could adjust for correct line output level. I didn't like this because gain pots tend to get noisy, and most important of all, it is difficult to maintain the maximum dynamic range in a preamp which must accommodate a wide range of gain. I liked the idea of a fixed gain preamp that was designed for maximum performance at that gain.

The thought occurred to me that it would be hip to make the setting of the preamp output level the responsibility of the musician. If the preamp gain was sufficient to allow a moderate setting loss on the volume control on the musical instrument, then it would be ideal to simply have the musician set this instrument volume control to provide the correct line level at the preamp output. All that was needed was a VU meter in the studio so that the musician would know when the level was correct. The preamp was designed with fixed gain.

The second step was for the musician to adjust the mixer pot on the little five-channel monitor mixer so that his volume level was comfortable over the Altec 605-A speaker.

We mounted five beautiful 3.5 inch rectangular Triplett VU meters, five rotary monitor mixer pots, and five quarter inch input jacks for the guitar cables, on a seven inch high rack panel, and built the five vacuum-tube preamps on a Bud aluminum chassis mounted directly behind the panel.

The preamps were designed to provide first class professional performance specifications, in accordance with the discussion above. In practice, the recording engineer could forget all about the guitars (except, of course, for mixing them.) He automatically had a perfect line level to patch into his console, because the musician had adjusted the level right at his guitar, using his VU meter. The musicians loved the sound of that McIntosh/Altec combination, and could set the speaker volume to suit their requirements very easily. The entire system was a reliable as the tide, and worked beautifully. Everybody loved it.

I feel that it worked out very well to assign the responsibility for the level control to the musician. As far as I know, we never had any problems with improper levels. I got the feeling that it made the musician feel good to be responsible for this function.

Considering the horrors that could happen when a musician turned down his instrument volume control, while at the same time the recording engineer was fooling around jacking up the gain on a variable gain preamp: It seems to me that this design approach was a minor "stroke of genius." (If you don't mind me saying so.)

If only everything I did at Motown had made as much sense as this did!

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.122.53 - 63.210.122.53) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 06:42 am:

Dear Carl,

It sounds like you have paid a lot more dues that I have, when it comes to videotape operations. I have only been working as an operator for the last five years. I really enjoy it after doing nothing in that area (operations) for my entire career. I never mixed anything at Motown, and I was always involved in the equipment end exclusively until things got tight while I was working at Hanna-Barbera ("The Flintstones"). They needed to cut overhead, so I elected to spend part of my day making dubs, and the other part of my day taking care of equipment problems.

I never had any experience with any video equipment until I got to Hanna-Barbera. I did get a lot of experience in film equipment at various jobs in the Hollywood motion picture industry. When I first started in operations, making dubs, the most fancy videocassette recorder we had was a SONY U-MATIC (3/4 inch tape) BVU-850. We also had a SONY D-2 composite digital playback machine (3/4 inch tape.) After a while, we added a SONY playback machine that could play both DIGITAL BETACAM and BETACAM SP tapes. Of course, we had several monster AMPEX one inch reel to reel recorders. Boy, are these a pain in the ass to thread up after you become accustomed to the little cassettes used with SP or DIGIBETA. (For you non-video folks out there: These are like the old home SONY BETAMAX cassettes, as far as the physical cassette is concerned.)

Turner Broadcasting owned Hanna-Barbera, and when they sold out to Time-Warner (Warner Bros. Animation,) the two cartoon studios were merged. This resulted in a bunch of neat new machines to use including a couple of SONY BETACAM SP recorders, and a $65,000. AMPEX DCT digital component video recorder (3/4 inch tape.) This hog is built like a Sherman tank. Motors that seem like they have enough power to run a washing machine YANK the cassette right out of your hand!

Lately: we inherited a bunch more SP recorders, and we purchased a couple of full-blown DIGIBETA recorders. We also have a high definition on-line video editing bay that I am about to set up (install and interconnect). It includes a PANASONIC high definition recorder (1/2 inch tape) that cost about $100,000.

From what you report, I sure am glad that I didn't get involved until things had evolved to the present high state of refinement. I have vast respect and admiration for the performance and reliability of BETACAM SP machines and tape today. It hardly seems like DIGIBETA is worth the extra cost. BETACAM SP soars above U-MATIC so far that it makes it look like VHS!

A cartoon only runs seven minutes. No wonder we have not worn out heads compared to your eighteen hours a day!

I got a big laugh out of the confidence heads causing the abortion of a pass, only to find that the confidence heads were clogged and not the record heads.

We recently bought a hard disc video recorder. We use it in the voice-recording studio to provide instant access playback from any point, when doing ADR (For you non-video/film folks out there: this stands for Automated Dialogue Replacement). It is made by an outfit called DOREMI LABS (Model V-1), and it does a beautiful job.

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By soulboy (213.105.229.179 - 213.105.229.179) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 11:57 am:

Mike, great work you did for all of us , all them many years ago! What i'd like to know is why do Motown records sound Better as sound technology improves. The PC sound card i have play's these tracks better than any 60/70's stereo hi/fi system ever did.,as Jamerson's classic bass lines can be heard like never Before.
Was there something you built in to these tracks that anticipated the changes in sound technology??
I'd like to say that the current CD issues/re-issues when played on a good system sound much better than scratchy old 45's. and i really don't mind offending the purists on this issue.

By john lester (213.1.136.146 - 213.1.136.146) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 01:55 pm:

Soulboy


Ouch!!!!

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 01:59 pm:

I think it's quite obvious what was "built in to" those classic tracks at Motown.... quality!

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

Ritchie - agreed!! All your comments earlier, I mean.

Mike, I am speechless. I adore my soul and Motown stuff and all things connected with it (and the occasional classical piece: Saint Saens/Dance Macabre, The Wasps, which I think was Vaughn Williams). I need to read your posts a few times for it all to sink in. The guitar pre-amps are right up my street as I know nothing about this type of thing and need to learn. I think the whole technical thing in Detroit is of immense interest to many of us, so I prey you keep telling us more. For me, I work in a reasonably technical area, but I am not an engineer, so that is certainly a sign of the times. I need to get my act together and consider your wonderful presence here, on the forum.

I get very confused with PPM�s and VU meters, when I line up anything! The Germans show �9 db�s tone on the PPM, some stations show +8 db�s on their tone, being peak programme and others are 0 level, 4 on the PPM on their tone. Plus the language problems to try and establish that as well. Did Studio �A�, have PPM�s at any stage, or just VU? This may have been covered before and just proves how complicated I find it. I know, for example, our Betacam SP�s are calibrated to 0 vu = 4 on the PPM, whilst other London facility houses use something else. Music studios I know little about.

As for U Matic tape formats, in this country we have Low Band and High Band varieties. High Band machines allowing insert edits and the like. If I am not mistaken they have been used to make music masters in the past. We received one at work in error and could not find any pictures on it! Are you familiar with the term �colour under�, when it comes to U Matics?

I am so glad you mentioned the Ampex machines. We call them �Big Ears� over here, because they took the bigger spools. I am happy lacing them up, no probs. Have you ever worked on the old Marconi ones? They laced up backwards, sort of tape in right hand pulled up and over the top of the heads rather than the Ampex/Sony way! Even worse if you got a German �B� format and laced it on a �C� format machine! Would it be the engineers at Motown who laced up at the studio and gave the go-ahead everything was fine? How often would it go wrong? We once had an op who laced a 1� machine the wrong way around. It took the spool off and it rolled right down the room unlacing as it went along. Quite amusing.

I am pleased you mentioned Betamax as well. Sp tapes can be used with this format. I believe a 5m SP in a Betamax machine lasts for about 30mins, but is not good for the heads I am led to believe.

The Panasonic on line recorder sounds great. My wife and I have been editing on an Avid, just recently, even though by trade we are not editors.

Sp and DigiBetacam differences � I know what a dub of a dub of a dub looks like on an SP, whether it is a composite/YRB/CTDM, it looks awful. I know just whacking in an SP tape and hitting play can get you out of trouble on the air and the drop out comps and TBC�s are great, but it took away the professionalism of lining up broadcast tapes correctly, relative to the colour bars. Just my opinion. We did tests about 4 years ago, digi to digi and found degradation after 300 passes, which is fantastic! I think what SP did was make it easier for sports broadcasters to do quick action replays with equipment that controlled the servos externally, making smooth transitions and freezes and indeed going backwards for that� did the ball hit the net� scenario. I was proud to work on the very first Ashvale slo-mo controllers under test in the early nineties with Betacam SP on my stations Cricket coverage. I did �main� replay and it was hard to be on air for almost 8 hours playing back the main angle and making sure you had the wicket and all the aftermath when the director wanted an instant replay and the trimmings. You would never have to touch your machine once in remote. Now you know where the group �Run DMC� got their name. Before slo-mo controllers, the Betacam SP machine ops would use the �Direct Motion Control� facility. Once cued, the director would say: Run DMC!

Mike � I must stop now otherwise I might crash the server and bore a few people off the site � ha ha!

Cheers

Carl

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 04:01 pm:

Mike

I'll just add one small comment. I cut my engineering teeth on an Ampex MM1100 - 8-track, then the studio upgraded to 16-track. This was in the early seventies, which just goes to show how advanced you guys were!

By M.McLeanTech (209.245.66.40 - 209.245.66.40) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 04:50 pm:

Dear Graham,

Thank you for your kindness and encouragement. This is a lot of fun.

Regarding the history of my interest in classical music, I picked it up from my father, who picked it up from his mother, who was the daughter of John Patton: the mayor of Detroit in 1858. During world war one, my father was in the army, and was stationed at a camp near New York City. His passion for classical music was so intense that he spent almost all of his free time running into the city to attend concerts at Carnegie Hall. This was going on at about the time my late wife Helen was born: 1915. I have a stack of Carnegie Hall concert programs about eight inches thick that he collected. What a kick it is to look through them. The world has changed a whole lot since those days!

During the 1920's, my father was quite a musical and artistic dilettante. In Detroit, Woodward Avenue intersects with Kirby Street. This intersection has four corners: On the southwest corner is the Detroit Main Library. On the southeast corner is the Detroit Institute of Arts. On the northwest corner is the Detroit Historical Museum, and on the northeast corner is a large apartment building that was originally called the Wardell Apartments. Later, the building came to be known as the Hotel Park Shelton. This was what it was called when I was a kid, around 1950. However, they neglected to change the large letters over the entrance to the attached parking garage: "WARDELL GARAGE."

At any rate, my father lived in a penthouse apartment at the Wardell, which was, at the time, the Detroit equivalent of living at the Carlyle Hotel in Manhattan: A very classy address. He parked his Wills St. Claire single overhead cam V-8 roadster in the Wardell garage. He packed his apartment with oriental rugs, oil paintings, Tiffany lamps, and other such art objects. He also had a "top of the line" Orthophonic Victrola which featured the first automatic record changer offered. He was Vice President of the Hurd Lock Company, and spent his money on artistic pursuits. He used to like to invite musicians from the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, which he had befriended, to cocktail parties at his apartment and talk about classical music.

When I was a kid, the living room of our home near Greenfield and Schoolcraft in Northwest Detroit was packed with all those rugs and art objects. The Orthophonic Victrola sat out in the garage. Dad was 52 when I was born. On a Sunday, when he wanted to relax and enjoy his day, he would put on a full dress suit with a white shirt and tie, a vest, and garters to hold up his socks. Then he would go into the living room, light up a cigar, and sit playing 78 RPM records of classical music. To him, this was just as much fun as it was for Archie Bunker to enjoy a ball game on TV with a six-pack of beer.

My father was a master low-pressure salesman. He could make friends with anyone. He had a large collection of odd ball music lover types who loved to come over for music listening parties at our house. He went to the record shop several times a week, and constantly purchased classical music recordings. Another quality that he had was that he always practiced the very highest standards of care when handling phonograph records. I have records that he purchased as far back as 1920, and they all are in pristine condition.

My father never tried to shove music appreciation down my throat. His attitude was that he liked it, and I had better not damage any records or there would be Hell to pay! As a result, I developed a liking for fine music in my own way.

I am sorry, but I have never heard of Henryk Gorecki, or his Symphony of Sorrowful Songs, Op.39. During what period did he live? There are many blind spots in my musical education. I am self-taught, and with an idiot like that in control of the curriculum, it's a wonder that I know anything!

Robert Bateman visited me here in Los Angeles about two years ago, and we spent about ten hours in conversation. We also went to a fireworks concert at the Hollywood Bowl. I have always admired his music, and he is a very colorful character. We discussed most of the points that you have mentioned in your present letter. Here are some thoughts:

The first Motown "technical engineer" was Ron Malo. He was working with Robert, who was, at that time, the star of the show (except for Berry Gordy Jr. himself) as far as being the "lead recording engineer/producer" was concerned. Ron Malo got a higher paying offer from Chess Records in Chicago, and when Berry would not match it he went to Chess. About five years ago, at Hanna Barbera, Ron Malo's son, who is a production soundman in the Hollywood Motion Picture industry, happened to be visiting, and I was introduced to him. He told me that his father had passed away.

Berry then hired Peter F. Walsh, who worked at radio station WJLB in downtown Detroit. WJLB used to have Frantic Ernie Durham and Senator Bristo Briant in the late 50's. They used to advertise Cadillac Club Nature Boy wine, and Sulfur Eight hair pomade. Peter came by part time and tried to make some progress in upgrading the equipment. At that time, Peter was newly married to a lady with children, and he had family responsibilities. Motown could not afford to pay him the kind of money he needed. Further, Pete was a "well dressed man" who drove a new 59 Ford Thunderbird, which was not a cheap car at the time.

In order to get Pete some help, Berry hired me. I was living with my parents, and the money that he offered was more then adequate for my needs. I just wanted to build recording equipment. For about six months Pete and I worked together, with me as his assistant. Then Berry promoted me to the position of Engineering Department Head. Pete was not pleased by this, and left. Pete and I had a lot of fun working together, and I always felt bad about what happened.

When I first started at Motown, I didn't know very much about the real world of sound recording. I was good at building amplifiers, but my experience with the problems of a studio and control room was zip! I had a lot of hair brained ideas about speakers that were based on my experience building Hi-Fi sets with my Dad at home. Some of the things that I wanted to do to upgrade the control room were not necessarily an improvement and Robert Bateman understood and resented this.

Robert and I never had any heated discussions. I did hear that such discussions (with me as the subject) had gone on between Robert and Berry. I felt bad about this at the time because I admired Robert so much for his personal style and artistry. Berry defended me sort of in the way a father would when an older son (Robert) resented the arrival of his new baby brother (me). Robert is a proud man, with good reason. At the time, I felt that he had every reason in the world to expect to be treated like the elite. There was only one elite at Motown, and that was Berry Gordy Jr. Robert was not the first person to have ego interfere with his/her relationship to Motown, and he was certainly not the last.

During his visit, Robert told me about the cigar box mixer. By the time arrived, it was gone. I never saw, or heard of, it until his visit. When I arrived, they were using a 1940 vintage Western Electric console that was originally intended for use at an AM-FM radio station. It had two mixing buses. The vacuum tubes were so old that they didn't even have octal bases. But Oooooooh Boy! Did it have a beautiful pair of 4.5 inch VU meters made by the Weston Electrical Instrument Corporation, of Newark, New Jersey!

Thanks to a company in England, SIFAM, you can still buy a really good VU meter today. Their top of the line meters are really superb. Selco Products Company sells these meters in the U.S.A.

Best wishes,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.112.168 - 63.210.112.168) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 07:41 pm:

Dear Eli,

Thank you for you inquiry regarding "placebo" gadgets such as your "Electronic Scrotum."

Motown was organized into two separate departments: "The Recording Engineers," and the "Technical Engineering Department." I assume that Berry Gordy Jr. felt that this was proper because of the difference in mental orientation between a musical artist and a "nuts and bolts" person. An analogy that might help to visualize this difference would be to imagine a group of men consisting of one master craftsman from each department at the Steinway Piano Company. There would be a master of wood fabrication, a master of metal casting, a master of finishing, a master of action design (the "action" is the assembly of keys and hammers that slides into the piano,) a master of string fabrication, and so forth. In addition, there would be Ralph Terrana to keep the pianos in tune.

Now, standing next to this group, imagine a second group consisting of Erroll Garner, Oscar Peterson, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, George Shearing, and Thelonious Monk. In addition would be Vladimir Ashkenazy, so Ralph and I would feel more at home.

While I would imagine that these men would all have great respect for each other, I would also imagine that there would be a vast difference in outlook between the two groups.

There was a natural tension between the two departments at Motown: I thought that the recording engineers should know more about Ohms, Volts, Amps, and Watts, and the recording engineers thought I should know more about soul.

Because of this tension, there was not much room for such levity as the construction of an "Electronic Scrotum." Further: The atmosphere at Motown was quite serious. Berry Gordy Jr. made it clear that Motown was in business to make money by getting hits, so that Motown could grow, and hits came from serious hard work directed toward making a quality product.

However: Within our department, we indulged in some crazy projects. One was called the "Tilt Machine." We never finished it, but we spent a couple of days drawing up plans for its construction.

I was very frustrated by the chronic problem of excessive loudness levels when monitoring. It was hard on the speakers, and I felt that it could damage human hearing. No matter how much I complained to the recording engineers, there was never any improvement.

A pin ball machine is subject to excessive enthusiasm on the part of the player. If the machine is shaken too violently, a sensor switch shuts down the game and a "TILT!" sign lights up. The tilt machine was based on this concept. If they played the monitor too loud, a series of penalties would result.

The funny part is that as we developed the design, we got totally carried away with the design of the penalties. As I remember, we actually had a schematic diagram drawn up for stage four, which was a solenoid operated aerosol can of shaving cream that would automatically shower the recording engineer with "whipped cream" that would be easy to clean up.

I often wonder what would have happened to my career if we had put the Tilt Machine into service and Berry Gordy Jr. had pushed it to level four while laboring away to get a perfect mix.

Regarding the components used to make the board in studio A: This was a very simple system. I don't know if you have seen pictures of the console. It consisted of an Altec Lansing type 1567-A mixer for track one (lead vocal), a mono mixing console that we built ourselves for track two (band) and also used for mix down, and an Ampex type MX-10 mixer for track three (bass and drums).

The homebrew mono mixing console had three echo send buses. The mixer input positions used UTC (United Transformer Co., 150 Varick Street, New York City) type A-10 repeat coils (600/600 Ohms) at the input, followed by Danner (Gotham) type KW600 linear motion ladder mixers feeding a passive 600 Ohm mixing network. The echo sends were cheap Centralab rotary pots, with a high impedance mix bus. The line output amplifiers were home brew vacuum tube units of my own design. Sometimes I would rip off a circuit from a piece of commercial equipment, and sometimes I would design an amplifier myself. There was nothing magic about these amplifiers. Would you expect magic from a 22 year old designer who never got past the 9th grade in high school?

Years later, after learning a whole lot more about electronics, I came up with some designs that might have been just a little bit elegant, but even in that case, I would not credit such circuit design with any supernatural contribution to the "Motown Sound."

Thank you for your interesting questions.

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.121.191 - 63.210.121.191) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 09:41 pm:

Dear Ralph,

Regarding hairless nodding in the hall: While I can remember that scene with Floyd, I can't remember that scene with you at all. I guess I became accustomed to remembering you in connection with subjects on a very high level, like Ashkenazy. I also can not remember anything about that double date with Carol and you except sitting at the table at a restaurant. The dance hall part of your story seems to have been bulk erased from my mind.

Regarding my reputation with the good people in this forum: When I first started out, I guess I allowed my ego to hope that I could come across like a Ray M. Dolby. By the time I get settled down, it will be more like John Balushi. I guess I should try to be myself and then I will come on like a blend of Edward R. Murrow (he hired Walter Cronkite at CBS), Don Herbert (remember "Mr. Wizard"?), Lewis Rukeyser ("Wall Street Week"), and Jerry Lewis ("The Nutty Professor").

Regarding that fancy sound system that I wanted to set up in my basement: I wanted to build an eight track, half inch tape recorder and equip it will Dolby "A" noise reduction on all channels. Then I would buy eight Neumann KM-84 microphones with cables, Etc. and go out and record symphony concerts. For playback in the basement, I was going to use five Acoustic Research AR-3a speaker systems in the front, and three AR-5 speakers in the rear.

I never found out that the musicians union would never have let me make the recordings, because I could not find an insurance company that would cover the liability that would result from one of my microphone stands falling over and hitting members of the audience on the head. I did get some of the parts collected for the recorder. I still have a set of three magnetic heads that I picked up for this project.

I used to get carried away with an idea, and not think through all aspects of the situation. Remember: When you place a firecracker in your mouth and light it with a match, it is more important to pay attention to the firecracker then to being careful about making sure that the match has been extinguished safely. This is the real "hot set-up!"

I feel that Mrs. Edwards made, by far, the greatest individual contribution to Berry Gordy JR's success of all his brothers and sisters. She was very effective, in the early days, at seeing to it that the legal aspects of the company were on solid ground.

I live in Burbank, California: The land of the Tonight Show with Jay Leno.

I just can't remember a thing about that dance floor.

Being over people's head is the price we pay for being up in the air. There is no need to get down in the dumps and under the weather. That's what the 60's and 70's were all about: Being high minded. I know that I was part of that time, because I can't remember it.

Thank you for your kind words about Helen. Now there was a woman that was mentally on my level 100%!

Best wishes,

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 10:11 pm:

Mike,
You ARE all those people,but because I know you quite well ( or at least better than most ) I must admit I like the Nutty Professor comparrison. If it were possible ( not! ) to add up the sums of all your interesting facets to create the WHOLE Mike McLane ( the ultimate Hot Set-Up ) I think what would shine through the brightest would be your humor. How many hours did you and I sit in your office talking about so many different things totally unrelated to recording studios? And I can't begin to count the number of times you made my day Mike.

It's funny...you don't remember the dance floor....I don't have a clue about the restaurant. You mean we went out to eat also???

Regarding your super sound system. I wish I could have taped what you told me , and how you told me, your plan for this that night I was at your house. What a great story with such a classic Mike McLane finish.

I remember that night you were telling me how enthralled you were with the new Rolling Stone album and how you had stayed up all the previous night playing it over and over, reveling in the purity and honesty of it's sound.

Mrs Edwards is a true Detroiter and I know she did all she could possibly do to keep Motown from leaving the city.

Mike, I can't tell you how good it is to have you here.This place has blown my mind pretty good a couple of times. but I think it just pinned the meter this time.

By gags (195.92.194.18 - 195.92.194.18) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 12:22 am:

Dear Mike, You are just the person I would love to chat to regarding this problem I have with reproducing the motown sound. I am currently re-producing Kim Westons 'Helpless' for a college assignment and I was wondering if you would be able to let me know of some of the the tech spec on the sessions or equivelant sessions. I am looking for the kinds of mics used, some of the techniques that may have been used and any hints or tips you may have.


best regards

gags


a big Hi from Scotland.

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.241.142 - 63.208.241.142) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 02:41 am:

Regarding the training of hearing:

In the early days at Motown, I had a big stereo speaker system at home (a pair of Bozak B-310A systems) that I thought were really great. One day, I had an opportunity to record a big jazz band in connection with my duties: Choker Campbell and his band. A very special trumpet player was part of this occasion. Sadly, I can't think of his name, even tho Hah! It came to me: Marcus Belgrave!

I used a Neumann SM-2 (nickel membrane) "MS" stereo condenser microphone and an Ampex 351-2 two track 1/4 inch tape recorder (This was the now "sitting around" machine that was the "multitrack" that Robert Bateman was using to do his good work when I arrived at Motown.) The sound of that band was just fantastic, and I had a pair of Beyer DT-48 headphones for monitoring purposes. It was a remote recording made at the Graystone Ballroom, on Woodward Ave. in Detroit, which Motown had just purchased: a huge dance hall.

I did some experimenting whereby I placed my head directly above the microphone and alternately listened to the direct sound of the band, and then, by putting on the headphones, to the recorded sound. Except for the change in spatial perspective (the sound was inside my head instead of in front of me) associated with the headphones, the basic quality, and timbre of the sound was virtually identical. I remember being very pleased by the precision of this successful direct comparison.

I could hardly wait to get home and play the tape on our big Bozak (each speaker was driven by a vacuum tube McIntosh MI-200AB 200 Watt industrial amplifier) stereo system. This was really going to be the last word, because our system was just fantastic (or so I thought at the time.) As long as I live, I will never forget how utterly disappointed I was when I played the tape. The sound was a ghastly caricature of what I had heard earlier that day in the dance hall. The bass was boomy. The lower mid-range sounded honky (no pun intended,) like a rain barrel. The mid-range had a coloration that resembled that sound produced when you tap a piece of cardboard with the tips of your fingers. The high end had a horrible coloration that was like the sound of fingernails scratching the surface of a Ping-Pong ball, along with just a touch of rattling tin foil. I almost broke into tears: I was so horrified.

In desperation, I put on the Beyer headphones, and at once I heard again the magnificence of the original, live sound. Right then and there, I learned, with the impact of a lightning bolt, how easy it is for an amateur audiophile to become totally deluded about sound. Lack of objectivity, and delusion, are rampant in the audiophile field. Most professionals eventually learn the hard way, like I did, that this possibility of self-delusion exists, and learn to use scientific techniques to avoid it. Up until that horrible moment, I really believed, from the bottom of my heart, that my Dad and I had a high quality sound system. In an instant, I recognized that our system was actually of quite poor quality. Eventually, I found a speaker system (Acoustic Research AR-3) that would AB compare to the headphones, using that jazz band tape, quite favorably. This entire experience was the biggest single educational step forward, audio wise, that I ever have taken in my life (except for learning the work Ma-Ma!)

It also almost resulted in the railroad putting in a siding of track to the back door of Hitsville, so that they could load and unload the burned out and rebuilt mid-range drivers for the AR-3, after I had the temerity to install these speakers as our control room monitor speaker system.

When I arrived at Hitsville, they were using the Altec 605-A for monitoring. This was (I now understand) a good compromise between transparent sound and rugged high sound level capacity. Eventually, we returned to this same speaker, in a later, more refined, version the 604-E.

Soon after being hired, my first "stroke of genius" was to decide that the Altec speakers did not sound "natural." After all, they didn't sound like my "perfect" system at home. There could be no doubt that they sucked, and that they had to go.

So I installed a bunch of Bozaks. Robert Bateman had a cow! I don't blame him one bit! He was right. This change was not an improvement, and he had to learn how to compensate for the coloration of the monitor all over again.

The mutual lust to make hits was so strong at Motown that this little rock in the road (readjustment to the Bozaks) was accommodated in about the same way as would a plague of locusts deal with a RAID bug bomb, with tape holding the valve open, placed in the center of the swarm. We used the Bozaks until I discovered the horrible lesson above.

Now that I knew that the AR-3 was the "answer to everything," I had to get rid of those horrible Bozaks. Berry went along with my "thinking."

Since I had failed to follow through with the "Tilt Machine" (in that case, we could have had the railroad deliver shaving cream,) the AR speakers were at the mercy of the incessant self indulgence of the recording engineers, with their tendency to turn up the volume to the point of absurdity.

Every time I tried to do something right, it blew up in my face! We now had the most natural and transparent burned out monitors on the planet!

Where I missed the boat was that I only considered the concept that I was a genius (Berry said so,) and I felt that I had to prove it to keep my job. I should have considered the possibility that other men had responsibly considered these problems long ago, and that the results of these deliberations should be studied first, before reinventing the wheel. I almost burned out and joined the church, until they passed the plate.

Imagine this scene: Berry Gordy Jr. is trying to evaluate (Ralph Seltzer's favorite word) the presentation by Robert Bateman to the effect that Mike McLean is installing silly stuff. Robert has an ego: He has done a lot of good work, like "Please Mr. Postman," and he expects some fair treatment. Mike is working for peanuts, happily, as long as he can experiment in the basement of the Hitsville building, with his boys, as he tries to discover the process of acquiring an education in audio engineering, the hard way.

You fill in the rest. Go figure.

Mike McLean

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 04:43 am:

Mike,
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I'll find the exact details of Syphony of Sorrowful Songs for you, but off the top of my head think it was written in the 1950s. I'm sure that you'd appreciate its beauty.
Robert Bateman said you were the reason for him finally quitting Motown; although he acknowledged the sound quality you achieved was an improvement. That's hindsight for you.
Best wishes, Graham

By M.McLeanTech (65.59.25.34 - 65.59.25.34) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:05 pm:

Dear Eli,

Thank you for your kind words about my recollection ability. You might not be so impressed if you were asking me questions about the music. The reason I remember these technical things is that I was very interested in them at the time. It also helps me a lot to be the one who picks out the recollections.

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (65.59.25.34 - 65.59.25.34) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:08 pm:

Dear Phillysoulman,

Before you wish for me back at Sigma, you should consider how your clients would have liked the "Tilt Machine."

Thank you for your kindness.

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (65.59.25.34 - 65.59.25.34) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:10 pm:

Dear Ritchie,

Thank you for your kind words. Regarding the love for technical minutiae and vital details here are some thoughts. (I'm so full of gas that you could get two paragraphs out of me just by blowing your nose.)

I have a close friend named George who is simply over the top about the American culture during the 1920's. A film collector, he has a huge collection of old silent films. He is nuts about the great actor and master of makeup, Lon Chaney Sr. He has two Orthophonic Victrolas and an Edison Diamond Disc phonograph. He has a large collection of lateral cut 78 RPM records, and vertical cut Diamond discs, most of which were sold in the 20's.

George is obsessed with nostalgia ("living in the past.") Many times I have sat with him shooting the bull (he is a great conversationalist, with an ironic sense of humor) and seen the intense longing that he has for the 20's. Sometimes, perhaps in part to humor him, we talk about what fun it would be to have a time machine and step into the world of 1922. This guy eats up this stuff with a great big spoon!

Sometimes, I would point out to George that there a lot of folks in this world that feel about Motown just the same way he does about the 20's, and that puts me in the position, in relation to Motown, of actually having been there. I don't need a time machine, as far as Motown is concerned. It's still real for me.

I have come to recognize that there is a vast difference between the impression that is in the mind of someone who was actually at a legendary scene, and the impression that is built up, through fantasy and imagination, in the mind of a avid nostalgia buff.

Motown was a great experience for me, but I tend to remember enough negative things (such as problems that would come up and the high pressure to get them solved) for the overall memory to be just more life experience, like growing up and going to school. The technical minutiae are fun to talk about, and it certainly pleases my "golden ham" side to be able to entertain you folks. However, I just don't have that intense longing, combined with the feeling that having no "time machine" is tragic, that the heavy weight nostalgia buff can sometimes harbor.

Thank you for your condolences. There is no doubt that a lack of a "time machine," so I could go back and meet Helen before she met her first husband (three years before I was born) and take her out on a date, is tragic in every sense! She would probably not have given me the time of day, at that time. Think of how bored she would be listening to me babble about Digital Betacam.

I appreciate your reassurance that "�. any humorous anecdotes we hear do not lessen our admiration, but simply add to your mystique." I have been throwing more coal into the humor furnace lately. We shall see if your statement holds up in practice.

Best wishes,

Mike McLean

By cl (204.38.4.42 - 204.38.4.42) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:44 pm:

Mr. McLean, I am an infrequent contributor to this board. I have met David here in Michigan.

Recently I participated in an all analog recording. Our intent was to make a record..............vinyl!!; and we did!!

I am the drummer, so my knowledge of the technical end is piecemeal at best.

We did use an RCA 44 and some old Neuman mic's. It was recorded live in studio; and it was mastered by Stan Ricker.

If you are interested I will send you a copy.The hope is of course to sell it; but also to have participated in a very high quality sonic endeavor.

The music is swing from the 1930's so I do appreciate the indulgence of the soulful forumers in letting me communicate this info to you.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:50 pm:

Mike

I think your comments on the subject of nostalgia are extremely apt - often it's a rose-tinted view of a time which had its pitfalls as well as its peaks. I would suggest that our particular fascination for the "golden years" stems not from any wistful longing to return, but from a burning desire to discover the background stories and technical details which add to our understanding, and enjoyment of the music. I suppose it is no different to reading a biography of Beethoven to better understand the man who created the nine symphonies... except that such an endeavour is academically accepted, whereas researching into Motown records may be viewed by some as a low-brow pursuit!

I personally have no longing to return to 1960s Detroit, as it's an era of which I have no experience - so I can't go "back" to somewhere I never went. Don't worry - we may go dewey-eyed over the music, but we all equally accept that you guys were simply doing your job. The fact that magic was created in the process is a bonus, and a tribute to all the talent involved. Incidentally, my only use for a time machine would be to go "back" and stock up on the records which are now unobtainable... or perhaps catch some shows at the Twenty Grand.

As for humour (as we spell it over here) - the only people I feel sorry for are those without it. In my opinion, it's the little moments of insanity that help to keep us all sane.

(Lon Chaney Sr...? A gifted actor, but what a shame his son was such a ham!)

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:53 pm:

Please direct new messages to the Mike Mclean 2 thread. Thanks.
Ralph

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 07:54 pm:

***THIS THREAD NOW CLOSED****